Who believes in God?

[El Diablo Blanco]

He said that cause, by necessity, makes the action moral. So, if he needs my car and I refuse to give it to him, according to him since he needs it, it's moral to take it. Since I refuse to give it to him, he has to take it by force - either by beating me up and taking the keys or by breaking a window and hot-wiring it. Either way, he takes my car without my consent. I call that stealing.

I assert that stealing my car is immoral. He says that stealing my car is OK as long as he really needs the car.

Wasn't Christianity spread by the same immoral sin of stealing and using force?  Remember the Crusades?

[avxo]

Wasn't Christianity spread by the same immoral sin of stealing and using force?  Remember the Crusades?

I don't think that's particularly relevant in the context of this discussion.

[OTHstrong]

So if you need my car it's moral for you to steal it. Got it!

sorry bro that's not what the term necessary means in the context that I am using it, so listen carefully, "necessary" the term I am referring to in my meaning to justify a moral act has to be life and death, has to be a true "need" you need water, you need food, you need oxygen, you don't need a car, wow, I have to walk on eggshells with you. 

[avxo]

sorry bro that's not what the term necessary means in the context that I am using it, so listen carefully, "necessary" the term I am referring to in my meaning to justify a moral act has to be life and death, has to be a true "need" you need water, you need food, you need oxygen, you don't need a car, wow, I have to walk on eggshells with you. 

OK. I have food. It's necessary for you to live. You are claiming that your need makes it moral for you to steal my food? Some morality...

[SF1900]

To the OP, just because we don't understand something doesn't mean god exists. Also there is a huge difference IMO between god (if one does exist) and religion. All religions are crap and shams to control people and get power. If god exists which I don't believe, he ain't talking to anyone on earth nor does he care who prays to him.

God of the Gaps Argument.

[slate]

When there is a cause necessity does imply that something is moral. the end doesn't justify the means, however picking the lesser of 2 evils is a good moral decision for those involved, always.

I am sorry but having blue stars essentially means you are not qualified for rational thought. You cant have it both ways

The two things are incompatible. It is a well known fact in GB that a member with blue stars trying to articulate a thought is equivalent  to a jew with a david's star armband standing up to discuss a point of argument in a nazi congress in  1930s Germany

i.e you better remain seated

[garebear]

.

[che]

I believe in religion

[slate]

.

yeah but they went to heavenly bliss, whilst the gays are burning in hell

nothing wrong with children dying young and going to heaven. who the fuck wants to suffer in this shitty world for decades when heaven beckons

i wished i died and went to heaven when i was a kid- and so should u, unless ur with the gays

[garebear]

yeah but they went to heavenly bliss, whilst the gays are burning in hell

nothing wrong with children dying young and going to heaven. who the fuck wants to suffer in this shitty world for decades when heaven beckons

i wished i died and went to heaven when i was a kid- and so should u, unless ur with the gays

Now I'm really confused. Do the pedophile priests go to heaven?

[OTHstrong]

Yet another intelligent poster that somehow 'misunderstands' your meaning and gets a lecture on the nature of meaning from you. Hmm, is this a coincidence? Really, it's ok if this isn't your first language; your terrible grammar and form is forgivable if this is the case. Is it?

sue me 

[Radical Plato]

So if you need my car it's moral for you to steal it. Got it!

Is it theft to say you own it in the first place? The apple tree doesn't discriminate, the apples are for everyone!

[Radical Plato]

Now I'm really confused. Do the pedophile priests go to heaven?

Yes, the are in charge of Heavens day-care centre!  Nobody's upset though, cause there all in Heaven!

[avxo]

Is it theft to say you own it in the first place? The apple tree doesn't discriminate, the apples are for everyone!

Well, let's see... I paid for it for the company that manufactured it and, I can exercise all the legal hallmarks of ownership over said vehicle. Yes, I'm pretty sure I own it. And no, I'm pretty sure saying that I own something I own isn't theft, unless something happened while I was asleep and this is actually Bizarro World.

