Vince Basile?

[Vince B]

I think this thread has gone down the toilet. I agree with VG about the music on Mike's site. Is Cheri like this in the gym? I think more people should train longer in the gym instead of flexing online.

[Original Sin]

I think this thread has gone down the toilet. I agree with VG about the music on Mike's site. Is Cheri like this in the gym? I think more people should train longer in the gym instead of flexing online.

And the sack, lucky Mike

[Hedgehog]

piece of you BLA HAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH hahahahahahahah!!
i have gotten props on the website at BB shows and in the gym
here vince take a piece of this ............

(fyi in all modesty you couldn't carry my gym bag)

I'm pretty certain that Goodrum in his current form will equal or beat that.

No offence, you look good mang.

And funny with the gym bag thrash talk comment.

YIP
Zack

[xpac2]

Oil gives my protein shakes a nutty flavor

I bet you like that

[jwb]

Vince G should throw away all his potions except a multi vit/min and start EATING right to get into shape.

1. small meals
2. frequent meals - 3 hours apart - 5-6 per day no snacking
3. balanced meals - one serve each of a protein (low fat), Carb (unrefined) & Fibrous (salad/vegetables)
4. Plenty of H20

300 grams of protein per day is crazy for the level of lean tissue he is carrying - it is just turning to fat

[danielson]

Vince G should throw away all his potions except a multi vit/min and start EATING right to get into shape.

1. small meals
2. frequent meals - 3 hours apart - 5-6 per day no snacking
3. balanced meals - one serve each of a protein (low fat), Carb (unrefined) & Fibrous (salad/vegetables)
4. Plenty of H20

300 grams of protein per day is crazy for the level of lean tissue he is carrying - it is just turning to fat

I think he looks great. I wish he would post more pics.

[Laura Lee]

I think this thread has gone down the toilet. I agree with VG about the music on Mike's site. Is Cheri like this in the gym? I think more people should train longer in the gym instead of flexing online.

Excuse me Mr. Basile, but what exactly are you doing in your Avatar??

[Laura Lee]

And the sack, lucky Mike

I think I know you. 

[bic_staedtler]

...Vince, I read the first 2 pages where Arvilla looked to diss but finally showed props.  I stopped reading after that, but I saw your pics from back in the day...which leads me to ask...

How much crank did you use?  I mean that in all honesty...certainly by the seventies title holders were using steroids.  I know your stance on the drugs, and if you didn't use any so be it. 

If not, we have a great pic of what a drug free bodybuilder with good genetics can hope to achieve.  If not, then perhaps you could tell us a bit about what drugs were required to achieve that build.

?

[J. Chimpo]

...Vince, I read the first 2 pages where Arvilla looked to diss but finally showed props.  I stopped reading after that, but I saw your pics from back in the day...which leads me to ask...

How much crank did you use?  I mean that in all honesty...certainly by the seventies title holders were using steroids.  I know your stance on the drugs, and if you didn't use any so be it. 

If not, we have a great pic of what a drug free bodybuilder with good genetics can hope to achieve.  If not, then perhaps you could tell us a bit about what drugs were required to achieve that build.

?

Yeah this should be intresting, seeing how he goes back on a already accepted apology from Arvilla I bet there was some strong "stuff" in those days.

[Vince B]

I used two Dianabol tablets a day for 3 months before the Mr Canada contest. I doubt I could have won that year without them. The change wasn't marked but I ended up with 17 1/4 cold arms and calves for that contest and could pump them up at least an inch. I tried Dianabol in 1975 before the Mr Australia. That was for a few months prior to the show. I tried Dianabol again in 1977 for a short time (2 tablets per day) and got a bit stronger but not much bigger. I wasn't interested in using Deca or anything else. I was drug free from January 1959 until March 1970. I wish I could say I never used anything but that would be a lie. I never got any side effects which was good but I have no need to use them anymore. I trained my arms and calves hard for a month when I was 58 and put an inch on my arms and calves in that month and got both measurements over 18 inches cold. I now know I can get much bigger than I did in the past and drug and supplement free. I honestly wonder if anyone has won a major contest since 1970 clean. Guys were using in the 1960s but I considered it cheating. In those days there was no testing or rules against them and to tell the truth most of us were a bit afraid of side effects and possible cancers to even consider using them. Guys like Arnold denied using them until many years later. Those who did know about the anabolics kept that information in their inner circle so it was difficult finding any information about them. Look at what that small beginning has led to. I doubt any Mr Olympia was drug free. I haven't heard any claim that they were. We didn't see gynocomastia in the champions until much later. It was commonplace after Haney's reign as Mr Olympia. I still believe that bodybuilding would be more acceptable if there were no drugs allowed or used. There is no way I would even use or endorse what I read some of the top pros are using today to compete.

