RONNIE BEATS ME, quote from Dorian Yates

[BroadStreetBruiser]

Lennox Lewis.

 

isn't he canadian?

[dearth]

So Ronnie doesn't have calves?  Watch the Cost of Redemption.  His calves are easily among the biggest in the history of bodybuilding! 

Ha Ha Ha Ha

[Double XL™]

Ronnie is lacking in too many areas to beat Dorian.  Ronnie's a dominant champion today, but we've taken a couple steps back from 10 years ago.  Dorian had a combination of grainy dense conditioning, size, structure, and balance that has never been equaled. 

what a laughable post.

[onlyme]

Dorian was talking about Ronnie beating him right now.  The way Dorian looks today and what Ronnie looks like today.

[Double XL™]

Dorian was talking about Ronnie beating him right now.  The way Dorian looks today and what Ronnie looks like today.

haha ok "onlyme"  so you're saying that dorian was saying he's only 15lbs behind ronnie cause he said ronnie outweighs him by 15 lbs remember. so i guess he must be talking about himself at the current moment cause hes definitly over 270lbs right?

[suckmymuscle]

  All these scenarios are theoretical. All we know, for sure, it that The Yates defeated Ronnie innumerable times, while the reverse is not true. The best of The Shadow v the best of Ronnie? I'd still give it to Dorian, based on his superior density, tightness, conditioning and better calves, traps and hamtrings. Dorian's lats are still thicker than Ronnie's-even though he has matched Dorian, for width-, and Yates had that crazy detail, there, that Ronnie can only dream of. This is just my opinion, though.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[sculpture]

Dorian was talking about Ronnie beating him right now.  The way Dorian looks today and what Ronnie looks like today.

Moronic................. .again.

[GMCtrk]

You all don't give Dorian enough credit. In 1993 he absolutely destroyed Flex Wheeler in the greatest shape of his life. Even Flex acknowledges that. And we all know that a '93 version of Flex would have beaten ronnie in 98...

[Hulkster]

and ronnies back(when hes not fucking depleted as f**k like in 02 when that pic was taken)still fucking destroys yates back.

Here is what his back looks like when its not depleted!


Dorian who?

[Oliver Klaushof]

Lennox Lewis.

 

Shut up fool. Our blacks will always defeat your blacks.

[Oliver Klaushof]

haha ok "onlyme"  so you're saying that dorian was saying he's only 15lbs behind ronnie cause he said ronnie outweighs him by 15 lbs remember. so i guess he must be talking about himself at the current moment cause hes definitly over 270lbs right?

Ronnie Coleman has never been over 270 pounds. Don't be so gullible.

[Hulkster]

I love how you say " I don't want to turn this into a Dorian vs Ronnie tread "  but its exactly what you want , everytime someone mentions anyone you have this compulsion to say Ronnie is better its bizzare , anyway your logic is once again flawed you cling to this idea that because Ronnie has a smaller waist he would automatically have a giant advantage over Yates thats his trump card lol its not , not in the least Yates beat pleany of men with smaller waists like I've said Flex & Shawn , Oh wait you said they couldn't match Yates size , he outright beat Paul Dillet who surpassed Dorians size and had probably the best V-taper in the history of bodybuilding , so there goes your theory 

At their respective peaks both had size , shape , yes Yates has some better shapped muscles compared to Ronnie and vice a versa , Dorian had better conditioning & balance and this is where Dorian would edge out Ronnie , I've brought this up before if you see Ronnie's small waist as such an advantage why doesn't his front latspread look as good as Dorians? with his much superior V-taper lol Dorian has the better balance & proportion and simply looks better in most of the mandatory poses.

Now Chic asked Dorian a best ever Dorian vs a best ever Ronnie , Dorian basically said they judges would go with Ronnie based on a weight advantage , but here is what is funny its widely akownleged that 2001 Arnold Classic Ronnie is his best ever and I believe he was 245lbs and Yates said even with his torn bicep 1995 Mr Olympia is his best ever contest shape , his best ever condition his the pics of him by Kevin Horton at 269lbs , anyway since Dorian was basing the judges giving Ronnie the edge because of a 15-20lb weight advantage , perhaps the judges would give the nod to Yates based on a weight advantage at the 95 O Yates was 255lbs , Yates was basing the theorical edge on Ronnie's competive weight of now an days and everyone knows Ronnie of late is no where near as great as 01 ASC Ronnie.

