Author Topic: back shot taken for my boy esf  (Read 16404 times)

dj181

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2018, 07:21:49 AM »
Gear doses are to a point dependant on your LBM.  2g is too much for me, let alone you.

Its all about the sweet spot, theres a window of effectiveness that maxes out with side effects, selecting the right point in this range is key.

I read alot where many diff sources say that drol has a distinct cut off point, which is 150 or even 100 mg, i will have to check up on that again

Also had private convo's with vanb about is and he agreed with the cutoff hypothesis

Anyways what would you put my deca cutoff at? I weigh all of a buck 70

Now i will rum deca at 400

dj181

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2018, 07:23:48 AM »
What ever happened to chins,rows, deadlifts you don't need all that pseudo science pulldown bullshit. It been proven time and time again you can even do with out the deadlifts but why

Rows and deads, thanks but no thanks

Im that natty pic neither posted i was doing weighted wide grip chins with 50 ponds round my waist for 6-8 reps 😎

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2018, 08:40:16 AM »
I read alot where many diff sources say that drol has a distinct cut off point, which is 150 or even 100 mg, i will have to check up on that again

Also had private convo's with vanb about is and he agreed with the cutoff hypothesis

Anyways what would you put my deca cutoff at? I weigh all of a buck 70

Now i will rum deca at 400

It is true of Oxy indeed, good example. 50-100mg is great for me, 150mg will cause me to lose size due to sides.

I'm not a fan of Deca - but for yourself 4-800mg range is plenty,,,you will still see results and save some gear.

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2018, 08:54:23 AM »
Nope zero test

Hate test with a passion

Others say its need, well.. FUCK OTHERS

Not test, what ester is the masteron?

wes

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2018, 09:19:53 AM »
Girls and sons............Well, it looks like as you said you don't train back aside from some wide grip pull-downs.

(as you probably noticed by now, when I talk to Mr. DJ, I don't "troll him" [or anyone else for that matter.. I'm an adult. I don't 'troll'] or talk shit about him like most do so this critique isn't with ill-will)

There's a minimal amount of what appears to be latissimus dorsi development, but aside from that there's not a whole lot of development anywhere else. The traps and rhomboids in particular are lacking a great deal. So starting out I would likely advise to focus on those areas because they would have the greatest immediate visual impact on the physique.

Secondly almost all of equal importance is the lack of development of the teres minor muscle group. Most people on The View a back that is well-developed they mistake the teres minor muscle group for lats imposes such as the standing relaxed from the back obviously, and back double biceps poses. Most people think pull-downs to the front, especially wide grip, emphasize lat development, however the prime-movers in that movement are the teres muscles.

To focus on latissimus dorsi development, the elbows need to be in front of the body and pulling the elbows down towards the waist. For example; movements such as reverse grip pull-downs with elbows in front of the body pulling down towards the waist. It's a misconception that rows are a "lat" movement. The prime movers in rows are actually the rhomboids, which squeeze the scapula back together. The lats are involved, especially when the elbows/upper arms are kept close to the torso, but prime movers are still rhomboids.

You can emphasize the rhomboids even further, you 10 fleur de lis elbows out more so the upper arm is more perpendicular to the Torso.

My recommendation;

Add one Training Day that focuses entirely on back movements. And have a day off completely the next day to give the back muscles an entire day's worth of nutrients all to itself. (I also follow/advise this schedule to clients for leg-days. I want the all available nutrients to go towards repairing damaged fibers the following day).

Workout  8 to 10 rep range 8 to 10 rep range begins with focusing on movements with the elbows in front of the body.   --

Such as close-grip pull-downs with a reverse-grip. One or two warm up sets, followed by two or three working sets In the 8 to 10 rep range. Ideally with a straight bar... Can possibly use a v-handle, but rather you use the str8.

Follow that with seated cable rows either with a v-handle, or again a str8 bar with a reverse-grip. This one you can use a little bit wider grip medium width , about the width of your shoulders or maybe half a hand with narrower. Should only need one warm-up set on these just to get the feel, followed by two or three working sets also in the 8 to 10 rep range.

