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Author Topic: Islam and womens rights  (Read 11867 times)
garebear
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« Reply #125 on: January 21, 2013, 11:26:23 PM »

its not Islam, its the people and their culture.

I agree, in many muslims contries they opress there women, dont let them get educated, forced marriages ..ect. BUT that simply isnt what islam says, its the culture, that causes them to do that.


It is not simply justified by sharia law, it IS sharia law.
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« Reply #126 on: January 21, 2013, 11:33:34 PM »

It is not simply justified by sharia law, it IS sharia law.

what do you mean? give me an example.
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« Reply #127 on: March 11, 2013, 12:05:27 PM »

My question is in regards to the righteous, muslim women in paradise.   We all hear the cliche comments about "the virgins in paradise", but it's true that the righteous muslim men will enter paradise and be pleasured by voluptuous, chaste maidens.  Women are not promised to be pleasured by numerous young men (can't confirm this though).  

That said, what will the equally righteous muslim women receive in paradise that the men will not?  
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« Reply #128 on: March 11, 2013, 12:22:58 PM »

Another item I was curious about pertains to Surah 4:34 in which men are given the right to "beat / lightly beat / scourge / strike" their wives in a specific context.   Different terms are used for different translations of the Quran so I included them all here; although, the definitions are wide-ranging so they mean different things.  Let's just go with least severe of terms and refer to "lightly beat" in this case.   I understand that some Islamic theologians reference the "light beating" as a gentle, percussive tapping of the women that is unoffensive and painless, but I couldn't find a translation of the Quran that indicated a use of the term "tapping" so I use the "light beating" for consistency.

Now, in this instance my focus is not about the act of men lightly beating their wives given a specific context.  What I question is whether equal muslim women have the right to lightly beat their muslim husbands in a specifically defined setting of their own?  
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« Reply #129 on: March 11, 2013, 12:32:01 PM »

I guess another question I have pertains to polygamy in Islam and women's right therein.   The Quran indicates that men have the divine right to marry up to four muslim wives, but it's understood that many muslim men today are simply in monogamous marriages and that's fine as well.  Islamic theologians also note the vast population of women as compared to men and that women need the protection of muslim men hence the act of polygamy to afford them protection.

In this case my question isn't about the right of muslim men to engage in polygamy with four muslim women (that's established).  What I question is whether muslim women can engage in polygamy with four muslim men?  I haven't come across any verses yet and I was curious.
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« Reply #130 on: March 11, 2013, 12:46:46 PM »

Ok LOL, last question and this on pertains to Surah 4:11.  In this case the distribution of inheritance between male and female children is unequal and wondered why that is?  I considered that perhaps it's because men will/do support families of their own and therefore are given a larger inheritance because of that?  Still, not all muslim women are married and would seem that an equal portion of inheritance could greatly help establish their own position (especially if not married).  

Again, questioning why muslim females receive less inheritance than the muslim males from their parents?

I apologize for the question overload LOL, but I thought I'd ask the experts!
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« Reply #131 on: March 11, 2013, 01:06:10 PM »

It is not simply justified by sharia law, it IS sharia law.

Sorry but you clearly don't know what you're talking about. What is Shariah law is that men who rape are to be executed for rape. Women are to be protected. So that's shari'ah law. But women to be 'raped' as justified? No that's just your own sick imagination.
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« Reply #132 on: March 11, 2013, 01:10:11 PM »

My question is in regards to the righteous, muslim women in paradise.   We all hear the cliche comments about "the virgins in paradise", but it's true that the righteous muslim men will enter paradise and be pleasured by voluptuous, chaste maidens.  Women are not promised to be pleasured by numerous young men (can't confirm this though).  

That said, what will the equally righteous muslim women receive in paradise that the men will not?  

Yes one of the many promises to men is that they will have beautiful wives. That their worldly wives will be made queens of heaven and that they may get new wives while those who had no wives will certainly be given wives as described. What is wrong with a woman that is attractive, beautiful, chaste, pure? The men who get new wives their wives of this world will be queens and above those women that they may get in heaven.

