Harley Breite - Appreciation thread

[HarleyBreite]

I agree it can be quite narrow, nevertheless I can't see a scenario where yours would not be high. (no homo)

"High" is a relative term.

[Las Vegas]

Count four of the indictment said the Ramseys "did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenét Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen."

Count seven of the indictment said the Ramseys did "unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death."

[HarleyBreite]

Harley, I know you mentioned it, but could you give a few more thoughts on what happened with the grand jury? 

Dear Las Vegas,
  In the Ramsey case?  The DA simply refused to sign the Indictment which is the formal paper with the charges levied by the GJ.
  Virtually unprecedented.
Harley

[HarleyBreite]

Count four of the indictment said the Ramseys "did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenét Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen."

Count seven of the indictment said the Ramseys did "unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death."

Dear Las Vegas,
  Sounds to me, and I am no expert, but it appears they indicted the son.
Harley

[Las Vegas]

Totally fine.  Drugs and guns. Nothing special.

Would you mind giving the story, you crazy stud?  I'll bet you're the only person on this site who has ever come close to a situation like that and especially in a place like Venezuela. (and it figures it was you, too!!  )

[HarleyBreite]

That's why I wanted to specifically point out the difference between women and men when they good bad (heart ache to their family in the case of women and a menace to society in the case of men). When I said that Black young adult males disproportionately represent the amount of violent crime in our culture it was in the context that not only are they young adult males (the highest percentage of violent crime in all races and culture) but it's more predominate in Black culture not because of their skin color as such but because of their culture. A fatherless culture due in no small part to the role the government played in the creation of the welfare State and assuming the role of the father/provider. I am not sure that everyone is aware that the Black family unit was very close prior to the welfare State going all the way back to slavery.

Of course one may argue that this proves that it is not the skin color per se but the culture. That it has nothing to do with race. But I do think there are behaviors and cultural norms unique to a particular race and there one can make value judgments on that. After all, the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorist but the vast majority of  terrorist are Muslims. Driving a Lambo while dressed as a homeless person does not discount the fact that anyone driving a Lambo represent a small percentage of the population with certain, very unique, traits common to them all. But of course there are always exceptions. But that's why they are called exceptions. You are very unique. Just being a New York Jew and a Defense Attorney would put you in the ultra liberal side of the political spectrum. Your views of government intrusion and gun ownership nixes that right away.

Many years ago I was having work done on my place. The first guy  was White came up and talked with me and my impression was pretty neutral. Seem fine to me. Then I saw his Black partner shuffling up the stairs in casual manner. I was like, "Oh boy. Here we go." Then when he spoke to me everything change. He had an African accent. He was a real Black not an African American (who has more in common with me than he does with any real African). He was from Eritrea. I was totally put at ease. Polite, respectful, spoke perfect English and always a big smile. Of course I had to get his story how he got here from Eritrea and it really humbled me. How lucky and spoiled I am just being born here. A luck of draw that I did nothing to earn or deserve.

But the point being that even though one may have personal biases based on personal experience it doesn't discount the notion that one can also recognize the many exceptions.

Since I started out with a blank slate when I first moved to Inglewood it doesn't bother me when people like Dr. Chimps calls me a racist. He may claim to be just as comfortable going into a Jack in the Box in Inglewood at 2:00 am with his girl friend as he would be in Redondo Beach. But even Jack in the Box knows better from real world experience. Their drive-in in Inglewood has a bullet proof plexiglass barrior between the customer and clerk and you speak through a speaker and your sliding door can't open when their side is open to slide your order into the "neutral zone" and you feel like a dangerous
criminal.  

It's easy to pass judgment in the comfort of your home and safe neighborhood with zero experience as to what life is like in a gang ridden inner city.

Dear Pellius,
 I agree with virtually everything you said except the following;
  1)  I am not from New York.   I live in New Jersey and am damn proud of it.
  2)  I drive a Ferrari, not a Lamborghini.  My Ferrari Club of America membership would be in jeopardy if I didn't correct this error.
Harley

[SquidVicious]

Dear SquidVicious,
  While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I did write that the scenario was "ludicrous" but you must have skipped that, I can tell you one thing with certainty.
  Had I represented ANYONE indicted for that murder and spent time honing that above argument, I would MOST CERTAINLY have created at least 1 reasonable doubt in at
least 1 juror and then--GAME OVER- I WIN!!!
  If that person accused had been you and you had the intelligence and money to hire me, you would have a bit more respect for my argument, especially after it saved your guilty ass. 
Harley