*I also prefer using a one-armed lever-machine vertical row. Hammer Strength makes a great one. There are plenty of images of Dorian using one. I'm not sure exactly what it's called, but the handles are verticle. There are also some machines that have a selected weight stack instead of being plate loaded. I prefer to have the seat height as high as it goes, & gripping the very top of the handle. Use 1 arm at a time, getting a full stretch and finishing the contraction while twisting the torso back slightly (maybe a 15° twist back and pulling the shoulder 'down' about 2")

*!!* -- I should remind you that during all back movements it is imperative that you keep your back arched and chest up. Failure to maintain an arch in your back will result in the movements becoming a bicep and brach movement. Think of your arms as "hooks" that are only there 2 latch onto the weight and allow the back muscles to pull -- *!!*

After that, you can move on to movements to focus on the actual upper back muscles truly create a visually impressive back (*the muscles that most people mistake for "lats")... the teres minor muscle group specifically.

Pull-downs to the front with an overhand grip, about medium with. Personally in my experience, a medium grip produces better results then a wide grip. Should only need one warm-up set to get the feel of the movement don't need a high rep set 8 or 10 reps should be sufficient, followed by two, maybe three working sets of 8 or 10 reps.

Back to seated cable rows. This time we're going to move the elbows more out to the side at about 45 degrees or higher in relation to the Torso. Using a straight bar also going to go with the wider grip, wider than shoulder width. We're also going to pull the bar up towards the sternum or nipples. Shouldn't need a warm-up set with these, we're also going to go with a little bit higher rep range because amount of weight is going to be a little bit lower. Going to do two sets of about 12 to 15 reps.
  *Also note; you will likely not be able to pull the bar all the way to the chest because of the angle of the movement. It's fine if the bar stops for 5 or so inches in front of your chest at full contraction. Following those two sets we're going to go with and even wider grip, same rep range 12 to 15 for one set.

Going to finish off the back portion of the workout with straight arm pull-downs with the high cable. 3 sets of 15-20.

Finnish up with barbell power-shrugs in a power-rack. Go as heavy as you can. Pulling the bar off the pins so it's almost like an 8" rest-pause deadlift. 4-5sets of 12-15 reps, setting the bar graph down on the pens after each rep taking a breath and resetting your grip with each rep.

You can also finish off traps after that if you like with a set maybe two of dumbbell shrugs a little bit lighter, while bending your torso forward a little bit not quite to 70 degrees, and shrugging up. This will involve the rhomboids a little bit more.

*can't seem to get pics of anatomy chart of back muscles to post???

dj181

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2018, 09:57:20 AM »
Not test, what ester is the masteron?

Mast e

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2018, 12:27:30 PM »
Sorry good to know

I have run deca up to 2 grams but don't think it gave me much more than 600 mg
0
All gear has an optimal dose i am a firm believer in this, for example max dose of drol is 150 and after that the sides increase much more than the gains /benefits in fact ideal drol dose may be 100 mg

Need vanb to chime on here

I've played a lot with orals, too much in fact. I felt Dbol maxed out at 50-60mg. Drol I've done up to 250mg but only for a few days since it gets expensive and you run out too quick  :D But I think you get most of the potential effects at 100mg. Many say they can't eat on it and feel sick in general but I tolerate it real well. I know tommywishbone said no one ever took 10 tabs a day despite what they claim but I would try it if someone sponsored me, just to see what would happen. :D

There was a study on the elderly where 150mg didn't caused more lbm gains than 100mg. Or maybe it was 100mg vs 50mg - too lazy to look for it now.

ESFitness

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #57 on: January 11, 2018, 12:56:51 PM »
What if you truly don’t give a fuck about what women think or do?then does having a nice ass matter?

I dunno... Only reason I train ass is because I found out my (former) training partner/ gf (the Bulgarian fitness model) had a some 60 your old lady client who would ask my her (training partner, also a trainer) when I would be with aN hour-long client or bootcamp, and schedule her sessions at that same time so she could have my training partner follow me around the gym so the old lady could stare at my ass for an hour... Up till then I hadn't put much priority on glute training, & despite being an off&on dancer and having my ass squeezed  bitten but plenty of  girls and girlfriends, I didn't think of it too much as a money maker. LOL that old lady changed my outlook

ESFitness

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2018, 01:03:55 PM »
I read alot where many diff sources say that drol has a distinct cut off point, which is 150 or even 100 mg, i will have to check up on that again

Also had private convo's with vanb about is and he agreed with the cutoff hypothesis

Anyways what would you put my deca cutoff at? I weigh all of a buck 70

Now i will rum deca at 400

60-80lb children are prescribed 300-450mg/day anadrol for anemia. I'm pretty sure bodybuilders in fairly good health can handle more than 150mg.

