Just did legs -- feel like crap

[Primemuscle]

Again, the purpose for me is not to get bigger muscles but to condition my body for intense physical exertion and to have a strong and determined mental attitude that I can use for other challenges in life. I want to develop and maintain an aggressive and resolute mentality for anything that I do in life. I look at all the people on their cell phones, watching TV, sitting on machines just sleepwalking through their workouts. Just like how they probably do in life. I was told once by a gym owner, Mr. Barlow, that he could tell what kind of people they were by watching them train. Most just sleepwalk through life always taking the easiest road to travel waiting to be told what to do.

The people you speak of are not you and you will never be them. This doesn't mean you to have take an extreme opposite approach to be what you want to be. There's nothing wrong with focusing on the task at hand. If one is "sleep walking" though their workout, they'll end up disappointed with the results.

[Primemuscle]

What a bunch of non-training pussies in this thread!! 

If I can`t train balls out,I don`t train at all.

Good. How often can you not train at all?

[Primemuscle]

Pellius I don't understand why you resist taking good advice from someone who thinks differently from you.

Since you are steadily declining over the years what does that tell you? You are doing something wrong.

You need a goal such as gaining one inch on your arms. Then set about to achieve that. Shouldn't be that difficult.

After you see that you can still grow it will change what you do. There is no point getting a consistency award

because of repeating the same old workouts. Try to gain some size. It is not a given that as we age we lose muscle

size. I have proven it to myself. So it could be possible for diehards like yourself. I don't take any drugs or supplements.

Stepping in here, sorry. Size may be what motivates you, but it isn't everyone's goal. Not to be rude, but you look like a fellow who'd have ended up with "safety fat" no matter what. It's your genetics. You definitely haven't maintained the physique you had in the past...none of us more mature dudes have.

[pellius]

Pellius I don't understand why you resist taking good advice from someone who thinks differently from you.

Since you are steadily declining over the years what does that tell you? You are doing something wrong.

You need a goal such as gaining one inch on your arms. Then set about to achieve that. Shouldn't be that difficult.

After you see that you can still grow it will change what you do. There is no point getting a consistency award

because of repeating the same old workouts. Try to gain some size. It is not a given that as we age we lose muscle

size. I have proven it to myself. So it could be possible for diehards like yourself. I don't take any drugs or supplements.

What good advice? Please enlightening me.

And what do you mean I am doing something wrong because I've been declining? I'm getting old. We all decline with age. You must be doing something very, very wrong because I haven't changed that much in the last twenty years whereas you look like a completely different person. With me it's a 15-20 lb difference. With you it's more like thirty pounds with a complete rearrangement in body composition. I still look somewhat fit and lean just as I did in my thirties.

And there you go again saying that I kept doing the same thing. How many times do I have to tell you that I constantly switch up my training protocol and routine? I just recently joined another gym just so I could use the different types of equipment they have that I don't. And my diet has changed radically since five years ago.

If you say one more time that I don't think about what I do, I don't make constant adjustments in frequency, duration and intensity variables; I am going to personally fly out to your neck of the woods and kick you in the balls.

It is YOU! YOU! That keeps preaching the same old, tired, already refuted, training theories that you've never proven and every attempt you have made has failed. I have a track record of success by constantly figuring out different ways to cause an adaptive response in a muscle group that is notoriously noted for being unresponsive to training.
I believe this would also work for other muscle groups as well. Why wouldn't it when those other muscles are much more responsive. I just no longer have the drive and mentality to push myself with the obsessive and psychotic intensity and commitment that I did during my calf obsession.

I proved my "theory" of hypertrophy. You have not.


  

[Primemuscle]

A lot of injured and out of shape guys telling the old ripped guy how to live in here.

If you think something works, it is only human nature to want to share it. Pellius looks great, no doubt about it. So whatever his routine and diet are he's doing something right or he is just lucky. I thought the comment he offered was that after he worked legs, he felt like crap. Maybe some people think feeling like crap means you had a good workout, but I think there is a possibility they simply over did it. Read somewhere that you should end your workout wanting to do more because it will motivate you to come back time after time.

