Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: BIG ACH on August 22, 2008, 08:57:45 AM
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Well since GET BIG is always accusing so many people who claim natural status as not being natural. I would like to see GET BIGGERS post pictures of guys who you believe is the furthest you can get as a natural?
So lets see them, without the use of PERFORMANCE ENHANCERS, what is the biggest / leanest / most shredded anyone can get naturally (ACCORDING TO GET BIG)?
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Whateva.
8)
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Whateva.
8)
Useless without pics!
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Whateva.
8)
Agreed.
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This guy probably.
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Well since GET BIG is always accusing so many people who claim natural status as not being natural. I would like to see GET BIGGERS post pictures of guys who you believe is the furthest you can get as a natural?
So lets see them, without the use of PERFORMANCE ENHANCERS, what is the biggest anyone can get naturally (ACCORDING TO GET BIG)?
It's not just the size that you need to take into account, it's the weight at a certain height and bf%, also vascularity etc Some guys just look juiced. It's hard to explain
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It's not just the size that you need to take into account, it's the weight at a certain height and bf%, also vascularity etc Some guys just look juiced. It's hard to explain
I agree with what you are saying!!! I was not talking just about size, but all the other things, so if thats how you believe, show me how far you can go naturally, size, conditioning, whats the limit, show me an example of what you believe is the limit for a natural?
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my friend is probably close.
(http://www.nogg.se/upload/78958/109830/Photo_78958_941843.jpg)
(http://www.nogg.se/upload/78958/107592/Photo_78958_874347.JPG)
(http://www.nogg.se/upload/78958/109830/Photo_78958_941842.jpg)
He is a monster Irl.
6"2 230.
Doesnt look close to that in photos though.
He has been working out for about 2 years and eats maby at MOST 3000kcal a day =(
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(http://www.undergroundstrengthcoach.com/public/images/Sandow.jpg)
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my friend is probably close.
(http://www.nogg.se/upload/78958/109830/Photo_78958_941843.jpg)
(http://www.nogg.se/upload/78958/107592/Photo_78958_874347.JPG)
(http://www.nogg.se/upload/78958/109830/Photo_78958_941842.jpg)
He is a monster Irl.
6"2 230.
Doesnt look close to that in photos though.
He has been working out for about 2 years and eats maby at MOST 3000kcal a day =(
you swedes are fucking idiots....of course hes not natural.....get a fucking grip
viking power
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you swedes are fucking idiots....of course hes not natural.....get a fucking grip
viking power
He is my friend and yes he is.
He has had a few operations on his heart so roids would probably kill him. =)
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He has been working out for about 2 years
Uh.....
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Sevatases
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Uh.....
I know huh? its sick.
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my friend is probably close.
(http://www.nogg.se/upload/78958/109830/Photo_78958_941843.jpg)
the problem is that if he were to enter a contest, he'd diet down to get leaner, and doing so lose all his mass.
it is not the amount of muscle that causes us to think someone is not natural, it is the amount of muscle while being in contest conditioning.
if everyone were to enter contests with the type of conditioning in the pic above, amateur bodybuilding would be more popular, healthier, and people would be more willing to believe it when someone claims to be natural.
but everyone tries to get down to 3-5% bodyfat, and you're not going to do that and keep your muscle mass without drugs.
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the problem is that if he were to enter a contest, he'd diet down to get leaner, and doing so lose all his mass.
it is not the amount of muscle that causes us to think someone is not natural, it is the amount of muscle while being in contest conditioning.
if everyone were to enter contests with the type of conditioning in the pic above, amateur bodybuilding would be more popular, healthier, and people would be more willing to believe it when someone claims to be natural.
but everyone tries to get down to 3-5% bodyfat, and you're not going to do that and keep your muscle mass without drugs.
Ok so answer the initial question, show us a picture of the farthest that a person can get in contest shape and still be natural?
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the problem is that if he were to enter a contest, he'd diet down to get leaner, and doing so lose all his mass.
it is not the amount of muscle that causes us to think someone is not natural, it is the amount of muscle while being in contest conditioning.
if everyone were to enter contests with the type of conditioning in the pic above, amateur bodybuilding would be more popular, healthier, and people would be more willing to believe it when someone claims to be natural.
but everyone tries to get down to 3-5% bodyfat, and you're not going to do that and keep your muscle mass without drugs.
Well said tim.
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the problem is that if he were to enter a contest, he'd diet down to get leaner, and doing so lose all his mass.
it is not the amount of muscle that causes us to think someone is not natural, it is the amount of muscle while being in contest conditioning.
if everyone were to enter contests with the type of conditioning in the pic above, amateur bodybuilding would be more popular, healthier, and people would be more willing to believe it when someone claims to be natural.
but everyone tries to get down to 3-5% bodyfat, and you're not going to do that and keep your muscle mass without drugs.
I agree. But I think is harder getting bigger then that natural. And in good condition as he is in.
and I Know he is a natural.
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my friend is probably close.
(http://www.nogg.se/upload/78958/109830/Photo_78958_941843.jpg)
Why is your "friend" grabbing his crotch and have a come hither dicksucking look on his face?
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Im trying to convince him to BULK a bit =)
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Why is your "friend" grabbing his crotch and have a come hither dicksucking look on his face?
LOL Panda AKA Mr Positive, how's the diet?
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also, what is his age? lot easier to build and maintain muscle mass when in your early 20s than in your 30s and 40s.
in the pre-steroid era, bodybuilding was a young man's sport. 30 was considered old, 35 very old.
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I know huh? its sick.
he forgot to incorporate pressing movements into his training regime.
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also, what is his age? lot easier to build and maintain muscle mass when in your early 20s than in your 30s and 40s.
in the pre-steroid era, bodybuilding was a young man's sport. 30 was considered old, 35 very old.
::) another clown who thinks your testosterone levels drop by 60 percent the second you hit 30.
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'teh' natural legend
Croatch
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also, what is his age? lot easier to build and maintain muscle mass when in your early 20s than in your 30s and 40s.
the golden age for muscularity is late twenties to mid 30s.
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::) another clown who thinks your testosterone levels drop by 60 percent the second you hit 30.
Yup.
Test immediately shuts down when you hit 30.
::) ::)
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'teh' natural legend
Croatch
Brutal tribal tat on arm and "USA" tattoo on leg making you look like a tit.
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also, what is his age? lot easier to build and maintain muscle mass when in your early 20s than in your 30s and 40s.
in the pre-steroid era, bodybuilding was a young man's sport. 30 was considered old, 35 very old.
How could you say that? bodybuilding is an age game , for one to build up that muscle maturity you need time, bodybuilders don't normally hit their peaks until 30-35!
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How could you say that? bodybuilding is an age game , for one to build up that muscle maturity you need time, bodybuilders don't normally hit their peaks until 30-35!
translation:
it usually takes that long before the pros find the right combination of drugs that work for them.
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How could you say that? bodybuilding is an age game , for one to build up that muscle maturity you need time, bodybuilders don't normally hit their peaks until 30-35!
history doesn't support that view. competing in your 30s was very rare prior to the availablity of steroids
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history doesn't support that view. competing in your 30s was very rare prior to the availablity of steroids
Are you forgetting the advancements in supplements? The advancements in science that help us develop better nutrition plans? Hell even the advancements of training machines?
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also, what is his age? lot easier to build and maintain muscle mass when in your early 20s than in your 30s and 40s.
in the pre-steroid era, bodybuilding was a young man's sport. 30 was considered old, 35 very old.
19 like me lol.
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Chris Faildo.
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Are you forgetting the advancements in supplements? The advancements in science that help us develop better nutrition plans? Hell even the advancements of training machines?
name any training method (HIT, etc), any diet (cyclical ketogenic, carbo loading, high fat, low fat, etc), and someone was doing it in the 50s and 60s. they didn't use those names, but you can find articles in the mags describing it.
Nor do I see how any machine would allow a natural bodybuilder to counter the effects of time.
So I guess natural bodybuilders can accomplish so much more than they could 30-40 years ago because of Designer Whey, Anabolic Xtreme Rampage, and NOExplode.
Really the only thing that might be affecting today's natural bodybuilders is the massive amounts of caffeine they are consuming in these energy drinks. But then are they really natural? Large doses of caffeine is banned in the Olympics.
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Chris Faildo.
already a long thread about Chris. we don't believe it is possible to maintain that size while having that conditioning naturally. size, it may be possible. conditioning, maybe. both at the same time, very unlikely.
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name any training method (HIT, etc), any diet (cyclical ketogenic, carbo loading, high fat, low fat, etc), and someone was doing it in the 50s and 60s. they didn't use those names, but you can find articles in the mags describing it.
Nor do I see how any machine would allow a natural bodybuilder to counter the effects of time.
So I guess natural bodybuilders can accomplish so much more than they could 30-40 years ago because of Designer Whey, Anabolic Xtreme Rampage, and NOExplode.
Really the only thing that might be affecting today's natural bodybuilders is the massive amounts of caffeine they are consuming in these energy drinks. But then are they really natural? Large doses of caffeine is banned in the Olympics.
They had steroids in the 50's and 60's buddy! Maybe not as widespread as it is today, but they were there!
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Why the hell would anyone listen to Tim Fogerty? He has a passion for male body--but he doesn't work out or anything.
Big Ach - that's the problem. If you want to excel at ANYTHING in life:
DON'T LISTEN TO WHAT AVERAGE, JOE BLOWs have to say.
WHAT THE HELL DO THEY KNOW? WHY DO YOU CARE?
I'll get you the answer in short:
5 pounds more than they have been able to get themselves.
5 pounds leaner than they have been able to get.
and of this will vary with every person. 10 people. 10 different answers.
One exception: gh15 will say everyone os on drugs (and you can PM to buy some from him)
You want to be average, get their opionions.
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Timfogarty, you still have not posted a pic of what you think is the absolute extreme for a natural bodybuilder?
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already a long thread about Chris. we I don't believe it is possible to maintain that size while having that conditioning naturally. size, it may be possible. conditioning, maybe. both at the same time, very unlikely.
fixed
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Why the hell would anyone listen to Tim Fogerty? He has a passion for male body--but he doesn't work out or anything.
Big Ach - that's the problem. If you want to excel at ANYTHING in life:
DON'T LISTEN TO WHAT AVERAGE, JOE BLOWs have to say.
WHAT THE HELL DO THEY KNOW? WHY DO YOU CARE?
I'll get you the answer in short:
5 pounds more than they have been able to get themselves.
5 pounds leaner than they have been able to get.
and of this will vary with every person. 10 people. 10 different answers.
One exception: gh15 will say everyone os on drugs (and you can PM to buy some from him)
You want to be average, get their opionions.
;D LOL
Maybe I shoulda said: Post a picture of what you think is the absolute limit in natural size and conditioing, and then post a pic of yourself!!
Thats the thing, many people believe that just because they have not been able to reach that level naturally then they go and say its all drugs!
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Timfogarty, May I ask, you have the "EXPERTS" stars, what exactly are you an expert on?
I'm not bashing, just really curious!
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Timfogarty, May I ask, you have the "EXPERTS" stars, what exactly are you an expert on?
I'm not bashing, just really curious!
He's been lusting at male bodies for a long time.
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Timfogarty, you still have not posted a pic of what you think is the absolute extreme for a natural bodybuilder?
Someone already posted the Sandow photo
Why the hell would anyone listen to Tim Fogerty? He has a passion for male body--but he doesn't work out or anything.
enough people here have met me. considering my age, I think I look like a bodybuilder. I regularly squat 365 for reps. I'm around 7% body fat.
Timfogarty, May I ask, you have the "EXPERTS" stars, what exactly are you an expert on?
Ron gave me them because of my website, http://musclememory.com
if you're really interested, see http://www.musclememory.com/wiki/index.php?title=MuscleMemory_Press
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Someone already posted the Sandow photo
enough people here have met me. considering my age, I think I look like a bodybuilder. I regularly squat 365 for reps. I'm around 7% body fat.
Ron gave me them because of my website, http://musclememory.com
if you're really interested, see http://www.musclememory.com/wiki/index.php?title=MuscleMemory_Press
What age is that?
and, are YOU natural?
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You actually believe that Sandow is the ultimate extreme in natural bodybuilding????? Come on, you're joking!
