RONNIE BEATS ME, quote from Dorian Yates

[MisterGX]

wrong! Insulin has changed! It's much faster acting now and a lot easier to control. Drugs have improved and will continue to improve

Big deal.  Insulin isn't a make/break drug to obtain size or improve conditioning.  An argument can be made that when it comes specifically to conditioning, Dorian was better conditioned (drier/granier) than Ronnie.  The drugs don't matter as much as you think.

[MisterGX]

And as far as the most muscular pose is concerned I would say Yates in 95 beats Ronnie 01 ASC take a look

It has been debated many times that the '95 Dorian Yates was unbeatable by any Mr. O (including the '93 Yates).  I've seen that tape many times along with the '03 Coleman---and I have to say it is very close.  My pick-----DORIAN

[pumpster]

Anyone who thinks it's close i have a bridge to sell to Yates groupies.

[GMCtrk]

wrong! Insulin has changed! It's much faster acting now and a lot easier to control. Drugs have improved and will continue to improve

 Insulin isn't a make/break drug to obtain size or improve conditioning. 

You are kidding right? Insulin is hormone that revolutionized bodybuilding into the mass game we know it as today.

[migchain]

The truth is:  Coleman never beat Dorian when both competed at same show. Never! As Dorian never beat haney when they was competing at same show.
 Right now coleman´s physique is not better than Dorian´s , it´s just different. We live in a different era now.  If we put  teh top guys of today with the top guys of 15 years ago and compare them it´s clear that today´s bbers have better physiques.  And if we compare the physiques this way,   we can say that Arnold is nobody in Bodybuilding because the quality of his physique is very poor near yates or Coleman, or Cormier...

sorry for the bad english

[Hulkster]

I have never been to a Mr. Olympia as I live about 2000 miles from the closest one ( I live in the frozen tundra otherwise known as Canada)

However, I fail to see how that is relevant in refuting some of the ridiculous claims made in this thread, such as:

-Dorian has more detailed hamstrings than Ronnie
-Dorian has more detailed and better deltoids than Ronnie
-Dorian dryer thigh mass than Ronnie.
-etc etc.

You don't have to have been to a Mr. Olympia contest to see that these are false statements.
You just have to open your eyes!

the truth is, pics don't do ANY of these guys justice. I remember when I saw my first Pro up close (Nimrod King) and I remember him commenting on how he had weak calves.

well, his calves looked like cantaloupes to me!

[Jean Paul Gaultier]

People debate this    Never ceases to amaze me.

The specialty of BOTH is MASS MASS MASS, the only difference between the two of them is that Ronnie makes Dorian look like a school girl.

Now if you wanted to debate whether or not Frank Zane beats Ronnie, you could pull out that apples and oranges shit, but with Dorian and Ronnie the tiebreaker is size and Ronnie has much more of it than Dorian ever had, and ever could have had.

EXACTLY, now all these closet dorian homos need to stfu and go back to jerking off to his pictures.

[Hulkster]

I think Hulkster just had his first melftdown lol the most overrated bodybuilder of all time ? thats a meltdown statement if there ever was , some log the date and time call the EMTs lol come on Hulkster its one thing to say you think Ronnie would beat him head to head but to say " the most overrated of all time " thats about the dumbest thing you've said thus far.

If this was 93 Flex ( which Yates beat at the Olympia ) or 91 Haney ( which Yates beat in the musculairty round ) or 94 Shawn Ray ( Shawn said he got the place he deserved in 94 ) so that argument falls short , and whats funny is you'll swear up and down that a much smaller Shawn could beat Dorian yet scoff at the idea of a Dex even comming close to Ronnie always claiming Dex isn't even in Ronnie's leauge .

I'm going to hold a candleight vigle for you Hulkster and we'll all pray for your quick recovery lol

Horrible taper in the words of the late great ODB " guy Please "

no, that argument does not fall short because;

1. Flex 93 was soft compared to Flex 93 Arnold Classic
2. dorian lost to Haney (notably in the relaxed round due to his horrible taper)
3. I don't think anyone really believes that Dorian deserved to win that night.

And as far as taper goes, you keep posting lat spread shots to back up your point - well duh! His wide waist/obliques are crunched up with his hands.

He normally looks like this;


as I stated in my "rant" before: Dorian, esp. from the front, was nothing special. Sure he had great calves and lats, but his quads lack any detail at all, his arms and chest are overpowered by his lats and huge legs (which lack good sweep and shape by the way) etc etc.

dorian was the most successful overrated bodybuilder of all time.

[Hulkster]

People debate this    Never ceases to amaze me.

