Hi Fat Low Carb - When does the magic happen?

[Thong Maniac]

usually much higher
some people eat 1000g carbs on carb ups
500-600g usually does the trick. so thats still additional calories
if you keep fat low you wont gain any fat even when you eat a shitton of carbs (if you limit that to a day).
there are even studies on that
being in ketosis makes dieting much easier because of less appetite. how does that apply stress lol. its much more stressful to be starving all day because your insulin runs amok.

Thanks, im just amazed that just eating beef and a few nuts, oils, butter, greens, i wouldnt be in full ketosis after a couple days of that

[Jizmo]

Why would insulin be running amok on a zero carb diet? I've seen plenty of guys on zero carbs that went in and out of ketosis. You're missing the forest for the trees. Calorie deficit equals fat loss and no matter what you're going to be hungry so what.

if you dont eat carbs for 2-3 consecutive days YOU ARE IN KETOSIS
unless u eat like 500g protein a day then its gluconeogenesis time.
do you even know what ketosis means? its essentially the condition where your body is using fat for fuel.
which ALWAYS happens when you dont eat carbs
eat no carbs = youre in ketosis
you cant be not in ketosis when you eat 0 carbs (unless huge amounts of protein)

[Thong Maniac]

if you dont eat carbs for 2-3 consecutive days YOU ARE IN KETOSIS
unless u eat like 500g protein a day then its gluconeogenesis time.
do you even know what ketosis means? its essentially the condition where your body is using fat for fuel.
which ALWAYS happens when you dont eat carbs
eat no carbs = youre in ketosis
you cant be not in ketosis when you eat 0 carbs (unless huge amounts of protein)

Right but werent u saying AD isnt ketosis? Is that because the recommended 30g of carbs per day isnt really ketosis level?

[Disgusted]

if you dont eat carbs for 2-3 consecutive days YOU ARE IN KETOSIS
unless u eat like 500g protein a day then its gluconeogenesis time.
do you even know what ketosis means? its essentially the condition where your body is using fat for fuel.
which ALWAYS happens when you dont eat carbs
eat no carbs = youre in ketosis
you cant be not in ketosis when you eat 0 carbs (unless huge amounts of protein)

Do some reading up on what glucogenesis is. Your statement makes no sense. Glucogenesis has nothing to do with how much protein you eat. Your body will convert protein into glucose for the energy that the brain needs. That is glucogenesis.  It is also my understanding that it can convert fat into glucose too if need be.

[Marty Champions]

Is jizmo some 20year old expert lol

[Jizmo]

Right but werent u saying AD isnt ketosis? Is that because the recommended 30g of carbs per day isnt really ketosis level?

AD is ketosis. youre just out of ketosis during the carb up and the following 2-3 days, then youll be back into ketosis.
30g carbs are also not recommended. theyre the MAXIMUM that youre allowed to eat.

Do some reading up on what glucogenesis is. Your statement makes no sense. Glucogenesis has nothing to do with how much protein you eat. Your body will convert protein into glucose for the energy that the brain needs. That is glucogenesis. It is also my understanding that it can convert fat into glucose too if need be.

this statement alone shows that you have zero clue about the topic

if you consume too much protein then the body uses it as fuel = gluconeogenesis (which would normally take place from carbs, but with no carbs and an abundance of protein it happens aswell).
gluconeogenesis kicks you out of ketosis.

fat can not be converted into glucose   if the body uses fat as fuel = ketosis
ketosis would be impossible if fat could be converted into glucose

Is jizmo some 20year old expert lol

neither nor

[Thin Lizzy]

Do some reading up on what glucogenesis is. Your statement makes no sense. Glucogenesis has nothing to do with how much protein you eat. Your body will convert protein into glucose for the energy that the brain needs. That is glucogenesis.  It is also my understanding that it can convert fat into glucose too if need be.

You are correct on all counts.

Gluconeogenesis is basically a stop gap measure for the brain to get glucose in the absence of carbs. Glucose can be converted from Protein: Alanine, and from Fat: Glycerol. However, there are limits to how much glucose can be produced this way. That's why there's Ketosis: fueling the brain with Ketones, which is a last resort.

The reason Keto works so well for fat loss is that you're taking the least satiating macro, carbs, completely out of the mix, leaving only Protein which doesn't get converted to fat and is almost impossible to overeat, and fat which is extremely satiating (how many egg yolks can you eat?)

[Jizmo]

You are correct on all counts.

Gluconeogenesis is basically a stop gap measure for the brain to get glucose in the absence of carbs. Glucose can be converted from Protein: Alanine, and from Fat: Glycerol. However, there are limits to how much glucose can be produced this way. That's why there's Ketosis: fueling the brain with Ketones, which is a last resort.

The reason Keto works so well for fat loss is that you're taking the least satiating macro, carbs, completely out of the mix, leaving only Protein which doesn't get converted to fat and is almost impossible to overeat, and fat which is extremely satiating (how many egg yolks can you eat?)

true
the amount of glucose which can be converted from fat is extremely insignificant though
i dont know if the human body even does that because its ineffective in terms of energy balance too

[Thong Maniac]

What about over all health benefits or low carbs/hi fat. Isnt there some work on alzheimers and other neuro degenrative diseases that show carbs accelerate those diseases?

[Jizmo]

numerous.. i think carbs in general are not as deleterious as some make it sound

the main culprit for that is not carbs but sugar (causing inflammation and by that causing scores of various diseases)

[Thong Maniac]

numerous.. i think carbs in general are not as deleterious as some make it sound

the main culprit for that is not carbs but sugar (causing inflammation and by that causing scores of various diseases)

Word.