Personally I like 200-250mg/day, and there are plenty reports of well-known pros using 4-8tabs per day.

I recall a Dan Duchaine interview in Pump magazine where he talks about some anabolic having activity outside the AR,& anadrol being one of them. (Receding to anadrols relative poor Androgen receptor affinity)

ESFitness

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2018, 01:06:18 PM »
Girls and sons............Well, it looks like as you said you don't train back aside from some wide grip pull-downs.

(as you probably noticed by now, when I talk to Mr. DJ, I don't "troll him" [or anyone else for that matter.. I'm an adult. I don't 'troll'] or talk shit about him like most do so this critique isn't with ill-will)

There's a minimal amount of what appears to be latissimus dorsi development, but aside from that there's not a whole lot of development anywhere else. The traps and rhomboids in particular are lacking a great deal. So starting out I would likely advise to focus on those areas because they would have the greatest immediate visual impact on the physique.

Secondly almost all of equal importance is the lack of development of the teres minor muscle group. Most people on The View a back that is well-developed they mistake the teres minor muscle group for lats imposes such as the standing relaxed from the back obviously, and back double biceps poses. Most people think pull-downs to the front, especially wide grip, emphasize lat development, however the prime-movers in that movement are the teres muscles.

To focus on latissimus dorsi development, the elbows need to be in front of the body and pulling the elbows down towards the waist. For example; movements such as reverse grip pull-downs with elbows in front of the body pulling down towards the waist. It's a misconception that rows are a "lat" movement. The prime movers in rows are actually the rhomboids, which squeeze the scapula back together. The lats are involved, especially when the elbows/upper arms are kept close to the torso, but prime movers are still rhomboids.

You can emphasize the rhomboids even further, you 10 fleur de lis elbows out more so the upper arm is more perpendicular to the Torso.

My recommendation;

Add one Training Day that focuses entirely on back movements. And have a day off completely the next day to give the back muscles an entire day's worth of nutrients all to itself. (I also follow/advise this schedule to clients for leg-days. I want the all available nutrients to go towards repairing damaged fibers the following day).

Workout  8 to 10 rep range 8 to 10 rep range begins with focusing on movements with the elbows in front of the body.   --

Such as close-grip pull-downs with a reverse-grip. One or two warm up sets, followed by two or three working sets In the 8 to 10 rep range. Ideally with a straight bar... Can possibly use a v-handle, but rather you use the str8.

Follow that with seated cable rows either with a v-handle, or again a str8 bar with a reverse-grip. This one you can use a little bit wider grip medium width , about the width of your shoulders or maybe half a hand with narrower. Should only need one warm-up set on these just to get the feel, followed by two or three working sets also in the 8 to 10 rep range.

*I also prefer using a one-armed lever-machine vertical row. Hammer Strength makes a great one. There are plenty of images of Dorian using one. I'm not sure exactly what it's called, but the handles are verticle. There are also some machines that have a selected weight stack instead of being plate loaded. I prefer to have the seat height as high as it goes, & gripping the very top of the handle. Use 1 arm at a time, getting a full stretch and finishing the contraction while twisting the torso back slightly (maybe a 15° twist back and pulling the shoulder 'down' about 2")

*!!* -- I should remind you that during all back movements it is imperative that you keep your back arched and chest up. Failure to maintain an arch in your back will result in the movements becoming a bicep and brach movement. Think of your arms as "hooks" that are only there 2 latch onto the weight and allow the back muscles to pull -- *!!*

After that, you can move on to movements to focus on the actual upper back muscles truly create a visually impressive back (*the muscles that most people mistake for "lats")... the teres minor muscle group specifically.