The specialty of BOTH is MASS MASS MASS, the only difference between the two of them is that Ronnie makes Dorian look like a school girl.

Now if you wanted to debate whether or not Frank Zane beats Ronnie, you could pull out that apples and oranges shit, but with Dorian and Ronnie the tiebreaker is size and Ronnie has much more of it than Dorian ever had, and ever could have had.

i dissagree with you there matt:  both have mass, but only Ronnie has the shape, taper and vascularity to go with it.

This can be easily seen in that embarrasing most muscular comparison.

[pumpster]

Thanks to Weider Yates still lingers..Otherwise the question would be how Dillet or Flex compare with Ron, but they weren't considered marketable enough.

[suckmymuscle]

EXACTLY, now all these closet dorian homos need to stfu and go back to jerking off to his pictures.

  Yet, you're the one who's chosen the name of a gay fashion stylist, as your username . Go figure!

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Oliver Klaushof]

ha ha. We already owned these fools. The pics don't lie. Side by side comparison shows Dorian in all his glory. Dorian has mass and perfect conditioning. Dorian is the greatest bodybuilder of all time. I won't even touch the Dillet or Markas comment.  Ronnie just looks like a water buffalo. Embarrassing really. If Ronnie could ever get as dry as Dorian he would weigh 260 pounds with a bloated stomach that makes his chest look flat as a flapjack.

Fact - Dorian BEAT Ronnie. Ronnie never beat Dorian. If he was never injured he would have continued to grow - because Dorian was the most disciplined champion ever. The greatest.

The End.

[suckmymuscle]

People debate this    Never ceases to amaze me.

The specialty of BOTH is MASS MASS MASS, the only difference between the two of them is that Ronnie makes Dorian look like a school girl.

Now if you wanted to debate whether or not Frank Zane beats Ronnie, you could pull out that apples and oranges shit, but with Dorian and Ronnie the tiebreaker is size and Ronnie has much more of it than Dorian ever had, and ever could have had.

  So Ronnie makes Dorian look like a schoolgirl? Funny...Dorian was 274 lbs, at 2% bodyfat on the 97 O. Ronnie was FAT(6% bodyfat) at the 2004 O, and had at least 10 lbs of water under his skin. Pound for pound, square inch per square inch, Dorian actually carries more mass than Ronnie. When you also consider the conditioning with which he presents this mass, you realize that Dorian is vastly superior to Coleman. Try to understand something, cun ts:Ronnie looks like SHIT above 260 lbs. Ronnie's best was at the 99 O, hen he came in at 250 lbs. Both at the 2003 and 2004 Olympias, Ronnie had shoulders and traps that were too big for his chest, and a shoulder girdle that was pathetically small for his humongous waist. Furthermore, his conditioning and density SUCKS. Despite his mass, he has a pretty noy look, instead of Dorian, who looked like he was etched in stone.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Oliver Klaushof]

Come on...Dorian was never 274.  Maybe 260 at best.  And Ronnie was bone dry at 287 in 2003.  I think he hit 292 at the night show.  That is about 30 pounds more than Dorian.

Coleman was never 290 pounds on stage. He still looks like shit. He still never beat Dorian. He still looks like a water buffalo with a beer gut.

[suckmymuscle]

Come on...Dorian was never 274.  Maybe 260 at best.  And Ronnie was bone dry at 287 in 2003.  I think he hit 292 at the night show.  That is about 30 pounds more than Dorian.

  At the pre-judging of the 1997 O, Dorian weighed in at 266 lbs. By the night show, he had gained 8 lbs, while still maintaining his bodyfat level at 2%. If you don't believe me, check the October, 1997, issue of Flex. It has the weight of all competitors, written by Peter McGough and with commentary by Jim Schmaltz. Also, I was at the 97 O and...Dorian made Nasser look tiny, even though Nasser also was around 270 lbs. By the way, during his career, Dorian defeated several 280+ lbs guys, like Dillet, Aaron Backer and Jean-Pierre Fux. So much for the weight difference tipping the scales, in favor of Ronnie!

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[GMCtrk]

I have never been to a Mr. Olympia as I live about 2000 miles from the closest one ( I live in the frozen tundra otherwise known as Canada)

However, I fail to see how that is relevant in refuting some of the ridiculous claims made in this thread, such as:

-Dorian has more detailed hamstrings than Ronnie
-Dorian has more detailed and better deltoids than Ronnie
-Dorian dryer thigh mass than Ronnie.
-etc etc.

