Author Topic: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden  (Read 12539 times)

Skip8282

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #100 on: July 08, 2015, 03:32:59 PM »
Yeah what's a little treason among friends.  He should spend the rest of his life in prison IMO. 



I don't know where the balance is - he certainly has to do time - but a lifetime is way, way excessive.


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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #101 on: July 08, 2015, 04:40:39 PM »


I don't know where the balance is - he certainly has to do time - but a lifetime is way, way excessive.



I think when criminals are convicted, they can bring in things that might reduce their punishment during the sentencing phase.  I'm not sure how that would reasonably and logically work with Snowden.  What can he say?  "Yes, I knowingly violated federal law, violated my confidentiality agreement, stole confidential information affecting national security, shared secret information with allies and enemies that has nothing to do with the NSA spying on Americans . . . but at least I exposed the NSA spying on Americans"? 

I might do what catracho said and let him out when he is 85-90.   

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #102 on: July 08, 2015, 06:26:06 PM »
I think when criminals are convicted, they can bring in things that might reduce their punishment during the sentencing phase.  I'm not sure how that would reasonably and logically work with Snowden.  What can he say?  "Yes, I knowingly violated federal law, violated my confidentiality agreement, stole confidential information affecting national security, shared secret information with allies and enemies that has nothing to do with the NSA spying on Americans . . . but at least I exposed the NSA spying on Americans"?

Yeah, installing wiretaps siphoning gigabits of traffic per second at Tier 1 IXs which were analyzed by systems that can process the data streams in real time and store and make it available for querying via a Google-style interface, so that analysts could have a steady supply of porn, and hacking into corporate computer infrastructure to siphon data in an unencrypted state is simply "exposing the NSA spying on Americans." I could go on...

Did Snowden break the law? Yes. Should he face trial? Yes. But cut the bullshit because what he exposed was way more important than "the NSA spying on Americans": he exposed a government ruck amuck and using secret laws and secret Courts to turn the country - and the entire world - into a huge surveillance state that would leave George Orwell blushing.

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #103 on: July 08, 2015, 06:43:08 PM »
Yeah, installing wiretaps siphoning gigabits of traffic per second at Tier 1 IXs which were analyzed by systems that can process the data streams in real time and store and make it available for querying via a Google-style interface, so that analysts could have a steady supply of porn, and hacking into corporate computer infrastructure to siphon data in an unencrypted state is simply "exposing the NSA spying on Americans." I could go on...

Did Snowden break the law? Yes. Should he face trial? Yes. But cut the bullshit because what he exposed was way more important than "the NSA spying on Americans": he exposed a government ruck amuck and using secret laws and secret Courts to turn the country - and the entire world - into a huge surveillance state that would leave George Orwell blushing.

Did he break the law?  Yes.  Did he commit treason?  Yes.  So cut the BS apologizing for a traitor.  I am glad we know about the spying, but I have zero sympathy for that traitor.  There is absolutely no justification for him stealing and then sharing information with allies and enemies about us spying on them.  In terms of his punishment, stealing classified intel and giving it to Russia et al. dwarfs his disclosure of the NSA spying on Americans. 

But like I said earlier, I'm cool with letting him out when he gets past about 85 or so. 

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #104 on: July 08, 2015, 09:01:31 PM »
Did he break the law?  Yes.  Did he commit treason?  Yes.  So cut the BS apologizing for a traitor.  I am glad we know about the spying, but I have zero sympathy for that traitor.  There is absolutely no justification for him stealing and then sharing information with allies and enemies about us spying on them.  In terms of his punishment, stealing classified intel and giving it to Russia et al. dwarfs his disclosure of the NSA spying on Americans.  

But like I said earlier, I'm cool with letting him out when he gets past about 85 or so.  

Fuck you and the penis you rode in on asshole - I'm not apologizing for anyone. I'm stating my opinion - which happens to be almost diametrically opposite to yours. You are happy with living under constant surveillance and I'm not. You think that it's ok for the Government to shred the Constitution to shreds and I don't. You believe it's appropriate to have secret laws and secret courts and I don't. If you don't like what I have to say, that's too bad.

You say there's no justification for what he did; that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. But that's all it and it's not worth very much. And one more thing you arrogant prig: he's presumed innocent until charges are brought and he's proven guilty in a court of law. That you and your ilk think him guilty doesn't make him so.

And while you're frothing at the mouth about what Snowden did and how it damaged the country, you don't seem the least bit bothered by what this Government has done or how hose actions damaged the country. Some American you are...

