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Author Topic: Who believes in God?  (Read 14388 times)
Shizzo
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« Reply #375 on: July 31, 2012, 03:45:35 PM »

There is smart people on both sides of the fence and no I don't believe  God talks to the pope.
I'll put it this way, I hope that there is a god.  I hope that there is a new beginning after this life is over. Humans have the most developed brain for a reason.  We are programmed to think , question, and study the world around us.  Why should the story of God or Jesus be any different?
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« Reply #376 on: July 31, 2012, 04:24:40 PM »

I'll put it this way, I hope that there is a god.  I hope that there is a new beginning after this life is over. Humans have the most developed brain for a reason.  We are programmed to think , question, and study the world around us.  Why should the story of God or Jesus be any different?
It's not any different, you have to do your research and find out what leads you to the truth with an open heart. You will not believe what I am about to say but the following is true;......

I believe in God cause I have put 20-40 hours of study into history every week sense I was 12 years old and this has lead me to believe, I have studied every single nation, every single origin of language, every single manuscript or ancient document and every single recorded war. Culture, Traditions, Religions, ethnicity all pertaining to human history I have studied. I also have read the Biblical Narrative over and over again, then studied more history and always went back to the Biblical narrative and the more I study history the more I come back to the basic conclusion that the Biblical narrative is 100% accurate. The Genesis accounts in terms of developing nations is extremely accurate, the founders of the ancient world are all Biblical characters such as the historical Sargon the great who is the Biblical Nimrod, Sennacherib, Esarhaddon and Ashurbanipal from Assyria are all Biblical characters and there is massive amounts of information found on them, all being on par with the Biblical accounts. The Achaemenid dynasty is in the Biblical narrative and the list is endless.

Now get this, There is over 6000 erected structures in the Ancient world, maybe even 10 000, anyway, we know who erected most of them, actually 99% of them. We have 2000 + recorded battles, we have over 1000 well known kings, leaders or rulers, we have over 1000 military commanders, we have art work, we have 700+ known Nations of people or tribes. We have at least 70 distinct languages and we have tons of found ancient ruins that we have discovered with precisely the known ethnic groups we find associated with that region in ancient times.

What is my point?,.... SIMPLE,... all of the above is found between the year zero and 3000 BC, so what is found from the 3000BC to 6000BC, No erected structures, NONE, No recorded Battles, NONE, No recorded military battles, NONE, no recorded military commanders, NONE, No recorded civilizations, NONE.

There is simply nothing at all prior to this and the information doesn't descent in quantity, it simply gets cut right off at the 3000BC mark exactly on par with what you would expect with the Biblical narrative.

and this sir is one of the reasons I believe in the Bible.

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« Reply #377 on: July 31, 2012, 04:30:04 PM »

It's not any different, you have to do your research and find out what leads you to the truth with an open heart. You will not believe what I am about to say but the following is true;......

I believe in God cause I have put 20-40 hours of study into history every week sense I was 12 years old and this has lead me to believe, I have studied every single nation, every single origin of language, every single manuscript or ancient document and every single recorded war. Culture, Traditions, Religions, ethnicity all pertaining to human history I have studied. I also have read the Biblical Narrative over and over again, then studied more history and always went back to the Biblical narrative and the more I study history the more I come back to the basic conclusion that the Biblical narrative is 100% accurate. The Genesis accounts in terms of developing nations is extremely accurate, the founders of the ancient world are all Biblical characters such as the historical Sargon the great who is the Biblical Nimrod, Sennacherib, Esarhaddon and Ashurbanipal from Assyria are all Biblical characters and there is massive amounts of information found on them, all being on par with the Biblical accounts. The Achaemenid dynasty is in the Biblical narrative and the list is endless.