[Radical Plato]

Well, let's see... I paid for it for the company that manufactured it and, I can exercise all the legal hallmarks of ownership over said vehicle. Yes, I'm pretty sure I own it. And no, I'm pretty sure saying that I own something I own isn't theft, unless something happened while I was asleep and this is actually Bizarro World.

I think you miss the point - all private property laws are theft, as they take what is given to humans by nature and place it in the hands of the greedy - personally, it seems an obscene waste of resources to own anything, like the fact my car is used for 5% of the day, and then left to waste away when it is obvious that others could benefit from the sharing of that resource.  You have just been brainwashed to think that private property is a normal thing.  Private property is a disgusting concept obviously kept going by those who have a desire for control and power over others - it is a fear based concept, that is anti sharing - essentially it's just more English Bullshit created in the name of civilisation, when in fact the so called civilised world commit the most horrendous of atrocities! What Civilisation calls civility - is just EVIL in disguise!

“…But as a matter of fact, my dear More, to tell you what I really think, as long as you have private property, and as long as cash money is the measure of all things, it is really not possible for a nation to be governed justly or happily.  For justice cannot exist where all the best things in life are held by the worst citizens; nor can anyone be happy where property is limited to a few, since those few are always uneasy and the many are utterly wretched.”  –Sir Thomas More, Utopia, 1515.

[syntaxmachine]

I think you miss the point - all private property laws are theft, as they take what is given to humans by nature and place it in the hands of the greedy - personally, it seems an obscene waste of resources to own anything, like the fact my car is used for 5% of the day, and then left to waste away when it is obvious that others could benefit from the sharing of that resource.  You have just been brainwashed to think that private property is a normal thing.  Private property is a disgusting concept obviously kept going by those who have a desire for control and power over others - it is a fear based concept, that is anti sharing - essentially it's just more English Bullshit created in the name of civilisation, when in fact the so called civilised world commit the most horrendous of atrocities! What Civilisation calls civility - is just EVIL in disguise!

“…But as a matter of fact, my dear More, to tell you what I really think, as long as you have private property, and as long as cash money is the measure of all things, it is really not possible for a nation to be governed justly or happily.  For justice cannot exist where all the best things in life are held by the worst citizens; nor can anyone be happy where property is limited to a few, since those few are always uneasy and the many are utterly wretched.”  –Sir Thomas More, Utopia, 1515.

You are so funny, man. You're a one-trick pony with your 'everyone but me is brainwashed, the elite control everything, all popular Western institutions are bad' schtick. You are like that that annoying girl present in every freshman class at university who makes disparaging remarks about the 'system' and its evils and favors socialism without realizing just how dumb and naive she really is.

Here is the best part: you are living in a first-world society and accruing all the benefits of these institutions. The property you own, police force  that keeps you from getting robbed, roads you travel on, healthcare you receive, and education you've acquired, are all a part of this evil system. If it's so bad then relinquish these things buy a one-way ticket to Tibet or Nepal, places where you can meditate all day and live as a serf.

Finally, if your favorite conspiracy theories are true (unsurprisingly, you still haven't provided a single shred of evidence for any of them), then you are worse than the rest of us because you possess the truth and yet are doing literally nothing about it while simultaneously drawing the above-mentioned benefits from the system. 9/11 was an inside job? What are you going to do about it? Evil bankers run the world and are responsible for everything bad that happens? What are you going to do about it? Western society is inherently injust? What are you going to do about it?

If you really believe all these horrendous abuses are occurring, then you need to do something about it - the only response to these terrible crimes. "Put up or shut up," because otherwise you'll be just as complicit as the rest of us. I look forward to hearing about your new plans of action (complaining on bodybuilding forums doesn't count).

[OTHstrong]

You are so funny, man. You're a one-trick pony with your 'everyone but me is brainwashed, the elite control everything, all popular Western institutions are bad' schtick. You are like that that annoying girl present in every freshman class at university who makes disparaging remarks about the 'system' and its evils and favors socialism without realizing just how dumb and naive she really is.

Here is the best part: you are living in a first-world society and accruing all the benefits of these institutions. The property you own, police force  that keeps you from getting robbed, roads you travel on, healthcare you receive, and education you've acquired, are all a part of this evil system. If it's so bad then relinquish these things buy a one-way ticket to Tibet or Nepal, places where you can meditate all day and live as a serf.

