Apartheid - is it time America?

[Archer77]

Yeah we can tell you only refer to the finest books in academia 


If it wasn't for dose evil white men Africans would have colonized space by now 

[andreisdaman]

Have you ever looked at the bottom of Wikipedia pages? They list their sources.

Where are your sources?

It's a fact those Africans were brought to Haiti by boat - that's not their original land. Are you going to argue that or what exactly do you not agree with?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_Massacre


A 1806 engraving of Jean-Jacques Dessalines. It depicts the general, sword raised in one arm, while the other holds a severed head of a white woman.

it becomes your original land once you are born there................... .

by your reasoning this isn't the original land of all the whites in the United states

[mr.turbo]

it becomes your original land once you are born there................... .

by your reasoning this isn't the original land of all the whites in the United states

the europeans arrived on a boat in Haiti too no need to discuss the US

I don't really get this reasoning either

I'm sure he will clarify shortly

[andreisdaman]

the europeans arrived on a boat in Haiti too no need to discuss the US

I don't really get this reasoning either

I'm sure he will clarify shortly

again...some are afflicted with a strange malady whereby they just simply cannot take responsibility and must distort history so as to not be on the defensive and ponder the ramifications of the TRUTH..this strange malady afflicts all peoples

[obsidian]

it becomes your original land once you are born there................... .

by your reasoning this isn't the original land of all the whites in the United states

We're all part of Earth. We were all born on the planet so it belong to everyone. However, the Tainos lived there for thousands of years and were replaced. And diversity was lost. Blacks should never have been brought over via slavery in the first place. They should have been left in Africa. The payoff was totally not worth it.

[andreisdaman]

We're all part of Earth. We were all born on the planet so it belong to everyone. However, the Tainos lived there for thousands of years and were replaced. And diversity was lost. Blacks should never have been brought over via slavery in the first place. They should have been left in Africa. The payoff was totally not worth it.

and by your reasoning, Whites should have stayed in Europe.....things would be better as well,....we also conveniently overlook that the Tainos were totally wiped out by the Europeans (the Spanish)....and Europeans almost wiped out the American Indian...or was that justified as well???

[obsidian]

and by your reasoning, Whites should have stayed in Europe.....things would be better as well,....we also conveniently overlook that the Tainos were totally wiped out by the Europeans (the Spanish)....and Europeans almost wiped out the American Indian...or was that justified as well???

No it was not justified. The American Indians got a very raw deal.

Only thing is whites brought civilization, technology and infrastructure to these countries they took over and what have the blacks brought to Haiti for example?

That being said I would have been fine with Europe staying white and America being a giant game reserve with wild life and Indians running around. Europeans could have toured America and Africa by airplane or balloons etc. Now what do we have to look at - Detroit?! No thanks.

[andreisdaman]

No it was not justified. The American Indians got a very raw deal.

Only thing is whites brought civilization, technology and infrastructure to these countries they took over and what have the blacks brought to Haiti for example?

That being said I would have been fine with Europe staying white and America being a giant game reserve with wild life and Indians running around. Europeans could have toured America and Africa by airplane or balloons etc. Now what do we have to look at - Detroit?! No thanks.

The whole point is that yes I agree that Europeans brought civilization, technology and infrastructure.....but did so in a xenophopic manner...it would have been a much better accomplishment had it been done with out all the mass murder, genocide and slavery

[Archer77]

The whole point is that yes I agree that Europeans brought civilization, technology and infrastructure.....but did so in a xenophopic manner...it would have been a much better accomplishment had it been done with out all the mass murder, genocide and slavery

Has it been anywhere else on Earth during the course of human history.

[mr.turbo]

We're all part of Earth. We were all born on the planet so it belong to everyone. However, the Tainos lived there for thousands of years and were replaced. And diversity was lost. Blacks should never have been brought over via slavery in the first place. They should have been left in Africa. The payoff was totally not worth it.

haiti produced 50% of the GDP of France around the 1750's

huge fortunes were made so how is there "no payoff"

France would probably be reduced to the another backwater without it ...hmmm

[El Diablo Blanco]

Yeah we can tell you only refer to the finest books in academia 


If it wasn't for dose evil white men Africans would have colonized space by now 

Whatch your mouth

[andreisdaman]

Has it been anywhere else on Earth during the course of human history.

hard to say since history usually only seems to document calamities more than the good stuff

[Archer77]

hard to say since history usually only seems to document calamities more than the good stuff

Good stuff is subjective.  Good stuff would be whatever was beneficial at the time.  I'm going to blow your mind, andre.   Because of the familial closeness within black African tribes involved in the slave trade. You are more likely to have a direct line to the slave trading than the average white person.

[mr.turbo]

again...some are afflicted with a strange malady whereby they just simply cannot take responsibility and must distort history so as to not be on the defensive and ponder the ramifications of the TRUTH..this strange malady afflicts all peoples

Been thinking about this.  I think these intellectual gymnastics are reasonable to a degree.

Once you take your boot off someones neck they suddenly become free to exact revenge upon you. The defensiveness is well founded.