[pellius]

The people you speak of are not you and you will never be them. This doesn't mean you to have take an extreme opposite approach to be what you want to be. There's nothing wrong with focusing on the task at hand. If one is "sleep walking" though their workout, they'll end up disappointed with the results.

They are not disappointed. They are unaware. They don't even think about what they are doing and how it affects or not affects them. They are like zombies just going through the motions of life.

One thing that really surprised me as I got older and started getting people's opinion on things like the afterlife, the meaning of life, is there a God, what happens when you die...
I was shocked at how many people don't even consider these issues. It's a non-issue for them. They just pretty much live their lives by how they were raised. Never questioning. Never a moment of self-awareness. That's how they are in the gym. Going through the motions, some not even knowing what muscles are being worked.

As Socrates once said, "The unexamined life is not worth living."

[pellius]

"Sergio claimed he was in his biggest and best shape training under Jones in Deland, Florida."

He was only there for a couple of weeks. He then competed against Bill Pearl for the Mr. Universe in 71.  Sergio wasn't at his best and Pearl was at his all time best. Later that year Sergio took his body to insane levels. Sergio competed for so many years in various states of size and condition. At his best he was untouchable. Anyone who has seen him train through the years will vouch that he trained with volume and a lot of it. Sergio always had a fondness for Arthur Jones. He was one of the few in bodybuilding that actually paid him a decent buck.

By all accounts, Jones was not an easy maqn to get along with. He appeared to be a very demanding, no-nonsense, bit of a tyrant who had very little patience for those who thought were fools. And it seems in his eyes most were fools. It seems most did not personally like him and I think that hurt him as far as not being as famous as he should be. I have never met anybody under 40 years old that have even heard of him. But Sergio liked him. He liked that he was an honest straight shooter and did what he said and said what he did. The following is a couple of excerpts of an interview done by Brian David Johnson.


BDJ: Judging from past photos, I believe you were your biggest while training with Jones.

Oliva: No question about it. And it’s too bad… I should have stayed with him. When I went to London in 1970 for the Mr. Universe, everyone knew I beat those guys, including Bill Pearl… I was given second place. From there I was to go to the 1971 Mr. Olympia, in Paris. I spoke to Serge Nubret who asked that I go to the Mr. Olympia since Joe Weider wouldn’t be there to fix the contest. I then flew to Paris, and while there Joe found out I was going to compete. And he refused… he would not let me compete. He said I was suspended for a year because I competed in the non-IFBB sanctioned Mr. Universe in London the year before. He used any kind of trick. He allowed me to do a posing exhibition, but not compete. In 1972, the Mr. Olympia promoter called everyone to go, and everyone did. But Joe didn’t want Arnold to go, but Arnold wanted to compete. (I have nothing against Arnold, he has done very well; many people used him in the beginning, then he used them.) Arnold competed in Essen. By that time, the training I had with Jones allowed me to win the contest by miles. People are still talking about Essen ’72. Even Arnold himself said that he didn’t win, that it was nothing but politics… it was nothing but politics, but they gave it to him. After that contest Weider put the promoter out of the promotion business. Serge Nubret used to be the big man when it came to running contests. Weider also put him out of the business because Serge did not want to run the contests the way Weider wanted to run them his way with the placings predetermined.

BDJ: What opinion do you have of Arthur Jones?

SO: Anything I have to say about Jones is good. He is the only honest man I met in bodybuilding. If he says “I’m going to pay you so much”, he does. If he says that he’s going to train you a particular way, and next year you’re going to look a certain way, then you will look that way. He’s the type of person you like to be around; the type of person you like to deal with since he won’t screw you or use you. Totally different from those other assholes. And everyone who went down to Florida knows that. And it’s too bad… if Jones was the one running all the competitions, there would have been a lot of changes. He should have been the one to run the Mr. Olympia and other contests.

