Author Topic: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?  (Read 50793 times)

Wiggs

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #175 on: April 13, 2015, 11:54:02 AM »
This is incorrect.  He did not get progressively worse, as his 95 was much better than 94.

You're correct.  He looked better in 95. 96 he was good but flat and by then his biceps were horrid. 97 He was atrocious.
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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #176 on: April 13, 2015, 11:54:59 AM »
Funny...
Two years later also at a Grand Prix show, here comes Ronnie, smaller waist, flatter abs, better arms, better chest, and most importantly, a back that can complete with Dorians. Ronnie owns the back double bicep pose. His is the all times best in his prime.  Dorian doesn't have the bicep peaks to pull the pose off better and his arms are at least an inch or two smaller that Colemans. While Dorian is in better condition, Coleman his more detailed with a smaller waist.  Guys like to go off on different arguments about this saying he barely beat Flex.  All these arguments have nothing to do with what we're talking about. Throwing Dorian in there being a 6 time Mr. O would have changed the dynamic of the show. Flex more than likely would have been a clear 3rd.  The focus would have been on Coleman and his ginormous improvements and riding the wave of his Night of Champions win. Dorian peaked in 93. In some form or another he got progressively worse each year with 97 looking his worse. His waist was wide he wasn't as sharp as previous years and his arms looked like twigs on an huge back. He had seen the best of Dorian 4 years ago.  Colemans 98 was his prime. He would have absolutely embarrassed Dorians.  Flex and Ronnie compared better back then when Ronnie was smaller. That wasn't the first time Ronnie had beaten Flex. Ronnie did what Flex couldn't put more mass on and come in condition.  Flex had the prettier frame but Coleman had the better constitution, will, ability to put on size and get shredded where Flex couldn't (Hams and Glutes). They compared alot better when Ronnie was smaller.  Ronnie and Dorian is a different animal. Ronnie in 98 makes Dorian look really bad and he doesn't even have to match his conditioning to do it. He came in his best condition which was really dry and had everything Dorian didn't have. Ronnie would have won in 98.




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Funny...
Two years later also at a Grand Prix show, here comes Ronnie, smaller waist, flatter abs, better arms, better chest, and most importantly, a back that can complete with Dorians. Ronnie owns the back double bicep pose.

Ronnie always had a smaller waist , flatter abs ,and better arms and a ' better chest ' and a excellent back , and he still lost time-in-time-out. Where did Ronnie 98 improve over 97? conditioning only and his conditioning is NOT in Dorian's league. And Flex has a smaller waist , flatter abs , better arms , and a back that was fantastic and always lost .

Ronnie owned the back double biceps pose compared to those he competed with , not against Dorian , you think an advantage in biceps peak makes up for nothing below the knees? Claves are just as important as biceps in this pose and Ronnie's calves are a fuck of a lot worse than Dorian's biceps

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Guys like to go off on different arguments about this saying he barely beat Flex.  All these arguments have nothing to do with what we're talking about.

Wrong , it's a clear indication on how things would go. A career best Ronnie in 1998 just barely beats Flex Wheeler who wasn't even close to his best which was 1993 which Dorian trounced yet he's supposed to beat Dorian? Not happening , especially not with bitch-tits

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The focus would have been on Coleman and his ginormous improvements and riding the wave of his Night of Champions win.

What improvements? the ONLY thing he improved on was density & dryness , Dorian wrote the book on that. What improvements did Ronnie make over 97? For once he came in dialed in , He didn't bring up any lagging bodyparts , he didn't come in bigger while being in shape in fact he came in lighter , what improvements?  ???

Ronnie 98 isn't touching Dorian ever just not happening. And that's his best shape or one of them.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #177 on: April 13, 2015, 12:00:14 PM »
Ronnie 97-98

WOW you improved your conditioning and barely beat Flex lol you're now supposed to beat Dorian? lol  ::)

Da fuck Outta here

Dorian would man handle little Ronnie , he has ZERO advantages , not in muscular bulk , not in density , not in dryness , not in posing , not in presentation , he's not as complete

Bevo

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #178 on: April 13, 2015, 12:01:28 PM »
He kicked Ronnie's ass for years on end with those arms. Ronnie 98 is Ronnie 97 dry & hard sprinkled with bitch-tits , and we all know Dorian wrote the book on dry & hard , The only difference between 97 & 98 is conditioning. He's not bigger , he's not more balanced , he didn't bring up any weak points , he's the same just in shape. Ronnie 97 was 9th against a career worst Dorian , you think with improved conditioning he's gonna beat a career best Dorian? NOT going to happen.

