Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
October 20, 2014, 04:30:59 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: "A bodybuilding workout is not an endurance contest."  (Read 2968 times)
Yev33
Getbig III
***
Posts: 856


« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2013, 01:10:05 AM »

There was a time in the 60's and 70's when bodybuilders and powerlifters were athletes. As mentioned Franco and Lou competed in WSM. Kaz was setting records in  powerlifting before he dominated WSM. These guys TRAINED rather than just letting the drugs do the work.  Before the monolifts, the bench shirts, and squat suits, they trained to be strong all over because it was just you and the weight. And their physiques reflected that.

It's just sad what has happened to BBing  and PLing over the decades.

Today there are running backs in the NFL under 6ft weighing 225lbs with 40" vertical jumps, low 4's in the 40, benching four plates and squatting 600lbs. I doubt that if they were to do a 5 mile run anyone would be impressed with their times. Yet very few would question their status as world class athletes.
Report to moderator   Logged
dj181
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 14852


stimulate-recover-grow


« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2013, 03:15:46 AM »

from Mike... 38 pounds of LEAN muscle tissue in 4 months

Appoximately two years ago, I met a young man at Gold′s
Gym in Venice, CA, who complained of being a hard gainer. After
3 and a half years of training up to 2 hours a day, six days a
week, he had made little in the way of worthwile progress. He
therefore concluded that he was not genetically predisposed to
build large muscles and was considering giving up training. I
suggested that he not be so hasty and give Heavy Duty high-
intensity training a try. He did.
After 4 months of 3 weekly workouts under my personal
supervision-none of which lasted more than 20 minutes-we sat
down and analyzed his progress. He had increased his reps,
weight or both for a total of four hundred sets. His strength
doubled in some areas and tripled in others and he gained 38
pounds of lean muscle mass.
I emphasize lean muscle mass because his weight gain
was not a mixture of fat and muscle; it was all muscle as
evidenced by the fact that his definition had improved. In
fact, he was able to see his abdominals for the first time
in his life.
Report to moderator   Logged
WOOO
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15968


Mr. Unpopular


« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2013, 03:46:05 AM »

There was a time in the 60's and 70's when bodybuilders and powerlifters were athletes. As mentioned Franco and Lou competed in WSM. Kaz was setting records in  powerlifting before he dominated WSM. These guys TRAINED rather than just letting the drugs do the work.  Before the monolifts, the bench shirts, and squat suits, they trained to be strong all over because it was just you and the weight. And their physiques reflected that.

It's just sad what has happened to BBing  and PLing over the decades.

Today there are running backs in the NFL under 6ft weighing 225lbs with 40" vertical jumps, low 4's in the 40, benching four plates and squatting 600lbs. I doubt that if they were to do a 5 mile run anyone would be impressed with their times. Yet very few would question their status as world class athletes.

totally on board with you... functional strength and ability has gone out the window and both events are more like freak shows than anything else now IMO
Report to moderator   Logged
oldtimer1
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 5098

Getbig!


« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2013, 05:53:20 AM »

I'm not sure what you're trying to convey when you say in effect that no one would question if a running back is an athlete?  There are aerobic athletes, anaerobic athletes and then there is a blend of ratios. I'm sure any NFL or Division I running back could post a really good 5 mile time but that time wouldn't impress a real endurance athlete.

I think for a guy who is mainly into looking good through bodybuilding but wants athletic attributes for sport, health and self defense would include some cardio. The way I worked it in when I was going that route was short runs. I would run 1 to 2 miles a couple of times a week. An ideal situation would be sprint intervals. Something like 6 x 800, 8 x 200 meters, or 6 x 400 would be ideal after warm up.

Now my priorities have changed to where I want more endurance and I go for 5 to 3 mile runs. It does compromise maximum strength but I feel leaner with certainly more endurance. If you're into the fight game of either boxing, wrestling or jui jitsu you better emphasize some real endurance training. Anyone who has ever done any fighting will instantly recognize the importance of conditioning. "Gassing" is a real problem when you are in the combat sports.
Report to moderator   Logged
Yev33
Getbig III
***
Posts: 856


« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2013, 11:10:37 AM »

I'm not sure what you're trying to convey when you say in effect that no one would question if a running back is an athlete?  There are aerobic athletes, anaerobic athletes and then there is a blend of ratios. I'm sure any NFL or Division I running back could post a really good 5 mile time but that time wouldn't impress a real endurance athlete.

