Author Topic: Who believes in God?  (Read 52127 times)

Dr Dutch

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #175 on: June 19, 2012, 12:41:07 PM »
Somewhere in the back of your mind, you have doubts.  Everyone does.  Even the most devout.
THIS I always found a very true statement...deep down they all know it's bull.

orion

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #176 on: June 19, 2012, 12:59:48 PM »
Years ago I read a paper written by a former priest who left the Catholic church because he was dissolutioned.  He was able to rise quite high up in the organization and even had a minor posting in the Vatican.  I can't remember all the details, but one thing I will never forget, he got to know a lot of the upper echelon in the Vatican and he said most of them admitted that there is probably no God, or devil or heaven or hell. When he asked them why they stay on it all came down to economics, they had pretty comfortable lives, everything was taken care of for them, and they got a lot of respect from the public.  Most of them had invested a lot of years in the church and walking away was unrealistc.

OTHstrong

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #177 on: June 19, 2012, 01:06:52 PM »
What is it, exactly, that you believe in? In other words, can you provide a rational, consistent definition of God for us?
Can you explain a rational alternative, I don't think so, no matter what direction you go, you will hit a brick wall, no explanation makes sense.

avxo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #178 on: June 19, 2012, 01:24:40 PM »
Can you explain a rational alternative, I don't think so, no matter what direction you go, you will hit a brick wall, no explanation makes sense.

A rational alternative to what?

Dr.J

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #179 on: June 19, 2012, 01:36:02 PM »
Not me I don't believe in good one bit!
Mr. AZ 2003

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #180 on: June 19, 2012, 01:37:15 PM »
A rational alternative to what?
You asked for the definition of God in a rational way. Of course this can't be done, Anyone that believes in God should concur that a rational explanation for his existence can not be explained. Any alternative can not be explained rationally either, what you believe in, whatever that may be has no rational explanation if you go deep enough..

reclifter

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #181 on: June 19, 2012, 01:42:23 PM »
Live your life as if someone is always watching. It doesn't take religion or a god to achieve this.


avxo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #182 on: June 19, 2012, 01:55:04 PM »
You asked for the definition of God in a rational way.

I did.


Of course this can't be done, Anyone that believes in God should concur that a rational explanation for his existence can not be explained.

So anyone that believes in God concedes that they believe in something they cannot define.


Any alternative can not be explained rationally either

Really?


what you believe in, whatever that may be has no rational explanation if you go deep enough..

Let's agree to disagree.

OTHstrong

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #183 on: June 19, 2012, 02:15:48 PM »
I did.


So anyone that believes in God concedes that they believe in something they cannot define.


Really?


Let's agree to disagree.

1.   Bro, you are losing it...... yes you did (ask).. Check^^^^^^

2.   They should, cause it's faith that brings them to God


3.   Can you explain "what's before time",   "where did matter come from",...'If the universe is expanding (time, space and matter) what is it expanding into?,... There is nothing rational about any of this, hence can't be explained in a manner that makes sense.  The definition of infinite is not rational, neither is the term  " an infinite regression" you know the one you like to throw around a lot.


4. unless you have the answere's you have no choice but to a agree with me that no explanation for the existense of the universe can be explained in a manner the human brain can grasp, so let's agree to disagree,... I don't think so.

avxo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #184 on: June 19, 2012, 02:40:53 PM »
1.   Bro, you are losing it...... yes you did (ask).. Check^^^^^^

Huh? Are you high? I agreed with you that I asked.


2.   They should, cause it's faith that brings them to God

Their faith brings them to believe in something that they cannot explain? Then what good is their belief?


3.   Can you explain "what's before time"

The question "what's before time" is meaningless - the very words you use imply a causal relationship that only exists when there is a temporal progression.


"where did matter come from"

There are theories, but to answer your question, no I cannot explain it. But so what? I don't have to believe in matter - I can see it all around me; I can touch it; I can even smell it. Are you seriously suggesting that the answer "I cannot answer the question X" is irrational?