Did want to give a lil update. I do notice my puffy aerolas (ive even had surgery before but no gland was removed-cuz i didnt have one. Just been cursed with soft puffy nips since birth) seem way flatter, like the water is leaving that area. Chest is looking more shapely than usual.

My first carb up was pretty good. Pita bread, rice, fish, Box of junior mints after dinner. A large dark beer. Bowl of cereal, bowl of plain oats, a few Of my wifes protein bars that are basically junk food, chipotle bowl (chicken rice beans). So probably over did it, but i didnt eat cake or pizza so i consider that a win.

Back on hi fat low carb today. So just one all out day of normal food

[Jizmo]

its all good
its basically impossible to reverse progress by refeeding or even cheating hard once a week

ive had days where i pigged out insanely
like i ate a pound of nutella on a loaf of bread and finished it off with half a gallon of icecream with chocolate cookies on top

over 5000 kcals on top of normal food and not even clean (= carbs) but complete trash fat+sugar mix

then the next 2 days your hunger is completely curbed

stay strict and suffer a bit the 2 days following such a cheat day and youll be LIGHTER THAN BEFORE on the 3rd day

it ALWAYS went like this for me, no matter how much trash i ate on the cheat day

[Rammstein]

What's the consensus on building muscle on high fat/low carb?

[Jizmo]

my opinion: waste of time, forget about it

[Thong Maniac]

my opinion: waste of time, forget about it

Im kind of trying this, although half ass cuz im afriad of being a slob

[Obvious Gimmick]

my opinion: waste of time, forget about it

Even on gear?

[Thong Maniac]

Any idea what u can eat while traveling thru airports and what not? Jerky has sugar in it and u can only eat so many nuts

[Disgusted]

numerous.. i think carbs in general are not as deleterious as some make it sound

the main culprit for that is not carbs but sugar (causing inflammation and by that causing scores of various diseases)

Wrong, all carbs are broken down into glucose so too many carbs will still cause inflammation specifically of the endothelial wall in the heart.

[Disgusted]

AD is ketosis. youre just out of ketosis during the carb up and the following 2-3 days, then youll be back into ketosis.
30g carbs are also not recommended. theyre the MAXIMUM that youre allowed to eat.
this statement alone shows that you have zero clue about the topic

if you consume too much protein then the body uses it as fuel = gluconeogenesis (which would normally take place from carbs, but with no carbs and an abundance of protein it happens aswell).
gluconeogenesis kicks you out of ketosis.

fat can not be converted into glucose   if the body uses fat as fuel = ketosis
ketosis would be impossible if fat could be converted into glucose
neither nor

Again you're wrong. Fats can be converted from fatty acids into glucose. You need to do some reading on basic nutrition. Glycogenesis does NOT kick you out of ketosis. You're brain needs glucose to function therefore you can NOT stop your body from converting the protein into glucose for brain function. 

[Disgusted]

What's the consensus on building muscle on high fat/low carb?

 Of course you can. I've personally done it and many of my clients through out the years have and yes on ZERO carbs!!!

[Jizmo]

Wrong, all carbs are broken down into glucose so too many carbs will still cause inflammation specifically of the endothelial wall in the heart.

consuming straight glucose is completely different from consuming complex carbohydrates

Again you're wrong. Fats can be converted from fatty acids into glucose. You need to do some reading on basic nutrition. Glycogenesis does NOT kick you out of ketosis. You're brain needs glucose to function therefore you can NOT stop your body from converting the protein into glucose for brain function.  

EXCESS gluconeogenesis DOES kick you out of ketosis.
plus your brain CAN use fat as fuel. thats essentially the POINT of ketosis, lol.
ketone bodies ARE used by your brain and you DO NOT need glucose.
maybe YOU need to do some reading on basic nutrition.  

[Obvious Gimmick]

I've learned more in this thread than 7 years on getbig 

Thanks amigos

[Disgusted]

consuming straight glucose is completely different from consuming complex carbohydrates
EXCESS gluconeogenesis DOES kick you out of ketosis.
plus your brain CAN use fat as fuel. thats essentially the POINT of ketosis, lol.
ketone bodies ARE used by your brain and you DO NOT need glucose.
maybe YOU need to do some reading on basic nutrition.  

Dear god, what the hell in excess glycogenesis!

The brain gets a portion of its energy from ketone bodies when glucose is less available (e.g., during fasting, strenuous exercise, low carbohydrate, ketogenic diet and in neonates). In the event of low blood glucose, most other tissues have additional energy sources besides ketone bodies (such as fatty acids), but the brain has an obligatory requirement for some glucose

Glycogenesis will happen regardless for brain function!!!  So again you are wrong. The brain can not survive on ketones alone.

[Thespritz0]

Any idea what u can eat while traveling thru airports and what not? Jerky has sugar in it and u can only eat so many nuts

^^
BURGER with no bun...

[Disgusted]

consuming straight glucose is completely different from consuming complex carbohydrates
EXCESS gluconeogenesis DOES kick you out of ketosis.
plus your brain CAN use fat as fuel. thats essentially the POINT of ketosis, lol.
ketone bodies ARE used by your brain and you DO NOT need glucose.
maybe YOU need to do some reading on basic nutrition.  

Not saying you are wrong, but I would like to specifically what you mean. I am speaking of inflammation of the endothelial wall.