I think you're giving yourself a bit too much credit. Everyone knows that defense lawyers get off on WINNING at all costs, as you delight in boasting above. But most people also know that defense lawyers who WIN do so unethically by lying and creating false narratives designed to fool the least intelligent members of the jury. There's no pride in helping a murderer WIN by composing a preposterous tale intended to trick gullible morons into believing it. Keep telling yourself you're the keeper of the gold. Joseph Pillipurath drove across the country and murdered his wife and an innocent bystander and confessed murdering them in a fit of rage. And then magically after consulting with you, he took the stand and told a completely DIFFERENT story in which he took out the gun innocently and the bystander pushed him and the gun magically went off killing both of them accidentally. Now a moron might believe that he came up with that story on his own but anyone with half a brain understands how these things work. The defense lawyers get all of the evidence FIRST and then concoct a false scenario designed to set their client free. Do you expect us to believe the idiot clients really come up with these stories on their own? No, because usually your clients don't even take the stand. You, the honest defense lawyer stands before the jury spinning tall tales and lies, hoping there's one sucker dumb enough to believe you. That's not being an integral part of the system. It's being part of the problem. But hey, you WIN!

[pellius]

Dear SF1900,
  Surely you don't believe I am responsible for the actions of any other human being, especially with one who possesses a sick drive for which neither I nor he can control.
  I don't devise the penal system.  I didn't create the sentencing guidelines.  Look to your brilliant legislators and lazy prosecutors and inept detectives before looking at me as
I am the devise that cleans up the mess and exposed their inability to do the jobs for which they were chosen and ALL PAID BY THE PUBLIC.  Some of them are actually elected!!!
  Do you really believe that I "want to see a child molester let out of jail early or only serve a minimal sentence" for any other reason than to ensure a fair criminal process?  If you did,
you must not think very highly of me.
  I tell you all that you will ALL be thankful for the Defense Attorney should you yourself or a loved one be falsely charged with a crime, especially a heinous crime.  Do you honestly think
that EVERYONE in jail and prison is actually guilty and there is not a single person serving a sentence for a crime he didn't commit?  
  I just hope this is never what is needed for you to see my side of it.
Harley

Do you feel any personal responsibility for your actions when doing your job and following the law. Another words, can there be a case where you won't do your job or follow the law because it conflicts with your personal feelings and beliefs.

For example, lets say, just for the sake of argument, that you are an executioner. You're the doctor that sticks in the needle, pulls the switch, opens the gas valve. Now, again just for the sake of argument, say you know for a fact that the convicted person is innocent. Forget how you know but for the sake of argument you do.

Would you still do your job and perform the execution? It's going to happen whether you do it or not but if you refuse to perform this duty assign to you you will lose your job and definitely be black balled in working in any capacity for the government.

[Las Vegas]

Dear Las Vegas,
  In the Ramsey case?  The DA simply refused to sign the Indictment which is the formal paper with the charges levied by the GJ.
  Virtually unprecedented.
Harley

Do you have any more thoughts on this, Harley?

[HarleyBreite]

I think you're giving yourself a bit too much credit. Everyone knows that defense lawyers get off on WINNING at all costs, as you delight in boasting above. But most people also know that defense lawyers who WIN do so unethically by lying and creating false narratives designed to fool the least intelligent members of the jury. There's no pride in helping a murderer WIN by composing a preposterous tale intended to trick gullible morons into believing it. Keep telling yourself you're the keeper of the gold. Joseph Pillipurath drove across the country and murdered his wife and an innocent bystander and confessed murdering them in a fit of rage. And then magically after consulting with you, he took the stand and told a completely DIFFERENT story in which he took out the gun innocently and the bystander pushed him and the gun magically went off killing both of them accidentally. Now a moron might believe that he came up with that story on his own but anyone with half a brain understands how these things work. The defense lawyers get all of the evidence FIRST and then concoct a false scenario designed to set their client free. Do you expect us to believe the idiot clients really come up with these stories on their own? No, because usually your clients don't even take the stand. You, the honest defense lawyer stands before the jury spinning tall tales and lies, hoping there's one sucker dumb enough to believe you. That's not being an integral part of the system. It's being part of the problem. But hey, you WIN!

