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Author Topic: if capitalism worked, everyone should be rich by now  (Read 8832 times)
Slapper
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« Reply #175 on: November 10, 2012, 03:45:08 PM »

People will always want the highest salary while working as little as possible.
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GigantorX
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« Reply #176 on: November 10, 2012, 10:33:35 PM »

think about it, a lifetime of working should generate enough income to put some spare money aside.

then you die and the children inherit whats left.

get the idea?

everyone should have plenty of money by now, how comes it isnt so?

its not the case in the western world, and it certainly is not the case in the so called shitholes aka 3rd world countries.

the majority of people are permanently broke-kint and live from paycheck to paycheck.

so, where is the problem?

Uh, "The West" doesn't practice capitalism. No nation really does.

Hope this helps.
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avxo
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« Reply #177 on: November 10, 2012, 11:05:58 PM »

this is actually a fully solid thread.

lol at the ppl who think romeny wouldve been a good president bc hes wealthy.

thats so wrong , in so many aspects, i dont know where to start pointing out the flaws on that thought.

healthcare a bad act bc financial reasons?

ah i see, finances before health, eh?

It's not finances before health. It's "the system you are trying to impose isn't going to work; it will bankrupt the country and then not only will you not have healthcare, you won't have a country either."
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quadzilla456
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« Reply #178 on: November 10, 2012, 11:12:35 PM »

Whoever said everyone would be rich in a capitalist society??? That was never on the table.

What you can expect in a capitalist society is a functioning, maintained infrastructure.

What you can expect in a socialist society is less innovation and a crumbling infrastructure. Everyone will be equally poor. Look at Detroit / Flint if you want a vision.
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Bad Boy Dazza
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« Reply #179 on: November 10, 2012, 11:14:44 PM »

Whoever said everyone would be rich in a capitalist society??? That was never on the table.

Exactly.
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tbombz
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« Reply #180 on: November 10, 2012, 11:19:53 PM »

Lol @ James sayimh tax rates weren't higher during those periods I listed
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« Reply #181 on: November 11, 2012, 12:13:06 AM »

Lol @ James sayimh tax rates weren't higher during those periods I listed

You really have no concept of the difference between the standard tax rate and an effective marginal tax rate do you? you are a moron
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quadzilla456
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« Reply #182 on: November 11, 2012, 12:13:35 AM »

Universal healthcare only works on a small scale in countries like Switzerland. That system will not work in the USA long term. You can expect your quality of service to decline massively.
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« Reply #183 on: November 11, 2012, 12:14:29 AM »

Universal healthcare only works on a small scale in countries like Switzerland. That system will not work in the USA long term. You can expect your quality of service to decline massively.

It works in Canada in spite of the urban legends I'm sure your going to counter with.
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« Reply #184 on: November 11, 2012, 12:18:07 AM »

Ok James explain to me how tax rates were lower in the 50s than they are now
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« Reply #185 on: November 11, 2012, 12:26:20 AM »

It works in Canada in spite of the urban legends I'm sure your going to counter with.
I have relatives in Canada and they complain about how fucked up Canada is all the time.

The Chinese already practically own Vancouver.
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james87
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« Reply #186 on: November 11, 2012, 01:11:34 AM »

Ok James explain to me how tax rates were lower in the 50s than they are now
i wont bother to re-read my post but if i said tax RATES were lower in the 50's then they are now, i take it back. Tax RATES have been up and down over the last 50-60 years so i wont get into an argument about which period had the lowest rate, i am sure it would be easy to google that one and find out if you wanted. The point i am trying to make is you need to look at the revenue collected from tax (which would be a lot harder to get true figures) - that's what matters. the tax rates, even the effective tax rates don't give a true reflection. Higher tax rates don't result in more tax revenue, not in the long run. go back even further, in 1929 the highest tax rate was 25%, the number of people who reported high incomes in that period was 10 times higher (adjusted for cpi and population) then there was in the 70's, when the highest marginal rate was significantly higher - and you surely cant make the argument that income distribution had improved that much. When tax rates are higher than the costs of tax minimization strategies, tax shelters, deciding to spend a certain way over another etc, there will likely be less revenue from taxation, yet you impose an unnecessary burden on business.  But you know what, i'm an accountant so i should be on your side - the only people that win when taxes go beyond a certain point and become more complex are the accountants.
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« Reply #187 on: November 11, 2012, 01:18:40 AM »

You make good points but at the same time you make it sound like taxation is inversely corelated with revenue which isn't the case. There is sweet spot wher lower rates get less revenue and higher rates get less revenue. Also there's many factors that can shift the level of wher the sweet spot is located and how big of a range it has
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« Reply #188 on: November 11, 2012, 01:43:08 AM »

Universal healthcare only works on a small scale in countries like Switzerland. That system will not work in the USA long term. You can expect your quality of service to decline massively.

And little countries like Germany, France, GB and every fucking civilization on earth, except USA. And it work fine, and people live healthier and longer life than USA. And they alswo have better start for their life:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/coronary-heart-disease/by-country/

There is nothing good in your health care, not one thing better than even in the third world countries, it only makes more money for owners of the system. There isn't another country where the health care is such a big business, it is the service which is given to the people equally no matter who you are. Why it should be business? How much is your share from that business, how much you earn from it? Nothing, you are wrong side of the wall, with all the people who just pay for it and who doesn't get back nothing worth that money they pay. In other countries we pay it by the taxes, which are less or similar than USA. Just like you guys pay for schools, fire department etc. Some of the countries you doesn't have to pay even for the medicines, it is included in the health care. What's so wrong about that?
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« Reply #189 on: November 11, 2012, 01:59:17 AM »

It works in Canada in spite of the urban legends I'm sure your going to counter with.

