Whoever would take this seriously also believes in Santa...really? you think Coleman and Cutler are on only 1000mg. of test/week?
I will cross the line and say little more than I should - but most of the SMART PROS...and there ARE MANY take:
500 - 1000 mg of TEST/week
+
250 - 1000mg of OTHER ANABOLICS along with it....with antiestrogen of choice.
Not all take GH and INSULIN...and if they do it is 2-6 IU of GH/day + 5-40 IU of insulin/day
I hope GH15's liver falls off. Idiot.
really? you think Coleman and Cutler are on only 1000mg. of test/week?
really? you think Coleman and Cutler are on only 1000mg. of test/week?
I would not be surprised that at least one of them would tell you they never even did full 1000mg/week....More like 750mg test + some anabolicsi could see that if it was legitimate Schering, Upjohn, Steris or Organon human grade hormones but they'd ahve to take alot more of this watered down horrible UG or mexican vet bullshit.
I would not be surprised that at least one of them would tell you they never even did full 1000mg/week....More like 750mg test + some anabolics
look for the truth to be somewhat in the middle... gh15 is excess.. milos is not admitting to the whole dark truth.
I would not be surprised that at least one of them would tell you they never even did full 1000mg/week....More like 750mg test + some anabolicsThis nails home the importance of genetics when you think Arvilla, Sevatese and Udelez all do 1g a week.
my Lord i would hate to think that GH15 is accurate when talking about that stack. :oBear in mind 'he' is a dealer, and wants to drum up as much trade as possible.
This nails home the importance of genetics when you think Arvilla, Sevatese and Udelez all do 1g a week.then there was that "big johnbluesfan" dumbass who was taking 2,000mg. of various things and wouldn't even post his picture.
Although i don't quite believe Milos, he is more accurate than 'gh15' ::) At least Milos doesn't hide behind a screen name.
Whoever would take this seriously also believes in Santa...
I will cross the line and say little more than I should - but most of the SMART PROS...and there ARE MANY take:
500 - 1000 mg of TEST/week
+
250 - 1000mg of OTHER ANABOLICS along with it....with antiestrogen of choice.
Not all take GH and INSULIN...and if they do it is 2-6 IU of GH/day + 5-40 IU of insulin/day
how do you account for the continual gains in size
lifting weights is lifting weights
and people have been switched onto good nutrition for at least the last decade
the only obvious explanation is increased drug use
YES
Whoever would take this seriously also believes in Santa...
I will cross the line and say little more than I should - but most of the SMART PROS...and there ARE MANY take:
500 - 1000 mg of TEST/week
+
250 - 1000mg of OTHER ANABOLICS along with it....with antiestrogen of choice.
Not all take GH and INSULIN...and if they do it is 2-6 IU of GH/day + 5-40 IU of insulin/day
No offense but I find that difficult to believe,,,,
This is just another case of some douche bag posting to stir shit up. I'm sure there are people who would take such a cycle however just the logistics behind it are plain fucked up. Someone please do the math for this cycle because in HGH alone, it would cost a couple of g's.
Nubain, halostatin, DNP, ...let's just say someone actually did TRY this cycle...they probably wouldn't survive until contest day.
for the last time im going to say it,,
there is NONE,,NON EVEN ONE TOP PRO BODYBUILDER THAT ISNT FEMILIAR WITH THE ROUTINE I MENTIONED,,NO MATTER WHAT CLAIMS YOU HEAR IN THE PUBLIC,,WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK IM ANNONYMOUS COMING HERE AND TELLING YOU THIS?,,ID BE OUT OF ALONE AND ISOLATED THE MOMENT MANY OF MY FELLA BODYBUILDERS KNOW WHO I AM
my friends,,pro bodybuilding comes with a lot of lies due to the need to make profit via other LEGAL means,,the industry live on you buying vitargo following bullshit,,
milos,,,and im very surprised about this,,knows that it is a lot ore than good genetis to step on any ifbb stage,,milos knows first hand that it is a lot of oil,,milos knows that jason and ron are on 3 grams a week offseason inorder to just maintain size,,
the routine i confirmed IS 100% ACCURATE,, and in many times not even half the story because it doesnt have OTHER types of pain killers and meds for blood pressure and acne et etc that are taken
you DO NOT SEE 250LB 5'9 AT 6% WALKING AROUND YOU UNLESS IT IS ON MAJOR USE OF HORMONES AND OTHER BI PRODUCTS,,YOU JUST DONT,,
TAKE A LOOK AT BODYBUILDERS PAST OUR CAREERS,,,AL SHRINK AND IF NOT SHRINK BECOME FAT PIGS WITH 20% BUT STILL A LOT SMALLER MUSCLE MASS!
MILOS SHOUDL STOP RIGHT HERE AND NOW! BECAUSE MY WORD IS FINAL I DONT PLAY NO BULLSHIT CRAP WHEN IT COMES TO TRUTH
for the last time im going to say it,,Meltdown
there is NONE,,NON EVEN ONE TOP PRO BODYBUILDER THAT ISNT FEMILIAR WITH THE ROUTINE I MENTIONED,,NO MATTER WHAT CLAIMS YOU HEAR IN THE PUBLIC,,WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK IM ANNONYMOUS COMING HERE AND TELLING YOU THIS?,,ID BE OUT OF ALONE AND ISOLATED THE MOMENT MANY OF MY FELLA BODYBUILDERS KNOW WHO I AM
my friends,,pro bodybuilding comes with a lot of lies due to the need to make profit via other LEGAL means,,the industry live on you buying vitargo following bullshit,,
milos,,,and im very surprised about this,,knows that it is a lot ore than good genetis to step on any ifbb stage,,milos knows first hand that it is a lot of oil,,milos knows that jason and ron are on 3 grams a week offseason inorder to just maintain size,,
the routine i confirmed IS 100% ACCURATE,, and in many times not even half the story because it doesnt have OTHER types of pain killers and meds for blood pressure and acne et etc that are taken
you DO NOT SEE 250LB 5'9 AT 6% WALKING AROUND YOU UNLESS IT IS ON MAJOR USE OF HORMONES AND OTHER BI PRODUCTS,,YOU JUST DONT,,
TAKE A LOOK AT BODYBUILDERS PAST OUR CAREERS,,,AL SHRINK AND IF NOT SHRINK BECOME FAT PIGS WITH 20% BUT STILL A LOT SMALLER MUSCLE MASS!
MILOS SHOUDL STOP RIGHT HERE AND NOW! BECAUSE MY WORD IS FINAL I DONT PLAY NO BULLSHIT CRAP WHEN IT COMES TO TRUTH
for the last time im going to say it,,
there is NONE,,NON EVEN ONE TOP PRO BODYBUILDER THAT ISNT FEMILIAR WITH THE ROUTINE I MENTIONED,,NO MATTER WHAT CLAIMS YOU HEAR IN THE PUBLIC,,WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK IM ANNONYMOUS COMING HERE AND TELLING YOU THIS?,,ID BE OUT OF ALONE AND ISOLATED THE MOMENT MANY OF MY FELLA BODYBUILDERS KNOW WHO I AM
my friends,,pro bodybuilding comes with a lot of lies due to the need to make profit via other LEGAL means,,the industry live on you buying vitargo following bullshit,,
milos,,,and im very surprised about this,,knows that it is a lot ore than good genetis to step on any ifbb stage,,milos knows first hand that it is a lot of oil,,milos knows that jason and ron are on 3 grams a week offseason inorder to just maintain size,,
the routine i confirmed IS 100% ACCURATE,, and in many times not even half the story because it doesnt have OTHER types of pain killers and meds for blood pressure and acne et etc that are taken
you DO NOT SEE 250LB 5'9 AT 6% WALKING AROUND YOU UNLESS IT IS ON MAJOR USE OF HORMONES AND OTHER BI PRODUCTS,,YOU JUST DONT,,
TAKE A LOOK AT BODYBUILDERS PAST OUR CAREERS,,,AL SHRINK AND IF NOT SHRINK BECOME FAT PIGS WITH 20% BUT STILL A LOT SMALLER MUSCLE MASS!
MILOS SHOUDL STOP RIGHT HERE AND NOW! BECAUSE MY WORD IS FINAL I DONT PLAY NO BULLSHIT CRAP WHEN IT COMES TO TRUTH
I also dont beleive Pros are skimming by on a only 750\1000migs in combo with a few other anabolics per week.
one more thing,,Why would milos lie? He openly says steroids are good for you!!! Can you think of any other pro in the history of bodybuilding that would say such a controversial thing! He wants to debate with doctors on CNN - so don't try and claim he his worried about legal issues!
theguys in the 70 took a lot more a lot easier and a lot more mixes of orals such as halo dianabol and winstrol taken together!
guys in the 70s had everything free and legal,,they didnt get to our sizes because there was no use of gh slin and t3 together in a combo because it just was in the beggining stages of experiementing in the 80s,,
good genetics = check republic guy 230-240lb 6'1 10% with little dianabol or winstrol
pro or any top amatuer = alot more than your little head can imagine or believe
its funny that the person who almost died from this talk like that now,,and milos was not on the extreme use but very femiliar with the routine i mention,,+ milos genetics wouldnt allow his arms to be very big no matter what he would take so increasing the doses or products for milos wouldnt help,thats why the seo route taken as last resort,,his other bodypart responded a lot better
its amazing to me that people sit here and thinkthat you can be anything over 220lb 6% 5''11-6'0 on minimal use of hormones,,ANYTHING MORE = CONSTANT REGULAR CONSISTANT USE OF LOTS OF GOODIES
shame on you that you think i come here to make money,,i had so many offers here to write for magazines,,so many offers to sell for big money,,so many offers to open web sites,,,i always refuse because i do not need your money nor the lies here,,i come here for one and one thing only,,i come here for the 18 year old guy from phonix arizona usa that decided to take the bodybuilding route and try to make a living off it,,,i coe here for this guy to see and know what it really takes
one more thing,,...and we're thankfull for it.
theguys in the 70 took a lot more a lot easier and a lot more mixes of orals such as halo dianabol and winstrol taken together!
guys in the 70s had everything free and legal,,they didnt get to our sizes because there was no use of gh slin and t3 together in a combo because it just was in the beggining stages of experiementing in the 80s,,
good genetics = check republic guy 230-240lb 6'1 10% with little dianabol or winstrol
pro or any top amatuer = alot more than your little head can imagine or believe
its funny that the person who almost died from this talk like that now,,and milos was not on the extreme use but very femiliar with the routine i mention,,+ milos genetics wouldnt allow his arms to be very big no matter what he would take so increasing the doses or products for milos wouldnt help,thats why the seo route taken as last resort,,his other bodypart responded a lot better
its amazing to me that people sit here and thinkthat you can be anything over 220lb 6% 5''11-6'0 on minimal use of hormones,,ANYTHING MORE = CONSTANT REGULAR CONSISTANT USE OF LOTS OF GOODIES
shame on you that you think i come here to make money,,i had so many offers here to write for magazines,,so many offers to sell for big money,,so many offers to open web sites,,,i always refuse because i do not need your money nor the lies here,,i come here for one and one thing only,,i come here for the 18 year old guy from phonix arizona usa that decided to take the bodybuilding route and try to make a living off it,,,i coe here for this guy to see and know what it really takes
for the last time im going to say it,,
there is NONE,,NON EVEN ONE TOP PRO BODYBUILDER THAT ISNT FEMILIAR WITH THE ROUTINE I MENTIONED,,NO MATTER WHAT CLAIMS YOU HEAR IN THE PUBLIC,,WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK IM ANNONYMOUS COMING HERE AND TELLING YOU THIS?,,ID BE OUT OF ALONE AND ISOLATED THE MOMENT MANY OF MY FELLA BODYBUILDERS KNOW WHO I AM
my friends,,pro bodybuilding comes with a lot of lies due to the need to make profit via other LEGAL means,,the industry live on you buying vitargo following bullshit,,
milos,,,and im very surprised about this,,knows that it is a lot ore than good genetis to step on any ifbb stage,,milos knows first hand that it is a lot of oil,,milos knows that jason and ron are on 3 grams a week offseason inorder to just maintain size,,
the routine i confirmed IS 100% ACCURATE,, and in many times not even half the story because it doesnt have OTHER types of pain killers and meds for blood pressure and acne et etc that are taken
you DO NOT SEE 250LB 5'9 AT 6% WALKING AROUND YOU UNLESS IT IS ON MAJOR USE OF HORMONES AND OTHER BI PRODUCTS,,YOU JUST DONT,,
TAKE A LOOK AT BODYBUILDERS PAST OUR CAREERS,,,AL SHRINK AND IF NOT SHRINK BECOME FAT PIGS WITH 20% BUT STILL A LOT SMALLER MUSCLE MASS!
