Trump = Winning

[chaos]

This isn't the only solution, its a bad one therefore make a better one.

What's a better solution?

[Grape Ape]

you believe the election was stolen? lol

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2103619118

literally zero evidence of it, every lawsuit (60 i believe) the DOJ, survey officials all found zero evidence. the above paper shows statistical evidence that nothing was abnormal.

There isn't one shred of evidence to support it was other then a conman trying to hold onto power exactly like he is now.

it's not my canadian opinion, its simply an objective observers opinion.

Why do I care? I dont really tbh. I have been on this forum since I was 18 I think. Maybe its force of habit. other forums I attended are gone and if I want polemics I have to talk politics. It's also good to tool to learn stuff, arguing with others. On this site you are all crazed right wingers so the only way to get any action is to take the contrarian opinion here. If the religious board was more fun I would be there, lol.

I do think they should make them easy to get. Do that. This isn't it and it will impact elections too harshly, which is doesn't have to do if done coherently. We are in agreeance. This isn't the only solution, its a bad one therefore make a better one.

I said I believe the optics are horrible, and they were.

I believe the 2020 election was heavily influenced by the suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop story, and I believe that doing so was election interference.  I believe folks like Zuckerberg spent almost half a billion, and that the tech industry curated content to drive the results they wanted.

As for all the other nefarious stuff - Dominion, I have not given it a thought.  If a lawsuit comes through, I will watch, but I'm not going put anything into it unless it becomes tangible.

I also think you have to be a complete fool to think in a country with 300+ million, and a ridiculous amount of mail in ballots, that there was no fraud.

So, stolen in the Dominion tampering way?  I'm not there.  Influenced, and maybe impacted by big tech.  Yes.......

You're a data guy right?  Check out this site - all data driven on ephemeral content.  Listen to podcasts with the originator - he has no emotional ties to this.  Lists out, using data, which elections were influenced - tracks sites, etc.....

https://americasdigitalshield.com/

[Primemuscle]

We require ID for nearly everything.  To require it to vote and uphold the law is common sense, and no twisted explanation says otherwise. Plus, the majority of the US wants it.  So to summarize - make getting the ID easy, give time off, and use mail in only for disabilities and if you're out of the country.

Tell me about it! A couple of months ago, I bought a bottle of wine at Safeway. Safeway requires proof of age. Can you imagine how ridiculous this seems to someone like me who is 81 years old?

Anyway, I showed the clerk my driver's license and either she forgot to give it back or I forgot to pick it up off the counter. It wasn't until about two weeks later that I was buying another bottle of wine and when I looked in my wallet for my driver's license, it was not there. I had no idea where it was by then. And I was not allowed to buy the wine.

After spending an entire morning at the DMV getting a replacement drivers license and upgrading it to "real ID" not to mention the additional cost and hassle of gathering up all the proof they require including renewing my passport for $130 to do this, I had a notion to check with Safeway's customer service and guess what? They had my old, now worthless driver's license. I shredded it.

[Grape Ape]

Tell me about it! A couple of months ago, I bought a bottle of wine at Safeway. Safeway requires proof of age. Can you imagine how ridiculous this seems to someone like me who is 81 years old?

Anyway, I showed the clerk my driver's license and either she forgot to give it back or I forgot to pick it up off the counter. It wasn't until about two weeks later that I was buying another bottle of wine and when I looked in my wallet for my driver's license, it was not there. I had no idea where it was by then. And I was not allowed to buy the wine.

After spending an entire morning at the DMV getting a replacement drivers license and upgrading it to "real ID" not to mention the additional cost and hassle of gathering up all the proof they require including renewing my passport for $130 to do this, I had a notion to check with Safeway's customer service and guess what? They had my old, now worthless driver's license. I shredded it.

Even in liberal Assachusetts, they don't card the obvious.  That sucks.

[AbrahamG]

[Necrosis]

What's a better solution?

Solution to what?

You guys haven't outlined an actual problem ffs. Just hopes and wishes.

but if they were actually wanting to do this have registration that phases in overtime to avoid disenfranchising folks. There is no illegal alien problem with voting so there is no reason to rush anything.

[Necrosis]

I said I believe the optics are horrible, and they were.

I believe the 2020 election was heavily influenced by the suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop story, and I believe that doing so was election interference.  I believe folks like Zuckerberg spent almost half a billion, and that the tech industry curated content to drive the results they wanted.

