Author Topic: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting  (Read 23920 times)

Radical Plato

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #75 on: February 01, 2013, 12:44:17 PM »
more guns doesn't mean more violence Reading comprehension problem? and again prove your position DO NOT assert it.
 

Prove it , don't assert it. And nonsense

Fifty-five million kids went to school on the day that 20 were massacred at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut. Even in the United States, therefore, the chances of a child’s dying in a school shooting are remote. As my friend Steven Pinker demonstrates in his monumental study of human violence, The Better Angels of Our Nature, our perception of danger is easily distorted by rare events. Is gun violence increasing in the United States? No. But it certainly seems to be when one recalls recent atrocities in Newtown and Aurora. In fact, the overall rate of violent crime has fallen by 22 percent in the past decade (and 18 percent in the past five years).

300 million guns and the overall rate of violent crimes has FALLEN by 22 percent in the past 10 years , proof positive more guns does NOT mean more violence.  ;)

That's you projecting , no one thinks guns are the end all be all solution but your alternative of no one having them legally isn't the solution and it's immoral to suggest otherwise.

The NRA isn't shooting kids , keep blaming everyone and everything besides the lunatics who commit these atrocities. The only special interest groups who want to make it easily for murderers is the anti-gun lobby , who create ' gun free school zones ' which let mass murderers know in advanced they will go unopposed. They are complicit in these tragic events  

Keep outing yourself as an immoral person who wants to make things easier for mass murderers.  ;)
Your nuttiness is right up there, to describe the regular inevitable mass shootings in America as RARE is absolutely INSANE.  Proof positive that you are truly of your rocker.  For a mass shooting to happen anywhere here in Australia is RARE, let alone at a school, and we haven't had a mass shooting for over 16 years.  You have the worst gun homicide and serious injury rate of all the Industrialised nations, that's because you have millions of gun owners, this is simple maths, of course unless your a semi literate gun owner of course.  I could post charts and statistics until the cows come home on this one simple fact, but to even argue that Americas homicide rate is way out of control, is a form on incredible denial and insanity, and I will not continue to enable ludicrousness.

The NRA may not be shooting KIDS, but they sure have enabled and promoted an environment were it is inevitable for these shootings to happen.   Hitler never personally killed anybody, but nobody would argue that he wasn't responsible for unimaginable suffering and death.  If you promote an ideology that leads to unnecessary homicide, the people are going to hold you to account.  For you to take some twisted moral high-ground that you have a right to continue enabling this very environment that sees many innocent people unnecessarily die is really perverse, it truly is reminiscent of the NAZIS blaming the JEWS for their own demise.
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Radical Plato

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2013, 01:04:59 PM »

^^^^^ More Gun Nutter propaganda.

A more realistic look......

On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania. By the time he was finished, he had killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It was the worst mass murder in Australia’s history.

Twelve days later, Australia’s government did something remarkable. Led by newly elected conservative Prime Minister John Howard, it announced a bipartisan deal with state and local governments to enact sweeping gun-control measures. A decade and a half hence, the results of these policy changes are clear: They worked really, really well.

At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia. The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase. (Self-defense did not count.) In the wake of the tragedy, polls showed public support for these measures at upwards of 90 percent.

What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.

There have been some contrarian studies about the decrease in gun violence in Australia, including a 2006 paper that argued the decline in gun-related homicides after Port Arthur was simply a continuation of trends already under way. But that paper’s methodology has been discredited, which is not surprising when you consider that its authors were affiliated with pro-gun groups. Other reports from gun advocates have similarly cherry-picked anecdotal evidence or presented outright fabrications in attempting to make the case that Australia’s more-restrictive laws didn’t work. Those are effectively refuted by findings from peer-reviewed papers, which note that the rate of decrease in gun-related deaths more than doubled following the gun buyback, and that states with the highest buyback rates showed the steepest declines. A 2011 Harvard summary of the research concluded that, at the time the laws were passed in 1996, “it would have been difficult to imagine more compelling future evidence of a beneficial effect.”

Whether the same policies would work as well in the United States—or whether similar legislation would have any chance of being passed here in the first place—is an open question. Howard, the conservative leader behind the Australian reforms, wrote an op-ed in an Australian paper after visiting the United States in the wake of the Aurora shootings. He came away convinced that America needed to change its gun laws, but lamented its lack of will to do so.