MILOS SHOUDL STOP RIGHT HERE AND NOW! BECAUSE MY WORD IS FINAL I DONT PLAY NO BULLSHIT CRAP WHEN IT COMES TO TRUTH
You have much to learn, it's quite possible, I know I can gain at 15lbs just on 400mg test alone without changing my diet much in as little as 2 1/2-3weeks, once your body has reached a certain level, it can respond with little.u are plain stupid..just stfu
Guys i can back Milos 100% with this post!!! the astronomical amounts of steroids, gh, insulin etc that the general public think alot of the pro's take is just ridiculous!!!!! I can honestly say having helped alot of amateurs myself prepare for shows is the first thing i do is cut there cycles in half and than maybe half again!!! they have this inscane belief that taking this ridiculous amounts will make this a professional bodbuilder more faster and than get on the Olympia stage!!! achieving a pro card is one thing but competing in the Olympia is the highest level a pro can obtain! but having said does this mean the very top guys in the sport are abusing??? NO WAY!!!! look at the very elite, Jay, Ronnie, Melvin, Dexter, Dennis, Victor, Gustavo etc......these guys have been around in the elite level for almost 10 years!!! WHY??? not because they abuse but like Milos said because they are smart!!!! the guys who come in like a flash and exit just as fast as the guys more likely taking the most risk!
Lee Priest once said "There would be guys in a Mr Olympia audience who have never ever competed taking more gear than the the actual Mr Olympia competitors on stage"!!! nothing could be further from the truth!
You have much to learn, it's quite possible, I know I can gain at 15lbs just on 400mg test alone without changing my diet much in as little as 2 1/2-3weeks, once your body has reached a certain level, it can respond with little.
u are plain stupid..just stfu
I dont disagree with what your saying.... But ummm ya dont go from 235lbs to 275 on 400 migs of test per week and a few dbols... sorry....
I dont disagree with what your saying.... But ummm ya dont go from 235lbs to 275 on 400 migs of test per week and a few dbols... sorry....I did that naturally...50lbs in 6 months...half fat, half muscle.
Why would milos lie? He openly says steroids are good for you!!! Can you think of any other pro in the history of bodybuilding that would say such a controversial thing! He wants to debate with doctors on CNN - so don't try and claim he his worried about legal issues!
No one is doubting that pros do massive cycles, never come off, take pain killers etc etc - but your cycle is so extreme its not physically possible! Most have to work in shitty jobs and wouldn't have the time or mental fortitude to constantly pop, pin and neck pharmaceuticals!
You guys are too funny. It is a myth that the more juice you take the bigger you'll get. The body can only assimilate a certain amount. The rest is pure waste. Pros are not dumb and will not flush their money down the toilets. That's why they don't take these huge amounts because it is not necessary.All steroids do is help you assimilate more protein into the muscles. There is a certain limit to what this is. That is why some schmoes take juice and grow very little while others can balloon up real big.QFT
I tend to believe GH a little more than I would believe anything Milos says at this point, not that I know Milos personally. Furthermore, there was a video on the steroid board of Ronnie C. and his tackle box full of drugs and "supplemants", half of which he did not even know what it was. There was like fifty orals in there. No telling what else that big fucker is shooting if he is on that many oral anything. I will say this, the stack GH laid out is extreme in nature but I believe there are some freaks out there that do it while others don't need as much because they have better genetics.
well people wanna believe it's all drugs so they can feel better about themselves
if it's all genetics they dont know what to do with their jealousy and hate
I didn't do that.
It's both - TONS of drugs and a great genetic response to those drugs.
yes tons of drugs. according to some gimmick.
and now you (who also believed in, and followed the diet of the great scientist "adonis")
::)
GH15 = full of shit. I called you out several times. You obviously have an agenda. You're a fucking gimmick and I know who you are. Drop the act and stick to your "ask xxx" sticky thread.
Long-Acting Insulin 100 units in the morning
Fast Acting insulin 25 units per meal (he is now to scared to eat without insulin)
Glucophage, taken before workouts, 4,000mg
4000mg of glucophage alone is enough to put you in hypoglycemia mode for at least 10 hours. Doing that before training makes even less sense.
100IU of humilin = very advanced stage of insulin resistance in a type 2 dabetes patient. +25IU per meals. Doing that protocol even for days would shut down your pancreas for good.
Thanks Milos for putting some sense back in the madhouse.
Bluto- Don't get me started, I wasn't saying they were all oral steroids, I was saying that he didn't know what half of it was and the other was for high blood pressure, liver pils, etc...."drugs" by definition you stupid fat fuck. Learn your place and quit trying so hard to call someone out all the time. I am done here.
i never lie! remember this,,this is why annonymous
you meanwhile can stay 240 thinkin you are 10% while in reality you are 16-18%,,thinking you can get to single digits at 250lb and step on stage all that while using minimal doses,,
if you took what jason is taking,,YOU WOULD THAT JASON MORE OR LESS,,doesnt mean you would win a pro card,,,doesnt mean you would be a good pro bodybuilder,,but you will grow to jason size and muscle quality as in low bodyfat and trained well developed muscle
Bluto- Don't get me started, I wasn't saying they were all oral steroids, I was saying that he didn't know what half of it was and the other was for high blood pressure, liver pils, etc...."drugs" by definition you stupid fat fuck. Learn your place and quit trying so hard to call someone out all the time. I am done here.
the fuccking insulin use that Gh listed is insane, why would someone do that to themselves?
You know too well that this above didn't make sense but decided to post it regardless. What's your motivation? Hype the craziness even more? For the attention?you are foth fat AND stupid...hope this helps.
you are foth fat AND stupid...hope this helps.Alex dwarfs you in muscle mass you skinny swimmer queer.
Alex dwarfs you in muscle mass you skinny swimmer queer.
...And all Natural with all my hair.hahahaha, i'm saying that this skinny bald roid raging penii puffer's eurotrash genetics are so terrible that he needs 250mg. of test suspension just to open the gym door.
Dave, are you saying that "Sevastase" is once again having a pre-menstrual mid-life crisis and realizes that even with his reliance on 1000mg+ test just to get out of the house he sill envy us like a 4 year old at the county fair?
I SAID SMART PROS...and both Ronnie and Jay are smart...
Ha ha ha...and with that you lose all credibility Mishko ;D::)
In all seriousness though, both Mishko & gh15 are right. I personally know several national level guys, as well as IFBB pros who are using what gh15 outlined...and then some! They are dumb as fuck and think that becasue their current blood work is okay, that they are fine ::) And they do spend an ungodly amount of money on their gear. One guy sticks himself 5+ times PER DAY during pre contest :o
I also know of two top IFBB pros who took ridiculously low dosages for 3-5 months out of the year. One took 2nd in the Mr. O twice and the other placed in the top six. Both of these guys had unbelievable genetics when it came to responding to gear.
::)
Unless you name names what you've just written is bullshit.
Ask me if I care ::)You cared enough to contribute to the thread ::)
You cared enough to contribute to the thread ::)
luke stomack viruses pre comp from lasix use
You have a set of people getting sick far more often than the same sized set in the general publicShow me the figures for this.
Show me the figures for this.Bump.
GH15,
Have spoken to a few pro, ones who know. That list is way out, so unless you are making up some of these, you are getting wrong info, or more likely, you havent used these. Not one person said that can be accurate. So you must either know someone who is feeding you lots of stuff...
GH15,
Have spoken to a few pro, ones who know. That list is way out, so unless you are making up some of these, you are getting wrong info, or more likely, you havent used these. Not one person said that can be accurate. So you must either know someone who is feeding you lots of stuff...
I have trained with a IFBB pro who turned pro as a middleweight and is one of the smaller guys on stage. I know for a fact! he was using tiny minimal amounts, way less then the average local competitor precontest. But to say 300lbs of shreeded beef is made on 500mgs and some orange roughy is ridiculous. Open Bills book and look at the example of a pro cycle. Look at munzers famous cycle. Look familiar?::)
You have a set of people getting sick far more often than the same sized set in the general public,Still waiting for the figures to prove this
::)
Loads of 'guys' like you know someone who definately used X ammount of gear - yet you never name names. Could it be because you're lying?
Still waiting for the figures to prove this
::)Absolutly not.. But this person has a very good reputation in the bodybuilding community and who am i to tarnish his name w/o permission. I know he goes on this board all the time, yet never posts. What i know is FACT.My close friends on here and other members on here who know me, know exactly who im talking about. If not pm me
Loads of 'guys' like you know someone who definately used X ammount of gear - yet you never name names. Could it be because you're lying?
Whoever would take this seriously also believes in Santa...You think those presents gets piled up under the tree by themselves?
Ron, you know most of these guy LIE about how much they are using. They want people to think that they take very little so that they can attribute their huge mass to their "superior knowledge of training & nutrition" ::)
The only reason I feel confident about the ones I talked about, was because they were part of a study we did. Even then, I would bet they took more than what they told us...
what study?
GH15,QFT...and I just have to say this again to those dinks who were ripping on me in the original GH15 thread for doubting his sanity:
Have spoken to a few pro, ones who know. That list is way out, so unless you are making up some of these, you are getting wrong info, or more likely, you havent used these. Not one person said that can be accurate. So you must either know someone who is feeding you lots of stuff...
I've been involved in numerous informal studies that included national level & pro level bbdrs. All centered around protein metabolism. These studies were for research purposes. It was required for all subjects to disclose what they were using. All were sunjected to blood/urine tests. When I say I was involved, I mean that I worked with the companies that conducted the studies. In some cases, I was one of the subjects...
Funny thing is, out of this whole thread I'd tend to believe mindspin the most. ;D
As he has the least to gain/lose compared to gh15 and milos.
Just out of curiosity...were these studies done with Met-Rx??? It's funny because didn't Met-Rx sponsor some big names like Ronnie Coleman, Quadzilla and even Milos??? Were they involved in these studies???
GH15 is a bit more on target here I believe than Milos or Ron.
1st, Milos has much to lose. Ron is just playin mod here comparing notes and in the end, his .02 is irrelavant. I mean he has delete power, big deal.
If I know for fact that two competitive top amatueres are hitting close to what GH15 claims then it's very practical for a behemoth pro to use such a protocol.
Denial is a mutha.....get over it.
So you know amateurs who shoot 250UI of insulin a day, take 4000mg of Glucophage and 36IU of GH without going into shock?
GH15,
Have spoken to a few pro, ones who know. That list is way out, so unless you are making up some of these, you are getting wrong info, or more likely, you havent used these. Not one person said that can be accurate. So you must either know someone who is feeding you lots of stuff...
I wrote ..."hitting close to".
200IU of insulin is close to still unheard of 30IU is close to 36 and still a complete waste.
+ Ron knows more about the whos and wheres of the boarders than you can ever imagine. We do talk outside of this hellhole.
....Be Nice and Watch your mouth. Don't make I slap the taste out of it. I'm just asking a question.
what i confirmed was TOP PRO BODYBUILDING CYCLE,,after years of years of using less climbing in the ranks,,this is not some out of no where cycle that a new guy that enter a gym takes,,i mentioned it,,this is for the person who got to earn his pro card and been and seen all
all the ones you mentioned know nd do it including me,,
for the last time,,,there is a diff between hawaian kid with 10 inch wrist 296 pounds 6 feet with 25-30% bodyfat and the pro bodybuilder,,the pro bodybuilder never was this hwaian kid and this hawaian kid is not muscle bound nor use the number of products/doses we we do
lastly,,takin big number doesnt mean you will turn pro faster,,,it doesnt mean you will turn pro at all! what it does mean is that you already are a pro and THIS IS WHAT YOU USE INORDER TO BE ABLE TO COMPETE WITH THE BIG BOYS AND DO DAMAGE,,
there is major use in top amatuer level and pro level no matter what bullshit someone tell you on here,,go look at the wrstler that murdered his family..the good guy you always liked to like,,,the good guy that in reality was a dealer for wrestlers,,in reality used doses that we pro bodybuilders use yet couldnt get to our level of development,,,yet! that wrestler used a lot of goodies behind closed doors,,and we are talkin about a wrestler with no physiqe to talk about,,average gym rat physiqe,,,
take those products and put them into guy with genetic reponse ,,,and you get a pro
You are taking a situation where one of two guys do something extreme and posting it as the norm. There are about ten or so pro's and many top amateurs I know. (the guy who demands names or you're lying, guess you'll have to believe i'm lying). One of the pro's dosage is somewhere in the range you listed. I know of local guys who are also in that range. Those guys are the exception and have at best decent genetics.