  

[Humble Narcissist]

Pellius I don't understand why you resist taking good advice from someone who thinks differently from you.

Since you are steadily declining over the years what does that tell you? You are doing something wrong.

You need a goal such as gaining one inch on your arms. Then set about to achieve that. Shouldn't be that difficult.

After you see that you can still grow it will change what you do. There is no point getting a consistency award

because of repeating the same old workouts. Try to gain some size. It is not a given that as we age we lose muscle

size. I have proven it to myself. So it could be possible for diehards like yourself. I don't take any drugs or supplements.

Vince, you look like you have more muscle than most men in your age group but are not anywhere close to Pellius's shape.  You have some good ideas on hypertrophy training that you've written about in the past.  The problem with your idea is that no one can continue to work a muscle every other day to failure for that volume continuously without developing severe tendonitis in the joints.  You've even mentioned it before how your elbows can't handle that workout for long.  For a young person it may work fine.

[deadz]

I know. We're all going to die.

You’ll go first old man.

[IroNat]

This is nothing a few Big Macs won't fix.

[Hulkotron]

It is great to see that pellius has survived this ordeal.

[Primemuscle]

They are not disappointed. They are unaware. They don't even think about what they are doing and how it affects or not affects them. They are like zombies just going through the motions of life.

One thing that really surprised me as I got older and started getting people's opinion on things like the afterlife, the meaning of life, is there a God, what happens when you die...
I was shocked at how many people don't even consider these issues. It's a non-issue for them. They just pretty much live their lives by how they were raised. Never questioning. Never a moment of self-awareness. That's how they are in the gym. Going through the motions, some not even knowing what muscles are being worked.

As Socrates once said, "The unexamined life is not worth living."

This begs the question, why go to the gym at all if they are that disinterested in working out or the results? Is just for the camaraderie? 

[wes]

A lot of injured and out of shape guys telling the old ripped guy how to live in here.

End thread!!  LOL 

[Vince B]

Vince, you look like you have more muscle than most men in your age group but are not anywhere close to Pellius's shape.  You have some good ideas on hypertrophy training that you've written about in the past.  The problem with your idea is that no one can continue to work a muscle every other day to failure for that volume continuously without developing severe tendonitis in the joints.  You've even mentioned it before how your elbows can't handle that workout for long.  For a young person it may work fine.

Some say that Pellius looks "great". No, but he is lean. That isn't easy to maintain as most of us get older. If we diet the muscle disappears. Quite strange how the body clings to fat and sheds muscle.

What every trainee aims for is the most efficient and effective way to grow muscles. That is what bodybuilding is all about. Well, as we all know, gains can be made over several years just
going to a gym and training hard. However, the goal of maximum hypertrophy is something most never achieve. Why is that? Why do so many train so hard and so long but fail to get big arms for example? Most here have no clue. Pellius does all manner of different things but stays the same. Whatever is the purpose of doing that?

Here is a question that I doubt anyone here can answer. Why does DOMS occur? Why does DOMS occur in advanced trainees? If you think about that phenomenon you might grasp where
I am coming from. Understanding DOMS is the key to maximum hypertrophy. Sure, it is possible to get bigger without getting very sore. However, how then does one get even bigger than
before?

I don't advocate training a muscle every second day but every third day. This is important. Pellius insists on waiting for a muscle to adapt or recover before retraining it. I retrain the muscle even though sore. In this way I hope to keep the muscle in a state of steady growth. I know this works. Sore elbows were caused by keeping the elbows on a bench as Larry Scott recommended. Nope, never let the elbows touch pads because you will damage the delicate sheath that goes over the joint. Elbows and knees have the same concerns. Friction under loads causes damage. For calves avoid ballistic movements done in any volume.

[Hulkotron]

Some say that Pellius looks "great". No, but he is lean. That isn't easy to maintain as most of us get older. If we diet the muscle disappears. Quite strange how the body clings to fat and sheds muscle.

