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Author Topic: BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting  (Read 2906 times)
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« Reply #75 on: February 01, 2013, 01:09:18 PM »

Extremely remote occurrence when compared to our total population.

I dont know the numbers, but the fact that its actually systematic and spread nationally should be mildly alarming.  Notice violence in general (be it of any nature) is a problem world wide, nothing new here, what calls my attention the most is that this particular type of violence is exacerbated with guns, irrational shooting to groups of people (its easier to mass murder with a gun than with say, a bat). Im not talking about hate crimes, nor organized criminals, no, shooting kids, shooting Uni students, shooting people at the fucking movies, do you not see how particular your situation is compared to other type of violence (for example, drug related?) This is violence qua violence, made easy because of lax gun legislation and poor social awareness and responsibility.

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We won't allow the government to trample peoples rights, to accommodate criminals.

Statistic for a "shitty" country like mine were released yesterday (www.emol.cl), all forms of violent crime have diminished, no chang ein gun control regulation.  Also, I am sick and tired of reading this "people´s rights" argument, you just dont understand that rights can and do change across the world.  Rights have an ethical grounding, and if you value more the right to own guns without the actual duty of education and responsibility, than social safety and peace well, you are free to be unreasonable.  

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I feel guilty, I have a gun I don't really need while you're not legally allowed to own one and you could probably really use it!  Sad
Why would I really use it? Why do you feel the need to lie about me? Does it give you peace of mind to lie to yourself thinking ERRYBODY NEEDS GUNZZZ TO BE HAPYY?
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« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2013, 01:14:26 PM »



We don't value the right to bear arms because we merely like guns.  I don't have much of an interest in guns.

It's an essential right because it empowers the individual.  As long as the right to bear arms is so relevant, it will stand.
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« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2013, 01:15:46 PM »

 Grin


* 480731_379690618781214_1160064255_n.jpg (30.64 KB, 366x480 - viewed 65 times.)
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« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2013, 01:27:00 PM »

You are so full of shit, you cannot prove that more guns = less violence.  This is what is absolutely insane about Gun Nutters, they simply don't understand basic mathematics.  If there is say 100 swimming pools in a small community of 10000 residents. And every year for 10 years 1 person drowns and dies in the pool, so over the course of 10 years, ten people drowned and died.  So, based on the law of averages you have a 1% fatality rate, now if everyone in that community gets a pool, you now have one hundred people dying per year, all based on an increase in pool ownership. The amount of fatalities is know 100 times greater than when it was when only a few people owned a pool. This simple equation applies with anything that cause fatalities, including guns.  More Guns equals MORE VIOLENCE and DEATH!

You guys live in some utopian modern day wild west fantasy world where every one carries a gun and the good guys always win the shoot out.  Dream on.  The fact remains, children will continue getting murdered by guns at embarrassing rates compared to the rest of the civilised industrialised world, Gun Nutters will continue to masturbate while holding their guns, and sociopathic Special interest groups like the NRA will continue to hold every one hostage, man woman and child.

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You are so full of shit, you cannot prove that more guns = less violence.  This is what is absolutely insane about Gun Nutters, they simply don't understand basic mathematics. 

more guns doesn't mean more violence Reading comprehension problem? and again prove your position DO NOT assert it.

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More Guns equals MORE VIOLENCE and DEATH!


Prove it , don't assert it. And nonsense

Fifty-five million kids went to school on the day that 20 were massacred at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut. Even in the United States, therefore, the chances of a child’s dying in a school shooting are remote. As my friend Steven Pinker demonstrates in his monumental study of human violence, The Better Angels of Our Nature, our perception of danger is easily distorted by rare events. Is gun violence increasing in the United States? No. But it certainly seems to be when one recalls recent atrocities in Newtown and Aurora. In fact, the overall rate of violent crime has fallen by 22 percent in the past decade (and 18 percent in the past five years).

