Oldtimer1

[oldtimer1]

Trained legs today.  The strange thing was I forgot to do leg extensions. Did my squats, hacks, stiff dead, kick back machine, leg curls, standing calf, seated calf, abs and neck.

After the workout I had to drive an hour to take care of some administrative stuff with my ex job. Went to what might be the best deli in the state of NJ. Looks like the Italian mob owns the place.  Insane the stuff they have in there. Came home and cleaned the pool. Suddenly it hit me. I didn't do leg extensions. I went into my basement gym. Warmed up with a set then did two hard sets.  My knees are hurting slightly. I really wonder if leg extensions are bad for your knees? Had no knee complaints after my leg workout. After doing leg extensions my knees were aching.  For many years they used that movement for rehab but many are of the opinion it's a bad movement for knee health now.

[IroNat]

Trained legs today.  The strange thing was I forgot to do leg extensions. Did my squats, hacks, stiff dead, kick back machine, leg curls, standing calf, seated calf, abs and neck.

After the workout I had to drive an hour to take care of some administrative stuff with my ex job. Went to what might be the best deli in the state of NJ. Looks like the Italian mob owns the place.  Insane the stuff they have in there. Came home and cleaned the pool. Suddenly it hit me. I didn't do leg extensions. I went into my basement gym. Warmed up with a set then did two hard sets.  My knees are hurting slightly. I really wonder if leg extensions are bad for your knees? Had no knee complaints after my leg workout. After doing leg extensions my knees were aching.  For many years they used that movement for rehab but many are of the opinion it's a bad movement for knee health now.

I think if your knees are healthy you can do them.  I used to do them all the time when I was younger without a problem

If you've had knee problems in the past then they could be irritating.  

Going too heavy on them is probably not wise.  Keeps reps high around 20 or higher.  

You probably should have skipped them since you had already trained earlier.  You had cooled off and had already fatigued your legs.

Leg extension type exercises are a staple in knee rehab.

The straight leg raise below is a form of leg extension.

[oldtimer1]

Did 6 x half miles. Fastest in 7:30 mile pace or 8 MPH.  Hit the bag after.

Below is both pro and con leg extension for knee health.

https://www.t-nation.com/training/truth-about-leg-extensions

https://www.stack.com/a/never-do-leg-extensions

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/leg-extensions-knee-pain_b_3269330

https://human-movement.com/is-the-leg-extension-machine-bad-for-your-knees/

https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a28008112/leg-extensions/

[Primemuscle]

With leg extensions, I believe using too much resistance can be problematical. When I was in physical therapy following knee surgery, the therapist discouraged doing extensions. This was interesting since the doctor prescribed leg extensions with no added resistance the second week following the surgery. The therapist had me doing very light leg presses, one leg at a time. It has been years since the meniscus surgery and my knees are fine. I do leg extensions on a regular basis. I believe it is best to do them when you are warmed up.

[IroNat]

Leg extensions along with behind neck presses are on the "no-no" list nowadays.

However, many did them with no problems in the past.

I guess you have to try them out for yourself.  Best to use light weights at first.

[oldtimer1]

Leg extensions along with behind neck presses are on the "no-no" list nowadays.

However, many did them with no problems in the past.

I guess you have to try them out for yourself.  Best to use light weights at first.

True, I did press behind the neck for many decades with zero problems. Now I can't do them without pain. I think it has to do with shoulder flexibility. The bench is a mobility destroyer.  If you have tight shoulders doing something like the press behind the neck is asking for a tear.

[oldtimer1]

Trained delts and arms today.  One observation. Very few appear to be lifting. Most come to chat. Two young guys must have talked 10 minutes between sets.  I'm on my third exercise and they are going on their second set. So many people go to the gym to bull shit. I thought it was only the old guys. They go to have some kind of a social life. Besides hi and bye my conversations with people are very short. Today I broke my standard method of operation by chatting with a guy doing deadlifts. Talked about the positives and the negatives of the double over grip with hook grip vs the standard alternate grip for deads. That conversation turned into the benefits of the power clean over the deadlift. Suddenly I found myself to be a yanking Nancy and got back to the solitude of the work of the workout.