Now get this, There is over 6000 erected structures in the Ancient world, maybe even 10 000, anyway, we know who erected most of them, actually 99% of them. We have 2000 + recorded battles, we have over 1000 well known kings, leaders or rulers, we have over 1000 military commanders, we have art work, we have 700+ known Nations of people or tribes. We have at least 70 distinct languages and we have tons of found ancient ruins that we have discovered with precisely the known ethnic groups we find associated with that region in ancient times.

What is my point?,.... SIMPLE,... all of the above is found between the year zero and 3000 BC, so what is found from the 3000BC to 6000BC, No erected structures, NONE, No recorded Battles, NONE, No recorded military battles, NONE, no recorded military commanders, NONE, No recorded civilizations, NONE.

There is simply nothing at all prior to this and the information doesn't descent in quantity, it simply gets cut right off at the 3000BC mark exactly on par with what you would expect with the Biblical narrative.

and this sir is one of the reasons I believe in the Bible.


Meltdown.  I still respect your opinion  Kiss  All we have is opinions.
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Onetimehard
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« Reply #378 on: July 31, 2012, 04:37:48 PM »

Meltdown.  I still respect your opinion  Kiss  All we have is opinions.
how is that a meltdown?....  Huh    I didn't even swear  Tongue
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Shizzo
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« Reply #379 on: July 31, 2012, 04:39:49 PM »

how is that a meltdown?....  Huh    I didn't even swear  Tongue
Hey, It's Mob week on AMC.  All week great gangster ficks on at 8.  Tonight it's Godfather 2.
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« Reply #380 on: August 02, 2012, 05:04:52 AM »

It's not any different, you have to do your research and find out what leads you to the truth with an open heart. You will not believe what I am about to say but the following is true;......

I believe in God cause I have put 20-40 hours of study into history every week sense I was 12 years old and this has lead me to believe, I have studied every single nation, every single origin of language, every single manuscript or ancient document and every single recorded war. Culture, Traditions, Religions, ethnicity all pertaining to human history I have studied. I also have read the Biblical Narrative over and over again, then studied more history and always went back to the Biblical narrative and the more I study history the more I come back to the basic conclusion that the Biblical narrative is 100% accurate. The Genesis accounts in terms of developing nations is extremely accurate, the founders of the ancient world are all Biblical characters such as the historical Sargon the great who is the Biblical Nimrod, Sennacherib, Esarhaddon and Ashurbanipal from Assyria are all Biblical characters and there is massive amounts of information found on them, all being on par with the Biblical accounts. The Achaemenid dynasty is in the Biblical narrative and the list is endless.

Now get this, There is over 6000 erected structures in the Ancient world, maybe even 10 000, anyway, we know who erected most of them, actually 99% of them. We have 2000 + recorded battles, we have over 1000 well known kings, leaders or rulers, we have over 1000 military commanders, we have art work, we have 700+ known Nations of people or tribes. We have at least 70 distinct languages and we have tons of found ancient ruins that we have discovered with precisely the known ethnic groups we find associated with that region in ancient times.

What is my point?,.... SIMPLE,... all of the above is found between the year zero and 3000 BC, so what is found from the 3000BC to 6000BC, No erected structures, NONE, No recorded Battles, NONE, No recorded military battles, NONE, no recorded military commanders, NONE, No recorded civilizations, NONE.

There is simply nothing at all prior to this and the information doesn't descent in quantity, it simply gets cut right off at the 3000BC mark exactly on par with what you would expect with the Biblical narrative.

and this sir is one of the reasons I believe in the Bible.



Strange.

My studies in history have lead to the opposite conclusion. I don't mean the existence of God, but rather religion in general.
Religious texts are written from a human perspective.
Why the would the creator of the universe think in the same way as us stupid petty humans....?

If we already believe something and look for evidence to back it up, we'll usually find that evidence.

And just because there are no 'recorded' previous civilizations does not mean they didn't exist. Deserts move, landscapes change, coastlines sink....

Also, just because the Bible is accurate about the surrounding world it describes does not necessarily mean it's accurate about metaphysical issues as well. They are ancient texts, so of course would be describing or commenting on the world around them and how it relates to them, their lives and their problems.