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Timfogarty, I'm bigger and leaner than Sandow, Do you think I'm Juicing?
Me:
(http://www.ahmedelattar.com/images/crab1wk.jpg)
Sandow:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Sandow,_Eugene_-_1889_by_Henry_Van_der_Weyde_(1838-1924).jpg/453px-Sandow,_Eugene_-_1889_by_Henry_Van_der_Weyde_(1838-1924).jpg)
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Timfogarty, I'm bigger and leaner than Sandow, Do you think I'm Juicing?
Me:
(http://www.ahmedelattar.com/images/crab1wk.jpg)
Sandow:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Sandow,_Eugene_-_1889_by_Henry_Van_der_Weyde_(1838-1924).jpg/453px-Sandow,_Eugene_-_1889_by_Henry_Van_der_Weyde_(1838-1924).jpg)
you are not bigger lol
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Let's just put this thread to rest.
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Timfogarty, I'm bigger and leaner than Sandow, Do you think I'm Juicing?
Me:
(http://www.ahmedelattar.com/images/crab1wk.jpg)
Sandow:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Sandow,_Eugene_-_1889_by_Henry_Van_der_Weyde_(1838-1924).jpg/453px-Sandow,_Eugene_-_1889_by_Henry_Van_der_Weyde_(1838-1924).jpg)
You already said in another thread that you took pro-hormones or pro-steroids.
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My biceps shot:
(http://members.aol.com/bigachx/images/bipicssss.jpg)
Sandows:
(http://www.filmarchive.org.nz/tracking-shots/resources/images/Sandow-237x281.jpg)
And I'm leaner!
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You already said in another thread that you took pro-hormones or pro-steroids.
Yes I have taken pro-hormones before, if you want to point the finger and say I am not natural because of that, then thats fine, I can see your argument. But every organization I've ever competed in have totally accepted the fact this is still natural! Never failed a polygraph and never failed unrinalysis, so I still stand by the fact that I consider myself a natural bodybuilder, and so do the organizations that I've competed in.
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Timfogarty, I'm bigger and leaner than Sandow, Do you think I'm Juicing?
Me:
(http://www.ahmedelattar.com/images/crab1wk.jpg)
Sandow:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Sandow,_Eugene_-_1889_by_Henry_Van_der_Weyde_(1838-1924).jpg/453px-Sandow,_Eugene_-_1889_by_Henry_Van_der_Weyde_(1838-1924).jpg)
Big Ach, practice a relaxed smile when posing. not the meatheat mostmuscular smile like everyone else.
Think "Shawn Ray" smile.
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And I also want to add, the pro-hormones that I took DID WORK!!!!!!
But you cannot compare them at all to real steroids, actual juicers can and will confirm this, its night and day!!!
But I won't lie and say that they didn't work!
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My biceps shot:
(http://members.aol.com/bigachx/images/bipicssss.jpg)
Sandows:
(http://www.filmarchive.org.nz/tracking-shots/resources/images/Sandow-237x281.jpg)
And I'm leaner!
Your nose has an awesome peak!
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Big Ach, practice a relaxed smile when posing. not the meatheat mostmuscular smile like everyone else.
Think "Shawn Ray" smile.
Yeah I agree, its tough in the carb most muscular though!!!! LOL But I normally do try to smile!
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Your nose has an awesome peak!
"Beautiful Arab Genetics"
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Timfogarty, I'm bigger and leaner than Sandow, Do you think I'm Juicing?
natural is not the same as not juicing. lots of chemicals you take that sandow didn't have help you build muscle, besides the prohormones. also you're comparing pics of a 19 year old with pics of a 35-45 year old.
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Timfogarty, I'm bigger and leaner than Sandow, Do you think I'm Juicing?
Me:
you got one hell of a grill
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natural is not the same as not juicing. lots of chemicals you take that sandow didn't have help you build muscle, besides the prohormones. also you're comparing pics of a 19 year old with pics of a 35-45 year old.
Timfogarty - this is what I meant when I said "advancements in supplements" in my prior post, we have a lot more that sandow definitely didn't have. Even in quality of food we have better things, so it is possible for natural bodybuilders to get bigger without anabolic steroids!
Edit: We also have a better understanding of proper nutrition which sandow didn't have, so how could you say he is the biggest a natural bodybuilder could get?
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I just re-read your post. Our definition of natural is not the same I guess.
But using your definition there are hardly ANY natural bodybuilders left? You don't take whey protein? or BCAA's? or Creatine? So are you not natural?
Do you understand what I'm saying?
When I say natural, and most people say natural, they mean not using anabolic steroids, GH, insulin, etc...
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I just re-read your post. Our definition of natural is not the same I guess.
But using your definition there are hardly ANY natural bodybuilders left? You don't take whey protein? or BCAA's? or Creatine? So are you not natural?
Do you understand what I'm saying?
When I say natural, and most people say natural, they mean not using anabolic steroids, GH, insulin, etc...
good build dude.
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When I say natural, and most people say natural, they mean not using anabolic steroids, GH, insulin, etc...
Not "most". "Most" include pro-hormones in as well unless your a "natural" bodybuilder than it changes the meaning, lol.
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Timfogarty - this is what I meant when I said "advancements in supplements" in my prior post, we have a lot more that sandow definitely didn't have. Even in quality of food we have better things, so it is possible for natural bodybuilders to get bigger without anabolic steroids!
No anabolic steroids is not the definition of natural. Many other chemicals on the IOC banned drug list, including massive doses of caffeine and ephedra. if you use those to get an extra hard workout, you're not natural. If you use herbal diuretics prior to a contest, you're not natural.
ignoring your previous prohormone use, it's easy to be on the natural bandwagon at 19. but in 15 years you will find it hard to keep your gains, let alone make additional gains. and it's not just because of drop in test levels. it's because getting old sucks. your body doesn't respond as quickly, and certainly doesn't recover as quickly.
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I just re-read your post. Our definition of natural is not the same I guess.
But using your definition there are hardly ANY natural bodybuilders left? You don't take whey protein? or BCAA's? or Creatine? So are you not natural?
Do you understand what I'm saying?
When I say natural, and most people say natural, they mean not using anabolic steroids, GH, insulin, etc...
I believe the vast majority of the manstrem public's definition:
natural = NOT a criminal securing illegals drugs and putting them in their body to be big and/or ripped
nuff said
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No anabolic steroids is not the definition of natural. Many other chemicals on the IOC banned drug list, including massive doses of caffeine and ephedra. if you use those to get an extra hard workout, you're not natural. If you use herbal diuretics prior to a contest, you're not natural.
ignoring your previous prohormone use, it's easy to be on the natural bandwagon at 19. but in 15 years you will find it hard to keep your gains, let alone make additional gains. and it's not just because of drop in test levels. it's because getting old sucks. your body doesn't respond as quickly, and certainly doesn't recover as quickly.
agreed,but u have to make adjustments to accomadate changes.do u supplement tim?naturally or artificial.
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Does synthol count?
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Njflex: Thanks dude!!!! Appreciated
Mazrim: I'd have a pretty weak argument against you, I don't think you are totally crazy for saying what you say. But again, all natural organizations I compete in accept my natural status regardless of the use of pro-hormones in the past, so I still consider myself natural.
Timfogarty: First of all, I don't understand why you think I'm 19 years old, I'm 25 right now, and the bicep pic was at 21 and the crab was just last month. I know not far from 19 but I just wanted to clarify that.
I can't speak on how I will be in 15 years, I am going only by other natural bodybuilders who I have met older than me, they just seem to get better with age, at 30, 40, and even one of the best Natural bodybuilders I know is 57 or so, Neal Grossman - look him up, he beats people in their 20's.
Also, I've used Ephedra in the past before it was banned, and use caffeine till today, so I guess I'm the farthest thing from being natural LOL
My natural definition is the one given to me by the natural oganizations I've competed in (IE: OCB and NGA).
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No anabolic steroids is not the definition of natural. Many other chemicals on the IOC banned drug list, including massive doses of caffeine and ephedra. if you use those to get an extra hard workout, you're not natural. If you use herbal diuretics prior to a contest, you're not natural.
ignoring your previous prohormone use, it's easy to be on the natural bandwagon at 19. but in 15 years you will find it hard to keep your gains, let alone make additional gains. and it's not just because of drop in test levels. it's because getting old sucks. your body doesn't respond as quickly, and certainly doesn't recover as quickly.
How old are you?
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Natural is anything under 200 lbs ripped and under 6ft tall.
It is an impossibility for anyone to be over 200 lbs and under 6 ft at low, low bodyfat.
Even 190 lbs is a stretch if not an impossibility when under 6 ft.
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Njflex: Thanks dude!!!! Appreciated
Mazrim: I'd have a pretty weak argument against you, I don't think you are totally crazy for saying what you say. But again, all natural organizations I compete in accept my natural status regardless of the use of pro-hormones in the past, so I still consider myself natural.
Timfogarty: First of all, I don't understand why you think I'm 19 years old, I'm 25 right now, and the bicep pic was at 21 and the crab was just last month. I know not far from 19 but I just wanted to clarify that.
I can't speak on how I will be in 15 years, I am going only by other natural bodybuilders who I have met older than me, they just seem to get better with age, at 30, 40, and even one of the best Natural bodybuilders I know is 57 or so, Neal Grossman - look him up, he beats people in their 20's.
Also, I've used Ephedra in the past before it was banned, and use caffeine till today, so I guess I'm the farthest thing from being natural LOL
My natural definition is the one given to me by the natural oganizations I've competed in (IE: OCB and NGA).
Haven`t a handful of OCB`ers failed drug or polygraph tests?
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I believe the vast majority of the manstrem public's definition:
natural = NOT a criminal securing illegals drugs and putting them in their body to be big and/or ripped
nuff said
mwbbuilder, even that definition is not enough. Because in many other countries Steroids are not illegal like they are in the USA.
I'm from Egypt, Steroids are perfectly legal here, and IN FACT they are cheaper than whey protein, you can buy steroids in any pharmacy here in Egypt, no prescription needed!
In the UK as well if you are not distributing, steroids are perfectly legal!
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Haven`t quite a number of OCB`ers failed drug or polygraph tests?
Adam, I am sure it has happened, thats because many organizations have different rules.
For example, OCB allowed/allows the use of over the counter pro-hormones, the WNBF does not - thats just one example there are a million other examples. So yes it does happen!
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good point.
I guess what I said...AND living in the U.S. because that includes the ban of those steroids and others for "bodybuilding" purposes.
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He is my friend and yes he is.
He has had a few operations on his heart so roids would probably kill him. =)
where are the scars on his chest?
E
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Adam, I am sure it has happened, thats because many organizations have different rules.
For example, OCB allowed/allows the use of over the counter pro-hormones, the WNBF does not - thats just one example there are a million other examples. So yes it does happen!
I think Doug Miller is suspect with Pro-Hormone or something else. Kurt Widener possibly too. Deadlifting nearly 700 lbs at 5 percent bodyfat does raise a flag or two in my opinion.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3517641807498259118
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good point.
I guess what I said...AND living in the U.S. because that includes the ban of those steroids and others for "bodybuilding" purposes.
LOL, I feel ya dawg!!!
To be honest this debate will never end, cause people have so many different definitions of natural!
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Bobby Pandour
(http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Competition/Pandour/pandour8.gif)
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I think Doug Miller is suspect with Pro-Hormone or something else. Kurt Widener possibly too. Deadlifting nearly 700 lbs at 5 percent bodyfat does raise a flag or two in my opinion.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3517641807498259118
Doug Miller never took pro-hormones, if anything his size shows that he uses the real thing. But I really do believe Doug is natural. www.dougmillerpro.com
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Bobby Pandour again.
(http://www.oldtimestrongman.com/images10/bobby_pandour.gif)
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I also wanted to add - I'm eating Chicken McNuggets right now, and an M&M's McFlurry - and I don't give a fuck!
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Doug Miller never took pro-hormones, if anything his size shows that he uses the real thing. But I really do believe Doug is natural. www.dougmillerpro.com
good build,decent size,condition good not dry like a crossover but lean and good for everday life.