300 million guns and the overall rate of violent crimes has FALLEN by 22 percent in the past 10 years , proof positive more guns does NOT mean more violence.  Wink

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You guys live in some utopian modern day wild west fantasy world where every one carries a gun and the good guys always win the shoot out.  Dream on.  The fact remains, children will continue getting murdered by guns at embarrassing rates compared to the rest of the civilised industrialised world, Gun Nutters will continue to masturbate while holding their guns, and sociopathic Special interest groups like the NRA will continue to hold every one hostage, man woman and child.

That's you projecting , no one thinks guns are the end all be all solution but your alternative of no one having them legally isn't the solution and it's immoral to suggest otherwise.

The NRA isn't shooting kids , keep blaming everyone and everything besides the lunatics who commit these atrocities. The only special interest groups who want to make it easily for murderers is the anti-gun lobby , who create ' gun free school zones ' which let mass murderers know in advanced they will go unopposed. They are complicit in these tragic events  

Keep outing yourself as an immoral person who wants to make things easier for mass murderers.  Wink
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« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2013, 01:27:12 PM »

We don't value the right to bear arms because we merely like guns.  I don't have much of an interest in guns.

This is an empirical matter, Id actually say that most, if not all, of the trigger-happy freaks do actually like guns and hence fight for lax legislation which will enble them to access all type of toys they fantasize about (very phallocentric by the way).

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It's an essential right because it empowers the individual.  As long as the right to bear arms is so relevant, it will stand.
It is an essential right because its in the bill of rights, which in turn has brooded in your folk a cultural legacy of gun-love.  When the folk themselves open their eyes and see that violence only brings more violence (and your kids pay with their life for it) you will be willing to ammend the constitution, just like almost every other country has done, changing constitutions to reflect the ethical imperatives of the time.  Until then, yes, you are completely free to suck the cock of the NRA and buy all the toys you want, I am not saying that you cant, I am saying that you SHOULDNT.

(And all illegal guns should be confiscated and all legal owners should take new, much harsher psychological tests followed by public education and awareness campaigns, in schools, in workplaces, everywhere.)
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« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2013, 01:27:26 PM »

clearly the gun lobby has a grip on the simple people in the USA.

You cant argue with simple people- you will never convince them because they just dont get it.

its like trying to explain numbers to a downy...he'll just try and hug you and then eat a moth.

i say deregulate aircraft and air traffic control..they dont kill many people, so lets just make it real easy for everyone to get them and they can fly them where ever they want, whenever they want...besides, its just the crazy plane owners who cause the problems.

and while on the topic- you dont want to pay for welfare but you are ok paying for the millions in costs everytime there is a shooting- not just a mass shooting?!

watching the US from the safety of my country is like watching a slow motion train wreck. ..i really feel sorry for you. ive been there many times and the poverty and violence is astounding. if it ever was the best place on earth, its not even close now...not by a long shot.



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« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2013, 01:31:17 PM »

clearly the gun lobby has a grip on the simple people in the USA.

You cant argue with simple people- you will never convince them because they just dont get it.

its like trying to explain numbers to a downy...he'll just try and hug you and then eat a moth.

i say deregulate aircraft and air traffic control..they dont kill many people, so lets just make it real easy for everyone to get them and they can fly them where ever they want, whenever they want...besides, its just the crazy plane owners who cause the problems.

and while on the topic- you dont want to pay for welfare but you are ok paying for the millions in costs everytime there is a shooting- not just a mass shooting?!

]watching the US from the safety of my country is like watching a slow motion train wreck. ..i really feel sorry for you[/b. ive been there many times and the poverty and violence is astounding. if it ever was the best place on earth, its not even close now...not by a long shot.




This is exactly how I feel, I love the US, have many friends there, and envy a lot of your culture, this particular aspect is really lacking though.
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« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2013, 01:32:37 PM »

I feel the same way about the 1st amendment - leave it the fuck alone!

clearly the gun lobby has a grip on the simple people in the USA.