As for all the other nefarious stuff - Dominion, I have not given it a thought.  If a lawsuit comes through, I will watch, but I'm not going put anything into it unless it becomes tangible.

I also think you have to be a complete fool to think in a country with 300+ million, and a ridiculous amount of mail in ballots, that there was no fraud.

So, stolen in the Dominion tampering way?  I'm not there.  Influenced, and maybe impacted by big tech.  Yes.......

You're a data guy right?  Check out this site - all data driven on ephemeral content.  Listen to podcasts with the originator - he has no emotional ties to this.  Lists out, using data, which elections were influenced - tracks sites, etc.....

https://americasdigitalshield.com/

Fraud vs fraud that is impactful is a different story. With numbers this big small amounts amount to nothing

I can not recall but it appears big tech is on the side of trump currently, were they against him previously?

[chaos]

Tell me about it! A couple of months ago, I bought a bottle of wine at Safeway. Safeway requires proof of age. Can you imagine how ridiculous this seems to someone like me who is 81 years old?

Anyway, I showed the clerk my driver's license and either she forgot to give it back or I forgot to pick it up off the counter. It wasn't until about two weeks later that I was buying another bottle of wine and when I looked in my wallet for my driver's license, it was not there. I had no idea where it was by then. And I was not allowed to buy the wine.

After spending an entire morning at the DMV getting a replacement drivers license and upgrading it to "real ID" not to mention the additional cost and hassle of gathering up all the proof they require including renewing my passport for $130 to do this, I had a notion to check with Safeway's customer service and guess what? They had my old, now worthless driver's license. I shredded it.

LOL that's messed up.

[chaos]

I am for voter ID but not something which unfairly targets one segment. Because women take mens names they get to get fucked?

ID is fine- license- asking for birth certificate and passport is problematic currently, without phaseout or other means. We are talking about the SAVE act.

Women take mens names currently and somehow manage to get IDs. Have you heard of the REAL ID? Do you know how to get a real id? It's been in the works for 20 years, this isn't anything new, Trump didn't invent this, the save act didn't make this up. People have had 20 years to get their shit together and now they are being asked to show that ID to vote. Big deal. 81 year old Prime can't buy a bottle of wine without showing ID but some foreigner thinks the US asking for id to vote is some sort of violation.

 Crazy that Canadians have to prove who they are in order to vote.

[Grape Ape]

Fraud vs fraud that is impactful is a different story. With numbers this big small amounts amount to nothing

I can not recall but it appears big tech is on the side of trump currently, were they against him previously?

Amount to nothing?

It literally lists the elections swayed by Google.

And uses data to back it up.

Do you dispute it?

[chaos]

Amount to nothing?

It literally lists the elections swayed by Google.

And uses data to back it up.

Do you dispute it?

[Necrosis]

Amount to nothing?

It literally lists the elections swayed by Google.

And uses data to back it up.

Do you dispute it?

we arent talking about the same thing here at all. You have abandoned the save act and moved onto these claims

This site is insane lol did you read the paper they list in methodology?

You want them to legislate against private companies and algorithms?

Trump literally had bezos, zuckerberg and musk in his pocket. He brokered the deal with tik tok and ellison owns almost every major media going.

Musk owns twitter and zuckerberg owns facebook which are not even mentioned.

This is not unbiased and frankly its poor science. We can go into that if you like.

What does this have to do with voter ID again?


Holy fuck I dug a bit deeper this guy is a nutter. He doesn't even define what bias is and his model is not even accurate ahhahaha. He seems to hate google and ignore other avenues-- maybe yahoo countered his claims.

Yes I dispute this guys finding, jesus.

He is basing his numbers on searches made, its quite a leap of faith to assume that.

[Necrosis]

It's sad but this robert epstein fella is a bit of a clown, did you visit his site?

[Necrosis]

We know that

His “study” was not published in a peer reviewed journal. It was published by his employer; he appears to be the only researcher employed by them.


His “study” is not publicly available in total; only a summary is available. That means no one can look at his methodology.

His “study” included 7 pages of citations. All of them were either written entirely or co-written by him. Only one of them was published in a peer-reviewed journal.

His study group comprised 95 people. Only 21 of them were “undecided voters”.

He considered search results that favored outlets like the Washington Post or the New York Times over outlets like Breitbart which have a record of publishing incorrect information as evidence of bias.


Why do you guys fall for this shit? is it because it confirms your beliefs?

[chaos]

We know that

His “study” was not published in a peer reviewed journal. It was published by his employer; he appears to be the only researcher employed by them.