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Doug Miller never took pro-hormones, if anything his size shows that he uses the real thing. But I really do believe Doug is natural. www.dougmillerpro.com
That could be true. Perhaps he just lies about his weight which would validate being natural.
I don`t buy for one moment Doug Miller`s stats:
• DOB: 9.23.1979
• Born: Abington, PA
• Height: 5'9"
• Competition weight: 185-190
• Offseason weight: 210-220
Look at Flex Wheeler here at the 89 Nationals.
5`10 187 lbs.
No way does Doug Miller come close to that if we are to believe that he is natural or his stats. One of the two are clearly deceptive.
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Doug Miller never took pro-hormones, if anything his size shows that he uses the real thing. But I really do believe Doug is natural. www.dougmillerpro.com
That could be true. Perhaps he just lies about his weight which would validate being natural.
I don`t buy for one moment Doug Miller`s stats:
• DOB: 9.23.1979
• Born: Abington, PA
• Height: 5'9"
• Competition weight: 185-190
• Offseason weight: 210-220
Look at Flex Wheeler here at the 89 Nationals.
5`10 187 lbs.
No way does Doug Miller come close to that if we are to believe that he is natural or his stats. One of the two are clearly deceptive.
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Adam,
Doug definitely competes at those numbers, I've been there before during his weigh-ins and shows!!!
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0121.jpg)
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That could be true. Perhaps he just lies about his weight which would validate being natural.
I don`t buy for one moment Doug Miller`s stats:
• DOB: 9.23.1979
• Born: Abington, PA
• Height: 5'9"
• Competition weight: 185-190
• Offseason weight: 210-220
Look at Flex Wheeler here at the 89 Nationals.
5`10 187 lbs.
No way does Doug Miller come close to that if we are to believe that he is natural or his stats. One of the two are clearly deceptive.
wheeler had superior genetics and probably using buythen 4 yrs he has a distinct advantage,ya think?
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Adam,
Doug definitely competes at those numbers, I've been there before during his weigh-ins and shows!!!
(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/yvonnetaylor_photoshoot/IMG_0121.jpg)
If he does, he is not natural in my opinion.
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I believe he is clean - he is an absolute perfectionist, he graduated with a 4.0 GPA top of his class, he is seriously sick to the head when it comes to training and eating right, I've trained with him before absolutely insane, and how meticulous he is about his diet is ridiculous, off-season or on, its crazy.
I emceed the show in which he turned pro at, when he came out on stage, the entire audience just goes "HOLY SHIT" you could hear it all through out the auditorium, was crazy!!!
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If he does, he is not natural in my opinion.
PM GH15 and ask what he thinks about Doug. hahha
Most of the Musclemania people still call themselves Natural. ::)
I like how they compete at 235 lbs and still tout being a lifetime drug free lifter.
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PM GH15 and ask what he thinks about Doug. hahha
Most of the Musclemania people still call themselves Natural. ::)
I like how they compete at 235 lbs and still tout being a lifetime drug free lifter.
Human Growth Hormone is not on the banned substance list for Musclemania - its a known fact LOL :-) check it right now. www.musclemania.com
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I do - he is an absolute perfectionist, he graduated with a 4.0 GPA top of his class, he is seriously sick to the head when it comes to training and eating right, I've trained with him before absolutely insane, and how meticulous he is about his diet is ridiculous, off-season or on, its crazy.
I emceed the show in which he turned pro at, when he came out on stage, the entire audience just goes "HOLY SHIT" you could hear it all through out the auditorium, was crazy!!!
Being a perfectionist is not enough to break the shadow of doubt. It really means nothing. No such thing as "eating right". :)
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I think Doug could be natural, there is no way to tell really. If indeed he is, that is about the upper limit.
What are your thoughts of Kurt Wiedner Deadlifting nearly 700 lbs at 5 percent bodyfat? Perhaps he is just built for lifting? I think he may be natural. Definitely the upper limit.
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Human Growth Hormone is not on the banned substance list for Musclemania - its a known fact LOL :-) check it right now. www.musclemania.com
Wait I'm wrong, this is written in the bottom: In addition to the above listed compounds,
all forms of Human Growth Hormone are banned.
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Wait I'm wrong, this is written in the bottom: In addition to the above listed compounds,
all forms of Human Growth Hormone are banned.
Iv`e heard that Testosterone shots are out of your system within a day. I have no idea if it is true or not but that could be one way these people are doing it,
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I think Doug could be natural, there is no way to tell really. If indeed he is, that is about the upper limit.
What are your thoughts of Kurt Wiedner Deadlifting nearly 700 lbs at 5 percent bodyfat? Perhaps he is just built for lifting? I think he may be natural. Definitely the upper limit.
I believe its true, I've known people who knew Kurt since he was young and before he even got seriously into it, he was still always really big and really strong!!!
Genetics plays a huuuuge factor in all of this and people like Doug and Kurt, bust their asses and just do everything right!!!
No one knows except them, and thats how it'll always be, but like I said, I believe them!
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Wait I'm wrong, this is written in the bottom: In addition to the above listed compounds,
all forms of Human Growth Hormone are banned.
Why are Musclemania guys not natural, but claim to be?
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Why are Musclemania guys not natural, but claim to be?
ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
This guy claims all natural.
(http://www.musclemania.com/mmpro/david_whittaker_california.jpg)
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I believe he is clean - he is an absolute perfectionist, he graduated with a 4.0 GPA top of his class, he is seriously sick to the head when it comes to training and eating right, I've trained with him before absolutely insane, and how meticulous he is about his diet is ridiculous, off-season or on, its crazy.
I emceed the show in which he turned pro at, when he came out on stage, the entire audience just goes "HOLY SHIT" you could hear it all through out the auditorium, was crazy!!!
::) why do all you 'naturas' claim the same shit over and over, and cover for each other - you all claim, i've trained with him, he's hardcore, he's meticulous, blah blah blah - he's on a ton of gear like evereyone else i.e faildo, kyoshi, willet, skip
you look good, but your a lying @@@@
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Why are Musclemania guys not natural, but claim to be?
Because their organization still considers them natural, even if they use HGH, because they don't poly and only do urinalysis. and HGH will not show up in the urinalysis!
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::) why do all you 'naturas' claim the same shit over and over, and cover for each other - you all claim, i've trained with him, he's hardcore, he's meticulous, blah blah blah - he's on a ton of gear like evereyone else i.e faildo, kyoshi, willet, skip
you look good, but your a lying @@@@
Fatpanda, read my other post, I also said he is the only one that TRULY knows, and I am only going by what I BELIEVE - and I could be 100% wrong, maybe he is using, but I don't believe that he is.
I don't understand your last line, I look good but am lying about what?
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I believe its true, I've known people who knew Kurt since he was young and before he even got seriously into it, he was still always really big and really strong!!!
Genetics plays a huuuuge factor in all of this and people like Doug and Kurt, bust their asses and just do everything right!!!
No one knows except them, and thats how it'll always be, but like I said, I believe them!
Ach,
There is a guy who competes in your organization, goes by the name of William Powell. I believe he has won the Yorton Cup. He also competes in NPC and has won the State Show here in 2006 and went to NPC Nationals. With that said, there is a local guy he is friends with who also just happens to be a roving steroid dealer from gym to gym. Strange eh? He even placed near the top 10 or better at Nationals if I am not mistaken. I gotta call bullshit on some of the OCB`ers. :)
(http://www.ncnpc.com/Elite-2006/Open%20Men/pages/_MG_5311.htm)
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Ach,
There is a guy who competes in your organization, goes by the name of William Powell. I believe he has won the Yorton Cup. He also competes in NPC and has won the State Show here in 2006 and went to NPC Nationals. With that said, there is a local guy he is friends with who also just happens to be a roving steroid dealer from gym to gym. Strange eh? He even placed near the top 10 or better at Nationals if I am not mistaken. I gotta call bullshit on some of the OCB`ers. :)
(http://www.ncnpc.com/Elite-2006/Open%20Men/pages/_MG_5311.htm)
Adam,
Just because his friend is a notorious user and distributor that automatically makes him a user? Some of my closest friends in College were users and abusers, as well as distributors, one of them was involved for a while with Victor Martinez (and we know how that went down) then they all got letters from the DA about a certain bust that could go down and they had to get rid of their shit. Does that automatically make me a user? They were really close friends, and I went to their house, they showed me everything they were taking, etc!
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P.S. FYI, I know who william powell is, but I don't know him on a personal level like I know Doug! William may or may not be using, only he knows!
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Funny thing about 3 years ago, there was a guy in my gym getting ready for a natural competition and was juicing, so I was like "don't they check for all this shit" then he told me that everyone is on, but theres ways of passing lie detectors and drug tests....WTF why not just compete in a non-tested contest then, I really don't get the reasoning behind this.
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Funny thing about 3 years ago, there was a guy in my gym getting ready for a natural competition and was juicing, so I was like "don't they check for all this shit" then he told me that everyone is on, but theres ways of passing lie detectors and drug tests....WTF why not just compete in a non-tested contest then, I really don't get the reasoning behind this.
That is a bit extreme to say that EVERYONE is using. There are definitely ways to pass polys, just take valium and I heard that really helps. Sure I am sure people use, but its definitely a lot less than non-tested shows! and its not EVERYONE!
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Adam,
Just because his friend is a notorious user and distributor that automatically makes him a user? Some of my closest friends in College were users and abusers, as well as distributors, one of them was involved for a while with Victor Martinez (and we know how that went down) then they all go letters from the DA about a certain bust that could go down and they had to get rid of their shit. Does that automatically make me a user? They were really close friends, and I went to their house, they showed me everything they were taking, etc!
Of course it doesn`t but it certainly adds circumstantial evidence to the case. I just find it interesting that Mr. Powell is going against Juiced to the gills competition and beating them easily as well as competing in the NPC Nationals and doing very well, all the while doing the occasional natural show on a whimsy.
Did I mention as a Light-HeavyWeight. :) :) hahah
I am calling bollocks on him most definitely.
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I know several guys at my gym that compete in natty shows and are using. One even got caught once and just recently bought out the local steroid dealer of everything he had in order to get ready for his next show.
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What is the point though?? Just compete in a non-tested competition atleast it's a level playing field. What the hell is the point of beating other guys if your cheating to do it, what do you acomplish out of that?
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What is the point though?? Just compete in a non-tested competition atleast it's a level playing field. What the hell is the point of beating other guys if your cheating to do it, what do you acomplish out of that?
so that they can walk around saying that they are "natural pro's" i guess...
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Thats what I don't get about people who are using banned substances but competing in tested shows. Whats the satisfaction they get out of it?
But their excuse is "everyone is using!!!" Which is not true, sure people could be using, and I've been suspicious of some, but its not EVERYONE!
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ALL NATURAL HAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAHAHAHAHAHhahAhh
(http://www.musclemania.com/mmpro/hugh_ross_ny.jpg)
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Ach,
There is a guy who competes in your organization, goes by the name of William Powell. I believe he has won the Yorton Cup. He also competes in NPC and has won the State Show here in 2006 and went to NPC Nationals. With that said, there is a local guy he is friends with who also just happens to be a roving steroid dealer from gym to gym. Strange eh? He even placed near the top 10 or better at Nationals if I am not mistaken. I gotta call bullshit on some of the OCB`ers. :)
(http://www.ncnpc.com/Elite-2006/Open%20Men/pages/_MG_5311.htm)
He did not win. He got 6th. I took second and Phillip Ricardo took 1st.
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He did not win. He got 6th. I took second and Phillip Ricardo took 1st.
Since you are in the know,
All Natural or Not?
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He did not win. He got 6th. I took second and Phillip Ricardo took 1st.
You shoulda won Doug!!!!
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I think Doug could be natural, there is no way to tell really. If indeed he is, that is about the upper limit.
What are your thoughts of Kurt Wiedner Deadlifting nearly 700 lbs at 5 percent bodyfat? Perhaps he is just built for lifting? I think he may be natural. Definitely the upper limit.
Adam - This is Doug. I am clean and I am good friends with Kurt and he is too. I'm not sure why all the doubt. When you truly live and breath bodybuilding, anything is possible. I will not let the fact that I am natural limit what I can and cannot achieve. Why would you put limits on yourself?