lets make it a simple example with names,,lets take the wrestler benoit not even a bodybuilder!! ,,his doctor,,and there are many criminal doctors around that we bodybuilders use and befriend for benefits,,his doctor gave him 10 MONTH WORTH OF AAS EVERY 4 WEEKS,,read this 10 times to yourself and ask yoursef this simple question,,,if a doc gave a famous athlete that much drugs how much shit can a pro bodybuilder such as myself takes into him,,ask yourself this question as many times and you can,,,and at the end you will see when you grey and old that the answer will be,,as many as the human body can possibly take
200-250mg test amp per week is standard hrt,,now 10 months supply in a month = 10 GRAMS OF SYNTHETIC TEST AND OR OTHER AAS AND THEIR RELATIVES IN A MATTER OF 4 WEEKS EVERY 4 WEEKS,,
NOW THIS 10 GRAMS I DO ADMIT IS PARTLY FOR DISTRIBUTION AMONG OTHER ATHLETES THAT THE DRUGS ARE SOLD TO,,BUT REST ASSURE THE WRESTLER KEPT A NICE 2 GRAM A WEEK OF TEST FOR HIMSELF,,
now,,we are talking here about AN AVERAGE PHYSIQE 220 5'10 10% WITH 10 GRAM GEAR PRESCRIBED EVERY 4 WEEKS,,A WRESTLER THAT DIDNT PUT EVEN 1/5 OF THE TIME A BODYBUILDER PUT IN GYM IN NUTRITION AND IN SLEEP AND DEDICATION,,WITH LITTLE TO NO EFFORT AND SOME TRAINING WHILE BEING ON THE ROAD YEAR OVER YEAR HE MAINTAINED 220 10% WHY?? DUE TO THE THOSE 10 MONTH IN 4 WEEKS DRUG DEAL HE HAD GOING ON FOR YEARS
TAKE THOSE SAME DOSES AND PRODUCTS AND STICK THEM IN MINDSPIN FOR EXAMPLE IN THE PICS OF HIM I SAW AND YOU WILL GET A VERSION OF YOUR LOVELY FRIEND MR PUORTO RICO NATURAL GUSTAV :)
YOU DO NOT WALK AROUND 250LB AT 6 % AT 5'10 WITH OUT YEARS ON AAS AND YEARS OF GOOD QUALITY TRAINING,,
GOTTA PAY THE PRICE BOTH IN THE GYM AND IN THE GEAR DEPARTMENT, PERIOD
THERE ARE VERY FEW GENETIK FREAKS,,THEY STAND AT 6 FEET 230 10% WITH VERY GOOD MUSCLE SHAPE AND MUSCLE BELLIES,,EVEN THOSE COUPLE FREAKS NEED LOTS OF PRODUCTS TO MAKE THIS 230 TO 280 WITH SAME CONDITION OR BETTER,,THOSE FREAKS ARE ALMOST NONE EXISTANT IN USA THEY ARE MAINLY FROM EASTERN EUROPE BUT EVEN THEY CAN ONLY MAINTAIN 230-240LB 8-10% ON MINIMAL DOSES AND THEY CANT STAND A CHANCE UNLESS THEY KICK IT TO HIGH GEAR,,IF NOT THEY ALWAYS STUCK AT THEIR FREAKY 230 9% WITH THEIR GREAT MUSCLE SHAPE
milos dont exactly lie,,he just stretches and minimize the truth,,he got a gym and is known nd def not annonymous,,the fda and dea is all over his ass,,infact they probably read this right now,,do you think he will say something else?? you saw what they did to ap for dealing narcs/painkillers,,they nailed that poor fella lke there is no tomorrow,,milos wont tell you shit bout shit,,,all the thing milos does here is coveres fire with smoke
milos is not where you answers you so want to know about hormone use is,,he got too much fire around him,,he gotta say what he says
How does anyone test the truth of statements made re drugs and cycles? Clearly it cannot be anecdotal experience. No university in the world would pass studies to test those drug protocols and stacking. Therefore, we cannot have knowledge re this subject and it becomes lunacy to believe what gurus are telling us.
What insiders are disclosing above should bother everyone in bodybuilding. If even half of what Milos claims is required for success then this sport is dead. We might as well close Getbig because nothing here is worth discussing.
C'mon guys are you seroius?.......
How many people do you know that are taking 250mg-1000mg week? I know more than i can count on both hands.
Have you ever seen any of those guys get to 280lbs?
Have any of them ever been 250+lbs 4-6%?
Is there not 5 major other boards on the www that have thousands of members w/ many usuing over 2 grams a week?
If you think that Jay, Ronnie, Markus, Art, & Dennis are using 500-1000mg/wk you'll beleive anything.
I have trained with a IFBB pro who turned pro as a middleweight and is one of the smaller guys on stage. I know for a fact! he was using tiny minimal amounts, way less then the average local competitor precontest. But to say 300lbs of shreeded beef is made on 500mgs and some orange roughy is ridiculous. Open Bills book and look at the example of a pro cycle. Look at munzers famous cycle. Look familiar?
C'mon guys are you seroius?.......1000mg. of this bathtub/basement brew horseshit=500mg. of legitimate Steris or Organon product.
How many people do you know that are taking 250mg-1000mg week? I know more than i can count on both hands.
Have you ever seen any of those guys get to 280lbs?
Have any of them ever been 250+lbs 4-6%?
Is there not 5 major other boards on the www that have thousands of members w/ many usuing over 2 grams a week?
If you think that Jay, Ronnie, Markus, Art, & Dennis are using 500-1000mg/wk you'll beleive anything.
I have trained with a IFBB pro who turned pro as a middleweight and is one of the smaller guys on stage. I know for a fact! he was using tiny minimal amounts, way less then the average local competitor precontest. But to say 300lbs of shreeded beef is made on 500mgs and some orange roughy is ridiculous. Open Bills book and look at the example of a pro cycle. Look at munzers famous cycle. Look familiar?
NOBODY THAT COMPETED IN MR. OLYMPIA uses this kind of cycle...
I must say that I run into some CRAZY cycles people were showing me for years - but this one beats them all BY FAR...
Some guys (especially in Europe...and I will point out few guys in Germany and England) had wrong idea of what is truth - so crazy cycles were formed and circulate around...
When they would come to me - I would insure them that cycles like this would be DESTRUCTIVE and if anyone use it - they would have very short "life span" in COMPETITIVE IFBB PRO CIRCUIT...
I responded to this touchy subject as I WANT TO HELP...not get in discsion and argue the point...
People would believe what they want to believe and it is certainly easy to choose to believe that Ronnie and Jay are like that as they use so much more than everyone else...or Dorian...for example.
Many of you would just not accept the fact that drugs DON'T MAKE A CHAMPIONS...otherwise we would have so many...
Ronnie, Jay and Dorian were our last three Mr. Olympia NOT because they used MORE drugs than anyone else - and that is for sure.
Please don tell us that you(or Ronnie/JAy and the rest of tehm) were on 1g Test/600Deca when in best shape, cause this is BULLSHIT. If you dont want to tell the truth - DON"T, but just dont sell us garbage like that.as much as i like milos...he's insulting my inteligence..but i think for obvious reasons he has to say it this way...oh well....ronnie on 1 gram HAHAHAHAHAH...BITCH PLEASE...RONNIE PUSHED THE ENVELOPE PUSHED BY DORIAN..EVEN FURTHER. AND THATS THAT...
as much as i like milos...he's insulting my inteligence..but i think for obvious reasons he has to say it this way...oh well....ronnie on 1 gram HAHAHAHAHAH...BITCH PLEASE...RONNIE PUSHED THE ENVELOPE PUSHED BY DORIAN..EVEN FURTHER. AND THATS THAT...
Somehow I think that Milos has got far better knowledge on the sport and what goes on in it than this GH15 guy who must be some sort of dealer on an advertising trip.
I think you'll find that most pros will taking somewhere in the region of what Milos says they do - he's been there and knows what it takes to improve the body beyond that of what it's supposed to do naturally so a bit of realism goes a long way here. Apply a bit of common sense into it too - drugs can only do so much - ultimately it's your genetics, nutrition, and plain old hard work that turn an amateur into a pro so stacking shitloads of drugs on top of each other in the vain hope that it'll automatically make you better is only gonna head to an early grave.
You only gotta look at Munzer's "list" to realise that.
ronnie pushed the genetic envelope
Ronnie won his pro card almost naturally. I have no problem beleiving that. Even his Mom well into her 60's has better arms than half this board (better skintone too)
I said:
500-1000mg TEST/week
+
250-1000mg OTHER ANABOLICS/week
+
2-6 IU GH/day
+
up to 40 IU Insulin a day
AND THAT IS THE TRUTH...some would do just little extra - but majority DON'T!
Also - this is not non-stop either as people think...
Usually, whatever amount of weeks ON - at least HALF THAT MUCH OFF...and often - as much (or more) OFF than ON.
Meaning: 12 ON, 6 OFF...16 ON, 8 OFF...etc
explain how ronnie maintains 300+ lbs yr round? black eyed pea?
Ha ha ha...and with that you lose all credibility Mishko ;D
In all seriousness though, both Mishko & gh15 are right. I personally know several national level guys, as well as IFBB pros who are using what gh15 outlined...and then some! They are dumb as fuck and think that becasue their current blood work is okay, that they are fine ::) And they do spend an ungodly amount of money on their gear. One guy sticks himself 5+ times PER DAY during pre contest :o
I also know of two top IFBB pros who took ridiculously low dosages for 3-5 months out of the year. One took 2nd in the Mr. O twice and the other placed in the top six. Both of these guys had unbelievable genetics when it came to responding to gear.
Whoever would take this seriously also believes in Santa...
I will cross the line and say little more than I should - but most of the SMART PROS...and there ARE MANY take:
500 - 1000 mg of TEST/week
+
250 - 1000mg of OTHER ANABOLICS along with it....with antiestrogen of choice.
Not all take GH and INSULIN...and if they do it is 2-6 IU of GH/day + 5-40 IU of insulin/day
one more thing,,
theguys in the 70 took a lot more a lot easier and a lot more mixes of orals such as halo dianabol and winstrol taken together!
guys in the 70s had everything free and legal,,they didnt get to our sizes because there was no use of gh slin and t3 together in a combo because it just was in the beggining stages of experiementing in the 80s,,
good genetics = check republic guy 230-240lb 6'1 10% with little dianabol or winstrol
pro or any top amatuer = alot more than your little head can imagine or believe
its funny that the person who almost died from this talk like that now,,and milos was not on the extreme use but very femiliar with the routine i mention,,+ milos genetics wouldnt allow his arms to be very big no matter what he would take so increasing the doses or products for milos wouldnt help,thats why the seo route taken as last resort,,his other bodypart responded a lot better
its amazing to me that people sit here and thinkthat you can be anything over 220lb 6% 5''11-6'0 on minimal use of hormones,,ANYTHING MORE = CONSTANT REGULAR CONSISTANT USE OF LOTS OF GOODIES
shame on you that you think i come here to make money,,i had so many offers here to write for magazines,,so many offers to sell for big money,,so many offers to open web sites,,,i always refuse because i do not need your money nor the lies here,,i come here for one and one thing only,,i come here for the 18 year old guy from phonix arizona usa that decided to take the bodybuilding route and try to make a living off it,,,i coe here for this guy to see and know what it really takes
After reading this thread, I'm even happier I don't take drugs. What a fucking hassle...ahahFor once, I agree with you Croatch...not just the hassle, but damm, I'd puke a lung after all that shit, then die in a nice pool of my own bloody disintegrated organs.
Milos just owned GH15...
For those who insist they have to take drugs the question remains re dosage and frequency. How on earth is anyone supposed to get scientific knowledge about those drugs when almost no testing is being done on top bodybuilders?
Years ago Linus Pauling made claims about ascorbic acid and said taking huge amounts would make one resistant to getting colds. That turned out to be nonsense. It was a simple matter to test. If you were taking say 20 times the daily requirement of Vitamin C and still got colds then the theory was false.
Now, how is anyone going to test the theories about bodybuilding drugs? I suppose there are people experimenting with those drugs and keeping track of what is happening. It all seems so much like upping the drugs and expecting more results.
There are supposed to be androgen receptors in muscle cells and once saturated no more growth can occur. The strategy was to go off the drugs on a regular basis. That is what Milos is suggesting. However, we have heard that some bodybuilders are staying on the drugs for a long time. I wonder what makes modern bodybuilders so sure those protocols and stacks are safe? Seems to me Russian roulette with a needle and pills.
Milos, GH15 posted this cycle claiming it was one of the top IFBB Pro's cycle
no offence to him but IMO, it is complete bullshit and I have a hard time believing someone use even 1/2 of that
what's your opinion ?
ok
i got dozens of members here asking me for an example for pro bodybuilder cycles,,as i said many times before in general,,we do not get completely off drugs we only reduce the number of products/doses etc,,
what i will do here is give you a typical top pro routine,,THIS SHOULD NOT BE IMMITATED! THIS IS FOR BODYBUILDERS THAT HAVE BEEN THROUGH ALL STAGES OF HORMONE USE,,THIS IS NOT FOR BEGGINERS NOR IS IT FOR THE RECREATIONAL USER! i did not write the following but it is best describe a high level pro bodybuilder routine and i confirm this post
again be careful and dont think that by doing the same you will get same results,,you need the genetic response to be there in the first place! you need to be able to compete locally and do well with a lot less hormones
enjoy
PRE-CONTEST:
10-7 WEEKS OUT
250 mg sustanon per day
250 mg testopan (enanthate) per day
1000 Deca Durabolin
Humatrope Growth Hormone, 6 units per, 6 times a day!! (Five times a week)
Long-Acting Insulin 100 units in the morning
Fast Acting insulin 25 units per meal (he is now to scared to eat without insulin)
Oxymethelone (whatever type he can get) 5x50mg tabs
300 mcg T3 per day
200-mcg clen (taken five days on 2 days off)
Nubain 5 ml a day, 3 times a week (supposedly to reduce the addictiveness)
Glucophage, taken before workouts, 4,000mg
He does do IGF-1 but he limits it to 4 week cycles as he believes that most of the research on this shows limited length of time of effectiveness. He will then follow this up with a 4-week break
80 mg fluxoetine (prozac) to help with the chemical imbalances and to assist him to keep stress from the drugs down
180 mg Ephedrine Hydrochloride, before workouts
6-2 WEEKS OUT:
4,000 mg Testosterone Propionate
2 vials of Masteron
2 vials of Parabolan
10 tabs of halotestin per day, before training
DNP for a week in weeks 6,4 and 2
Clenbuterol on alternating weeks at 400mcg per day
T3 400mcg per day
Nubain as above
Insulin as above
Growth Hormone 6 units 6 times per day
IGF-1 for the four weeks to week 2 at 100 mcg per day.
