Author Topic: Who believes in God?  (Read 51740 times)

Man of Steel

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #350 on: June 22, 2012, 09:54:10 AM »
I won't speak for other atheists here as atheists can disagree among themselves on everything, including their reason(s) for being atheists. I will say that while science is extremely important for establishing a justifiable worldview, it isn't everything. I am constantly babbling about logical matters on here, and no law of logic will ever be placed into a test tube. Ergo your representation of the irreligious on here is a fiction your mind has concocted. Reason operates independently of science despite being essential for it.

No one asked you for "proof" of anything. The point was raised that people around the world have the very same experience, except with different content to their experience. If everybody's religious experience were of Christ then we would have an argument for something like  your view. As you keep overlooking, however Christianity is a minority view whose content is not in the majority of peoples' religious experiences. Hence , the experience in question cannot be evidence for one particular sort of content as there is too much widely divergent content that goes along with that experience. The experience as such is either evidence of all of the divergent content (Christ, Buddha, Vishna, becoming one with the universe, etc.) or none of it.

I happen to go with the 'none of the above' option.

P.S. In all of this you still haven't provided a single reason for supposing Christianity is correct. I kind of feel bad because I already know all of the most plausible ones. But I want to know how actual Christians think, not just those ensconsed in academic philosophy. Since there aren't any actual reasons being offered, the only explanation is that complex pyschological factors are at work (e.g., adopting specific beliefs to meet certain psychological needs).

I said the atheists on Getbig not all atheists and thus far all of my encounters with the Getbig atheists have indicated exactly what I stated.

I've been asked for proof of my experiences time and time again on this board....not within this thread, but many, many other threads. 

I know you already know the most plausible, apologetic explanations...as does avxo, as does Magoo, etc....I'm fully aware that you already have both sides of the debate all sewn up before the debate is even initiated.  Which begs the question:  why engage at all?

The only thing you have no concept of is the love of Christ in your life and that's all I want for anyone that hasn't experienced it.

syntaxmachine

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #351 on: June 22, 2012, 10:04:53 AM »
I said the atheists on Getbig not all atheists and thus far all of my encounters with the Getbig atheists have indicated exactly what I stated.

I've been asked for proof of my experiences time and time again on this board....not within this thread, but many, many other threads.  

I know you already know the most plausible, apologetic explanations...as does avxo, as does Magoo, etc....I'm fully aware that you already have both sides of the debate all sewn up before the debate is even initiated.  Which begs the question:  why engage at all?

The only thing you have no concept of is the love of Christ in your life and that's all I want for anyone that hasn't experienced it.

I am an atheist and I am on getbig, thus your proposed description is supposed to apply to me as well. Luckily I think you know better.

I already know and have dwelled upon every plausible reason for being Christian and still talk with you because I'd like to understand how everyday Christians think rather than merely the philosophically trained ones. There is also the possibility that I hear about a new angle, or perspective. Isn't all of this better than simply writing you off?

Man of Steel

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #352 on: June 22, 2012, 10:32:11 AM »
I am an atheist and I am on getbig, thus your proposed descreption is supposed to apply to me as well. Luckily I think you know better.

I already know and have dwelled upon every plausible reason for being Christian and still talk with you because I'd like to understand how everyday Christians think rather than merely the philosophically trained ones. There is also the possibility that I hear about a new angle, or perspective. Isn't all of this better than simply writing you off?


I've written someone off? 

I told another believer that on Getbig the atheists here don't find value in personal, religious experience and then I described what I've been told by said Getbig atheists. 

If you feel differently about religious experiences then for go forward purposes I'll refer to "the vast majority of Getbig atheists" and will completely respect your position....it's easy with me.  I don't have a "I'ma gonna getcha" agenda.

avxo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #353 on: June 22, 2012, 11:05:49 AM »
I said the atheists on Getbig not all atheists and thus far all of my encounters with the Getbig atheists have indicated exactly what I stated.

I've been asked for proof of my experiences time and time again on this board....not within this thread, but many, many other threads.

