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Author Topic: USA listens to devil's whispers, wants to ruin world  (Read 13019 times)
OzmO
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« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2013, 05:55:09 PM »

The one thing that hasn't changed is human nature.

I'm not saying all these guys predicting the collapse have any real validity, just that it is inevitable. Every great empire throughout history has fallen. To think that we're somehow different because of our culture or technology, IMHO, is incredibly arrogant.

I don't think that at all.  What i am asking for is actual argument based on actual fact that's it happening now.  Not fear based CT or antidotes.  
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2013, 05:58:06 PM »

A person needs to understand the political climate this is leading to.
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2013, 06:01:12 PM »

In the last 12 years i have been through a security line at least 4-8 times a month if not more.  Not lucky.  I just live reality. 

You understand that you can be detained for willfully disregarding the direction under such circumstances, don't you?  If you behave in the way that you've indicated here, then you have been lucky.
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OzmO
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« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2013, 06:02:23 PM »

A person needs to understand the political climate this is leading to.



Man, you are something else.  

You suggest we are losing rights that are leading to our demise and you can't even list them

You suggest that getting busted for a belt in a TSA line will lead to a symbolic cavity search which to me, someone who ACTUALLY travels quite a lot is a laugher.

Now you are blabbering about political climates?

Are you capable of constructing an actual argument?
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OzmO
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« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2013, 06:03:15 PM »

You understand that you can be detained for willfully disregarding the direction under such circumstances, don't you?  If you behave in the way that you've indicated here, then you have been lucky.

Have you ever been to an airport and flew on a plane in this century Jack?
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Shockwave
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« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2013, 06:05:04 PM »



Man, you are something else.  

You suggest we are losing rights that are leading to our demise and you can't even list them

You suggest that getting busted for a belt in a TSA line will lead to a symbolic cavity search which to me, someone who ACTUALLY travels quite a lot is a laugher.

Now you are blabbering about political climates?

Are you capable of constructing an actual argument?
The invasion of privacy bothers me more than anything, I think. The fact that we allow them to go so far on others without any real opposition (of which I'm just as guilty as anyone).
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OzmO
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« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2013, 06:17:04 PM »

The invasion of privacy bothers me more than anything, I think. The fact that we allow them to go so far on others without any real opposition (of which I'm just as guilty as anyone).

Exactly what invasion?

What has been added since 9/11?

So far we have the NDAA and warrant-less wiretapping (something that conservatives seem to wholeheartedly support when BUSH was in office)

I am ignorant to anything else.  Please list them and explain how they are significant in our near pending demise:
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2013, 06:18:06 PM »

Have you ever been to an airport and flew on a plane in this century Jack?

Absolutely.  It has become an entirely different experience since 911, almost beyond description, and it's almost stupefying to me that it isn't obvious to everyone.

If you're telling me that you are refusing an agent's commands at the airport, and you don't feel it's unusual that you haven't yet been detained or flagged, then I don't know what to say.
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« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2013, 06:22:12 PM »

Exactly what invasion?

What has been added since 9/11?

So far we have the NDAA and warrant-less wiretapping (something that conservatives seem to wholeheartedly support when BUSH was in office)

I am ignorant to anything else.  Please list them and explain how they are significant in our near pending demise:
Patriot act, NDAA, warrantless wiretaps, xray scanners, TSA in general (i've not experienced it, but I know people that have, that have been pulled off and stripped searched for no apparent reason), police pulling people over and demanding to see their phone (worked with a guy that they did that too, they thought he was waiting for a dealer but in reality he was waiting for his wife to drop off his son, then they tried to ticket him for being on a cell phone while driving, even though he was parked), the list goes on.
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OzmO
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« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2013, 06:22:46 PM »

Absolutely.  It has become an entirely different experience since 911, almost beyond description, and it's almost stupefying to me that it isn't obvious to everyone.

If you're telling me that you are refusing an agent's commands at the airport, and you don't feel it's unusual that you haven't yet been detained or flagged, then I don't know what to say.

I am not telling you that.  go back and re-read what i posted.

I did not tell you that i refused to take my belt off when caught.  I simply told you i go through the image scanner all the time with my belt on and have been caught only a few times out of hundreds.  I take it off, they put it through the xray i go through scanner again, end of story.  Same with liquids, projectors, laptops etc.  

Based on your answer here, i doubt you have flown since 9/11.
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Shockwave
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« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2013, 06:25:57 PM »

Oh, and the recent internet act that got passed irks me, basically gives the government free reign to your information under the guise of "preventing e-terrorism". I think it's worded in such a way that it "Makes it possible for companies to share information that the government deems as possible e-terrorism threats.".

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OzmO
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« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2013, 06:28:51 PM »

Patriot act, NDAA, warrantless wiretaps, xray scanners, TSA in general (i've not experienced it, but I know people that have, that have been pulled off and stripped searched for no apparent reason), police pulling people over and demanding to see their phone (worked with a guy that they did that too, they thought he was waiting for a dealer but in reality he was waiting for his wife to drop off his son, then they tried to ticket him for being on a cell phone while driving, even though he was parked), the list goes on.