100mg of fluxoetine (prozac)
Ephedrine as above
I estimate the mg’s at somewhere around 6,500 to 7,000 mgs a week
WEEKS 2 AND FIRST HALF OF WEEK 1:
Same as above except the Nubain is dropped, as it is unnecessary, as well as the IGF-1 is dropped.
Also one extra ampoule of Parabolan and Masteron per day.
LAST THREE DAYS:
Uses neoton 500, creatine phosphate (its an injectable I believe) in his carb deplete/load, he was unspecific on dosages
Two days out he uses Lasix (still a favorite) 80 mg four times a day, for two days.
The newest thing out is a plasma expander, by the name of
Groenaut, apparently from Europe, this works much in the same way as Glycerol in that it drams water out from underneath the skin and into the muscle and bloodstream leaving a very dry full look if it is done correctly, of course as with high stakes bodybuilding there is that ever apparent degree of risk, the risk here is mixing a diuretic which dumps the water from the system and a drug that tries to pull the water in, if the effect is too great, the least that could happen is that you don’t fill out and you look flat, dry but flat, the worst well the drug tends to favor skeletal muscle over smooth cardiac muscle, hence you are then in shit street as your heart dehydrates, and cardiac arrest kicks in, (not the same thing as Momo, though).
There are a lot of other drugs that are used such as amphetamines to help blunt the appetite and to give him energy as he gets closer to a show, as his body fat drops down to below 5 percent, he tends to feel very ill and tired, he also uses a lot of immuno stimulating supplements so he doesn’t get sick, of course as he is wired from the amphetamines he has to use xanax, halicon and valium (rotated to reduce reliance on a certain drug supposedly).
On show day the use of insulin before going on stage to get the last bit of fullness and bring out his vascularity, (up close this guy has veins that an octopus would envy. Shooting 10 units I.V before going on but after any pumping up he does
as much as i like milos...he's insulting my inteligence..
How Ironic!!go back coaching little league scrawnie...
go back coaching little league scrawnie...
Whoever would take this seriously also believes in Santa...
I will cross the line and say little more than I should - but most of the SMART PROS...and there ARE MANY take:
500 - 1000 mg of TEST/week
+
250 - 1000mg of OTHER ANABOLICS along with it....with antiestrogen of choice.
Not all take GH and INSULIN...and if they do it is 2-6 IU of GH/day + 5-40 IU of insulin/day
Milos, GH15 posted this cycle claiming it was one of the top IFBB Pro's cycle
no offence to him but IMO, it is complete bullshit and I have a hard time believing someone use even 1/2 of that
what's your opinion ?
ok
i got dozens of members here asking me for an example for pro bodybuilder cycles,,as i said many times before in general,,we do not get completely off drugs we only reduce the number of products/doses etc,,
what i will do here is give you a typical top pro routine,,THIS SHOULD NOT BE IMMITATED! THIS IS FOR BODYBUILDERS THAT HAVE BEEN THROUGH ALL STAGES OF HORMONE USE,,THIS IS NOT FOR BEGGINERS NOR IS IT FOR THE RECREATIONAL USER! i did not write the following but it is best describe a high level pro bodybuilder routine and i confirm this post
again be careful and dont think that by doing the same you will get same results,,you need the genetic response to be there in the first place! you need to be able to compete locally and do well with a lot less hormones
enjoy
PRE-CONTEST:
10-7 WEEKS OUT
250 mg sustanon per day
250 mg testopan (enanthate) per day
1000 Deca Durabolin
Humatrope Growth Hormone, 6 units per, 6 times a day!! (Five times a week)
Long-Acting Insulin 100 units in the morning
Fast Acting insulin 25 units per meal (he is now to scared to eat without insulin)
Oxymethelone (whatever type he can get) 5x50mg tabs
300 mcg T3 per day
200-mcg clen (taken five days on 2 days off)
Nubain 5 ml a day, 3 times a week (supposedly to reduce the addictiveness)
Glucophage, taken before workouts, 4,000mg
He does do IGF-1 but he limits it to 4 week cycles as he believes that most of the research on this shows limited length of time of effectiveness. He will then follow this up with a 4-week break
80 mg fluxoetine (prozac) to help with the chemical imbalances and to assist him to keep stress from the drugs down
180 mg Ephedrine Hydrochloride, before workouts
6-2 WEEKS OUT:
4,000 mg Testosterone Propionate
2 vials of Masteron
2 vials of Parabolan
10 tabs of halotestin per day, before training
DNP for a week in weeks 6,4 and 2
Clenbuterol on alternating weeks at 400mcg per day
T3 400mcg per day
Nubain as above
Insulin as above
Growth Hormone 6 units 6 times per day
IGF-1 for the four weeks to week 2 at 100 mcg per day.
100mg of fluxoetine (prozac)
Ephedrine as above
I estimate the mg’s at somewhere around 6,500 to 7,000 mgs a week
WEEKS 2 AND FIRST HALF OF WEEK 1:
Same as above except the Nubain is dropped, as it is unnecessary, as well as the IGF-1 is dropped.
Also one extra ampoule of Parabolan and Masteron per day.
LAST THREE DAYS:
Uses neoton 500, creatine phosphate (its an injectable I believe) in his carb deplete/load, he was unspecific on dosages
Two days out he uses Lasix (still a favorite) 80 mg four times a day, for two days.
The newest thing out is a plasma expander, by the name of
Groenaut, apparently from Europe, this works much in the same way as Glycerol in that it drams water out from underneath the skin and into the muscle and bloodstream leaving a very dry full look if it is done correctly, of course as with high stakes bodybuilding there is that ever apparent degree of risk, the risk here is mixing a diuretic which dumps the water from the system and a drug that tries to pull the water in, if the effect is too great, the least that could happen is that you don’t fill out and you look flat, dry but flat, the worst well the drug tends to favor skeletal muscle over smooth cardiac muscle, hence you are then in shit street as your heart dehydrates, and cardiac arrest kicks in, (not the same thing as Momo, though).
There are a lot of other drugs that are used such as amphetamines to help blunt the appetite and to give him energy as he gets closer to a show, as his body fat drops down to below 5 percent, he tends to feel very ill and tired, he also uses a lot of immuno stimulating supplements so he doesn’t get sick, of course as he is wired from the amphetamines he has to use xanax, halicon and valium (rotated to reduce reliance on a certain drug supposedly).
On show day the use of insulin before going on stage to get the last bit of fullness and bring out his vascularity, (up close this guy has veins that an octopus would envy. Shooting 10 units I.V before going on but after any pumping up he does
I will never put my health in jeapardy by believing what the gurus are telling us. That is lunacy. I want scientific evidence and proof. Without science it really is crazy to do those protocols. Look at the mentality of most posters in these threads. They literally believe stuff that has no scientific support at all. No wonder bodybuilding is a subculture and sinking fast.
Now, if Ronnie is really "only" on 1000mg of test per week, please can someone explain me how he put on 20 pounds of pure muscle from January 2003 to october 2003 to clinch his 6th Olympia! Silly me, he was probably on 250mg per week up until then and decided to go wild and try 1g per week ::) I really think the "truth" must be somewhere between what Milos and Gh tell us. I know Ronnie has amazing genetics, incredible dedication and work ethic, but please don't tell me there was not some kind of abuse from his part between his 5th and 6th Olympia.:D...good onetubs...he really went wild.
explain how ronnie maintains 300+ lbs yr round? black eyed pea?
Big props to you milos for saying what you said especially about test, people really think its all about test, I always say this but it goes in in one ear of people and comes out of the other, ive done a bit over 2000mg of solid US pharma grade test and ive done 250-400wk cycles I am not kidding I saw no difference at all the only difference was the sides with the more test.
the reason you didnt see a diff is because you were not big enough to begin with as in lean muscle mass,,so your physiqe needed 500mg,,,the bigger you are the more you need,,THAT DOESNT MAKE THE SMALLER GUYS LESS GREAT,,but the bigger guys need more and another aspect is the fact you most likley didnt use growth at the levels we use
you will need more test when using 15+ units growth a day with slin,,lots of test while on high dose of growth is needed for optimal results,,
i swear i feel im talkin to first graders and not lifters
Very very few guys can be serious and follow things to the T especially when it comes to diet, sticking yourself with a needle or swallowing a pill is not hard, not cheating is the big big problem
2500mg testo e/W
1000mg deca/W
100mg metandieon ed
nw ständig geil,nasenbluten,agro bissle,170/120 blutdruck
pro von max,bankdrücken 175kgauf195kg
kreuzh.von220 auf 250kg
16w kurlänge
trainingspartner (powerlifter)125kg+
500mg testo e ed
100mg halotestin ed
400mg trenbo acetat eod
There has always been an insider group that shares information. That seems to be true today because not everyone knows what is going on re drug use at the highest level of competition. The rest of us have to rely on hearsay and not facts. No wonder there is so much confusion. Now, what is the test of truth re drug dosage and stacking?Vince, you had the chance to be an 'insider' with the likes of Arnold and Sergio - but you didn't have the balls.
This is from a german board, a cycle which one dude did, not even competing!:The problem people have with the fantasy cycle is the insulin, not the 'normal' stuff.
This is from a german board, a cycle which one dude did, not even competing!:as crazy as that cycle is it's peanuts compared to the one GH15 listed.
Big props to you milos for saying what you said especially about test, people really think its all about test, I always say this but it goes in in one ear of people and comes out of the other, ive done a bit over 2000mg of solid US pharma grade test and ive done 250-400wk cycles I am not kidding I saw no difference at all the only difference was the sides with the more test.I think this post just about sums things up. I think there is only so much a person can take before the they will see no difference. Less is more.
as crazy as that cycle is it's peanuts compared to the one GH15 listed.
if u read this milos,remenber in santa susana that i wrote my prep down so u could see what i was doing?
if u remenber please write it down here so these guys can see that is not all huge amount of anabolics.
genetics,hard work and years of training make the diference.
pd-santa susana i competed with 115 kg.
Ok, Marcos....the dude is pretty big DK, have you ever seen his pics?
You do not quite fill into the pro-bb-with-year-long-experience-that-competes-for-the-O that gh15 mentioned i guess...
Doing some local shows i give you credit, but people like yuo are not discussed here in this thread.
Ok, Marcos....Hey my friend. Marcos is a huge ifbb pro.
You do not quite fill into the pro-bb-with-year-long-experience-that-competes-for-the-O that gh15 mentioned i guess...
Doing some local shows i give you credit, but people like yuo are not discussed here in this thread.
if u read this milos,remenber in santa susana that i wrote my prep down so u could see what i was doing?Me alegro de que compites finalmente.
if u remenber please write it down here so these guys can see that is not all huge amount of anabolics.
genetics,hard work and years of training make the diference.
pd-santa susana i competed with 115 kg.
Milos, GH15 posted this cycle claiming it was one of the top IFBB Pro's cycle
no offence to him but IMO, it is complete bullshit and I have a hard time believing someone use even 1/2 of that
what's your opinion ?
ok
i got dozens of members here asking me for an example for pro bodybuilder cycles,,as i said many times before in general,,we do not get completely off drugs we only reduce the number of products/doses etc,,
what i will do here is give you a typical top pro routine,,THIS SHOULD NOT BE IMMITATED! THIS IS FOR BODYBUILDERS THAT HAVE BEEN THROUGH ALL STAGES OF HORMONE USE,,THIS IS NOT FOR BEGGINERS NOR IS IT FOR THE RECREATIONAL USER! i did not write the following but it is best describe a high level pro bodybuilder routine and i confirm this post
again be careful and dont think that by doing the same you will get same results,,you need the genetic response to be there in the first place! you need to be able to compete locally and do well with a lot less hormones
enjoy
PRE-CONTEST:
10-7 WEEKS OUT
250 mg sustanon per day
250 mg testopan (enanthate) per day
1000 Deca Durabolin
Humatrope Growth Hormone, 6 units per, 6 times a day!! (Five times a week)
Long-Acting Insulin 100 units in the morning
Fast Acting insulin 25 units per meal (he is now to scared to eat without insulin)
Oxymethelone (whatever type he can get) 5x50mg tabs
300 mcg T3 per day
200-mcg clen (taken five days on 2 days off)
Nubain 5 ml a day, 3 times a week (supposedly to reduce the addictiveness)
Glucophage, taken before workouts, 4,000mg
He does do IGF-1 but he limits it to 4 week cycles as he believes that most of the research on this shows limited length of time of effectiveness. He will then follow this up with a 4-week break
80 mg fluxoetine (prozac) to help with the chemical imbalances and to assist him to keep stress from the drugs down
180 mg Ephedrine Hydrochloride, before workouts
6-2 WEEKS OUT:
4,000 mg Testosterone Propionate
2 vials of Masteron
2 vials of Parabolan
10 tabs of halotestin per day, before training
DNP for a week in weeks 6,4 and 2
Clenbuterol on alternating weeks at 400mcg per day
T3 400mcg per day
Nubain as above
Insulin as above
Growth Hormone 6 units 6 times per day
IGF-1 for the four weeks to week 2 at 100 mcg per day.