Pull-downs to the front with an overhand grip, about medium with. Personally in my experience, a medium grip produces better results then a wide grip. Should only need one warm-up set to get the feel of the movement don't need a high rep set 8 or 10 reps should be sufficient, followed by two, maybe three working sets of 8 or 10 reps.

Back to seated cable rows. This time we're going to move the elbows more out to the side at about 45 degrees or higher in relation to the Torso. Using a straight bar also going to go with the wider grip, wider than shoulder width. We're also going to pull the bar up towards the sternum or nipples. Shouldn't need a warm-up set with these, we're also going to go with a little bit higher rep range because amount of weight is going to be a little bit lower. Going to do two sets of about 12 to 15 reps.
  *Also note; you will likely not be able to pull the bar all the way to the chest because of the angle of the movement. It's fine if the bar stops for 5 or so inches in front of your chest at full contraction. Following those two sets we're going to go with and even wider grip, same rep range 12 to 15 for one set.

Going to finish off the back portion of the workout with straight arm pull-downs with the high cable. 3 sets of 15-20.

Finnish up with barbell power-shrugs in a power-rack. Go as heavy as you can. Pulling the bar off the pins so it's almost like an 8" rest-pause deadlift. 4-5sets of 12-15 reps, setting the bar graph down on the pens after each rep taking a breath and resetting your grip with each rep.

You can also finish off traps after that if you like with a set maybe two of dumbbell shrugs a little bit lighter, while bending your torso forward a little bit not quite to 70 degrees, and shrugging up. This will involve the rhomboids a little bit more.

*can't seem to get pics of anatomy chart of back muscles to post???


I don't see the point in quoting are copying my reply to him and not changing anything or commenting on no reply ???

ESFitness

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2018, 01:08:04 PM »
Nope zero test

Hate test with a passion

Others say its need, well.. FUCK OTHERS

If you take steroids without using testosterone your body will have zero testosterone in the bloodstream.

ESFitness

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2018, 01:10:44 PM »
What ever happened to chins,rows, deadlifts you don't need all that pseudo science pulldown bullshit. It been proven time and time again you can even do with out the deadlifts but why

Because he's probably to weak to do enough reps or have sufficient innervation (mind muscle connection) or control of muscle groups to make things like deadlifts or bent over barbell rows effective. Things like barbell rows can tend to be an ego exercise, and the arms and lower back will get involved and in the way of a person's ability to contract the desired muscle groups

dj181

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2018, 01:20:39 PM »
As i said before i wide grip chins my bw plus 50 pounds added for 6-8 no cheat reps, not too bad strength

I got a strong ass and back, where do you think my punching power comes from? It comes from those 2 strong parts ie. genetics

Vince B

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2018, 02:41:01 PM »
Broscience at its finest in this thread!

"I tried X for Y days and got Z results......!!!"

ESFitness

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2018, 08:28:15 PM »
Broscience at its finest in this thread!

"I tried X for Y days and got Z results......!!!"


Coming from some bitter old man who wrote an article nobody's ever read or cares about and refers to it as a "published study".

... & how many people have you trained again, for money, over the years??

When I have a question regarding whether or not an f/1.4 is worth the cash? Or if a 200 ISO too high for a photo on the beach at 430pm?

Those are questions somebody may reasonably ask you, and your answers maybe a line with Per Burnal's or Alex Ardenti's. However you're always gonna to have some old man who started taking pictures with a polaroid back in the 70s and moved up to disposable cameras  in the 90's doesn't think your aperture & ISO & shutter speed talk is all Broscience

SF1900

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2018, 08:39:45 PM »
Coming from some bitter old man who wrote an article nobody's ever read or cares about and refers to it as a "published study".

... & how many people have you trained again, for money, over the years??

When I have a question regarding whether or not an f/1.4 is worth the cash? Or if a 200 ISO too high for a photo on the beach at 430pm?

Those are questions somebody may reasonably ask you, and your answers maybe a line with Per Burnal's or Alex Ardenti's. However you're always gonna to have some old man who started taking pictures with a polaroid back in the 70s and moved up to disposable cameras  in the 90's doesn't think your aperture & ISO & shutter speed talk is all Broscience

haha lol  ;D ;D

This is correct. Vince Basile never actually published a study in a reputable scientific journal. He thinks his "publication" in a bodybuilding magazine counts. It doesn't.  ;D ;D
X

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2018, 09:18:11 PM »
The photo shows some shoulder development, width potential and no real back development. What does DJ have against rowing and shrugs? A developed back is more impressive than anything else.