On the other hand no women are not promised 'many men' but if they did not have a husband they will be given a pious husband.

There is a difference between men and women. We are equal in faith and piety, but not equal. This is known by atheists and all believers alike.

Men are more likely enticed and desiring of women than woman are of men. How often do you hear of women boasting and trolling lets say even on an internet forum about men? And how often do you hear about guys ranting about and obsessing over different women? This forum is a fine example.

What awaits us in paradise will be equitable to what we deserve and what God has prepared for us. It is still nothing like this world.

For example yes there will be sex in heaven, but it will not be smelly, it will not be icky, it will be different.

Absolute equity is a failed concept. Not everyone or everything is equal this is a fact. Communism failed my friend as it is against human nature and how God created us.
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« Reply #133 on: March 11, 2013, 01:13:12 PM »

Another item I was curious about pertains to Surah 4:34 in which men are given the right to "beat / lightly beat / scourge / strike" their wives in a specific context.   Different terms are used for different translations of the Quran so I included them all here; although, the definitions are wide-ranging so they mean different things.  Let's just go with least severe of terms and refer to "lightly beat" in this case.   I understand that some Islamic theologians reference the "light beating" as a gentle, percussive tapping of the women that is unoffensive and painless, but I couldn't find a translation of the Quran that indicated a use of the term "tapping" so I use the "light beating" for consistency.

Now, in this instance my focus is not about the act of men lightly beating their wives given a specific context.  What I question is whether equal muslim women have the right to lightly beat their muslim husbands in a specifically defined setting of their own?  

The verdict on this matter is pertaining to unchastity and disobedience. However the actual 'means' is as using something as a miswak a toothbrush. What certain non muslims have equated is with literal beatings and the words used are not 'beating' or 'light beating' but are often translated like that.

The prophet (pbuh) hated men who beat their wives and there's a number of narrations on the subject them being condemned, such men being refused as marriage material, being scrutinized for beating their wives and then sleeping with them, etc...

Abuse of women and domestic violence is against fundemental Islamic teachings and is more so to do with culture and behaviour of individuals.
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« Reply #134 on: March 11, 2013, 01:18:59 PM »

Ok LOL, last question and this on pertains to Surah 4:11.  In this case the distribution of inheritance between male and female children is unequal and wondered why that is?  I considered that perhaps it's because men will/do support families of their own and therefore are given a larger inheritance because of that?  Still, not all muslim women are married and would seem that an equal portion of inheritance could greatly help establish their own position (especially if not married).  

Again, questioning why muslim females receive less inheritance than the muslim males from their parents?

I apologize for the question overload LOL, but I thought I'd ask the experts!

It's quite simple to explain.

Women marry and they are to be taken care of by their husbands. While males marry and have to take care of their wives. The financial burden is more on a man than on a woman.

Do you think 50:50 is truly fair? The US is a fine example. Women who marry for money, get a kid, divorce their millionaire husband take 50% of their wealth and the husband ends up potentially broke etc... while the women did not lift a finger in his business venture or whatever hard work he did.

Absolute equity is not justice.

Men and women should be married and not deliberately chose to be single for the rest of their lives. If they so choose to be unmarried and screw around yes, probably they will be end up lonely and broke. Why not follow divine guidance and find peace and comfort in marriage? The same goes for male and female.

Family values are important in Islam and I can see how this can be a problem for those that oppose such values.
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« Reply #135 on: March 11, 2013, 01:26:49 PM »

I guess another question I have pertains to polygamy in Islam and women's right therein.   The Quran indicates that men have the divine right to marry up to four muslim wives, but it's understood that many muslim men today are simply in monogamous marriages and that's fine as well.  Islamic theologians also note the vast population of women as compared to men and that women need the protection of muslim men hence the act of polygamy to afford them protection.

In this case my question isn't about the right of muslim men to engage in polygamy with four muslim women (that's established).  What I question is whether muslim women can engage in polygamy with four muslim men?  I haven't come across any verses yet and I was curious.


It's quite simple really.

Can you determine who the father is of a woman who sleeps around without dna testing?

While if you have one husband and more than one wife, you will certainly know who the father and mother are.

