Freddie Gray's death ruled a homicide

[Skip8282]

I should note though, they've stated his leg was not broken during arrest.  I don't think it was broke at all in fact.

[240 is Back]

Not hard to find, unless you really don't want to...

Skip to :51

great point.   Tough for anyone to deny it, no matter how hard they want to kneepad law enforcement.

[Dos Equis]

Uh yeah dude, just like every single other case in the criminal justice system, the ME was not there. 

As for the charge, it's 2nd degree and defined as reckless disregard for a persons life.

Again, full grown, responsible, mature adults put him in the back of van with no means of stabilizing himself.  That seems to be a reckless disregard for life.

I have little doubt that if some parent stuck their kid in the back of car who was unable to stabilize themselves and the kid died from getting bounced around, you would zero problem with the charge.

But, cops....gotta cover for them, lol.

I see.  So when you said this:

No, that's just selectively taking one part of it.  The ME said there were multiple acts of omission in both not securing him in AND failing to get him help on some 3 or 4 occasions. 

you realized that you were not actually citing evidence, but only what the prosecutor told the ME? 

No, simply putting a handcuffed person in the back of a police van is not by itself a reckless disregard for human life.

But when you hate the cops and believe we live in a police state, you can fill in those pukas (holes) with whatever facts fits your anti-law enforcement theory. 

[Skip8282]

I see.  So when you said this:

you realized that you were not actually citing evidence, but only what the prosecutor told the ME? 

No, simply putting a handcuffed person in the back of a police van is not by itself a reckless disregard for human life.

But when you hate the cops and believe we live in a police state, you can fill in those pukas (holes) with whatever facts fits your anti-law enforcement theory. 

Just more distortion.  I've been very clear that the only thing we know is what was leaked to the Baltimore Sun.  Could be true, could be dead wrong.

Right now, we don't know that's what the prosecutor told the ME, for all we know the ME interviewed the cops themselves.

Yes, putting a handcuffed man in the back of a police van WITHOUT SECURING HIM IN, is a reckless disregard for human life.

But when you're a cop cheerleader, you've got to look for anything to grasp onto.

Damn Cheerleaders and haters, lol.

[Dos Equis]

Not hard to find, unless you really don't want to...

Skip to :51

First time I've watched this.  Had to get past the host, who isn't the most credible person.  In any event, two things:

1.  It does not show whether he was unable to walk or simply refusing to walk.  Didn't the autopsy show he been using multiple drugs?

2.  This is not evidence that the "police beat his ass, broke something."

[Skip8282]

First time I've watched this.  Had to get past the host, who isn't the most credible person.  In any event, two things:

1.  It does not show whether he was unable to walk or simply refusing to walk.  Didn't the autopsy show he been using multiple drugs?

2.  This is not evidence that the "police beat his ass, broke something."

Yeah, I think he had like 3 or 4 drugs in his system.

[Dos Equis]

Just more distortion.  I've been very clear that the only thing we know is what was leaked to the Baltimore Sun.  Could be true, could be dead wrong.

Right now, we don't know that's what the prosecutor told the ME, for all we know the ME interviewed the cops themselves.

Yes, putting a handcuffed man in the back of a police van WITHOUT SECURING HIM IN, is a reckless disregard for human life.

But when you're a cop cheerleader, you've got to look for anything to grasp onto.

Damn Cheerleaders and haters, lol.

That is such a red herring.  Ok.  Let's assume it was the cops who told the ME that Gray was not restrained.  The fact is the only reason the "ME said there were multiple acts of omission in both not securing him in AND failing to get him help on some 3 or 4 occasions," was because that's what someone told the ME (prosecutor, cops, or whomever).  I think it was likely the prosecutor. 

If you put a handcuffed man in the back of a police van and speed, make sudden stops, etc., then you are probably displaying a reckless disregard for human life.  We don't have those facts.  But that won't stop you cop haters from filling in the blanks.   

[Skip8282]

That is such a red herring.  Ok.  Let's assume it was the cops who told the ME that Gray was not restrained.  The fact is the only reason the "ME said there were multiple acts of omission in both not securing him in AND failing to get him help on some 3 or 4 occasions," was because that's what someone told the ME (prosecutor, cops, or whomever).  I think it was likely the prosecutor. 

If you put a handcuffed man in the back of a police van and speed, make sudden stops, etc., then you are probably displaying a reckless disregard for human life.  We don't have those facts.  But that won't stop you cop haters from filling in the blanks.   

Yes Beach...EVERY case in the criminal justice system where the ME is doing an investigation like this results in the ME talking to people to find out what happened.  The ME is not at every death.  So the ME puts in their report the results of the investigation - hence the 'ME said'.

Now you're taking this to a child's level.

Nobody has said we have the facts, I've said the opposite, but you've got nothing left so you're grasping at straws to attack me.

All I've pointed out is that from what's been leaked, it suggests the charge is valid.  It could very well turn out otherwise, and I think they have a significant hurdle to overcome if they didn't call for EMS when the guy asked for it (but that too remains to be seen, because maybe one of them did).  You're claim of an 'accident' isn't supported anywhere.

[Dos Equis]

Yes Beach...EVERY case in the criminal justice system where the ME is doing an investigation like this results in the ME talking to people to find out what happened.  The ME is not at every death.  So the ME puts in their report the results of the investigation - hence the 'ME said'.

Now you're taking this to a child's level.

Nobody has said we have the facts, I've said the opposite, but you've got nothing left so you're grasping at straws to attack me.