There is more to this than merely the lobbying strength of the National Rifle Association and the proximity of the November presidential election. It is hard to believe that their reaction would have been any different if the murders in Aurora had taken place immediately after the election of either Obama or Romney. So deeply embedded is the gun culture of the US, that millions of law-abiding, Americans truly believe that it is safer to own a gun, based on the chilling logic that because there are so many guns in circulation, one's own weapon is needed for self-protection. To put it another way, the situation is so far gone there can be no turning back.

That’s certainly how things looked after the Aurora shooting. But after Sandy Hook, with the nation shocked and groping for answers once again, I wonder if Americans are still so sure that we have nothing to learn from Australia’s example.
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marty31672

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2013, 01:05:49 PM »
how about we send the kids to school with guns so they can defend theyself

The True Adonis

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2013, 01:22:42 PM »
If five people were breaking into my house, what am I supposed to do?  ???

Soul Crusher

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2013, 01:25:11 PM »
If five people were breaking into my house, what am I supposed to do?  ???

Sing Kumbaya and Give Peace a Chance

The True Adonis

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2013, 01:26:32 PM »
Sing Kumbaya and Give Peace a Chance
Think they would leave if I offered them a slice of Jefferson Davis Pie and some Lemonade?

Metabolic

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2013, 01:54:01 PM »
If five people were breaking into my house, what am I supposed to do?  ???
Your natural reaction (natural as, say, your "bodybuilding" status) would be to shoot em all, this I know because you have the "fight fire with fire" mentality.

What you should do if you had a more reasonable thinking would be to call the cops and avoid spreading exacerbated violence.  Now, dont get me wrong, I can see that in the current situation its very hard to act reasonably, this is why the government (whichever) is the first step to solving this insanity.

Metabolic

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2013, 03:16:42 PM »
Call the cops? that's no solution at all , it took the police TWENTY fucking minutes to respond from first getting the call at Sandy Hook , think about that 20 minutes that's astonishing. And it's asinine to wait for the police , who might I remind people are under NO legal right to respond to your call according to the supreme court ruling.


The reasonable thing to do is to be proactive and protect your family to suggest anyone is wrong for trying to do this is immoral and flat-out wrong. You don't want to do that , knock yourself out , however to suggest no one should you're high. Anyone who has the audacity to invade your home is crossing a grave line and should be dealt with accordingly.


  

If you have followed the posts Ive made before this one, youd understand that I dont think you should go to jail for self-defense, nor that you are acting morally wrong on all accounts.  For the greater good of society, yes, people need to stop with the fight fire with fire idiocy.  Then again, as I posted before and will again, its in the hands of the government to confiscate illegal weapons and in the hands of the experts to draft a sane gun law, first step to a reformulation.  I understand what self-defense and acting-by-need is, but from each and every post Ive read in the hundreds of posts, you people dont think guns are a last resort or "acting by needs", you worship them and that delusion that the second ammendment is TRU FREEDZOMSSS.

If you could change the switch yourselves the next generation of kids would not pay by blood.

Also, theres different types of violence, each dealt in different ways (for example, violence in the masses -mass conducts-, violence related to drug crimes, violence related to power disputes, etc), the fact that you deny that this systematic irrational mass murdering, A PARTICULAR TYPE OF VIOLENCE, is a problem is hilarious.

SF1900

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2013, 03:20:08 PM »
We need armed guards protecting armed guards who are protected by arm guards.
X

The True Adonis

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2013, 03:44:21 PM »
Your natural reaction (natural as, say, your "bodybuilding" status) would be to shoot em all, this I know because you have the "fight fire with fire" mentality.

What you should do if you had a more reasonable thinking would be to call the cops and avoid spreading exacerbated violence.  Now, dont get me wrong, I can see that in the current situation its very hard to act reasonably, this is why the government (whichever) is the first step to solving this insanity.

What if the nearest law enforcement officer is 20 miles away, somewhere on the other side of the county?  This is a reality MANY in the United States face.  The majority of the United States is rural you know.

Metabolic

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2013, 03:55:23 PM »
What if the nearest law enforcement officer is 20 miles away, somewhere on the other side of the county?  This is a reality MANY in the United States face.  The majority of the United States is rural you know.

Do we agree that the US in terms of social security is fucked up? Yes, for now, self-defense or state of need is the only thing you can grab unto to defend you phallic toys.  Now, we all know NONE of you have ever mentioned any of those defenses in order to justify the possession of guns, you all have actually defended guns by the second ammendment and FREEDOMZZZ.