What every trainee aims for is the most efficient and effective way to grow muscles. That is what bodybuilding is all about. Well, as we all know, gains can be made over several years just
going to a gym and training hard. However, the goal of maximum hypertrophy is something most never achieve. Why is that? Why do so many train so hard and so long but fail to get big arms for example? Most here have no clue. Pellius does all manner of different things but stays the same. Whatever is the purpose of doing that?

Here is a question that I doubt anyone here can answer. Why does DOMS occur? Why does DOMS occur in advanced trainees? If you think about that phenomenon you might grasp where
I am coming from. Understanding DOMS is the key to maximum hypertrophy. Sure, it is possible to get bigger without getting very sore. However, how then does one get even bigger than
before?

I don't advocate training a muscle every second day but every third day. This is important. Pellius insists on waiting for a muscle to adapt or recover before retraining it. I retrain the muscle even though sore. In this way I hope to keep the muscle in a state of steady growth. I know this works. Sore elbows were caused by keeping the elbows on a bench as Larry Scott recommended. Nope, never let the elbows touch pads because you will damage the delicate sheath that goes over the joint. Elbows and knees have the same concerns. Friction under loads causes damage. For calves avoid ballistic movements done in any volume.

[wes]

LOL  

[Vince B]

Some reading for the broscience community....includes 99% of Getbiggers!


http://www.arthurjonesexercise.com/First_Half/1.PDF

[pellius]

Some say that Pellius looks "great". No, but he is lean. That isn't easy to maintain as most of us get older. If we diet the muscle disappears. Quite strange how the body clings to fat and sheds muscle.

What every trainee aims for is the most efficient and effective way to grow muscles. That is what bodybuilding is all about. Well, as we all know, gains can be made over several years just
going to a gym and training hard. However, the goal of maximum hypertrophy is something most never achieve. Why is that? Why do so many train so hard and so long but fail to get big arms for example? Most here have no clue. Pellius does all manner of different things but stays the same. Whatever is the purpose of doing that?

Here is a question that I doubt anyone here can answer. Why does DOMS occur? Why does DOMS occur in advanced trainees? If you think about that phenomenon you might grasp where
I am coming from. Understanding DOMS is the key to maximum hypertrophy. Sure, it is possible to get bigger without getting very sore. However, how then does one get even bigger than
before?

I don't advocate training a muscle every second day but every third day. This is important. Pellius insists on waiting for a muscle to adapt or recover before retraining it. I retrain the muscle even though sore. In this way I hope to keep the muscle in a state of steady growth. I know this works. Sore elbows were caused by keeping the elbows on a bench as Larry Scott recommended. Nope, never let the elbows touch pads because you will damage the delicate sheath that goes over the joint. Elbows and knees have the same concerns. Friction under loads causes damage. For calves avoid ballistic movements done in any volume.

All that knowledge you have. All that first class equipment. All the free time in the world. Yet, you get worse. You do nothing, get softer and weaker, yet you preach and lecture to me, someone who is way above average for my age, as to what I should be doing and how I am wasting my time.

Tomorrow I will be at the gym doing a workout  that I truly believe would kill you. You will continue to shake your head at how no one recognizes and appreciates your genius.

Who is the one wasting their time and their life?

[Bevo]

The people you speak of are not you and you will never be them. This doesn't mean you to have take an extreme opposite approach to be what you want to be. There's nothing wrong with focusing on the task at hand. If one is "sleep walking" though their workout, they'll end up disappointed with the results.

Phil Heath sleep walked through half of his work outs and won 7 titles

Chris Cormier was on the phone half of the time and looking at hoes and won 4 iron man titles and finished top 3 twice at the O

Flex Wheeler half assed his work outs and did exercises entirely on smith machines and ended up one of the best ever

Kevin Levrone took months off and showed up at the O placing top 5 many times

Jay cutler and dexter, training like they could put you to sleep their entire career, all about the pump sets won multiple sets 

Many more come to mind

The whole training balls to the walls and about the “old days” is pure nonsense

However, if you enjoy training and just like lifting go right on ahead, just don’t follow Ronnie’s foot steps

[Primemuscle]

Some say that Pellius looks "great". No, but he is lean. That isn't easy to maintain as most of us get older. If we diet the muscle disappears. Quite strange how the body clings to fat and sheds muscle.