100mg of fluxoetine (prozac)
Ephedrine as above
I estimate the mg’s at somewhere around 6,500 to 7,000 mgs a week
WEEKS 2 AND FIRST HALF OF WEEK 1:
Same as above except the Nubain is dropped, as it is unnecessary, as well as the IGF-1 is dropped.
Also one extra ampoule of Parabolan and Masteron per day.
LAST THREE DAYS:
Uses neoton 500, creatine phosphate (its an injectable I believe) in his carb deplete/load, he was unspecific on dosages
Two days out he uses Lasix (still a favorite) 80 mg four times a day, for two days.
The newest thing out is a plasma expander, by the name of
Groenaut, apparently from Europe, this works much in the same way as Glycerol in that it drams water out from underneath the skin and into the muscle and bloodstream leaving a very dry full look if it is done correctly, of course as with high stakes bodybuilding there is that ever apparent degree of risk, the risk here is mixing a diuretic which dumps the water from the system and a drug that tries to pull the water in, if the effect is too great, the least that could happen is that you don’t fill out and you look flat, dry but flat, the worst well the drug tends to favor skeletal muscle over smooth cardiac muscle, hence you are then in shit street as your heart dehydrates, and cardiac arrest kicks in, (not the same thing as Momo, though).
There are a lot of other drugs that are used such as amphetamines to help blunt the appetite and to give him energy as he gets closer to a show, as his body fat drops down to below 5 percent, he tends to feel very ill and tired, he also uses a lot of immuno stimulating supplements so he doesn’t get sick, of course as he is wired from the amphetamines he has to use xanax, halicon and valium (rotated to reduce reliance on a certain drug supposedly).
On show day the use of insulin before going on stage to get the last bit of fullness and bring out his vascularity, (up close this guy has veins that an octopus would envy. Shooting 10 units I.V before going on but after any pumping up he does
Ok, Marcos....
You do not quite fill into the pro-bb-with-year-long-experience-that-competes-for-the-O that gh15 mentioned i guess...
Doing some local shows i give you credit, but people like yuo are not discussed here in this thread.
the dude is pretty big DK, have you ever seen his pics?
Hey my friend. Marcos is a huge ifbb pro.
ignorant, uninformed , assuming, illiterate posters such as your skinny self are dangerous on this board. Do you coach?..what ase your students going to learn from u ?...cause u talk straight out of your ass..dude shut up, Joe fuccking dwarfs you in muscle mass and even more so when he competed.
dude shut up, Joe fuccking dwarfs you in muscle mass and even more so when he competed.
Damn, I go away for 20 min to take a shit and I come back to see "savatase" is talking crap again.
Dude, why don't you put some oil on that big bald head of yours and rub it between Derek Anthonys camel toe!
Damn, I go away for 20 min to take a shit and I come back to see "savatase" is talking crap again.go fondle some boys at your camp perv ... what is it with grown men and little boys?
Dude, why don't you put some oil on that big bald head of yours and rub it between Derek Anthonys camel toe!
Are you saying Mr "1-gram-test-per-week" spermastse is getting beaten up by elementray school kids when he returns from his tennis lessons, sf?
he takes test to look like a natural that does cardio and lift weight 4 times per weekoh brother
lol..that fucker took test to play tennis..epic failure in life
Damn, I go away for 20 min to take a shit and I come back to see "savatase" is talking crap again.
you have problems if it takes you 20 minutes to take a shit :-\
E
No, it's my quiet time, I really enjoy taking my shit and reading :Dgood for ya old fart hahahah
good for ya old fart hahahah
The drug protocol which GH15 describes first appeared in ugsupplements.com/newsletter dated 11/4/2001 in an interview with an un-named bodybuilder who was described as BIG and famous to all, who has placed highly in the Olympia many times. He agreed to do the piece as his time as a pro was limited and he would like to help others. The author of the piece asked people not to make threads on who the pro was but time has passed and he is no longer competing....my feelings ,from reading the article and from remarks from people who were aquainted with him,were that he is a multiple winner of the Olympia and there I leave you. The article had the ring of truth about it.Are you saying gh15 has no clue, weighs in at 115lbs with pimples and greasy hair, and is just really good at copy/paste?
Don't CONFUSE what I am saying...
I could say that SOME do take more...but focus of choice of my words: I SAID SMART PROS...and both Ronnie and Jay are smart...
I would go this far and say: EVERY MISTER OLYMPIA WINNER SO FAR WAS NOT ABUSING steroids...rather they were all using safe amounts...and by safe I consider something in line of what I posted above.
And I PERSONALLY KNOW what most of them did....
The cycle was nasser's I distinctly remember reading somewhere that he said at one point he was shooting insulin with every meal and was "scared to eaat without it". The cycle could be authentic. How gh15 knows this is beyond me...it just may be nasser's. but milos is much closer to the reality of the doses of A SMART PRO. sure they mix things up a bit, but milos is pretty accurate about the basics that the smart pros use.
for the last time im going to say it,,
there is NONE,,NON EVEN ONE TOP PRO BODYBUILDER THAT ISNT FEMILIAR WITH THE ROUTINE I MENTIONED,,NO MATTER WHAT CLAIMS YOU HEAR IN THE PUBLIC,,WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK IM ANNONYMOUS COMING HERE
I HAVE READ THROUGH THIS WHOLE THREAD, AND gh15 SPEAKS THE TRUTH.::)
MILOS IS FAMILIAR WITH IT AND HE KNOWS SOME PPL TAKE IT.
HOWEVER WHAT MILOS IS TRYIN TO SAY :
SOME PPL JUS NEED A FEW DBOLS TO GROW OTHERS NEED MORE.
DRUGS ARE ALWAYS OPEN TO MISUSE, AND ABUSE, JUS LOOK AT RECREATIONAL DRUG USERS, SO ITS NOT SUPRISING, THAT PPL WILL UP DOSAGES AS RESISTANCE/EFFECT OF THE DRUGS ARE LESS. COMBINE THIS WITH DRUG PURITY, ALL THE FAKE GH/DILUTED GH THAT FLIES ABOUT, (ASK PALUMBO WHY HE RECCOMENDS 50 NOT 5 igf !)
ALSO BECOMING A PRO TAKES TIME, U DONT ADD 100 LBS OF MUSCLE IN ONE CYCLE, IT TAKES MANY MANY CYCLES!
10 LBS IS A GOOD SOLID GAIN ON 1 CYCLE.
ALSO THERES SO MANY DRUGS, TAKE FOR EXAMPLE A NATURAL DOING CARDIO, HE COULD JUS DO IT NATURALLY, OR TAKE
EPHEDRINE
OR EPHEDRINE, CAFFEINE,
OR EPHEDRINE CAFF, ASP, T3 ETC ETC
COMBINATIONS THERES A LOT TO CHOOSE FROM THIS IS PROBABLY PRO'S PREF, HE LL DECIDE WHAT TO USE IF IT WORKED ON LAST CYCLE, IF HE USED A COMBINATION LAST CYCLE HE DONT ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE PROGRESS, SO HELL USE WHATEVER HE USED LAST TIME AND THEN SOME!!!
...I also know of two top IFBB pros who took ridiculously low dosages for 3-5 months out of the year. One took 2nd in the Mr. O twice and the other placed in the top six....
::)
Unless you name names what you've just written is bullshit.
Shawn Ray is the only person to have been 2nd in the Mr. O twice... Levrone did it 4x, and Flex and Jay 3x each.
300 pounds is maintainance weight for a lot of americans. ronnie just have a better muscle mass/fat ratio because of his superior genetics and training regime.
Brutal lower boat hublot european view of america. ;Dyou are the perfect example of the chubby all american kid desperately seeking to better his looks but to no avail
you are the perfect example of the chubby all American kid desperately seeking to better his looks but to no avail
you are as natural as an american supermarket tomatoe... ::)
My body contains yours in its entirety... And I'm natural with hair.
I can understand your frustration.
you are as natural as an american supermarket tomatoe... ::)
Why is it so hard for you to beleive? Serious?BECAUSE YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT ..Hope this helps... ;)
BECAUSE YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT ..Hope this helps... ;)
besides being chubby,,,what else would u like to show me??..show me a current pic...YOU ARE FUNNY LOOKING :)
besides being chubby,,,what else would u like to show me??..show me a current pic...
My 16yo self owns you and the recent ones destroy you.nope it does not....and u know it
All naturally ;D
nope it does not....and u know it
front relax, me at 16 against you best shot.how about wehave a poll and make a new topic out of it...wanna go?...like I did with arvilla...
I own you.
how about wehave a poll and make a new topic out of it...wanna go?...like I did with arvilla...
So you wanna go head to head with my 16 year version?no..with your best shots...current i guesss....i got a a pic at 15 that is better than your 16..so...wanna go or not? it's a challenge
no..with your best shots...current i guesss....i got a a pic at 15 that is better than your 16..so...wanna go or not? it's a challenge
U look like a piece of shit.hahahahha oh brother everyone is a cage fighter hahahahahah
U look like a piece of shit.
look for the truth to be somewhat in the middle... gh15 is excess.. milos is not admitting to the whole dark truth.
what would his incentive be for not telling us the "whole" truth?
The dumber they are the bigger they get.
unfortunately abuse of androgenic makes muscle growth and atrophied the brain.
What’s a “cycle”? ???
(https://j.gifs.com/6Xx2rQ.gif)
I know that 6g a week and 100 iu insulin a day isnt unheard of as a pro
Milos, GH15 posted this cycle claiming it was one of the top IFBB Pro's cycle
no offence to him but IMO, it is complete bullshit and I have a hard time believing someone use even 1/2 of that
what's your opinion ?
ok
i got dozens of members here asking me for an example for pro bodybuilder cycles,,as i said many times before in general,,we do not get completely off drugs we only reduce the number of products/doses etc,,
what i will do here is give you a typical top pro routine,,THIS SHOULD NOT BE IMMITATED! THIS IS FOR BODYBUILDERS THAT HAVE BEEN THROUGH ALL STAGES OF HORMONE USE,,THIS IS NOT FOR BEGGINERS NOR IS IT FOR THE RECREATIONAL USER! i did not write the following but it is best describe a high level pro bodybuilder routine and i confirm this post
again be careful and dont think that by doing the same you will get same results,,you need the genetic response to be there in the first place! you need to be able to compete locally and do well with a lot less hormones
enjoy
PRE-CONTEST:
10-7 WEEKS OUT
250 mg sustanon per day
250 mg testopan (enanthate) per day
1000 Deca Durabolin
Humatrope Growth Hormone, 6 units per, 6 times a day!! (Five times a week)
Long-Acting Insulin 100 units in the morning
Fast Acting insulin 25 units per meal (he is now to scared to eat without insulin)
Oxymethelone (whatever type he can get) 5x50mg tabs
300 mcg T3 per day
200-mcg clen (taken five days on 2 days off)
Nubain 5 ml a day, 3 times a week (supposedly to reduce the addictiveness)
Glucophage, taken before workouts, 4,000mg
He does do IGF-1 but he limits it to 4 week cycles as he believes that most of the research on this shows limited length of time of effectiveness. He will then follow this up with a 4-week break
80 mg fluxoetine (prozac) to help with the chemical imbalances and to assist him to keep stress from the drugs down
180 mg Ephedrine Hydrochloride, before workouts
6-2 WEEKS OUT:
4,000 mg Testosterone Propionate
2 vials of Masteron
2 vials of Parabolan
10 tabs of halotestin per day, before training
DNP for a week in weeks 6,4 and 2
Clenbuterol on alternating weeks at 400mcg per day
T3 400mcg per day
Nubain as above
Insulin as above
Growth Hormone 6 units 6 times per day
IGF-1 for the four weeks to week 2 at 100 mcg per day.
100mg of fluxoetine (prozac)
Ephedrine as above
I estimate the mg’s at somewhere around 6,500 to 7,000 mgs a week
WEEKS 2 AND FIRST HALF OF WEEK 1:
Same as above except the Nubain is dropped, as it is unnecessary, as well as the IGF-1 is dropped.
Also one extra ampoule of Parabolan and Masteron per day.
LAST THREE DAYS:
Uses neoton 500, creatine phosphate (its an injectable I believe) in his carb deplete/load, he was unspecific on dosages
Two days out he uses Lasix (still a favorite) 80 mg four times a day, for two days.
The newest thing out is a plasma expander, by the name of
Groenaut, apparently from Europe, this works much in the same way as Glycerol in that it drams water out from underneath the skin and into the muscle and bloodstream leaving a very dry full look if it is done correctly, of course as with high stakes bodybuilding there is that ever apparent degree of risk, the risk here is mixing a diuretic which dumps the water from the system and a drug that tries to pull the water in, if the effect is too great, the least that could happen is that you don’t fill out and you look flat, dry but flat, the worst well the drug tends to favor skeletal muscle over smooth cardiac muscle, hence you are then in shit street as your heart dehydrates, and cardiac arrest kicks in, (not the same thing as Momo, though).
There are a lot of other drugs that are used such as amphetamines to help blunt the appetite and to give him energy as he gets closer to a show, as his body fat drops down to below 5 percent, he tends to feel very ill and tired, he also uses a lot of immuno stimulating supplements so he doesn’t get sick, of course as he is wired from the amphetamines he has to use xanax, halicon and valium (rotated to reduce reliance on a certain drug supposedly).
