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Author Topic: Addressing and amending certain "truths" from the steroid section  (Read 4431 times)
SmoofCat
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« on: April 12, 2012, 10:24:59 PM »

Addressing and amending certain "truths" from the steroid section

I. Testosterone being a "bad" steroid
            A. Testosterone is not a "bad" steroid. It has way more aesthetically displeasing effects than any drug such as tren or primo, but I want to make two points right away.
                     1. Testosterone is required to GROW, and I mean GROW. Yes, you can grow off of a cycle of low or no test (0-350 mg weekly), with a lot of other androgens such as tren and primo, but you inevitably grow better, as in gain overall mass in a more effective way, with a descent dose of testosterone. No, testosterone is not aesthetically pleasing, especially long esther. But stacked with the right hormones, and with the right ancillaries, the look testosterone in doses even as high as 1.5 grams (from personal experience) can still make you look incredible. I will give an example high test cycle that will leave you looking incredible WHILE you grow at the bottom.
                     2. There are real reasons bodybuilders take testosterone.
                                       a. When stacked with the right hormones, it allows you to grow mass significantly faster and more efficient than if you were using low-no test with your stack.
                                       b. Libido. Try staying on a no test or low test stack that includes a descent/high dose of any 19-nor for more than a few months. Try it. I have. You simply do not have a libido after a few months. There is a reason bodybuilders drop the test and cycle it; once test is dropped, your physique does appear more aesthetic, especially if you introduce anadrol.
                                       c. Mood. Try staying on a no test or low test stack that includes a descent/high dose of any 19-nor for more than a few months. Seriously, try it! Your mood crashes. I have done it. It sucks. This leads me to my next point.
                                       d. Test makes you feel good. Your mood and general state of well being increases. It is unique in that no other steroid makes you feel as healthy as test does. Tren can make one confident. Deca has its unique effects on mood, including that unique feeling that you are the biggest persons in the building and all of the pleasure that goes along with (unfortunately most long esther nandrolone gains are water in my history). But testosterone makes you feel healthy. Can you say tren makes you feel healthy? No, it does not.
                                       e. Sample high testosterone stack, which will leave you looking aesthetically incredible throughout the entire cycle.
                                                          (1) 1225 mg sustanon (175 mg daily, .5 cc from top chef)
                                                          (2) 350 mg NPP (50 mg daily)
                                                          (3) 350 mg Tren Ace (50 mg daily)
                                                          (4) 700 mg Primo E weekly (50 mg daily)
                                                          (5) 100 mg Anavar daily
                                                          (6) 40 mg Proviron daily
                                                          (7) 10 iu generic hgh daily
                                                          (8 ) 12.5 mcg t3 daily
                                                          (9) .25 mg EOD anastrozole
                                                                          (a) item 9 above is the perfect prelude to my next concern which is...