Finally, if your favorite conspiracy theories are true (unsurprisingly, you still haven't provided a single shred of evidence for any of them), then you are worse than the rest of us because you possess the truth and yet are doing literally nothing about it while simultaneously drawing the above-mentioned benefits from the system. 9/11 was an inside job? What are you going to do about it? Evil bankers run the world and are responsible for everything bad that happens? What are you going to do about it? Western society is inherently injust? What are you going to do about it?

If you really believe all these horrendous abuses are occurring, then you need to do something about it - the only response to these terrible crimes. "Put up or shut up," because otherwise you'll be just as complicit as the rest of us. I look forward to hearing about your new plans of action (complaining on bodybuilding forums doesn't count).

WOW, great fucken post, brother I solute you..... E-kul's problem is he has no idea of the world's history of war and battles, if he did he would know that the era we are living in is paradise, sunshine and flowers, never since the beginning of time has their been a time with this amount of peace in the world, never, enjoy it while it last cause something may come very soon.

Oh BTW your "presumption" is wrong.....Spanish is my first language,.. 

[Radical Plato]

You are so funny, man. You're a one-trick pony with your 'everyone but me is brainwashed, the elite control everything, all popular Western institutions are bad' schtick. You are like that that annoying girl present in every freshman class at university who makes disparaging remarks about the 'system' and its evils and favors socialism without realizing just how dumb and naive she really is.

Here is the best part: you are living in a first-world society and accruing all the benefits of these institutions. The property you own, police force  that keeps you from getting robbed, roads you travel on, healthcare you receive, and education you've acquired, are all a part of this evil system. If it's so bad then relinquish these things buy a one-way ticket to Tibet or Nepal, places where you can meditate all day and live as a serf.

Finally, if your favorite conspiracy theories are true (unsurprisingly, you still haven't provided a single shred of evidence for any of them), then you are worse than the rest of us because you possess the truth and yet are doing literally nothing about it while simultaneously drawing the above-mentioned benefits from the system. 9/11 was an inside job? What are you going to do about it? Evil bankers run the world and are responsible for everything bad that happens? What are you going to do about it? Western society is inherently injust? What are you going to do about it?

If you really believe all these horrendous abuses are occurring, then you need to do something about it - the only response to these terrible crimes. "Put up or shut up," because otherwise you'll be just as complicit as the rest of us. I look forward to hearing about your new plans of action (complaining on bodybuilding forums doesn't count).

You really are a fool, the very things you say I have benefited from have been a form of torture to me, that is why I sought the truth! I have denounced property, and own very little, I avoid the health care system like the plague as I care for my health, The Police are EVIL and I would NEVER, and I mean under no circumstances call them, as I care about my safety and the Education I acquired was just indoctrination, it took me years to shake that shit off, and I resent the Public Schooling system deeply. And the fact you think Tibet is a place where Monks meditate all day just shows how little education you have.  Tibet has been brutally occupied for the last 60 years by the Chinese, committing genocide on the Tibetan people, for the Tibetans the situation has become so oppressed and unbearable they regularly burn themselves to death in Public.  TIBET is a living HELL for both the Chinese and the Tibetans! far from some spiritual haven!  I also participate in demonstrations and am a member of certain movements close to my heart.  I have no interest in fleeing from the Country I was born, I prefer to stay and fight the good fight, like any decent human being should be forced from his land because he cares about peace, justice and freedom.  I stay to fuck with those arseholes, like yourself, who cant stand an opposing view, generally a view that abhors misuse of power, murder and rape and then calls it goodness!  And talking about it is the solution, it is the fact that people stand idly by, say nothing while an Elitist System murders the third world and then tells it's people its for there own good.  Everyone I speak too gets it, I will not die a closed minded, ignorant arsehole who chased pussy, money or fame.  Also, I fuck with the Government in my own way!  Not all of us are unskilled braindead idiots! But that is all I can say on the matter!

