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Author Topic: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?  (Read 7274 times)
Howard
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« on: December 29, 2005, 03:25:04 PM »

A good analogy on this issue is bench pressing with high tech bench shirt vs without.
One top guy is Scott Mendelson who can bench  a bit over 700 raw but can do a good 200 lbs more with the shirt. Therefor we can conclude a really top guy can expect 20-25% more wt in the shirt.
I would be interested in what is the actual size difference on drugs vs natural.
My guess would be it might be ablout the same as the infamous bench shirts of today, a good 20-25%.
Take Ronnie who competes at 270-280 range in most shows now. He was natural enough to pass the drug test twice to win the hvy wt IFBB Universe in 1991 at a little over 210. With another decade of training with his awesome genetics he could be 220-225 lbs drug free, a difference of 50 lbs aprox. This is aprox the 20-25% extra a bench shirt gives to a powerlifter. Look at the top hvy wts at the Team U, like Skip Lacour, they weigh a good 50 lbs less than Guys like Ronnie or Jay.
I think this estimate is reasonable, what do you think?
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FroZZoR
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2005, 03:26:04 PM »

Your threads are always gay and super long. Why not just get to the part where you post pictures of hippo's and of you playing on the playground?

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Beyond Genetics
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2005, 03:30:10 PM »

I would say about 20%
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BayGBM
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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2005, 03:34:09 PM »

I would say about 20%

40-50%
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Borracho
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2005, 03:38:02 PM »

-32.88% EXACTLY
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chafed_nut_sack420
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2005, 03:38:35 PM »

I would say about 20%

I think its close to that.

Maybe 20-30 % with exceptions.
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Howard
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2005, 03:41:23 PM »

40-50%

That seems pretty high of a %. That means a 190 lb natural could weigh 350 or more on drugs Huh
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FroZZoR
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2005, 03:42:52 PM »

Your threads are always gay and super long. Why not just get to the part where you post pictures of hippo's and of you playing on the playground?


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usa86
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2005, 03:53:43 PM »

That seems pretty high of a %. That means a 190 lb natural could weigh 350 or more on drugs Huh

190 X 50% = 95 lbs

95 + 190 = 285

not sure where 350 lbs came from as that would be closer to 84%
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BayGBM
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2005, 03:54:50 PM »

That seems pretty high of a %. That means a 190 lb natural could weigh 350 or more on drugs Huh

Iím not just thinking of bodyweight, bench press or things of that sort.  Iím thinking of ALL the things that ALL supplements add to the contest physuque.  If they had to rely simply on food and no supplements of ANY kind--even diuretics and similar products they would look very different that what we are used to seeing.

Think for a moment about how radically different pros today look from pros from the 70s.  Now, recall that in the 70s they were using mild dosages of supplements.  Now imagine ALL the supplements are gone.  With just food and training left I stand by 40-50%.
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Borracho
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2005, 03:57:39 PM »

190 X 50% = 95 lbs

95 + 190 = 285

not sure where 350 lbs came from as that would be closer to 84%

hahahahahahah

And this guy is supposed to be a teacher. 
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Beyond Genetics
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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2005, 08:04:58 PM »

190 X 50% = 95 lbs

95 + 190 = 285

not sure where 350 lbs came from as that would be closer to 84%

Actually, in reality we shouldn't even be counting the first 100lbs of skeleton, organs, skin, and fat.

What we really have in a 195lb person is maybe 95lbs of muscle.
so if they were to increase their musle size by 50% it would only be about 50lbs.

Putting the individual only at 245lbs.


To answer your question this is what you must do.
Find the weight of the top drug free heavyweight pro's around 235 I imagine.
Find the weight of the top Heavyweight Pros using drugs, around 300 I imagine.

230-100 for organs, skeleton, fat, etc. = 130lbs
65lbs, the difference between pros and drug free happens to be 50% of 130

It seems, at least with this not so scientific equation, that BayGBM may be right with his 40-50% guess.
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mwbbuilder
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« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2005, 08:11:23 PM »

I don't think there are any natural bodybuilders who are 5'7" or so and 235 ripped.
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Cavalier22
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« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2005, 08:17:14 PM »

howard what do you teach?

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« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2005, 08:23:37 PM »

A good analogy on this issue is bench pressing with high tech bench shirt vs without.
One top guy is Scott Mendelson who can bench  a bit over 700 raw but can do a good 200 lbs more with the shirt. Therefor we can conclude a really top guy can expect 20-25% more wt in the shirt.
I would be interested in what is the actual size difference on drugs vs natural.
My guess would be it might be ablout the same as the infamous bench shirts of today, a good 20-25%.
Take Ronnie who competes at 270-280 range in most shows now. He was natural enough to pass the drug test twice to win the hvy wt IFBB Universe in 1991 at a little over 210. With another decade of training with his awesome genetics he could be 220-225 lbs drug free, a difference of 50 lbs aprox. This is aprox the 20-25% extra a bench shirt gives to a powerlifter. Look at the top hvy wts at the Team U, like Skip Lacour, they weigh a good 50 lbs less than Guys like Ronnie or Jay.
I think this estimate is reasonable, what do you think?


Your numbers don't make any sense. Even if Ronnie had 100 lb of muscle before juicing, an increase of 50 lb would correspond to a 50% increase in muscle mass.
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hahahahahahahahahahahaha
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« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2005, 08:28:06 PM »

DOES ANYONE REALLY GIVE A FAT FROGS ASS!! Cheesy
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14 WORDS
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« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2005, 09:45:10 PM »

37.573174% give or take.... I just called Hany and Chad they both agreed.       
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Loomis
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« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2005, 10:52:50 PM »

People react differently to gear, so it's impossiblte to really say. If I had to guess an average, I'd say a natural guy whose at the top of his genetic limit could put on at least another 10-20% of his current lean weight with moderate juicing. So a 200lb guy could get to 220-240.
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SupplementGuy
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« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2005, 12:41:59 AM »

whatever the difference between craig now and when he was competing...
SG Roll Eyes
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Oliver Klaushof
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« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2005, 12:50:30 AM »

whatever the difference between craig now and when he was competing...
SG Roll Eyes

haha. You beat me to it.
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blinky
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« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2005, 01:15:29 AM »

People react differently to gear, so it's impossiblte to really say. If I had to guess an average, I'd say a natural guy whose at the top of his genetic limit could put on at least another 10-20% of his current lean weight with moderate juicing. So a 200lb guy could get to 220-240.
this is a pretty good answer. are you talking pure lean muscle?  you have to remember that alot of the weight u put on is water.
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Oliver Klaushof
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« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2005, 01:21:19 AM »

50% sounds accurate to me.
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Beyond Genetics
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« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2005, 04:35:49 AM »

I don't think there are any natural bodybuilders who are 5'7" or so and 235 ripped.

And I don't think there are any pros who are 5'7" or so and 300lbs ripped.

I was referring to the biggest guys, 5'10" and up.
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3Dkiller
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« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2005, 05:38:00 AM »

i dont believe in making muscles with naturel traing.
Naturel training is bullshit.
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TEAM WOLF
body88
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« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2005, 08:41:38 AM »

DOES ANYONE REALLY GIVE A FAT FROGS ASS!! Cheesy

wtf are you posting on a message board for?Huh Discussing bodybuilding related shit is the point of the whole board c*nt  knocker



40 percent drugs
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