2. A.I.s being "bad".
                   A. I have never understood why A.I.s are talked so badly about on get big. Much like testosterone, A.I.s can wreck your physique and libido if used at the wrong dosage. But a small dose of a drug like anastrazole (i.e. .25 mg EOD) can do wonders. And there are many advantages to A.I.s, and inherent issues of believing A.I.s are "bad" in such black and white terms, which I would like to discuss. I will discuss the advantages of A.I.s first, and then discuss the inherent negative consequences in believing they are "bad" in black and white terms below.
                                    1. Advantages to A.I.s
                                                  a. Studies show that low doses of A.I.s do nothing to stop growth, thereby disproving the notion that A.I.s at extremely low doses can make you flat.
                                                               (1) I am not sitting here saying that using A.I.s at high doses is a good idea. Anastrazole at a high dose will make you flat. It will certainly be difficult to grow on a very high dose. But if you use an A.I. at a low dose (.25 mg EOD), you most certainly will reap nothing but benefits.
                                                  b. A low dose of anastrazole or tamoxifen citrate (I don't mix the two) has allowed me to grow, while never growing any form of gyno. Testosterone is the only drug which leads to gyno symptoms for myself personally. No 19-nor does it to me, even at insane doses like 1400 mg weekly of tren ace. But a low dose such as .25 mg EoD of anastrozole or 5-10 mg EOD of tamoxifen only keeps gyno away from me even when the test is high. So I can grow efficiently without growing any tits- a good thing (; .
                                 2.   The inherent negative consequences of stating A.I.s are "bad", and the issues I want to address in regards to this line of thinking.
                                                  a. Gyno is only discussed on get big steroid board as an after. We talk about gyno surgery, and we state how bad A.I.s are. A low dose of an A.I. prevents gyno from ever forming. We never talk about how to block gyno on get big steroid section, we only talk about how to deal with it once it forms. And there is a problem with the answer "masteron".
                                                  b. Masteron can not   be stayed on year round. I never run any A.I. while on masteron, because it works incredibly well for sculpting your physique to a leanness and tightness that it has never been, and for its ability to block gyno. Masteron is one of my favorite oils. I have made threads specifically talking about how much I love masteron. But there is a real reason you can not run masteron year round!
                                                               (1) masteron is hard on your prostate. And don't fuck with your prostate guys. Remember, we take steroids because they make us healthier (I truly believe this, and it is a premise that GH15 often discusses and I do not agree with everything that anyone says, on this board and in the outside world, from one end of the world to the other. There is not one person who I can say I agree with 100% of what they say. And that includes gh15. He is a very smart individual who has given me some advice in the past years that honestly has taken me to places where I otherwise would never be in bodybuilding. And I am forever grateful to him for that. And one point gh15 has made, which I agree with from the bottom of my heart, is that steroids make you immune to sickness like the common cold, and they essentially make you somewhat of a "super human". I do not agree that they make you immune to aids, as it has been brought up, or that they make you a "super human", but they sure as hell make you stronger. I have not gotten a cold once in years because of hormones. Before hormones, I used to get sick all the time. You are probably asking what I am getting at here, and I assure you that I am not on a tangent. My point is that we should not run steroids that are unhealthy to run long term for long periods of time, because it is counterintuitive to the main premise behind taking steroids, to become a stronger and essentially more healthy individual. So running masteron year round is a serious danger to your prostate, and again, you don't want to fuck with your prostate. It is the little part of your body that can really fuck you up one day. So be good to it. But what do we do when we are not on masteron for gyno prevention? And why is this never discussed on this board?
                                                                           (a) When not on masteron, you can run a low dose of an A.I. such as anastrazole at .25-.5 mg EOD with no negative consequences to your growth, as studies prove.





Please feel free to add on to my list. I want this forum to grow, so we can all communicate with one another about the "truths" on get big which we believe need amendments or at the very least discussion

thanks for reading. it felt good to get this off my chest.

-smoof








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Sector
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2012, 10:36:14 PM »

Awesome post SmoofCat
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ChristopherA
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2012, 10:41:33 PM »

Fuck man you got me rethinking some steps I was take with my cycle. I been running prop low tren EQ. I used to try and run test at a 2:1 ratio to androgens because wait for it.....gh15 said so. This was awhile ago , just recently did he start with the low test. I am with you on a.i.' s too. Just a little a-dex EOD with prop high and I felt great. I don't have that same feeling with the test low. Was gonna add mast to what I was running but maybe I will just grab some anastro and up the test
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Glass Gorilla
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 10:45:31 PM »

Great post SmoofCat, very informative. Good to see you're serious about the health aspect. Instead of using 5 different compounds in that cycle you suggessted, what do you think about only using 3 just at a higher dose? Like just sustanon, tren ace, and anavar (or any combination), but at a higher dose each. 
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SmoofCat
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2012, 11:15:04 PM »

Great post SmoofCat, very informative. Good to see you're serious about the health aspect. Instead of using 5 different compounds in that cycle you suggessted, what do you think about only using 3 just at a higher dose? Like just sustanon, tren ace, and anavar (or any combination), but at a higher dose each. 

The reason I used the 5 specific ones above, is because I have had amazing results from the cycle listed above. *

You could definitely run 3 and have amazing results. An example below:
-350 mg tren ace weekly
-700 mg primo weekly
-875 mg sustanon weekly (I lowered the test amount due to the anavar and npp being dropped)

However, anavar is SUCH an important part of this specific cycle I run, that I would advise running at least 50 mg daily, if not 100 mg daily (my recommended dose). The NPP, even at the low dose of 350 mg weekly, adds a certain thickness to the upper body, while not bloating the waist. I find that this specific sustanon, top chef, gives a very similar effect in that it adds fullness all throughout the body, especially the upper, as testosterone does, but without any bloat in the waist. I believe the prop is very strong in this sust, while the long esters remained the same, and it is just a wonderful blend overall. The tren ace and primo are not optional and neither is the sustanon or other testosterone .i suggest the sust in this stack, because of how brilliantly the cycle- rather, blast went for me.  The primo has been truly adding muscle to my difficult areas (rear delts for example) and it is truly all lean mass, and it also has been sculpting and adding this nice roundness to the entire delts. I have actually notice a real roundness to my deltoids, and i personally love it. And the tren ace is totally non negotiable in this cycle- it is the heart.