You don't have to have been to a Mr. Olympia contest to see that these are false statements.
You just have to open your eyes!

the truth is, pics don't do ANY of these guys justice. I remember when I saw my first Pro up close (Nimrod King) and I remember him commenting on how he had weak calves.

well, his calves looked like cantaloupes to me!

So if you are trying to prove to me that Ronnie at his best, vs. dorian at his best I am supposed to give you credibility over someone who has seen both in competition at the O? Like I said before, if the 2005 olympia was judged sitting at home on the internet Jay Cutler would have won.

[nicorulez]

Suckymuscle, I thought you were smarter than that. When did they do an official weigh in for the Olympia. That is total horseshit.  Everyone knows that. BTW, to state that Ronnie was 6% bodyfat is laughable. You are obviously not a medical professional. All of these BB in shape get down to 4% or so.  That is fact done by Hydrodensitometry Weighing; that means you weigh the person under water.  It is much more accurate than calipers. The only thing close is a new DEXA scan meaurement, but the hydrodensitometry measurement is the gold standard.  Once again, you speak about that which you have no clue.  Ronnie in 2003 was definitely not 6% bodyfat; take a look of some unbiased pictures if you would.  Face it, they were both great. You prefer Yates; others prefer Ronnie. Let it go. BTW, show me a reliable link stating 2% bodyfat for Dorian that year. You speak out of your ass.  You probably don't like Ronnie because he is not the brightest bulb in the universe. Hell, I have heard Dorian speak and he is not a rocket scientist either. BTW, I have been to Mr. Olympia's and Ronnie is hands down the largest in shape BB alive. Dorian was awesome, but I was there when he got hammered by Haney. Nobody in the crowd was upset; Haney was amazing that year. 

[GMCtrk]

Suckymuscle, I thought you were smarter than that. When did they do an official weigh in for the Olympia. That is total horseshit.  Everyone knows that. BTW, to state that Ronnie was 6% bodyfat is laughable. You are obviously not a medical professional. All of these BB in shape get down to 4% or so.  That is fact done by Hydrodensitometry Weighing; that means you weigh the person under water.  It is much more accurate than calipers. The only thing close is a new DEXA scan meaurement, but the hydrodensitometry measurement is the gold standard.  Once again, you speak about that which you have no clue.  Ronnie in 2003 was definitely not 6% bodyfat; take a look of some unbiased pictures if you would.  Face it, they were both great. You prefer Yates; others prefer Ronnie. Let it go. BTW, show me a reliable link stating 2% bodyfat for Dorian that year. You speak out of your ass.  You probably don't like Ronnie because he is not the brightest bulb in the universe. Hell, I have heard Dorian speak and he is not a rocket scientist either. BTW, I have been to Mr. Olympia's and Ronnie is hands down the largest in shape BB alive. Dorian was awesome, but I was there when he got hammered by Haney. Nobody in the crowd was upset; Haney was amazing that year. 

We need more of these type of replies. Excellent.

[Hedgehog]

everytime someone mentions dorian's most muscular pose, someone posts that pic.

but to be honest, I am not impressed at all.  The only think that jumps out at me in that shot is Dorian's amazing calves.

but looks at his arms and quads: they have almost NO seperation at all.

that is not what a most muscular pose is supposed to look like.


its amazing what a little shape, seperation and vascularity can do, isn't it?

Bro, you have to get out of that misconception of yours that Ronnie was at his best at the ASC 

It's basically the Bernal pics taken after the show that makes it look that way IMO.

Ronnie was incredible in 97, 98, early 99.

He should be a three time Mr O, IMO. Last year is the third title I think he deserves, but very questionable. 99? Cormier IMO.

Ronnie at his all time best was easily better than Dorian though IMO. No question about it.

I don't hate Coleman, just don't like his current physique. He was great throughout the whole 90's, and got shafted repeatedly by the judges until 1998 really.

YIP
Zack

[suckmymuscle]

Suckymuscle, I thought you were smarter than that. When did they do an official weigh in for the Olympia. That is total horseshit.  Everyone knows that. BTW, to state that Ronnie was 6% bodyfat is laughable. You are obviously not a medical professional. All of these BB in shape get down to 4% or so.  That is fact done by Hydrodensitometry Weighing; that means you weigh the person under water.  It is much more accurate than calipers. The only thing close is a new DEXA scan meaurement, but the hydrodensitometry measurement is the gold standard.  Once again, you speak about that which you have no clue.  Ronnie in 2003 was definitely not 6% bodyfat; take a look of some unbiased pictures if you would.  Face it, they were both great. You prefer Yates; others prefer Ronnie. Let it go. BTW, show me a reliable link stating 2% bodyfat for Dorian that year. You speak out of your ass.  You probably don't like Ronnie because he is not the brightest bulb in the universe. Hell, I have heard Dorian speak and he is not a rocket scientist either. BTW, I have been to Mr. Olympia's and Ronnie is hands down the largest in shape BB alive. Dorian was awesome, but I was there when he got hammered by Haney. Nobody in the crowd was upset; Haney was amazing that year. 