[sarcasm]

I think this thread has gone down the toilet. I agree with VG about the music on Mike's site. Is Cheri like this in the gym? I think more people should train longer in the gym instead of flexing online.

hahaha, ok Vince, i'll bet you're the type of guy who drives down the road wearing a NPC string tank top, daisy dukes, thick socks and unscuffed construction boots and sees a big trailer being driven down the road with a truck in front of it saying OVERSIZED LOAD and you pull up next to the truck and yell "i see your sign says OVERSIZED LOAD well why don't you pull over and whip out that snake and prove it stud!!" hahahahaha, what a penis puffer.

[Mars]

Haha yes that's exactly the type i was striking Vince for.

[gatrainer]

I used two Dianabol tablets a day for 3 months before the Mr Canada contest. I doubt I could have won that year without them. The change wasn't marked but I ended up with 17 1/4 cold arms and calves for that contest and could pump them up at least an inch. I tried Dianabol in 1975 before the Mr Australia. That was for a few months prior to the show. I tried Dianabol again in 1977 for a short time (2 tablets per day) and got a bit stronger but not much bigger. I wasn't interested in using Deca or anything else. I was drug free from January 1959 until March 1970. I wish I could say I never used anything but that would be a lie. I never got any side effects which was good but I have no need to use them anymore. I trained my arms and calves hard for a month when I was 58 and put an inch on my arms and calves in that month and got both measurements over 18 inches cold. I now know I can get much bigger than I did in the past and drug and supplement free. I honestly wonder if anyone has won a major contest since 1970 clean. Guys were using in the 1960s but I considered it cheating. In those days there was no testing or rules against them and to tell the truth most of us were a bit afraid of side effects and possible cancers to even consider using them. Guys like Arnold denied using them until many years later. Those who did know about the anabolics kept that information in their inner circle so it was difficult finding any information about them. Look at what that small beginning has led to. I doubt any Mr Olympia was drug free. I haven't heard any claim that they were. We didn't see gynocomastia in the champions until much later. It was commonplace after Haney's reign as Mr Olympia. I still believe that bodybuilding would be more acceptable if there were no drugs allowed or used. There is no way I would even use or endorse what I read some of the top pros are using today to compete.

Vince,,, they do have bodybuilding contests for Natural Athletes.....those are the shows that nobody goes to.

[gatrainer]

hahaha, ok Vince, i'll bet you're the type of guy who drives down the road wearing a NPC string tank top, daisy dukes, thick socks and unscuffed construction boots and sees a big trailer being driven down the road with a truck in front of it saying OVERSIZED LOAD and you pull up next to the truck and yell "i see your sign says OVERSIZED LOAD well why don't you pull over and whip out that snake and prove it stud!!" hahahahaha, what a penis puffer.

and then adds...."Hey...I bet you my gym that I can Pinch more than you". 
Is that true Vince the "Pinch"?

[bic_staedtler]

Thanks for the candid answer Vince. 

But by tinkering around with Dianabol, why didn't you move on to other types?  Even though the info on them was tough to come by, I'm sure you could have had them prescribed just like everybody else in those days.

As far as side effects go, I had a buddy who did some Dbols, much like you did....but Dbols alone do not a cycle make.  He did end up with sides, mainly hair loss and water bloat. 

Vince, as you can see, drugs have been around since YOU won your titles, and that's saying something.  So how can you expect anybody to think that the 'sport' today would be more accepted and so on without them?  Anyone can see how today's freaks are NO way going to be public heroes, but what I'm trying to say is that this 'golden age' of bodybuilding that you and others tell us about seems like it never was.  Mainly due to the fact that drugs have ALWAYS been a factor in pro bodybuilding, at least what we're used to seeing today. 

