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Author Topic: Islam and womens rights  (Read 10686 times)
avxo
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« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2012, 10:46:54 AM »

Again I can post only a few videos here and there as most Saudis are against being on film. However the point is you are completely ignorant of these people's cultures and are loud as hell about them tens of thousands of miles away.

You even see, in my post, that I readily accept that what you say is true. I just asked a simple yes or no question. One which you couldn't or wouldn't answer. I will ask you again: according to you, some Saudi women actually do want to drive. Can they? Or are they simply not allowed to, at all?

It's a simple "yes" or "no" question. No need for videos. No need for explanations of how you enjoyed your time in Arab countries. Just a one word answer to one simple question:

Can Saudi women who want to drive do so? Or are they simply not allowed to, at all?
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« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2012, 10:49:34 AM »

No in saudi they do not, but again it is cultural and you are completely misunderstanding the culture. It's ironic that you have a problem with another culture but keep saying no one should be telling you how your culture should be? No one is, but you are the one telling others.

The video illustrates quite well all I said. They have a different culture that you do not understand nor have you spent any time with these people to want to understand.

They generally don't want to cook, drive, etc... and instead rather have maids and have free times for themselves and that's the norm.

In the west who has maids that cook for you, carry your children, or how about limousine drivers? Maybe some rich people? In Arab countries on the other hand even the midddle class and poorer people conduct their lives with these luxuries.
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« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2012, 11:11:16 AM »

No in saudi they do not, but again it is cultural and you are completely misunderstanding the culture.

And that's my point. That in Saudi Arabia some women want to drive, but they are not allowed to. Whether it's because of the culture or something else is irrelevant.


It's ironic that you have a problem with another culture but keep saying no one should be telling you how your culture should be? No one is, but you are the one telling others.

The only thing I'm saying is that I consider the government imposing irrational limits on what people can do, especially on the basis of gender, to be oppresive and stupid.

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« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2012, 12:00:37 PM »

And that's my point. That in Saudi Arabia some women want to drive, but they are not allowed to. Whether it's because of the culture or something else is irrelevant.

The only thing I'm saying is that I consider the government imposing irrational limits on what people can do, especially on the basis of gender, to be oppresive and stupid.



Of course it's relevent!  (In this thread at least) - since the thread title is about Islamic treatment of women, not Saudi government or Arab culture's treatment of women. 
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« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2012, 03:50:30 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NOuEy-rGzU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NOuEy-rGzU</a>
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« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2012, 04:00:38 PM »

Of course it's relevent!  (In this thread at least) - since the thread title is about Islamic treatment of women, not Saudi government or Arab culture's treatment of women. 

Women not allowed to drive in Suadi Arabia?

More evidence of a primitive backward repressive culture who's roots and foundation are Islamic
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« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2012, 05:24:58 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEGeX2SkvtE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEGeX2SkvtE</a>

1 in 3 US army females gets raped by her fellow male equivalents
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« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2012, 07:40:39 PM »

The last video is not normal, that woman is ALLOWED to drive because she has a talent for it, she drives a racecar in some major circuit. Thats the only reason. Nice try though.
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« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2012, 09:53:23 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI85xl4CCR8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI85xl4CCR8</a>
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« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2012, 03:10:36 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r58rUuU0hXU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r58rUuU0hXU</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hRdsZQ8vFI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hRdsZQ8vFI</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sASxeWX9Mmo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sASxeWX9Mmo</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql7YXVWD684" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql7YXVWD684</a>
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« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2012, 03:18:08 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLzhI7rEYqE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLzhI7rEYqE</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsmyzybeMis" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsmyzybeMis</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8IX6Sv_uo4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8IX6Sv_uo4</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQKVxF2fCX4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQKVxF2fCX4</a>

Wake up people, Islam is EVIL.
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« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2012, 03:27:32 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6HEGKUylPs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6HEGKUylPs</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hgKcFXfRA0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hgKcFXfRA0</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhPdkXMIQU4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhPdkXMIQU4</a>
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« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2012, 05:09:10 AM »

Muhammad is reported to have told his men to treat kindly those two weaklings "women and slaves." In general Islam treats women as intellectually, morally, and physically inferior. First comes man, then comes the hermaphrodite (who in Islam has a distinct legal status), and last the woman. Conservative Muslim thinkers have even revived discredited anthropological theories purporting to show that the cranial capacity of women is far smaller than that of a man.

