BREAKING NEWS - Atlanta Middle School Shooting

[Metabolic]

What you can extrapolate from the history of the most violent cultures that have ever existedis that they can change.

CAN or CANīT?

[Shockwave]

CAN or CANīT?

I think he's saying that they can, using Europe as an example. I don't know how good of an example Germany is, because they didn't change until they got their ass handed to them and were FORCED to change.

[Archer77]

CAN or CANīT?

Can.  Vikings warriors turned into socialist.

[Shockwave]

Can.  Vikings warriors turned into socialist.

Lol......

[Metabolic]

So what if you think that violence has it's place, but that it's not ok for kids to be getting killed? I think, considering the percentage of kids that get killed in mass shootings (no where near even a percentage point), that it's a fucking stupid argument. Just my .02.

Everyone is acting like their kids can't go to school because they're going to get shot up by some crazy, when you're probably more likely to get struck by lighting while getting raped by an aids ridden black man than you are of knowing a kid that got shot in school.

Violence may have a place in terms of war, in terms of fighting for rights, rational violence (much like the Marxist war of the classes).  I can understand violence when it has a reason, a reason to fight for.  

Ive been very clear everytime I post that these IRRATIONAL SYSTEMATIC acts of violence obey to no logic, and thats what scary.  Now, if you dont consider them a potential threat, then this discussion between us is moot.  But, Ill state that IN MY CASE, I like living in this "shit hole" (coined by the lovely conehead resident fat powerlifter of the board) is good because this kind of irrational violence doesnt exist.  There, thats why I care and I like to debate this, so that maybe I can contribute to it not happenening here (that, and the fact that I like to argue).

[The True Adonis]

Do we agree that the US in terms of social security is fucked up? Yes, for now, self-defense or state of need is the only thing you can grab unto to defend you phallic toys.  Now, we all know NONE of you have ever mentioned any of those defenses in order to justify the possession of guns, you all have actually defended guns by the second ammendment and FREEDOMZZZ.

Hence, you are now in a disjunctive, either keep ramming with these fight fire with fire insanity and have more kids shot...or soak up some courage and (in a hypothetical case, where you had a decent government) change the second ammendment, initiate the confisctaion of all ilegal weapons (which of course will take time) and test all legitimate gun owners with harsh psychological tests, maybe even have rise the penalties for gun related homicides.

If you like the status quo right now, go ahead, keep fighting violence with more violence, keep the access to illegal weapons easy, its your kids who are getting shot, not mine.

If you dont like that REAL scenario, there is no other way around it buddy, someone has to start the change (no, this is not an Obama quote, I dont like him that much either).

I asked a simple fucking question and this is the answer I get?  

Again, "What if the nearest law enforcement officer is 20 miles away, somewhere on the other side of the county?  This is a reality MANY in the United States face.  The majority of the United States is rural you know."

[Metabolic]

Can.  Vikings warriors turned into socialist.

So wait, you are agreeing with me that violent societies can change? I think they can if they wanted to.

[Shockwave]

I asked a simple fucking question and this is the answer I get?  

Again, "What if the nearest law enforcement officer is 20 miles away, somewhere on the other side of the county?  This is a reality MANY in the United States face.  The majority of the United States is rural you know."

I've never seen an officer arrive on scene in less than 30 minutes.. and that is in a small rural town where the station was right down the road and not much going on.

In Houston, the police literally wouldn't respond to a call unless someone was seriously injured or dead (this was told to me by a Houston officer).

[Parker]

So you think it literally cannot be changed?

It can be modified, but as Shockwave pointed out, it will never go away.

And it won't happen overnight. And it won't happen in a Hope and Change way.

Cool story, bro, but Im not european, nor do I think I will ultimately convince you that violence is not the right way to this problems in a civil society.    

A "civil society"...
Lol, The Egyptians thought themselves a "civil society", yet they enslaved the jews
The Romans thought themselves a "civil society" and they enslaved the Greeks, and others.

The Spanish thought themselves a "civil society", yet they subjugated the Mayan,Aztecs, and Incans, using "God" but it was for greed and gold.

Seemingly all "civil societies" tend to believe in violent behavior or actions, and only preach non-violent behavior to societies or cultures that either are their match ("there is no need to fight, we can work together") or to those that they have subjugated---because "how dare you practice violence upon us?"

[Metabolic]

I asked a simple fucking question and this is the answer I get?  

Again, "What if the nearest law enforcement officer is 20 miles away, somewhere on the other side of the county?  This is a reality MANY in the United States face.  The majority of the United States is rural you know."

I answered the question with the "state of necessity".  Now follow the rest of the post and give a mildly reasonable answer that isnt an ad baculum quote of some mildly relevant US politic of the revolution.

[Shockwave]

So wait, you are agreeing with me that violent societies can change? I think they can if they wanted to.

Keywords - if they wanted to (or are forced to, i.e. post-WWII Germany/Japan).

[Metabolic]

It can be modified, but as Shockwave pointed out, it will never go away.

And it won't happen overnight. And it won't happen in a Hope and Change way. A "civil society"...
Lol, The Egyptians thought themselves a "civil society", yet they enslaved the jews
The Romans thought themselves a "civil society" and they enslaved the Greeks, and others.