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #105 on: July 08, 2015, 09:22:35 PM »
Snowden could fly into the USA this summer, declare his intention to take on hilary... and win the DEM party presidential nomination a few months later.

and you know, this man.

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #106 on: July 09, 2015, 09:30:15 AM »
Fuck you and the penis you rode in on asshole - I'm not apologizing for anyone. I'm stating my opinion - which happens to be almost diametrically opposite to yours. You are happy with living under constant surveillance and I'm not. You think that it's ok for the Government to shred the Constitution to shreds and I don't. You believe it's appropriate to have secret laws and secret courts and I don't. If you don't like what I have to say, that's too bad.

You say there's no justification for what he did; that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. But that's all it and it's not worth very much. And one more thing you arrogant prig: he's presumed innocent until charges are brought and he's proven guilty in a court of law. That you and your ilk think him guilty doesn't make him so.

And while you're frothing at the mouth about what Snowden did and how it damaged the country, you don't seem the least bit bothered by what this Government has done or how hose actions damaged the country. Some American you are...

You sound pretty angry.  

The only thing I'll respond to is the "presumed innocent" part.  We're not in a court of law.  This is a message board.  There is no "innocent until proven guilty" on a message board or in the court of public opinion.  Plus, anyone who doesn't have their head up Snowden's rear end knows he has already admitted stealing classified intel.  

Now, take a deep breath, and as I recommended before, go smoke a joint so you can calm down.  Might make you feel better too.  

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #107 on: July 09, 2015, 05:13:39 PM »
I think when criminals are convicted, they can bring in things that might reduce their punishment during the sentencing phase.  I'm not sure how that would reasonably and logically work with Snowden.  What can he say?  "Yes, I knowingly violated federal law, violated my confidentiality agreement, stole confidential information affecting national security, shared secret information with allies and enemies that has nothing to do with the NSA spying on Americans . . . but at least I exposed the NSA spying on Americans"? 

I might do what catracho said and let him out when he is 85-90.   



Nope.  He would point out that he tried numerous times to raise the flag through legitimate channels.  He will point out that he was ignored, shunned, even threatened with the loss of his career.  He will point out that even now there has been ZERO accountability.  He will point out that the Constitution was being shit on.  He will point out that even in the aftermath members of Congress were wrongly spied on when investigating the matter.  He will point out that his actions led to much needed change.

A lifetime or near lifetime imprisonment is cruel and unusual, IMO.

He has to do time for sure and not all of his behavior can be justified by the greater good argument, but I would think 5-10 would be an appropriate range (given only what is in the public sector).

Which leads to another question, would he ever even get a fair, open, public trial.  Me thinks they would bend over backwards to keep it out of the public claiming national security.

A plea may be the fairest, most open thing available.

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #108 on: July 13, 2015, 09:27:52 AM »


Nope.  He would point out that he tried numerous times to raise the flag through legitimate channels.  He will point out that he was ignored, shunned, even threatened with the loss of his career.  He will point out that even now there has been ZERO accountability.  He will point out that the Constitution was being shit on.  He will point out that even in the aftermath members of Congress were wrongly spied on when investigating the matter.  He will point out that his actions led to much needed change.

A lifetime or near lifetime imprisonment is cruel and unusual, IMO.

He has to do time for sure and not all of his behavior can be justified by the greater good argument, but I would think 5-10 would be an appropriate range (given only what is in the public sector).

Which leads to another question, would he ever even get a fair, open, public trial.  Me thinks they would bend over backwards to keep it out of the public claiming national security.

A plea may be the fairest, most open thing available.

I doubt most of that is true.  When he did try and be a legitimate whistle blower?  Where are you getting that from? 

Even if we assume everything you wrote is true, stealing classified intel and providing it to our enemies, who in return give him shelter, overshadows any of the good that came out of his exposure of the NSA spying.  There is no way he doesn't get anything less than something close to a life sentence, which is exactly what he deserves. 

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #109 on: July 13, 2015, 12:08:31 PM »
I doubt most of that is true.  When he did try and be a legitimate whistle blower?  Where are you getting that from?

He repeatedly attempted to report some of the blatant abuses via internal channels, including going all the way up to the IG. If you can't be bothered to read up on the details of a case you're pronouncing opinions, what good are those opinions?


Even if we assume everything you wrote is true, stealing classified intel and providing it to our enemies, who in return give him shelter, overshadows any of the good that came out of his exposure of the NSA spying.  There is no way he doesn't get anything less than something close to a life sentence, which is exactly what he deserves.