Only way I'll go to a hospital here in Canada is if I get shot or stabbed.....even than I'd rather go to a vet. I've sat waiting in emergency for ridiculous amounts of time for simple shit like a few stitches and can't seem to find a family doctor accepting new clients. I don't even want a gp cause my previous one was a useless chink but sometimes you need them to sign shit and stuff like that.

Oh and never mind the waiting periods for appointments to see specialists...

I've had better health services in a third world country in latin america.
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« Reply #190 on: November 11, 2012, 03:02:03 AM »

it works in many other nations.

I guess that would depend on what you mean by "works". Is it your assertion that a program where government pays for all healthcare needs is economically viable?
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james87
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« Reply #191 on: November 11, 2012, 05:24:06 AM »

difficult question, depends on views of the world.

here, it works.and im in favour of it.

my dad had heart surgery, cost some 100k usd, was covered.

yes, everybody pays mandatory insurance and the costs are rising, but im still in favour of it.

btw, a govt never pays for anything, its always the taxpayers in one way or another, govt just collects the funds and redistributes where needed(and often, where its not needed).

should we let the elderly and sick just die off if they cant afford therapy?

The problem with your argument is that you assume there is no alternative, that we need big brother (the government) to take a high percentage of what we earn and then decide how it should be spent for us. Why cant these services exist without government providing them? We have insurance for our houses, our cars, life insurance, the list goes on. I have private health insurance, i have income protection insurance and i have a superannuation fund that i make contributions to which will help provide me an income in my retirement. If i were taxed less, i would be able to allocate my higher net income to all of these areas where i get to decide exactly which of each suits my needs best. The fact is, no one is more careful at spending your own money then you are. The most careless allocation of funds, is when you are spending someone else money, on someone else-which is essentially what the government does. Don't get me wrong, we need taxes and we need government, just not to the extent some people believe. I would hate to think how much of my tax money gets wasted just on administrative nonsense that goes along with all of these "services"
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_bruce_
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« Reply #192 on: November 11, 2012, 05:37:41 AM »

difficult question, depends on views of the world.

here, it works.and im in favour of it.

my dad had heart surgery, cost some 100k usd, was covered.

yes, everybody pays mandatory insurance and the costs are rising, but im still in favour of it.

btw, a govt never pays for anything, its always the taxpayers in one way or another, govt just collects the funds and redistributes where needed(and often, where its not needed).

should we let the elderly and sick just die off if they cant afford therapy?

No, they've founded the base on which we're living. Unlike when I was a young punk I have a lot of compassion for the oldies - many to whom I've talked to are pretty strong willed and clever.
But the trend is a pro active death policy for the elderly spearheaded by Britain since the aging population is "costing" too much.
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« Reply #193 on: November 11, 2012, 05:43:19 AM »

People who work hard and save do have money put aside.   So it does work for them.  Do you have a job?  What do you do?

Third world?  WTF?  These people follow a different set of rules.

I.e. We're happy for slave labour to exist if it means cheap clothes and wallets for us, and we don't have to see it.

Capitalism is global/expansionist etc, 3rd world is the same set of rules, we just see the pretty side of it.

Capitalism = richest 12% having 90% of the wealth = flawed system.
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« Reply #194 on: November 11, 2012, 07:12:02 AM »

Only way I'll go to a hospital here in Canada is if I get shot or stabbed.....even than I'd rather go to a vet. I've sat waiting in emergency for ridiculous amounts of time for simple shit like a few stitches and can't seem to find a family doctor accepting new clients. I don't even want a gp cause my previous one was a useless chink but sometimes you need them to sign shit and stuff like that.

Oh and never mind the waiting periods for appointments to see specialists...

I've had better health services in a third world country in latin america.
I love how your post got totally ignored.
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quadzilla456
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« Reply #195 on: November 11, 2012, 08:57:07 AM »

difficult question, depends on views of the world.

here, it works.and im in favour of it.

my dad had heart surgery, cost some 100k usd, was covered.

yes, everybody pays mandatory insurance and the costs are rising, but im still in favour of it.

btw, a govt never pays for anything, its always the taxpayers in one way or another, govt just collects the funds and redistributes where needed(and often, where its not needed).

should we let the elderly and sick just die off if they cant afford therapy?
It only works in a small, wealthy country like Switzerland. That system cannot work in a country of 300 million plus. While it is noble to try and save everyone including the poor the laws of nature does not respect it. Many humans think they are divorced from nature and they are not. In nature the weak die off. If you are physically weak but have money then you are not "weak". If you are physically weak and have no money you are "weak".

I've seen with my own eyes lions devour an antelope that was hours old, right after birth. That's how nature operates - cruel and efficient.
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« Reply #196 on: November 11, 2012, 09:56:27 AM »

think about it, a lifetime of working should generate enough income to put some spare money aside.

then you die and the children inherit whats left.

get the idea?

everyone should have plenty of money by now, how comes it isnt so?

its not the case in the western world, and it certainly is not the case in the so called shitholes aka 3rd world countries.

the majority of people are permanently broke-kint and live from paycheck to paycheck.

so, where is the problem?

Hey dickwad, maybe you should understand Capitolism before you make a jerk of yourself?? Maybe you ment Catabolism??
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X
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« Reply #197 on: November 11, 2012, 10:01:53 AM »

Eat a vegan type diet long enough and you won't even need a doctor/hospital unless an emergency until your 70's and 80's anyway. And when you're that age, who cares?
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #198 on: November 11, 2012, 11:13:01 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTfe-1DScxw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTfe-1DScxw</a>
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Shockwave
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« Reply #199 on: November 11, 2012, 11:15:31 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTfe-1DScxw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTfe-1DScxw</a>
I love how you manage to interject your fucked up religion into every thread.
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