On show day the use of insulin before going on stage to get the last bit of fullness and bring out his vascularity, (up close this guy has veins that an octopus would envy. Shooting 10 units I.V before going on but after any pumping up he does
Whoever would take this seriously also believes in Santa...
I will cross the line and say little more than I should - but most of the SMART PROS...and there ARE MANY take:
500 - 1000 mg of TEST/week
+
250 - 1000mg of OTHER ANABOLICS along with it....with antiestrogen of choice.
Not all take GH and INSULIN...and if they do it is 2-6 IU of GH/day + 5-40 IU of insulin/day
This is more like it
This is more like it
Bumping because thread is a great laugh... Milos vs GH15 ;D ;D
This is more like it
I ran into a friend of mine, ex bodybuilder, 3rd at nationals in heavyweight class in early 2000's... offseason stack used to be 1g test, 600mg deca, 400mg eq every week, 50/50 mix of dbol/drol everyday, 20iu slin on training days, and 4iu hgh ed.... guy weighed 260 at 5'8 on stage.. no reason to lie at this point in his life.. contest cycle was prop, tren, winstrol.. no gh, no slin, no t3, some clen….. that list is bullshit on page one
This is more like it
Coach come on man. I’m not even into that scene but 500-1,00mgs of test for a competitive pro? Maybe guys just doing tiny shows at high school gyms. Scott Milne is a buddy of mine he wouldn’t do any less than 3gs of test alone while prepping. Even not competing he would do double what you say. The gh you presume they are taking is also low. I’m surprised you’re saying this, being in the scene. Or you don’t want to admit openly which makes sense too. Or you just don’t know.
Anything more than 1grm of test is almost a waste although some push it more thinkkng more is better and that’s just not the case.QFT
“Humatrope Growth Hormone, 6 units per, 6 times a day!! (Five times a week)
Long-Acting Insulin 100 units in the morning
Fast Acting insulin 25 units per meal (he is now to scared to eat without insulin)”
The side effects from 36IU of GH alone would be debilitating. The massive amounts food alone just to keep up with the insulin would kill you if not, damn near.
The daily-multiple shots of anabolics would be time consuming, leave enough scar tissue to limit injection sites not to mention the pain and raising the chance of infection. How do you train with this? You almost can’t which proves even more that list is bullshit
these threads - roll eyes
Why ?
Opinions & experiences Vary
many bbers lie they take "so little" to sound better due to super genetics/diet/training
many bbers lie they take a ton to sound like a badass
so many claim "natty" ???
Peds often faked and not all doses are the same
message boards are a double edged sword with PED advice -
No doubt but the one posted on the first page isn’t even in the realm of a possibility
You mean pro’s aren’t taking 400 mcg of t3 and 180 of effedrine a day lol. I myself do like effedrine but 32-40 and I’m more than good. T3 I have tried up to 100 and that was way too high. That stuff is weird.
I can't recall...are standard ephedrine tablets 8mg each?
If so, yeah, 32-40mg would be just about right for a person who is eating well, doing cardio, and has a good metabolism. 180mg would be quite excessive - yikes! I would worry about side effects like a racing heartbeat.
Again...complete bullshit
“10 tabs of halotestin per day, before training“
As for the stimulants....300mcg T3, 200mcg Clen then add in certain weeks of DNP + 180mg ephedrine = damn near death
I never went over 50mcg of T3 or 50mcg Clen at anytime during my prep and DNP never even entered my mind.
I had a great prep diet and 60-90min cardio per day. If you can’t get by with that then your prep coach sucks and I don’t care who it is.
Whoever would take this seriously also believes in Santa...
I will cross the line and say little more than I should - but most of the SMART PROS...and there ARE MANY take:
500 - 1000 mg of TEST/week
+
250 - 1000mg of OTHER ANABOLICS along with it....with antiestrogen of choice.
Not all take GH and INSULIN...and if they do it is 2-6 IU of GH/day + 5-40 IU of insulin/day
You're now competing on the Olympic stage. It took you decades of training and sacrifice. Sacrificing virtually every facet of your life: health, social, financial... And you got there on a gram/wk of Test, a gram of anabolics/wk (Deca, Eq, Primo...) and cycling orals in and out (50-100mg/daily dbol/drol). Then you got your 6iugh and 40 slin/day. At that level you know you are genetically gifted and really have a shot at the top. To be the best in the world at something.
Let's say you're Milos. Milos is a very intelligent guy. Could have been an engineer or a doctor and follow in his father's footsteps. But he decided to give all that up and pursue his passion of being a bodybuilder. To be the best in the world. He made it to the top five Mr. O but there are other guys just as talented and hungry as he is. There are people that are so driven that they will do anything to be number one. Milos has years of experience and vast knowledge of training and nutrition. He will continually try to manipulate every aspect of bodybuilding to advance, even using site enhancement -- even trying to fake it if it means it will increase his chances of winning. This is his life. He's already at his peak years but there are guys just as talented, maybe more so, and just as driven: Levrone, Flex, Cormier, Dillet and the new freak, Dorian Yates. Who knows what they're doing? The years are fading fast. He has sacrificed so much. could have been a doctor. This is it. It's now or never.
And we are supposed to believe that he would limit himself to 2 grams of injects per week at $60/wk, and 50-100 mg of orals ($30/wk) and 6ius gh (price varies but Dorian said he was paying $1iu back in his day) and the Humulin R is $25 for 1,000ius at Walmart today. He wants to stand next to Dorian and not disappear and will inject oil in his arms but limit himself to what a local competitor here considers an off season "cruise" cycle? No matter what your genetics, at that level, no matter how much of a freak you are, you always want to be better.
Three grams of gear a week top five Mr. Olympia and you're not going to see what an extra gram will do to an already maxed out physique. Not push that gh to 15ius/day which is what gh15 says it starts at the pro level hence the name. My QP with cheese costs more than that daily dose of slin. Can't just bump it up a bit and see where it takes you? After all, it's only your life's dream and ambition and that window of opportunity is closing slowly and you keep losing year after year.
Milo, like all bbers, is lying through his teeth.
I completely and understand your analogy but I have to back Milos on this. There comes a point in time of diminishing returns to where more isn’t better and often detrimental. Let’s take analogy of the 15IU per day. Even though on the first page it’s lists I think 36IUs per day of GH, I said that alone would be a debilitation and would make it damn near impossible to train. Although 15IUs is quite a bit less, it would still cause numbness, joint pain, muscle pain, fluid retention and more. Anymore than 6IUs on most people will create the numbness but as far as the anabolics goes, you’ll more than likely get the same results of using a total (test included) 2-3000grms per week and that’s pushing it, as you would taking 4-5grms. Why? Because I’m most that extra won’t see any real significant improvements, as a matter of fact usually anything over 2500-3000 you start seeing real side effects.
When the side effects kick in that’s when it’s time to cut back and readjust. Don’t believe the crazy shit posted. Some talk about being addicted. When you’re taking more gear than you think you need, that’s an addiction. More is not better.
For the sake of this discussion and it’s doses, I’m talking about pre-contest 12-16 weeks out. Off season SHOULD be significantly less minus the GH/Insulin which shouldn’t go over 6IU/20IU in any given day. 6IUs might be pushing it.
To address additional points you made, I don't know how you can possibly know that going from two grams to four grams will most likely get the same results when so many others will demonstrably dispute that.
Others such as? Aside from an anonymous faceless GH15, who has ever advocated from doubling gear from 2 grams/week to 4 grams/week? Everybody anecdotally knows that diminishing returns kick in once you exceed a gram of test/week.
Will 1,500 mg net more gains than 1,000 mg? Sure, but it won't be an additional 50%... This is well supported in the scientific literature, with diminishing returns kicking in (slowly) in excess of 600 mg test/week.
I believe the truth lies somewhere between Milos and GH15, but much closer to Milos than to GH15. 1g/week as Mr O is absurd, but not as absurd as GH15's wish list.
To address additional points you made, I don't know how you can possibly know that
going from two grams to four grams will most likely get the same results when so many others will demonstrably dispute that. And certainly my unfortunate manager was fully functional on 18ius of hgh/day and our own Spike said he didn't really start getting to the next level until he increased the gh to 10ius/day.
And yes, nobody is recommending a blasting cycle year round. Hence the term "Blast and Cruise". I'm sure many go to gh15 extremes but no one on the Olympia stage is there on two grams/6ius a week. We just had the Shawn Ray Classic here and those that I know well that competed are taking much more than that. You can say that all their genetics sucks but they will push the envelope to win an amateur show. Imagine a pro whose life depends on it?
Yes, there are diminishing returns. There are side effects even at therapeutic dosage that are amplified when abused. But nobody bodybuilds at an advanced level to improve their health.
Anabolics will take you to another level at a given dose and then stagnate. Then you have to increase the dose to support the additional muscle mass. He used the analogy of weight gaining. You are at a certain weight at a given amount of calories. You increase that by 800 calories a day and you will slowly start to gain weight. Eventually, you'll reach a limit and now you have to increase the calories even more to gain more weight. And once you go back down to the original caloric intake you will slowly go back to your original weight. Just like when you stop juicing you will slowly start to lose muscle mass getting back to the original amount of muscle you naturally can carry given the same diet and training protocol.
I completely and understand your analogy
a former pro who competed up until 2011 in the 202 class told me he was taking 200mgs tren and 400mgs test a week and that does he was at his best...
a former pro who competed up until 2011 in the 202 class told me he was taking 200mgs tren and 400mgs test a week and that does he was at his best...
This is well supported in the scientific literature, with diminishing returns kicking in (slowly) in excess of 600 mg test/week.
Others such as? Aside from an anonymous faceless GH15, who has ever advocated from doubling gear from 2 grams/week to 4 grams/week? Everybody anecdotally knows that diminishing returns kick in once you exceed a gram of test/week.
Will 1,500 mg net more gains than 1,000 mg? Sure, but it won't be an additional 50%... This is well supported in the scientific literature, with diminishing returns kicking in (slowly) in excess of 600 mg test/week.
I believe the truth lies somewhere between Milos and GH15, but much closer to Milos than to GH15. 1g/week as Mr O is absurd, but not as absurd as GH15's wish list.
different guys respond differently to high dosages of different compounds.
myself, if I went super high on AAS, I would just feel lethargic and would actually, if I went high enough, start to lose muscle. but I could go extremely high on GH, and just get better and better results (though my hands would get numb, yes).
other guys can go very high on AAS, but cant go as high on GH.
they say one of the main differences between the pros and the amateurs, is that the pros can not only use very high dosages, but they can get the most out of them. for example, one guy might not be able to get more gains by increasing his dosage (beyond a certain point). but if another guy can double his gains by doubling his dosage, then the second guy has the potential to be a lot better than the first (assuming he can do so while staying healthy).
as far as upper limits... King Kamali recently talked about guys using as much as 50iu of GH per day. And I know that happens more often than people think, especially with the extremely affordable, extremely potent, extremely high dosed kits one can find these days.
true but cycling down to a lower dosage (say, HRT levels) can work to "resensitize" the body. Say a guy uses 1,500mg as a blast for 10 weeks, then drops back down to say 10-20mg per day for a few months. Most guys will be able to hold on to the majority of their muscle during that time, and when they jump back on to a blast a few months later, will experience a new surge in growth. Of course, this has its limits. But take for example Phil Heath - he says he has been using lower dosages this past year, and I for one believe him. Yet he looks absolutely massive. I am willing to bet that when he jumps back on to make this comeback, he is going to blow past his 2018 form and come in looking much, much freakier than he would have if he would not have taken the year off to build/maintain size on lower dosages and resensitize his body.
Oh boy... Where to begin. I'm no stranger to pushing the envelope with doses (PEDs or otherwise), but some of this is clearly sensationalized bullshit.
1- the first part the test, deca, and anadrol were pretty accurate.
2- , the t3 and clen is a joke. As is the insulin and glucophage (metformin)... Even with the 36iu of humatrope. And starting with 36 IU's of humatrope, you would never feel your f****** hands and you'd be tired as shit, even *if* you'd take that bullshit 200mg ephedrine dose.
3- NOBODY would/could use 5ml Nubain for only 3dsys a week.
4- on the 6-2wks out, 400 microgram t3 and 400mcg/day is retarded, especially wibth the 200mg of ephedrine. Just retarded.
5- nobody's just "stopping" Nubain after 8 f'n weeks on.
6- .then he adds "amphetamine" on top on the ridiculous 180mg/day ephedrine.
7- & he claims at add Xanax,Valium, and/or Halcion (one of the hardest be.
8- 10iu prior to getting onstage would do next to nothing aside from helping him spillover.
Ha ha ha...and with that you lose all credibility Mishko ;D
In all seriousness though, both Mishko & gh15 are right. I personally know several national level guys, as well as IFBB pros who are using what gh15 outlined...and then some! They are dumb as fuck and think that becasue their current blood work is okay, that they are fine ::) And they do spend an ungodly amount of money on their gear. One guy sticks himself 5+ times PER DAY during pre contest :o
I also know of two top IFBB pros who took ridiculously low dosages for 3-5 months out of the year. One took 2nd in the Mr. O twice and the other placed in the top six. Both of these guys had unbelievable genetics when it came to responding to gear.