You cant argue with simple people- you will never convince them because they just dont get it.

its like trying to explain numbers to a downy...he'll just try and hug you and then eat a moth.

i say deregulate aircraft and air traffic control..they dont kill many people, so lets just make it real easy for everyone to get them and they can fly them where ever they want, whenever they want...besides, its just the crazy plane owners who cause the problems.

and while on the topic- you dont want to pay for welfare but you are ok paying for the millions in costs everytime there is a shooting- not just a mass shooting?!

watching the US from the safety of my country is like watching a slow motion train wreck. ..i really feel sorry for you. ive been there many times and the poverty and violence is astounding. if it ever was the best place on earth, its not even close now...not by a long shot.




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« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2013, 01:34:27 PM »

I feel the same way about the 1st amendment - leave it the fuck alone!


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« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2013, 01:44:17 PM »

more guns doesn't mean more violence Reading comprehension problem? and again prove your position DO NOT assert it.
 

Prove it , don't assert it. And nonsense

Fifty-five million kids went to school on the day that 20 were massacred at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut. Even in the United States, therefore, the chances of a child’s dying in a school shooting are remote. As my friend Steven Pinker demonstrates in his monumental study of human violence, The Better Angels of Our Nature, our perception of danger is easily distorted by rare events. Is gun violence increasing in the United States? No. But it certainly seems to be when one recalls recent atrocities in Newtown and Aurora. In fact, the overall rate of violent crime has fallen by 22 percent in the past decade (and 18 percent in the past five years).

300 million guns and the overall rate of violent crimes has FALLEN by 22 percent in the past 10 years , proof positive more guns does NOT mean more violence.  Wink

That's you projecting , no one thinks guns are the end all be all solution but your alternative of no one having them legally isn't the solution and it's immoral to suggest otherwise.

The NRA isn't shooting kids , keep blaming everyone and everything besides the lunatics who commit these atrocities. The only special interest groups who want to make it easily for murderers is the anti-gun lobby , who create ' gun free school zones ' which let mass murderers know in advanced they will go unopposed. They are complicit in these tragic events  

Keep outing yourself as an immoral person who wants to make things easier for mass murderers.  Wink
Your nuttiness is right up there, to describe the regular inevitable mass shootings in America as RARE is absolutely INSANE.  Proof positive that you are truly of your rocker.  For a mass shooting to happen anywhere here in Australia is RARE, let alone at a school, and we haven't had a mass shooting for over 16 years.  You have the worst gun homicide and serious injury rate of all the Industrialised nations, that's because you have millions of gun owners, this is simple maths, of course unless your a semi literate gun owner of course.  I could post charts and statistics until the cows come home on this one simple fact, but to even argue that Americas homicide rate is way out of control, is a form on incredible denial and insanity, and I will not continue to enable ludicrousness.

The NRA may not be shooting KIDS, but they sure have enabled and promoted an environment were it is inevitable for these shootings to happen.   Hitler never personally killed anybody, but nobody would argue that he wasn't responsible for unimaginable suffering and death.  If you promote an ideology that leads to unnecessary homicide, the people are going to hold you to account.  For you to take some twisted moral high-ground that you have a right to continue enabling this very environment that sees many innocent people unnecessarily die is really perverse, it truly is reminiscent of the NAZIS blaming the JEWS for their own demise.
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« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2013, 02:04:59 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15KLhgZaRvc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15KLhgZaRvc</a>
^^^^^ More Gun Nutter propaganda.

A more realistic look......

On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania. By the time he was finished, he had killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It was the worst mass murder in Australia’s history.

Twelve days later, Australia’s government did something remarkable. Led by newly elected conservative Prime Minister John Howard, it announced a bipartisan deal with state and local governments to enact sweeping gun-control measures. A decade and a half hence, the results of these policy changes are clear: They worked really, really well.

At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia. The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase. (Self-defense did not count.) In the wake of the tragedy, polls showed public support for these measures at upwards of 90 percent.

What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.