Everyone supposedly had better arms them him and he still beat them.


 ;D

From a not competitive bbing point of view I think Ronnie had the better physique as far as round muscle bellies go

If u had to pick between the two physiques as far as being "attainable" which would u pick?


NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #179 on: April 13, 2015, 12:07:57 PM »

 ;D

From a not competitive bbing point of view I think Ronnie had the better physique as far as round muscle bellies go

If u had to pick between the two physiques as far as being "attainable" which would u pick?



Neither are " attainable " I wouldn't want to look like either of them.

Dorian's not my favorite either I would rather look like Samir Bannout or Steve Reeves or Frank Zane or Bob Paris , eons before looking like Dorian , but Dorian is a winning machine and Ronnie wouldn't beat him and statistically couldn't beat him. Especially not 1998 bitch-tits 249lbs

Wiggs

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #180 on: April 13, 2015, 12:24:41 PM »
Ronnie 97-98

WOW you improved your conditioning and barely beat Flex lol you're now supposed to beat Dorian? lol  ::)

Da fuck Outta here

Dorian would man handle little Ronnie , he has ZERO advantages , not in muscular bulk , not in density , not in dryness , not in posing , not in presentation , he's not as complete

Calm down, you're wrong. You're whole argument is now around that he barely beat Flex as if the margin of victory determines whether or not he compares to Dorian.  That is incorrect.  Lets try using our eyes and using some logic.   I don't respect your irrelevant arguments.  That's in your world. I'm looking at two videos, 98 Ronnie Coleman in which he himself said he was his best, and 93 Dorian in which he was his best.  If I look at those two videos and any and all pics, Ronnie is the winner. Why?  It comes down to what the IFBB embodies and what they're looking for.  I believe 98 Ronnie embodies that more than Dorian.  I don't care what past placings say.  I'm going off what I see with my two eyes. The difference between the two that makes me go with Coleman is that his structure is better.  I like that he has a smaller waist which gives for a dramatic taper. His shape is better.  I'll take that over being grainy any day of the week. I also believe that in a show, Coleman would have the edge it all depends on who the judges are.  In all that, I still like 1991 Lee Haney's physique better.

         
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #181 on: April 13, 2015, 12:44:02 PM »
Calm down, you're wrong. You're whole argument is now around that he barely beat Flex as if the margin of victory determines whether or not he compares to Dorian.  That is incorrect.  Lets try using our eyes and using some logic.   I don't respect your irrelevant arguments.  That's in your world. I'm looking at two videos, 98 Ronnie Coleman in which he himself said he was his best, and 93 Dorian in which he was his best.  If I look at those two videos and any and all pics, Ronnie is the winner. Why?  It comes down to what the IFBB embodies and what they're looking for.  I believe 98 Ronnie embodies that more than Dorian.  I don't care what past placings say.  I'm going off what I see with my two eyes. The difference between the two that makes me go with Coleman is that his structure is better.  I like that he has a smaller waist which gives for a dramatic taper. His shape is better.  I'll take that over being grainy any day of the week. I also believe that in a show, Coleman would have the edge it all depends on who the judges are

         


Contests aren't judged on what you like better.

The argument isn't only on how he had a hard time with Flex , it's also based on the fact that he never beat Dorian , he didn't really improve in over 1997 other than conditioning and it's also based on the fact that Dorian statistically would beat him , Dorian simply satisfies the criteria better than Ronnie.