Guys i can back Milos 100% with this post!!! the astronomical amounts of steroids, gh, insulin etc that the general public think alot of the pro's take is just ridiculous!!!!! I can honestly say having helped alot of amateurs myself prepare for shows is the first thing i do is cut there cycles in half and than maybe half again!!! they have this inscane belief that taking this ridiculous amounts will make this a professional bodbuilder more faster and than get on the Olympia stage!!! achieving a pro card is one thing but competing in the Olympia is the highest level a pro can obtain! but having said does this mean the very top guys in the sport are abusing??? NO WAY!!!! look at the very elite, Jay, Ronnie, Melvin, Dexter, Dennis, Victor, Gustavo etc......these guys have been around in the elite level for almost 10 years!!! WHY??? not because they abuse but like Milos said because they are smart!!!! the guys who come in like a flash and exit just as fast as the guys more likely taking the most risk!
Lee Priest once said "There would be guys in a Mr Olympia audience who have never ever competed taking more gear than the the actual Mr Olympia competitors on stage"!!! nothing could be further from the truth!
All this talk yet Luke had kidney failure, and later died from getting a transplant
Yeah, low dosages on his behalf ::)
Forgot, it was all genetics and predisposed condition.....
I doubt any scientific studies have been done on advanced bodybuilders with a long history of moderate to high dosages...That was my thought.
All this talk yet Luke had kidney failure, and later died from getting a transplant
Yeah, low dosages on his behalf ::)
Forgot, it was all genetics and predisposed condition.....
Give us your guess of a typical pro cycle beginning 3 months out.
You'll get flamed no matter what you say but often the actual supplier has a better idea of what is being use then what the user actually claims.
Ha ha ha...and with that you lose all credibility Mishko ;D
In all seriousness though, both Mishko & gh15 are right. I personally know several national level guys, as well as IFBB pros who are using what gh15 outlined...and then some! They are dumb as fuck and think that becasue their current blood work is okay, that they are fine ::) And they do spend an ungodly amount of money on their gear. One guy sticks himself 5+ times PER DAY during pre contest :o
I also know of two top IFBB pros who took ridiculously low dosages for 3-5 months out of the year. One took 2nd in the Mr. O twice and the other placed in the top six. Both of these guys had unbelievable genetics when it came to responding to gear.
Depends on how much they have to spend.
A lot of ppl here, or in general, believe guys spend "astronomical" amounts on gear. The gear is cheap, especially when they're buying in "bulk", either all 3-4months worth at once, or paying once a month... Especially a pro, since the supplier wants to be the one who supplies the winner...although that could go the opposite way as well, and they'll pay an extra 10-20%, just because we know they can afford it. Depends on the relationship we have with the client/customer.
Either way, the gear part is cheap. The GH is the biggest expenditure (I typically never felt with GH because the production is out of my hands and I can't guarantee the quality/legitimacy of the GH, unless I got it from an AIDs/HIV patient, and even then the most I could get would be something like 8 kits a month from 2 guys (they usually get 1kit a week of serostim). Secondly, the profit margin didn't justify the risk of carrying it. Anyways...
A typical cycle these days (at least since I got back in in '11/'12) are generally 4-6g/wk, and that's been the case since at least the late 90's. The smart guys keep it simple and the majority is gonna be test, then 1-2 "anabolics" (deca typically, some like eq although I think it's garbage". Say 4g test and 2g deca, or 1g deca and an oral at 100mg/day of dbol or 200-300mg/day anadrol).
Same goes for precontest. The test typically starts high, they goes down come closer to the show as the non-aromatizing stuff goes up, but typically the test doesn't go below 1g up till show week (as AIs increase).
Say,
Test cyp/enan the first 2months then down to prop,Ace,susp,tne. (The TNE can be tricky to make at a decent dose, as is test Ace) the final month/wks.
Add in non-aromatizing drugs. Tren. 100-150/day is plenty. Same with Masterson. And if they can afford it primo Ace, along with anavar, cutting the var out at maybe a month out and adding oral winstrol at 100/day and anadrol at 150-200/day to maintain a full-hard look to the muscle. I rarely see ppl hold much sub-q water from drol. Seems to hold the water intramuscularly. I also prefer proviron at 50-100mg #1 for sex drive and #2 to suppress SHBG and increasing free/unbound test.
Again, doses and drugs depend on how much they can afford while using a decent dose of GH (at least 4iu. Ideally above 8... Timing the doses around meals/workouts/etc...is a whole nother subject). Insulin would be used sparingly, checking blood sugar and using enough to keep blood sugar 90-100 and cutting it out completely at maybe 10days out (depending on the person and how long it takes them to lose the sug-q water from the slin), and possibly dropping the GH as well for the same reason.
Clen is wait to start until 4-6wks into the diet, as with t3. Clen starting at 20 and building up to maybe 120-140, splitting doses at 20mcg each. Higher doses at once is where you get the neg sides (hand cramps, racing heart rate, tremors, etc). T3 I'd start 2-3wks after the clen and doses depending on if the guy tends to be either an Endo/meso/ ecto. Starting at 12.5mcg and usually going no higher than 50.
ECA stack im the typical doses of 25/200/200 in the morning and pre-workout. Not a big fan of stims, but they can be a necessary evil wind trying to function throughout the day while number one dieting and number two on decent doses of GH.l
AI's depend on the guys preference. Personally I don't care for femara as it completely destroys my sex drive no matter how many grams of testosterone and mgs of proviron I'm running, but I find it the most effective., With Aromasin at just 25mgs a close 2nd. I also like nolva at just 10mgs as well. (I've told the story before about how I know guys who run 40 / 16 + mg of nolvadex a day, while I've personally known a woman oh, and overweight woman in her forties with huge watermelon tits who got the genetic testing done and found out she had the gene for breast cancer and ran in her family her mom died of it her grandma died of it her sister had it etc, and since she was premenopausal the doctor put her on nolvadex at just 10 mg per day and her f****** watermelon tits shrink down to like small grapefruits within just like 2 months maybe three. And she obviously had a hell of lot more estrogen in her then a male bodybuilder.)
Running HCG during the cycle is just retarded and you're just running the risk of desensitizing your leydigs cells so if you ever want to have kids when you finally decide to "retire" from bbing and using the year-round doses required. Not to mention it has a huge tendency to cause gyno, acne, and water retention.
Clearly we know different pro’s & top level amateurs
I don’t dispute some / many are taking huge doses.
Don’t believe all & sundry have to use Ridiculously large amounts,
Plus if you would Name these pro’s it might add some credibility.
Each to their own.
Legit GH is very easy to get and relatively affordable
Some guys use a ton of it (15 to 50iu or more/day), other guys not so much (2-4iu/day)
HCG is safe at 500iu/day, but effective at as low as 250iu/week. No reason not to use it except perhaps the last week or two before a show
What do bbers consider low or high, that is the question, isn’t all relative in ways?
There is a reason not to use HCG. It's called desensitization of the leydigs cells, which is number one necessary if you ever want to have children. And number two completely pointless and unnecessary if you're already injecting exogenous testosterone. But hey, if you want acne, gyno, water retention, and a decreased chance you'll be able to produce children in the future, go ahead and shoot HCG every week.doctors say studies show long-term use @ 500iu/day presents no risk for desensitization
There is a reason not to use HCG. It's called desensitization of the leydigs cells, which is number one necessary if you ever want to have children. And number two completely pointless and unnecessary if you're already injecting exogenous testosterone. But hey, if you want acne, gyno, water retention, and a decreased chance you'll be able to produce children in the future, go ahead and shoot HCG every week.
Luke Wood in 2007 - Pro's don't take that many drugs
Luke Wood in 2012 -
Obviously pro bodybuilders take as much gear as they possibly can. They also pretend that they don't do this and take moderate doses as genetics and training, etc are more important. Very, very few admit the truth as it reflects badly on them and could lead to copy cats endangering themselves. I know even in my gym at the bottom level people are taking more than they admit, at least in most cases.
I'm sure a lot of people lie, especially ones that look like shit.
But as I've gotten older, I'm more inclined to believe the pros who say it's not all gear. The ones I tend to believe is the ones that say they use moderate doses. Plenty of them have claimed on a podcast that they keep test below 1 gram, simply because they don't like it, GH only at max 6iu a day because they don't see much difference going higher and not worth the money. I've heard a few say they like to keep test at around 750mg or below and throw in an anabolic at around 400 to 600mg. Nothing crazy. Now this is for the offseason so maybe they go harder precontest.
You do have to factor in genetics, diet and most importantly consistency. Doesn't mean eat all your meals for the day. But day in and day out for years doing everything right.
Now before I get ridiculed for being naive, here is my own personal experience. Attached is a 'before and after' pic. The before is back around 2011, when I was reading GH15 and though gear was the answer. I was running as per GH15 recommendation for a 'standard cycle', 700 Test Prop, 700 Tren Ace, 700 Mast Prop and I think I also had T3 in there and maybe some oral. The other pic is from this year. I was running 350 Test Prop, 350 Tren Ace, and 350 Mast Prop, also ran some clen at 80mcg. This was the for 6 weeks before the pic was taken. Prior 6 weeks to that I was doing 250 test E per week, and 400 Tren E per week.
Now my genetics absolutely suck for bodybuilding. And actually I'm not even a 'bodybuilder'. I'm too tall with way to long limbs. But I managed to make huge improvements the last couple years. Mainly, I learned how to diet properly (down and to grow), I learned how to actually work the muscle instead of just moving the weight (believe it or not in the before pic, I was actually able to bench 365 for reps with no spotter... can't do that anymore, don't even bench anymore).
So again, I don't have a 'pro physique', I'm not genetically gifted but if I can get this kind of results with half the gear that I used before and didn't even look like I worked out, by simply doing things properly and sticking to it, imagine what someone with genetics meant for bodybuilding could achieve.
Just my thoughts.
HCG can definitely cause gyno. even at small doses, sometimes even more than with a hefty T dsg
to keep your balls fully functional, use 75iu LH 2 or max. 3 times a week
and even that small amount can get you puffy nipples
elaborate on the proviron-to-suppress-shbg-and-increase-T-theory if you will
the internet gave me this explanation: "One of the ways that it can increase testosterone is by binding to sex hormone binding globulin, or SHBG. This substance floats around in the bloodstream and picks up excess hormones, such as testosterone."
IF this is what you're saying i'd say that's way too weak, even for bro science measures
but maybe you're saying something else
doctors say studies show long-term use @ 500iu/day presents no risk for desensitization
Not using HCG means the balls can permanently shrink and recovery will take much longer too
Neither I nor anyone I've ever read has reported acne or gyno from HCG - and it makes sense, since it won't cause a supraphysiological level of either test or estro
Picking up where I left off at on like page 10 or 11. Aside from Milos, the deceased Luke Wood, illuminati and myself, it’s pretty clear very few if anyone knows what a “pro cycle” looks like and thinks it’s more than it really is.
It’s like watching the impeachment hearing. Lots of hearsay
Picking up where I left off at on like page 10 or 11. Aside from Milos, the deceased Luke Wood, illuminati and myself, it’s pretty clear very few if anyone knows what a “pro cycle” looks like and thinks it’s more than it really is.
It’s like watching the impeachment hearing. Lots of hearsay
Picking up where I left off at on like page 10 or 11. Aside from Milos, the deceased Luke Wood, illuminati and myself, it’s pretty clear very few if anyone knows what a “pro cycle” looks like and thinks it’s more than it really is.
It’s like watching the impeachment hearing. Lots of hearsay
Coach it’s not hearsay when guys are dying. Like what more do you need, one pro on hear defending what you’re saying died from what he says isn’t true.
So mindspin and onemorerep don’t have any credibility? ::)
No one ever said EVERYONE is taking tons of gear
I'm sure a lot of people lie, especially ones that look like shit.
But as I've gotten older, I'm more inclined to believe the pros who say it's not all gear. The ones I tend to believe is the ones that say they use moderate doses. Plenty of them have claimed on a podcast that they keep test below 1 gram, simply because they don't like it, GH only at max 6iu a day because they don't see much difference going higher and not worth the money. I've heard a few say they like to keep test at around 750mg or below and throw in an anabolic at around 400 to 600mg. Nothing crazy. Now this is for the offseason so maybe they go harder precontest.
You do have to factor in genetics, diet and most importantly consistency. Doesn't mean eat all your meals for the day. But day in and day out for years doing everything right.
Now before I get ridiculed for being naive, here is my own personal experience. Attached is a 'before and after' pic. The before is back around 2011, when I was reading GH15 and though gear was the answer. I was running as per GH15 recommendation for a 'standard cycle', 700 Test Prop, 700 Tren Ace, 700 Mast Prop and I think I also had T3 in there and maybe some oral. The other pic is from this year. I was running 350 Test Prop, 350 Tren Ace, and 350 Mast Prop, also ran some clen at 80mcg. This was the for 6 weeks before the pic was taken. Prior 6 weeks to that I was doing 250 test E per week, and 400 Tren E per week.
Now my genetics absolutely suck for bodybuilding. And actually I'm not even a 'bodybuilder'. I'm too tall with way to long limbs. But I managed to make huge improvements the last couple years. Mainly, I learned how to diet properly (down and to grow), I learned how to actually work the muscle instead of just moving the weight (believe it or not in the before pic, I was actually able to bench 365 for reps with no spotter... can't do that anymore, don't even bench anymore).