Best,
Doug
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all 'naturals' are liars :(
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So then if you are a true natural, what is the point of competing for you? You know theres guys on shit which is a total advatage to them, and it's highly unlikely a natty can beat a guy thats enhanced, I just wouldn't want to deal with that..
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Adam - This is Doug. I am clean and I am good friends with Kurt and he is too. I'm not sure why all the doubt. When you truly live and breath bodybuilding, anything is possible. I will not let the fact that I am natural limit what I can and cannot achieve. Why would you put limits on yourself?
Best,
Doug
Only a fool wouldn`t be realistic. There is no such thing as mentally putting a physical limit on yourself. If one is a natural, you end up where you do, no matter what. You only progress so far regardless of what you continue to do. In your case, you will never see 225 lbs ripped. Don`t you agree? Wouldn`t thinking that you can be THE FIRST IN HUMAN HISTORY to be ripped at 225 lbs and under 6ft a little quixotic?
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ALL NATURAL HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAH AAHAHAHAHHA
(http://www.musclemania.com/mmpro/past/ade_rai_indonesia.jpg)
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Adam - This is Doug. I am clean and I am good friends with Kurt and he is too. I'm not sure why all the doubt. When you truly live and breath bodybuilding, anything is possible. I will not let the fact that I am natural limit what I can and cannot achieve. Why would you put limits on yourself?
Best,
Doug
I`m sick of the anything is possible optimism. NO ANYTHING IS NOT POSSIBLE.
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I`m sick of the anything is possible optimism. NO ANYTHING IS NOT POSSIBLE.
So true. He probably has that saved on his computer and "copy and pasted" it.
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ALL NATURAL HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAH AAHAHAHAHHA
(http://www.musclemania.com/mmpro/past/ade_rai_indonesia.jpg)
That dude looks just as good as an IFFB pro? WTF, does he really claim to be natural?
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ALL NATURAL HAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHHAHAHAHA AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHA
(http://www.musclemania.com/mmpro/past/jeff_primm_illinois.jpg)
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Only a fool wouldn`t be realistic. There is no such thing as mentally putting a physical limit on yourself. If one is a natural, you end up where you do, no matter what. You only progress so far regardless of what you continue to do. In your case, you will never see 225 lbs ripped. Don`t you agree? Wouldn`t thinking that you can be THE FIRST IN HUMAN HISTORY to be ripped at 225 lbs and under 6ft a little quixotic?
I will never be 225 and shredded but I could be 200 and shredded some day. It may take me 10 years but I will be there. I was about 187 for the Yorton Cup.
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I`m sick of the anything is possible optimism. NO ANYTHING IS NOT POSSIBLE.
LOL okay. To each his own.
Good luck,
Doug
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ALL NATURAL HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAHHAAH
(http://www.musclemania.com/mmpro/past/jody_ramos_ny.jpg)
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Bobby Pandour
(http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Competition/Pandour/pandour8.gif)
Had to quote this one out of respect. Awesome physique for any time period and he only worked with 10 lb dumbbells.
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I will never be 225 and shredded but I could be 200 and shredded some day. It may take me 10 years but I will be there. I was about 187 for the Yorton Cup.
I think you are most likely natural as you are only in the 180s. When you get to 200, IF you do. I won`t give you the benefit of the doubt. :)
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ALL NATURAL!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHHAHA WITH GYNO
(http://www.musclemania.com/gallery/08atlanticmens/DSC03117.jpg)
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I find if someone is ripped and has big delts it's a giveaway
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No anabolic steroids is not the definition of natural. Many other chemicals on the IOC banned drug list, including massive doses of caffeine and ephedra. if you use those to get an extra hard workout, you're not natural. If you use herbal diuretics prior to a contest, you're not natural.
ignoring your previous prohormone use, it's easy to be on the natural bandwagon at 19. but in 15 years you will find it hard to keep your gains, let alone make additional gains. and it's not just because of drop in test levels. it's because getting old sucks. your body doesn't respond as quickly, and certainly doesn't recover as quickly.
your argument makes no sense, how is whey protein natural? it is derived from milking a cow and isolating fractions, what is natural about that?
first off for you to continue arguing why dont you lay down a definition of natural which can be used.
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Adam,
Whats funny is that I didn't even tell Doug about this post, and he just jumped in, and did his 1 Getbig post every 3 years LOL
Some of these guys I question Adam, some I could believe!
Only THEY KNOW, and we never will!
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ALL NATURAL HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAHHAAH
Adam, what about this guy?
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Adam, what about this guy?
All DBOL!!!!!
LOLL I couldn't resist!!!
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Adam,
Whats funny is that I didn't even tell Doug about this post, and he just jumped in, and did his 1 Getbig post every 3 years LOL
Some of these guys I question Adam, some I could believe!
Only THEY KNOW, and we never will!
I think anyone should be subject to questioning and therefore should not be offended at all. If this post were on the OCB all the cry-babies would come out of the woodwork and the meltdowns would ensue. I do think Doug is natural and he is the upper limit. Seeing as there NEVER has been a 200 lber ripped at 4 percent and under 6 feet, if anyone is at that level, they are to be considered not natural. That is an answer to the thread of how far one can go.
200 lbs is a stretch with 180-195 being the absolute top for anyone under 6 feet. Bone Structure also will play a role in how Heavy one gets. Someone technically could weigh less and be the same height, but have more muscle per square inch due to structure.
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Adam, what about this guy?
Camera Trick my friend. Notice the "Dutch Angle", light and fuzzy quality.
Here is a better pic from the same time period to show just how obese that REALLY is.
(http://www.wpse.com/Galleries/1/139/The%20True%20Adonis_20466.jpg)
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first off for you to continue arguing why dont you lay down a definition of natural which can be used.
food: aminio acids, fatty acids, carbohydrates
drugs: chemicals that have an effect on your body, including caffeine, herbs that act like a stimulant or a diuretic, anything that affects your hormonal levels.
snake oil: 99% of what you find in the health food store, including NOX supplements.
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your argument makes no sense, how is whey protein natural? it is derived from milking a cow and isolating fractions, what is natural about that?
first off for you to continue arguing why dont you lay down a definition of natural which can be used.
natural = no anabolic steroids/growth hormones/insulin/prohormones or hormones of any kind...
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natural = no anabolic steroids/growth hormones/insulin/prohormones or hormones of any kind...
Thats my idea of Natural.
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food: aminio acids, fatty acids, carbohydrates
drugs: chemicals that have an effect on your body, including caffeine, herbs that act like a stimulant or a diuretic, anything that affects your hormonal levels.
snake oil: 99% of what you find in the health food store, including NOX supplements.
how old are you, Tim?
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Thats my idea of Natural.
Guess I'm not natural then due to the Pro-hormones!
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Guess I'm not natural then due to the Pro-hormones!
Do you think Some are stronger than steroids? Patrick Arnold used to manufacture them and made a statement before he went to prison regarding something of that nature. He helped design many of the drugs Olympic athletes take.
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I think alot of supplements have steroids or derivatives in them. There are a few companies that have been shut down by the DEA for putting anabolics in "natural" supplments.
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This was one of the prizes for the first Mr. Getbig.
(http://www.americannutrition.com/store/media/H-TDianabol.jpg)
A once legal supplement whose company put drugs in supplements.
Here is the Department of Justice page regarding HiTech Pharmaceuticals.
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/pressrel/pr092006.html
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News Release [print-friendly page]
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
September 20, 2006
Contact: DEA Special Agent Ruth Porter-Whipple
(404) 893-7128
DEA: Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals & 11 Individuals Indicted for "Generic" Pill Fraud Scheme
Defendants Allegedly Sold Millions Of Pills Over The Internet
Defendants Allegedly Sold Millions Of Pills Over The Internet
Two of the vehicles seized by the DEA as part of the operation
ATLANTA – Eleven individuals and an Atlanta-based company have been indicted by a federal grand jury on multiple felony charges relating to a scheme to sell adulterated and unapproved new drugs over the internet. Four of the defendants were scheduled to appear at a bond hearing before United States Magistrate Linda Walker at 1:45 p.m. today.
In a news conference, DEA Special Agent In Charge Sherri Strange said, “One of the fastest growing drug abuse concerns is prescription drugs. The selling and purchasing of drugs have been facilitated by the wide use of the internet, the anonymity it provides, and the ease and relative secrecy of the mail and private delivery companies. A recent search engine query for ‘prescription drugs for sale online’ resulted in over 10 million hits. President Bush, Attorney General Gonzales, and DEA Administrator Tandy have made prescription drug abuse a priority for DEA. As our children sit down at the family computer to do their schoolwork, research projects, and converse with friends, criminal organizations like the one alleged today slither into their lives. Every one of us has received spam e-mails directing us to visit websites to order supposed generic prescription drugs and controlled substances. Buyers beware. I am proud that DEA works closely with the FDA, other federal agencies, and foreign counterparts to thwart such criminal organizations.”
United States Attorney David E. Nahmias said, “The indictment’s allegations are disturbing because customers thought they were getting legitimate and safe prescription drugs over the internet from Canada at cheaper prices, when in reality they received adulterated fakes that were crudely made in an unsanitary house in Belize.”
FDA Office of Criminal Investigations Special Agent In Charge David Bourne said, “The FDA’s Office of Criminal Investigations actively pursues those who deceive the public by manufacturing and selling unapproved and unregulated medications which may pose risks to the health of consumers. We are committed to investigating and preventing those who use trickery and deceit to illegally and unscrupulously sell medications over the internet at the expense of the public health."
The defendants named in the indictment are: JARED ROBERT WHEAT, 34, of Alpharetta, Georgia; DAVID DALTON JOHNSON, 37, of Pinehurst, North Carolina; DAVID ALAN BRADY, 40, of Pinehurst, North Carolina; STEPHEN DOUGLAS SMITH, 38, of Duluth, Georgia; THOMAS HOLDA, 43, of Duluth, Georgia; SERGIO RONALDO OLIVEIRA, 46, of Hoschton, Georgia; BRAD NEAL WATKINS, 38, of Birmingham, Alabama; DAVID WATKINS, 40, of Norcross, Georgia; STEVEN BLINDER, 42, of Aberdeen, South Dakota; MICHELLE YOUNG, 38, a citizen of Belize; and, GUILLERMO PECH, 28, also a citizen of Belize; and HI-TECH PHARMACEUTICALS, a company based in Norcross, Georgia.
All of the defendants are charged with two different conspiracies: (1) conspiring to import controlled substances into the United States; and (2) conspiring to violate the wire and mail fraud statute and to introduce into interstate commerce adulterated and misbranded prescription drugs. The indictment charges each of the defendants, except DAVID WATKINS, BRAD WATKINS and STEVEN BLINDER, with different substantive violations including mail fraud, distribution of controlled substances and introducing adulterated and misbranded new drugs. The indictment also charges the lead defendant, JARED WHEAT, with engaging in a continuing criminal enterprise. The indictment seeks to forfeit numerous properties, automobiles and bank accounts, and seeks a money judgment of not less than $19.8 million.
According to United States Attorney Nahmias, the indictment, search warrants and other information presented in court: WHEAT, the principal owner of Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals, and the other defendants opened a drug manufacturing facility in Belize in approximately 2002. The defendants allegedly used Hi-Tech funds and JARED WHEAT’s own funds to cover the costs of operating the Hi-Tech facility in Belize and would travel to Belize to manufacture various prescription and controlled substances. The defendants allegedly made approximately 24 different drugs that they marketed through so-called “spam” advertisements over the internet as authentic generic versions of those drugs being imported from Canada. The drugs included steroids such as “Oxymethelone” and “Stanazolol,” along with unapproved versions of controlled drugs such as “Ambien,” “Valium,” and “Xanax.” The defendants also manufactured versions of prescription drugs such as “Viagra,” “Cialis,” “Lipitor” and “Vioxx.” From 2002 through 2004, the defendants allegedly ordered enough active ingredients to manufacture millions of pills, many of which were then shipped into the United States to individuals who purchased the drugs after receiving internet “spam” and also to various wholesalers of drugs.
Members of the public are reminded that the indictment only contains charges. The defendants are presumed innocent of the charges and it will be the government's burden to prove each defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt at trial.