[IroNat]

It's always been the same at any gym I've been to.

The gym is a social place for many people.

Training is hard work and who wants to do that?

Do a few sets of curls, flex the arms and head over to the juice bar...

[Primemuscle]

It's always been the same at any gym I've been to.

The gym is a social place for many people.

Training is hard work and who wants to do that?

Do a few sets of curls, flex the arms and head over to the juice bar...

I care less whether other folks are at the gym to socialize, except when they monopolize equipment I'm waiting to use.

[oldtimer1]

I care less whether other folks are at the gym to socialize, except when they monopolize equipment I'm waiting to use.

Not a question of caring but an observation for me. Yes, I do care when they talk endlessly when I want to go on to my next set.  I sometimes cut them off saying I have to get to my next set.  I know one guy took offense and he doesn't chat with me anymore. I take my workouts seriously and I have work to do.  I remember one guy telling me I was out of shape because I was breathing so hard and my shirt was drenched. He never gets out of breath and his shirt is dry. He doesn't break a sweat working out because he is not exerting himself.  

Anyway, there are so many things to observe with human nature. Don't get me going on the locker room situation. Let's just say I might go in there once a year. I avoid it. One convict was screaming at a guy in the gym with plenty of threats of violence. The gym owner got between them. At one point I thought the convict was going to hit him with a plate.  The other guy left the gym and the convict remained. I call him convict because of his criminal convictions both old and recent.  Nice guy to talk with. I asked him what the hell was that about. He said the guy dropped his pants playing with his cock staring at him.  I started laughing and he seemed to let his temper go. I guess the guy was looking for a "date" thought if he's in the locker room he's there looking for sex too. Anyway soon after; maybe a month, the convict's house was raided with a swat team. The rumor was he was dealing drugs. I don't know if they were recreational, steroids or both.

So many observations in the gym.  It's like going to the zoo.  One guy looks like a real gargoyle. He's old and hunched over. The poor guy can barely walk. He shows up at the gym with this knock out blonde. She always has her hair done and make up on with lip stick to work out. I don't know if she is flirting with me or she is  really friendly.  I guess it's the cynic in me that I can't give her the benefit of the doubt that she is just a friendly person. Shame on me. Never seen a more mismatched couple. I know it makes me sound like a scum bag for observing this. If they are happy who am I to comment but I can't help it.  

I find it really odd the women who just use the cardio equipment. I see the same women time after time go on a treadmill, elliptical, or bikes that rarely if ever use the weights.  Why join a gym for that?  Buy a treadmill and stay home if you don't want to run outside. Different strokes for different folks. ...and so on and so on and scooby scooby do on.  Sly and the Family Stone for you younger guys.

I should stick to my basement gym.  Then I can only be critical of myself.    

 

[IroNat]

You can't help but make observations.

There's some wacky peeps out there.

Just think of all these wacky people driving cars around? 

Kind of dangerous.

[Primemuscle]

Not a question of caring but an observation for me. Yes, I do care when they talk endlessly when I want to go on to my next set.  I sometimes cut them off saying I have to get to my next set.  I know one guy took offense and he doesn't chat with me anymore. I take my workouts seriously and I have work to do.  I remember one guy telling me I was out of shape because I was breathing so hard and my shirt was drenched. He never gets out of breath and his shirt is dry. He doesn't break a sweat working out because he is not exerting himself.  

Anyway, there are so many things to observe with human nature. Don't get me going on the locker room situation. Let's just say I might go in there once a year. I avoid it. One convict was screaming at a guy in the gym with plenty of threats of violence. The gym owner got between them. At one point I thought the convict was going to hit him with a plate.  The other guy left the gym and the convict remained. I call him convict because of his criminal convictions both old and recent.  Nice guy to talk with. I asked him what the hell was that about. He said the guy dropped his pants playing with his cock staring at him.  I started laughing and he seemed to let his temper go. I guess the guy was looking for a "date" thought if he's in the locker room he's there looking for sex too. Anyway soon after; maybe a month, the convict's house was raided with a swat team. The rumor was he was dealing drugs. I don't know if they were recreational, steroids or both.