It's like people talking bout the good ol' days...fact is, there WERE no good ol' days and you know it.  Sure it might have been a different playing field and set of rules for bodybuilding, and that's what we should fight for, but I truly don't think that taking drugs out of the equation and going to compete naturally will do pro bb'ing any better.

I've seen some pretty well developed swimmers lately who don't even lift weights and look about on par with the 'natural' bodybuilders I've seen...mind you they don't shave and tan and oil up in posing trunks but you get my point.

If the general public can't handle the way the sport is today, then maybe you should seek to change your gym to a pool...people will get healthy (much like natural bodybuilding) and they'll have a physique that many people today seem to find appealing.  Because competitive bodybuilding is a lost cause for you, and the message is lost...not because your message isn't clear, but because the message stems from a lie in itself:  the ONLY time bodybuilding didn't have drugs was the time of Reeves and a few others....a time SO long ago that NOBODY today growing up will be able to relate to it.   It just seems like you're pissing in the wind with your stories...not that I mind hearing them, I'm a big bodybuilding fan obviously, with respect (but common sense) regarding the golden fleece we know as "the golden age" of bodybuilding.

[Big N]

Im just kidding!

Vince looks great for his age

you serious? 

[Vince B]

The rules for bodybuilding have changed over the years just as they have for other sports. 35 years ago they did not test for steroids in most sports. What has happened since those days is that Olympic sports do require testing but many sports such as bodybuilding do not. I exclude the natural contests here. The IFBB is against doping but do not test at the professional level. The result is rampant drug use and a dangerous playing field for anyone who wants to be Mr Olympia. Those of us who did use some drugs in the past did so with some guilt and have regrets. However, it is probably true that if we did not use we would not have won those titles and others who were using would have won. There was very little information in the scientific literature about steroids so it was foolhardy to experiment with dangerous protocols. There are some bodybuilders who do not like to take anything via injections. In the 1970s various drugs were used by the champions and perhaps they shared information with each other re doses and frequency. There were also some medical people involved prescribing those drugs to bodybuilders. Using those drugs has always been a clandestine activity and most users keep their activity private.

It is clear to me that all drugs should be banned and we should be doing more research to find out more effective and safe ways to augment the hypertrophy process. Surely enough top bodybuilders have died at young ages to suggest those drugs are not safe. If the IFBB has rules and do not enforce those rules then what message does that send to everyone?

Those who want to get bigger muscles can do so naturally and that is what everyone should continue to do. If you have to use dangerous levels of substances to achieve a title then those titles have little meaning. The public feel, rightly, that professional bodybuilders cheat and therefore they do not respect the achievements because they attribute some of the success to drugs and not training.

I suppose it is not only bodybuilding that has this problem. We are finding high profile athletes in many sports testing positive for drugs. We wonder how many do not get caught or use agents to mask usage.

If obvious side effects such as gynocomastia are pronounced and almost universal in male bodybuilders what does that do for the sport? I honestly believe things have gone too far and an unhealthy mindset is present. It is lunacy to think that those drug protocols are not doing damage to the body. No trophy is worth taking that risk. I also acknowledge that the danger of some steroids has been overstated and we really need some perspective and intelligence back in this sport. If we look at what has happened to the female bodybuilders we have to shake our heads because that is not something that many would approve of.

[Van_Bilderass]

It is clear to me that all drugs should be banned and we should be doing more research to find out more effective and safe ways to augment the hypertrophy process.

Here's the cold hard facts: there is NOTHING new under the sun as far as training and diet that will make a big difference in the development of a bodybuilder. So unless you mean we should research for safe DRUGS your comment makes no sense. But I know you think there is some esoteric way to train that will make a radical difference but it's ridiculous - we KNOW what makes a muscle grow as far as diet and training. It doesn't really need to be researched any more.

[onlyme]

The biggest difference from today and yesteryear are the drugs.  Mainly the GH.  We actually trained harder back in the 70's and 80's cause it had to be done.  The results weren't as easy to get as they are today with the superior drugs.

[Vince B]

I know we all make conjectures about what contributes to muscle growth. That is not the same as having scientific proof. We may be right in our conjectures, partly right, or wrong. I doubt most of us believe we are mistaken about our beliefs.