There have been some contrarian studies about the decrease in gun violence in Australia, including a 2006 paper that argued the decline in gun-related homicides after Port Arthur was simply a continuation of trends already under way. But that paper’s methodology has been discredited, which is not surprising when you consider that its authors were affiliated with pro-gun groups. Other reports from gun advocates have similarly cherry-picked anecdotal evidence or presented outright fabrications in attempting to make the case that Australia’s more-restrictive laws didn’t work. Those are effectively refuted by findings from peer-reviewed papers, which note that the rate of decrease in gun-related deaths more than doubled following the gun buyback, and that states with the highest buyback rates showed the steepest declines. A 2011 Harvard summary of the research concluded that, at the time the laws were passed in 1996, “it would have been difficult to imagine more compelling future evidence of a beneficial effect.”

Whether the same policies would work as well in the United States—or whether similar legislation would have any chance of being passed here in the first place—is an open question. Howard, the conservative leader behind the Australian reforms, wrote an op-ed in an Australian paper after visiting the United States in the wake of the Aurora shootings. He came away convinced that America needed to change its gun laws, but lamented its lack of will to do so.

There is more to this than merely the lobbying strength of the National Rifle Association and the proximity of the November presidential election. It is hard to believe that their reaction would have been any different if the murders in Aurora had taken place immediately after the election of either Obama or Romney. So deeply embedded is the gun culture of the US, that millions of law-abiding, Americans truly believe that it is safer to own a gun, based on the chilling logic that because there are so many guns in circulation, one's own weapon is needed for self-protection. To put it another way, the situation is so far gone there can be no turning back.

That’s certainly how things looked after the Aurora shooting. But after Sandy Hook, with the nation shocked and groping for answers once again, I wonder if Americans are still so sure that we have nothing to learn from Australia’s example.
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« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2013, 02:05:49 PM »

how about we send the kids to school with guns so they can defend theyself
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« Reply #87 on: February 01, 2013, 02:22:42 PM »

If five people were breaking into my house, what am I supposed to do?  Huh
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« Reply #88 on: February 01, 2013, 02:25:11 PM »

If five people were breaking into my house, what am I supposed to do?  Huh

Sing Kumbaya and Give Peace a Chance
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« Reply #89 on: February 01, 2013, 02:26:32 PM »

Sing Kumbaya and Give Peace a Chance
Think they would leave if I offered them a slice of Jefferson Davis Pie and some Lemonade?
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« Reply #90 on: February 01, 2013, 02:54:01 PM »

If five people were breaking into my house, what am I supposed to do?  Huh
Your natural reaction (natural as, say, your "bodybuilding" status) would be to shoot em all, this I know because you have the "fight fire with fire" mentality.

What you should do if you had a more reasonable thinking would be to call the cops and avoid spreading exacerbated violence.  Now, dont get me wrong, I can see that in the current situation its very hard to act reasonably, this is why the government (whichever) is the first step to solving this insanity.
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« Reply #91 on: February 01, 2013, 03:56:19 PM »

Your nuttiness is right up there, to describe the regular inevitable mass shootings in America as RARE is absolutely INSANE.  Proof positive that you are truly of your rocker.  For a mass shooting to happen anywhere here in Australia is RARE, let alone at a school, and we haven't had a mass shooting for over 16 years.  You have the worst gun homicide and serious injury rate of all the Industrialised nations, that's because you have millions of gun owners, this is simple maths, of course unless your a semi literate gun owner of course.  I could post charts and statistics until the cows come home on this one simple fact, but to even argue that Americas homicide rate is way out of control, is a form on incredible denial and insanity, and I will not continue to enable ludicrousness.

The NRA may not be shooting KIDS, but they sure have enabled and promoted an environment were it is inevitable for these shootings to happen.   Hitler never personally killed anybody, but nobody would argue that he wasn't responsible for unimaginable suffering and death.  If you promote an ideology that leads to unnecessary homicide, the people are going to hold you to account.  For you to take some twisted moral high-ground that you have a right to continue enabling this very environment that sees many innocent people unnecessarily die is really perverse, it truly is reminiscent of the NAZIS blaming the JEWS for their own demise.


