Gym Etiquette - Was I Wrong Here?

[ChristopherA]

Matt stop posting about some fantasy cycle you're never going to do. Either do it or don't.

[Dave D]

It's real simple you are using your delts when benching because you insist on going too heavy vs using less weight and using the proper muscle to move the weight. You need to rotate the shoulders back to take them out of the movement also doint go 90 degrees on the side with elbows bring them down at an angle. And then squeeze the pec during the movement get the mind muscle connection and make the pec do the work you will need to use less weight to do this and a full range of motion you don't even break 90 degrees when pressing. You are still doing half reps and using your shoulders to do the work. Lighten the weight increase the range of motion and squeeze your pecs

Stop Ego lifting

Bhanks I am also concerned for your mental health.


Matt I’m glad you’re feeling better!

[Matt]

I`m just fucking around but pretty soon this thread will resemble the Ronnie vs. Dorian thread....epic proportions of peace.

Good luck dude.......train hard.

That's true - time to pick up the needles today [the ONE time I will wear a mask while getting them, lol], and just load one up with 250mg of Sustanon and get this show on the road.

I will stop posting in this thread at bedtime tonight, and make a cycle update thread when things get going.

I'm just not a big eater - but knowing this is just a one-off cycle, I look forward to getting on a full bodybuilding nutrition program for the duration of this cycle. I really expect good things here. 

Thanks for the support, wes. I'll update as the cycle goes on. 

[Matt]

If you're making progress at a "snail's pace", your diet is anything BUT perfect....at least for you.

For me, when I ditched the so-called perfect diet of chicken breasts, egg whites, and rice and went with beef and eggs and whole milk, business picked up. The gains I once thought I needed anabolics to achieve I was able to obtain without them.

Now you're talking a language I understand.

But I'm somewhat confused about why those dietary changes produced a significantly improved outcome, MCWAY.

I'll be honest - all those whole foods are excellent [IMO], but I would say my go-to is chicken breasts and rice.

Exactly why might beef be a better choice? Is it the natural fats that made the difference?

I have no issue adjusting to making beef my primary meat protein source, but...what's wrong with chicken breasts? Lol.

You need to understand that when I am committed - I am COMMITTED. When I am committed, I am ALL IN.

I think if you recall my classic bodybuilding website [now offline], you may recall I am very committed.

I mean - does anyone bench press 315x8 at 170 if they aren't training hard and consistently for years? Aside from genetic freaks?

It's been decades, since I weighed 170 lbs. And I have no intentions of being that weight ever again.

I called your training protocol "AWFUL" because YOU said you were feeling beat up and not fully recovered. And who said I had an 80-lb weight advantage on you? I didn't. That would put me at 250, which I haven't weighed in over FIFTEEN YEARS!!

Yes, MCWAY.
Correct.

I find that from day to day, I'm still feeling not recovered *overall*.

I feel fully recovered today, but probably on half my days, I still feel sore from either my back day or my legs day.

However - I have been pushing a hard back day and a hard legs day both in the same week.

That's probably too much. I should probably do one heavy CNS workout per week. This week, legs, next week back, and repeat.

I don't find other muscle groups are as taxing as legs and back. Other areas recover much faster.

Again, just to be clear - it's not that I train legs when my legs are still sore - it's just that I sometimes train legs while my back is still sore, or vice versa. That's what I meant about not recovering completely.

But that's also proof that my workouts are effective - on my most recent legs day, I could not walk easily for the next two days. The issue may be that I'm taxing my CNS too much.

It's a fine line, right? We want to work out hard enough for our workouts to be effective, but not so hard that we over-train. I may be *slightly* overtraining now - but I don't think it's so much that it's making me regress - I am gaining my old strength back from one workout to the next. Literally every workout, I am a bit closer to my old lifts. I feel my physical appearance is improving [pictures below]. And I'd rather slightly over-train, then under-train. Ideally, I want to train the OPTIMAL amount, but...I'm refining everything as I go. I'm getting there, and things are going well.

And why are you stuck on this "18 months" thing? You're basically stating that, despite knowing how to eat and train perfectly, it will take you NEARLY SIX TIMES AS LONG to get the modest gains you seek without steroids as it would with them.

That's a bit of a stretch!

Yes, that's what I'm saying. 

Could my subclinical hypothyroidism play a role here, MCWAY?