Personally, I believe in the possibility of human civilization existing prior to 6000 BC.
Advanced structures have been discovered in Turkey and South America which are estimated to be from about 10 000 BC. I think some may have been estimated at 30 000 BC.

I like to keep an open mind about these issues.

We also don't really know what happened before the last ice-age.
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« Reply #381 on: August 02, 2012, 01:21:56 PM »

The estimations you speak of dating back prior to 3000 BC is not accepted by any University or historian, only theories and claims. The accepted age of the oldest civilization is that of Summer and the language and/or writing is cuneiform dating back 3000BC.

You can believe in prior civilizations all you want but there is not 1 shred of proof, no monuments, no structures, no monarchy, no soldiers, no battles. The problem is not that there is not signs of people, the problem is the contrast in signs of humans in short span of time, say 500 years, Example 4000 BC there is nothing and all of a sudden there is over 30 nations and many different languages and hundreds of structures and recorded battles in less then a 1000 years. This is not what you would find if there was people everywhere 1000's of years prior, there would be signs of human existence.

Now to your other point, is the entire Bible accurate just cause the historical narrative of the Bible is accurate, no one said that, although it is my believe that it is, my argument is from our common ground and not my faith just to make fair here.

Deserts move, landscapes change, coastlines sink....  so you are saying this wiped out all sign of humans, lol,,.... all these catastrophes must have occurred all at the same time lol and every where at once too, according to this logic, C'mon brother. All this happened in every era and there is always a sign of humans. Now I do agree that an Ice age would wipe out any signs of human existence, however, no one has ever dated an ice age to this time period.
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Shizzo
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« Reply #382 on: August 02, 2012, 03:14:25 PM »

Both Griffith's and Onetimehard's  last two thoughts, are the reason why we will never have a true answer.  Both have logical arguments.  I guess it comes down to "faith" for some people.
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« Reply #383 on: August 03, 2012, 01:57:56 AM »

The estimations you speak of dating back prior to 3000 BC is not accepted by any University or historian, only theories and claims. The accepted age of the oldest civilization is that of Summer and the language and/or writing is cuneiform dating back 3000BC.

You can believe in prior civilizations all you want but there is not 1 shred of proof, no monuments, no structures, no monarchy, no soldiers, no battles. The problem is not that there is not signs of people, the problem is the contrast in signs of humans in short span of time, say 500 years, Example 4000 BC there is nothing and all of a sudden there is over 30 nations and many different languages and hundreds of structures and recorded battles in less then a 1000 years. This is not what you would find if there was people everywhere 1000's of years prior, there would be signs of human existence.

Now to your other point, is the entire Bible accurate just cause the historical narrative of the Bible is accurate, no one said that, although it is my believe that it is, my argument is from our common ground and not my faith just to make fair here.

Deserts move, landscapes change, coastlines sink....  so you are saying this wiped out all sign of humans, lol,,.... all these catastrophes must have occurred all at the same time lol and every where at once too, according to this logic, C'mon brother. All this happened in every era and there is always a sign of humans. Now I do agree that an Ice age would wipe out any signs of human existence, however, no one has ever dated an ice age to this time period.

North Africa used to the breadbasket of the Roman Empire, in less than 2000 years the landscape has changed dramatically. There used to be woodlands, lions and other animals as found further inland. In areas where there are now desert dunes, there used to be trees.
This is a dramatic change for less than 2000 years.

With regards to 'university' accepted theories, it seems they are set on a particular narrative and generally quite slow to change or embracing newer theories and evidence.

For instance, evidence exists of far more extensive populations living in the Amazon region than had previously been thought, and of a more advanced nature as well. Evidence such as foundations, extensive deep dykes and better quality pottery than later periods. Much of it is now submerged or destroyed by dense jungle.
The local oral history also speak about once having large cities and have shown it is possible to live there if the forest areas are cleared.