Dear SquidVicious,
  You certainly have a right to your opinion but the fact is that not ALL defense attorneys "get off on WINNING at all costs" and when one "wins" it doesn't necessarily mean he did "so unethically by lying..."
  I guess if you or your loved one is ever charged with a crime, you would just walk into court, plead guilty and say, "give me the maximum penalty under the law."
  Of course, that is your right also.
  I'm comfortable in my skin and need not justify what I do and don't do for people.  I just come here to give a bit of insight on how things really are and reveal a bit of what goes
on behind the yellow tape.  
  If some like yourself find that offensive and consider me part of the problem, I accept that.  
  I hope you never end up in trouble in a foreign country where they truly believe that lawyers and Due Process are really "being part of the problem."
Harley

[Army of One]

Do you have any more thoughts on this, Harley?

The general consensus was that it was done to protect Burke, nobody saw any point in ruining another young life.

[Army of One]

Harley, would you still do your job if it paid minimum wage?

[Las Vegas]

Dear Las Vegas,
  Sounds to me, and I am no expert, but it appears they indicted the son.
Harley

I really couldn't imagine what else it might mean.  Also that perhaps the parents had been aware of some recurring interactions between the children that should have been viewed as dangerous.

[HarleyBreite]

Do you feel any personal responsibility for your actions when doing your job and following the law. Another words, can there be a case where you won't do your job or follow the law because it conflicts with your personal feelings and beliefs.

For example, lets say, just for the sake of argument, that you are an executioner. You're the doctor that sticks in the needle, pulls the switch, opens the gas valve. Now, again just for the sake of argument, say you know for a fact that the convicted person is innocent. Forget how you know but for the sake of argument you do.

Would you still do your job and perform the execution? It's going to happen whether you do it or not but if you refuse to perform this duty assign to you you will lose your job and definitely be black balled in working in any capacity for the government.

Dear Pellius,
  No, I feel no "personal responsibility" for my actions when I do my job and follow the law.  To whom should I feel some personal responsibility?  To the lawmakers? To the judge?  To the inept
prosecutor?  To 12 jurors who unanimously voted Not Guilty?  To a society that elects officials who write the laws?  To a criminal justice system which is inarguably flawed but yet, remains the best
criminal justice system in the entire world?
  What about the personal responsibility I feel towards my client who may, in fact, be innocent or perhaps over-charged?
  If I take a job, I do the job.
  Here is one that will piss you guys off:  The ONLY cases I refuse to take are those involving charges of animal cruelty.
  Go ahead and ask what type of fucked up person represents murderers, rapists and child abusers but won't represent an animal abuser.
Harley

[pellius]

Dear Pellius,
 I agree with virtually everything you said except the following;
  1)  I am not from New York.   I live in New Jersey and am damn proud of it.
  2)  I drive a Ferrari, not a Lamborghini.  My Ferrari Club of America membership would be in jeopardy if I didn't correct this error.
Harley

1) Living as far West from you as one possibly can and still be in the U.S. Jersey, New York -- all the same.

2) As one who has no hope in this life time of owning such vehicles, which I couldn't appreciate anyway, Ferrari, Lamborghini -- all the same.

Having said that: my bad.

[Las Vegas]

The general consensus was that it was done to protect Burke, nobody saw any point in ruining another young life.

Who do you mean by "nobody" AoO?

[HarleyBreite]

Harley, would you still do your job if it paid minimum wage?

Dear Army of One,
  Your attempt to drag me into a logical fallacy by having me make the self-admission or for you to conclude that I am merely a whore
and all that is left is to negotiate the price for my services, here legal services.
  Confusing morality with salary is common when attacking those who provide an unpopular service (i.e., the executioner).
  But just to please you, no, I would not do my job for minimum wage.
  However, many times I do my job for less than minimum wage, I do it for free.
  I am not going to come on here and discuss just who or how many I represent or help for free.  I am not a self promoter but at least a few on
GetBig will believe me on this point.
Harley
PS- Would you still do your job for minimum wage?

[HarleyBreite]

1) Living as far West from you as one possibly can and still be in the U.S. Jersey, New York -- all the same.

2) As one who has no hope in this life time of owning such vehicles, which I couldn't appreciate anyway, Ferrari, Lamborghini -- all the same.

Having said that: my bad.

Dear Pellius,
  1)  You must be very careful should you travel to the East Coast as New Jerseyians would be quite miffed to be lumped into the same
category as those rich, arrogant NY folk who forsake a backyard for a subway.
  2)  Never say there is no hope unless you have no desire.  You most certainly would at least appreciate the cars as they are works of mobile art and offer
a different experience.  They are not the reason for my existence but please, don't ever say that a Ferrari and a Lamborghini are "all the same"  The horror!!!  LOL
  No offense ever taken.