The U.S. Attorney's Office in Atlanta recommends parents and children learn about the dangers of drugs at the following web site: www.justthinktwice.com.
This case is being investigated by Special Agents of the DEA and the Food and Drug Administration, Office of Criminal Investigations, with the Henry County Police Department. Valuable assistance has been provided by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the Customs and Border Protection Foreign Mail Facility in Miami, the Postal Inspection Service, Doraville Police Department, Roswell Police Department, City of Atlanta Police Department, Spalding County Sheriff's Office, Cobb County Sheriff's Office, Clarkston Police Department, East Point Police Department and the Duluth Police Department.
Assistant United States Attorneys Aaron M. Danzig, Randy S. Chartash and J. Russell Phillips are prosecuting the case.
For further information please contact David E. Nahmias (pronounced NAH-me-us), United States Attorney, or Charysse L. Alexander, Executive Assistant United States Attorney, through Patrick Crosby, Public Affairs Officer, U.S. Attorney's Office, at (404) 581-6016. The Internet address for the HomePage for the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Northern District of Georgia is www.usdoj.gov/usao/gan.
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Adam - This is Doug. I am clean and I am good friends with Kurt and he is too. I'm not sure why all the doubt. When you truly live and breath bodybuilding, anything is possible. I will not let the fact that I am natural limit what I can and cannot achieve. Why would you put limits on yourself?
Best,
Doug
Do you think William Powell is natural?
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Do you think William Powell is natural?
Absolutely! He was always known for being a gentleman.
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(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_4982ssss.jpg) at 230 without pump
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/s.jpg) at 250 with pump
big either way
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Hey T.A, would you care to see the BIGGEST, FINEST, MOST PISS TAKINGLY EPIC example of a Muscle Mania bullshiter?
Let me know, the sheer audacity will blow you away mate.
Indeed!
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(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/s.jpg)
Seriously impressive Mr Falcon
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(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/getbig043.jpg)2 hours a day 2 training sessions a day 3 week straight prior getbigI
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_3084sss.jpg) recent at about 5 pounds less or so? minimal training
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(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/s.jpg)
Seriously impressive Mr Falcon
Too bad he's not like that anymore.
I wish DW would regrow his hair and start training seriously again.
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i love this science stuff
different people have different genes...
... and what is it based on if someone is over 200 in decent condition..
u tell urself he is not natural he is juicing
of course thats a full proof..
:-\
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Too bad he's not like that anymore.
I wish DW would regrow his hair and start training seriously again.
im in a league of my own mentally and physically
not saying that to boast
there are many in the 5-10 percent that have knowledge of self
the rest are just ignorant and suck at everything and probably short hateful people, you could learn a little kindness from somebody tall :)
btw still big and lean
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_4009.jpg)
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Waddy seriously has great genetics, but he needs to get serious about training and stop worrying about all these crazy diets. :-\
He looks incredible at a higher bodyweight.
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"the teacher"
not only a great song but a great sounding one to workout to
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Daddywaddy could be so much better if he stopped with the weird ass diets and focused on training!!!
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Waddy seriously has great genetics, but he needs to get serious about training and stop worrying about all these crazy diets. :-\
He looks incredible at a higher bodyweight.
ok you just said "crazy" diets
so you think a "moderation" diet is better
how stupid to think that my friend
moderation gets you knowwhere in this world
moderation tends to be the majority aswell
you think the majority have it right or even partially?
would you agree with me that the majority have it horribly wrong in there life of ignorance and self indulgence?
when you be "crazy" you find the real truth and answers and not what the moderate majority told you
its bad to follow anyone, ive done every kind of diet imaginable probably most caused more fat gain than muscle gain or muscle depletion, but just like anything you can fix it but you never know if someone told you so. thats blind faith
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Daddywaddy could be so much better if he stopped with the weird ass diets and focused on training!!!
Daddywaddy and Johnny Falcon are 6feet6 the twin brothers laugh at shorter people with giving him advices whilist in the same sentence wreaking of jealousy from putting down the great masters. you like others do not get your message across very well to the masters of height and knowledge :)
its like trying to sell someone a used car and telling them they arent worth a shit without it. Many at getbig need falcon education!
please start with jeffro tull
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see if more people would listen to the great falcon they could be taller and smarter in their next lifetime, instead many will fail and end up being shorter and more pathetic in the next lifetime not even able to reach the top cabinet or there protien stick on top of a fridge :-\ ;)
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ok you just said "crazy" diets
so you think a "moderation" diet is better
how stupid to think that my friend
moderation gets you knowwhere in this world
moderation tends to be the majority aswell
you think the majority have it right or even partially?
would you agree with me that the majority have it horribly wrong in there life of ignorance and self indulgence?
when you be "crazy" you find the real truth and answers and not what the moderate majority told you
its bad to follow anyone, ive done every kind of diet imaginable probably most caused more fat gain than muscle gain or muscle depletion, but just like anything you can fix it but you never know if someone told you so. thats blind faith
Youre a cool dude and your threads are amusing, but im just saying that you just looked better with harder workouts and more food.
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Youre a cool dude and your threads are amusing, but im just saying that you just looked better with harder workouts and more food.
and all im saying is that while i may have looked better i sacrificed more time working out. the workouts werent any harder they were longer, anyone can pull it off if they PUT IN the time. remember its not what you got its what you give, if you workout alot you will be big if you work alot youll have more money..
these days im working my job alot more and being lean and fit is a priority than to being massive. although i think i can pull it off and be bigger than my previous best now that i have completley eliminated meat this year, now i will fill it in with natural carbs/protiens like beans and peas, they also contain PROTEASE wich helps recycle protiens, brocolli is very good at this
i am going to be upping calories considerably and focus mainly on leg training, because i think i have a good chance at the world record in sprinting
the key is haveing a high calorie amount with NO TOXIC MEAT and keep fat as low as possible and HIGH IN PROTEASE AND PROTIENS AND FIBER
ive seen many big strong people that hardly workout but are STRONG because the CALORIES do more muscle BUILDING than the actual WORKOUT. beleive it or not , look around, many big country dudes first time in the gym can load up all the plates on a back machine and row it, and they hardly ever lift but may dude your normal manual labor, they are strong cause they EAT alot
me ive never been crazy strong but here are some of my best lifts
365 bounce bench press for 2 reps sloppy form
500 pound deadlift (i hate deadlift not good at it)
315 squat all the way down for 5 quality reps
225 cheat curl for 3 reps, alot of cheat but did it nonetheless
185 standing military with no knee jeark behined the neck for 1 or 2 reps (too much wieght )
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and all im saying is that while i may have looked better i sacrificed more time working out. the workouts werent any harder they were longer, anyone can pull it off if they PUT IN the time. remember its not what you got its what you give, if you workout alot you will be big if you work alot youll have more money..
these days im working my job alot more and being lean and fit is a priority than to being massive. although i think i can pull it off and be bigger than my previous best now that i have completley eliminated meat this year, now i will fill it in with natural carbs/protiens like beans and peas, they also contain PROTEASE wich helps recycle protiens, brocolli is very good at this
i am going to be upping calories considerably and focus mainly on leg training, because i think i have a good chance at the world record in sprinting
the key is haveing a high calorie amount with NO TOXIC MEAT and keep fat as low as possible and HIGH IN PROTEASE AND PROTIENS AND FIBER
ive seen many big strong people that hardly workout but are STRONG because the CALORIES do more muscle BUILDING than the actual WORKOUT. beleive it or not , look around, many big country dudes first time in the gym can load up all the plates on a back machine and row it, and they hardly ever lift but may dude your normal manual labor, they are strong cause they EAT alot
me ive never been crazy strong but here are some of my best lifts
365 bounce bench press for 2 reps sloppy form
500 pound deadlift (i hate deadlift not good at it)
315 squat all the way down for 5 quality reps
225 cheat curl for 3 reps, alot of cheat but did it nonetheless
185 standing military with no knee jeark behined the neck for 1 or 2 reps (too much wieght )
Yea i understand what youre saying. Your main focus is to work and make money while staying fit. You have your priorities straight.
Those are some pretty strong lifts as well.
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(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/s.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/getbig043.jpg)
at 250 with pump
250 with pump is the physique you should strive for again.
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Yea i understand what youre saying. Your main focus is to work and make money while staying fit. You have your priorities straight.
Those are some pretty strong lifts as well.
i couldnt lift those numbers now, but im feeling more motivated these days
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heres like 230 but legs look down in size but upper body looks better?(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_3227f.jpg)
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1 ab and thigh getbig II 225 pounds? the pic that cost me the win in getbig II ;D musta been high, na i sent that bitch in on time!!!
2 closeup pic from getbig I 230-235 pounds
3 when i was near my heaviest at 260 pounds but abs well washed out
4 me at 225
all pics relatively the same at different bodyweights
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/abthich.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/getbig100ff.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/getbig638kk.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/getbig1220tttt.jpg)
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Natural is anything under 200 lbs ripped and under 6ft tall.
It is an impossibility for anyone to be over 200 lbs and under 6 ft at low, low bodyfat.
Even 190 lbs is a stretch if not an impossibility when under 6 ft.
For you yes, bit not for someone with good genetics who knows how to train and uses smart nutrition and supplementation.
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BIG ACH: another liar and moron. Admits to using over the counter anabolic steroids and has the audacity to say he's drug free and natural! What a joke. Looking at the most muscular pic of him it's immediately obvious he's on drugs there. Plenty of drugs went into building that body, and I'm sure not just OTC drugs.
So lets see them, without the use of PERFORMANCE ENHANCERS, what is the biggest / leanest / most shredded anyone can get naturally (ACCORDING TO GET BIG)?
Well, we know how big you could get without drugs, anabolic steroids in particular, and that is much smaller than you are now.
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For you yes, bit not for someone with good genetics who knows how to train and uses smart nutrition and supplementation.
adonis is playing the game of superior conditioning and he is winning
if adonis wanted to be lean and over 200 pounds it would mean more sacrifice and laboring in the gym
anyone can do anything , it aint what you got its what you GIVE
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heres like 230 but legs look down in size but upper body looks better?(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_3227f.jpg)
Your upper body is still a little down, but it's definitely looking better than it has been.
Out of the 4 shots, you probably looked your best in the Getbig I pic, big with abs.
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For you yes, bit not for someone with good genetics who knows how to train and uses smart nutrition and supplementation.
Epic 2 post count. I bet you are one of the OCB`ers or Musclemania liars I have exposed.
-
Adam, answer my question.
I have much delight to show you.
hahah yes!
Expose the Musclemania Fraud!
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Epic 2 post count. I bet you are one of the OCB`ers or Musclemania liars I have exposed.
I know a 17 y/o HS kid who is 5"10 220 @ 8% BF
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Do you know how much you dudes are acting like weenies?
-
Lord Adam, feast your eyes upon this most bountifull of bullshitting fuckwits:
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you, Muscle Manias 'Rob Terry':
Exhibit A: Dwarfing Gunter!
(http://www.musclemania.com/athelete_page/rob_terry/03.jpg)
Exhibit B: At 6'5" and 285lbs, lets overlook the fact that Rob is around the same size as Rolf Moller!!!
(http://www.musclemania.com/athelete_page/rob_terry/20.jpg)
This clown has also just been offered a WWE developmental contract, because Vince was 'impressed by the huge guy that has one some big natural shows in the UK and Europe.
Adonis, seriously, I'm not sure who are the bigger wankers? the losers (such as the skinny roid monster with blue stars in this thread) that claim natural status, or the idiots who believe them?
What say you, sir?
hes more like 240-250 Remember Johnny Falcon is the true master
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ok so this guy is 285 at 6feet5? thats bullshit hes decent
this pic im 227 or so at 6feet6 just a house painter and gasoline drinker
(http://www.musclemania.com/athelete_page/rob_terry/20.jpg)(http://www.musclewebsites.com/clients/mrgetbig2/shots5/DWfrontdblbicepsLARGE.jpg)
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Lord Adam, feast your eyes upon this most bountifull of bullshitting fuckwits:
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you, Muscle Manias 'Rob Terry':
Exhibit A: Dwarfing Gunter!
(http://www.musclemania.com/athelete_page/rob_terry/03.jpg)
Exhibit B: At 6'5" and 285lbs, lets overlook the fact that Rob is around the same size as Rolf Moller!!!