However, this goes against the current narrative that is 'impossible' for a large scale society to have once lived in the Amazon region. The evidence is there, but you won't read about it in history textbooks.

There's even documented evidence that the Chinese sent an expedition to Africa even before the Europeans did.
Have the history books changed....? No, because there's already an established narrative and its doubtful anyone would want to put their careers on the line to rock the boat.

Göbekli Tepe in Turkey has been dated at 7500-6000 BC with surrounding settlements at 9000 or 11 000 BC.
If human civilization only started in 6000 BC then why were they able to already build such advanced structures....?
Human beings are supposed to be hunter-gatherers at this stage.
Only 5% of the complex had been unearthed.
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« Reply #384 on: August 03, 2012, 08:43:05 AM »

North Africa used to the breadbasket of the Roman Empire, in less than 2000 years the landscape has changed dramatically. There used to be woodlands, lions and other animals as found further inland. In areas where there are now desert dunes, there used to be trees.
This is a dramatic change for less than 2000 years.

With regards to 'university' accepted theories, it seems they are set on a particular narrative and generally quite slow to change or embracing newer theories and evidence.

For instance, evidence exists of far more extensive populations living in the Amazon region than had previously been thought, and of a more advanced nature as well. Evidence such as foundations, extensive deep dykes and better quality pottery than later periods. Much of it is now submerged or destroyed by dense jungle.
The local oral history also speak about once having large cities and have shown it is possible to live there if the forest areas are cleared.

However, this goes against the current narrative that is 'impossible' for a large scale society to have once lived in the Amazon region. The evidence is there, but you won't read about it in history textbooks.

There's even documented evidence that the Chinese sent an expedition to Africa even before the Europeans did.
Have the history books changed....? No, because there's already an established narrative and its doubtful anyone would want to put their careers on the line to rock the boat.

Göbekli Tepe in Turkey has been dated at 7500-6000 BC with surrounding settlements at 9000 or 11 000 BC.
If human civilization only started in 6000 BC then why were they able to already build such advanced structures....?
Human beings are supposed to be hunter-gatherers at this stage.
Only 5% of the complex had been unearthed.

well all i know is the Romans shit their pants and built a wall too keep us scots out...the English have not the pleasure anymore...but on a positive note..your post was very intellectual for Getbig.
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Shizzo
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« Reply #385 on: August 03, 2012, 02:25:57 PM »

We really have no idea what really happened in ancient times.  I'm sure it would blow our minds to find out the truth.
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« Reply #386 on: August 04, 2012, 10:36:38 AM »

We really have no idea what really happened in ancient times.  I'm sure it would blow our minds to find out the truth.
one thing is sure the Romans had whore houses Grin
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« Reply #387 on: August 04, 2012, 05:03:56 PM »

North Africa used to the breadbasket of the Roman Empire, in less than 2000 years the landscape has changed dramatically. There used to be woodlands, lions and other animals as found further inland. In areas where there are now desert dunes, there used to be trees.
This is a dramatic change for less than 2000 years.

With regards to 'university' accepted theories, it seems they are set on a particular narrative and generally quite slow to change or embracing newer theories and evidence.

For instance, evidence exists of far more extensive populations living in the Amazon region than had previously been thought, and of a more advanced nature as well. Evidence such as foundations, extensive deep dykes and better quality pottery than later periods. Much of it is now submerged or destroyed by dense jungle.
The local oral history also speak about once having large cities and have shown it is possible to live there if the forest areas are cleared.

However, this goes against the current narrative that is 'impossible' for a large scale society to have once lived in the Amazon region. The evidence is there, but you won't read about it in history textbooks.

There's even documented evidence that the Chinese sent an expedition to Africa even before the Europeans did.
Have the history books changed....? No, because there's already an established narrative and its doubtful anyone would want to put their careers on the line to rock the boat.