[Radical Plato]

WOW, great fucken post, brother I solute you..... E-kul's problem is he has no idea of the world's history of war and battles, if he did he would know that the era we are living in is paradise, sunshine and flowers, never since the beginning of time has their been a time with this amount of peace in the world, never, enjoy it while it last cause something may come very soon.

Oh BTW your "presumption" is wrong.....Spanish is my first language,..  

Like I said, brainwashing and indoctrination are incredibly powerful!  There hasn't been very little peace in history, the world has been perpetually at war, and the bodycount is higher now than ever before - once again, only someone who was brainwashed would believe this is a peaceful time in the world - Man The US Government really knows how to keep its citizens uninformed - if the killing of millions of innocent civilians over the past century is considered paradise, you can stick that dystopia up your arse.  People can call me what they like, all I care about is the truth, and you guys are so far from it, you will never know, because your indoctrination teaches you to ignore dissent and opposing opinions, the average person is so afraid of the truth it isn't funny!  A citizens imagination is literally squashed by the age 7, this is evident in the adult population who have trouble imagining the suffering of others, especially the suffering that they themselves have caused by support of there murderous politicians.  The very fact you make fun of ideAS that aren't like your own is part of your conditioning - you are conditioned to try and bring your fellow citizens into line (so to speak) when they speak of dissenting views or ideas that seem way out to your small minds!  But for those who are free, your attempts of abuse are laughed at, for our minds are free!

[El Diablo Blanco]

BAAAAAAAA.  Spoken like a sheep caught in the system.

You are so funny, man. You're a one-trick pony with your 'everyone but me is brainwashed, the elite control everything, all popular Western institutions are bad' schtick. You are like that that annoying girl present in every freshman class at university who makes disparaging remarks about the 'system' and its evils and favors socialism without realizing just how dumb and naive she really is.

Here is the best part: you are living in a first-world society and accruing all the benefits of these institutions. The property you own, police force  that keeps you from getting robbed, roads you travel on, healthcare you receive, and education you've acquired, are all a part of this evil system. If it's so bad then relinquish these things buy a one-way ticket to Tibet or Nepal, places where you can meditate all day and live as a serf.

Finally, if your favorite conspiracy theories are true (unsurprisingly, you still haven't provided a single shred of evidence for any of them), then you are worse than the rest of us because you possess the truth and yet are doing literally nothing about it while simultaneously drawing the above-mentioned benefits from the system. 9/11 was an inside job? What are you going to do about it? Evil bankers run the world and are responsible for everything bad that happens? What are you going to do about it? Western society is inherently injust? What are you going to do about it?

If you really believe all these horrendous abuses are occurring, then you need to do something about it - the only response to these terrible crimes. "Put up or shut up," because otherwise you'll be just as complicit as the rest of us. I look forward to hearing about your new plans of action (complaining on bodybuilding forums doesn't count).

[Tito24]

[OTHstrong]

Who said anything about the last 100 years, I am talking about today, this generation and the last 30 years, you are forgetting there are 7 billion people alive , the government isn't going to operate smoothly obviously there are hidden agendas and conspiracies, there always has been but so fucken what it is keeping us at peace right now, the most peaceful time the world has ever known, bro go study your history every nation including the US had mandatory military recruitment, imagine your son just turned 17 and got sent somewhere to get his head chopped off, where are the bodies the governments are killing, where are all these rapes you speak of, your a fundamentalist that has been brain washed, bro the numbers don't lie, and they are down right now so obviously the powers that be are doing something right. Oh and just so you know the times are so peaceful that my nephew has been trying to join the military for 2 years and has been turned down cause the infantry, armor division, or artillery is not hiring.

[The_Punisher]

find yourself in an airplane plunging down into the ocean where everyone is screaming for their lives and you'll find out if you really believe in God

[Tito24]

jefferson airplane

[Radical Plato]

Who said anything about the last 100 years, I am talking about today, this generation and the last 30 years, you are forgetting there are 7 billion people alive , the government isn't going to operate smoothly obviously there are hidden agendas and conspiracies, there always has been but so fucken what it is keeping us at peace right now, the most peaceful time the world has ever known, bro go study your history every nation including the US had mandatory military recruitment, imagine your son just turned 17 and got sent somewhere to get his head chopped off, where are the bodies the governments are killing, where are all these rapes you speak of, your a fundamentalist that has been brain washed, bro the numbers don't lie, and they are down right now so obviously the powers that be are doing something right. Oh and just so you know the times are so peaceful that my nephew has been trying to join the military for 2 years and has been turned down cause the infantry, armor division, or artillery is not hiring.