No Islam does not permit women to have 'more than one man'. It goes against any sort of family principle.

Lastly Islam is the only religion that limits marriage to 4 women and actually says if you cannot do justice to them then ONLY marry one. No other religion actually limits marriage.

The bible on the other hand has no set limit, it is only because of British secular common law that you do not marry more than one. Traditionally Christians and Jews married multiple women too. In fact the prophets as mentioned in the bible married many wives.  Whether it was Abraham or David or Solomon peace be upon them all, etc...
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« Reply #136 on: March 11, 2013, 01:50:36 PM »

And while someone has bumped this thread:





<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK0KrP3TCqk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK0KrP3TCqk</a>

In Christianity it was debated whether a woman even has a soul or if she is even a human or a devil. This was recent history. Such hypocricy to be attacking Islam with falseities when in the christian western world women were not allowed to even vote or own property or have a business or divorce, etc... up until barely the last century.

Islam gave all those rights to women 1400 years ago and in fact Muhammad (pbuh) said in some cases women can surpass men. We are equal in faith, but we are different. Islam recognizes our human nature and differences.

The fact that muslim countries are not ruled by Islam and in fact secular and civil laws, by ignorant people who follow cultural traditions and tribal customs does not mean that is Islam's failure but rather the people's failure by not obeying Islam.

All the domestic abuse, women's rights being denied have far more to do with people not following Islam than the other way around.
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« Reply #137 on: March 11, 2013, 05:52:57 PM »


For example yes there will be sex in heaven, but it will not be smelly, it will not be icky, it will be different.

Geez, what a ladies man you must be, if you see sex as smelly and icky.  That's what makes sex great, you must be the worst lay on the planet.  No wonder you became Muslim, you can now justify your shitty performance in the bedroom.
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« Reply #138 on: March 12, 2013, 10:08:40 AM »

The Prophet (sallALLAHu alahi wasallam) said "The most perfect of the believers in faith are thebest of them in morals. And the best among them are those who arebest to their wives." [Ahmad 7354, and Tirmidhi 1162]

The Prophetís beloved wife, Aaíisha, said of her noble husband:
He always helped with the housework and would at times mend his clothes, repair his shoes and sweep the floor. He would milk, protect and feed his animals and do household chores

A great relationship happens when two people truly understand each other and love each other for who they really are. What better example to follow than the example of our beloved Prophet (sallalla hu alahi wasallam).

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« Reply #139 on: March 12, 2013, 02:37:04 PM »

This is Getbig, but in all seriousness I have no problem with Islam or its followers....only with close-minded fanatics, but this applies to all religions.

For instance, look at the Turks or Moslems in Bosnia, they have their religion but are able to live secular lives and drink or go out and do whatever they want like a Westerner, yet still respect their religion and culture. Their religion is their own business.

I believe for all religions, this is a good model.


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« Reply #140 on: March 14, 2013, 08:54:05 AM »

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« Reply #141 on: July 24, 2013, 05:28:56 PM »

Let us speak for ourselves: five women's experiences of Islamophobic attacks
Muslim women and their clothes, their relationships with men and their place in British society are written and talked about and discussed and debated to death - but rarely are Muslim women included in those discussions themselves. In an attempt to correct this, Huma Qureshi asks five women to share their experiences.

BY HUMA QURESHI PUBLISHED 24 JULY 2013 11:56


Muslim women arrive at the Regent's Park Mosque in London on the Eid Al-Fitr day in August 2012. Photograph: Getty Images

What does it feel like to have your hijab yanked off your head by a man shouting abuse at you? Or to be chased down the street, shouted, sworn or spat at because what you are wearing identifies your beliefs?

These are examples of what are described as anti-Muslim incidents specifically against women. Tell Mama, the government-backed organisation which records anti-Muslim behaviour, has said Islamophobic attacks against women have increased in the aftermath of the brutal killing of Drummer Lee Rigby in Woolwich in May. It says approximately 70 per cent of the calls it received since then have come from women. Of reported street attacks, 75 per cent have been against Muslim women wearing Islamic dress.