The Spanish thought themselves a "civil society", yet they subjugated the Mayan,Aztecs, and Incans, using "God" but it was for greed and gold.

Seemingly all "civil societies" tend to believe in violent behavior or actions, and only preach non-violent behavior to societies or cultures that either are their match ("there is no need to fight, we can work together") or to those that they have subjugated---because "how dare you practice violence upon us?"

Civil in terms of civil law, not in terms of civilized.  A state of law society cannot allow for internal violence.

Again, I acknowledge its exists, but it has to be kept to the minimum necessary, keyword, necessary.

[Parker]

I think he's saying that they can, using Europe as an example. I don't know how good of an example Germany is, because they didn't change until they got their ass handed to them and were FORCED to change.

Sooo, basically the US needs a spanking (and sent to the corner) and forced to change?

[Metabolic]

Keywords - if they wanted to (or are forced to, i.e. post-WWII Germany/Japan).

But again, theres tons of americant that want to actually change it...I think its more polarized than you think, or youre just reluctant to accept that people can change, and ideas do move the world.  Im not saying it would be fast, but still.

[Metabolic]

Sooo, basically the US needs a spanking (and sent to the corner) and forced to change?

No, if you have followed my posts Ive stated time and time again thats its you that will decide, nobody will for you, and then again, if you dont want to, its your children that are getting slaughtered, not mine.

[Metabolic]

Fifty-five million kids went to school on the day that 20 were massacred at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut. Even in the United States, therefore, the chances of a child’s dying in a school shooting are remote. As my friend Steven Pinker demonstrates in his monumental study of human violence, The Better Angels of Our Nature, our perception of danger is easily distorted by rare events. Is gun violence increasing in the United States? No. But it certainly seems to be when one recalls recent atrocities in Newtown and Aurora. In fact, the overall rate of violent crime has fallen by 22 percent in the past decade (and 18 percent in the past five years).

This describes the problem to a T

Violence as a whole? Good

Systematic Mass Murdering? Not quite, stop pretending.

Also, it feels so damn good to be talking about these issues through the interwebs and not having a single thread of fear of them happening, remote is more than too much of a chance when I think about it, but good for you that "violent" mass shooting is "remote" for you.

[Metabolic]

Whose pretending? You can't control these events , you can't stop them. Deranged people hell bent in killing large number of people CAN NOT be stopped because of the simple fact is no one knows where or when they will strike.

And NO violent mass shootings aren't remote for me , they are remote period. It's a fact regardless of you like it or not. Don't shoot the messenger , pun intended.

Lol yes you can, thats the whole point of social awareness, campaigns in school, at work, in TV, etc (think responsible sex campaings, anti-tabacco propaganda, dont drink and drive, etc).  In fact, thats the whole point of EDUCATION, now if youre THAT stubborn that you dont believe education can change the veiws of the people, well, then we are forever condemned to never change anything.  Also, thats the point of confiscation and strict laws, but Ive already posted this 1000 times in past posts which you of course didnt read.

Anyhow, Im out for today, had a good time, Ill try and continue this dialogue tomorrow.  So long, gentlemen.

[Roger Bacon]

Ill state that IN MY CASE, I like living in this "shit hole"  is good because this kind of irrational violence doesnt exist.

I have absulutly zero fear of being shot, the chances are just too minute.  What I do fear though (and rightly so according to world history) is living in a society where the average man doesn't possess firearms.  Especially considering the United States is one of the last safe havens of gun ownership in the world.

Gun ownership is extremely high in my state, I believe we have the highest CCW in the US.  I don't know one person that's been shot ever. Do any American getbiggers personally know of an innocent person that's been killed by a gun?  I'd also bet that my state has a lower crime rate than yours.  Mass shootings are extremely concerning, but they certainly don't warrant taking away peoples essential rights.

It's ludicrous that you assume the United States is like the old west based on isolated incidences.  

[Shockwave]

Violence may have a place in terms of war, in terms of fighting for rights, rational violence (much like the Marxist war of the classes).  I can understand violence when it has a reason, a reason to fight for.  

Ive been very clear everytime I post that these IRRATIONAL SYSTEMATIC acts of violence obey to no logic, and thats what scary.  Now, if you dont consider them a potential threat, then this discussion between us is moot.  But, Ill state that IN MY CASE, I like living in this "shit hole" (coined by the lovely conehead resident fat powerlifter of the board) is good because this kind of irrational violence doesnt exist.  There, thats why I care and I like to debate this, so that maybe I can contribute to it not happenening here (that, and the fact that I like to argue).

Don't you live in Brazil?

[Roger Bacon]

When the Democratic Governor of Montana claims that any Federal government ban on the right to bear arms will not take hold in his State or when the Republican Governor of Texas says that there are sections of the Obamacare law that will not hit the ground in his State, they are not espousing a new, radical and revolutionary theory of American self-governance. They are speaking from an over 200 year history that traces its roots back to the Founding of our great nation and codified by the pens of none other than Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. They are the kernels of the coming restoration of America.

 

[Roger Bacon]

Do we agree that the US in terms of social security is fucked up?

If you're referring to the fact that we're moving towards more socialistic policies aimed at redistribution of wealth, than yes... We do agree.

When legal immigration outnumbers so many other countries combined, it doesn't make very much sense to mimic the economic policies of the countries they're fleeing.