The research into muscles is revealing more every month. However, I still haven't seen much relevant maximum hypertrophy research that would help bodybuilders.

If scientists can come up with a safe hormone I imagine it would be used like people take vitamins.

It is my belief that not all protocols have been tried in bodybuilding. I have made statements about soreness that are not at all what the literature reveals. It seems to me that some things have not been explored as far as maximizing hypertrophy goes. The drug culture is so pervasive that no one knows what is responsible for growth anymore. It is interesting that Mr Olympia seems to be stronger than the others.

I agree with Keith about what most will do when it comes to bodybuilding and shortcuts seem to be the rule rather than the exception. What we need is for one person to come along and demonstrate the superiority of being huge without any drug use. It should be obvious by the lack of side effects and a different look to the body. The drug use is so far outside science that studies on humans using those dangerous protocols cannot occur because they would be rejected by ethics boards in universities. No one could afford the litigation of anyone who got ill from an experiment using high levels of drugs. I guess we will never know the contribution of training and drugs to growth. Reason and sense have disappeared from professional bodybuilding as evidenced by this thread where the people's choice confirms that no one is doing anything about those drugs.

[Van_Bilderass]

I know we all make conjectures about what contributes to muscle growth. That is not the same as having scientific proof. We may be right in our conjectures, partly right, or wrong. I doubt most of us believe we are mistaken about our beliefs.

The research into muscles is revealing more every month. However, I still haven't seen much relevant maximum hypertrophy research that would help bodybuilders.

It is my belief that not all protocols have been tried in bodybuilding. I have made statements about soreness that are not at all what the literature reveals. It seems to me that some things have not been explored as far as maximizing hypertrophy goes. The drug culture is so pervasive that no one knows what is responsible for growth anymore. It is interesting that Mr Olympia seems to be stronger than the others.

All that is left to learn about weight training for hypertrophy is minutiae. It will not change how we train fundamentally. There are only so many ways you can lift a dumbell or barbell, it has all been tried before. Additional knowledge about the mechanisms that induce hypertrophy (minutiae at most) will not change the approximate levels of muscularity that can be achieved by a drug free lifter.

[Vince B]

Van Bilderass. Your statements sound reasonable but are probably false. The technology of hypertrophy has a long way to go. The scientists are not interested in maximum human hypertrophy so have no clue about what that involves. They can extrapolate from animal experiments but that is not solid science and the conclusions for humans might not be valid.

What I see in my gym is most people wasting their time and staying the same. Oh, they would insist they know what they are doing and are training hard. They are not growing, or are growing imperceptively. I think it is possible to grow rapidly and continuously. No drugs are required. Of course if some actually believe this is not possible then they will hardly be looking for ways to achieve such growth.

You are right about one thing. Most people train ineffectively and inefficiently.

[sarcasm]

Van Bilderass. Your statements sound reasonable but are probably false. The technology of hypertrophy has a long way to go. The scientists are not interested in maximum human hypertrophy so have no clue about what that involves. They can extrapolate from animal experiments but that is not solid science and the conclusions for humans might not be valid.

What I see in my gym is most people wasting their time and staying the same. Oh, they would insist they know what they are doing and are training hard. They are not growing, or are growing imperceptively. I think it is possible to grow rapidly and continuously. No drugs are required. Of course if some actually believe this is not possible then they will hardly be looking for ways to achieve such growth.

You are right about one thing. Most people train ineffectively and inefficiently.

and you do know how to grow and get huge? if that's the case why aren't you big and ripped?

[dr.chimps]

Van Bilderass. Your statements sound reasonable but are probably false. The technology of hypertrophy has a long way to go. The scientists are not interested in maximum human hypertrophy so have no clue about what that involves. They can extrapolate from animal experiments but that is not solid science and the conclusions for humans might not be valid.

You are right about one thing. Most people train ineffectively and inefficiently.

You've mentioned this several times, Vince. I believe you. And here's a question in return. Why should they? Except, perhaps, in cases involving,muscular dystrophy or other 'medical' instances why should scientists waste their time, lab resources, their reputations so that gym rats like ourselves can build bigger muscles? It just seems that with so many real problems facing us these days, finding ways to 'maxim[ize]mum human hypertrophy' should not be one of them. Maybe you can explain a bit further.