I'm also a classical ectomorph body structure. Could that be the issue?

My experience with steroids is that within basically a few days, I'm feeling oral steroids, and within a matter of week, I'm getting better pumps and gains than I do from MONTHS of natural training.

I mean - STEROIDS WORK...right? In the 1980's, the press said they didn't work, but...that was bull.

I don't believe that I will get certain qualities without steroids - basically the pumps, the feeling of being full, and my muscles sort of "popping" a bit more.

It's not just about weight, or just about body composition. I think it's about qualities that you just can't get as a natural.

I think I could basically make the same gains in 20% of the time, because of steroids.

And as I said - I don't want to follow a bodybuilding nutrition protocol for five times as long.

Do I think I will make the same gains in 16 weeks on my planned cycle as I would make in 18 months of natural training and eating?

Yeah. More or less, yes.

I'll put it this way: I basically maxed out at the 950-lb tire in town. I couldn't flip it twice, no matter how hard I trained.

I went on Anadrol, and within two weeks, I could flip it two time. And I didn't even train tire at that time.

So yeah, steroids make a huge difference.

I feel you are severely downplaying steroids, MCWAY.

What is your body weight, MCWAY?

Because if you are natural, I just can't imagine your gains are anything special either. At my gym, we have a biohazard bin for needles - it is FULL every time I see it, with steroid gauge needles. Yet I wouldn't think ANYONE at my gym is on steroids - not one. So I simply don't believe that anyone is making natural gains, and even the juicers at my gym are less developed and less strong than me.

Really, MCWAY - what is the natural max for a man of 5'10"? Maybe 180-lb at 6% body fat?

Photos below:

Yesterday: 183-lb.
January 2020: 160-lb.
June 2021: 195-lb.
December 2021: 175-lb.
2007: 193-lb on steroids.

[Matt]

^ Tell me, MCWAY:

Looking at those pictures, do I look even ONE PERCENTAGE lower in body fat at 160 than I do now at 183?

So do you think maybe I KNOW EXACTLY HOW I RESPOND to training, cutting, etc?

My body adapts VERY QUICKLY. And I could starve myself, and still be the same body fat percentage.

So I know exactly what works for me.

As I said, I could do all the "bro" eating, and I will just get fatter, naturally. Our bodies are extremely good at keeping us in homeostasis.

And I was at my city's biggest public pool yesterday. I WAS THE LEANEST AND MOST MUSCULAR PERSON THERE, BY FAR. out of 100+ people, EASILY.

A high school friend of mine barely recognized me, if not for my face. I hadn't seen him in person since high school, and he was flabbergasted at how in-shape I am.

So.

I just think you are being unrealistic. I find it strange that I am the fittest person at my gym - the biggest gym in town - and that I was #18 in Canada for Strongman in my weight class, but that my training is so bad, and I don't know what I'm doing. 

No, MCWAY. Here is reality:

I am in the top 1% of both strength AND physique development in my city. There are 50,000 men here, and there is NO CHANCE that 500 men are more in shape OR stronger than me.

I swear, this board is La La Land sometimes. Just like when I was in the army - I was the fastest and fittest soldier CONSISTENTLY in the army. And I trained with the JTF-2 [basically, Canada's Marines], and was commended by my prime minister in 2002.

You make it sound like I don't know what I'm doing, when I could warm up with the workouts of most 25-year-olds.

[Matt]

Matt stop posting about some fantasy cycle you're never going to do. Either do it or don't.

I will.

I'll update this post one last time before bed tonight, then just let it carry on without me - then update my cycle in a few weeks, once it gets going.

Then the thread will be for cycle tweaks and tips.

Thanks for kicking me in the right direction, ChristopherA.  I'm looking forward to it.

[Matt]

Bhanks I am also concerned for your mental health.


Matt I’m glad you’re feeling better!

Thanks Dave!

It does anger me that - as I suspected - the pandemic lockdown bullshit was THE issue causing all my malaise.

But...I'm a free man for now, so...no need to dwell on it. Even though I will. 
 
The cycle will make me happy. If I have any mental health side effects, I'll just abort and start PCT. 

I'll PM you.

[IroNat]

To look like a bodybuilder (if that is your goal) train like a bodybuilder.

[Matt]

To look like a bodybuilder (if that is your goal) train like a bodybuilder.