So again, I don't have a 'pro physique', I'm not genetically gifted but if I can get this kind of results with half the gear that I used before and didn't even look like I worked out, by simply doing things properly and sticking to it, imagine what someone with genetics meant for bodybuilding could achieve.
Just my thoughts.
Didn’t see what mines been or one more rep wrote
I'm sure a lot of people lie, especially ones that look like shit.
But as I've gotten older, I'm more inclined to believe the pros who say it's not all gear. The ones I tend to believe is the ones that say they use moderate doses. Plenty of them have claimed on a podcast that they keep test below 1 gram, simply because they don't like it, GH only at max 6iu a day because they don't see much difference going higher and not worth the money. I've heard a few say they like to keep test at around 750mg or below and throw in an anabolic at around 400 to 600mg. Nothing crazy. Now this is for the offseason so maybe they go harder precontest.
You do have to factor in genetics, diet and most importantly consistency. Doesn't mean eat all your meals for the day. But day in and day out for years doing everything right.
Now before I get ridiculed for being naive, here is my own personal experience. Attached is a 'before and after' pic. The before is back around 2011, when I was reading GH15 and though gear was the answer. I was running as per GH15 recommendation for a 'standard cycle', 700 Test Prop, 700 Tren Ace, 700 Mast Prop and I think I also had T3 in there and maybe some oral. The other pic is from this year. I was running 350 Test Prop, 350 Tren Ace, and 350 Mast Prop, also ran some clen at 80mcg. This was the for 6 weeks before the pic was taken. Prior 6 weeks to that I was doing 250 test E per week, and 400 Tren E per week.
Now my genetics absolutely suck for bodybuilding. And actually I'm not even a 'bodybuilder'. I'm too tall with way to long limbs. But I managed to make huge improvements the last couple years. Mainly, I learned how to diet properly (down and to grow), I learned how to actually work the muscle instead of just moving the weight (believe it or not in the before pic, I was actually able to bench 365 for reps with no spotter... can't do that anymore, don't even bench anymore).
So again, I don't have a 'pro physique', I'm not genetically gifted but if I can get this kind of results with half the gear that I used before and didn't even look like I worked out, by simply doing things properly and sticking to it, imagine what someone with genetics meant for bodybuilding could achieve.
Just my thoughts.
If you think your genetics suck then most of us are doomed.
Pellius,
You made some solid points in your early comments, milos claims he’s on and others too, around 2 grams of anabolics not counting gh and slin, but yet milos injected oil in his arms and almost died, competing with Dorian. The thing about top level pros is, like you said, their mindset is to win at all costs, when you are a top 10 O competitors and want the edge, everyone is doing everything and anything to win. The fact that milos was known for “experimenting” combined with not a good reputation in this sport, says a lot. To believe what he is saying is most likely half the truth.
In recent interviews with Shawn Ray, where he interviewed Jean Pierre Fux, Jean said he got a bottle of synthol or something like that from a friend, just a little label, handwritten too, he said he injected it without even knowing if it was valid or not, was rushed to the hospital because he thought he was going to die. That should tell you something. The list goes on with Nasser, flex wheeler, Ronnie, etc
I’m sure there are a lot of guys that took “minimal” like Shawn, but these guys are taking risks, and doing whatever it takes to win. If Shawn stated he wasn’t going to do what it takes, what does that simply imply?
Even dexters IG page he posted a little sarcasm, saying when he turned 50 he was going to compete next year and putting everything towards the competition and said in his own words “I damn near killed myself this year.” “I will be better next year or die trying.” “So if you see or hear the blade passed. You’ll know why.” Hahaha of course sarcasm but still funny none the less. The mindset of a champion
It's well known that while he was competing Milos was known to use much higher doses than everybody else (except for a few, Titus, Nasser, etc). So what he used himself and what he has his athletes using arnt the same.
I'm sure a lot of people lie, especially ones that look like shit.
But as I've gotten older, I'm more inclined to believe the pros who say it's not all gear. The ones I tend to believe is the ones that say they use moderate doses. Plenty of them have claimed on a podcast that they keep test below 1 gram, simply because they don't like it, GH only at max 6iu a day because they don't see much difference going higher and not worth the money. I've heard a few say they like to keep test at around 750mg or below and throw in an anabolic at around 400 to 600mg. Nothing crazy. Now this is for the offseason so maybe they go harder precontest.
You do have to factor in genetics, diet and most importantly consistency. Doesn't mean eat all your meals for the day. But day in and day out for years doing everything right.
Now before I get ridiculed for being naive, here is my own personal experience. Attached is a 'before and after' pic. The before is back around 2011, when I was reading GH15 and though gear was the answer. I was running as per GH15 recommendation for a 'standard cycle', 700 Test Prop, 700 Tren Ace, 700 Mast Prop and I think I also had T3 in there and maybe some oral. The other pic is from this year. I was running 350 Test Prop, 350 Tren Ace, and 350 Mast Prop, also ran some clen at 80mcg. This was the for 6 weeks before the pic was taken. Prior 6 weeks to that I was doing 250 test E per week, and 400 Tren E per week.
Now my genetics absolutely suck for bodybuilding. And actually I'm not even a 'bodybuilder'. I'm too tall with way to long limbs. But I managed to make huge improvements the last couple years. Mainly, I learned how to diet properly (down and to grow), I learned how to actually work the muscle instead of just moving the weight (believe it or not in the before pic, I was actually able to bench 365 for reps with no spotter... can't do that anymore, don't even bench anymore).
So again, I don't have a 'pro physique', I'm not genetically gifted but if I can get this kind of results with half the gear that I used before and didn't even look like I worked out, by simply doing things properly and sticking to it, imagine what someone with genetics meant for bodybuilding could achieve.
Just my thoughts.
I was reading another forum thread from 2012,and this semi-known bodybuilder was giving some solid AAS advice in fact...
I google his name and sure enough,he's dead at 34.
https://www.evolutionofbodybuilding.net/death-of-matt-porter/
Looked like shit too. Not the results I would die for.
Seems like a gateway drug activity. Whenever there is an issue drugs are always the first choice to address an problem.
Bodybuilding with drugs = gateway to other addictions
Just when you think ot was enough to chemically castrate your body. You cant forget the head meds, and pain killer
- prozac, klonopin, nubian and opiates . A lot of these individuals are mental messes as a result.
And some skinny twink with a working dick willl cuck them ;D
Proscar/propecia is used for chemical castration,not anabolics.
Your logic is backwards.
You believe bodybuilders who use other drugs to medicate (self, and otherwise), started out as well-adjusted individuals. It's usually the other way around. How many bodybuilders started out training because they weren't happy with how they looked or felt? Skinny dudes, fat dudes, etc... Started training, felt better about themselves... Then realized they could use anabolics and improve more.
You realize that with drug addicts, drugs arnt the problem. They're the solution. The "problem" is with them and how they think. Take away the drugs and the problem is still there until they figure it out.
I'm sure a lot of people lie, especially ones that look like shit.
But as I've gotten older, I'm more inclined to believe the pros who say it's not all gear. The ones I tend to believe is the ones that say they use moderate doses. Plenty of them have claimed on a podcast that they keep test below 1 gram, simply because they don't like it, GH only at max 6iu a day because they don't see much difference going higher and not worth the money. I've heard a few say they like to keep test at around 750mg or below and throw in an anabolic at around 400 to 600mg. Nothing crazy. Now this is for the offseason so maybe they go harder precontest.
You do have to factor in genetics, diet and most importantly consistency. Doesn't mean eat all your meals for the day. But day in and day out for years doing everything right.
Now before I get ridiculed for being naive, here is my own personal experience. Attached is a 'before and after' pic. The before is back around 2011, when I was reading GH15 and though gear was the answer. I was running as per GH15 recommendation for a 'standard cycle', 700 Test Prop, 700 Tren Ace, 700 Mast Prop and I think I also had T3 in there and maybe some oral. The other pic is from this year. I was running 350 Test Prop, 350 Tren Ace, and 350 Mast Prop, also ran some clen at 80mcg. This was the for 6 weeks before the pic was taken. Prior 6 weeks to that I was doing 250 test E per week, and 400 Tren E per week.
Now my genetics absolutely suck for bodybuilding. And actually I'm not even a 'bodybuilder'. I'm too tall with way to long limbs. But I managed to make huge improvements the last couple years. Mainly, I learned how to diet properly (down and to grow), I learned how to actually work the muscle instead of just moving the weight (believe it or not in the before pic, I was actually able to bench 365 for reps with no spotter... can't do that anymore, don't even bench anymore).
So again, I don't have a 'pro physique', I'm not genetically gifted but if I can get this kind of results with half the gear that I used before and didn't even look like I worked out, by simply doing things properly and sticking to it, imagine what someone with genetics meant for bodybuilding could achieve.
Just my thoughts.
Proscar/propecia is used for chemical castration,not anabolics.
what is your thoughts on Propecia for hair loss for bbers?
Proscar/propecia is used for chemical castration,not anabolics.
Your logic is backwards.
You believe bodybuilders who use other drugs to medicate (self, and otherwise), started out as well-adjusted individuals. It's usually the other way around. How many bodybuilders started out training because they weren't happy with how they looked or felt? Skinny dudes, fat dudes, etc... Started training, felt better about themselves... Then realized they could use anabolics and improve more.
You realize that with drug addicts, drugs arnt the problem. They're the solution. The "problem" is with them and how they think. Take away the drugs and the problem is still there until they figure it out.
QFT
Woah woah woah.... *stop*the*press*
...did you two just agree on something..?
Proscar/propecia is used for chemical castration,not anabolics.
Your logic is backwards.
You believe bodybuilders who use other drugs to medicate (self, and otherwise), started out as well-adjusted individuals. It's usually the other way around. How many bodybuilders started out training because they weren't happy with how they looked or felt? Skinny dudes, fat dudes, etc... Started training, felt better about themselves... Then realized they could use anabolics and improve more.
You realize that with drug addicts, drugs arnt the problem. They're the solution. The "problem" is with them and how they think. Take away the drugs and the problem is still there until they figure it out.
what is your thoughts on Propecia for hair loss for bbers?
I don't recommend it. I recommend dutasteride Instead. Less chance of fucking up your sex drive. Google "post finasteride syndrome".
I'm sure a lot of people lie, especially ones that look like shit.Great physique, man.
But as I've gotten older, I'm more inclined to believe the pros who say it's not all gear. The ones I tend to believe is the ones that say they use moderate doses. Plenty of them have claimed on a podcast that they keep test below 1 gram, simply because they don't like it, GH only at max 6iu a day because they don't see much difference going higher and not worth the money. I've heard a few say they like to keep test at around 750mg or below and throw in an anabolic at around 400 to 600mg. Nothing crazy. Now this is for the offseason so maybe they go harder precontest.
You do have to factor in genetics, diet and most importantly consistency. Doesn't mean eat all your meals for the day. But day in and day out for years doing everything right.
Now before I get ridiculed for being naive, here is my own personal experience. Attached is a 'before and after' pic. The before is back around 2011, when I was reading GH15 and though gear was the answer. I was running as per GH15 recommendation for a 'standard cycle', 700 Test Prop, 700 Tren Ace, 700 Mast Prop and I think I also had T3 in there and maybe some oral. The other pic is from this year. I was running 350 Test Prop, 350 Tren Ace, and 350 Mast Prop, also ran some clen at 80mcg. This was the for 6 weeks before the pic was taken. Prior 6 weeks to that I was doing 250 test E per week, and 400 Tren E per week.
Now my genetics absolutely suck for bodybuilding. And actually I'm not even a 'bodybuilder'. I'm too tall with way to long limbs. But I managed to make huge improvements the last couple years. Mainly, I learned how to diet properly (down and to grow), I learned how to actually work the muscle instead of just moving the weight (believe it or not in the before pic, I was actually able to bench 365 for reps with no spotter... can't do that anymore, don't even bench anymore).
So again, I don't have a 'pro physique', I'm not genetically gifted but if I can get this kind of results with half the gear that I used before and didn't even look like I worked out, by simply doing things properly and sticking to it, imagine what someone with genetics meant for bodybuilding could achieve.
Just my thoughts.
Plenty anabolics also inhibit SHBG (tren being one, along with winstrol and Masterson), however I've always liked proviron and noticed a 50% increase in my free test when using proviron along with test. I forget the #'s of free test, but I've had total test levels above 10k @ I believe just 2-3 shots a wk of 300mg/ml cyp (my own), hell, it may've even been just 2 750mg shots a week.
Total test doesn't mean much if it's bound to SHBG, which prevents it from attaching to the androgen receptor. I'd rather have 2000ng w/ 20% of it unbound, rather than 4,000ng with 5% (it's actually more like 2% without somehow inhibiting shbg... It varies per person, per day, per whatever, obviously).
Your balls never shrink permanently. Even at 4g test a week, plus however much tren and other shit year 'round for yrs straight, my balls would only shrink once in a while, maybe 4x a year for only a few days to a week.
I've never been insecure about the size of my balls, and sure enough not enough to risk desensitizing the leydigs cells. Maybe if a guy has a small dick, the size of his balls might be all he has to offer to impress a girl when naked... I've never had that problem.
I don't recommend it. I recommend dutasteride Instead. Less chance of fucking up your sex drive. Google "post finasteride syndrome".
After I posted this ^⬆️ I get this ⬇️ in my YouTube feed.
http://[youtube][/youtube]