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Author Topic: Old school standing shoulder presses  (Read 4684 times)
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« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2013, 07:50:21 AM »

i did these again today and loved them more... the only thing i worry about now is scratching the hell out of my chin on the way down (my olympic bars are very rough in the middle)  Smiley
I raped my face a few times doing push presses.....nothing like driving 200+ lbs into your chin.  Sad
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« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2013, 11:54:45 AM »

I raped my face a few times doing push presses.....nothing like driving 200+ lbs into your chin.  Sad

haha

Same here, busted my chin/lip open a few times. 


Cool
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« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2013, 03:16:11 PM »

I did Standing PBN's today and they felt pretty good (much better than seated PBN and also much better than standing front presses)

Weights were nothing to write home about but plenty of room for improvement.

Started with the empty bar and then did a few lighter warmup sets then 135 for 12 and 2 sets of 8 with 145

alternated with front Chins

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« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2013, 06:37:42 PM »

I did Standing PBN's today and they felt pretty good (much better than seated PBN and also much better than standing front presses)

Weights were nothing to write home about but plenty of room for improvement.

Started with the empty bar and then did a few lighter warmup sets then 135 for 12 and 2 sets of 8 with 145

alternated with front Chins


weights are irrelevant... it's about feeling the muscles doing the work, sounds like you got that. supersetting with chins sounds brutal and awesome
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« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2013, 07:07:43 PM »


weights are irrelevant... it's about feeling the muscles doing the work, sounds like you got that. supersetting with chins sounds brutal and awesome
THIS;;; FEEL THE MUSCLE . feel it working and use your mind +muscle connection.
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« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2013, 06:15:15 AM »

Hit these again today... i made sure to warm up really well first... getting the start of a pump going in my delts... I felt stronger this week and managed to press 225 for 6 on my third set... i went back to 185 for a last set of 10 +2 cheat reps...

unreal way to start the day
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« Reply #56 on: February 05, 2013, 06:24:05 AM »

Hit these again today... i made sure to warm up really well first... getting the start of a pump going in my delts... I felt stronger this week and managed to press 225 for 6 on my third set... i went back to 185 for a last set of 10 +2 cheat reps...

unreal way to start the day
thatīs a good weight Wooo...
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« Reply #57 on: February 05, 2013, 07:24:34 AM »

thatīs a good weight Wooo...

felt pretty good... not gonna try to go heavier until i can get to 12 reps with 225... will start doing rest-pause on my 3rd set next week
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« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2013, 08:22:22 AM »

Hit these again today... i made sure to warm up really well first... getting the start of a pump going in my delts... I felt stronger this week and managed to press 225 for 6 on my third set... i went back to 185 for a last set of 10 +2 cheat reps...

unreal way to start the day

very impressive ma man PROPS
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« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2013, 05:58:41 PM »

very impressive ma man PROPS


thanks dude... i'm noticing that a lot of this movement is FORM... i was leaning back at the beginning... made me weaker, instead i focus on looking straight ahead and pressing in front of my face and then up and over the middle of my head
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« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2013, 09:07:43 PM »

Told this story before..long time ago: Me and a Samoan bro were doing 320-330 push presses.  Nothing too serious, only for 4 to 6 reps. Than did 305-315 for the press behind the neck for , maybe, 7-8 reps. My bud never was into overhead presses  before, doing mostly benches, This was from a PR and we were in that rare lifting zone that day. He must have weighted 330, or so, and was doing bwt presses without much trouble.

 Every BB'er/lifter should be able to do at least one bwt overhead presses. With the push press, a slight knee jerk and a top lockout is encouraged. I weighted 230, or a little less, at the time. Were both over 6'2, so considering the distance traveled with the BB..fairly OK. I really like the press behind the neck, as very effective movement and delt width builder. Add upright row and you got a very effective shoulder scheme.

In overhead pressing, fix on a point just above  eye level, try not looking up or down. Of course most can jerk much heavier weight overhead, but this is when the confidence factor enters. Olympic lifters are the absolute tops on these overhead lifts, because they practice the overhead lifts. Seen a few women Olympic lifter outclass and out lift men. No doubt, most BB'ers.

If trainee's spent more serious time doing presses, there would be a lot more 300lb+ lifts. Always thought the overhead press (including DB's) was a much better mass builder for the shoulder girdle. Also though that dips (in any form) was superior to the bench for chest/pec, shoulder and tricep development. WOOO has potential to hit 300 (for reps) without too much trouble, within  the end of the year. Good Luck

Side Bar: A  friends cousin, who never lifted a day in his life, cleaned 205 (that's what was on the bar at that time) no style..just powered up) and pressed it 4 or 5 times without too much effort. Then he grabbed his 40, took a drink, and did a few reps of cheat curls with the same weight. Just that some are just naturally strong..the genetic thing again.
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« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2013, 05:16:23 AM »

Genetics are a huge part in basic lifting. I was 14 when I first bench pressed and Olympic bar. I got up to 205 for a single. Day 1. No bullshit. Was always strong. Learning how to lift with proper form added to my base.
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« Reply #62 on: February 06, 2013, 02:27:16 PM »

WOOO be the man. Also had a natural advantage in benching, though never was a first choice exercise for me.. My two cousins, and me, all pushed 400+ while still in high school. But than again, that really never impressed me, that's just what we did.