So many observations in the gym.  It's like going to the zoo.  One guy looks like a real gargoyle. He's old and hunched over. The poor guy can barely walk. He shows up at the gym with this knock out blonde. She always has her hair done and make up on with lip stick to work out. I don't know if she is flirting with me or she is  really friendly.  I guess it's the cynic in me that I can't give her the benefit of the doubt that she is just a friendly person. Shame on me. Never seen a more mismatched couple. I know it makes me sound like a scum bag for observing this. If they are happy who am I to comment but I can't help it.  

I find it really odd the women who just use the cardio equipment. I see the same women time after time go on a treadmill, elliptical, or bikes that rarely if ever use the weights.  Why join a gym for that?  Buy a treadmill and stay home if you don't want to run outside. Different strokes for different folks. ...and so on and so on and scooby scooby do on.  Sly and the Family Stone for you younger guys.

I should stick to my basement gym.  Then I can only be critical of myself.    

 

Well, having only yourself to criticize might get really boring and it would be such a downer. However, if I had a basement, I'd have a gym in it. Sometimes, (more lately) I like staying home. Minus any equipment to speak of, my home workouts are limited.

I'm surprised you only use the locker room once a year. If you get as sweaty as you suggest, isn't it uncomfortable leaving the gym in wet clothes? What do you do in the winter? It's probably not the best idea to go out in freezing temperatures wearing wet, sweaty gym clothes and no jacket.

The most shocking thing I think I've seen in a gym locker room was about a year ago and these two fellows were kissing at the local 24 Hour Fitness club near where I live.  Although it was only a brief, sweet kiss,  there were other dudes around...either a brave or stupid thing to do. Nobody said anything, but they surely saw them. -Hard not to miss. Seen them since, but not kissing.

At a different gym, there was this biker looking older fellow standing around naked in the locker room who had so much cock jewelry on that it was hard not to notice. He was not only wearing several cock rings, his dick head was pierced and he was wearing a large thick ring through that hole. He also had a lot of tattoos. He seemed in no hurry to put some clothes on.

It would be a bit weird to get hit on in the locker room. I'd very likely ignore the person and get out of there as quickly as possible. I don't think I'd say anything to them. I definitely wouldn't make a scene like the convict did.

[oldtimer1]

Well, having only yourself to criticize might get really boring and it would be such a downer. However, if I had a basement, I'd have a gym in it. Sometimes, (more lately) I like staying home. Minus any equipment to speak of, my home workouts are limited.

I'm surprised you only use the locker room once a year. If you get as sweaty as you suggest, isn't it uncomfortable leaving the gym in wet clothes? What do you do in the winter? It's probably not the best idea to go out in freezing temperatures wearing wet, sweaty gym clothes and no jacket.

The most shocking thing I think I've seen in a gym locker room was about a year ago and these two fellows were kissing at the local 24 Hour Fitness club near where I live.  Although it was only a brief, sweet kiss,  there were other dudes around...either a brave or stupid thing to do. Nobody said anything, but they surely saw them. -Hard not to miss. Seen them since, but not kissing.

At a different gym, there was this biker looking older fellow standing around naked in the locker room who had so much cock jewelry on that it was hard not to notice. He was not only wearing several cock rings, his dick head was pierced and he was wearing a large thick ring through that hole. He also had a lot of tattoos. He seemed in no hurry to put some clothes on.

It would be a bit weird to get hit on in the locker room. I'd very likely ignore the person and get out of there as quickly as possible. I don't think I'd say anything to them. I definitely wouldn't make a scene like the convict did.