'If the universe is expanding (time, space and matter) what is it expanding into?

You misunderstand what the term 'expanding' refers to in this context. I don't blame you - it is a difficult concept to understand. We can discuss this topic, but I need to know what level physics have you taken and what are you comfortable with, so I can explain things appropriately.


There is nothing rational about any of this, hence can't be explained in a manner that makes sense.

That's simply not true. You may believe there's nothing rational in any of this. But, as we've established, beliefs don't carry a whole lot of weight.


The definition of infinite is not rational, neither is the term  " an infinite regression" you know the one you like to throw around a lot.

Actually, depending on the context of the use, the definition of infinite can be perfectly rational. For example, there are infinitely many natural numbers. There are also infinitely many real numbers. And, get this, there are more real numbers than there are natural numbers! In mathematical jargon, the natural numbers are countably infinite while the real numbers are uncountably infinite. While concepts such as these can be confusing, they are, I assure you, perfectly rational.

Now, I agree that an infinite regress (please note, it's regress, not regression - there is a difference) is irrational and I've never once proposed that (or supported a solution that advocates) an infinite regress as a solution to anything. So I'm a little confused as to why you would bring this up as an argument against my position?


4. unless you have the answere's you have no choice but to a agree with me that no explanation for the existense of the universe can be explained in a manner the human brain can grasp, so let's agree to disagree,... I don't think so.

That's a ridiculous assertion. So if we can't explain something right now it means that it cannot be explained in a manner than the human brain can grasp? There was a time when lightning couldn't be explained. There was a time when rain couldn't be explained. There was a time when eclipses couldn't be explained. Yet, all those things are now well understood.

You seem to operate under the misconception that it is the job of science to answer every question. That is wrong. It doesn't have to, and it doesn't need to.

OTHstrong

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #185 on: June 19, 2012, 02:54:16 PM »
Surely you can understand that when you said "I did" i took it in a sarcastic manner, anyway you clarified it, so no biggy, what level physic do I have?, that shit is mumbo jumbo to me, I know shit and will be happy to admit it ;),... my field is history.

Now if you keep thinking that an explanation is yet to be determined but you feel it will be a rational one in regards to the origins of space, time, and matter, then feel free to do so, but that shit is weird as fuck and hurts to even think about it, our brains are not capable of reaching this far. You really think there is a rational explanation of what brought matter into existence, or time, space,.... maybe, just maybe there is more to it then your limited rational mind can grasp

Man of Steel

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #186 on: June 19, 2012, 03:06:36 PM »
What is it, exactly, that you believe in? In other words, can you provide a rational, consistent definition of God for us?
I believe that Jesus Christ is the risen Lord and Savior and I believe in my heart that he is the son of God and that he has died for my sins, forgiven me and that I am saved.  I believe that Jesus Christ is a third of the eternal trinity that is the Christian God.  Christ is Son, God in Heaven is Father and that which I am indwelt with is the remaining third in the Holy Spirit.  God is the creator and existed before time and is the same God of the OT and NT and will exist as such today, tomorrow and forever.

Certainly I know this won't suffice for your purposes of definition and consistency, but I'll provide it regardless. 

Man of Steel

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #187 on: June 19, 2012, 03:08:10 PM »
Somewhere in the back of your mind, you have doubts.  Everyone does.  Even the most devout.

I used to, but no longer.  My doubts have been washed away.

OTHstrong

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #188 on: June 19, 2012, 03:10:56 PM »
I believe that Jesus Christ is the risen Lord and Savior and I believe in my heart that he is the son of God and that he has died for my sins, forgiven me and that I am saved.  I believe that Jesus Christ is a third of the eternal trinity that is the Christian God.  Christ is Son, God in Heaven is Father and that which I am indwelt with is the remaining third in the Holy Spirit.  God is the creator and existed before time and is the same God of the OT and NT and will exist as such today, tomorrow and forever.