Genetics gives a good advantage, but so does a basic blue collar work ethic. Blood, sweat and hard work, along with well planned training, can give impressive result to even a guy with average genetics. Lot of guy's will be critical of successful BB'ers (or lifters), saying that it's generics, but maybe just plain discipline, sacrifice and understanding of their body and how to best make superior gains and what works for them only.

Sorry to say, most men who lift may never understand these concepts. Most look the same, year in and year out. Jumping from one super duper workout plan to the next, never gaining much in size or strength. Never even coming close to their true potential. Training is a simple process, with brief and to the point training in any workout. Stick with a new program at least 6 to 8 weeks (first couple of weeks are generally a break in period). Golden rule; KISS. Good Luck.
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« Reply #63 on: February 06, 2013, 03:18:11 PM »

Hate to beat a dead horse but everything is relative concerning the range of motion. Simple physics and common sense shows that a weight moved further is more work. It seems everyone does half rep shoulder presses with dumbbells or barbells. I was using 135 reps touching the bar to my upper chest while fairly upright doing military presses. My buddy likes the smith machine and only goes low enough to have his upper arms parallel which is a half rep in my opinion. He disagrees. He had 4 45lbs on the machine. I don't know what the mechanism weighs on the track. I tried to imitate his style exactly pumping out reps with the 4 45lbs and he said I'm surprised you use such a light weight with a free barbell. I just shook my head.

It's the same with a bench press. Pull your feet back as close as you can to your head on the floor. Twist upright with a crazy arch inflating your chest. Use a fairly wide grip and press a barbell under a shortened range. I'm 5'8" and my friend who benches 400lbs. plus with a bench shirt uses that style in the gym and at bench contests. I estimate his press is about 12" from chest to lock out. I'm 5'8" and when I bench I measured close to 24 inches of travel.

If you want to get truly strong think of how you can make an exercise harder for your muscles not easier.
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« Reply #64 on: February 06, 2013, 03:33:42 PM »

I think people with little knowledge always go back to old school workouts and do not embrace modern thinking...they reapeat the same advice over and over again because quite frankly they are at a still stand and do not know how to come forwards. They also have not or will not learn how to train with maximum efficiency and most important to train safely. I am a fan of old school but i am a "THINKING" Bodybuilder and i will adapt to what my Body needs...not what a "Guru" says.... Wink
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« Reply #65 on: February 06, 2013, 06:10:34 PM »

A midget standing on a giant's shoulders can see much further than the giant.

I think this applies very well to training philosophy. The people that came before no matter how knowledgeable and intelligent, are inevitably limited by their time periods and the information available at that time. Those that come after them have the advantage of being able to build on the knowledge of their predecessors as well as their own experience, and so the cycle continues.



 
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« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2013, 06:24:50 PM »

A midget standing on a giant's shoulders can see much further than the giant.

I think this applies very well to training philosophy. The people that came before no matter how knowledgeable and intelligent, are inevitably limited by their time periods and the information available at that time. Those that come after them have the advantage of being able to build on the knowledge of their predecessors as well as their own experience, and so the cycle continues.



 
well put and understood. make sure you stay on the training threads because i think you have lots to offer ..
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« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2013, 06:52:15 PM »

Yes, agree with OldTimer1. Always make an exercise harder, allowing the muscle to adapt, and progress will usually follow. Also agree the ROM is relative to each of us, as are muscle inserts, bone leverage/length, etc. All points placed under the mechanics (physics) of individual lifters. Considering the height/travel of a lift, as a short vs long arm person, can also become important.

If anyone thinks that Old School workouts means only heavy compound exercises, including full body workout, they are mistaken. Systems that have been around for a generation, or so, are SS, tri, quad  and giant sets, TUT, Rest Pause,drop sets, extended sets, moderate pump sets, negatives, 21's, half reps, GVT, etc. Guess you might call these modern thinking, because most top BB'ers follow these protocols every day of the week. Those BB'ers, back in he 60's & 70's weren't too bad either.  

Even the very old 5X5 system (long before Bill Star made it popular) is still used today, with good results. Old school or "modern thinking" are pretty much the same, only the label has been changed. Now I plan on doing some old school standing presses to get modern results. Good Luck.