When push comes to shove its all speculation but facts are facts , Yates has beaten the guy with probably the best V-taper in history , he has better balance & conditon , he simply looks better than Ronnie is most on the mandatory poses and he was only been beaten by 2 men in the history of the sport and he avenged that loss to one of them and beat the other in the musculairty round and he was one of the greatest Mr Olympia ever .

oh come on ND. You are claiming that because Dorian beat Paul fuckin' Dillett (who has mass and taper) that he would beat Ronnie?

come on!

the argument about Ronnie's taper vs. Dorians taper is totally correct for following reasons:

1. Paul Dillett was nowhere near in the same class as Shawn Ray or Flex Wheeler at their peaks (so the fact that Dorian beat Paul has no bearing on how he would do against Ronnie).

2. Paul had no back. (he had loads of potential, but never realized it).

so, the argument still holds true: Dorian never EVER faced anyone with the size, taper and collection of bodyparts that Ronnie has.

He faced smaller, better tapered guys and overwhelmed them with a large weight advantage.

In Ronnie, he would face some with with a better taper, just as much mass, and no weight advantage, and, unlike Flex and Shawn, a complete back that rivals Dorian's.

Why is this not difficult to understand?

Dorian dominated smaller guys. In facing ronnie, his main advantage would be lost.

ronnie would:

- match dorian in mass
-have a better taper
-rival if not beat his back
-be far more striated than Dorian ever was

Seems like dorian would have one hell of a time with ronnie.

[Hulkster]

Ronnie Coleman has never been over 270 pounds. Don't be so gullible.

hmmm. if you look at the 04 Russian grand prix pics with Ronnie and Kris Dim standing side by side, that means that Kris Dim wasn't anything over 126 pounds!

[Oliver Klaushof]

How tall is Dorian?

[Palpatine Q]

There are things I don't like about both of them. They both leave a lot to be desired when it comes to aesthetics and proportion. Ronnie's missing calves, Dorian's missing (actually MISSING) a bicep. Both of their midsections are wierd looking. Ronnie is bigger, Dorian was harder. I think it's a tossup.

[Hulkster]

Oh f**k off! Even you don't believe that one picture shows how someone is 'destroyed' by another in a contest? How about that classic picture of Cutler/Coleman in the '01 Mr O (where Jay is flexing and Ronnie relaxed with an uber-gut)? That *proved* Jay destroyed Ronnie that year too, right?

I concur that 1997 Dorian wasn't his best shape, but the day Milos beats Dorian in the actual competition is the day Allen Iverson leads the NBA in field goal percentage. If he'd finished second or third, you'd have a point. But he was tenth. And no 10th-placed Mr Olympia contestant in history deserved to beat the actual winner.

you are absolutely right. Milos would never beat Dorian in competition.  But that pic, if it is ever found, illustrates what many on this board think:

Dorian, when viewed from the front, was nothing special. (other than his lats of course).

But his taper and quad seperation were really really bad in some contests.

For example, why is it that Dorian's quads look completely different than most other bodybuilders?




on most bodybuilders, you can see all of the muscle groups on the upper thigh. On Dorian, you never could.

This is why I have always felt that dorian's quads were a MAJOR weakness when viewed from the front.

and it is flaws like this that make it possible for a barely top 10 Mr. Olympia competitor (at least back then in 1997) to look better than the six time champ from the front.

Sorry, but its true.

[sculpture]

Yates quads in fact are strange - the rectus femoris? or muscles beside the teardrops insert very high or infact not at all, giving the impression dorian actually lacks the muscles. You can't flaw the mans hams or calves but he definelty lacks the outer sweep and quad flair of other bbers

[Hulkster]

Yates quads in fact are strange - the rectus femoris? or muscles beside the teardrops insert very high or infact not at all, giving the impression dorian actually lacks the muscles.

exactly - this is a major, major flaw since it is so unique among top bodybuilders.

the more you look at it, the more and more advantages that someone like ronnie would have against Dorian become apparent..

actually, the quad flaw should have cost Yates points against smaller guys like shawn:


but it didn't because Yates was so much more massive, the judges didn't care.

it should be obvious that the same trick would not work against Ronnie.