Certainly I know this won't suffice for your purposes of definition and consistency, but I'll provide it regardless. 
This is exactly what I believe aswell, and a billion people do too, some doctor, some professors, some scientist but of course clearly no one smarter then the getbig crowd  ;)

King Shizzo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #189 on: June 19, 2012, 03:11:32 PM »
I believe that Jesus Christ is the risen Lord and Savior and I believe in my heart that he is the son of God and that he has died for my sins, forgiven me and that I am saved.  I believe that Jesus Christ is a third of the eternal trinity that is the Christian God.  Christ is Son, God in Heaven is Father and that which I am indwelt with is the remaining third in the Holy Spirit.  God is the creator and existed before time and is the same God of the OT and NT and will exist as such today, tomorrow and forever.

Certainly I know this won't suffice for your purposes of definition and consistency, but I'll provide it regardless. 
Do not move to Waco Texas.

Man of Steel

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #190 on: June 19, 2012, 03:13:18 PM »
Do not move to Waco Texas.

David Koresh is long gone.

Marty Champions

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #191 on: June 19, 2012, 03:14:11 PM »
life would really seem pointless if you had strong disbeliefs in god

how can you be happy if you feel life is pointless

worship a god , any god, theorize on his capabilities, he doesnt have to be omnipotent, just beleive in something more intelligent than yourself...
A

OTHstrong

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #192 on: June 19, 2012, 03:15:26 PM »
I used to, but no longer.  My doubts have been washed away.
Or maybe it's the opposite, maybe shizzo has some daubts of his view in the back of his head,... Hey shizzo maybe somewhere in there you believe in God, no? :D

Man of Steel

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #193 on: June 19, 2012, 03:18:06 PM »
Or maybe it's the opposite, maybe shizzo has some daubts of his view in the back of his head,... Hey shizzo maybe somewhere in there you believe in God, no? :D

Well honestly this is exactly what I believe to be true (forgive me if that offends others), but I try and speak to others reserving judgement (as best I'm able LOL) and use myself and my testimony to share with others. 

Marty Champions

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #194 on: June 19, 2012, 03:20:48 PM »
God is real only f/\gs and steroid users dont beleive in god
A

The Ugly

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #195 on: June 19, 2012, 03:21:44 PM »
I really wanted to believe in God over the years, but I finally realized it was bullshit.

OTHstrong

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #196 on: June 19, 2012, 03:24:44 PM »
God is real only f/\gs and steroid users dont beleive in god
Cmon Falcon don't be so cold. I believe in God and yes I juice, in fact 1.5 cc of Test E in my left shoulder, 1.5cc of eq in my right,....like 25 minutes ago, lol ;D

King Shizzo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #197 on: June 19, 2012, 03:25:50 PM »
Or maybe it's the opposite, maybe shizzo has some daubts of his view in the back of his head,... Hey shizzo maybe somewhere in there you believe in God, no? :D
I am not afraid to admit that I have no earthly (keyword) idea what the "truth" is.  All I know is I will live a good life, and if a righteous god does exist he will forgive me at the pearly gates.  

OTHstrong

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #198 on: June 19, 2012, 03:30:06 PM »
I am not afraid to admit that I have no earthly (keyword) idea what the "truth" is.  All I know is I will live a good life, and if a righteous god does exist he will forgive me at the pearly gates.  
Now that is great thinking shizzo, had I judged you based on your other posts I woud've thought you where close minded or had ill-will towards people who believe.

Marty Champions

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #199 on: June 19, 2012, 03:30:23 PM »
Cmon Falcon don't be so cold. I believe in God and yes I juice, in fact 1.5 cc of Test E in my left shoulder, 1.5cc of eq in my right,....like 25 minutes ago, lol ;D
god wouldnt want you to destroy the temple bro.

that juice is only serving your vanity. another bad idea

im sure you discuss this in your head sometimes the validity of your decision
A