*the aforementioned cycle is:
-1225 mg sustanon (175 mg daily)
-350 mg NPP (50 mg daily)
-350 mg Tren ace (50 mg daily)
-700 mg primo (100 mg daily)
-100 mg anavar daily
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2012, 11:22:35 PM »

Smooth,

Whats your take on running tren for long periods and health? 
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DorianGrey
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2012, 11:54:35 PM »

^^^^^^ in for answer..
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 02:50:21 AM »

How long can you run masteron before your prostate needs a break, and how long should the break be? I've been on masteron for like 3 - 4 months now, and I wanted to blast the fuck out of it for another 15 weeks... Should I take a break from masteron before I blast it?
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2012, 03:14:16 AM »

Id say you're fairly safe to run it for 6 months now as long as you aren't being irresponsible with it(150/200 per day) . Smoof has said before he likes to take about 6 months break from it
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2012, 05:26:50 AM »

The reason I used the 5 specific ones above, is because I have had amazing results from the cycle listed above. *

You could definitely run 3 and have amazing results. An example below:
-350 mg tren ace weekly
-700 mg primo weekly
-875 mg sustanon weekly (I lowered the test amount due to the anavar and npp being dropped)

However, anavar is SUCH an important part of this specific cycle I run, that I would advise running at least 50 mg daily, if not 100 mg daily (my recommended dose). The NPP, even at the low dose of 350 mg weekly, adds a certain thickness to the upper body, while not bloating the waist. I find that this specific sustanon, top chef, gives a very similar effect in that it adds fullness all throughout the body, especially the upper, as testosterone does, but without any bloat in the waist. I believe the prop is very strong in this sust, while the long esters remained the same, and it is just a wonderful blend overall. The tren ace and primo are not optional and neither is the sustanon or other testosterone .i suggest the sust in this stack, because of how brilliantly the cycle- rather, blast went for me.  The primo has been truly adding muscle to my difficult areas (rear delts for example) and it is truly all lean mass, and it also has been sculpting and adding this nice roundness to the entire delts. I have actually notice a real roundness to my deltoids, and i personally love it. And the tren ace is totally non negotiable in this cycle- it is the heart.






*the aforementioned cycle is:
-1225 mg sustanon (175 mg daily)
-350 mg NPP (50 mg daily)
-350 mg Tren ace (50 mg daily)
-700 mg primo (100 mg daily)
-100 mg anavar daily
Thanks Smoof! Another very informative, detailed post.
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2012, 05:30:25 AM »

great post I agree completely. Test is the only aas that makes me feel great with little to no sides. It should be the base to nearly every stack. I took it out of my cycle 4 weeks away from my contest and just added it back post contest (150 prop eod) and man I feel like a new person.
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2012, 05:32:31 AM »

Id say you're fairly safe to run it for 6 months now as long as you aren't being irresponsible with it(150/200 per day) . Smoof has said before he likes to take about 6 months break from it
He just said the other day he wanted to jump to a gram a week lol
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2012, 05:45:55 AM »

You must realize that some steroids are "hated" because dealers have better proffit from other steroids so they talk shit about test as an example.
Test is just great, so are AI's.
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2012, 05:58:15 AM »

Spot on Smoof.

This guy knows how this game works.

It's like a shining light in an ocean full of darkness.

I agree with everything you said.

Smoof speaks just like all of the top NPC guys i know and it's obvious he's been in this game a long time.

Great to have you here brother, i wish more competitors would make posts like this. Posts like this were a common occurrence on this board years ago; we are lucky to have guys willing to spend the amount of time needed to address these things.


Cool
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El Diablo Blanco
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2012, 07:37:31 AM »

SO how did your show go?
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2012, 08:44:39 AM »

You must realize that some steroids are "hated" because dealers have better proffit from other steroids so they talk shit about test as an example.
Test is just great, so are AI's.

This is ridiculous. We all know what these steroids do anyway. There are too few dealers in a sea of users for them to influence our decisions.
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2012, 08:55:11 AM »

He just said the other day he wanted to jump to a gram a week lol

Regarding tren I only run it 6-8 months a year because I personally begin to feel toxic around month 6. As soon as I drop the tren, I physically feel better.

Yes, when I am on tren I have run as high as 1400mg weekly. And I have done as little as 350 mg weekly. I am recently developing the opinion that mega
Doses of tren cause more harm to me personally than good.

I am not an expert. I just have a good deal of personal experience. So you can argue with me that tren can be run year round. I don't care. My personal experience
Tells me you must get off at month 6-8
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2012, 09:45:09 AM »

Regarding tren I only run it 6-8 months a year because I personally begin to feel toxic around month 6. As soon as I drop the tren, I physically feel better.