You like what you like , you think it would beat Dorian , cool. Statistically he couldn't and in all probability he couldn't. he doesn't touch Dorian in the criteria he doesn't carry more muscle bulk 257lbs vs 249lbs and Dorian's an inch shorter. He doesn't touch Dorian in density & dryness , he's not a better poser and presenter , he's not more complete. And he's got bitch-tits

Dorian 1993 was so far and beyond everyone else he didn't even need to be included in the muscularity round. That didn't even happen to Ronnie 2003 , Ronnie 98 beat a sub-par Flex by 3 points lol and he's supposed to beat Dorian? That makes sense to you?

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #182 on: April 13, 2015, 12:45:32 PM »
Calm down, you're wrong. You're whole argument is now around that he barely beat Flex as if the margin of victory determines whether or not he compares to Dorian.  That is incorrect.  Lets try using our eyes and using some logic.   I don't respect your irrelevant arguments.  That's in your world. I'm looking at two videos, 98 Ronnie Coleman in which he himself said he was his best, and 93 Dorian in which he was his best.  If I look at those two videos and any and all pics, Ronnie is the winner. Why?  It comes down to what the IFBB embodies and what they're looking for.  I believe 98 Ronnie embodies that more than Dorian.  I don't care what past placings say.  I'm going off what I see with my two eyes. The difference between the two that makes me go with Coleman is that his structure is better.  I like that he has a smaller waist which gives for a dramatic taper. His shape is better.  I'll take that over being grainy any day of the week. I also believe that in a show, Coleman would have the edge it all depends on who the judges are.  In all that, I still like 1991 Lee Haney's physique better.

         

HANEY went out with a bang,gets in his alltime best shape after 90 drug tested year .looked insane that yr...

Wiggs

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #183 on: April 13, 2015, 01:06:32 PM »
Contests aren't judged on what you like better.

The argument isn't only on how he had a hard time with Flex , it's also based on the fact that he never beat Dorian , he didn't really improve in over 1997 other than conditioning and it's also based on the fact that Dorian statistically would beat him , Dorian simply satisfies the criteria better than Ronnie.

You like what you like , you think it would beat Dorian , cool. Statistically he couldn't and in all probability he couldn't. he doesn't touch Dorian in the criteria he doesn't carry more muscle bulk 257lbs vs 249lbs and Dorian's an inch shorter. He doesn't touch Dorian in density & dryness , he's not a better poser and presenter , he's not more complete. And he's got bitch-tits

Dorian 1993 was so far and beyond everyone else he didn't even need to be included in the muscularity round. That didn't even happen to Ronnie 2003 , Ronnie 98 beat a sub-par Flex by 3 points lol and he's supposed to beat Dorian? That makes sense to you?

No offense, but I don't care.  What does it matter statistically?  I'm going on what I see in front of me. You can't do that because you'd lose the argument.  I'm done.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #184 on: April 13, 2015, 01:11:00 PM »
No offense, but I don't care.  What does it matter statistically?  I'm going on what I see in front of me. You can't do that because you'd lose the argument.  I'm done.

lol Of course you don't care. You've mad up your mind. I'm going by what I see in front of me. And Dorian mops the floor with bitch-tits


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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #185 on: April 13, 2015, 02:36:33 PM »
lol Of course you don't care. You've mad up your mind. I'm going by what I see in front of me. And Dorian mops the floor with bitch-tits



Arguing Dorian would beat Ronnie in 98 is like arguing Branch Warren placing ahead of Cedric McMillan at the AC this year...did Cedric get screwed? Yes. Would Coleman have got screwed? Yes.  And whats the common factor? The judging.  Like I said earlier, Dorian may have beat Ronnie in 98 if he competed due to how the judging works in the IFBB.  That doesn't mean he would have deserved it, and Ronnie surely was a better bodybuiler in 98 than 97.  Without a doubt Dorian would have been supplanted by 99.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #186 on: April 13, 2015, 02:48:16 PM »
Arguing Dorian would beat Ronnie in 98 is like arguing Branch Warren placing ahead of Cedric McMillan at the AC this year...did Cedric get screwed? Yes. Would Coleman have got screwed? Yes.  And whats the common factor? The judging.  Like I said earlier, Dorian may have beat Ronnie in 98 if he competed due to how the judging works in the IFBB.  That doesn't mean he would have deserved it, and Ronnie surely was a better bodybuiler in 98 than 97.  Without a doubt Dorian would have been supplanted by 99, and Ronnie would still have ended up with more Olympia titles.