For Andrew Gilligan, who has criticised Tell Mamaís statistics in the Telegraph and accused it of exaggerating Islamophobia, incidents such as ďhijab yankingĒ are ďat the lower level of seriousnessĒ because they do not result in physical injury. Nothing has been as critical as the latest incident in France, where a pregnant Muslim woman miscarried last week after two men attacked her, but to entirely dismiss what some women have been reporting in the UK is still deeply undermining to those who have found themselves at the receiving end of unprovoked assault, physical or verbal, simply because of their faith.

Muslim women and their clothes, their relationships with men and their place in British society are written and talked about and discussed and debated to death - but rarely are Muslim women included in those discussions themselves. Thatís why I contacted five Muslim women who have experienced varying degrees of anti-Muslim incidents to find out how it has affected them.

Some have been terrified. Others say things are not bad. Some wear the hijab, some donít. Most asked to be anonymous because they donít want their family or jobs to be affected by what they say. All are horrified by Drummer Lee Rigbyís murder. None claim their experiences are representative of Muslim women as a whole - if anything, they are tired of being seen as a homogenous group.

Finally, all agree the media doesnít help. ďNo one ever lets us speak for ourselves,Ē one woman told me. Some feel silenced and ignored by the press, not just because of their religion, but because of their gender too. By sharing their views, they hope they will be heard and not disregarded as statistics that some consider to be utterly meaningless. Here are their experiences.

Ayesha
Ayesha, a 32-year-old who works as an IT analyst in London, was verbally abused and followed on a work trip in Manchester, two days after the Woolwich murder.

ďI was going back to my hotel after work meetings. There was a pub down the road from my hotel and as I walked past I heard a group of white men shouting things like ĎOi, Pakií and ĎOi, bin Laden.í I quickened my pace because I didnít want anything to kick off. I heard footsteps catching up with me. Then I felt my headscarf pulled back and something tugging on my abaya. At that point, I just ran to my hotel, told the receptionist what had happened and asked him to make sure the men didnít come in. Then I noticed a slit in my abaya - it had been cut. Thatís when I got really scared, because I realised the man who followed me had something sharp in his hands. I couldnít stop wondering, ĎWhat if?í I was shaking. I felt incredibly vulnerable. I just locked myself in my hotel room. Now, I worry about my mum going out on her own, and there have been days Iíve been scared to take the tube.

"Ten years ago, I was set upon by eight youths near my university campus. They called me a terrorist and beat me up. My mistake was to fight back; then they urinated on me. They left laughing. I couldnít stop crying. The university reported it to the police, but they didnít find them.

"As a visible Muslim woman, I know Iím an easy target. But itís cowardly to pick on a woman just because of what she is wearing. Itís not just Islamophobia - this is sexism, too. These men saw me as a weak target, and tried to assert their masculinity over me. I wish people could understand you canít blanket an entire faith just because of a few  individuals who had nothing to do with us.Ē

Leila
Leila is a 28-year-old who lives in Oxford. She worked as an accountant before becoming a full time mum to two young children.

ďI was walking home with my two kids in their pushchair through the park when a white man on his bike came towards me, looked at me, stopped and spat first at me and then at my children. I felt angry, embarrassed, anxious and scared. But more than anything, I felt shock. What upset me more was that he didnít just spit at me, but my children too. I knew I had to get home, and as soon as I got in, I phoned my husband. Then I called Tell Mama. I didnít call the police because, well, what would they do?

"This happened the day after the soldier was killed in Woolwich. Since then, Iíve been nervous to go out. I feel people looking at me though I donít know if Iím being paranoid. This isnít the first time something like this has happened. Iíve been chased off a bus by three women who threatened to beat me up because of my hijab. Everyday I heard comments against me on the bus. I was terrified by what they said theyíd do and was too scared to go out on my own. Eventually we moved house because of the threats.

"I take my children to a playgroup in a church every week, and Iíve never even taken them to a mosque. Itís upsetting that just because I wear a headscarf, they might get treated differently. I blame the media. It portrays a distorted image of Islam and makes out all of us are bad. I hope things change for my kids.Ē

Sophia Ditta
Sophia is 34 and lives in Bradford with her family. Four severed pigs heads were left outside her home.