What every trainee aims for is the most efficient and effective way to grow muscles. That is what bodybuilding is all about. Well, as we all know, gains can be made over several years just
going to a gym and training hard. However, the goal of maximum hypertrophy is something most never achieve. Why is that? Why do so many train so hard and so long but fail to get big arms for example? Most here have no clue. Pellius does all manner of different things but stays the same. Whatever is the purpose of doing that?

Here is a question that I doubt anyone here can answer. Why does DOMS occur? Why does DOMS occur in advanced trainees? If you think about that phenomenon you might grasp where
I am coming from. Understanding DOMS is the key to maximum hypertrophy. Sure, it is possible to get bigger without getting very sore. However, how then does one get even bigger than
before?

I don't advocate training a muscle every second day but every third day. This is important. Pellius insists on waiting for a muscle to adapt or recover before retraining it. I retrain the muscle even though sore. In this way I hope to keep the muscle in a state of steady growth. I know this works. Sore elbows were caused by keeping the elbows on a bench as Larry Scott recommended. Nope, never let the elbows touch pads because you will damage the delicate sheath that goes over the joint. Elbows and knees have the same concerns. Friction under loads causes damage. For calves avoid ballistic movements done in any volume.

Here's the point I think you are missing, some of us old guys just want to be healthy and fit. You may still desire to increase muscle mass (against all odds) and are willing to pad them with a layer of necessary fat. That's fine...do your thing. What I suspect your are ignoring is that your goals are not everyone's nor are they the be all, end all.

I could be way off, but it seems like you are focused on recapturing the desires and accomplishments of your youth. Hate to disappoint you, but unless you have some magic pill (or machine), this is never going to happen. But hey, whatever floats your boat. It's all good.

[chaos]

Pellius I don't understand why you resist taking good advice from someone who thinks differently from you.

Since you are steadily declining over the years what does that tell you? You are doing something wrong.

You need a goal such as gaining one inch on your arms. Then set about to achieve that. Shouldn't be that difficult.

After you see that you can still grow it will change what you do. There is no point getting a consistency award

because of repeating the same old workouts. Try to gain some size. It is not a given that as we age we lose muscle

size. I have proven it to myself. So it could be possible for diehards like yourself. I don't take any drugs or supplements.

You look like a normal, old, fat guy. Do you even lift?

[Vince B]

Here's the point I think you are missing, some of us old guys just want to be healthy and fit. You may still desire to increase muscle mass (against all odds) and are willing to pad them with a layer of necessary fat. That's fine...do your thing. What I suspect your are ignoring is that your goals are not everyone's nor are they the be all, end all.

I could be way off, but it seems like you are focused on recapturing the desires and accomplishments of your youth. Hate to disappoint you, but unless you have some magic pill (or machine), this is never going to happen. But hey, whatever floats your boat. It's all good.

I swear, Prime, you come across as a dense individual. The point of trying to trigger hypertrophy in muscles as we age is to get the hormones that are produced in muscular growth. A simple shortcut to the fountain of youth. I don't need any injections or pills or supplements or even a special diet. Compare what I do to what you do. Sure it requires knowledge and heaps of effort but the rewards are there for those who dare.

[Vince B]

All that knowledge you have. All that first class equipment. All the free time in the world. Yet, you get worse. You do nothing, get softer and weaker, yet you preach and lecture to me, someone who is way above average for my age, as to what I should be doing and how I am wasting my time.

Tomorrow I will be at the gym doing a workout  that I truly believe would kill you. You will continue to shake your head at how no one recognizes and appreciates your genius.

Who is the one wasting their time and their life?