No, it's your opinion that the good that came out of this is overshadowed by the bad. What objective evidence, if any, do you have to support that position? The statements of public officials like James Clapper, that provably and repeatedly lied under oath in a Congressional hearing and didn't face any repercussions? Or from the public officials that keep telling you how terrorist attacks are being averted every second of every day and you should be a-ok with the fact that all it took was a little bit of freedom?

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #110 on: July 13, 2015, 12:31:51 PM »
He repeatedly attempted to report some of the blatant abuses via internal channels, including going all the way up to the IG. If you can't be bothered to read up on the details of a case you're pronouncing opinions, what good are those opinions?


No, it's your opinion that the good that came out of this is overshadowed by the bad. What objective evidence, if any, do you have to support that position? The statements of public officials like James Clapper, that provably and repeatedly lied under oath in a Congressional hearing and didn't face any repercussions? Or from the public officials that keep telling you how terrorist attacks are being averted every second of every day and you should be a-ok with the fact that all it took was a little bit of freedom?

I'm not going to look it up.  If you want to post a link I'll read it. 

Of course it's my opinion.  I've posted numerous articles in this thread about the damage his treason has caused that support my opinion.   

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #111 on: July 13, 2015, 01:52:55 PM »
I'm not going to look it up.  If you want to post a link I'll read it.

It's not my job to do your research for you. If you want to make a fool of yourself by commenting on topics that you aren't informed about, that's certainly your right and I'm under no obligation to help you avoid that.


Of course it's my opinion.  I've posted numerous articles in this thread about the damage his treason has caused that support my opinion.

You know what they say about opinions, right?

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #112 on: July 13, 2015, 02:22:55 PM »
It's not my job to do your research for you. If you want to make a fool of yourself by commenting on topics that you aren't informed about, that's certainly your right and I'm under no obligation to help you avoid that.


You know what they say about opinions, right?

You make a claim that Snowden tried to go through proper channels.  I call BS.  You then tell me to go look for information to support your claim.  lol  I think not.  

I know what they say about opinions.  What's your point?  

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #113 on: July 13, 2015, 02:46:00 PM »
You make a claim that Snowden tried to go through proper channels.  I call BS.  You then tell me to go look for information to support your claim.  lol  I think not.  

I know what they say about opinions.  What's your point?  

YOU made the claim he didn't go through proper channels. When challenged, you said you weren't going to look it up, despite it only taking 5 seconds (Google is your friend): http://firedoglake.com/2014/05/29/nbc-news-confirms-attempt-by-edward-snowden-to-go-through-channels-at-nsa/ - and there's plenty more.

If you can't be bothered to research the subject that you're talking about, perhaps you ought to shut up and let the adults - who who have researched - discuss without butting in.

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #114 on: July 13, 2015, 03:03:24 PM »
YOU made the claim he didn't go through proper channels. When challenged, you said you weren't going to look it up, despite it only taking 5 seconds (Google is your friend): http://firedoglake.com/2014/05/29/nbc-news-confirms-attempt-by-edward-snowden-to-go-through-channels-at-nsa/ - and there's plenty more.

If you can't be bothered to research the subject that you're talking about, perhaps you ought to shut up and let the adults - who who have researched - discuss without butting in.

Actually, if you go back and read the thread (which I recommend), you will see that someone else first claimed he went through proper channels.  That was later repeated by Skip, and then by you.   

Thanks for the link.  The closest thing I see to him actually trying to blow the whistle is this: 

After this portion of the interview played, Williams informed viewers that NBC News had learned from “multiple sources that Snowden did indeed send at least one email to the General Counsel’s office raising policy and legal questions.” It was working to confirm further details and had filed a Freedom of Information Act request for any other records of Snowden going through channels.

Pretty weak.  The rest of the article talks about Snowden's own alleged repeated attempts to blow the whistle.  One of the reasons that doesn't pass the smell test is he should have his own copies of numerous purported emails.  The same guy who stole an untold number of classified documents doesn't have copies of his own emails?  The stench is strong.   

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #115 on: July 13, 2015, 04:53:40 PM »
Actually, if you go back and read the thread (which I recommend), you will see that someone else first claimed he went through proper channels.  That was later repeated by Skip, and then by you.   

Thanks for the link.  The closest thing I see to him actually trying to blow the whistle is this: 

After this portion of the interview played, Williams informed viewers that NBC News had learned from “multiple sources that Snowden did indeed send at least one email to the General Counsel’s office raising policy and legal questions.” It was working to confirm further details and had filed a Freedom of Information Act request for any other records of Snowden going through channels.