If human civilization only started in 6000 BC then why were they able to already build such advanced structures....?
Human beings are supposed to be hunter-gatherers at this stage.
Only 5% of the complex had been unearthed.

OK I am not going to lie, this is a very good post  Wink

except of course this; Göbekli Tepe in Turkey has been dated at 7500-6000 BC with surrounding settlements at 9000 or 11 000 BC.

^^^this is a fraud to make good television, a professor (an atheist BTW) ripped the dates apart, very vague and unsubstantiated, they pulled those dates out of no where, very poor, never be accepted, I will find you his article, completely mocks them, very embarrassing.
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Shizzo
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« Reply #388 on: August 05, 2012, 01:49:43 PM »

OK I am not going to lie, this is a very good post  Wink

except of course this; Göbekli Tepe in Turkey has been dated at 7500-6000 BC with surrounding settlements at 9000 or 11 000 BC.

^^^this is a fraud to make good television, a professor (an atheist BTW) ripped the dates apart, very vague and unsubstantiated, they pulled those dates out of no where, very poor, never be accepted, I will find you his article, completely mocks them, very embarrassing.
Can we substitute the word "faith" for "hope" One?  I think that it is more fitting.
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« Reply #389 on: August 05, 2012, 02:23:46 PM »

Just checking in and I still believe in God....have a good one!
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« Reply #390 on: August 05, 2012, 04:42:22 PM »

Raised in a religious household and went to church regularly growing up, vacation bible school and all.

I very thankful for those times; the hypocrisy and lack of rational thought I witnessed helped me become the faithless atheist that I am today.
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« Reply #391 on: August 05, 2012, 10:44:25 PM »

Raised in a religious household and went to church regularly growing up, vacation bible school and all.

I very thankful for those times; the hypocrisy and lack of rational thought I witnessed helped me become the faithless atheist that I am today.
I know many devout Catholics and Methodists that have attended church for decades and have no concept of Christ, salvation or a relationship with Christ.  Attending church, sunday school and vacation bible school regularly is just that...regular attendance.  The hypocrisy of others has nothing to do with an individual relationship with Christ and a lack of rational thought is commonplace in both organized religion and every academic setting and discipline.  Invest in Christ and Christ alone....organized religion is meaningless without a relationship with Christ.
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« Reply #392 on: August 05, 2012, 10:46:58 PM »

OK I am not going to lie, this is a very good post  Wink

except of course this; Göbekli Tepe in Turkey has been dated at 7500-6000 BC with surrounding settlements at 9000 or 11 000 BC.

^^^this is a fraud to make good television, a professor (an atheist BTW) ripped the dates apart, very vague and unsubstantiated, they pulled those dates out of no where, very poor, never be accepted, I will find you his article, completely mocks them, very embarrassing.

Haha thanks  Grin

About Gobekli Tepe, those dates seem to be accepted by mainstream archaeologists though.
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« Reply #393 on: August 08, 2012, 11:40:48 PM »

In my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one.  I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation.  A God who rewards and punishes is inconceivable for the simple reason that a man's actions are determined by necessity, external and internal, so that in God's eyes he cannot be responsible, any more than an inanimate object is responsible for the motions it undergoes. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death. It is therefore easy to see why the churches have always fought science and persecuted its devotees.
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« Reply #394 on: August 09, 2012, 08:36:11 AM »

In my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one.  I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation.  A God who rewards and punishes is inconceivable for the simple reason that a man's actions are determined by necessity, external and internal, so that in God's eyes he cannot be responsible, any more than an inanimate object is responsible for the motions it undergoes. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death. It is therefore easy to see why the churches have always fought science and persecuted its devotees.

I think what many forget, simply do not know or choose to ignore is that God is not only a "loving" and "personal" God, but he's also equally a God of justice.  A parent that loves his child also disciplines his child accordingly.  