I will start that TONIGHT. My training partner slightly injured his wrist last Saturday...I haven't heard back from him yet, but hopefully we get our biceps and triceps workout in tonight, and I can try some slow and controlled reps, and do a proper bodybuilding training program.

I much prefer heavier training...but for this summer/cycle, I am committed to training bodybuilding-style.

[Matt]

I just remembered that Mike Wolf died. He was 5'11.5" and 426-lb, and had previously used steroids.

Now I'm second guessing my cycle plans.

Should I abort mission?

[joswift]

I just remembered that Mike Wolf died. He was 5'11.5" and 426-lb, and had previously used steroids.

Now I'm second guessing my cycle plans.

Should I abort mission?

if you are planning to get to 426lb then yes, I think its wise.

[Grape Ape]

Matt, please ensure you get the same back photo you've posted a thousand times on each subsequent page.

[Matt]

Matt, please ensure you get the same back photo you've posted a thousand times on each subsequent page.

My back double biceps pose is my only good pose.

After chest day, my chest sometimes looks ok.

[GymnJuice]

I just remembered that Mike Wolf died. He was 5'11.5" and 426-lb, and had previously used steroids.

Now I'm second guessing my cycle plans.

Should I abort mission?

I think you're sixth guessing, at least, since this thread started.

 

[Skeletor]

My back double biceps pose is my only good pose.

After chest day, my chest sometimes looks ok.

This front relaxed pose is good, this is the shape and conditioning you should aim for.

[MCWAY]

Now you're talking a language I understand.

But I'm somewhat confused about why those dietary changes produced a significantly improved outcome, MCWAY.

I'll be honest - all those whole foods are excellent [IMO], but I would say my go-to is chicken breasts and rice.

Exactly why might beef be a better choice? Is it the natural fats that made the difference?

I have no issue adjusting to making beef my primary meat protein source, but...what's wrong with chicken breasts? Lol.

Beef is more calorie-dense and has more nutrients. Plus, for losing weight, it keeps you satiated longer. So, you're less likely to binge. Plus, depending where you buy (and this was especially true when I was in the military), it's cheaper than chicken.

And I dig whole eggs. Whoever came up with separating the yolk from the whites needs to be HORSE-WHIPPED.

You need to understand that when I am committed - I am COMMITTED. When I am committed, I am ALL IN.

I think if you recall my classic bodybuilding website [now offline], you may recall I am very committed.

I mean - does anyone bench press 315x8 at 170 if they aren't training hard and consistently for years? Aside from genetic freaks?

Yes, MCWAY.
Correct.

I find that from day to day, I'm still feeling not recovered *overall*.

I feel fully recovered today, but probably on half my days, I still feel sore from either my back day or my legs day.

However - I have been pushing a hard back day and a hard legs day both in the same week.

That's probably too much. I should probably do one heavy CNS workout per week. This week, legs, next week back, and repeat.

I don't find other muscle groups are as taxing as legs and back. Other areas recover much faster.

Again, just to be clear - it's not that I train legs when my legs are still sore - it's just that I sometimes train legs while my back is still sore, or vice versa. That's what I meant about not recovering completely.

That's why I recommended a basic routine, such has the old-school whole body 3-times-a-week deal, to help you recover. Or, perhaps a simple split like the one I've used for nearly 30 years: Upper body - Mondays & Thursdays; Legs - Tuesdays and Fridays.

But that's also proof that my workouts are effective - on my most recent legs day, I could not walk easily for the next two days. The issue may be that I'm taxing my CNS too much.

It's a fine line, right? We want to work out hard enough for our workouts to be effective, but not so hard that we over-train. I may be *slightly* overtraining now - but I don't think it's so much that it's making me regress - I am gaining my old strength back from one workout to the next. Literally every workout, I am a bit closer to my old lifts. I feel my physical appearance is improving [pictures below]. And I'd rather slightly over-train, then under-train. Ideally, I want to train the OPTIMAL amount, but...I'm refining everything as I go. I'm getting there, and things are going well.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. 

Could my subclinical hypothyroidism play a role here, MCWAY?

I'm also a classical ectomorph body structure. Could that be the issue?

My experience with steroids is that within basically a few days, I'm feeling oral steroids, and within a matter of week, I'm getting better pumps and gains than I do from MONTHS of natural training.

I mean - STEROIDS WORK...right? In the 1980's, the press said they didn't work, but...that was bull.