Pretty weak.  The rest of the article talks about Snowden's own alleged repeated attempts to blow the whistle.  One of the reasons that doesn't pass the smell test is he should have his own copies of numerous purported emails.  The same guy who stole an untold number of classified documents doesn't have copies of his own emails?  The stench is strong.   

Not really all that week. There's way more than one e-mail, a fact acknowledged in open hearings in the Senate commitee. Besides, even if Snowde had the copies and provided them, would you accept them at face value? You - and your ilk - are likely to argue he falsified them. And note, that it's unclear that going through "proper channels"  would have helped. Plenty of others have gone through proper channels and did everything by the book and what happened? Thomas Drake, a senior executive at NSA, followed procedure and securely reported abuses to Congress; he faced prosecution.

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #116 on: July 13, 2015, 05:01:04 PM »
Not really all that week. There's way more than one e-mail, a fact acknowledged in open hearings in the Senate commitee. Besides, even if Snowde had the copies and provided them, would you accept them at face value? You - and your ilk - are likely to argue he falsified them. And note, that it's unclear that going through "proper channels"  would have helped. Plenty of others have gone through proper channels and did everything by the book and what happened? Thomas Drake, a senior executive at NSA, followed procedure and securely reported abuses to Congress; he faced prosecution.

I don't know if I would accept them or not.  Maybe yes, maybe no.  Depends on what they said, who they were addressed to, whether they appear to be genuine, etc. 

There are plenty of protections for whistleblowers.  I know whistleblowers who have done it the right way.  If he would have done it the right way, I doubt he would have been prosecuted.  And if he would have stopped at only exposing the NSA spying on Americans instead of stealing and then giving confidential intel to our enemies, this would be an entirely different discussion. 

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #117 on: July 13, 2015, 07:28:42 PM »
disagree.   he took an oath and worked for years at intel agencies. 

when they pay your bills, when they give a check, you agree to STFU.  you can't pick and choose when to leak classified shit base don your own personal ethics code.

I dont like the govt spying on americans, but i think he did brek law, he deserves jail.  the MINUTE it's okay to leak SOME classified shit based on the moral code of some random dude, we are screwed.  cause the next random dude might feel like giving away nuke secrets, etc.

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #118 on: July 13, 2015, 08:35:48 PM »
I don't know if I would accept them or not.  Maybe yes, maybe no.  Depends on what they said, who they were addressed to, whether they appear to be genuine, etc. 

There are plenty of protections for whistleblowers.  I know whistleblowers who have done it the right way.  If he would have done it the right way, I doubt he would have been prosecuted.  And if he would have stopped at only exposing the NSA spying on Americans instead of stealing and then giving confidential intel to our enemies, this would be an entirely different discussion. 

Again, tell that to Thomas Drake who tried to responsbility "blow the whistle" by talking with the Senate and House Intelligence Committees.


disagree.   he took an oath and worked for years at intel agencies. 

when they pay your bills, when they give a check, you agree to STFU.  you can't pick and choose when to leak classified shit base don your own personal ethics code.

I dont like the govt spying on americans, but i think he did brek law, he deserves jail.  the MINUTE it's okay to leak SOME classified shit based on the moral code of some random dude, we are screwed.  cause the next random dude might feel like giving away nuke secrets, etc.

He deserves a fair trial. What happens after that is up to the jury.

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #119 on: July 14, 2015, 05:06:16 AM »
He deserves a fair trial. What happens after that is up to the jury.


agree, always.  But he needs to be on trial for it.  not on the run, not pardoned, etc.  I may disagree 100% with the evil shit he revealed, but I respect the secrecy, classified nature of our nation's forces and branches. 

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #120 on: July 14, 2015, 01:08:53 PM »
Again, tell that to Thomas Drake who tried to responsbility "blow the whistle" by talking with the Senate and House Intelligence Committees.


He deserves a fair trial. What happens after that is up to the jury.

Wasn't Thomas Drake convicted of a crime?  If so, doesn't sound like he did it the right way, but I haven't followed his situation. 

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #121 on: July 14, 2015, 05:06:38 PM »
Wasn't Thomas Drake convicted of a crime?  If so, doesn't sound like he did it the right way, but I haven't followed his situation. 