I go in work out clothes and leave in workout clothes like 95% of this gym does. Same when I drive to a location like a park or the boardwalk to run.  I keep a towel to sit on in my car. So you bring a change of clothes and shower in the gym?  I only did that when I worked out during work hours. Since I retired and work a part time retirement job that isn't the case.

[Primemuscle]

I go in work out clothes and leave in workout clothes like 95% of this gym does. Same when I drive to a location like a park or the boardwalk to run.  I keep a towel to sit on in my car. So you bring a change of clothes and shower in the gym?  I only did that when I worked out during work hours. Since I retired and work a part time retirement job that isn't the case.

Yeah well, I don't like wearing workout clothes outside the gym. I have an old gym bag my wife bought me loaded with workout clothes, including gloves and shoes. All of the gyms I go to have pools, so I keep swimwear in the bag too. There is also a towel for those times I'm either at a gym that doesn't provide them or I forget to take one from the front desk. Whenever I go to the gym, I change into suitable clothing and lock my stuff in a locker. Occasionally, when I use the sauna, steam room or pool, I'll shower before getting dressed. Obviously time isn't an issue, since I am retired and pretty much have all the time I need to make my workouts as comfortable as possible.

[oldtimer1]

Yeah well, I don't like wearing workout clothes outside the gym. I have an old gym bag my wife bought me loaded with workout clothes, including gloves and shoes. All of the gyms I go to have pools, so I keep swimwear in the bag too. There is also a towel for those times I'm either at a gym that doesn't provide them or I forget to take one from the front desk. Whenever I go to the gym, I change into suitable clothing and lock my stuff in a locker. Occasionally, when I use the sauna, steam room or pool, I'll shower before getting dressed. Obviously time isn't an issue, since I am retired and pretty much have all the time I need to make my workouts as comfortable as possible.

Just be aware that gym lockers are a big target for theft. 95% of all padlocks and be opened in seconds if you know what you are doing. My daughter had cash taken out of her wallet when she was in high school and the lock was closed when she returned to her locker in high school. My son showed her how easy it is to open a padlock and she never kept valuables in her locker again. The tool used to open the lock is very tiny and concealable. Takes seconds.

[oldtimer1]

Trained back and chest. I really have to get serious about diet. Don't get me wrong. I'm not fat. Just not where I want to be. Damn I love beer in the sun floating in a pool with Big band music.

[IroNat]

Trained back and chest. I really have to get serious about diet. Don't get me wrong. I'm not fat. Just not where I want to be. Damn I love beer in the sun floating in a pool with Big band music.

Well, if you're not fat don't worry about it.

Do you think you are too heavy and it is endangering your health?

[oldtimer1]

Well, if you're not fat don't worry about it.

Do you think you are too heavy and it is endangering your health?

I would like to be very lean.  Most guys that think they are normal are carrying over 20% fat.  A 190lbs guy with 20% would look great for a normal guy but not an athlete. Most of the public would say he's in shape.  190lbs with 20% is carrying 38lbs of visceral and subcutaneous fat with 152lbs lean. Now if he got down to 10% fat that would make most men looked ripped. Maybe not in the steroid cosmetic definition but amazing looking for a natural guy lifting weight. At ten percent he would carry 19lbs of fat and would 171lbs lean if he still weighed 190lbs.  I know it's impossible to lose a lot of fat and not lose muscle if you're a natural. Just trying to make a point about being lean. Quite a difference in how the two would look. In terms of health yes leaner is better unless you go to Clarence Bass extremes.

[IroNat]

I was thinking about this.  If it was me, I wouldn't drop all that weight (unless you are fat) because you will lose muscle and when you get to our age you want to hang on to as much muscle as you can. Sarcopenia is around the corner for us.  It gets harder and harder to build new muscle and we are going to get weaker and weaker.  So I wouldn't do it.

But, if that's your goal you need to eat less calories and drop a lot of weight.

I weigh 216 at 6'2".  Not lean by any stretch.  Probably 18-20% bf.

