Author Topic: Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce  (Read 3499933 times)

RocketSwitch625

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9675 on: October 12, 2006, 02:29:29 PM »
dorian was certainly not harder than Shawn in 1994 - dorian was much softer than usual that year. Hell, even his lower back filled in that year.



look at dorian compared to shawn.

Hopefully you are not naive enough to think that Dorian deserved his perfect scores over shawn that year...

Dorian's legs pwn Dillett's in the first pic (great vascularity too) and his arms look very good even though he was injured. Even his chest has clear striations. Dillett had that baby muscle look like Coleman.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9676 on: October 12, 2006, 02:33:24 PM »
dorian was certainly not harder than Shawn in 1994 - dorian was much softer than usual that year. Hell, even his lower back filled in that year.



look at dorian compared to shawn.

Hopefully you are not naive enough to think that Dorian deserved his perfect scores over shawn that year...

i dont know why dorian got a perfect score.  i dont know why the judges give someon a 5 vs. a 9.

that was dorian's worst year - look at what happened to ronnie when he got injured. yet he still lost.
dorian was not as hard as usual that year, but even then, that is still harder than just about anyone.  

like usual, dorian looked MUCH better on the video (which i think is on youtube) than some black and white pic scanned from a mag.  

shawn did not deserve to win.  yates was too big AND in good condition for shawn to win.  shawn just didnt have enough.  if yates was not hard or dry, then shawn would have probably won.  

i dont believe dorian got a perfect score that year.  
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IceCold

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9677 on: October 12, 2006, 02:48:59 PM »
Yates conditioning and size may have been enough to cause the judges to ignore his huge flaws and have him win against the much smaller and narrow Ray and Flex, but there is no way they would be ignored against the Lee Haney-like Peak Ronnie Coleman.

1991 would repeat itself all over again.


ray and flex were smaller and narrower, but what about nasser, paul and kevin, and fux?

their backs were not as good as dorian's but dorian's biceps/arms or even quads were not as good as theirs. 

are you saying it was just a back contest?

also, in 91 things were different.

yates weighed like 235 and haney was like 250.  yates still won the muscuarlity round.

haney won bc he weighed more while still being in great shape, posed/presentation better, and was the current mr. olympia.  ronnie would have zero of those advantages over dorian. 
R.I.P. DIMEBAG DARRELL ABBOTT (1966-2004)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9678 on: October 12, 2006, 02:53:33 PM »
Yates conditioning and size may have been enough to cause the judges to ignore his huge flaws.


you are confused and you are phrasing it wrong.

its not that the judges ignored dorian's flaws, its that his strength's overpowered any weaknesses. 

your claim of "flawed judging" lack logic.

you say bc yates was the biggest, but he wasnt.  nasser, paul, fux, lou, ian harrison, were bigger than dorian. 

so now, are you saying that its a contest of who is the biggest WITH the best back?

but why back and not bicpes or quads?
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RocketSwitch625

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9679 on: October 12, 2006, 03:29:41 PM »


Ronnie Coleman will forever be remembered as a laughing stock.

As well as the most minging bodybuilder ever.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9680 on: October 12, 2006, 03:34:21 PM »









and it only took yates 3 pro shows to start. how many till ronnie finally was good enough to win his first?

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9681 on: October 12, 2006, 03:36:14 PM »
Hulkster and pumpsters logic is laughable , they both don't personally like Dorian's physique so according to pumpster he's " B tier " and according to Hulkster " The most overrated bodybuilder of all time. "

Okay how do they come to their conclusions? pumpster's claim his Dorian was handpicked by the Weiders because he was white and for commercial purposes , and boy did they pick the ideal candidate a unknown homely working-class bodybuilder from the mecca of bodybuilding Birmhingham England and to top it off he was a skinhead in his teenage years

And boy for commerical purposes they couldn't have picked a more ideal candidate , thank goodness they overlooked Lee Labrada , the handsome faimly man who is very articulate with a classic physique and a college degree in engineering , and a physique that had mass-market appeal and seemed attainable at just 180lbs