I don't believe that I will get certain qualities without steroids - basically the pumps, the feeling of being full, and my muscles sort of "popping" a bit more.

It's not just about weight, or just about body composition. I think it's about qualities that you just can't get as a natural.

I think I could basically make the same gains in 20% of the time, because of steroids.

And as I said - I don't want to follow a bodybuilding nutrition protocol for five times as long.

Do I think I will make the same gains in 16 weeks on my planned cycle as I would make in 18 months of natural training and eating?

Yeah. More or less, yes.

I'll put it this way: I basically maxed out at the 950-lb tire in town. I couldn't flip it twice, no matter how hard I trained.

I went on Anadrol, and within two weeks, I could flip it two time. And I didn't even train tire at that time.

So yeah, steroids make a huge difference.

I feel you are severely downplaying steroids, MCWAY.

What is your body weight, MCWAY?

Because if you are natural, I just can't imagine your gains are anything special either. At my gym, we have a biohazard bin for needles - it is FULL every time I see it, with steroid gauge needles. Yet I wouldn't think ANYONE at my gym is on steroids - not one. So I simply don't believe that anyone is making natural gains, and even the juicers at my gym are less developed and less strong than me.

Really, MCWAY - what is the natural max for a man of 5'10"? Maybe 180-lb at 6% body fat?

Photos below:

Yesterday: 183-lb.
January 2020: 160-lb.
June 2021: 195-lb.
December 2021: 175-lb.
2007: 193-lb on steroids.

I don't downplay steroids. But, I don't make them the be-all-end-all either (at least not for the kind of gains you seek or my own personal purposes). Again, for the most part, I've achieved many of my goals without them.

As of Monday, my bodyweight was 223 lbs. I'm not sure what my body fat level is. I'd guess somewhere in the mid-teens.

I just turned 49 on the 22nd and I feel great (except for a slightly sore right elbow). Overall, I'm stronger and bigger than I was in my college years.

[Matt]

Beef is more calorie-dense and has more nutrients. Plus, for losing weight, it keeps you satiated longer. So, you're less likely to binge. Plus, depending where you buy (and this was especially true when I was in the military), it's cheaper than chicken.

And I dig whole eggs. Whoever came up with separating the yolk from the whites needs to be HORSE-WHIPPED.

When do the egg whites thing start? Back when eggs were getting a bad reputation for containing cholesterol in the early 1990's?

That's why I recommended a basic routine, such has the old-school whole body 3-times-a-week deal, to help you recover. Or, perhaps a simple split like the one I've used for nearly 30 years: Upper body - Mondays & Thursdays; Legs - Tuesdays and Fridays.

I'm settled on doing a hypertrophy-only program.

It's not going to be easy to start...I will always want to do a set of 2-6 reps, if not max out. But in two weeks...hopefully my muscle memory will switch around a little.

I don't downplay steroids. But, I don't make them the be-all-end-all either (at least not for the kind of gains you seek or my own personal purposes). Again, for the most part, I've achieved many of my goals without them.

When my shoulders are as big as my head in four months, I want you to drone on about I could have achieved that naturally.

That must be why, what, FUCKING EVERYBODY WHO IS IN AN INDUSTRY INVOLVING PHYSIQUE OF ATHLETIC ENHANCEMENT IS ON JUICE.

I mean, only EVERYBODY does it - but tell me more about far shitty natural bodybuilding will get it.

As of Monday, my bodyweight was 223 lbs. I'm not sure what my body fat level is. I'd guess somewhere in the mid-teens.

I just turned 49 on the 22nd and I feel great (except for a slightly sore right elbow). Overall, I'm stronger and bigger than I was in my college years.

If not for gym closures, I would have been stronger at 40 than I was at 25. Slower, no doubt, but not weaker.

I am only weaker now because I had a 2-year layoff.

But again - when my shoulders are as big as my head in four months, tell me all about how far I could have gone naturally.

Utter bollocks.
You talk to me like I haven't been a observer of this fraud all-drugs industry for over two decades now.

Picture from two hours ago:

[AbrahamG]

Are you doing only a sustanon 250 cycle?  How often will you be injecting?  Where will you inject?  What size needles will you be using?  Do you have anything on hand in case you start to aromatize estrogen?  How many weeks will this run last?  What will you be doing after the sustanon?  PCT?  Clomid?  Enclomiphene?  You should start a separate thread outlining the details.  Good luck. 