The punishment in eternity is the actual seperation from God and all of his divine attributes being removed for those that choose to have nothing to do with God.  I believe there are levels of hell much like there are levels of heaven and those that choose to seperate themselves from God will be given that seperation and judged accordingly (along with everyone else).
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« Reply #395 on: August 09, 2012, 09:13:17 AM »

I think what many forget, simply do not know or choose to ignore is that God is not only a "loving" and "personal" God, but he's also equally a God of justice.  A parent that loves his child also disciplines his child accordingly.  

The punishment in eternity is the actual seperation from God and all of his divine attributes being removed for those that choose to have nothing to do with God.  I believe there are levels of hell much like there are levels of heaven and those that choose to seperate themselves from God will be given that seperation and judged accordingly (along with everyone else).

How does one reconcile the cruel and vengeful God of the Old Testament with the more loving and forgiving One in the New Testament...?
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« Reply #396 on: August 09, 2012, 10:00:11 AM »

How does one reconcile the cruel and vengeful God of the Old Testament with the more loving and forgiving One in the New Testament...?

Examples you have would be helpful.
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« Reply #397 on: August 09, 2012, 11:13:59 AM »

Examples you have would be helpful.
Old Testament:
For instance that a father could sell his daughter into slavery if she disobeyed him.
Moses being told by God to kill everyone from one of the neighbouring tribes, including all women and children.
Public stoning of adulterers, witches etc.
Animal sacrifice.
The killing of priests who made any errors in the temple of the Ark of the Covenant.

I see this site lists quite a few examples: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Not trying to be derogatory or anything, I'm genuinely interested how the two books can be reconciled.
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« Reply #398 on: August 09, 2012, 11:26:20 AM »

How does one reconcile the cruel and vengeful God of the Old Testament with the more loving and forgiving One in the New Testament...?
People need to focus more on history to have a fair perspective of the old testament. What people fail to realize is the time in which the old testament took place was by no means civilized, in fact it was very disturbing and chaotic, very satanic and demonic.

You could not travel unless you where with a caravan full of soldiers, be caught on the road by yourself and consider yourself raped and tortured.

You have a group of dead bodies impaled in front of the city wall and you have another group of heads stuck on spike, public execution was a daily occurrence; flayed, stoned, boiled, beheaded, you name it.

You have wars every single year and it wasn't only soldiers, when your city got raided, men, woman, and children would get beaten, tortured, and killed. Actually babies would get smashed against the wall or thrown off balconies.

Many nations and tribes practice sacrificial rituals, often the person sacrificed would be burnt alive or buried alive and most sacrifices where children.

Death Sentences included being fed to animals, being stretched limb to limb, ah and how about getting honey poured on you and getting 5000 bees sting you to death.

God cruel?  I think it's an understatement to say he was justified in every action he took in the old testament



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« Reply #399 on: August 09, 2012, 11:33:20 AM »

People need to focus more on history to have a fair perspective of the old testament. What people fail to realize is the time in which the old testament took place was by no means civilized, in fact it was very disturbing and chaotic, very satanic and demonic.

You could not travel unless you where with a caravan full of soldiers, be caught on the road by yourself and consider yourself raped and tortured.

You have a group of dead bodies impaled in front of the city wall and you have another group of heads stuck on spike, public execution was a daily occurrence; flayed, stoned, boiled, beheaded, you name it.

You have wars every single year and it wasn't only soldiers, when your city got raided, men, woman, and children would get beaten, tortured, and killed. Actually babies would get smashed against the wall or thrown off balconies.

Many nations and tribes practice sacrificial rituals, often the person sacrificed would be burnt alive or buried alive and most sacrifices where children.

Death Sentences included being fed to animals, being stretched limb to limb, ah and how about getting honey poured on you and getting 5000 bees sting you to death.

God cruel?  I think it's an understatement to say he was justified in every action he took in the old testament

I know that, but this is human behaviour.

God is supposed to be superior to petty human emotions, thought and logic.
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