Shawn Ray was another one who like Labrada was wisely overlooked young , clean-cut , good looking very well spoken a phsyique that the average gym-goer could look at as ' attainable ' a well rounded good spokesman for the sport , yes those Weiders certainly had a plan

And Hulkster he thinks he has it all figured out , he alone has come to the conclusion that Dorian Yates is the most overrated bodybuilder of all time..........let me repeat that again , Dorian isn't just an overrated bodybuilder , he is the most overrated bodybuilder of all time !! and how did the internet-fan come to this conclusion? because he was so great that actually means he's really not great at all , because he dominated the sport like NO other bodybuilder

through deductive reasoning and Hulkster-logic he came up with that gem , he was aided with magazine scans and compressed video and has never seen a professional bodybuilding contest live and in person , his method of proving Yates is the most overrated bodybuilder of all time , was to totaly ignore the judges score cards in which Dorian recieved almost straight firsts in every single one of his Olympia wins , the judges only picked him afterall because of his back , he also tested his theory by posting the worse scans of Dorian to the best digital photographs of Ronnie from a professional studio lay-out

Hulkster already said facts & figures don't mean anything , contest are visual and its plainly evident to the biased eye without ever seeing Dorian live in person that he was clearly overrated and he was owned by Lee Labrada at the 1992 Mr Olympia , by Flex Wheeler at the 1993 , Shawn Ray in 94/96 and Nasser 95/97 he really didn't deserve to win ANY Mr Olympia titles

Forget the fact that the contests are judged by 12 different judges and their high & low scores are tossed out to dicourage favortism and bias and all unamiously came to the same conclusion that Dorian was leaps & bounds above his contemporaries , what do they know anyway? Hulkster who never knew what the judging criteria was and insited Ronnie would easily beat Dorian because of his superior " X-frame " and his superior " V-taper " and because he has more striations on his ass

These are the genius' we're dealing with , they alone have figured out and are now preaching their gospel to the masses , who needs facts & figures when you have blind faith?

NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9682 on: October 12, 2006, 03:56:40 PM »
and it only took yates 3 pro shows to start. how many till ronnie finally was good enough to win his first?

At what age did Dorian retire? ;)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9683 on: October 12, 2006, 03:58:57 PM »
At what age did Dorian retire? ;)

exactly. Dorian was a flash in the pan compared to King Ron


 :-*
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9684 on: October 12, 2006, 04:04:21 PM »
It's a good thing Dorian called it quits when he did b/c he would be no match for prime Ronnie. ;D




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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9685 on: October 12, 2006, 04:07:25 PM »
It's a good thing Dorian called it quits when he did b/c he would be no match for prime Ronnie. ;D


2003 is NOT Ronnie's prime not by a long shot and Dorian retired undefeated  ;)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9686 on: October 12, 2006, 04:18:07 PM »
2003 is NOT Ronnie's prime not by a long shot and Dorian retired undefeated

I consider 2003 Ronnie's prime b/c he set a standard that has yet to be matched (and probably never will). Although he wasn't at his best conditioning, his muscularity made everyone else look like amateurs. Nobody stood a chance.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9687 on: October 12, 2006, 04:21:28 PM »
I consider 2003 Ronnie's prime b/c he set a standard that has yet to be matched (and probably never will). Although he wasn't at his best conditioning, his muscularity made everyone else look like amateurs. Nobody stood a chance.

Oh yes look at the quality feild he faced a flat Jay Cutler and a small Dexter Jackson WOW  ::) he also looked like a woman in third-trimester

NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9688 on: October 12, 2006, 04:29:51 PM »
Oh yes look at the quality feild he faced a flat Jay Cutler and a small Dexter Jackson WOW  ::) he also looked like a woman in third-trimester

Even if 03 Ronnie competed against a prime Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler, Nasser or Paul Dillet, none of them would stand a chance. You think 5' 6" Shawn Ray would give Ronnie a challenge? Or how about 220 lb Flex Wheeler? Do you really believe Nasser or Paul Dillet with their missing backs would stand a chance? You keep talking about the difference in quality of competitors. If none of them could beat Dorian, what makes you think they would stand a chance to a 287 lb Ronnie?