Comparing Branch to Dorian , great logic  ::)

Coleman wouldn't get ' screwed ' he would be beaten. Ronnie was better in 98 than 97 and the only reason he was better was due to conditioning. And Dorian would trample Ronnie 99 as well , Ronnie 98 was better than Ronnie 99 , Why? Same reason he was better in 98 than 97 , conditioning.

And I'm talking at their bests , I don't think Dorian 97 would've beaten Ronnie 98

Neptune100

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #187 on: April 13, 2015, 04:10:22 PM »
Comparing Branch to Dorian , great logic  ::)

Coleman wouldn't get ' screwed ' he would be beaten. Ronnie was better in 98 than 97 and the only reason he was better was due to conditioning. And Dorian would trample Ronnie 99 as well , Ronnie 98 was better than Ronnie 99 , Why? Same reason he was better in 98 than 97 , conditioning.

And I'm talking at their bests , I don't think Dorian 97 would've beaten Ronnie 98


Well at least you concede that Dorian 97 would not have beaten Ronnie 98.  I can respect and understand that you think Dorian 93 is better than Ronnie 98. What about Coleman 01 ASC? Conditioning to rival 98 and size too.

SF1900

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #188 on: April 13, 2015, 04:16:41 PM »
You know ND is a gigantic schmoe when he makes a Shawn vs Dex thread into a Ronnie vs Dorian thread.  ;D ;D ;D
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andreisdaman

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #189 on: April 13, 2015, 04:20:24 PM »
You know ND is a gigantic schmoe when he makes a Shawn vs Dex thread into a Ronnie vs Dorian thread.  ;D ;D ;D

HA!....what ever happened to that thread???...was it deleted?..went on and on for years...definitely a GetBig Hall of Fame thread

SF1900

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #190 on: April 13, 2015, 04:23:53 PM »
HA!....what ever happened to that thread???...was it deleted?..went on and on for years...definitely a GetBig Hall of Fame thread

I tried to locate it a few days back and could not find it. That thread will definitely go down in GB history.

I hope it was not deleted. Perhaps ND may be able to locate it.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #191 on: April 13, 2015, 04:30:30 PM »
You know ND is a gigantic schmoe when he makes a Shawn vs Dex thread into a Ronnie vs Dorian thread.  ;D ;D ;D

In my defense I never start this nonsense it's trolls like you  ;D

Dex would MURDER Ray still

SF1900

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #192 on: April 13, 2015, 04:40:02 PM »
In my defense I never start this nonsense it's trolls like you  ;D

Dex would MURDER Ray still

I don't think I was responsible for bring up Dorian vs Ronnie in this thread!

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #193 on: April 13, 2015, 04:44:41 PM »
I don't think I was responsible for bring up Dorian vs Ronnie in this thread!



Wiggs did lol I apologize , troll on  ;D

Wiggs

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #194 on: April 13, 2015, 05:10:39 PM »
In my defense I never start this nonsense it's trolls like you  ;D

Dex would MURDER Ray still

Yes, Dexter would murder Shawn like he did all 3 times he placed lower than him every time he competed. 0-3.
Right.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #195 on: April 13, 2015, 05:16:30 PM »
Yes, Dexter would murder Shawn like he did all 3 times he placed lower than him every time he competed. 0-3.
Right.

Yes , Ronnie would murder Dorian like he did all 8 times he placed lower than him every time he competed. 0-8.
Right.  ;)

Wiggs

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #196 on: April 13, 2015, 05:31:45 PM »
Yes , Ronnie would murder Dorian like he did all 8 times he placed lower than him every time he competed. 0-8.
Right.  ;)

I'm not talking bout Ronnie or Dorian anymore.  I told you, "I'm done".  I'm talking about Dexter and Shawn, try to stay on topic, I understand it may be difficult. One has nothing to do with the other,quit trying to make it so.
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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #197 on: April 13, 2015, 05:37:44 PM »
I'm not talking bout Ronnie or Dorian anymore.  I told you, "I'm done".  I'm talking about Dexter and Shawn, try to stay on topic, I understand it may be difficult. One has nothing to do with the other,quit trying to make it so.