His “study” is not publicly available in total; only a summary is available. That means no one can look at his methodology.

His “study” included 7 pages of citations. All of them were either written entirely or co-written by him. Only one of them was published in a peer-reviewed journal.

His study group comprised 95 people. Only 21 of them were “undecided voters”.

He considered search results that favored outlets like the Washington Post or the New York Times over outlets like Breitbart which have a record of publishing incorrect information as evidence of bias.


Why do you guys fall for this shit? is it because it confirms your beliefs?

this is all heresay and nonsense. FFS.

[deadz]

Tell me about it! A couple of months ago, I bought a bottle of wine at Safeway. Safeway requires proof of age. Can you imagine how ridiculous this seems to someone like me who is 81 years old?

Anyway, I showed the clerk my driver's license and either she forgot to give it back or I forgot to pick it up off the counter. It wasn't until about two weeks later that I was buying another bottle of wine and when I looked in my wallet for my driver's license, it was not there. I had no idea where it was by then. And I was not allowed to buy the wine.

After spending an entire morning at the DMV getting a replacement drivers license and upgrading it to "real ID" not to mention the additional cost and hassle of gathering up all the proof they require including renewing my passport for $130 to do this, I had a notion to check with Safeway's customer service and guess what? They had my old, now worthless driver's license. I shredded it.

LOL

[Necrosis]

Did you look up the definition?

[Grape Ape]

we arent talking about the same thing here at all. You have abandoned the save act and moved onto these claims

This site is insane lol did you read the paper they list in methodology?

You want them to legislate against private companies and algorithms?

Trump literally had bezos, zuckerberg and musk in his pocket. He brokered the deal with tik tok and ellison owns almost every major media going.

Musk owns twitter and zuckerberg owns facebook which are not even mentioned.

This is not unbiased and frankly its poor science. We can go into that if you like.

What does this have to do with voter ID again?


Holy fuck I dug a bit deeper this guy is a nutter. He doesn't even define what bias is and his model is not even accurate ahhahaha. He seems to hate google and ignore other avenues-- maybe yahoo countered his claims.

Yes I dispute this guys finding, jesus.

He is basing his numbers on searches made, its quite a leap of faith to assume that.

I abandoned the Save Act because there's nothing left to discuss - I support it, want to make obtaining the IDs easy (there are provisions for name changes), give folks time off to vote, and only allow mail ins for handicapped and those outside the US.

I don't believe the fallacy of the passionate voter who wants to vote but can't get an ID.

That's it.

And I know the method of americasdigitalshield - he has access to folks computers and can see what they're fed.  Simply put, it's the digital equivalent of looking over someone's shoulder as they type.....times thousands and thousands of users.

But, right after I posted,  I told chaos, when pressed, you would attack the founder of the data.  Disappointing.

Anyway you believe all the "data" around the election that supports your bias, without likely researching any of it's sources.

But you dismiss this guy instantly:

He is a senior research psychologist at the American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology (AIBRT) and a former editor-in-chief of Psychology Today. Dr. Epstein is known for his research on internet influence, including the Search Engine Manipulation Effect (SEME) and the Video Manipulation Effect (VME), and he launched America's Digital Shield to monitor and combat what he describes as "existential threats" posed by Big Tech monopolies.

Sure ok.

[chaos]

Did you look up the definition?

I did, Merriam-webster has a link to your posts.

[chaos]

I abandoned the Save Act because there's nothing left to discuss - I support it, want to make obtaining the IDs easy (there are provisions for name changes), give folks time off to vote, and only allow mail ins for handicapped and those outside the US.

I don't believe the fallacy of the passionate voter who wants to vote but can't get an ID.

That's it.

And I know the method of americasdigitalshield - he has access to folks computers and can see what they're fed.  Simply put, it's the digital equivalent of looking over someone's shoulder as they type.....times thousands and thousands of users.

But, right after I posted,  I told chaos, when pressed, you would attack the founder of the data.  Disappointing.

Anyway you believe all the "data" around the election that supports your bias, without likely researching any of it's sources.

But you dismiss this guy instantly:

Sure ok.

He's the typical liberal, claims he's open minded and willing to debate but he's full of shit. Douchebag will post any article/story/vlog he can that is anti Trump and tout it up proudly while asking for a double blind peer reviewed research paper for something that shows he's wrong. LOL he's about as useless as Lurkingforboys.