Quote
Your nuttiness is right up there, to describe the regular inevitable mass shootings in America as RARE is absolutely INSANE.  Proof positive that you are truly of your rocker.  For a mass shooting to happen anywhere here in Australia is RARE, let alone at a school, and we haven't had a mass shooting for over 16 years.  You have the worst gun homicide and serious injury rate of all the Industrialised nations, that's because you have millions of gun owners, this is simple maths, of course unless your a semi literate gun owner of course.  I could post charts and statistics until the cows come home on this one simple fact, but to even argue that Americas homicide rate is way out of control, is a form on incredible denial and insanity, and I will not continue to enable ludicrousness.

Mass shootings in America are exceedingly rare , regardless of what you type and don't even constitute the majority of deaths by firearms. It's only your perception of these types of events that's warped and I can always correct that with facts  Wink

Seventy mass shootings have occurred in the U.S. since 1982, leaving 543 dead. These crimes were horrific, but 564,452 other homicides took place in the U.S. during the same period. Mass shootings scarcely represent 0.1 percent of all murders. When talking about the problem of guns in our society, it is easy to lose sight of the worst violence and to become fixated on symbols of violence.

0.1% , I will type that again for our mentally challenged friends. ZERO-POINT-ONE% no matter what you type I will NOT let you escape facts  Wink

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but to even argue that Americas homicide rate is way out of control, is a form on incredible denial and insanity, and I will not continue to enable ludicrousness.

I said mass shootings are rare , not that our rate isn't high , stick to facts and stop responding to points no one if making. Two others rates of homicide are even higher and you are NOT complaining one bit , you're only harping on America, Three you don't fucking care one bit about any of the victims ( you've admitted this ) so you're only here to spew your anti-American/anti-gun bullshit out of not compassion but fear and some narcissistic belief that we should be and want to be like you and your country.


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The NRA may not be shooting KIDS, but they sure have enabled and promoted an environment were it is inevitable for these shootings to happen.   Hitler never personally killed anybody, but nobody would argue that he wasn't responsible for unimaginable suffering and death.  If you promote an ideology that leads to unnecessary homicide, the people are going to hold you to account.  For you to take some twisted moral high-ground that you have a right to continue enabling this very environment that sees many innocent people unnecessarily die is really perverse, it truly is reminiscent of the NAZIS blaming the JEWS for their own demise.

More anti-gun lobby bullshit , the NRA has never taken a position where they wanted criminals to have access to firearms , you're a liar. You can't even argue with any integrity , you can't formulate a rational argument because you're to emotional , you don't even live in this country , you don't even care about one single fucking victim of gun violence , this alone makes you despicable.

You're an immoral person who wants to take firearms away from law-abiding citizens and make it easier for mass murderers to rack up the counts. And Godwin's laws LMFAO it didn't take you long did it? You really need to learn how to form an argument because you're getting exposed for what you are , an overly emotion damaged adult with an irrational fear of guns obsessing over policies in another country while tying to act like you care about the great man when in fact you already said you didn't care one bit for any of the children who died , you're a despicable human when you use the bodies of 20 dead children to further your anti-gun agenda.

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« Reply #92 on: February 01, 2013, 04:06:50 PM »

Your natural reaction (natural as, say, your "bodybuilding" status) would be to shoot em all, this I know because you have the "fight fire with fire" mentality.

What you should do if you had a more reasonable thinking would be to call the cops and avoid spreading exacerbated violence.  Now, dont get me wrong, I can see that in the current situation its very hard to act reasonably, this is why the government (whichever) is the first step to solving this insanity.


Call the cops? that's no solution at all , it took the police TWENTY fucking minutes to respond from first getting the call at Sandy Hook , think about that 20 minutes that's astonishing. And it's asinine to wait for the police , who might I remind people are under NO legal right to respond to your call according to the supreme court ruling.


The reasonable thing to do is to be proactive and protect your family to suggest anyone is wrong for trying to do this is immoral and flat-out wrong. You don't want to do that , knock yourself out , however to suggest no one should you're high. Anyone who has the audacity to invade your home is crossing a grave line and should be dealt with accordingly.