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9689 on: October 12, 2006, 04:37:27 PM »
Even if 03 Ronnie competed against a prime Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler, Nasser or Paul Dillet, none of them would stand a chance. You think 5' 6" Shawn Ray would give Ronnie a challenge? Or how about 220 lb Flex Wheeler? Do you really believe Nasser or Paul Dillet with their missing backs would stand a chance? You keep talking about the difference in quality of competitors. If none of them could beat Dorian, what makes you think they would stand a chance to a 287 lb Ronnie?

You just mentioned people who all BEAT Ronnie Coleman while not as heavy was he was in 03 beat him none the less and Flex consistantly beat Ronnie when he was much sharper so it may be a case of apples vs oranges


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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9690 on: October 12, 2006, 04:37:58 PM »
Ronnie was his all-time best 18 days out of the 2002O @ 275lbs. It would have been a good "pre-contest" battle between that version of Ronnie and Dorian's 93 B/W 3 weeks out.


NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9691 on: October 12, 2006, 04:48:59 PM »
You just mentioned people who all BEAT Ronnie Coleman while not as heavy was he was in 03 beat him none the less and Flex consistantly beat Ronnie when he was much sharper so it may be a case of apples vs oranges

that's the reason I said 03 was Ronnie's prime - apples vs oranges. I personally feel his best was 99, but what I think looks better and what would actually win in a contest are different. I prefer the physiques of Samir Bannout, Shawn Ray, and Lee Haney. However, bodybuilding seems to place greater emphasis on size. I feel that under current judging criteria, nobody stands a chance to Ronnie in 03.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9692 on: October 12, 2006, 05:19:42 PM »
How about this legitimate comparison between Ronnie Coleman and the 2006 Ms Pregnant Olympia champion?

Ronnie only needs to bring up his stomach by a quarter of an inch in order to be more competitive. But he shouldn't have any trouble taking the pregnant ladies title next year. Good luck to him.

Hulkster & Pumpster know it makes sense.





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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9693 on: October 12, 2006, 06:14:06 PM »
  Hulky, read carefully my definition of muscularity, before you post your bullshit again. Do the board this favor. ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE



right. that is YOUR defintion. It does not mean it is correct.

the term "muscularity" refers to all attributes of the muscles themselves, one of which, is shape.

because if you look up the proper definition of muscularity, it refers to "well developed muscles or the degree of development".

Even you have to agree that ugly, mis-shapen muscles are NOT "well developed".

I'll accept your apologies now :)
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pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9694 on: October 12, 2006, 06:19:38 PM »
right. that is YOUR defintion. It does not mean it is correct.

the term "muscularity" refers to all attributes of the muscles themselves, one of which, is shape.

because if you look up the proper definition of muscularity, it refers to "well developed muscles or the degree of development".

Even you have to agree that ugly, mis-shapen muscles are NOT "well developed".

I'll accept your apologies now :)


I'm sorry. You are an idiot.

Muscle shape is genetic, there is nothing that can be done about it. That doesn't mean someone doesn't have developed muscles ::)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9695 on: October 12, 2006, 06:22:31 PM »
Hulkster and pumpsters logic is laughable , they both don't personally like Dorian's physique so according to pumpster he's " B tier " and according to Hulkster " The most overrated bodybuilder of all time. "

Okay how do they come to their conclusions? pumpster's claim his Dorian was handpicked by the Weiders because he was white and for commercial purposes , and boy did they pick the ideal candidate a unknown homely working-class bodybuilder from the mecca of bodybuilding Birmhingham England and to top it off he was a skinhead in his teenage years