[NarcissisticDeity]

oh come on ND. You are claiming that because Dorian beat Paul fuckin' Dillett (who has mass and taper) that he would beat Ronnie?

come on!

the argument about Ronnie's taper vs. Dorians taper is totally correct for following reasons:

1. Paul Dillett was nowhere near in the same class as Shawn Ray or Flex Wheeler at their peaks (so the fact that Dorian beat Paul has no bearing on how he would do against Ronnie).

2. Paul had no back. (he had loads of potential, but never realized it).

so, the argument still holds true: Dorian never EVER faced anyone with the size, taper and collection of bodyparts that Ronnie has.

He faced smaller, better tapered guys and overwhelmed them with a large weight advantage.

In Ronnie, he would face some with with a better taper, just as much mass, and no weight advantage, and, unlike Flex and Shawn, a complete back that rivals Dorian's.

Why is this not difficult to understand?

Dorian dominated smaller guys. In facing ronnie, his main advantage would be lost.

ronnie would:

- match dorian in mass
-have a better taper
-rival if not beat his back
-be far more striated than Dorian ever was

Seems like dorian would have one hell of a time with ronnie.

So according to you " Dorian never EVER faced anyone with the size, taper and collection of bodyparts that Ronnie has."

Wrong , Dorian in his first Mr Olympia otright BEAT Lee Haney in the musculairty round , and guess what Lee Haney had a much better V-taper and a much smaller waist than Dorian , oh and Haney was 250lbs about 5lb heavier than an all-time best 01 ASC Ronnie and Haney had a great collection of bodyparts that included , one of the best chests ever , one of the best backs , great delts and awesome triceps oh not to mention full diamond shape calves , so your theory about a better V-taper being an advantage falls short as well as the statement " Dorian never EVER faced anyone with the size , taper and collection of bodyparts that Ronnie has " 

And Dorian did face bigger guys than him again wrong again , Nasser El Sonbaty outweighed Yates , as did Paul Dillet , and Jean Pierre Fux , Ian Harrison  , as well as beating much smaller and aesthetic guys .

As respective bests , Dorian would outweigh Ronnie by 10lbs have better balance & proportion , and conditioning , he even has those ass-striations you love  and would win by virtue of looking better & more complete in the mandatory poses , whats funny if you go on about Ronnie's " much superior taper " yet it does nothing for him when it counts in the front latspread , Dorian has everything Ronnie has an more , Yates is a winner , he has only been beaten twice and he beat Momo to avenge that loss and he beat Haney in the muscularity round something no one was able to do he dented the greatest Mr Olympia armor , he beat Flex Wheeler in 93 with straight firsts Ronnie just barely beat Flex in probably the closest Mr Olympia ever , Ronnie was beaten by almost everyone on the pro circuit , granted he wasn't at his best but he is very beatable , Yates entered 17 Pro contests and won 15 of them , Ronnie entered 45 Pro contests and won 26 , lets see Yates has a 88% win rate and Ronnie has 57% win rate , Ronnie has been competing Professionaly for 12 years , Yates competed for for 7 , now I'm not saying it would be a blow-out but I am saying Yates would edge out Coleman once again.

[NarcissisticDeity]

exactly - this is a major, major flaw since it is so unique among top bodybuilders.

the more you look at it, the more and more advantages that someone like ronnie would have against Dorian become apparent..

actually, the quad flaw should have cost Yates points against smaller guys like shawn:


but it didn't because Yates was so much more massive, the judges didn't care.

it should be obvious that the same trick would not work against Ronnie.

I love how you pick-up on small things and very dramatically declare " this is a major major flaw " lol I'll be the first to admit that Yates didn't have upper quad sepration like Samir Bannout , however if you want to use that as an advantage for Coleman knock yourself out then I'll counter with Coleman not having full developed Satorius muscle of the upper thighs , in fact not many Pro did to the extent Yates did , check it out in this pic , you can clearly see how well developed it is , sick sick separtion , in his quads.

[Dr. Xavier]

Dorian has grossly overdeveloped vastus medialis and lateralis and has grossly underdeveloped rectus femoris. His vastus muscles are so overdeveloped they actually touch. Very strange quad development, but Dorian’s always been an overachiever with average genetics (at least compared to Ronnie anyway).