I've gotten down to 190 and I don't feel good that light.  I feel scrawny.  I'd have to be 190 to get real low bodyfat %.

You'd have to go to 160-170.  

That's a BMR of around 1500-1600 cal/day so you'd be limited to eating maybe 2,000 cals a day to stay there including your extra cal burn from exercising.

I figured you're 5'9" and 60 years old.  

You can figure it yourself for more accuracy.  It's just cals in/cals out.

You're in really good shape so maybe you don't have to lose that much weight.

You should figure out your bodyfat %.  Get some calipers and do a multiple skinfold measurement with them.  You can look up how to do it.  Calipers are cheap.

You have to count calories everyday until you get it worked out.  

If that's what you really want then that's how you do it.  

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/#result

[oldtimer1]

Calipers are inaccurate in my opinion. I was trained how to use them years ago on my job. They came up with the calculations using so called hydrostatic weighing as the standard. One thing is for sure you have to be experience in how to use them and secondary problem is that people carry fat in different areas. I'm guessing they didn't use a large pool of people when they came up with the calculations and then comparing them to the hydrostatic under water weighing result. No matter how out of shape I am my tricep skin thickness is paper thin. While my chest always carries fat.  Same with my thigh. Really thin fat pinch.  One notoriously bad fat testers are those electronic gadgets. Some even come with a disclaimer that it's inaccurate with athletes with low body fat. I paid for one that cost me a nice buck. I could get one reading and an hour later get a different reading but it always displayed it down to the tenth but it could give a different reading of 2 percent.

I guess what I'm trying to convey in my convoluted thoughts on fat measurement is that underwater weighing is the gold standard.  Fat floats and muscle sinks. They got the calculations down on that method on target. The best way for most people is to look in the mirror or with a picture. It doesn't lie unless you're delusional on how you really look. I weigh close to 190lbs at 5'8" or 5'8"and a half.   I would be in much better shape and leaness at 175lbs. Damn beer and cocktails.

Today was 6 x half miles.  Went down to 8.0 MPH or a 7:30 mile on the last one.  I was hurting going to work. I guess my old body stiffens up driving to work after that and I got out of the car limping.   I felt good after walking around at work. Hit the bag after the run as is my stadard operating procedure and surprised myself how hard I was hitting. Thought the run took all my power away because I was exhausted.

[IroNat]

Calipers are quite accurate if you use them correctly and do multiple skinfold measurements but if you don't mind paying for a water test go for it.

I just thought it would be useful to know where you are currently before you decide to make changes.

[oldtimer1]

I disagree. You can have two different people using calipers and come up with a different fat percentage readings.  It's all about the pressure of the pinch. Even those that have a clicker to tell you when you reached the ideal level of pressure on the pinch it can give you different readings. How is it accurate when one person takes multiple pinch areas then another does the same while coming up with different fat percentages? Did the person being evaluated gain or lose fat in a minute?

[oldtimer1]

Trained legs today.  Lightened the calf machine weight used to achieve a more precise exercise performance. Coming to believe that extreme range of motions with the Achilles isn't a safe method concerning calf training.  Maybe that only applies to me.  Powering out of an extreme negative range just takes the spring out of my sprint instead of contributing to it. Remember reading about Charlie Francis who was Ben Johnson sprinting coach. He had him do no calf work in the weight room. He said in effect that sprinting took care of that. He felt and I hope I'm not putting words in his mouth but sprinting is achieved by essentially jumping forward from a powerful extension from the hip and thigh muscles.  He concentrated on power cleans, bench and squats as the primary exercises used to increase his sprinting power. I know about the steroids. You don't have to mention it.  

[IroNat]

This is the fat caliper I have.  It's very inexpensive.

It's impossible to vary the pressure of the pinch because it has a release that clicks when you do it.

[oldtimer1]

Ran a mile today. Just a slug run in the 8 minute range.

Thinking about ending this log. It really serves no purpose.