Pellius is demonstrating his foolish training methods. Why on earth put yourself through workouts that would kill me? What is the purpose of going to that extreme? Beats me. Years ago you insisted trainees needed heaps of protein. I pointed out that this was a waste of resources. You need more energy foods and what happens is the body will convert unneeded extra protein to energy. You altered your diet and haven't suffered. So you do have a limited capacity to actually learn new things.

So please explain why you need those brutal workouts? Seems to be ego driven to impress lower mortals at your gyms.

What I advocate is for Pellius to look in the mirror and flex his biggest arm. Impressive? Probably not. Well, try to make them grow an inch and see how long it takes you. Then come
back and post about your experience. You will have to change what you believe about hypertrophy and the ageing male. You will also not require any chemical assistance that you now depend on re your being influenced by gh15.

[pellius]

Here's the point I think you are missing, some of us old guys just want to be healthy and fit. You may still desire to increase muscle mass (against all odds) and are willing to pad them with a layer of necessary fat. That's fine...do your thing. What I suspect your are ignoring is that your goals are not everyone's nor are they the be all, end all.

I could be way off, but it seems like you are focused on recapturing the desires and accomplishments of your youth. Hate to disappoint you, but unless you have some magic pill (or machine), this is never going to happen. But hey, whatever floats your boat. It's all good.

Oh brother. Its amazing how much I say goes over people's head when I try be as clear as possible. I have stated countless times that I am not a bber per se. I am not trying to get bigger muscles. I only eat two meals a day FFS! I've stressed many times that I am much more focused on health, fitness and functional ability.

I push myself because I have the will and desire. As I've stated here and elsewhere that I want to condition both my mind and body to endure  physical exertion. To develop some physical and mental toughness in our cushy and pampered lives.

Basile only cares about appearance. Big muscles. Specifically, big arm muscles. Always talks about big arms. Only trains arms. There is way more to resistance  training than big arms to show off. He completely  neglects and has no concern to what I believe is the most important aspect to physical training. That being physical fitness, health, athletic and functional ability. Some of the greatest athletes don't have huge muscles but at least they can go up a flight of stairs without getting winded or pull their over developed hamstrings doing a sprint.

Yes, I have not gotten bigger muscles over the years. Vince thinks we can keep growing indefinitely and if you're not you're doing something wrong, i.e., not listening to him. But at least I can perform physically at a much higher level than most my age or any age.

Only in 2018 that people will cite how lazy some are, though still successful due to God given gifts, and think that is something to emulate, and in the same breath criticize and discourage someone who still believes in hard work and trying to push yourself. Not to relive any past perceived glory but simply to better one's self. To challenge one's self and experience the exhilaration of just being alive.

BTW Vince, when I was able to I trained 1:30 am so I could train by myself. I prefer to train alone in an empty gym so I can move faster and not wait on other people sleep walking, taking up space and getting in the way. I'm  not trying to impress anyone. I'll leave that to you and your big arms.

Now this is a meltdown.

What you?

[Vince B]

Fear no man, Pellius! I merely give you a possible way to do something interesting and beneficial at the same time. The word 'fitness' is somewhat controversial because we can always ask fit for what? If you use physical culture to prepare you for any attack or calamity then good for you. I don't knock others who do extreme things. Gives those people a purpose and direction. All I am arguing is that hypertrophy is possible in old age. This isn't what we believed in the past and many today still don't believe it. Why not do an experiment with your own body to see what the reality is? Of course, no additional size will appear unless one eats enough to make that possible.

The awful truth about hypertrophy training for advanced trainees is it is brutal and taxing. Not at all something one looks forward to. Especially when you have to keep pushing the limits regarding reps and resistance. Always towards progression. Yes, a lot to go through for very little gain. However, it is nice to look at most males out there and know you have bigger arms than them and are vastly stronger as well. I have a friend who hasn't seen me in a couple of years. He was astonished at the size of my triceps. So there you are gains are still possible even when you are 76 years old.