Hence, you are now in a disjunctive, either keep ramming with these fight fire with fire insanity and have more kids shot...or soak up some courage and (in a hypothetical case, where you had a decent government) change the second ammendment, initiate the confisctaion of all ilegal weapons (which of course will take time) and test all legitimate gun owners with harsh psychological tests, maybe even have rise the penalties for gun related homicides.

If you like the status quo right now, go ahead, keep fighting violence with more violence, keep the access to illegal weapons easy, its your kids who are getting shot, not mine.

If you dont like that REAL scenario, there is no other way around it buddy, someone has to start the change (no, this is not an Obama quote, I dont like him that much either).




Shockwave

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2013, 03:55:37 PM »
What you should do if you had a more reasonable thinking would be to call the cops and avoid spreading exacerbated violence. 
Yeah, fuck that. Do you have any idea how long it takes the Police to react to a call in most areas? Minimum of a half an hour. I'm not going to cower in the corner praying that the criminals are just going to take what they want and leave while the police are finger popping each others assholes.

Parker

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #87 on: February 01, 2013, 04:13:10 PM »
Do we agree that the US in terms of social security is fucked up? Yes, for now, self-defense or state of need is the only thing you can grab unto to defend you phallic toys.  Now, we all know NONE of you have ever mentioned any of those defenses in order to justify the possession of guns, you all have actually defended guns by the second ammendment and FREEDOMZZZ.

Hence, you are now in a disjunctive, either keep ramming with these fight fire with fire insanity and have more kids shot...or soak up some courage and (in a hypothetical case, where you had a decent government) change the second ammendment, initiate the confisctaion of all ilegal weapons (which of course will take time) and test all legitimate gun owners with harsh psychological tests, maybe even have rise the penalties for gun related homicides.

If you like the status quo right now, go ahead, keep fighting violence with more violence, keep the access to illegal weapons easy, its your kids who are getting shot, not mine.

If you dont like that REAL scenario, there is no other way around it buddy, someone has to start the change (no, this is not an Obama quote, I dont like him that much either).




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"Brothers and sisters, if you and I would just realize, that once we learn to talk the language that they understand, they will then get the point. You can't ever reach a man if you don't speak his language. If a man speaks the language of brute force, you can't come to him with peace. Why goodnight! He'll break you in two, as he has been doing all along. If a man speaks French, you can't speak to him in German. If he speaks Swahili, you can't communicate with him in Chinese. You have to find out, what does this man speak? Once you know his language, learn how to speak his language. He'll get the point, there will be some dialogue, some communication, and some understanding will be developed.

Metabolic

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #88 on: February 01, 2013, 04:15:45 PM »
Malcolm X, The Ballot or The Bullet, 1964

Can you please be less cryptic and post your opinion clearly?

Mr Nobody

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #89 on: February 01, 2013, 04:21:56 PM »
Atlanta sucks I lived there once.

Parker

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #90 on: February 01, 2013, 04:27:33 PM »
Can you please be less cryptic and post your opinion clearly?
he said it right there. If a man speaks (and acts) the language of violence, then you cannot speak (and act) the language of peace.

Speak their language---sometimes if a person escalates the situation or comes at you in a violent manner, you must as well up the ante.
It's not about being a gun nutter, or wrapping oneself up in the second admendment.
Our culture has been born of violence---George Washington wasn't leading a prayer session against the British, particularly when they started ish (Boston Massacre). Violence begets violence, and so that is our history...someone "spoke" (and acted) the language of violence and then we up the ante, then we put things in writing, then we had a huge issue during the Wild West, then we hundreds of yrs later have a problem due to eff ups in our society who believe the answer to every dispute is death by the gun. And therein lies the problem.

To continue this argument, is to continue to go in circles--just like the "God" threads, or the repubs vs dems, or Dorian vs Ronnie.


Metabolic

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #91 on: February 01, 2013, 04:30:19 PM »
he said it right there. If a man speaks (and acts) the language of violence, then you cannot speak (and act) the language of peace.

Speak their language---sometimes if a person escalates the situation or comes at you in a violent manner, you must as well up the ante.
It's not about being a gun nutter, or wrapping oneself up in the second admendment.
Our culture has been born of violence---George Washington wasn't leading a prayer session against the British, particularly when they started ish (Boston Massacre). Violence begets violence, and so that is our history...someone "spoke" (and acted) the language of violence and then we up the ante, then we put things in writing, then we had a huge issue during the Wild West, then we hundreds of yrs later have a problem due to eff ups in our society who believe the answer to every dispute is death by the gun. And therein lies the problem.

To continue this argument, is to continue to go in circles--just like the "God" threads, or the repubs vs dems, or Dorian vs Ronnie.