[Army of One]

Dear Army of One,
  Your attempt to drag me into a logical fallacy by having me make the self-admission or for you to conclude that I am merely a whore
and all that is left is to negotiate the price for my services, here legal services.
  Confusing morality with salary is common when attacking those who provide an unpopular service (i.e., the executioner).
  But just to please you, no, I would not do my job for minimum wage.
  However, many times I do my job for less than minimum wage, I do it for free.
  I am not going to come on here and discuss just who or how many I represent or help for free.  I am not a self promoter but at least a few on
GetBig will believe me on this point.
Harley
PS- Would you still do your job for minimum wage?

You seem to have confused my intention.I know you love the system that allows everyone to be represented in a court room no matter what, you made no secret of that.I also know you love the money to buy cars, vacations etc, you made no secret of that.I just wondered which would be put above the other, its nothing to be ashamed of admitting, we are all human.For example,I know with certainty that you'd give up both in a heartbeat for your family.

[pellius]

Dear Pellius,
  No, I feel no "personal responsibility" for my actions when I do my job and follow the law.  To whom should I feel some personal responsibility?  To the lawmakers? To the judge?  To the inept
prosecutor?  To 12 jurors who unanimously voted Not Guilty?  To a society that elects officials who write the laws?  To a criminal justice system which is inarguably flawed but yet, remains the best
criminal justice system in the entire world?
  What about the personal responsibility I feel towards my client who may, in fact, be innocent or perhaps over-charged?
  If I take a job, I do the job.
  Here is one that will piss you guys off:  The ONLY cases I refuse to take are those involving charges of animal cruelty.
  Go ahead and ask what type of fucked up person represents murderers, rapists and child abusers but won't represent an animal abuser.
Harley

Who should you feel personal responsibility towards?

Maybe yourself. Having to look at yourself in the mirror.

Does one leave their personal humanity on the shelf when doing their jobs? Is there Harley the civilian: a good, decent compassionate man; and Harley the Defense Attorney whose job is to win cases and the two shall never over lap?

Remember one of the arguments used by the Nazis was that they were just instruments of the State. They were just doing their jobs.

Remember that scene in the Green Mile where Tom Hanks is asking himself what is he going to say when he stands before God knowing that he had executed an innocent man? "What am I going to say? I was doing my job?"

Doing your job.

Regardless of where the order or imperative comes from, one is still responsible for one's actions. If you knowingly kill an innocent man, knowingly get a guilty man off completely, does that relieve you of any personal responsibility because it was your job?

[Las Vegas]

Good point, Harley.  Some people are acting like everyone who is picked up and charged is guilty.  How fucking ridiculous is that?  What kind of bullshit is THAT?

[pellius]

Dear Pellius,
  1)  You must be very careful should you travel to the East Coast as New Jerseyians would be quite miffed to be lumped into the same
category as those rich, arrogant NY folk who forsake a backyard for a subway.
  2)  Never say there is no hope unless you have no desire.  You most certainly would at least appreciate the cars as they are works of mobile art and offer
a different experience.  They are not the reason for my existence but please, don't ever say that a Ferrari and a Lamborghini are "all the same"  The horror!!!  LOL
  No offense ever taken.

LOL! Point taken.

[pellius]

BTW, don't feel any pressure to answer quickly or at all. Some subjects get to involved and takes so much time to resolve over a message board. Plus, I have a huge advantage over you. It's about 5:15 pm here in Hawaii which means it's getting pretty late for you. It's been proven that not getting enough sleep increases cortisol which promotes fat storage.

I don't want to get in your way to epic leans (A Marty Champion/Falcon term).

[Las Vegas]

GB White Knight Special SS

[AbrahamG]

Harley,

My 11 year old son started training in BJJ over the summer.  So far it has been the best money I've spent on him his entire life.  He is on the spectrum
of ADHD and has impulse/anger issues.  Since beginning this training, we've seen very little of his former behavioral patterns.  He also plays hockey and
that season just started.  I've never seen him with better focus and attention to detail ever.  Anyways, my question to you is what is your opinion of Rigan
Machado BJJ?  My son's instructor is the the first if not only Machado BJJ black belt in Michigan.

Thanks,
Larry