Yes, when I am on tren I have run as high as 1400mg weekly. And I have done as little as 350 mg weekly. I am recently developing the opinion that mega
Doses of tren cause more harm to me personally than good.

I am not an expert. I just have a good deal of personal experience. So you can argue with me that tren can be run year round. I don't care. My personal experience
Tells me you must get off at month 6-8
Ya I havent had any noticable sides running it high other than overheating a little but def dont feel great in the overall. That high testosterone feeling of well being is missing
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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2012, 09:46:46 AM »

Bye far the top poster on aas board. I've learned a lot from smoof. More than any poster including 15. I hope things in your personal life have gotten better.
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« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2012, 10:12:53 AM »

Bye far the top poster on aas board. I've learned a lot from smoof. More than any poster including 15. I hope things in your personal life have gotten better.
I agree, i hope he sticks around. Quality posts over quantity. Hey Smoof am I remembering one of your posts right, you were doing six plates a side on the HS shoulderpress? Fucking A
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« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2012, 10:27:55 AM »

Regarding tren I only run it 6-8 months a year because I personally begin to feel toxic around month 6. As soon as I drop the tren, I physically feel better.

Yes, when I am on tren I have run as high as 1400mg weekly. And I have done as little as 350 mg weekly. I am recently developing the opinion that mega
Doses of tren cause more harm to me personally than good.

I am not an expert. I just have a good deal of personal experience. So you can argue with me that tren can be run year round. I don't care. My personal experience
Tells me you must get off at month 6-8

Is that 6-8 continuous months with the rest of the year off, or something like 2 months off 1 month on?

Sorry to keep throwing questions at you, but there seems to be some confusion (at least for me) if tren is effective for offseason usage. I've read before that because it raises your metabolic rate so much that it should be avoided in the offseason. What are your thoughts on this SmoofCat? Others feel free to chime in.
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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2012, 10:33:39 AM »

Is that 6-8 continuous months with the rest of the year off, or something like 2 months off 1 month on?

Sorry to keep throwing questions at you, but there seems to be some confusion (at least for me) if tren is effective for offseason usage. I've read before that because it raises your metabolic rate so much that it should be avoided in the offseason. What are your thoughts on this SmoofCat? Others feel free to chime in.

Im sure smoof will answer but just to toss my opinion out there. Its totally depends on how you feel, the main point of getting off tren after 6 months is the mental sides become too much and you just dont feel right. Whats more is go by how your body feels, if your starting to ache in places you shouldnt ( liver, kidney, etc ) then switch out compounds or take a few weeks off.
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« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2012, 11:18:07 AM »

                                                         (2) 350 mg NPP (50 mg daily)
                                                          (3) 350 mg Tren Ace (50 mg daily)

I thought running two 19 nor andros in the same cycle is a 'no' 'no'?

Can Deca be substituted for the NPP?
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2012, 11:32:01 AM »

I thought running two 19 nor andros in the same cycle is a 'no' 'no'?

Can Deca be substituted for the NPP?
i don't love deca. the water retention is bad. deca is also the one steroid that gives me acne, and it turns my face, which is normally extremely lean into something a bit circular. I love the strength increases on deca, but aesthetically i hate the compound... it is essentially the one compound that i most likely will never run again.

also, i don't agree that 2 19 nors "can not" be run together. actually, NPP + tren ace is a very unique combo that essentially you can't replicate.
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« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2012, 11:37:37 AM »

Is that 6-8 continuous months with the rest of the year off, or something like 2 months off 1 month on?

Sorry to keep throwing questions at you, but there seems to be some confusion (at least for me) if tren is effective for offseason usage. I've read before that because it raises your metabolic rate so much that it should be avoided in the offseason. What are your thoughts on this SmoofCat? Others feel free to chime in.

i truly do not believe tren ace is necessary for off season.

i most likely will never compete again, because my days have become 9-5 in an office and then EOD marriage counseling after work, with an inordinate emphasis on my steroid use (i have truly been painted the villain by every professional because i have been open about my hormone use). but  i maintain 225 @ under 6% by following my instincts and learning from the mistakes in my past hormone usage. i take big stacks, but i am hyper aware of every element in the stack. i do not just throw anything i can into the syringe and shoot. i think about every single hormone and ask myself why i am using it and if the dose is too high or low, and why.

and for these reasons  i don't use tren ace whatsoever for a good part of the year. i understand if you do use it all year round. there is no black and white answer here. i do not. some may. i happen to not like to use tren ace year round.

nosleep has a very good post about this somewhere out there on this board. he writes about not taking tren ace for the entirety of the year, and lays out his opinions very concisely. maybe sleep can share that again here.
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