Author Topic: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?  (Read 12901 times)

Howard

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% of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« on: December 29, 2005, 02:25:04 PM »
A good analogy on this issue is bench pressing with high tech bench shirt vs without.
One top guy is Scott Mendelson who can bench  a bit over 700 raw but can do a good 200 lbs more with the shirt. Therefor we can conclude a really top guy can expect 20-25% more wt in the shirt.
I would be interested in what is the actual size difference on drugs vs natural.


Beyond Genetics

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2005, 02:30:10 PM »
I would say about 20%

BayGBM

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2005, 02:34:09 PM »

Borracho

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2005, 02:38:02 PM »
-32.88% EXACTLY
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chafed_nut_sack420

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2005, 02:38:35 PM »
I would say about 20%

I think its close to that.

Maybe 20-30 % with exceptions.

usa86

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2005, 02:53:43 PM »
That seems pretty high of a %. That means a 190 lb natural could weigh 350 or more on drugs ???

190 X 50% = 95 lbs

95 + 190 = 285

not sure where 350 lbs came from as that would be closer to 84%

BayGBM

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2005, 02:54:50 PM »
That seems pretty high of a %. That means a 190 lb natural could weigh 350 or more on drugs ???

I’m not just thinking of bodyweight, bench press or things of that sort.  I’m thinking of ALL the things that ALL supplements add to the contest physuque.  If they had to rely simply on food and no supplements of ANY kind--even diuretics and similar products they would look very different that what we are used to seeing.

Think for a moment about how radically different pros today look from pros from the 70s.  Now, recall that in the 70s they were using mild dosages of supplements.  Now imagine ALL the supplements are gone.  With just food and training left I stand by 40-50%.

Borracho

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2005, 02:57:39 PM »
190 X 50% = 95 lbs

95 + 190 = 285

not sure where 350 lbs came from as that would be closer to 84%

hahahahahahah

And this guy is supposed to be a teacher. 
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Beyond Genetics

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2005, 07:04:58 PM »
190 X 50% = 95 lbs

95 + 190 = 285

not sure where 350 lbs came from as that would be closer to 84%

Actually, in reality we shouldn't even be counting the first 100lbs of skeleton, organs, skin, and fat.

What we really have in a 195lb person is maybe 95lbs of muscle.
so if they were to increase their musle size by 50% it would only be about 50lbs.

Putting the individual only at 245lbs.


To answer your question this is what you must do.
Find the weight of the top drug free heavyweight pro's around 235 I imagine.
Find the weight of the top Heavyweight Pros using drugs, around 300 I imagine.

230-100 for organs, skeleton, fat, etc. = 130lbs
65lbs, the difference between pros and drug free happens to be 50% of 130

It seems, at least with this not so scientific equation, that BayGBM may be right with his 40-50% guess.

mwbbuilder

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2005, 07:11:23 PM »
I don't think there are any natural bodybuilders who are 5'7" or so and 235 ripped.

Cavalier22

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2005, 07:17:14 PM »
howard what do you teach?

Valhalla awaits.

brianX

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2005, 07:23:37 PM »
A good analogy on this issue is bench pressing with high tech bench shirt vs without.
One top guy is Scott Mendelson who can bench  a bit over 700 raw but can do a good 200 lbs more with the shirt. Therefor we can conclude a really top guy can expect 20-25% more wt in the shirt.
I would be interested in what is the actual size difference on drugs vs natural.
My guess would be it might be ablout the same as the infamous bench shirts of today, a good 20-25%.
Take Ronnie who competes at 270-280 range in most shows now. He was natural enough to pass the drug test twice to win the hvy wt IFBB Universe in 1991 at a little over 210. With another decade of training with his awesome genetics he could be 220-225 lbs drug free, a difference of 50 lbs aprox. This is aprox the 20-25% extra a bench shirt gives to a powerlifter. Look at the top hvy wts at the Team U, like Skip Lacour, they weigh a good 50 lbs less than Guys like Ronnie or Jay.
I think this estimate is reasonable, what do you think?


Your numbers don't make any sense. Even if Ronnie had 100 lb of muscle before juicing, an increase of 50 lb would correspond to a 50% increase in muscle mass.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha

BGSLVOWNR

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2005, 07:28:06 PM »
DOES ANYONE REALLY GIVE A FAT FROGS ASS!! :D
14 WORDS

fathead

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2005, 08:45:10 PM »
37.573174% give or take.... I just called Hany and Chad they both agreed.       

Loomis

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2005, 09:52:50 PM »
People react differently to gear, so it's impossiblte to really say. If I had to guess an average, I'd say a natural guy whose at the top of his genetic limit could put on at least another 10-20% of his current lean weight with moderate juicing. So a 200lb guy could get to 220-240.

SupplementGuy

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2005, 11:41:59 PM »
whatever the difference between craig now and when he was competing...
SG ::)

Oliver Klaushof

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2005, 11:50:30 PM »
whatever the difference between craig now and when he was competing...
SG ::)

haha. You beat me to it.
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blinky

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2005, 12:15:29 AM »
People react differently to gear, so it's impossiblte to really say. If I had to guess an average, I'd say a natural guy whose at the top of his genetic limit could put on at least another 10-20% of his current lean weight with moderate juicing. So a 200lb guy could get to 220-240.
this is a pretty good answer. are you talking pure lean muscle?  you have to remember that alot of the weight u put on is water.
4

Oliver Klaushof

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2005, 12:21:19 AM »
50% sounds accurate to me.
"Shut the F up and train"

Beyond Genetics

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2005, 03:35:49 AM »
I don't think there are any natural bodybuilders who are 5'7" or so and 235 ripped.

And I don't think there are any pros who are 5'7" or so and 300lbs ripped.

I was referring to the biggest guys, 5'10" and up.

3Dkiller

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2005, 04:38:00 AM »
i dont believe in making muscles with naturel traing.
Naturel training is bullshit.
TEAM WOLF

body88

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2005, 07:41:38 AM »
DOES ANYONE REALLY GIVE A FAT FROGS ASS!! :D

wtf are you posting on a message board for???? Discussing bodybuilding related shit is the point of the whole board c*nt  knocker



40 percent drugs

blinky

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2005, 07:49:26 AM »
wtf are you posting on a message board for???? Discussing bodybuilding related shit is the point of the whole board c*nt  knocker



40 percent drugs
c*nt knocker?......... LMAO ;D


thats a new one but i love it
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Loomis

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2005, 11:45:42 AM »
this is a pretty good answer. are you talking pure lean muscle?  you have to remember that alot of the weight u put on is water.
I'm saying a guy that competes at 200 ripped and dry could now compete at 220-240 with the same conditioning.

suckmymuscle

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Re: % of actual size drugs give top bodybuilders?
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2005, 12:24:45 PM »
I’m not just thinking of bodyweight, bench press or things of that sort.  I’m thinking of ALL the things that ALL supplements add to the contest physuque.  If they had to rely simply on food and no supplements of ANY kind--even diuretics and similar products they would look very different that what we are used to seeing.

Think for a moment about how radically different pros today look from pros from the 70s.  Now, recall that in the 70s they were using mild dosages of supplements.  Now imagine ALL the supplements are gone.  With just food and training left I stand by 40-50%.


  Nope. I think supplements don't do shit, besides protein powders. Just my opinion.

SUCKMYMUSCLE