Author Topic: Abortion Fight Shifts to Neb. After Tiller Death (Read 16272 times)

Straw Man · « **Reply #75 on:** August 30, 2009, 04:58:16 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 30, 2009, 04:54:05 PM

you cannot logically give a choice to the women and not give a choice to the man.

what choice do you think the man should get?

Deedee · « **Reply #76 on:** August 30, 2009, 04:58:57 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 30, 2009, 04:48:16 PM

I NEVER SAID OR IMPLIED SUCH THINGS

you see skip this is what im talking about right here bro

No the women still has a choice how am i in any way saying the women should not have a choice?

You THINK you say women should have choices, but that's exactly the opposite of what you're saying.

According to the majority of posts on here, 50% of the pop is against abortion. People were happy Tiller got his head blasted off. Far as I know you are against abortion.

So, for those 50% pop morally opposed to abortion who get pregnant, if the man wants to walk away, basically the woman is on her own. Yeah, EXACTLY what you propose is that men should not have to take responsibility for their actions.

tonymctones · « **Reply #77 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:00:21 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 30, 2009, 04:58:16 PM

what choice do you think the man should get?

first agree to that premise.

tonymctones · « **Reply #78 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:02:46 PM »

Quote from: Deedee on August 30, 2009, 04:58:57 PM

You THINK you say women should have choices, but that's exactly the opposite of what you're saying.

According to the majority of posts on here, 50% of the pop is against abortion. People were happy Tiller got his head blasted off. Far as I know you are against abortion.

So, for those 50% pop morally opposed to abortion who get pregnant, if the man wants to walk away, basically the woman is on her own. Yeah, EXACTLY what you propose is that men should not have to take responsibility for their actions.

LOL women already have that right, why not the man? ya again seems really fair

how am i saying that women shouldnt have a choice?

Deedee · « **Reply #79 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:13:56 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 30, 2009, 05:02:46 PM

LOL women already have that right, why not the man? ya again seems really fair

how am i saying that women shouldnt have a choice?

People who are morally opposed to abortion don't have them. Period. You don't even want women to have the right to abortion, so I'm surprised you're even talking about it. The Bush regime made it harder for women to get them, even raped women. You should be thrilled people have their babies.

Point being, for the people who are morally opposed, according to your plan the woman should be required to take on ALL the responsibility. Or be forced into a medical procedure she doesn't want. You say you don't approve of forced abortion, so it comes down to you think men should be relieved of all responsibility whenever they wish, no matter the situation.

How is what I've extrapolated from your unfairness outrage, wrong in any way?

tonymctones · « **Reply #80 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:23:01 PM »

Quote from: Deedee on August 30, 2009, 05:13:56 PM

People who are morally opposed to abortion don't have them. Period. You don't even want women to have the right to abortion, so I'm surprised you're even talking about it. The Bush regime made it harder for women to get them, even raped women. You should be thrilled people have their babies.

Point being, for the people who are morally opposed, according to your plan the woman should be required to take on ALL the responsibility. Or be forced into a medical procedure she doesn't want. You say you don't approve of forced abortion, so it comes down to you think men should be relieved of all responsibility whenever they wish, no matter the situation.

How is what I've extrapolated from your unfairness outrage, wrong in any way?

LOL again you see this skip this is what im talking about bro

My arguement has nothing to do with the morality of abortion your going off on a tangent, it has to do with fairness and equal rights.

it doesnt matter what one person thinks right now or their moral beliefs

the law is unfair and thats my point i understand your point but since the law deems that a women has a choice the women will have a choice regardless of whether a man has a choice or not.

If you want to do away with abortion all together to alleviate the unfairness of the situation then fine thats another idea. Im not advocating for or against abortion on this issue dee get that CLEAR Im arguing the unfairness under the law and what needs to be addressed.

Straw Man · « **Reply #81 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:26:27 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 30, 2009, 05:00:21 PM

first agree to that premise.

what premise are you referring to?

put it in your own words and I will tell you if I agree or not

tonymctones · « **Reply #82 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:27:02 PM »

I am personally against abortion dee but that has no bearing on this issue if your going to give the choice to one logically you must give the choice to the other.

the morality of abortion doesnt come into play here dee simply fairness under the law.

tonymctones · « **Reply #83 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:28:55 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 30, 2009, 05:26:27 PM

what premise are you referring to?

put it in your own words and I will tell you if I agree or not

those are my words wtf you think im copying and pasting over here

logically you cannot give the women the right to walk away and not give the man the right to walk away?

again take out the financial burden etc and focus simply on this issue.

Straw Man · « **Reply #84 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:30:55 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 30, 2009, 05:28:55 PM

those are my words wtf you think im copying and pasting over here

logically you cannot give the women the right to walk away and not give the man the right to walk away?

again take out the financial burden etc and focus simply on this issue.

ok

so you're saying the man get's the right to "walk away"

is that it?

tonymctones · « **Reply #85 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:32:09 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 30, 2009, 05:30:55 PM

ok

so you're saying the man get's the right to "walk away"

is that it?

im saying that its not fair to give the women that right and not the man

do you agree or disagree?

Deedee · « **Reply #86 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:36:06 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 30, 2009, 05:23:01 PM

LOL again you see this skip this is what im talking about bro

My arguement has nothing to do with the morality of abortion your going off on a tangent, it has to do with fairness and equal rights.

it doesnt matter what one person thinks right now or their moral beliefs

the law is unfair and thats my point i understand your point but since the law deems that a women has a choice the women will have a choice regardless of whether a man has a choice or not.

If you want to do away with abortion all together to alleviate the unfairness of the situation then fine thats another idea. Im not advocating for or against abortion on this issue dee get that CLEAR Im arguing the unfairness under the law and what needs to be addressed.