And I'm talking about YOUR warped ' logic ' that brings you to these loony conclusions. You don't like your own logic when it's used against you.

Dexter would kick Shawn's ass because he carries more muscular bulk , equal if not better conditioning , just as complete and no where near as narrow.

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #198 on: April 13, 2015, 05:44:37 PM »


Sorry Shawn always a bride's maid and never the bride  ;D

http://www.flexonline.com/general-news/olympia-clash-titans-jackson-vs-ray



The 2009 Mr. Olympia on September 25-26 is shaping up to be the most competitive in history. Loaded with star power that hasn't been seen since the explosion of talent that populated the lineups of the nineties and into the new millennium, it sparks the timeless debate: Who was better, the champions of yesterday or the champions of today? To answer that, we've pitted the class of '09 against legendary names from the past, each in a one on one battle to determine once and for all, who will reign supreme. The seventh in our Olympia Clash of the Titans series features reigning Mr. Olympia Dexter Jackson facing Shawn Ray.

GO HERE FOR A COMPLETE LIST AND PROFILES OF ALL QUALIFIED OLYMPIA COMPETITORS!

TALE OF THE TAPE

   
NAME: Dexter Jackson
HEIGHT: 5'7"
WEIGHT: 235 pounds
OLYMPIA HISTORY: 1999, 9th; 2000, 9th; 2001, 8th; 2002, 4th; 2003, 3rd; 2004, 4th; 2006, 4th; 2007, 3rd; 2008, 1st   NAME: Shawn Ray
HEIGHT: 5'7"
WEIGHT: 205 pounds
OLYMPIA HISTORY: 1988, 13th; 1990, 3rd; 1991, 5th; 1992, 4th; 1993, 3rd; 1994, 2nd; 1995, 4th; 1996, 2nd; 1997, 3rd; 1998, 5th; 1999, 5th; 2000, 4th; 2001, 4th
SCOUTING REPORT: JACKSON
Jackson is the smallest man to wear the Olympia crown since Samir Bannout was bodybuilding's king back in 1983. Nevertheless, it's a testament to the excellence of his physique that Jackson was able to buck a 24-year trend. From neck to knee "The Blade" displays no weaknesses, and while his calves aren't quite up to the standards of the rest of his body, they do little to detract from his overall impressiveness.

SCOUTING REPORT: RAY
Shawn Ray is roundly considered one of the most proportioned bodybuilders in the sport's history. Although he never won an Olympia title, Ray made the top six an unprecedented 12 times, taking 2nd twice and 3rd three times. Although at just 205 pounds Ray couldn't dominate with size, he did routinely beat guys 50-70 pounds heavier with a near-perfect combination of mass, shape, proportion and definition.

FRONT VIEW:
This is almost too close to call. Jackson is crisper and has slightly fuller muscles. Ray's almost concave midsection and proportioned calves show a more complete look. Jackson has the wider shoulder structure.

SIDE VIEW:
Again, a very close call. Jackson's lagging calves are less noticeable here, evening things out. Ray's stellar serratus are on full display.

REAR VIEW:
Jackson's superior width gives pause, although Ray accounts well of himself in the rear double biceps shot, which highlights his great detail.

THE WINNER: JACKSON
By an eyelash. Even despite his calf deficit, Jackson's superior width and ultra-conditioning give him the edge. Were Ray to have been pressed to achieve the dryness that's de rigeur of Olympia competitors circa 2009 the outcome could be different


Wiggs

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Re: Who had the better physique - Shawn ray or Dexter jackson?
« Reply #199 on: April 13, 2015, 06:15:38 PM »
And I'm talking about YOUR warped ' logic ' that brings you to these loony conclusions. You don't like your own logic when it's used against you.

Dexter would kick Shawn's ass because he carries more muscular bulk , equal if not better conditioning , just as complete and no where near as narrow.

Then why has he never done the 3 times they competed against each other? ::)
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