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Author Topic: Flat BB bench a "shoulder killer"  (Read 5366 times)
Donny
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« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2012, 06:50:52 AM »

Couldn't do flat db flies yesterday but managed to do decline bb, incline machine and some cable flies.

A recent job I was doing had me overusing my shoulders all day so I think that's the reason why its been acting up again.

Gonna be doing a little traveling in the new year so that'll give me a much needed break. If I don't train for 2 days by the 3rd I start getting withdrawals symptoms and start feeling completely insane. I'll definitely be doing some pushups and pull ups on tree branches at least so I don't kill someone or myself.  Grin
let us know how your shoulder feels in the next day or two....
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jpm101
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« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2012, 10:34:34 AM »

As most of us understand, benches (flat, incline. decline) don't seem to give the results with the effort put into them.  The DB's over BB's  would be a better option for most.  The path of DB's is more in harmony with the arc/path of the actually press. The "S" path to a lesser degree,but still important. A too set/fixed movement, with a BB, often invites injury. Another problem is that of going too heavy, too often. In most gym's you may notice that the guy's with the best pecs are the BB'ers over the heavy duty benchers.  Repping out fast 220 to 270's, rather than going with slower 400+ 3-4 forced reps does have it's advantages. Than again, most men can't make up their mind if they want to be a BB'er or PL'er.  

The bench press to the upper chest or neck (elbows out wide & inline with the neck/upper chest) may be the better option for more direct pec influence when using a BB (flat, incline, decline). Of course a pair of DB's would work very well with this exercise. In either case, the stretch/ROM will be greater. If new to this movement, warmup with care, use a much lighter weight than in regular benching and , most important, have a awake spotter near by. If training alone, a good advantage is to have a PR, rack or some type of stops.

Gironda advised benching this way. Don't know if he was the first to adapt this style. Probably not, he did borrow, and adapt, a lot of his exercise methods from those before him and during his time. West coast guy's were really very inventive when it came to BB'ing.  Still are today from what I witness.

Dips (weighted) are an excellent pec builder. Not only a better stretch, but changing hand positions can affect upper/lower development in different ways, almost insuring a complete pec involvement. A steep Declines press can mock dips, but not to the same results that full dips can.

DB fly's are a short range direct pec exercise. Once the DB's reach roughly above 50 degrees, the tension is reduced off the pec's themselves to a greater degree.  Cables have the advantage, over DB flys, of keeping most of the tension during the entire movement. A better option might be a Pec Deck, where the elbows lead the movement and a greater resistance/weight can be used., in all positions.

Might suggest: A pre-exhaust  system.  Some confuse this with a SS, which it is not.

1) Pec Deck   7-10 reps    3 sets
2) Dips          7-10 reps    3 sets

No rest between exercise 1 and 2, this is the first cycle. Rest 60 to 90 seconds between cycles. If no Peck Deck, than cables. If no cables than DB's.

If into conventional training, than do the dips first (3 sets) and than the extension movements (pec deck, cables, DB's), 3 sets. Good Luck.




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Donny
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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2012, 11:18:05 AM »

Bench press to neck Gironda style is terrible for a shoulder injury. Very surprised you wrote that, terrible. Huh
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jpm101
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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2012, 01:02:18 PM »

Donny:  Hmmmm..two "terrible(s)" in one post..impressive, I must say. Plus a perplexed unhappy face!

Investigating the bench to the neck/throat/upper pec exercise may clear things up a bit, regarding proper performance. If time is taken to do so.  Gironda did not always highlight this form of the bench (or any benching for that matter), but it was included within some of his chest training work. I, like Gironda way back then, think too much time and attention is spent of benching now a days. Larry Scott, among many other BB'ers, have tried and used this exercise. in the past.

Of course, as we all know, every exercise is not meant for everyone. But most exercises are worth a try. And starting out with very light weight...sometimes with only a exercise bar.  Reason I mentioned that form of benching was to throw it in the mix for general consideration. Lot of exercises  that most have not discovered, as yet.  As there are dozens of workout methods that haven't been brought to attention on GB. If anyone feels a danger when first trying a new exercise (using very light weight), than don't do it. Use your common sense. Good Luck.
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Donny
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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2012, 01:13:39 PM »

Donny:  Hmmmm..two "terrible(s)" in one post..impressive, I must say. Plus a perplexed unhappy face!

Investigating the bench to the neck/throat/upper pec exercise may clear things up a bit, regarding proper performance. If time is taken to do so.  Gironda did not always highlight this form of the bench (or any benching for that matter), but it was included within some of his chest training work. I, like Gironda way back then, think too much time and attention is spent of benching now a days. Larry Scott, among many other BB'ers, have tried and used this exercise. in the past.

Of course, as we all know, every exercise is not meant for everyone. But most exercises are worth a try. And starting out with very light weight...sometimes with only a exercise bar.  Reason I mentioned that form of benching was to throw it in the mix for general consideration. Lot of exercises  that most have not discovered, as yet.  As there are dozens of workout methods that haven't been brought to attention on GB. If anyone feels a danger when first trying a new exercise (using very light weight), than don't do it. Use your common sense. Good Luck.
write sense and i might smile. your posts are long winded and repeat themselves. If you believe benching to the neck region is good with a shoulder injury then so be it. To be honest i am sick of you being negative on some of my posts. stick to your powerlifting with one arm chins with seniors. Benching to the neck region i knew years ago. get with the times. I enbrace old school but i have a good knowledge of training and Anatomy. you seem to see your ideas and nothing else.
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« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2012, 01:28:38 PM »

Donny: I'm sure you have excellent information, insight and hands on experience. And have trained hundred of men to greatness.. Can we crown you as the king of the training site?  Not to mention you are here, seemly 24/7, to spread your knowledge. God Bess and Good Luck.