 
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« Reply #93 on: February 01, 2013, 04:16:42 PM »

Call the cops? that's no solution at all , it took the police TWENTY fucking minutes to respond from first getting the call at Sandy Hook , think about that 20 minutes that's astonishing. And it's asinine to wait for the police , who might I remind people are under NO legal right to respond to your call according to the supreme court ruling.


The reasonable thing to do is to be proactive and protect your family to suggest anyone is wrong for trying to do this is immoral and flat-out wrong. You don't want to do that , knock yourself out , however to suggest no one should you're high. Anyone who has the audacity to invade your home is crossing a grave line and should be dealt with accordingly.


  

If you have followed the posts Ive made before this one, youd understand that I dont think you should go to jail for self-defense, nor that you are acting morally wrong on all accounts.  For the greater good of society, yes, people need to stop with the fight fire with fire idiocy.  Then again, as I posted before and will again, its in the hands of the government to confiscate illegal weapons and in the hands of the experts to draft a sane gun law, first step to a reformulation.  I understand what self-defense and acting-by-need is, but from each and every post Ive read in the hundreds of posts, you people dont think guns are a last resort or "acting by needs", you worship them and that delusion that the second ammendment is TRU FREEDZOMSSS.

If you could change the switch yourselves the next generation of kids would not pay by blood.

Also, theres different types of violence, each dealt in different ways (for example, violence in the masses -mass conducts-, violence related to drug crimes, violence related to power disputes, etc), the fact that you deny that this systematic irrational mass murdering, A PARTICULAR TYPE OF VIOLENCE, is a problem is hilarious.
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« Reply #94 on: February 01, 2013, 04:20:08 PM »

We need armed guards protecting armed guards who are protected by arm guards.
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« Reply #95 on: February 01, 2013, 04:44:21 PM »

Your natural reaction (natural as, say, your "bodybuilding" status) would be to shoot em all, this I know because you have the "fight fire with fire" mentality.

What you should do if you had a more reasonable thinking would be to call the cops and avoid spreading exacerbated violence.  Now, dont get me wrong, I can see that in the current situation its very hard to act reasonably, this is why the government (whichever) is the first step to solving this insanity.

What if the nearest law enforcement officer is 20 miles away, somewhere on the other side of the county?  This is a reality MANY in the United States face.  The majority of the United States is rural you know.
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« Reply #96 on: February 01, 2013, 04:55:23 PM »

What if the nearest law enforcement officer is 20 miles away, somewhere on the other side of the county?  This is a reality MANY in the United States face.  The majority of the United States is rural you know.

Do we agree that the US in terms of social security is fucked up? Yes, for now, self-defense or state of need is the only thing you can grab unto to defend you phallic toys.  Now, we all know NONE of you have ever mentioned any of those defenses in order to justify the possession of guns, you all have actually defended guns by the second ammendment and FREEDOMZZZ.

Hence, you are now in a disjunctive, either keep ramming with these fight fire with fire insanity and have more kids shot...or soak up some courage and (in a hypothetical case, where you had a decent government) change the second ammendment, initiate the confisctaion of all ilegal weapons (which of course will take time) and test all legitimate gun owners with harsh psychological tests, maybe even have rise the penalties for gun related homicides.

If you like the status quo right now, go ahead, keep fighting violence with more violence, keep the access to illegal weapons easy, its your kids who are getting shot, not mine.

If you dont like that REAL scenario, there is no other way around it buddy, someone has to start the change (no, this is not an Obama quote, I dont like him that much either).



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« Reply #97 on: February 01, 2013, 04:55:37 PM »

What you should do if you had a more reasonable thinking would be to call the cops and avoid spreading exacerbated violence. 
Yeah, fuck that. Do you have any idea how long it takes the Police to react to a call in most areas? Minimum of a half an hour. I'm not going to cower in the corner praying that the criminals are just going to take what they want and leave while the police are finger popping each others assholes.
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« Reply #98 on: February 01, 2013, 05:13:10 PM »

Do we agree that the US in terms of social security is fucked up? Yes, for now, self-defense or state of need is the only thing you can grab unto to defend you phallic toys.  Now, we all know NONE of you have ever mentioned any of those defenses in order to justify the possession of guns, you all have actually defended guns by the second ammendment and FREEDOMZZZ.