Some of this stuff has happened before with cops.  Nothing new.  We have new government agencies vying for relevance.  

The biggest changes after 9/11 was access to gates, and the image scanner.  Other then that the TSA crap is pretty trivial.  If you really look at, most of it is to make people feel safe.  

The NDAA is big, but its not relevant in the USA only outside.

What provisions of the partriot act have stripped us of freedoms we use to have?

How are those invading our privacy?
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OzmO
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« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2013, 06:30:42 PM »

Oh, and the recent internet act that got passed irks me, basically gives the government free reign to your information under the guise of "preventing e-terrorism". I think it's worded in such a way that it "Makes it possible for companies to share information that the government deems as possible e-terrorism threats.".

Nice one, forgot that one.  Do you think however, that something like this is natural with the rise of the internet and the crimes that can be staged on it?  Or are you saying its part of the planned progression for a totalitarian state?
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« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2013, 06:35:44 PM »

These are things i knew had happened.  I was hoping someone who believed the sky was failing could actually list them.  Is that all there is?

I am very much against these things, but do these things indicate we are heading towards fascism?  I think not.

if you are accused of being a enemy combatant in the USA you still have rights do you not?  Its only that way if abroad right?




Not sure about the enemy combatant.

Fascism?  Probably not....at least not in my lifetime.

However, I do think that cops are now and incrementally using an unacceptable level of force against citizens and needs to stop immediately.
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Shockwave
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« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2013, 06:36:41 PM »

Nice one, forgot that one.  Do you think however, that something like this is natural with the rise of the internet and the crimes that can be staged on it?  Or are you saying its part of the planned progression for a totalitarian state?
I think it's a natural progression, I don't think the government is "planning" a totalitarian takeover exactly, I just think that what we're doing in the name of "safety" is laying the groundwork for someone to take advantage of it down the road (Not saying it's a planned groundwork, just that these things may come back to bite us in the ass if the wrong person gets into office)
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #65 on: February 19, 2013, 06:37:46 PM »

I am not telling you that.  go back and re-read what i posted.

I did not tell you that i refused to take my belt off when caught.  I simply told you i go through the image scanner all the time with my belt on and have been caught only a few times out of hundreds.  I take it off, they put it through the xray i go through scanner again, end of story.  Same with liquids, projectors, laptops etc.  

Based on your answer here, i doubt you have flown since 9/11.

So when you say this:

went through one yesterday.  they told me to take my belt off.  I didn't and went through anyway.  I do this shit all the time.
TSA =  Joke

You didn't mean to say that?
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2013, 06:43:27 PM »

OzmO, I get what you're saying.  You tried to make it sound more badass than it really was. 

If you are ever flagged for anything, I guarantee you will change your opinion in a hurry.  I'd hope it wouldn't take something like that to make you understand, but whatever it takes, I suppose...
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #67 on: February 19, 2013, 06:51:18 PM »

Nice one, forgot that one.  Do you think however, that something like this is natural with the rise of the internet and the crimes that can be staged on it?  Or are you saying its part of the planned progression for a totalitarian state?

The two are conveniently intertwined, aren't they?
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #68 on: February 19, 2013, 06:54:34 PM »

Would it be fair to say that an entity with an interest in totalitarianism would have an interest in committing crime?
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #69 on: February 19, 2013, 06:55:55 PM »

That's why I love communicating with you, Oz.
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OzmO
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« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2013, 07:00:15 PM »

So when you say this:

You didn't mean to say that?

No, this why i think you haven't traveled since 9/11.

They tell people as they are putting their stuff on the x-ray to take their belts off.  They look right at you and say it.   I go OK, and don't.  when busted:  "oops ha ha forgot"   No cavity searches lol
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OzmO
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« Reply #71 on: February 19, 2013, 07:02:05 PM »

The two are conveniently intertwined, aren't they?

So is an alien take over.   Without actual facts or decent arguments, its pure fantasy.  which is my point here.
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OzmO
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« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2013, 07:02:31 PM »

Would it be fair to say that an entity with an interest in totalitarianism would have an interest in committing crime?

So would aliens and the chess club.
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OzmO
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« Reply #73 on: February 19, 2013, 07:04:11 PM »

I think it's a natural progression, I don't think the government is "planning" a totalitarian takeover exactly, I just think that what we're doing in the name of "safety" is laying the groundwork for someone to take advantage of it down the road (Not saying it's a planned groundwork, just that these things may come back to bite us in the ass if the wrong person gets into office)

That's the fear, but it isn't evidence of the progression of our demise.

these things are put in place to encourage commerce.  We are what we are as a nation because of commerce.  Commerce must be protected.
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OzmO
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« Reply #74 on: February 19, 2013, 07:05:34 PM »

Its all a dam joke, like the no-fly list.  Easy to beat.  Anyone with a printer and photo-shop can do it.
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