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« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2013, 07:57:25 PM »

     JPM I think you're missing the point here. I don't think anyone implied that the "old school" methods don't work. What I am saying is that if you don't try build on something that is already there you are missing the point of basic human progression. The KISS principle is very catchy, but it can halt progress and foreward thinking. When the Soviet Union was dominating the Olympic games, they weren't re-hashing old 5x5 routines. They came up with new methods which most would think fall out of the realm of the KISS principle, but they were able to advance human performance to new levels.
      And just like getting an Olympic athlete to the podium might require some foreward thinking and complexity, it may take the same type of thought process for a 35 year old guy working 60 hours a week with stress levels through the roof to take his squat from 405 to 500.

      If a person thinks they have this whole training thing all figured out, they have stopped trying to learn. Nothing wrong with that, but if you decided to stop learning you shouldn't aggressively keep teaching at the same time.
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« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2013, 07:58:32 PM »

Hate to beat a dead horse but everything is relative concerning the range of motion. Simple physics and common sense shows that a weight moved further is more work. It seems everyone does half rep shoulder presses with dumbbells or barbells. I was using 135 reps touching the bar to my upper chest while fairly upright doing military presses. My buddy likes the smith machine and only goes low enough to have his upper arms parallel which is a half rep in my opinion. He disagrees. He had 4 45lbs on the machine. I don't know what the mechanism weighs on the track. I tried to imitate his style exactly pumping out reps with the 4 45lbs and he said I'm surprised you use such a light weight with a free barbell. I just shook my head.

It's the same with a bench press. Pull your feet back as close as you can to your head on the floor. Twist upright with a crazy arch inflating your chest. Use a fairly wide grip and press a barbell under a shortened range. I'm 5'8" and my friend who benches 400lbs. plus with a bench shirt uses that style in the gym and at bench contests. I estimate his press is about 12" from chest to lock out. I'm 5'8" and when I bench I measured close to 24 inches of travel.

If you want to get truly strong think of how you can make an exercise harder for your muscles not easier.


horse ain't dead... you're bang on

i like strength... but with form and a full ROM to get the benefits
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« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2013, 11:14:56 PM »

Yev33:  Actually I understood that there was no dis against old school or anything else. It was admitted that it does work, in what you were referring too.  Old school can be a combo of just about any training protocol, because just about every thing has been attempted to gain size & strength. Most anything can work in one form or another, depending on the person using it. Seems always to be a new, can't miss workout program every 6 month or so. Finding out there really a rehash of a long ago forgotten idea. There are a couple of new approaches to gaining muscle & size, being researched and tested at present. (the 60's and 70's were great times for newer training ideas, a core of a lot of present workout programs).

The K.I.S.S. principle denoted that any training system need not be too complex in it's approach, that's all it suggest. It's not a program or set workout protocol. Simply put, need not have 6 exercises, for a targeted body part, when 2 or 3 can accomplish the same results. Or training 5 to 6 times a week, when 3 times a week may prove more rewarding. This over kill factor in BB'ing/lifting, is just wasted effort. If any one believes that more is better and works wonders for them...than God speed to them, they found their way to success. Let's face it, in reality, training to make progressive gains is pretty simple stuff, if you understand the body and give it ample recovery time.

That metaphor of standing on the shoulders of giants (or pioneers) is a suitable one. We all learn and gain from the experience of other, past and present. Having an open mind and exchanging ideas works wonders. Never know why some people get so emotionally bent out of shape if some  may disagree with them.  Good Luck
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« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2013, 03:01:14 AM »

    JPM I think you're missing the point here. I don't think anyone implied that the "old school" methods don't work. What I am saying is that if you don't try build on something that is already there you are missing the point of basic human progression. The KISS principle is very catchy, but it can halt progress and foreward thinking. When the Soviet Union was dominating the Olympic games, they weren't re-hashing old 5x5 routines. They came up with new methods which most would think fall out of the realm of the KISS principle, but they were able to advance human performance to new levels.
      And just like getting an Olympic athlete to the podium might require some foreward thinking and complexity, it may take the same type of thought process for a 35 year old guy working 60 hours a week with stress levels through the roof to take his squat from 405 to 500.

      If a person thinks they have this whole training thing all figured out, they have stopped trying to learn. Nothing wrong with that, but if you decided to stop learning you shouldn't aggressively keep teaching at the same time.
THIS... Wink
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« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2013, 03:41:49 AM »

THIS... Wink

Bah
You'll agree
With anyone
Who disagrees
With JPM.
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« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2013, 04:16:26 AM »

Bah
You'll agree
With anyone
Who disagrees
With JPM.
no no...i just hear this "KISS" advice over and over again.... everyone trains how they feel. lost count of how often the man writes this. I agree with his post because he is 100% correct and i think itīs about time there was some fresh advice in here. wooo you canīt make progress always going by what guys like AJ said 30 years ago. you use and make your own lifting bags Wooo because YOU get results and YOU know how your body adapts.. NO "Guru" can tell you this wooo.. Krank is another guy on here who trains HIS way...take what you need and disgard what does not suite you...get the point ?
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« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2013, 05:10:48 AM »

fair enough... but all things being equal, KISS is a good place to start and a good foundation to go back to as needed

IMO
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