  First of all, the athletes DO have their eights measured, before the competition starts. You have never heard of a weight-in? Don't take me for my word:check out the October, 1997 issue of Flex Magazine and Peter McGough mentions the weight of every bodybuilder. In fact, the commentary that Dorian weighed 266 lbs and then ballooned to 274 lbs, by the night show, is written word for ord in the magazine; if McGough said it, I believe it.

  I am also sorry to disappoint you, but hydrostatic measuring is no longer the gold-standard of body composition measurement. Today, elite athletes are using magnetic ressonance, with infra-red rays to contrast, as the most accurate measure of body composition. Sorry that you thought I was smarter than that; it just so happens that it's easy to impress the unintelligent...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Hedgehog]

BTW, I have been to Mr. Olympia's and Ronnie is hands down the largest in shape BB alive.

Yo!

Whatcha talkin' bout... Greg Kovacs is the biggest bodybuilder alive!!! He dwarves Dorian Yates and Ronnie Coleman!!!! I've read that in Musclemag!!!

Kovacs, 400 lbs YO!!!

YIP
Zack

[suckmymuscle]

Yo!

Whatcha talkin' bout... Greg Kovacs is the biggest bodybuilder alive!!! He dwarves Dorian Yates and Ronnie Coleman!!!! I've read that in Musclemag!!!

Kovacs, 400 lbs YO!!!

YIP
Zack

  HA HA! Yeah, Kovacs... ;DI wonder what happened to that f**cker. I think he's probably locked in some zoo, ater the authorities mistook him for a silverback gorilla. Kovacs at 440 lbs. Damn!

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NarcissisticDeity]

People debate this    Never ceases to amaze me.

The specialty of BOTH is MASS MASS MASS, the only difference between the two of them is that Ronnie makes Dorian look like a school girl.

Now if you wanted to debate whether or not Frank Zane beats Ronnie, you could pull out that apples and oranges shit, but with Dorian and Ronnie the tiebreaker is size and Ronnie has much more of it than Dorian ever had, and ever could have had.

The question posed was on their respective best days who would win , its widely requarded that the 2001 Arnold Classic is Coleman's very best day he was 245lbs Dorians best day is the Kevin Horton B&W photos just before the 1993 Mr Olympia at 269lbs , so Coleman would have NO size advantage and 2003 he was 287lbs and 20lbs of it was in his gut and his overall package was no where near as good as the 01 ASC .

[NarcissisticDeity]

no, that argument does not fall short because;

1. Flex 93 was soft compared to Flex 93 Arnold Classic
2. dorian lost to Haney (notably in the relaxed round due to his horrible taper)
3. I don't think anyone really believes that Dorian deserved to win that night.

And as far as taper goes, you keep posting lat spread shots to back up your point - well duh! His wide waist/obliques are crunched up with his hands.

He normally looks like this;


as I stated in my "rant" before: Dorian, esp. from the front, was nothing special. Sure he had great calves and lats, but his quads lack any detail at all, his arms and chest are overpowered by his lats and huge legs (which lack good sweep and shape by the way) etc etc.

dorian was the most successful overrated bodybuilder of all time.

The meltdown continues lol You keep posting the pics of Yates from the 94 Olympia to prove your point he has no taper and its nonsense , the pics  I post of him to any latspread showcase an amazing V-taper for you to say otherwise proves you're in meltdown mode , lets see if Yates has " no taper " as you claim why is it he doesn't look Jay Cutler in the ab-thigh shot? I thought so and he isn't scunching his fists into his waist to make his waist tiny like to state  oh and do you find it odd " the most overrated bodybuilder of all time " beat the very best bodybuilder of all time in the musculairty round in his FIRST Mr Olympia , for you to say Coleman would beat him head to head is one thing to say he is the most overrated of all time proves you're a little to emotionally wrapped up in this and are in meltdown mode , I'm sure there are support groups out there for you lol maybe ZachG can help.

No taper lol yup looks just like Cutler in this pic lol

[XL™]

dorian looked great at certain points, ronnie looked/looks better.


ronnie at his best is much better than dorian ever was, simple as that.  even dorian realizes this, i dont see why some of you losers cant.