And boy for commerical purposes they couldn't have picked a more ideal candidate , thank goodness they overlooked Lee Labrada , the handsome faimly man who is very articulate with a classic physique and a college degree in engineering , and a physique that had mass-market appeal and seemed attainable at just 180lbs

Shawn Ray was another one who like Labrada was wisely overlooked young , clean-cut , good looking very well spoken a phsyique that the average gym-goer could look at as ' attainable ' a well rounded good spokesman for the sport , yes those Weiders certainly had a plan

And Hulkster he thinks he has it all figured out , he alone has come to the conclusion that Dorian Yates is the most overrated bodybuilder of all time..........let me repeat that again , Dorian isn't just an overrated bodybuilder , he is the most overrated bodybuilder of all time !! and how did the internet-fan come to this conclusion? because he was so great that actually means he's really not great at all , because he dominated the sport like NO other bodybuilder

through deductive reasoning and Hulkster-logic he came up with that gem , he was aided with magazine scans and compressed video and has never seen a professional bodybuilding contest live and in person , his method of proving Yates is the most overrated bodybuilder of all time , was to totaly ignore the judges score cards in which Dorian recieved almost straight firsts in every single one of his Olympia wins , the judges only picked him afterall because of his back , he also tested his theory by posting the worse scans of Dorian to the best digital photographs of Ronnie from a professional studio lay-out

Hulkster already said facts & figures don't mean anything , contest are visual and its plainly evident to the biased eye without ever seeing Dorian live in person that he was clearly overrated and he was owned by Lee Labrada at the 1992 Mr Olympia , by Flex Wheeler at the 1993 , Shawn Ray in 94/96 and Nasser 95/97 he really didn't deserve to win ANY Mr Olympia titles

Forget the fact that the contests are judged by 12 different judges and their high & low scores are tossed out to dicourage favortism and bias and all unamiously came to the same conclusion that Dorian was leaps & bounds above his contemporaries , what do they know anyway? Hulkster who never knew what the judging criteria was and insited Ronnie would easily beat Dorian because of his superior " X-frame " and his superior " V-taper " and because he has more striations on his ass

These are the genius' we're dealing with , they alone have figured out and are now preaching their gospel to the masses , who needs facts & figures when you have blind faith?

LOL ND you are a moron.

You go on about how I 'came to the conclusion" yet YOU have yet to answer to how you can IGNORE all the flaws Yates has and still maintain he was so perfect enough to get such devine scores.

Secondly, Mr. "Yates has better Arms Than Ronnie", my assertion that he was overrated has pretty much been accepted by most people who had read this thead.

Wether he was the MOST overrated ever is debatable, but given that he won 6 Mr. O's with such incredible scores, given that most NATIONAL level competitors had better arms and quads and striations, makes it highly likely.

Oh, and 12 different judges my ass.

just ask Mr. Shawn Ray about that one..same judges for years and years.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9696 on: October 12, 2006, 06:28:24 PM »
I'm sorry. You are an idiot.

Muscle shape is genetic, there is nothing that can be done about it. That doesn't mean someone doesn't have developed muscles ::)

absolutely right - I never said you could radically change your muscle shape. The biceps is about the only one (eg. compare early and later shots of franco's biceps - he mananged to decrease the gap in between his bis and his elbow and heighten his peak)

but bodybuilding does not care whether or not you could improve your muscle shape or not.

all bodybuilding does is judge the muscles at their face value.

So, big ugly mis-shapen muscles are developed.

but they are not necessarily well-developed - thats where your genetic predisposition for shape comes into play.

there is a crucial distinction that you are missing.

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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9697 on: October 12, 2006, 07:03:00 PM »
LOL ND you are a moron.

You go on about how I 'came to the conclusion" yet YOU have yet to answer to how you can IGNORE all the flaws Yates has and still maintain he was so perfect enough to get such devine scores.

Secondly, Mr. "Yates has better Arms Than Ronnie", my assertion that he was overrated has pretty much been accepted by most people who had read this thead.