I think for a guy who is mainly into looking good through bodybuilding but wants athletic attributes for sport, health and self defense would include some cardio. The way I worked it in when I was going that route was short runs. I would run 1 to 2 miles a couple of times a week. An ideal situation would be sprint intervals. Something like 6 x 800, 8 x 200 meters, or 6 x 400 would be ideal after warm up.

Now my priorities have changed to where I want more endurance and I go for 5 to 3 mile runs. It does compromise maximum strength but I feel leaner with certainly more endurance. If you're into the fight game of either boxing, wrestling or jui jitsu you better emphasize some real endurance training. Anyone who has ever done any fighting will instantly recognize the importance of conditioning. "Gassing" is a real problem when you are in the combat sports.

Completely agree with you. I have had conversations with people who didn't even consider WSM competitors athletes because they can't run long distances. Then when I ask them if they would consider an NFL running back an athlete they say yes. I am not sure exactly what times those guys would be able to post in a 5 mile run, a lot of them probably have nevet ran it before.

It's like you said, different sports require various amounts of endurance.


Report to moderator   Logged
WOOO
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15968


Mr. Unpopular


« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2013, 04:46:48 AM »

Completely agree with you. I have had conversations with people who didn't even consider WSM competitors athletes because they can't run long distances. Then when I ask them if they would consider an NFL running back an athlete they say yes. I am not sure exactly what times those guys would be able to post in a 5 mile run, a lot of them probably have nevet ran it before.

It's like you said, different sports require various amounts of endurance.





hmmm

adrian peterson would destroy 5 miles....
Report to moderator   Logged
Yev33
Getbig III
***
Posts: 856


« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2013, 11:45:03 AM »


hmmm

adrian peterson would destroy 5 miles....

AP is definitely a freak of freaks and you may be right. But if I had to put my money on him or a decent high school cross country runner, I would go with the high school kid.
Report to moderator   Logged
dj181
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 14852


stimulate-recover-grow


« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2013, 11:55:43 AM »

AP is definitely a freak of freaks and you may be right. But if I had to put my money on him or a decent high school cross country runner, I would go with the high school kid.

a decent high school cross country runner could easily run 5 miles in under 30 minutes
Report to moderator   Logged
Yev33
Getbig III
***
Posts: 856


« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2013, 12:31:34 PM »

a decent high school cross country runner could easily run 5 miles in under 30 minutes

That's kind of my point. There a thousands of decent high school cross country athletes in US alone. Adrian Peterson is a world class athlete. That is a HUGE gap.

The things that go into making an elite speed/power athlete are worlds apart than the things that go into making an elite endurance athlete. And in the 60's and 70's the kind of training that the very best powerlifters and bodybuilders did is close (not identical) to the kind of training that the elite speed/power athletes do today. They were athletes,  the rest of the world didn't give them credit for it. But today cheer for those who's training is based off of what those guys knew and were doing decades ago.  

Report to moderator   Logged
Donny
Competitors II
Getbig V
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 8979



WWW
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2013, 12:51:24 PM »

That's kind of my point. There a thousands of decent high school cross country athletes in US alone. Adrian Peterson is a world class athlete. That is a HUGE gap.

The things that go into making an elite speed/power athlete are worlds apart than the things that go into making an elite endurance athlete. And in the 60's and 70's the kind of training that the very best powerlifters and bodybuilders did is close (not identical) to the kind of training that the elite speed/power athletes do today. They were athletes,  the rest of the world didn't give them credit for it. But today cheer for those who's training is based off of what those guys knew and were doing decades ago.  


You write good Posts. I said this before.
Report to moderator   Logged
Viking11
Competitors
Getbig IV
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1558


« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2013, 06:33:00 PM »

Great posts on this thread! I think. Far too drunk to understand any of it. Ok I joke a bit. But.. I don't see why people love 4, 5 sets,  etc..  Rehabbing from surgery, even using light weights - up to no more than 100 lbs in second week of light training for 20 rep sets, I still don't do more than 3 sets.  I just don't see the point. Do 1,2 or maybe 3 including warm up set, then move on to something else.
Report to moderator   Logged
njflex
Competitors
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 19834


team guido


« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2013, 08:34:17 PM »

Great posts on this thread! I think. Far too drunk to understand any of it. Ok I joke a bit. But.. I don't see why people love 4, 5 sets,  etc..  Rehabbing from surgery, even using light weights - up to no more than 100 lbs in second week of light training for 20 rep sets, I still don't do more than 3 sets.  I just don't see the point. Do 1,2 or maybe 3 including warm up set, then move on to something else.
training has alot of variables and all should considered/done,whether its training frequency 'days on/off/sets/reps//execises per bodypart.then changes whether its supersets/tri sets for faster/quicker workouts/pumps.then doing some heavier training with more rest days to recoup and build .main thing is what are you training for an 'event'or personal strenght goal,to a physical physique improvement or combo all 3 spanned over say 6 month period and breaking it up strenght /heavy portion to the faster endurance type training for pump anf then fine tuning the body for a certain look as end result.
Report to moderator   Logged

$
Yev33
Getbig III
***
Posts: 856


« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2013, 09:36:50 PM »

You write good Posts. I said this before.