Right, because why would anyone be convicted if they didn't do something bad, right? ::)

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #122 on: July 14, 2015, 05:21:33 PM »

agree, always.  But he needs to be on trial for it.  not on the run, not pardoned, etc.  I may disagree 100% with the evil shit he revealed, but I respect the secrecy, classified nature of our nation's forces and branches. 



I don't think he gets a free ride.  But life in prison?  Shit, there were Lincoln conspirators that got pardoned for fucks sake.


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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #123 on: July 14, 2015, 05:54:58 PM »
Right, because why would anyone be convicted if they didn't do something bad, right? ::)

Including those who plead guilty to committing a crime like Drake did, right?   ::)

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Re: Ex-Homeland Chief Napolitano: No Mercy for Edward Snowden
« Reply #124 on: August 03, 2015, 01:44:50 PM »
Good.

No sign of deal for Snowden as White House rejects 2-year online petition
Published August 02, 2015
FoxNews.com

Edward Snowden will likely remain hiding in Russia for some time, with Washington officials and most Americans offering no leniency or forgiveness for him notoriously stealing classified information and jeopardizing U.S. national security.

The White House is the most recent entity to take such a position, rejecting a two-year-long petition drive on its own website to pardon Snowden, who took classified National Security Agency data while working as a government contractor.

“Mr. Snowden's dangerous decision to steal and disclose classified information had severe consequences for the security of our country and the people who work … to protect it,” Lisa Monaco, President Obama’s adviser on Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, said this week. “He should come home to the United States and be judged by a jury of his peers.”

She also said that if Snowden thought his actions were consistent with civil disobedience, then he should have done what others who have taken issue with their own government have done: “Challenge it, speak out, engage in a constructive act of protest.”

The 31-year-old Snowden was a NSA contractor from 2009 to 2013, working roughly the last 15 months at an agency facility in Hawaii that reportedly monitored China and North Korea.

He gave the top-secret information to several journalists before departing in May 2013 for Hong Kong.

In June, the Justice Department charged Snowden with espionage while he was in Russia, where he has since been granted temporary asylum. Snowden purportedly was headed to Ecuador.

Snowden’s efforts exposed the federal government’s vast electronic-spying programs including a post-9/11 project that collects and stores data on Americans’ phone calls and other electronic activities. He reportedly collected, then gave to journalists 50,000 to as many as 200,000 documents.

Washington lawyer Stephen Kohn, who specializes in advocating for corporate and government whistleblowers, argued Wednesday that the U.S. should nevertheless strike a deal with Snowden and show some leniency.

He argued that Snowden never had the opportunity to expose the information, as Morales suggested, because the federal government did not include intelligence agencies when enacting whistleblower laws in 1978.

“It’s stuck in the mud,” said Kohn, a partner in the firm Kohn, Kohn and Colapinto. “These arcane practices have no effective way to report misconduct. … When Congress establishes safe procedures, people use them.”

Kohn also argued the deal should essentially be that Snowden turns over the remaining information in exchange for a punishment less than life in prison.

“It’s in the American public’s interest to contain more damage,” he said.

Americans, however, don’t appear willing or eager to cut Snowden a break.

Roughly 64 percent of them familiar with Snowden have a negative view of him, according to a poll published in April by U.S. News & World Report.

Snowden will likely remain beyond U.S. borders at least until Obama leaves office in January 2017.

None of the 17 GOP presidential candidates have touted a deal, if elected president, and unlikely will, considering the party’s base favors those tough on national security.

David Payne, a Republican strategist and partner at Vox Global, argues the 2016 GOP candidates have a range of beliefs on the issue: from former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, who think the recent reforms to our government “snooping” laws were extreme, to Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, who has proposed major restrictions to government data collection on citizens.

He also points out that the April poll was funded by the American Civil Liberties Union, which supports Snowden. And he argues nobody in the GOP field would back a “politically tricky” presidential pardon.

“We won’t see a Republican presidential nominee go anywhere near this idea,” he said Thursday.

Democratic challenge Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders purportedly expressed interest last year in some leniency for Snowden but made clear that he thought he committed a crime.

However, neither his nor the campaign of fellow 2016 Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton responded to a request this week for a statement about Snowden.

Former Attorney General Eric Holder has recently said “the possibility exists” that Snowden could strike a deal that would limit his prison time, to perhaps three to five years.

However, the White House has also downplayed Holder’s comments.

"I would caution you against reading his comments that way," Press Secretary Josh Earnest told reporters July 8.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/02/no-sign-deal-for-snowden-from-white-house-to-congress-2016-field/