 "Women have less reason and faith" goes one famous hadith. A woman is seen as being in a state of impurity during her menstruation, but this impurity is not limited to her period of menstruation. It is reported that Muhammad had never touched a woman who did not belong to him. When the women who gave him their allegiance asked to shake him by the hand, he replied, "I never touch the hand of women." Further hadiths on this subject:

—Better for a man to be splashed by a pig than for him to brush against the elbow of a woman not permitted him.

—Better to bury an iron needle in the head of one of you than to touch a woman not permitted him.

—He who touches the palm of a woman not legally his will have red-hot embers put in the palm of his hand on Judgment Day.

—Three things can interrupt prayers if they pass in front of someone praying: a black dog, a woman, and an ass.


Liberal Muslims may wish to dismiss these hadiths as inauthentic but what will they say to the Koran which also says:
"Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying on the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched a woman, and ye find not water, then go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands"

more to come on Islam's hatred of Women - stay Tuned...........

Can you give me evidence and references of the hadith that you mentioned?I have never heard them.

You are not credible or a person of good character, no person should ever beleive what you say.

And with the last verse you mentioned, the verse mentions if you use your brain abit more and stop your brainwashing for a minute, is that in islam, when you have sex with your wife, both the women and men need to take a shower.

Doesnt mean in the verse after you touch a girl you need to shower. Its talking about the sexual intercourse. Thasts why the verse mentions that after you have sex, you need to shower to clean and purify yourselves.But if there is no water around, you purify yourself with clean soil which is called "tayammum" in islam.

So the verse is not talking about touching women, but its the intimacy between couples
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« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2012, 05:36:12 AM »

There is in Islam a complete absence of the idea of association, partnership, or companionship between the married couple. The Arabic word for "marriage" is "nikah" which is also the word for "coition," and in contemporary French slang "niquer" Women and Islam means "to fuck." Bousquet's conclusion on the subject of Muslim marriages could be summarized thus: The Muslim marriage is essentially an act by which a woman, often without being consulted, must put herself sexually at the disposition of her husband, if need be next to three other wives and an unlimited number of concubines. She must be ready to be turned out as soon as she ceases to please and never expect a conjugal partnership to arise. 

A wife cannot legitimately ask her husband to satisfy her sexually—she can only demand that she be fed, clothed, and housed, Sexually, the husband is the master of the enjoyment of his wife. The converse is not true. The husband's refusal to make love to his wife is simply considered as a free renunciation of his legitimately acquired sexual rights.

The famous story of the debate over sodomy illustrates further the Muslim attitude toward sex. It appears there were certain men in Muhammad's entourage who "enjoyed their women from front and from behind." Some women asked Muhammad's opinion. Muhammad received the appropriate revelation which is recorded in the Koran sura 2.223: "Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will." Nobody ever thought of consulting the women themselves; they were excluded from the debate.

The wife who refuses her husband is considered insubordinate and the husband has the right to punish her physically, something which is again divinely sanctioned in the Koran

4.34. Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart; and scourge (beat) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.

Religion of peace.......
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« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2012, 12:57:13 PM »

I guess you're in the islamophobia olympics, who can be more ignorant, lying, fraduelent, hateful and vile as possible.

Now I am seriously trying to understand what the hell your father did to you, to make you such a demented person to this day even when you are 40 years old.

I guess you're angry that more women are becoming Muslimahs. Well go ahead and detest it all you want

They want to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will certainly make His light shine forever - even though the disbelievers may dislike this. Surah As-Saff [61:8]
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« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2012, 02:26:19 PM »

There is in Islam a complete absence of the idea of association, partnership, or companionship between the married couple. The Arabic word for "marriage" is "nikah" which is also the word for "coition," and in contemporary French slang "niquer" Women and Islam means "to fuck." Bousquet's conclusion on the subject of Muslim marriages could be summarized thus: The Muslim marriage is essentially an act by which a woman, often without being consulted, must put herself sexually at the disposition of her husband, if need be next to three other wives and an unlimited number of concubines. She must be ready to be turned out as soon as she ceases to please and never expect a conjugal partnership to arise.  

A wife cannot legitimately ask her husband to satisfy her sexually—she can only demand that she be fed, clothed, and housed, Sexually, the husband is the master of the enjoyment of his wife. The converse is not true. The husband's refusal to make love to his wife is simply considered as a free renunciation of his legitimately acquired sexual rights.