Where do you want me to start, the ORB puts the bodycount in IRAQ at over ONE MILLION, and that's just taken from a four year period - ONE MILLION - and you act like that is nothing - As a result of attempted murders and death threats 2 million Iraqis have left Iraq - do you really think your government is going to tell its people that they are murdering raping thugs, of course not, they are going to force feed there citiZens propaganda and outright lies, as the government knows there citizens are stupid enough to believe it! (Thats because your Government keeps you deliberately ignorant and ill informed)  To think that US Soldiers aren't raping women and children is NAIVE! Shame on You! Maybe you could start your research with The Mahmudiyah killings - THE gang-rape and murder of a 14-year-old IRAQ girl by U.S. troops occurred on March 12, 2006 - if your mind begins to open after that - I suggest you study Noam Chomsky - he isn't considered the greatest Intellectual alive today for no reason!

For those who enjoy the Paradise that is THE US of A - here is why the rest of the world will rejoice when the inevitable downfall occurs!

Americas Murder Count  over the last 70 years! The lifespan of the average male (give or take)

1940s - nuked Japan.
Death toll: 145,000 to date in Nagasaki, 250,000 in Hiroshima

1947-49 - U.S. helps command extreme-right Greece party in Civil War.
Death toll: about 70,000 contributed by US-backed forces

1948-54 - CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion in Philippines.
Death toll: about 11,000

1950 - Independence movement crushed in Ponce, Puerto Rico
Death toll: conservative historians estimated about 8,000 peasants

1950-53 - Korean War
Death toll: about 1,776,000

1952 - CIA overthrows Democracy in Iran, installs Shah
Death toll: about 20,000

1954 - CIA directs invasion of Guatemala after new Democracy there nationalized U.S.-occupied lands
Death toll: about 140,000 missing and dead

1958 - In Lebanon, marine occupation against rebels
Death toll: about 2,000

1960-75+ - Vietnam War including Cambodia and Laos
Death toll: about 4,502,000 including civilians and resulting famines (conservative estimates)

1961 - Cuba's Bay of Pigs Invasion fails
Death toll: about 4,000

1963 - In Iraq, CIA organizes coup against President and agrees to back formerly exiled Saddam
Death toll: about 7,000 including civilians

1964 - In Panama, troops kill protesters against US-owned canal
Death toll: about 1,000

1965 - CIA assists Indonesian coup
Death toll: about 900,000

1966 - Troops and bombers threaten pro-communist parties in Dominican Republic
Death toll: about 3,000

1966-96 - Green berets in Guatemala against rebels, US backs pro-American forces in country until 1996
Death toll: about 200,000

1970 - Directs marine invasion of Oman
Death toll: about 2,000

1973 - CIA directs coup to oust elected Marxist president in Chile
Death toll: 30,000... 3,000 later disappeared under US-installed dictator

1976-92 - CIA assists South-African rebels in Angola
Death toll: median estimate at 550,000

1981-90 - CIA directs Contra invasions in Nicaragua
Death toll: median estimate at 30,000

1982-84 - Marines expel Lebanese rebels, aided by Israel
Death toll: 40,000

1987-88 - US intervenes for Iraq against Iran
Death toll: about 150,000 during time-frame, 100,000 during Desert Storm, 350,000 from resulting famine

1989 - US invades to oust CIA-installed Panamanian government gone rouge
Death toll: 2,000

1992-94 - US-led occupation of Somalia during civil war
Death toll: 50,000 in combat, 300,000 by starvation

2001+ - US Occupies Afghanistan
Death toll: 120,000 including civilians and combatants and resulting Opium Wars

2003+ - Iraqi War
Death toll: 665,000 also by starvation, displacement


TOTAL: 10,431,000

And that doesn't even include POWs, classified information, and WW2 pre-nuke!