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2018, 10:28:57 PM »
I think it was a nice thing for Es to put out a suggested routine for DJ to follow.

sadly, many have already tried to help dj, he will look at your stuff, say thanks then totally not do it anyways because he thinks he knows everything.

all he wants is attention, and at this point to his relief this is my last comment on the fucktard

lets stop wasting our time on this delusional fuckstick

actually even better if some mod can delete my account it would be great.

can't believe I am agreeing with shizzo but guys like dj have ruined this board
"

ESFitness

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #68 on: January 11, 2018, 10:36:37 PM »
I think it was a nice thing for Es to put out a suggested routine for DJ to follow.

sadly, many have already tried to help dj, he will look at your stuff, say thanks then totally not do it anyways because he thinks he knows everything.

all he wants is attention, and at this point to his relief this is my last comment on the fucktard

lets stop wasting our time on this delusional fuckstick

actually even better if some mod can delete my account it would be great.

can't believe I am agreeing with shizzo but guys like dj have ruined this board

I'm aware stuff like that happens often here, however it gives me time to keep sharp.

Vince B

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #69 on: January 11, 2018, 10:38:20 PM »


... & how many people have you trained again, for money, over the years??


I  could care less about how many clients someone has. That doesn't prove the person knows what he is doing.

For the record I started working in gyms in 1965. That was decades before personal training arrived. In my gym

I never charged for training or nutrition information unless I gave a seminar.

Everyone is an expert on Getbig!  By the way, ESF, some of the broscience might be right or at least it works. I accept that.

However, that doesn't mean the broscientists here are experts in the field.

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #70 on: January 11, 2018, 11:24:27 PM »
Mast e

You should at the very least bump up to 400mg. People here may disagree but it's better to run short ester masteron and tren.

ESFitness

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2018, 01:08:42 AM »
I  could care less about how many clients someone has. That doesn't prove the person knows what he is doing.

For the record I started working in gyms in 1965. That was decades before personal training arrived. In my gym

I never charged for training or nutrition information unless I gave a seminar.

Everyone is an expert on Getbig!  By the way, ESF, some of the broscience might be right or at least it works. I accept that.

However, that doesn't mean the broscientists here are experts in the field.


Nobody here is concerned about your concern about how many clients somebody has either. Question at hand was how many clients have you had? Because people with clients who continue refer new clients, tends to know their stuff. It's sort of like the Burger Joint that continues to bring in new customers. It's usually a sign they know what they're doing when it comes to cooking burgers.

I don't care about anyone else. I care about me, and when it comes to training and nutrition, although it's not something I think of myself as, or refer to myself as, often, I am an expert. On get big as well as real life

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2018, 04:04:01 AM »
I think it was a nice thing for Es to put out a suggested routine for DJ to follow.

sadly, many have already tried to help dj, he will look at your stuff, say thanks then totally not do it anyways because he thinks he knows everything.

all he wants is attention, and at this point to his relief this is my last comment on the fucktard

lets stop wasting our time on this delusional fuckstick

actually even better if some mod can delete my account it would be great.

can't believe I am agreeing with shizzo but guys like dj have ruined this board

Very few have an easy time taking advice. Dj has a vision of what he wants his physique to look like, so it doesn't matter if me or ES says he would look better with more thickness or whatever. He wants that slender yet built body with big arms and thin neck whereas someone like myself thinks it looks feminine.

I'd like that Johnnie Jackson development, not that I can ever have it

dj181

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2018, 04:10:09 AM »
I don't ask for advice I ask for opinions, big difference

Only got the deca today, will get the mast on Tuesday

And i cannot take tren it makes me even more physically aggressive so that is a no go, i am aggressive enough

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Re: back shot taken for my boy esf
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2018, 04:34:59 AM »
In all seriousness DJ, you'd experience better arm development, particularly biceps and forearms if you trained back. I train arms directly once in a blue moon because such heavy torso work hits them effectively (having extremely short limbs helps).