The famous story of the debate over sodomy illustrates further the Muslim attitude toward sex. It appears there were certain men in Muhammad's entourage who "enjoyed their women from front and from behind." Some women asked Muhammad's opinion. Muhammad received the appropriate revelation which is recorded in the Koran sura 2.223: "Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will." Nobody ever thought of consulting the women themselves; they were excluded from the debate.

The wife who refuses her husband is considered insubordinate and the husband has the right to punish her physically, something which is again divinely sanctioned in the Koran

4.34. Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart; and scourge (beat) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.

Religion of peace.......


do you even know what your posting when you post?

Again, you are proven your a big fool,

 "enjoyed their women from front and from behind."

What it means that a companion, one companion of prophet mohamed, not a entourage as you claim, came up to prophet Mohamed and said to him, "i am doomed, i am doomed" .The prophet Mohamed said to him "how are you doomed"? The companion said to prophet Mohamed "I had sex with my wife from behind".

What the comapnion meant is that he had sex with his wife doggy style, from behind, and not in her anus, you idiot.

It never implied that he has sex from behind in her anus, but he took her from behind sexually.

Then prophet Mohamed mentions the verse

"Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will."

Meaning you can have sex in any position with your wife, you can go on top, she can go on top, etc, but forbid to have sex anally.

So if you want to post more rubbish e-kul, then be my guest. Its the second time ive corrected you over you blatant rubbish in 24 hrs.
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« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2012, 06:23:33 PM »

Meaning you can have sex in any position with your wife, you can go on top, she can go on top, etc, but forbid to have sex anally.

Why is anal forbidden? After all if the verse is "Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will." It's not "Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will, but not up as the ass!"
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« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2012, 06:55:15 PM »

Why is anal forbidden? After all if the verse is "Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will." It's not "Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will, but not up as the ass!"


Not everything in islam is in the koran, in islam, we also have the prophetic sayings, which are not necessarily in the koran.
For example it doesnt say in the koran about anal sex, but with the prophetic sayings it is different,

for example,

1 – It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The one who has intercourse with his wife in her back passage has disavowed himself of that which was revealed to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).” Narrated by Abu Dawood (3904); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

2 – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah will not look at a man who has intercourse with a woman in her back passage.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (1165); classed as saheeh by Ibn Daqeeq al-‘Eid in al-Ilmaam (2/660) and by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

3 – It was narrated that Khuzaymah ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah is not too shy to tell the truth” three times. “Do not have intercourse with women in their back passages.” Narrated by Ibn Maajah (1924); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.

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« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2012, 09:18:53 PM »

This leads us to female circumcision. In the nineteenth century, it was widespread in Arabia, where "clitoris cutter" was a legitimate profession practiced by old women, and perhaps most other Islamic countries.  According to the Minority Rights Group's Report "Female Genital Mutilation: Proposals for Change," published in 1992, the practice is still followed widely across Western, Saharan, and Eastern Africa,
as well as in Yemen and Oman, by Muslims.  "Tens of millions of girls are affected every year."  Again, female excision is not mentioned in the Koran and learned doctors of theology, when they deign to address the matter, spend very little time on it, simply recommending it as a pious act.

"The procedure varies from mildly painful to gruesome, and can involve the removal of the clitoris and other organs with knives,
broken glass, and razors—but rarely anesthetic. It can lead to severe problems with menstruation, intercourse and childbirth, psychological disturbances and even death." In this gruesome act of "disbudding" of the female are embodied all the Muslim males' fears of female sexuality.
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« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2012, 09:25:19 PM »

On adultery the Koran 24.4 says: "Those that defame honourable women and cannot produce four witnesses shall be given eighty lashes." Of course, Muslim jurists will only accept four male witnesses. These witnesses must declare that they have "seen the parties in the very act of carnal conjunction." Once an accusation of fornication and adultery has been made, the accuser himself or herself risks punishment if he or she does not furnish the necessary legal proofs. Witnesses are in the same situation. If a man were to break into a woman's dormitory and rape half a dozen women, he would risk nothing since there would be no male witnesses. Indeed the victim of a rape would hesitate before going in front of the law, since she would risk being condemned herself and have little chance of obtaining justice. "If the woman's words were sufficient in such cases," explains Judge Zharoor ul Haq of Pakistan, "then no man would be safe."