(http://www.musclemania.com/athelete_page/rob_terry/20.jpg)
This clown has also just been offered a WWE developmental contract, because Vince was 'impressed by the huge guy that has one some big natural shows in the UK and Europe.
Adonis, seriously, I'm not sure who are the bigger wankers? the losers (such as the skinny roid monster with blue stars in this thread) that claim natural status, or the idiots who believe them?
What say you, sir?
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
That is a culmination of the entire absurdity of such claims. Truly a testament of testosterone abuse. I can only scoff at the deluded who cling to this fellows coattails in the hopes that his "naturalosity" is simply a product of "doing everything just right".
Never before has so much bullshit flew so ever headlong into such a brisk wind. The sad thing is the fecal covered faces who would defend this chap through windy gale and after yonder all will never remove the painted false smug and shit smiling grin as they champion this clown for what he isn`t.
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ok so this guy is 285 at 6feet5? thats bullshit hes decent
this pic im 227 or so at 6feet6 just a house painter and gasoline drinker
(http://www.musclemania.com/athelete_page/rob_terry/20.jpg)(http://www.musclewebsites.com/clients/mrgetbig2/shots5/DWfrontdblbicepsLARGE.jpg)
there are no superstars no olympians
just people who got lucky enough to compete
the real superheros post on getbig !!!
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the real superheros post on getbig !!!
Agreed.
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'teh' natural legend
Croatch
that guy is funny looking
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speaking of "heavy"
greatest song ever
-
I'm a natural guy. Used to compete, judge and promote natural bodybuilding competitions. I was very successful as a natural athlete winning all of the natural shows in Florida and I even did 2 national drug tested shows. I was asked to represent Florida in the 1990 USA (that had drug testing for the first time) because FL had no athletes in the show. My next national show was the first Team Universe. The testing at this level was not very good and after seeing a guy in my class that failed the drug test at the show I promote standing on stage next to me I lost my desire to compete at that level again. At my heaviest I weighed 202 offseason at 5'8. My heaviest on stage weight was at the Team Universe where I weighed in at 174. I did one untested show as a natural (The Southern States) to see how I would fair against drug users and because I had won all the tested shows in the state. I won my class there over George Mariano and got 2 second place votes in the overall. I have appeared on the cover of Natural Physique magazine and won the first ever Natural Bodybuilding Man of the Year Award in Florida. Here are some pics of me at the Team Universe(I'm in the aqua trunks)
(http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/RammerTU1.jpg)
(http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/RammerTU2.jpg)
Here's the photo shoot for my Natural Physique cover. Here I weighed 158 and had just won the middleweight and overall at a statewide tested show.
All my competition videos are on YouTube if you want to check them out:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Karialec
You'll have to sort through the other videos to find my clips but they are all there including my first show and some offseason guest posings.
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I'm a natural guy. Used to compete, judge and promote natural bodybuilding competitions. I was very successful as a natural athlete winning all of the natural shows in Florida and I even did 2 national drug tested shows. I was asked to represent Florida in the 1990 USA (that had drug testing for the first time) because FL had no athletes in the show. My next national show was the first Team Universe. The testing at this level was not very good and after seeing a guy in my class that failed the drug test at the show I promote standing on stage next to me I lost my desire to compete at that level again. At my heaviest I weighed 202 offseason at 5'8. My heaviest on stage weight was at the Team Universe where I weighed in at 174. I did one untested show as a natural (The Southern States) to see how I would fair against drug users and because I had won all the tested shows in the state. I won my class there over George Mariano and got 2 second place votes in the overall. I have appeared on the cover of Natural Physique magazine and won the first ever Natural Bodybuilding Man of the Year Award in Florida. Here are some pics of me at the Team Universe(I'm in the aqua trunks)
(http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/RammerTU1.jpg)
(http://usera.imagecave.com/Rammer/RammerTU2.jpg)
Here's the photo shoot for my Natural Physique cover. Here I weighed 158 and had just won the middleweight and overall at a statewide tested show.
All my competition videos are on YouTube if you want to check them out:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Karialec
You'll have to sort through the other videos to find my clips but they are all there including my first show and some offseason guest posings.
dicuss your diet please
-
...
http://musclememory.com/show.php?a=Ramirez,+Alec (fixed)
(http://musclememory.com/magCovers/np/np0402.jpg)
and btw, JMT
-
As you can see, Rammer is a TRUE top of the line Lifetime Natural unlike these other bullshit artists and clowns.
They seem to think Natural and Clean or "off cycle" are all interchangeable with lifetime natural.
Clowns.
-
http://musclememory.com/show.php?a=Ramirez,+Alex
(http://musclememory.com/magCovers/np/np0402.jpg)
That Muscle Memory competitive history is wrong but that is my magazine cover. They have combined some of my history with that of an Alex Ramirez (I am Alec), my last show was the 1994 TU.
Thanks for the props Adonis!
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this thread ( a great one by the way) is no different to the Chris Faildo thread about his "natural status".
the doubters are comprised of people
1) absolutely no competitive experience, therefore can only guess at what is/isn't possible
2) juicers that are so dependent on their drugs, that they cannot relate to/fathom what true discipline is
3) naturals that are so insecure about themselves. that anyone who is bigger or more conditioned "has to be on something"..
These people need to practice a Kurt Weidner, Doug Miller, Brian Whitacre type of bodybuilding lifestyle before attempting
to define what is possible without the use of drugs.
-
That Muscle Memory competitive history is wrong but that is my magazine cover. They have combined some of my history with that of an Alex Ramirez (I am Alec), my last show was the 1994 TU.
"they" is me, so I will fix it.
-
this thread ( a great one by the way) is no different to the Chris Faildo thread about his "natural status".
the doubters are comprised of people
1) absolutely no competitive experience, therefore can only guess at what is/isn't possible
2) juicers that are so dependent on their drugs, that they cannot relate to/fathom what true discipline is
3) naturals that are so insecure about themselves. that anyone who is bigger or more conditioned "has to be on something"..
These people need to practice a Kurt Weidner, Doug Miller, Brian Whitacre type of bodybuilding lifestyle before attempting
to define what is possible without the use of drugs.
::)
You are forgetting to include the largest group. Naturals who lie about being natural.
Look how awesome Rammer looks as a Natural. Then look at some of the other musclemania and company clowns who claim "natural". It is a blatant slap in the face to Rammer and people such as me who are truly lifetime natural.
Read Rammer`s own personal experience of being a top natural. He is a guy who knows the truth and is clearly not afraid to say it.
Stop living with your head in the sand. That goes for a good majority of you.
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"they" is me, so I will fix it.
Can I PM you my contest history so it can be correct and complete?
-
When talking about the potential of a natural..this is as close that one could get..with that said, Heath isn't natural here
but this is the limit!!!
</thread>
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When talking about the potential of a natural..this is as close that one could get..with that said, Heath isn't natural here
but this is the limit!!!
</thread>
Drugs from day one. The "Gift" is a package of vials in the mail.
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NOT NATURAL there.
Stop perpetuating the myth.
did you even read my post..I did state that he wasn't natural there..stop making your own butter and pay attention Adonis
-
Can I PM you my contest history so it can be correct and complete?
you can email me at fogarty @ musclememory . com, but as I reply 3-4 times a week:
Results are added by contest, not by individual. That is I need complete results. I'm unable to list who placed third without also listing who placed second and first. I'm unable to list who won one class without also listing who won the other classes and the overall. If you have complete results of (not too obscure) contests, I'll be glad to add them to the database.
There is no Alec Ramirez page on my web server. There is a database, and all the pages you see are created from the database at the time you request it. I have over 40,000 athletes in the database. Think if I had to edit every athletes page every time there was a contest.
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did you even read my post..I did state that he wasn't natural there..stop making your own butter and pay attention Adonis
Sorry about that my friend hahhah.
I will revise the earlier posts.
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but this is the limit!!!
if you admit that it took drugs for a gifted athlete to achieve that type of physique, why would you think that anyone could achieve it naturally?
-
if you admit that it took drugs for a gifted athlete to achieve that type of physique, why would you think that anyone could achieve it naturally?
That was kind of what I was getting at. haha
-
you can email me at fogarty @ musclememory . com, but as I reply 3-4 times a week:
Results are added by contest, not by individual. That is I need complete results. I'm unable to list who placed third without also listing who placed second and first. I'm unable to list who won one class without also listing who won the other classes and the overall. If you have complete results of (not too obscure) contests, I'll be glad to add them.
Ok, I have official NPC scoresheets from some of the shows that I could scan and email to you. On the other shows I'll see what I can dig up, I know I have all the magazine clippings that have the complete results from each show I did if you'll accept scans of them as official results.
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Ok, I have official NPC scoresheets from some of the shows that I could scan and email to you. On the other shows I'll see what I can dig up, I know I have all the magazine clippings that have the complete results from each show I did if you'll accept scans of them as official results.
Rammer,
How is your training these days? Did you keep it all up despite giving up competing?
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Rammmer puny ass gave his expereince
so that's the "truth"
Rammer is the zenith of the unviverse just because he tries real hard
I've seen guys in prison who look better than you Rammer
No offense but to think you are that great in this big big world is ridiculous.
TA just because you "talk" the most only gives you credibility in your own mind
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Ok, I have official NPC scoresheets from some of the shows that I could scan and email to you. On the other shows I'll see what I can dig up, I know I have all the magazine clippings that have the complete results from each show I did if you'll accept scans of them as official results.
most of the results in the database came from old magazines. (I have over 2500, but none since the late 90s) But clearly I don't have all. For more recent contests I usually get results off of other websites. One place where I'm certainly lacking results is from Florida. The Florida NPC doesn't post results on the web. They want you to buy Southern Muscle Magazine, which I'm not going to do. My site is a hobby, not a money making venture.
-
How old are you, Tim? And do you juice or take hormone replacement?
-
if you admit that it took drugs for a gifted athlete to achieve that type of physique, why would you think that anyone could achieve it naturally?
and thus the limit..it is not meant for the average joe.
you would have to genetically gifted, train at 100% and diet at 100%
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Rammer,
How is your training these days? Did you keep it all up despite giving up competing?
I kept it up training at that level for many years after I stopped competing. I did many guest posing appearances after my last show and was probably in the best shape of my life for a photo shoot 4 years after my last show. I really should have gotten on stage but there were no shows at that time but at least I have the pictures. I'm still training, not at that level and not competing. I have a normal job now(was a gym manager and PT at the time I was competing) and am married so priorities changed from competing to just staying fit and enjoying life.
-
How old are you, Tim? And do you juice or take hormone replacement?
My birthdate is on my website, and I've never claimed to be lifetime natural.
-
49, huh? Is this a pciture of you are anything close to 49?
If so, you look good (FYI..I'm straight)
How old were you here?
(http://fogarty.org/tim/images/TimFogarty2000.jpg)
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How old were you here?
the name of the pic says 2000, so that would have made me 41
-
falcon is on his way back:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_3084sss.jpg)
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falcon is on his way back:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_3084sss.jpg)
He looks like he needs to be de-programmed. :-\
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Kurt Weidner et al couldn't be natural if they are better than you now could they?
how do I know you are natural? because you say so? or because your photos aren't better than so and so's?
your logic is fairly weak minded and only highlights your insecurity
::)
You are forgetting to include the largest group. Naturals who lie about being natural.
Look how awesome Rammer looks as a Natural. Then look at some of the other musclemania and company clowns who claim "natural". It is a blatant slap in the face to Rammer and people such as me who are truly lifetime natural.
Read Rammer`s own personal experience of being a top natural. He is a guy who knows the truth and is clearly not afraid to say it.
Stop living with your head in the sand. That goes for a good majority of you.
-
Kurt Weidner et al couldn't be natural if they are better than you now could they?
how do I know you are natural? because you say so? or because your photos aren't better than so and so's?
your logic is fairly weak minded and only highlights your insecurity
I am not the measuring stick. Human Physiology is.
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49, huh? Is this a pciture of you are anything close to 49?
If so, you look good (FYI..I'm straight)
How old were you here?
(http://fogarty.org/tim/images/TimFogarty2000.jpg)
what a beast. :o ;D
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heres like 230 but legs look down in size but upper body looks better?(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_3227f.jpg)
Drying legs is really tough. If you have gen for it, not.