Unfortunately, he also shows poor tricep development as well has hamstring mass in that pic. he's a great overachiever, but when a guy is dieted down as much has he his and he still dosen't have much quad sweep and separation, that unfortunately is a genetic thing and can't be changed. Shawn Ray and Platz are guys that have the "cuts" in the quads that Dorian dosen't.  Again, it's due to their genetics. You could probably take the skin off of Dorian's thighs and he still wouldn't have the cuts that Shawn Ray has (or Ronnies for that matter).

[Hulkster]

I love how you pick-up on small things and very dramatically declare " this is a major major flaw " lol I'll be the first to admit that Yates didn't have upper quad sepration like Samir Bannout , however if you want to use that as an advantage for Coleman knock yourself out then I'll counter with Coleman not having full developed Satorius muscle of the upper thighs , in fact not many Pro did to the extent Yates did , check it out in this pic , you can clearly see how well developed it is , sick sick separtion , in his quads.

wrong:

[NarcissisticDeity]

Dorian has grossly overdeveloped vastus medialis and lateralis and has grossly underdeveloped rectus femoris. His vastus muscles are so overdeveloped they actually touch. Very strange quad development, but Dorian’s always been an overachiever with average genetics (at least compared to Ronnie anyway).

Unfortunately, he also shows poor tricep development as well has hamstring mass in that pic. he's a great overachiever, but when a guy is dieted down as much has he his and he still dosen't have much quad sweep and separation, that unfortunately is a genetic thing and can't be changed. Shawn Ray and Platz are guys that have the "cuts" in the quads that Dorian dosen't.  Again, it's due to their genetics. You could probably take the skin off of Dorian't thighs and he still wouldn't have the cuts that Shawn Ray has.

I laughed when I read " average genetics " that was funny !

[Hulkster]

So according to you " Dorian never EVER faced anyone with the size, taper and collection of bodyparts that Ronnie has."

Wrong , Dorian in his first Mr Olympia otright BEAT Lee Haney in the musculairty round , and guess what Lee Haney had a much better V-taper and a much smaller waist than Dorian , oh and Haney was 250lbs about 5lb heavier than an all-time best 01 ASC Ronnie and Haney had a great collection of bodyparts that included , one of the best chests ever , one of the best backs , great delts and awesome triceps oh not to mention full diamond shape calves , so your theory about a better V-taper being an advantage falls short as well as the statement " Dorian never EVER faced anyone with the size , taper and collection of bodyparts that Ronnie has " 

And Dorian did face bigger guys than him again wrong again , Nasser El Sonbaty outweighed Yates , as did Paul Dillet , and Jean Pierre Fux , Ian Harrison  , as well as beating much smaller and aesthetic guys .

As respective bests , Dorian would outweigh Ronnie by 10lbs have better balance & proportion , and conditioning , he even has those ass-striations you love  and would win by virtue of looking better & more complete in the mandatory poses , whats funny if you go on about Ronnie's " much superior taper " yet it does nothing for him when it counts in the front latspread , Dorian has everything Ronnie has an more , Yates is a winner , he has only been beaten twice and he beat Momo to avenge that loss and he beat Haney in the muscularity round something no one was able to do he dented the greatest Mr Olympia armor , he beat Flex Wheeler in 93 with straight firsts Ronnie just barely beat Flex in probably the closest Mr Olympia ever , Ronnie was beaten by almost everyone on the pro circuit , granted he wasn't at his best but he is very beatable , Yates entered 17 Pro contests and won 15 of them , Ronnie entered 45 Pro contests and won 26 , lets see Yates has a 88% win rate and Ronnie has 57% win rate , Ronnie has been competing Professionaly for 12 years , Yates competed for for 7 , now I'm not saying it would be a blow-out but I am saying Yates would edge out Coleman once again.

I stand corrected: you are completely correct: Dorian HAS faced someone with the size, shape, bodyparts and taper that ronnie had: Lee Haney.

AND HE LOST!

I rest my case.

[Dr. Xavier]

[I laughed when I read " average genetics " that was funny !

Dorian's got several impressive bodyparts, but respect to his quad genetics, yep it is funny...