[Matt]

Are you doing only a sustanon 250 cycle?

Sustanon 250 + Anadrol:

Weeks 1-4: 500mg Sustanon weekly + 25mg Anadrol daily.
Weeks 5-8: 625mg Sustanon weekly + 25mg Anadrol daily.
Weeks 9-12: 625mg Sustanon weekly + 50mg Anadrol daily.
Weeks 13-16: 750mg Sustanon weekly.

*PCT will follow.
**Protocol above can be modified slightly. But as per Van Bilderass' suggestion, the idea is to increase gear as time goes on, as gains slow down and diminishing returns are brought on.

How often will you be injecting?

Mondays and Fridays.

Where will you inject?

Shoulders, glutes, and quads.

What size needles will you be using?

In 2004, I had a penchant for 21 gauge needles. They seemed mid-range between harpooning a blue whale at 17ga and injecting insulin at 27ga.

Do you have anything on hand in case you start to aromatize estrogen?

Yes. Nolvadex.

How many weeks will this run last?

16 weeks. I want to get a good two months of really feeling this cycle.

What will you be doing after the sustanon?  PCT?  Clomid?  Enclomiphene?

Clomid for PCT, although I read that Clomid is damaging to the eyesight? 

I have a penchant for not damaging my eyesight.

You should start a separate thread outlining the details.

Small chance I abort the cycle in the first month, even though that chance is very unlikely. Much like Britney Spears' pregnancy reveal which was too early, and for which the pregnancy resulted in a miscarriage, I don't want to start an official cycle thread in the event I abort mission. Once I solidly reach Week 4, I will start a cycle updates thread.

Good luck.

Thank you. I'm 99% certain this cycle will be well underway by the Fourth of July.

[Matt]

Update:

I got a second blood test on Monday to follow up on my high TSH level [slow thyroid], to rule out autoimmune disorders.

As I am not 100% certain from the results below if everything here is fine, I am saddened to report that I need to cancel my planned cycle.

[Mohammed Omari]

Update:

I got a second blood test on Monday to follow up on my high TSH level [slow thyroid], to rule out autoimmune disorders.

As I am not 100% certain from the results below if everything here is fine, I am saddened to report that I need to cancel my planned cycle.

Brother Matt, for goodness sake! The only certainty in life is that it comes to an end. And that's usually far sooner than you expect, too. Do you want to live life as a scared runt forever? YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT!! There's never going to be a perfect moment for the things you plan. JUST GET ON THE TREN NOW!

[Matt]

Brother Matt, for goodness sake! The only certainty in life is that it comes to an end. And that's usually far sooner than you expect, too. Do you want to live life as a scared runt forever? YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT!! There's never going to be a perfect moment for the things you plan. JUST GET ON THE TREN NOW!

Yes...I mean...well, NO. I don't want to...that's just what I've been doing, unfortunately. 

But you have motivated me to start my cycle again.

That being said...I wasn't thinking Tren.

Is there a particular reason why you recommend Tren?

[Mohammed Omari]

Yes...I mean...well, NO. I don't want to...that's just what I've been doing, unfortunately. 

But you have motivated me to start my cycle again.

That being said...I wasn't thinking Tren.

Is there a particular reason why you recommend Tren?

I'm glad to hear it. We've come too far now to get scared and chicken-out of a tiny, one-off cycle. The board is ready to witness the mutation. For me, Trenbolone was the game changer that helped me turn pro. The shrink-wrapped skin, the confidence, the cannonball delts - I was literally popping out of my dishdasha and turned heads wherever I went.

[Matt]

I'm glad to hear it. We've come too far now to get scared and chicken-out of a tiny, one-off cycle. The board is ready to witness the mutation. For me, Trenbolone was the game changer that helped me turn pro. The shrink-wrapped skin, the confidence, the cannonball delts - I was literally popping out of my dishdasha and turned heads wherever I went.

I've heard many good things about Tren...

The only drawback was that side effects seemed high, from some secondhand reports I heard.

Would you say that is correct, or does it just have a normal side effects profile?

[Matt]

Last post before bed - then I won't post anymore unless I shit or get off the pot.

Bad news: the mom of my ex-girlfriend from 2015 hated steroids. So, I don't know...I'm reconsidering...