All I've pointed out is that from what's been leaked, it suggests the charge is valid.  It could very well turn out otherwise, and I think they have a significant hurdle to overcome if they didn't call for EMS when the guy asked for it (but that too remains to be seen, because maybe one of them did).  You're claim of an 'accident' isn't supported anywhere.

The point you're missing is the only reason the ME classified this as a homicide is because someone told the ME Gray was not restrained. 

You should go back read our exchanges.  Who started with the cop lover/anti-cop labeling? 

I don't know what happened.  I have just started reading about this case.  My opinion will take me wherever the facts lead. 

[Skip8282]

The point you're missing is the only reason the ME classified this as a homicide is because someone told the ME Gray was not restrained. 

You should go back read our exchanges.  Who started with the cop lover/anti-cop labeling? 

I don't know what happened.  I have just started reading about this case.  My opinion will take me wherever the facts lead. 

Well then maybe I'm lost.  If you're only saying that he could've been properly restrained in the van and we have to wait for that fact to come out, I would agree 100%.

The knife is a good example.  Initially it was claimed that there was nothing illegal about it.  From what's being reported now, they dropped the charges against the cops because the knife was in fact illegal.

Alright...interesting discussion.  Off to watch Get Hard with Will Ferrel now.  

[Dos Equis]

Well then maybe I'm lost.  If you're only saying that he could've been properly restrained in the van and we have to wait for that fact to come out, I would agree 100%.

The knife is a good example.  Initially it was claimed that there was nothing illegal about it.  From what's being reported now, they dropped the charges against the cops because the knife was in fact illegal.

Alright...interesting discussion.  Off to watch Get Hard with Will Ferrel now.  

I'm not disputing he wasn't restrained.  I'm disputing your contention that being unrestrained, by itself, with nothing more, is a reckless disregard for human life.

Enjoy the movie.   

[Agnostic007]

your synopsis of Dos Equis is 100% correct.  He's resorted to trusting the ever-changing word of a convict over the M.E., the prosecutor, etc. 

Also you're probably right they'll be let off the hook.  Or plead out.  Always works out that way.  Doesn't mean they didn't brake test him or deny him medical attention when asked, just that they'll beat the rap. 

Dos equis probably still thinks OJ is innocent too?

U predicted Hernandez would skate....  So lets not get too use to that high horse

[240 is Back]

U predicted Hernandez would skate....  So lets not get too use to that high horse

I made up for that by calling the Lebron CLE return during the NBA season.  

[The Ugly]

your synopsis of Dos Equis is 100% correct.  He's resorted to trusting the ever-changing word of a convict over the M.E., the prosecutor, etc. 

Also you're probably right they'll be let off the hook.  Or plead out.  Always works out that way.  Doesn't mean they didn't brake test him or deny him medical attention when asked, just that they'll beat the rap. 

Dos equis probably still thinks OJ is innocent too?

This sounds MUCH more like you, Rob. Helluva spin there, brother.

[The Ugly]

Not hard to find, unless you really don't want to...

Skip to :51

This is evidence that police abused him?

[The Ugly]

great point.   Tough for anyone to deny it, no matter how hard they want to kneepad law enforcement.

I'm starting to think you're one of the least honest or credible here when it comes to these cases. What does that video show other than a normal arrest, with a suspect dragging his leg and yelling?

You kneepad perps just the same.

[240 is Back]

I'm starting to think you're one of the least honest or credible here when it comes to these cases. What does that video show other than a normal arrest, with a suspect dragging his leg and yelling?

You kneepad perps just the same.

nah, I thought Wilson was justified to shoot the brains out that head, when he was reaching into the car.  See, I often think BOTH people are scumbags, the perp and the cop, in many situations.  I'd like to see them both in prison, ya know?  I have no love for bad guys, I've called trayvon a scumbag many times.

[Agnostic007]

I question the judgment and impartiality of anyone who looks at that video at the 51 second mark and draws the conclusion the cops beat his ass. Complete speculation at that point

[Dos Equis]

I question the judgment and impartiality of anyone who looks at that video at the 51 second mark and draws the conclusion the cops beat his ass. Complete speculation at that point

I agree. 

[Agnostic007]

I agree. 

I'm not saying they didn't I'm just saying that video doesn't show it.

[Dos Equis]

I'm not saying they didn't I'm just saying that video doesn't show it.

I'm saying the same thing.  I don't know whether the cops beat the guy up or murdered him.  Maybe they did.  That's what the evidence will need to tell us.  I don't think the video is evidence of him being beaten up or murdered. 

[The Ugly]

I'm saying the same thing.  I don't know whether the cops beat the guy up or murdered him.  Maybe they did.  That's what the evidence will need to tell us.  I don't think the video is evidence of him being beaten up or murdered.  

Thirded. All's I'm saying is this here is a ridiculously biased conclusion:

Tough for anyone to deny it, no matter how hard they want to kneepad law enforcement.

[Dos Equis]

Thirded. All's I'm saying is this here is a ridiculously biased conclusion:

And another ridiculously biased conclusion from the same person:

LOL I was screaming loudest, a week ago, that the police were on video dragging his already-limp ass to the van.  He didn't do it to himself.  I ranted about the bullshit blue shield.

And I called it bullshit when the police "leaked" the "anonymous" prisoner report that he was innocent.

We all know what happened, police beat his ass, broke something, had an "oh shit!' moment and voila, the pressure hit and one of them blabbed on the other - rightfully so!

[Agnostic007]

And another ridiculously biased conclusion from the same person:

Yeah... 240 really has a blind spot the size of Nevada when it comes to these things...

[Dos Equis]

Yeah... 240 really has a blind spot the size of Nevada when it comes to these things...

It's not a blind spot.  It's just abject dishonesty.