This is why haiti gets held up as a "failure".  The slaves killed a few thousand europeans as soon as they got free.

the recent history is just as interesting but almost nobody pays attention to what really goes on in haiti...

[Irongrip400]

Been thinking about this.  I think these intellectual gymnastics are reasonable to a degree.

Once you take your boot off someones neck they suddenly become free to exact revenge upon you. The defensiveness is well founded.

This is why haiti gets held up as a "failure".  The slaves killed a few thousand europeans as soon as they got free.

the recent history is just as interesting but almost nobody pays attention to what really goes on in haiti...

Go on...

[mr.turbo]

After independence, Haiti was required to pay France a huge amount money, specifically in retribution for eliminating the colonial power.
It's generally accepted that the demand was illegal but nobody did anything about it so the country was plunged into debt.
This is in fact what ruined the country economically.

In 2003 the president of haiti made the mistake of "requesting reparations" from the colonial entity France

...it wasn't long before this fellow found himself on a one way trip to Africa courtesy of the US Army 

Half the wealth of France came out of this island and these days people there can be found literally eating dirt to survive.

[mr.turbo]

[obsidian]

haiti produced 50% of the GDP of France around the 1750's

huge fortunes were made so how is there "no payoff"

France would probably be reduced to the another backwater without it ...hmmm

And who's to say they could not have achieve any profits with only white Frenchmen in Haiti? And remember I said shortsightedness. There were short term gains but long term it offered no benefits. Haiti today is a slum, the Tainos that lived their virtually gone and a few thousand white french men, women and children genocided.

[muscleman-2013]

andre.   Because of the familial closeness within black African tribes involved in the slave trade. You are more likely to have a direct line to the slave trading than the average white person.

So you are saying the average African American is more likely a direct descendant of a slave trader than the average white American?

[mr.turbo]

And who's to say they could not have achieve any profits with only white Frenchmen in Haiti? And remember I said shortsightedness. There were short term gains but long term it offered no benefits. Haiti today is a slum, the Tainos that lived their virtually gone and a few thousand white french men, women and children genocided.

France extorted payments from the country long kicking them out. They became a major industrial power as a result.

want to discuss this but the thoughts are highly jumble bumbled and fumbled up

[Bindare_Dundat]

Ahhhh...the "its not my fault" narrative...where a group who has systematically destroyed other groups of people through exploitation, genocide, the illegal seizure of lands, invasion, colonialism, segregation, discrimination, and the enactment of Jim Crow laws, deny they had any part in the problems said populations are experiencing due to extreme guilt over their inhumane treatment of others.........

wash, rinse, repeat....

Shut up, rapist.

[andreisdaman]

Good stuff is subjective.  Good stuff would be whatever was beneficial at the time.  I'm going to blow your mind, andre.   Because of the familial closeness within black African tribes involved in the slave trade. You are more likely to have a direct line to the slave trading than the average white person.

EPIC minimizing of white responsibility

I would also offer to you that SLAVERY IS ACTUALLY MORE WHITE HISTORY THAN BLACK HISTORY....WHITES IMPOSED AND ENFORCED IT NOT ONLY THROUGH CRUELTY BUT THROUGH LAWS WHICH WERE SANCTIONED BY AUTHORITY...

BY SAYING THAT SLAVERY IS "BLACK HISTORY"...IT MINIMIZES YOUR ROLE, PARTICIPATION, AND YES,........GUILT

[muscleman-2013]

EPIC minimizing of white responsibility

Lets just not mention that blacks (slaving and selling each other) introduced the black slaver trade to Europe eh?  EPIC denial of black culture.

[muscleman-2013]

I would also offer to you that SLAVERY IS ACTUALLY MORE WHITE HISTORY THAN BLACK HISTORY....WHITES IMPOSED AND ENFORCED IT NOT ONLY THROUGH CRUELTY BUT THROUGH LAWS WHICH WERE SANCTIONED BY AUTHORITY...

LOL because blacks didn't have written laws AT ALL?  Just a sick cruel cultural belief and practice.  Epic DENIAL.

[andreisdaman]

Been thinking about this.  I think these intellectual gymnastics are reasonable to a degree.

Once you take your boot off someones neck they suddenly become free to exact revenge upon you. The defensiveness is well founded.

This is why haiti gets held up as a "failure".  The slaves killed a few thousand europeans as soon as they got free.

the recent history is just as interesting but almost nobody pays attention to what really goes on in haiti...

Good point....many people justify black problems by saying "its their fault...they were freed over 20 years ago".....however they conveniently forget that after blacks were "freed", blacks began to build businesses, and were being elected to government in record numbers.....a large number of the white southern population became jealous and thus the KKK was born and the government colluded with white businessmen  and law enforcement to enact segregation and jim crow laws tp prevent blacks from going to school, voting, and owning businesses....and it was enforced by terror (burning down of houses, lynchings) and this lasted up until the mid 1960's

I think the REAL PROBLEM with race relations is that WHITES DO NOT KNOW THEIR OWN HISTORY AND ARE IGNORANT TO THE ROLE OF THEIR GREAT GRANDFATHERS, GRAND FATHERS, AND FATHERS in regards to the situation occurring presently...thus the denial of white complicity