You're the one who smooshed paternal rights and financial caretaking of children with abortion, not me. I don't think the issues belong together at all.

What you're saying is that men should be able to walk away from all responsibility of taking care of their children. Point blank, that's what you're saying. Because the option of abortion exists before a child is a child, even for those who would never have one for moral reasons...men need to be able to leave their kids behind once they're alive, to make it "fair."

I get it totally. So start some mens' anti-rights group to take away all responsibility and rights for men and give it back to women. You guys fought for those rights. But, whatever.

Straw Man · « **Reply #87 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:37:19 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 30, 2009, 05:32:09 PM

im saying that its not fair to give the women that right and not the man

do you agree or disagree?

your issue is fairness?

are you kidding?

tonymctones · « **Reply #88 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:39:43 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 30, 2009, 05:37:19 PM

your issue is fairness?

are you kidding?

are you fuking kidding? how the fuck have you not deciphered that? seriously do you even read my posts before you respond?

Deedee · « **Reply #89 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:43:16 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 30, 2009, 05:37:19 PM

your issue is fairness?

are you kidding?

Of course it is. Why do you think I made the analogy earlier about the little kid who cries when his older brother gets to stay up an hour later than he can. It's incredible. But there it is.

Straw Man · « **Reply #90 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:44:26 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 30, 2009, 05:39:43 PM

are you fuking kidding? how the fuck have you not deciphered that? seriously do you even read my posts before you respond?

so you start out fair but then you think the woman has the advantage?

she has the choice of life or death and more importantly imposing financial obligation upon you?

what if the man does want the kid and the woman doesn't

if we are talking about fairness and equal rights shouldn't the woman be forced to have the kid

tonymctones · « **Reply #91 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:46:31 PM »

Quote from: Deedee on August 30, 2009, 05:36:06 PM

You're the one who smooshed paternal rights and financial caretaking of children with abortion, not me. I don't think the issues belong together at all.

What you're saying is that men should be able to walk away from all responsibility of taking care of their children. Point blank, that's what you're saying. Because the option of abortion exists before a child is a child, even for those who would never have one for moral reasons...men need to be able to leave their kids behind once they're alive, to make it "fair."

I get it totally. So start some mens' anti-rights group to take away all responsibility and rights for men and give it back to women. You guys fought for those rights. But, whatever.

the reason financial burden and abortion belong together is b/c a man not paying financially is one of the male abortions...again do some research.

FOR THE LOVE OF SHIT!!! again im not saying it should be a certain way or not simply giving ideas to alleviate that UNFAIRNESS THAT YOU AGREE IS THERE could that be an option of course it could after all we allow women to run away from their responsibilities dont we? real fair...

simply b/c we got fuked while fighting for our parental rights doesnt make it fair brain child...

tonymctones · « **Reply #92 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:50:03 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 30, 2009, 05:44:26 PM

so you start out fair but then you think the woman has the advantage?

she has the choice of life or death and more importantly imposing financial obligation upon you?

what if the man does want the kid and the woman doesn't

if we are talking about fairness and equal rights shouldn't the woman be forced to have the kid

when did i say it started out fair?

No not at all she also has a choice

the actions to be taken are not as important at this point in time as the acceptance that some action needs to be taken to fix the unfairness...so again admit that you cannot logically and in all fairness deny the man the right to choose and give it solely to the women...

tonymctones · « **Reply #93 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:52:41 PM »

dee the road from slavery to the civil rights we all enjoy today wasnt accomplished in one big decision rather multiple smaller ones the same will be true for mens rights as they apply to this issue. Youve already agreed its not fair its only a matter of time before new laws and legislation is put in place to right that unfairness.

Straw Man · « **Reply #94 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:55:10 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 30, 2009, 05:50:03 PM

when did i say it started out fair?

No not at all she also has a choice

the actions to be taken are not as important at this point in time as the acceptance that some action needs to be taken to fix the unfairness...so again admit that you cannot logically and in all fairness deny the man the right to choose and give it solely to the women...

okay so you're not saying we started out fair

but somehow an "UNFAIRNESS" happend and MUST be corrected

should the government step in and help FIX THE UNFAIRNESS?

Straw Man · « **Reply #95 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:57:35 PM »

Quote from: Deedee on August 30, 2009, 05:43:16 PM

Of course it is. Why do you think I made the analogy earlier about the little kid who cries when his older brother gets to stay up an hour later than he can. It's incredible. But there it is.

good point

tonymctones · « **Reply #96 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:58:55 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 30, 2009, 05:55:10 PM

okay so you're not saying we started out fair

but somehow an "UNFAIRNESS" happend and MUST be corrected

should the government step in and help FIX THE UNFAIRNESS?

why not the govt stepped in and created the unfairness?

Straw Man · « **Reply #97 on:** August 30, 2009, 06:02:47 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 30, 2009, 05:58:55 PM

why not the govt stepped in and created the unfairness?

so you're saying at that I understand your point of view correctly?

tonymctones · « **Reply #98 on:** August 30, 2009, 06:04:47 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 30, 2009, 06:02:47 PM

so you're saying at that I understand your point of view correctly?

Im not quite sure your idea of fairness at the beginning i dont understand what you mean so no...

Dr Loomis · « **Reply #99 on:** August 30, 2009, 06:07:33 PM »

In a pregnancy, if a woman wants to have the child and the guy doesn't, she can, and the law will hold him acountable regardless of what he wants. If a woman wants to abort, she can abort without consulting the partner and go on with her life, the man has no say in the life that they conceived together.

If by chance the man wants the woman to give birth to his child and raise it on his own, with her being held accountable for support, he doesn't have that right either, even though this is all a 50/50 venture from the start. It's far from equal.