Women found guilty of fornication were literally locked away against their will,  as the Koran 4.15 says: "Shut them up within their houses till death release them, or God make some way for them." However this was later cancelled and STONING substituted for adultery and one
hundred lashes for fornication.  When a woman is stoned, a hole to receive her is dug as deep as her waist—the Prophet himself seems to have ordered such procedure. It is lawful for a man to kill his wife and her lover if he catches them in the very act.

In the case where a man suspects his wife of adultery or denies the legitimacy of the offspring, his testimony is worth that of four men. Sura 24.6: "If a man accuses his wife but has no witnesses except himself, he shall swear four times by God that his charge is true, calling down upon himself the curse of God Women and Islam,if he is lying. But if his wife swears four times by God that his charge is false and calls down His curse upon herself if it be true, she shall receive no punishment.

Appearances to the contrary, this is not an example of Koranic justice or equality between the sexes. The woman indeed escapes being stoned to death but she remains rejected and loses her right to the dowery and her right to maintenance, whatever the outcome of the trial. A woman does not have the right to charge her husband in a similar manner.

Religion of Peace!
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« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2012, 02:36:03 AM »

To treat women well in order to get to heaven does not make you moral, it makes you self-absorbed.

It's grow up time and you're late.
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« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2012, 11:39:46 AM »

Not everything in islam is in the koran, in islam, we also have the prophetic sayings, which are not necessarily in the koran.
For example it doesnt say in the koran about anal sex, but with the prophetic sayings it is different,

for example,

1 – It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The one who has intercourse with his wife in her back passage has disavowed himself of that which was revealed to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).” Narrated by Abu Dawood (3904); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

2 – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah will not look at a man who has intercourse with a woman in her back passage.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (1165); classed as saheeh by Ibn Daqeeq al-‘Eid in al-Ilmaam (2/660) and by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

3 – It was narrated that Khuzaymah ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah is not too shy to tell the truth” three times. “Do not have intercourse with women in their back passages.” Narrated by Ibn Maajah (1924); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.



Thanks for the quotes. But that still doesn't provide a reason. It's just "don't do it." Restrictions without reasons are like bicycles without wheels: not terribly useful.
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« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2012, 12:29:10 PM »

There are plenty of reasons of why not to 'do it'.

-Painful and abusive of woman
-It's a hole where shit comes out, far likely to be a place where you will get some form of diseased infection than where the penis is suppose to go.
-The vagina is pleasurable to a woman by design while an anus is not designed for this, it will tear, bleed, and cause all sorts of problems, people who have anal sex in old age may not be able to even hold bowel movement (quite common in nursing homes).
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« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2012, 06:51:30 PM »

There are plenty of reasons of why not to 'do it'.

-Painful and abusive of woman

You realize that it's incredibly presumptuous of you to assert what women find painful, right? Just like it is to assert that an activity that many women derive pleasure from is universally painful and to essentially call them liars.


-It's a hole where shit comes out, far likely to be a place where you will get some form of diseased infection than where the penis is suppose to go.

So you find it icky... It may very well be, but that's a silly excuse; after all urine, another waste product, comes out of your urethra. Why is it ok to stick your "garbage truck" in a woman, but not ok if she wants you to stick it in the ass? That you find it icky doesn't make it wrong.

As for diseases, that's true no matter what hole you use. It's true even if the two people having sex are faithful to each other. The solution to that is to use protection.


-The vagina is pleasurable to a woman by design while an anus is not designed for this, it will tear, bleed, and cause all sorts of problems, people who have anal sex in old age may not be able to even hold bowel movement (quite common in nursing homes).

Some women have life-long problems with bleeding and tearing during intercourse. Perhaps their funboxes weren't as well-designed? Or maybe it was manufacturing problems in China!

As for your ridiculous assertion about incontinence, which you allege is a "common problem", I challenge you to provide one paper on the topic, published by a reputable and peer-reviewed journal on medicine. I'd urge you to think, but that's hardly going to be useful - you'd need at least two brain cells to rub together. What is the mechanism via which penetration of a sphincter muscle in one direction is OK, but penetration in the other is not? That's not to say that the sphincter can't be damaged; it can and does happen. But it's unlikely to happen because of "vanilla" anal sex, unless the guy's cock is quite a bit larger than what men typically have.
 
P.S.: neither the anus nor the vagina were designed - they evolved. You should agree, if for no other reason because they are both incredibly poor designs that would speak volumes about their alleged designer: namely, that he sucks horribly at designing anatomical features.
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« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2012, 10:42:32 PM »

Hi Jag!

Grow a brain!  Roll Eyes
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