[Necrosis]

Women take mens names currently and somehow manage to get IDs. Have you heard of the REAL ID? Do you know how to get a real id? It's been in the works for 20 years, this isn't anything new, Trump didn't invent this, the save act didn't make this up. People have had 20 years to get their shit together and now they are being asked to show that ID to vote. Big deal. 81 year old Prime can't buy a bottle of wine without showing ID but some foreigner thinks the US asking for id to vote is some sort of violation.

 Crazy that Canadians have to prove who they are in order to vote.

We are talking about the save act though. I realize this seems to be lost on you guys. They require a birth certificate to match your current name.

So your point is superfluous.

You aren't even arguing about what I am talking about and making up some point about ID's that have zero to do with this situation.

Do I think women should have to go change their fucking birth certificate or buy a passport to vote, no, thats retarded. An ID is fine, we agree. great.

There is no reason to force anyone to do more, there is no issue with illegal aliens voting. Say it with me, the bill is retarded and aimed at securing votes.

[Grape Ape]

We are talking about the save act though. I realize this seems to be lost on you guys. They require a birth certificate to match your current name.

So your point is superfluous.

You aren't even arguing about what I am talking about and making up some point about ID's that have zero to do with this situation.

Do I think women should have to go change their fucking birth certificate or buy a passport to vote, no, thats retarded. An ID is fine, we agree. great.

There is no reason to force anyone to do more, there is no issue with illegal aliens voting. Say it with me, the bill is retarded and aimed at securing votes.

Again:

The bill includes provisions for states to establish processes for handling name mismatches, potentially accepting additional "bridge" documents like a marriage certificate, court-ordered name change decree, or similar to connect the birth certificate to the current name.

[chaos]

We are talking about the save act though. I realize this seems to be lost on you guys. They require a birth certificate to match your current name.

So your point is superfluous.

You aren't even arguing about what I am talking about and making up some point about ID's that have zero to do with this situation.

Do I think women should have to go change their fucking birth certificate or buy a passport to vote, no, thats retarded. An ID is fine, we agree. great.

There is no reason to force anyone to do more, there is no issue with illegal aliens voting. Say it with me, the bill is retarded and aimed at securing votes.

Ok, pull your balls back out of your throat. Can you link us to where you claim the save act says you must have a birth certificate that matches your ID?

[Necrosis]

I abandoned the Save Act because there's nothing left to discuss - I support it, want to make obtaining the IDs easy (there are provisions for name changes), give folks time off to vote, and only allow mail ins for handicapped and those outside the US.

I don't believe the fallacy of the passionate voter who wants to vote but can't get an ID.

That's it.

And I know the method of americasdigitalshield - he has access to folks computers and can see what they're fed.  Simply put, it's the digital equivalent of looking over someone's shoulder as they type.....times thousands and thousands of users.

But, right after I posted,  I told chaos, when pressed, you would attack the founder of the data.  Disappointing.

Anyway you believe all the "data" around the election that supports your bias, without likely researching any of it's sources.

But you dismiss this guy instantly:

Sure ok.

The method is not methodologically sound. It's obvious we won't agree. What provisions are you referencing?

I don't believe data that supports my conclusions. I support third party respected institutes with a history of being objective to vet the data and publish it using peer reviewed support and proper citations. This guy is almost solely citing himself.

Does that seem odd to you? The data pool is comically low

He has posted "studies" on covid 19 , consciousness, relationships, tech etc.. its sillly


I see you skimmed over my claims about his paper only to hone in on what you perceive to be ad hominem attacks, do you not see your bias here? You claimed to chaos that I would attack the author (rightfully so) but ignored my points about the paper. Explain why that is?

Perhaps you can't? perhaps you want to believe this as it fits with your worldview.

[chaos]

The method is not methodologically sound. It's obvious we won't agree. What provisions are you referencing?

I don't believe data that supports my conclusions. I support third party respected institutes with a history of being objective to vet the data and publish it using peer reviewed support and proper citations. This guy is almost solely citing himself.

Does that seem odd to you? The data pool is comically low

He has posted "studies" on covid 19 , consciousness, relationships, tech etc.. its sillly


I see you skimmed over my claims about his paper only to hone in on what you perceive to be ad hominem attacks, do you not see your bias here? You claimed to chaos that I would attack the author (rightfully so) but ignored my points about the paper. Explain why that is?

Perhaps you can't? perhaps you want to believe this as it fits with your worldview.

I can help

this is all heresay and nonsense. FFS.