-
(http://fogarty.org/tim/images/TimFogarty2000.jpg)
Monster 36 inch chest and 13.5 inch arms!!!!!!!!
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Monster 36 inch chest and 13.5 inch arms!!!!!!!!
But he looks like he is getting decent pussy.
-
Right now I am sitting 3 weeks out of the WNBF International and in the mornings I am 193. As far as Kurt goes...I would bet he is. I was able to pull a 405 for 6 on deadlifts a couple of weeks ago. I dont go all out on them so close to a show any more due to a hamstring injury while prepping a few years ago. I stood next to Kurt in 2006. He is very lean....very dry. Same thing with Brian Whitacre. I know that people talk about the "advances in supps..." etc. I think that might play a 5 - 10% roll in how someone looks. I really think that if they dont get all sloppy and crappy in the off season that they will have a much easier time looking better the next time they compete. Kurt and Brian do multiple shows a year. Do I think that helps them get into better contest shape than others....yep. I do one show a year. My 'normal life' doesnt allow for me to do more shows than 1 - 2 a year.
Right now I feel I look a lot better than I did in 2006. I have busted my ass to do so. I will be absolutely pissed if I dont significantly improve my placings from the last time I did this show.
Anyway....probably talking out of my ass right now.
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Here is a pic of me in 99, 2 days after I won the Mr Natural World.I was right around 222 in this pic.
I smoothed out a lil after eating and the flight back.But I am still pretty lean
My contest weight was 217lbs.I would get up to 250 lbs, then diet down to 216-218lbs, on stage.
I didnt use any pro-hormones, because they were banned by the organization that I competed in.
I pretty much used Creatine, L-Glutamine, BCAAS,Protein powder, and fat burners, thats it.
Nothing fancy.So you can get big naturally if you eat right, train hard rest, and most importantly ,dont overtrain!!!!!!!
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But he looks like he is getting decent Cock.
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John....sent you e-mails....hope they didnt hit the spam folder.
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(http://www.davepalumbo.com/2006%20Photos/NPC%20TEAM%20UNIVERSE%20FREE/images/DSC07476.jpg)
Lifetime drug free.
(http://www.lendamurraybodybuilding.com/images/gustavo1.jpg)
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(http://www.davepalumbo.com/2006%20Photos/NPC%20TEAM%20UNIVERSE%20FREE/images/DSC07476.jpg)
Lifetime drug free.
(http://www.lendamurraybodybuilding.com/images/gustavo1.jpg)
Solid Nattys, they have my respect.
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Somebody needs to start a thread to sit along side this one called "Post pics of the furthest you can get FROM being natural!"
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Somebody needs to start a thread to sit along side this one called "Post pics of the furthest you can get FROM being natural!"
Done.
-
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/JamesPhoenix/Fitness/crushingyouwithhotness.jpg)
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I am not the measuring stick. Human Physiology is.
Yeah, that's great logic and science. No one ever grew to be 7'6" tall either.
Because the masses never have, right TA?
Your logic isn't scientific AT ALL. You claim to be a man of logic.
Admit right now you have no science to back up any of your claims. Just your expereinces and your EMOTION.
Why should we believe YOU are natural?
You are a nutcase. You talk, talk, talk, talk talk all the time about who is natural and who is not.
What did Shakespeare say about people like YOU? Protesting too much?
Neurotic. Pedantic. Way too much into other people's business. You aren't a healthy man and your millions of posts show it. Unfortunately, YOU don't know it (like all off balanced people don't).
Oh, yeah. We're supposed to believe you because you have a million posts CRAMMING your agenda down our throats.
My guess is you are on drugs.
You are no different than all those self-righteous politicians with their "dirty little secrets, TA.
-
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/JamesPhoenix/Fitness/bluenailsandbigbiceps.jpg)
-
100% natural
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/JamesPhoenix/Fitness/contractthemuscle.jpg)
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(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/JamesPhoenix/Fitness/crushingyouwithhotness.jpg)
Awesome physique as usual, James.
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Awesome physique as usual, James.
Thanks stud, I plan on crushing the competition when I make my bodybuilding debut.
I wonder though, is bodybuilding ready for me?
Stay fierce man.
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did last night!
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did last night!
ha ha, you're so gay.
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100% natural
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/JamesPhoenix/Fitness/contractthemuscle.jpg)
Would be hilarious if you are not natural :D On the same level like goodrum.
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Would be hilarious if you are not natural :D On the same level like goodrum.
are you saying that james painting his nails is just about as gay as having 10 cocks in your mouth, musclehedz?
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Would be hilarious if you are not natural :D On the same level like goodrum.
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/JamesPhoenix/Fitness/Jesus.jpg)
I've had people tell me it's scary how big I'm getting. So, considering that, I'll chalk your negativity up to trolling.
I get pm's all the time telling me how good I look.
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(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/JamesPhoenix/Fitness/crushingyouwithhotness.jpg)
get that shit off your nails boy.
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(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/JamesPhoenix/Fitness/Jesus.jpg)
I've had people tell me it's scary how big I'm getting. So, considering that, I'll chalk your negativity up to trolling.
I get pm's all the time telling me how good I look.
You look as though you have a fondness for the cock. :-X
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get that shit off your nails boy.
Haven't you seen that show "Chris Angel:Mindfreak"
Guys with nail polish are accepted and respected members of society today;
and total pussy magnets.
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are you saying that james painting his nails is just about as gay as having 10 cocks in your mouth, musclehedz?
No....its gayer than watching rhythmic gymnastics and shedding a tear after a 'stunning' routine.
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No....its gayer than watching rhythmic gymnastics and shedding a tear after a 'stunning' routine.
(Quickly changes channel)
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Haven't you seen that show "Chris Angel:Mindfreak"
Guys with nail polish are accepted and respected members of society today;
and total pussy magnets.
You, Angel, and Mystery. How original. I'm so original I copy my style.
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Haven't you seen that show "Chris Angel:Mindfreak"
Guys with nail polish are accepted and respected members of society today;
and total pussy magnets.
You are an emo. Please slit your wrists.
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(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/JamesPhoenix/Fitness/Jesus.jpg)
what is the necklace supposed to be? ???
:-X
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(http://www.davepalumbo.com/2006%20Photos/NPC%20TEAM%20UNIVERSE%20FREE/images/DSC07476.jpg)
Dude has some long ass arms... must be a great deadlifter.
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You, Angel, and Mystery. How original. I'm so original I copy my style.
I was painting my nails before I knew they were doing it.
It's an aesthetic enhancement. Mystery didn't invent it; women have been doing it forever.
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Guys with nail polish are accepted and respected members of society today;
accepted, sure. to each his own.
respected, not so much.
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James Phoenix is Special Ed's best gimmick by far.
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...
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http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o33/arce97/?action=view¤t=st13.jpg
NO PED here at all. I only weigh 70kg. though.
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Layne won his natty pro card at 5'11 195lbs shredded. Are you saying he's not natural because of his weight alone? That's all you base it off? And Layne and everyone knows his genetics aren't all that great btw... so somebody with awesome genetics and work ethic should be able to surpass that naturally.
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Layne won his natty pro card at 5'11 195lbs shredded. Are you saying he's not natural because of his weight alone? That's all you base it off? And Layne and everyone knows his genetics aren't all that great btw... so somebody with awesome genetics and work ethic should be able to surpass that naturally.
People greatly underestimate the natural limit.
I don't even have the greatest bodybuilding genetics in the world, or the best work ethic, but I've still managed to build a physique that garners attention in a short amount of time.
It's a symptom of the laziness that permeates society today; the quickness with which people reach for a needle.
I guess the thought is, "I can't do that, so he must be cheating somehow!."
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This guy is natural. Not in contest shape though.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=222371.0;attach=269832;image)
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This guy is natural. Not in contest shape though.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=222371.0;attach=269832;image)
Looking swole brah.
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http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o33/arce97/?action=view¤t=st13.jpg
NO PED here at all. I only weigh 70kg. though.
Thought you weighed more Arce!
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Looking swole brah.
Pretty skinny right now actually, but thanks!
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This guy is natural. Not in contest shape though.
but to get into contest shape, you'd lose a lot of your muscle.
you can have reasonable amounts of muscle mass without drugs. you can have conditioning without drugs. having them both at the same time is pretty much impossible without drugs.
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but to get into contest shape, you'd lose a lot of your muscle.
you can have reasonable amounts of muscle mass without drugs. you can have conditioning without drugs. having them both at the same time is pretty much impossible without drugs.
I agree. I already had to give up a lot of muscle for that condition.
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This is 'Phatmuscle' from bodybuilding.com. A lifetime natural and snappy dresser. Inspirational .
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This is 'Phatmuscle' from bodybuilding.com. A lifetime natural and snappy dresser. Inspirational .
he looks all of 5'2...congrats to him
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he looks all of 5'2...congrats to him
His lipstick and fashion sense rock though.
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only guys that are natural in those 11 page nonesense are the james kid and the guy with the back twards the camera in the last page,,that is it,,rest of guys been to hormones pro hormones and mnay other interesting candies chasing the muscle mainly for the girls to like them ,,,and then just because they became ocd to lifting as part of look dysmorphia
remember friends,,taking hormones and related products does not necesseraly means size,,not eveyone wanna be 5'10 230...some like to be 180 chizeled dry veiny ,,some like to maintain swimmer model look so the girls like them better,,,every hormones has its place,,,
size comes only if you want it and eat for it or if not eating enough defenitely resting enough and that means ususally being jobless or having rich girl so you can sleep all day and go for your 1-2 hours in the gym ,,eat sleep compete and walk around to show off what you got ..this is bodybuilding
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only guys that are natural in those 11 page nonesense are the james kid and the guy with the back twards the camera in the last page,,that is it,,rest of guys been to hormones pro hormones and mnay other interesting candies chasing the muscle mainly for the girls to like them ,,,and then just because they became ocd to lifting as part of look dysmorphia
remember friends,,taking hormones and related products does not necesseraly means size,,not eveyone wanna be 5'10 230...some like to be 180 chizeled dry veiny ,,some like to maintain swimmer model look so the girls like them better,,,every hormones has its place,,,
size comes only if you want it and eat for it or if not eating enough defenitely resting enough and that means ususally being jobless or having rich girl so you can sleep all day and go for your 1-2 hours in the gym ,,eat sleep compete and walk around to show off what you got ..this is bodybuilding
I'm pretty sure I saw you starring in Asian scat/bukkake porn, did you only do one video, or have you starred in your own series? ???
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only guys that are natural in those 11 page nonesense are the james kid and the guy with the back twards the camera in the last page,,that is it,,rest of guys been to hormones pro hormones and mnay other interesting candies chasing the muscle mainly for the girls to like them ,,,and then just because they became ocd to lifting as part of look dysmorphia
You forgot Sandow, Pandour, and Reeves.
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brah.
::) ::) ::) ::)
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You forgot Sandow, Pandour, and Reeves.
And this 18 y/o sexy mofo! haha "Teh Rowdmeister"
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And this 18 y/o sexy mofo! haha "Teh Rowdmeister"
the thread is about the natural limit, not what everyone looks like when they walk into a gym for the first time.
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the thread is about the natural limit, not what everyone looks like when they walk into a gym for the first time.
My definition of "natural" includes not training with any sort of weights. Just furious masturbation to Sasha Grey videos.
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your argument makes no sense, how is whey protein natural? it is derived from milking a cow and isolating fractions, what is natural about that?
first off for you to continue arguing why dont you lay down a definition of natural which can be used.
I think he means that whey is naturally occuring. Lactalbumin comprises about 3% of milk protein.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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today natural seems to be on hormones but not swollen because of eating disorders
i see no naturals at natural s competition, only juiced narrow people
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And this 18 y/o sexy mofo! haha "Teh Rowdmeister"
That's not him! The real Rowdy dude sports a porn 'stache.
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And this 18 y/o sexy mofo! haha "Teh Rowdmeister"
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=230327.0;attach=269949;image)
regrow the stache u look like 'Ron Avidans" weegar offspring
btw good improvements on the double bi, perfecting this pose is one of the first steps in fancying your gaymastery!!!