Hence, you are now in a disjunctive, either keep ramming with these fight fire with fire insanity and have more kids shot...or soak up some courage and (in a hypothetical case, where you had a decent government) change the second ammendment, initiate the confisctaion of all ilegal weapons (which of course will take time) and test all legitimate gun owners with harsh psychological tests, maybe even have rise the penalties for gun related homicides.

If you like the status quo right now, go ahead, keep fighting violence with more violence, keep the access to illegal weapons easy, its your kids who are getting shot, not mine.

If you dont like that REAL scenario, there is no other way around it buddy, someone has to start the change (no, this is not an Obama quote, I dont like him that much either).




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"Brothers and sisters, if you and I would just realize, that once we learn to talk the language that they understand, they will then get the point. You can't ever reach a man if you don't speak his language. If a man speaks the language of brute force, you can't come to him with peace. Why goodnight! He'll break you in two, as he has been doing all along. If a man speaks French, you can't speak to him in German. If he speaks Swahili, you can't communicate with him in Chinese. You have to find out, what does this man speak? Once you know his language, learn how to speak his language. He'll get the point, there will be some dialogue, some communication, and some understanding will be developed.
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« Reply #99 on: February 01, 2013, 05:14:05 PM »

^^^^^ More Gun Nutter propaganda.

A more realistic look......

On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania. By the time he was finished, he had killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It was the worst mass murder in Australia’s history.

Twelve days later, Australia’s government did something remarkable. Led by newly elected conservative Prime Minister John Howard, it announced a bipartisan deal with state and local governments to enact sweeping gun-control measures. A decade and a half hence, the results of these policy changes are clear: They worked really, really well.

At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia. The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase. (Self-defense did not count.) In the wake of the tragedy, polls showed public support for these measures at upwards of 90 percent.

What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.

There have been some contrarian studies about the decrease in gun violence in Australia, including a 2006 paper that argued the decline in gun-related homicides after Port Arthur was simply a continuation of trends already under way. But that paper’s methodology has been discredited, which is not surprising when you consider that its authors were affiliated with pro-gun groups. Other reports from gun advocates have similarly cherry-picked anecdotal evidence or presented outright fabrications in attempting to make the case that Australia’s more-restrictive laws didn’t work. Those are effectively refuted by findings from peer-reviewed papers, which note that the rate of decrease in gun-related deaths more than doubled following the gun buyback, and that states with the highest buyback rates showed the steepest declines. A 2011 Harvard summary of the research concluded that, at the time the laws were passed in 1996, “it would have been difficult to imagine more compelling future evidence of a beneficial effect.”

Whether the same policies would work as well in the United States—or whether similar legislation would have any chance of being passed here in the first place—is an open question. Howard, the conservative leader behind the Australian reforms, wrote an op-ed in an Australian paper after visiting the United States in the wake of the Aurora shootings. He came away convinced that America needed to change its gun laws, but lamented its lack of will to do so.

There is more to this than merely the lobbying strength of the National Rifle Association and the proximity of the November presidential election. It is hard to believe that their reaction would have been any different if the murders in Aurora had taken place immediately after the election of either Obama or Romney. So deeply embedded is the gun culture of the US, that millions of law-abiding, Americans truly believe that it is safer to own a gun, based on the chilling logic that because there are so many guns in circulation, one's own weapon is needed for self-protection. To put it another way, the situation is so far gone there can be no turning back.

That’s certainly how things looked after the Aurora shooting. But after Sandy Hook, with the nation shocked and groping for answers once again, I wonder if Americans are still so sure that we have nothing to learn from Australia’s example.

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^^^^^ More Gun Nutter propaganda.

And you respond with More Anti-gun Nutter propaganda , yet your position is some how the ' correct one '  Roll Eyes










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