I don't recall asking for proof of your experiences. But perhaps I did. Without reference to any specific incident I would like to add a bit more context: if you say "I had a personal revelation and as a result I believe" then I probably won't as for proof of this personal revelation, except in discussing how you interpreted that experience to decide that it was the Christian God as opposed to some other deity.

But if you (and I'm using the term generically here) use those personal experiences as an argument in a discussion, then I think that I am not only entitled, but obligated to ask you to prove those experiences.


I know you already know the most plausible, apologetic explanations...as does avxo, as does Magoo, etc....I'm fully aware that you already have both sides of the debate all sewn up before the debate is even initiated.  Which begs the question:  why engage at all?

I don't think I have both sides of the debate all sewn up. But I do think that if you put yourself in the shoes of someone like myself for a minute, you will understand that in debating a lot of these things, you've had to answer or explain the same thing a million times. And it can get old. Sometimes I try to preempt that by not only addressing the question, but also the two or three questions that, in my experience, are incoming.  That may come off as a bit arrogant, but it's not meant as such.

As for why I engage? The short answer is that I find the topic interesting. The slightly longer answer is that I find the topic interesting and sometimes I find people with whom I genuinely enjoy debating.

syntaxmachine

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #354 on: June 22, 2012, 11:58:04 AM »

I've written someone off?  

I told another believer that on Getbig the atheists here don't find value in personal, religious experience and then I described what I've been told by said Getbig atheists.  

If you feel differently about religious experiences then for go forward purposes I'll refer to "the vast majority of Getbig atheists" and will completely respect your position....it's easy with me.  I don't have a "I'ma gonna getcha" agenda.


I said 'isn't it better that I engage with Christians rather than write them off?' The whole paragraph the expression occurs in is me talking about my conduct, and the expression explicitly refers to me. Nothing here implies you doing anything. So I'm not saying you've written somebody off. Stop reading yourself into every paragraph!

King Shizzo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #355 on: June 22, 2012, 12:03:45 PM »
People are forgetting the most important question of all.  Will god believe in you?

Man of Steel

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #356 on: June 22, 2012, 12:07:37 PM »
I don't recall asking for proof of your experiences. But perhaps I did. Without reference to any specific incident I would like to add a bit more context: if you say "I had a personal revelation and as a result I believe" then I probably won't as for proof of this personal revelation, except in discussing how you interpreted that experience to decide that it was the Christian God as opposed to some other deity.

But if you (and I'm using the term generically here) use those personal experiences as an argument in a discussion, then I think that I am not only entitled, but obligated to ask you to prove those experiences.


I don't think I have both sides of the debate all sewn up. But I do think that if you put yourself in the shoes of someone like myself for a minute, you will understand that in debating a lot of these things, you've had to answer or explain the same thing a million times. And it can get old. Sometimes I try to preempt that by not only addressing the question, but also the two or three questions that, in my experience, are incoming.  That may come off as a bit arrogant, but it's not meant as such.

As for why I engage? The short answer is that I find the topic interesting. The slightly longer answer is that I find the topic interesting and sometimes I find people with whom I genuinely enjoy debating.


I don't find anything uncomfortable or off-putting in what you just wrote....it was honest and didn't contain insults or arrogance. I don't mind speaking with you, syntaxmachine and magoo because the "let's gang up on the Christian mentality" isn't there.  The debate can actually be enjoyable at times!!  Certainly frustrating at others because I don't have all the answers, but that's part of the deal so I'm cool with it. 

I truly wish I could provide you some evidence of my very personal experiences, but I have nothing concrete to present.....just myself.  Ironically it's sometimes hardest to convince those closest to you that know you the best (siblings, close friends, even parents).  I've heard it said so many times before (and even again within this thread), but personal testimonies are the weakest form of evidence for God.  Ironically those experiences are some of the most powerful, transforming experiences and evidence for Christ in a believer's ife, but they were special and personal for me alone.  Certainly I can share them, but I fully understand how some embrace them and others dismiss them.  Again, if I had evidence to present you would have long since had it to review LOL!!!  It's about faith and how Christ reveals himself to you in life because of that faith. 