ďA fortnight ago, my dad found a pigís head by our front door. He called the police to report it. I went into the garden to see if there was anything else, and there was another pigís head. I smelt it before I saw it. It was foul. The police told us to Ďpreserveí them so we kept them under bags overnight until they could come round. They asked if there had been anything else, and I suddenly remembered two bags in the bushes while Iíd been gardening two weeks before. At the time, they were too heavy for me to lift and I never got round to it. So we went into the garden and found two more pigs heads in the bags, badly decomposed. They had been there a month - since just after the Woolwich attack. They smelt foul.

"Iíve never suffered any discrimination. Weíre not the most devout Muslims, we donít really go to the mosque and I donít wear a headscarf. You wouldnít be able to tell weíre Muslim. I see this as racism not Islamophobia, because no matter how Western we are, or how integrated into society we are, some people donít see us as British or English. I think this was someone jumping on an EDL bandwagon. They tried to scare us, but it didnít work. It hasnít stopped me or my mum from doing anything. Iím not offended by a pig, though I am offended by the foul smell.

"However, I reported it to Tell Mama, because although the police were sympathetic, they told us it was an isolated hate incident and nothing like that had happened in our area before. But I later told my neighbour who is also Muslim. He had found a pigís head on his property a month ago too, and reported it to the police then. So it just shows they didnít listen.Ē

Mehnaz
Mehnaz is originally from the UAE and was living in America until three years ago, when she came to England with her husband and three children to study for her PhD.

ďI was dropping my eldest daughter off at school and was reversing the car when another car blocked us in. At first, I thought I was in the way, so I was ready to apologise but then I saw the two young men in the car were screaming and shouting, pointing at me and gesturing at my headscarf in a very aggressive and threatening way. I was just holding my breath all the time. I felt so worried, and all I kept thinking was ĎPlease donít get out of your car.íĒ I managed to turn the car around and moved, but I was really scared of what they might do. I didnít want my children to see. It really unsettled me.

"Iím wondering whether this sort of behaviour will be a long-term thing or whether it will go away. My husband and I lived in the States, and even after 9/11, I never felt threatened. The media coverage of Muslims in Britain makes it worse - after the Woolwich murder, the media was so intensely focused on Muslims that I can see why it made people so angry, even though it had nothing to do with us. But we are not all bad, we are well-educated people who pay our taxes and contribute to the economy. Right now, we need an environment that fosters peace rather than hatred and I donít think the media is helping.Ē

Ola Ashi
Ola is a 21-year-old psychology student who was born and brought up in Cardiff. Her parents are from Palestine.

ďBecause I wear hijab, I always feel slightly more vulnerable. Itís always at the back of my mind that something might happen because of it - but it definitely doesnít keep me up at night or stop me from living my life.

"In the past, Iíve been followed home and spat at in my car. I often get people calling out ĎPaki go homeí when Iím out jogging. One time I came out my house, and people drove past shouting ĎBNPí. At school I used to get my hijab yanked. Iím not bothered what this is called - whether itís racism or Islamophobia - as long as itís tackled.

"But I also know thatís itís just a minority of people who do this. Muslim people donít like being generalised, and I think itís important we donít generalise non-Muslims too. I have plenty of non-Muslim friends and they completely disagree with this kind of behaviour. On the times when Iíve had to involve the police, like when Iíve been followed or harassed, they were very understanding.

"Since the Woolwich attack, I have felt more concerned but mostly I see people sticking together a lot more. My friends and I, whether non-Muslim or Muslim, text each other to remind each other when thereís an EDL demo going on so we can be safe and stay away.