Side Bar: wonder why Donny reminds me of Pumpster?
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Donny
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« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2012, 01:34:12 PM »

Donny: I'm sure you have excellent information, insight and hands on experience. And have trained hundred of men to greatness.. Can we crown you as the king of the training site?  Not to mention you are here, seemly 24/7, to spread your knowledge. God Bess and Good Luck.


Side Bar: wonder why Donny reminds me of Pumpster?
no you are a guy who comes across as very narrow minded and your training methods are powerlifting orientated.. my god i feel sorry for your seniors.
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« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2012, 01:46:51 PM »

I HAVE DONE BENCH TO THE NECK AND YES CAN LEAD TO OR REINJURE A PRE EXISITING SHOULDER ISSUE,,,I DO LIKE THEM BUT NEED TO BE DONE SLOW AND WITH MUCH LESS WEIGHT THAN WHAT IS DONE ON INC OR FLAT OF COURSE,,I USE SMITH FOR IT DUE TO BAR BEING FIXED AND U CAN POSITION BODY WITH EASE TO GET CHEST WORKED...
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« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2012, 03:45:05 PM »

I started a thread on developing a lagging upper chest a while ago and the bench to the neck came up. I did try the exercise and it was fine until I started to add weight to it since it did aggravate my left shoulder. Maybe some people are able to do it without problems just like the guys I see doing behind the neck shoulder press/pull up/pull downs in the gym. Unfortunately, I'm unable to and even just looking at them performing those exercise makes my shoulders hurt. 

As donny mentioned earlier wrt to other exercises it really does depend on the individual. You have to try all this stuff on yourself and see what works for you. Either way, everyone's input is greatly appreciated but keep in mind that we will never respond to the same training methods. (no homo)
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« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2012, 06:19:11 PM »

I don't understand my shoulder problem...  I can't do dips anymore, and i can't do flat barbell bench press...but i can dumbbell press more than i've ever done in my life.  Either way, i stay away from barbell bench press.
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« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2012, 01:31:16 PM »

I don't understand my shoulder problem...  I can't do dips anymore, and i can't do flat barbell bench press...but i can dumbbell press more than i've ever done in my life.  Either way, i stay away from barbell bench press.
Dumbbells are good as you can move more in a natural plane and rotate your hands.. your correct in your observations.
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« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2012, 02:05:06 PM »

I don't understand my shoulder problem...  I can't do dips anymore, and i can't do flat barbell bench press...but i can dumbbell press more than i've ever done in my life.  Either way, i stay away from barbell bench press.

Stick with what works for you
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« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2013, 05:35:47 AM »

A few months ago I started doing reverse grip bench presses when I do either flat or decline benches, if I do inclines, I like to use a low incline or use the hammer strength inclines.
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« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2013, 05:37:50 AM »

yesterday i just used dumbbells...today my chest and shoulders feel great.
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« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2013, 08:37:02 AM »

No more flat bench for me, probably forever. 2 shoulder injuries over the years had a lasting effect.

I do dumbbells with no issue whatsoever.
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« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2013, 08:55:56 AM »

No more flat bench for me, probably forever. 2 shoulder injuries over the years had a lasting effect.

I do dumbbells with no issue whatsoever.
Dumbbells are great.. they work so many muscles...you stabilize the bells. no cheating and if you have a weak side you can even do a few more reps for that side.
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« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2013, 10:15:40 AM »

Dumbbells are great.. they work so many muscles...you stabilize the bells. no cheating and if you have a weak side you can even do a few more reps for that side.

I agree. I tend to use dumbbells after barbells though so I don't have to go as heavy. Hoisting the 130s up gets taxing and dangerous. (130 is as high as my power locks go)
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« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2013, 10:45:21 AM »

I agree. I tend to use dumbbells after barbells though so I don't have to go as heavy. Hoisting the 130s up gets taxing and dangerous. (130 is as high as my power locks go)
130s.. no i am not that strong. I can still manage and if i need a spot one of my boys do it.
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« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2013, 11:58:52 AM »

130s.. no i am not that strong. I can still manage and if i need a spot one of my boys do it.

My cats and dogs like to fight around me while I lift. It's amazing that I haven't crushed one of them over the years.

On occasion ill have my wife spot me. But it's mostly so I can stare at her tits.
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« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2013, 07:34:38 PM »

A few months ago I started doing reverse grip bench presses when I do either flat or decline benches, if I do inclines, I like to use a low incline or use the hammer strength inclines.
I also prefer a low incline.....about 30 degrees.
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« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2013, 08:48:36 PM »

My cats and dogs like to fight around me while I lift. It's amazing that I haven't crushed one of them over the years.

On occasion ill have my wife spot me. But it's mostly so I can stare at her tits.

but i guess more blood will rush to your penis,kind of beat the purpose of benching doesn't it?
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« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2013, 05:43:42 AM »

but i guess more blood will rush to your penis,kind of beat the purpose of benching doesn't it?


penis is more important than pecs

no homo
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« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2013, 07:43:45 PM »

and learn to feel the difference when the training load goes to chest or delts.very important imo

very important for every movement...
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