Wether he was the MOST overrated ever is debatable, but given that he won 6 Mr. O's with such incredible scores, given that most NATIONAL level competitors had better arms and quads and striations, makes it highly likely.

Oh, and 12 different judges my ass.

just ask Mr. Shawn Ray about that one..same judges for years and years.



You want to know how Dorian recieved almost perfect scores? a few reasons he was the biggest and best conditioned man in the show , its easy to be shredded at 200lbs but extremely hard to be totaly dry at 260lbs key word totaly dry

Ronnie 1998 was totally dry at 249lbs and had excellent size a great combo which in my opinion he hasn't been able to replicate with maybe the exception of the 2001 ASC , in 1999 he was fuller at 257lbs but he wasn't as dry but not that far off , the heavier Ronnie got the more his conditioning suffered , mind you he could still be somewhat dry in areas of his body and still carrying excess water in others , his arms are always dry and well defined no matter what weight it is but the heavier he gets the more water he retains in his torso and legs

Dorian on the other hand even at high bodyweight never had a problem with excess water he was extremely dry at 239lbs when he competed with Haney and just as dry at 257lbs and as high as 270lbs in 1997 , in 1997 his problem was a big gut and torn muscles NOT conditioning , Dorian has had clearly visable abdominals and x-mas tree at 300lbs !!

Dorian does have flaws no doubt but you're melodramatic in stating them at his best besides thick obliques when totaly relaxed , but all his flaws are minimized at his best , you claim NO Arms its nonsense , same with the smooth quads , Dorian did have oddly shaped upper quad seperation but NOT to the point of it being a liability reguardless of what you think

Dorian has a great muscle balance & proportion , he simply looks better in most of the mandatory poses , while looking better from the sides and the back compared to the front , when he hits the mandatory poses he simply looks better than most other people ( at his best ) the front double biceps pose isn't a really strong pose for him ( the 93 B&Ws is the exception ) but he owns the front latspread and the abdominal & thigh , he simply owns the side chest , side triceps , his back double biceps is great despite the lack of highpeaked biceps , and his rear latspread is outstanding

You keep trying to hold Yates to your interpretation of what the criteria is and what you find desireable & should be awarded , that doesn't apply to Yates , Dorian never won because of aesthetics , he won because he was the biggest ,the densest , the best conditioned and most proportionate , he simply looked better in most of the mandatory poses , so just because you don't get it the judges did and they decide who wins and who doesn't

And your assesment that he being the most overrated is debatable is laughable and you're trying to get out of that statement because even you realize how absurd it is !! its not debateable in the least and for you to even mention it still shows your ignorance , and again you make baseless claims like

Quote
Secondly, Mr. "Yates has better Arms Than Ronnie", my assertion that he was overrated has pretty much been accepted by most people who had read this thead.

again you love to cling to this theory that if a lot of people agree with you then that means you're all somehow right , you tell me I rely on numbers but its YOU who seeks comfort in numbers , biased opinions don't mean anything when confronted by 6 years of almost perfect scores by the opinions of the people who matter the JUDGES not by ignorant fans

And Shawn complained about the judges when things didn't go his way ( something Lee Labrada never did ) Shawn was in the sport at the wrong time ( same with Labrada ) one part of the criteria is muscular bulk and when confronted with men weighing 50 -100lbs more than his his lack of muscular bulk and stature were a liability , should it hacve been? who knows but lets comment on what was and NOT what some would have liked it to be 


So you're still ignorant to the judging criteria , still ignorant to Yates greatness and still stuck on stupid but thank God you have me here to constantly correct you.  ;)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9698 on: October 12, 2006, 07:35:46 PM »
Ronnie would get utterly dwarfed by 2003 Ronnie.

true but he would still lose 8)


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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9699 on: October 12, 2006, 09:19:59 PM »
Quote
It's a good thing Dorian called it quits when he did b/c he would be no match for prime Ronnie
He was clearly intimidated into a forced retirement. No coincidence concerning the timing of the exit.  ;D