"The way I see it is I just have to show the best side of Islam that I can. My cousins in Gaza worry everyday about staying alive or being bombed by Israel. All I have to deal with is a few slurs. That puts it in perspective.Ē

Some names have been changed

Source: http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2013/07/let-us-speak-ourselves-five-womens-experiences-islamophobic-attacks
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« Reply #142 on: July 24, 2013, 06:18:45 PM »

I was looking back at old posts and now I think ahmed is the troll. What are you doing on getbig? Lol scru u! i always loved my moderate islamic life you aaaaa holeeee until you .... Scruuu youuu whatever i hate you . All muslim hate all muslim thank to you. Get off the internet lol
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« Reply #143 on: July 29, 2013, 12:33:21 PM »

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« Reply #144 on: July 29, 2013, 03:33:40 PM »

I will stop feeding the troll... I mean ahmed. I have female friends from saudi arabia. And yes moderates. They come to Canada to live the Canadian dream. My friend Aisha does not even wear a hijab. She is hot and has nice hair. And Aisha is from Saudia Arabia. I have much love for Aisha. Anyway... She tells me everything. Like painting the windows black. Women can't leave the house. Men beating women and at the mercy of their husband. She thinks you are silly white boy but she likes white guys so she is attracted to you. Lol but think you are silly and should just relax lol
Oh and Aisha my friend from saudi arabia always liked white guys. She is from a whahabism family and has freedom in Canada. They left for a reason. And like I said she dates for the purpose of marriage but has a thing for white guys. =)

Oh yeah... And not even riding a bike is allowed. Aisha was so happy to even ride a bike when we were kids as women cannot ride bikes. I see all the happy faces on muslim girls here riding bikes because back home Islma is oppression but moderates here allow girls to ride bikes.
I know I said I hate you. But part of me likes you too ahmed lol must be jesus talking. Maybe we can train some time if I ever travel or you travel. Or maybe pray together or something.
If you feel the need to post... Go ahead. Not but one leaf falls from the tree without allah seeing to it or withour the permission of the all mighty allah.
I have to admit... So far I find bible a bore compared it al qur'an. We can all agree that Islam and arabic is by far the most beautiful. Mashallah. But, I wont be swayed by just beauty alone. I just appreciate Islam for it's beauty. And lets be honest... It's the Arabic that makes it beautiful... Christianity is beautiful in Arabic too and the most beautiful in Arabic as arabia is the holy land Smiley
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« Reply #145 on: July 29, 2013, 03:37:23 PM »

Rhino, making up stories about painting windows black in saudi arabia? LMAO. Clearly you're an islamophobe evangelical troll pretending to know about Islam and Muslims who never met a Muslim in his life. Just pathetic.

I know these kind of bs stories are awesome on christian forums to 'increase your faith' in saving people around the world but they are far from reality unless you think reality is foxnews and christian evangelical missionary magazines.

It's evident which religion is truth as you require fraud and made up stories to further your 'missionary' work.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oqcG1Ws5FE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oqcG1Ws5FE</a>

Touched by the spirit of Christ right?

You need fakeness to promote fakeness. Hope that helps.

Pre-islamic Arab culture is barbaric garbage. The same goes for Christian Arabs who beat their wives and daughters. My Christian Iraqi girlfriend (when we moved apart but kept in touch) got the beats for wanting to marry someone her father didn't approve of (both Christian but one family from the north, different tribe vs the south).

The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) hated men who hit their wives and he never hit any of his wives ever. He advised people to not marry such men.. and spoke against them. In fact in the last sermon he emphasized the kind treatment of women. Now why do you think in his LAST SERMON he would pick such a topic if Islam oppresses women? In other words its important to treat women with kindness and respect.

On the other hand Christians up until the recent centuries debated if women have a soul lol.

Your arguments are invalid troll.
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« Reply #146 on: July 29, 2013, 03:38:06 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOLHfIW5hyE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOLHfIW5hyE</a>
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« Reply #147 on: July 31, 2013, 04:33:00 PM »

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Jesus Christ is lord and savior


« Reply #148 on: July 31, 2013, 06:57:17 PM »

What do you want ahmed? I always loved Islam. There are no stories here. If you love Islam too, then I am happy. Smiley
I just got sick and tired of the whole thing. Do you want me to go back to Islam? Why should I? Just to face bull shit and ridicule everyday? I don't face this crap as a Christian so f off already.
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a_ahmed
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Team Nasser


« Reply #149 on: August 01, 2013, 10:52:26 AM »

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