Radical Plato

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #357 on: June 22, 2012, 09:59:20 PM »
God is an atheist - True Story!
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Donny

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #358 on: June 23, 2012, 02:19:44 AM »
I wrote a reply on this God thing but i removed it because i will go to Hell for it... ;D

garebear

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #359 on: June 24, 2012, 03:22:43 AM »
God is an atheist - True Story!
Haha!

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DKlent

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #360 on: June 26, 2012, 10:47:27 AM »
Not me.

Donny

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #361 on: June 26, 2012, 01:15:03 PM »
Fuck the Pope >:( >:(

garebear

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #362 on: July 07, 2012, 05:34:55 AM »
Not me.
Well, we'll be seeing you in hell, DKlent!
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DKlent

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #363 on: July 07, 2012, 11:47:43 AM »
Well, we'll be seeing you in hell, DKlent!

I'll see you there then.

orion

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #364 on: July 12, 2012, 07:19:18 AM »
Fuck the Pope >:( >:(

Now you're going to hell, but on the bright side you probably will see the Pope there. ;D

Donny

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #365 on: July 12, 2012, 07:50:45 AM »
Now you're going to hell, but on the bright side you probably will see the Pope there. ;D
Great post.. ;D

garebear

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #366 on: July 15, 2012, 06:28:46 AM »
.
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Man of Steel

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #367 on: July 15, 2012, 11:22:41 AM »
I checked again today and I still believe in God.  The Christian God.....there are so many Gods to choose from!  Was gonna go with the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but figured I'd go with Christ.

OTHstrong

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #368 on: July 15, 2012, 02:58:20 PM »
I checked again today and I still believe in God.  The Christian God.....there are so many Gods to choose from!  Was gonna go with the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but figured I'd go with Christ.
God bless brother  ;)

garebear

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #369 on: July 15, 2012, 06:30:19 PM »
I checked again today and I still believe in God.  The Christian God.....there are so many Gods to choose from!  Was gonna go with the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but figured I'd go with Christ.
.
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orion

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #370 on: July 16, 2012, 06:35:36 AM »
I checked again today and I still believe in God.  The Christian God.....there are so many Gods to choose from!  Was gonna go with the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but figured I'd go with Christ.

I'm going with Chrom.  If it's good enough for Conan then it's good enough for me, if not then "THE HELL WITH YOU!". ;D

King Shizzo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #371 on: July 31, 2012, 03:07:33 PM »
God would not make humans speak on his behalf.  It's all bullshit.

OTHstrong

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #372 on: July 31, 2012, 03:15:26 PM »
God would not make humans speak on his behalf.  It's all bullshit.
Shizzo, why you got to be like this bro... lol  8)

I mean the thread is already buried but yet you feel the need to get one last comment to state your opinion. Almost like in an instigating way,  :(


Haha, anyway, I am up for the challenge any day. First of all, you don't know what God would do, so stop pretending you do, Second of all God did get the old prophets to speak on his behalf. Just cause you decide to not believe this, it doesn't mean it wasn't true   ;)

King Shizzo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #373 on: July 31, 2012, 03:26:24 PM »
Shizzo, why you got to be like this bro... lol  8)

I mean the thread is already buried but yet you feel the need to get one last comment to state your opinion. Almost like in an instigating way,  :(


Haha, anyway, I am up for the challenge any day. First of all, you don't know what God would do, so stop pretending you do, Second of all God did get the old prophets to speak on his behalf. Just cause you decide to not believe this, it doesn't mean it wasn't true   ;)
I'm talking about now.  Do you think god speaks to the pope? Like someone said earlier, most Cardinals have admitted that religion is bullshit.  I hope there is a god, but it seems that the smarter you are , the more you question.

OTHstrong

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #374 on: July 31, 2012, 03:35:57 PM »
I'm talking about now.  Do you think god speaks to the pope? Like someone said earlier, most Cardinals have admitted that religion is bullshit.  I hope there is a god, but it seems that the smarter you are , the more you question.
There is smart people on both sides of the fence and no I don't believe  God talks to the pope.