My question is: In your opinion is that a good or a bad thing? (That your society is based on the language of violence)

Also, Ronnie > Dorian, errybody knows

Shockwave

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #92 on: February 01, 2013, 04:38:24 PM »
My question is: In your opinion is that a good or a bad thing? (That your society is based on the language of violence)
It isn't right or wrong... it simply is.

We are a warrior society from the very beginning. It's deeply embedded in our culture. It's just the way it is. IMHO very similar to Sparta or Rome.

Parker

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #93 on: February 01, 2013, 04:42:07 PM »
My question is: In your opinion is that a good or a bad thing? (That your society is based on the language of violence)
its bad...but, one could say the founding fathers were shown the language of violence...
13 little colonies were told, "either you do as I say, or we are going to come over their and eff you up! We will make you bend to our rules, and you will pay our taxes, no matter how high. You insolent little currs!"

You see what happens in effect is that it leads down a dark rabbit hole. Where only that one language is spoken, or only that voice is heard, or rather shouted.
Our society is out of balance, whether it be violence or other things. And that is where the focal point should be, the people, the eff ups, the thugs, the minions of wanton violence. Because if all they understand us violence, they in our society will be met with it. You take away their reasoning to use it, then you are effect helping to lower the problem.

Archer77

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #94 on: February 01, 2013, 04:42:59 PM »
My question is: In your opinion is that a good or a bad thing? (That your society is based on the language of violence)

All human civilizations are based in part on violence.  The strictly pacifist societies died off.  Europe can criticize the United States all it wants but it wasn't long ago that Europe was subjugating Africa and Asia by force and Germany was goose stepping across Europe.  Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
A

Metabolic

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #95 on: February 01, 2013, 04:44:09 PM »
It isn't right or wrong... it simply is.

We are a warrior society from the very beginning. It's deeply embedded in our culture. It's just the way it is. IMHO, similar to Sparta.

So you think it literally cannot be changed?




Shockwave

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #96 on: February 01, 2013, 04:47:17 PM »
So you think it literally cannot be changed?




I don't think it can be changed, no. At least, not in the way you are thinking. It permeates everything here, from the lowliest street thug to the very top of the corporate business' world. It's the kind of people that we are. One can simply look at our defense budget, and the fact that the vast majority of people support such ridiculous military spending to know this. (And this is coming from me, I am very pro-military, being a former Marine.)

Metabolic

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #97 on: February 01, 2013, 04:49:52 PM »
All human civilizations are based in part on violence.  The strictly pacifist societies died off.  Europe can criticize the United States all it wants but it wasn't long ago that Europe was subjugating Africa and Asia by force and Germany was goose stepping across Europe.  Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Cool story, bro, but Im not european, nor do I think I will ultimately convince you that violence is not the right way to this problems in a civil society.    
And yes, I do think war/violence has a place in humanity, I also think that theres some sort of contradiction in the idea that "in order to fight violence we need more violence".  if you think violence is itself good, then go ahead, I ultimately have nothing to say, but if you think that kids getting shot in schools is not good, then its time to rethink something.

Archer77

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #98 on: February 01, 2013, 04:52:47 PM »
Cool story, bro, but Im not european, nor do I think I will ultimately convince you that violence is not the right way to this problems in a civil society.    
And yes, I do think war/violence has a place in humanity, I also think that theres some sort of contradiction in the idea that "in order to fight violence we need more violence".  if you think violence is itself good, then go ahead, I ultimately have nothing to say, but if you think that kids getting shot in schools is not good, then its time to rethink something.

What you can extrapolate from the history of the most violent cultures that have ever existedis that they can change.
A

Shockwave

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Re: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting
« Reply #99 on: February 01, 2013, 04:53:15 PM »
Cool story, bro, but Im not european, nor do I think I will ultimately convince you that violence is not the right way to this problems in a civil society.    
And yes, I do think war/violence has a place in humanity, I also think that theres some sort of contradiction in the idea that "in order to fight violence we need more violence".  if you think violence is itself good, then go ahead, I ultimately have nothing to say, but if you think that kids getting shot in schools is not good, then its time to rethink something.
So what if you think that violence has it's place, but that it's not ok for kids to be getting killed? I think, considering the percentage of kids that get killed in mass shootings (no where near even a percentage point), that it's a fucking stupid argument. Just my .02.

Everyone is acting like their kids can't go to school because they're going to get shot up by some crazy, when you're probably more likely to get struck by lighting while getting raped by an aids ridden black man than you are of knowing a kid that got shot in school.