Thank you.
Report to moderator   Logged
njflex
Competitors
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 19834


team guido


« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2013, 09:19:51 AM »

Thank you.
yeah agree there yev too,,,
Report to moderator   Logged

$
dj181
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 14852


stimulate-recover-grow


« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2013, 10:25:45 AM »

i'm thinking about adding in some areobic/cardio training into my routine, but i'm not sure how much of it to do/add in?

i'd basically do it for health and a good level of fitness, but not an extreme level of fitness

Dr. Cooper says to do 30 minutes 3 times a week or 20 minutes 4 times per week, but i think that may be too much for me

AJ said that getting the heart rate to a high level ie. 160 bpm and maintaining it at that level for about 10 minutes 2 times per week is all that is required for health and a decent level of fitness, and i think that's about right
Report to moderator   Logged
Yev33
Getbig III
***
Posts: 856


« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2013, 10:55:34 AM »

yeah agree there yev too,,,
Thanks guys.
Report to moderator   Logged
temple_of_dis
Getbig III
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 889


togtfo


« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2014, 03:04:05 AM »

so break this down to simplicity:

1 set of
rows
leg press
military
chin
dips
bench

3x a week until get big?

then 2x a week?

no warm up set?

no cardio?

right??
Report to moderator   Logged
keanu
Getbig III
***
Posts: 710


« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2014, 08:04:30 AM »

but here's the thing...

"as you get progressively bigger and stronger the key to making even more progress is to train less"



Mike admitted in his later years that this was not true. You would have guys training once every 2 weeks and not making any progress. What were they to do? Train once a month for 15 minutes?
Report to moderator   Logged
keanu
Getbig III
***
Posts: 710


« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2014, 08:21:51 AM »

from Mike... 38 pounds of LEAN muscle tissue in 4 months

Appoximately two years ago, I met a young man at Gold′s
Gym in Venice, CA, who complained of being a hard gainer. After
3 and a half years of training up to 2 hours a day, six days a
week, he had made little in the way of worthwile progress. He
therefore concluded that he was not genetically predisposed to
build large muscles and was considering giving up training. I
suggested that he not be so hasty and give Heavy Duty high-
intensity training a try. He did.
After 4 months of 3 weekly workouts under my personal
supervision-none of which lasted more than 20 minutes-we sat
down and analyzed his progress. He had increased his reps,
weight or both for a total of four hundred sets. His strength
doubled in some areas and tripled in others and he gained 38
pounds of lean muscle mass.
I emphasize lean muscle mass because his weight gain
was not a mixture of fat and muscle; it was all muscle as
evidenced by the fact that his definition had improved. In
fact, he was able to see his abdominals for the first time
in his life.

This is the exact reason why Mentzer was a fraud. The gains he quotes here, nearly 10lbs of muscle per month aren't even possible on a massive stack. No way would you be cutting up while making this weight gain either. Mike was more into marketing. He wanted people to think they could get earth shattering results training an hour a week or less. His last book 'Muscles in Minutes' was targeted at Joe Public who wanted muscles without putting in the years or time. Get your best gains training 15 minutes every 5-7 days he claims.

I never train to failure. I usually stop 2 reps from it. I also go light 2 workouts  for a body part after a heavy one for recovery. According to Mike I would never make any progress, yet I have made great progress in strength and size. I became a Mentzer disciple for many years as his writing was so convincing. I got a little stronger initially but never really progressed.  My joints took a pounding, wasn't getting stronger or bigger and thought I had reached my genetic potential. Then I began learning about strength and conditioning and started gaining again. Following Mike's programs and teachings cost me about 5 years of training progress.Not doing any cardio, and following his calorie is a calorie dieting principles likely impacted health wise.

  The only thing I still take from Mike Mentzer is lowering volume, and monitoring the body for overtraining. For any trainee who is reading Mike's material thinking they have found the answer, beware. There is no pot of Gold at the end of the Mentzer rainbow.
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Theme created by Egad Community. Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!