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im in a league of my own mentally and physically
not saying that to boast
there are many in the 5-10 percent that have knowledge of self
the rest are just ignorant and suck at everything and probably short hateful people, you could learn a little kindness from somebody tall :)
btw still big and lean
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/honigga/IMG_4009.jpg)
DW
paint yourself there and you can be part of "Blue Man Group" ;D
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DW
paint yourself there and you can be part of "Blue Man Group" ;D
Moose-Jay being a half moose half bird hybrid from historical biblical times, highly revered and respected by the ancient ones in past culture i am inclined to take your advices!
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this thread ( a great one by the way) is no different to the Chris Faildo thread about his "natural status".
the doubters are comprised of people
1) absolutely no competitive experience, therefore can only guess at what is/isn't possible
I have done 60 shows
2) juicers that are so dependent on their drugs, that they cannot relate to/fathom what true discipline is
Competed 8 years on juice, 15 without...did better without
3) naturals that are so insecure about themselves. that anyone who is bigger or more conditioned "has to be on something"..
These people need to practice a Kurt Weidner, Doug Miller, Brian Whitacre type of bodybuilding lifestyle before attempting
to define what is possible without the use of drugs.
Like I say, if you gotta scream "natural", you ain't
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Moose-Jay being a half moose half bird hybrid from historical biblical times, highly revered and respected by the ancient ones in past culture i am inclined to take your advices!
DW, you are a funny dude!
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only guys that are natural in those 11 page nonesense are the james kid and the guy with the back twards the camera in the last page,,that is it,,rest of guys been to hormones pro hormones and mnay other interesting candies chasing the muscle mainly for the girls to like them ,,,and then just because they became ocd to lifting as part of look dysmorphia
remember friends,,taking hormones and related products does not necesseraly means size,,not eveyone wanna be 5'10 230...some like to be 180 chizeled dry veiny ,,some like to maintain swimmer model look so the girls like them better,,,every hormones has its place,,,
size comes only if you want it and eat for it or if not eating enough defenitely resting enough and that means ususally being jobless or having rich girl so you can sleep all day and go for your 1-2 hours in the gym ,,eat sleep compete and walk around to show off what you got ..this is bodybuilding
Your shit is pretty old.....you said I was on something when I posted a pic. Closest thing to drugs I have been is watching a buddy shoot himself with test and equipose. If you want to say prohormone for me....I did ONE bottle of nor-19....didnt anything worth buying a 2nd bottle. That was back in the early 90's. Since then all organizations have pretty much banned the prohormones so I am SOL on using them.
In the end there will always be people like you who do use and love to point fingers at those who dont and say they do. Are some of these guys in the thread bullshitters? Absolutely. But like I said, guys like Whitacre and Widner....if you ever see them up close...you would know they are not on things like that.
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IMO we will never know the answer to the original question of this thread. Simply because, you can never be 100% sure if someone is a life-time natural (no hormones or pro-hormones). And yes, it is possible that even friends or family members lie. Considering that 90% of "naturals" are obviously not, my guess is that 90% of "pro-hormone-only" users are juicers and 90% of "AS-only" users have used everything there is.
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Your shit is pretty old.....you said I was on something when I posted a pic. Closest thing to drugs I have been is watching a buddy shoot himself with test and equipose. If you want to say prohormone for me....I did ONE bottle of nor-19....didnt anything worth buying a 2nd bottle. That was back in the early 90's. Since then all organizations have pretty much banned the prohormones so I am SOL on using them.
In the end there will always be people like you who do use and love to point fingers at those who dont and say they do. Are some of these guys in the thread bullshitters? Absolutely. But like I said, guys like Whitacre and Widner....if you ever see them up close...you would know they are not on things like that.
Insight Please.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=230543.0
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No insight needed. I stated my case well enough Adam. Since then its just been BCAA, creatine, glutamine, protein powder, and thermo's (ephedrine free).
Hope this doesn't detract from your opinion of me.....bottom line is that this "GH15" guy thinks that as soon as you reach a certain point you cant be drug free. I know i would be right where I am today with ot without that one damn bottle of Nor-19. I have done the smilax, boron, inosine, etc route to see if I could do it 'DRUG FREE". I have, and I will continue to do so until I feel I longer want to compete in bodybuilding. I have look at products a hell of a lot differently than I did back then. I dont want to be putting things in me that will make my liver go "holy shit!!! WTF was that???"
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people do not take advantage of there natural genetics and dont have faith inthemselves
i have more faith in myself than anyone i know, i was raised on the idea i could do anything. I always Plan to FAIL, but if you FAIL to plan then you FAIL
many do not experiment and only tried a few methods of dieting bulking and training
for me i started at 14 just messing around with weights, even back then i would do diet experiments!
every single day should be an experiment and every few or couple weeks you should make diet changes or training and document how you feel , how you look, and how much workouts' you are capable of in a day or a weeks time
the less you do the worse you will be probably. strive for a routine of diet and training that allows you to workout every day. any days you take OFF you are simply being a pussy or you just may be tired but thats ok too, i get mad at myself if im a pussy and take a day off, sometimes its not always my fault its a bad diet or smoking weed in the morning or the day time is really bad weed should be left to only at nights!
thinkabout it like this, if you take a day off, someone else is TRAINING and LEARNING and possibly losing fat at a greater rate than someone taking a day off. when you start taking days off one day can turn into two ...if you are simply burned out then its probably you are really burnt out or you need to ADD something to your diet like olive oil or protien or carbs
many of us forgets how much our diet can control our lives , we underestimate it drastically
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why aren't you huge if you lift everyday JF?
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That's not him! The real Rowdy dude sports a porn 'stache.
;D haha I've been 'stache free for a little while now. Still plenty of time to grow a decent one for Movember though. Plus chicks dig it :P A kiss without a mustache is like soup without salt
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why aren't you huge if you lift everyday JF?
ive had the biggest quads in all of the getbigs you fool
plus im the tallest
thus that makes my bodyparts even more bigger than the rest of the competiton
i dwarf you and the rest. not boasting its just a fact the proof is in the pics
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ive had the biggest quads in all of the getbigs you fool
plus im the tallest
thus that makes my bodyparts even more bigger than the rest of the competiton
i dwarf you and the rest. not boasting its just a fact the proof is in the pics
hahahahaa, ok "big guy". ::)
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=230327.0;attach=269949;image)
regrow the stache u look like 'Ron Avidans" weegar offspring
btw good improvements on the double bi, perfecting this pose is one of the first steps in fancying your gaymastery!!!
haha I will now be known as Rowd Avidan.
Thanks Falcon, your youtube videos are a source of inspiration in the quest for gaymastery.
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I have done the smilax, boron, inosine, etc route to see if I could do it 'DRUG FREE".
why would you use those chemicals if you wanted to see if you could do it drug free? they may worthless drugs regarding muscle building, but they're certainly drugs.
Inosine is a nucleoside, a precursor to adenosine. Inosine has been used to treat MS patients. Inosine supplementation raises uric acid levels in the body. sounds like a drug to me.
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get that shit off your nails boy.
...is that some sort of nail fungus ???
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i was wondering when you were going to jump in with the typical "the whole world is hormones!" idiotic rant.
only guys that are natural in those 11 page nonesense are the james kid and the guy with the back twards the camera in the last page,,that is it,,rest of guys been to hormones pro hormones and mnay other interesting candies chasing the muscle mainly for the girls to like them ,,,and then just because they became ocd to lifting as part of look dysmorphia
remember friends,,taking hormones and related products does not necesseraly means size,,not eveyone wanna be 5'10 230...some like to be 180 chizeled dry veiny ,,some like to maintain swimmer model look so the girls like them better,,,every hormones has its place,,,
size comes only if you want it and eat for it or if not eating enough defenitely resting enough and that means ususally being jobless or having rich girl so you can sleep all day and go for your 1-2 hours in the gym ,,eat sleep compete and walk around to show off what you got ..this is bodybuilding
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why would you use those chemicals if you wanted to see if you could do it drug free? they may worthless drugs regarding muscle building, but they're certainly drugs.
Inosine is a nucleoside, a precursor to adenosine. Inosine has been used to treat MS patients. Inosine supplementation raises uric acid levels in the body. sounds like a drug to me.
You are classifying smilax as a drug??? WTF??? Are you retarded?? As far as what inosine was used for, do you honestly think that what was included back in the bottles was anywhere near what they would give MS patients? Thats like someone saying the homeopathic GH formula is comparable to what they give people with achondroplasia.
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(http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200801/r218066_852221.jpg)
cutler last olympia press conference looking solid.
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You are classifying smilax as a drug??? WTF??? Are you retarded??
did you see me use the word smilax?
As far as what inosine was used for, do you honestly think that what was included back in the bottles was anywhere near what they would give MS patients? Thats like someone saying the homeopathic GH formula is comparable to what they give people with achondroplasia.
ok, so whether it is a drug or not depends on the concentration. how much cypionate can you inject while remaining a drug free bodybuilder?
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(http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200801/r218066_852221.jpg)
cutler last olympia press conference looking solid.
That's not jay cutler.
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Adam - This is Doug. I am clean and I am good friends with Kurt and he is too. I'm not sure why all the doubt. When you truly live and breath bodybuilding, anything is possible. I will not let the fact that I am natural limit what I can and cannot achieve. Why would you put limits on yourself?
Best,
Doug
You are not natural. ::)
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did you see me use the word smilax?
ok, so whether it is a drug or not depends on the concentration. how much cypionate can you inject while remaining a drug free bodybuilder?
I have done the smilax, boron, inosine, etc route to see if I could do it 'DRUG FREE".
why would you use those chemicals if you wanted to see if you could do it drug free? they may worthless drugs regarding muscle building, but they're certainly drugs.
Right there you referred to them as drugs. And once again, if you consider smilax, boron, or any of the other bullshit anecdotal supps from the 80's and 90's as drugs...wow....I shake my head. I spent a shit load of money of worthless crap back then not realizing what a scam some of supplement industry was.
Oh, and how much cyp could someone use and be drug free? Stupid question, no sense answering it. Like I asked....are you seriously trying to equate the things that were out on the shelves in a vitamin store with legitimate pharmaceuticals? Use my example of the homeopathic GH versus the prescription-based GH please.
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You are classifying smilax as a drug??? WTF??? Are you retarded?? As far as what inosine was used for, do you honestly think that what was included back in the bottles was anywhere near what they would give MS patients? Thats like someone saying the homeopathic GH formula is comparable to what they give people with achondroplasia.
Tim is certainly not a retard. There are a lot of things you can buy at a supplement store that are OTC or prescription drugs also in other countries, or even in the US. This includes herbal extracts, minerals, vitamins and etc. There is no hard line between a nutritional supplement and a drug.
Even something like creatine can be called a drug and is in fact an Rx drug in some countries.
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NEXT someone is going to say they failed a drug test for using cybergenics.
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Boron, is not a drug, and is pretty much useless for bodybuilders.The old saying was Boron, is for morons, lol.We started saying this after all tried it and it didnt to crap, its useless.Smilax is just Sarsparilla which is just a root, that does nothing.Sarsparilla is just friggin root beer for gods sake !!!!Since when has Root Beer been considered anabolic or a drug ??????Smilax, or Sarsparilla, is useless for bodybuilders, but its tastes good.So next time your drinks A&W or Barqs Root Beer, just remember how anabolic your soda is lmao
Boron:is a biologically active trace mineral which affects calcium, magnesium and phosphorus metabolism. Boron is known to support bone strength and structure in animals but its significance in humans is less certain.
Smilax, or Sarsparilla Root beer, also known as sarsaparilla, is a carbonated beverage originally created from sassafras. Root beer, popularized in North America, comes in two forms: alcoholic and soft drink.
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Camera Trick my friend. Notice the "Dutch Angle", light and fuzzy quality.
Here is a better pic from the same time period to show just how obese that REALLY is.
(http://www.wpse.com/Galleries/1/139/The%20True%20Adonis_20466.jpg)
Man,I cant believe you wore a string tank top at that bf% ;D
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Boron, is not a drug, and is pretty much useless for bodybuilders.
anything in large enough doses can have drug-like effects on the body.
boron was one of the first scam supplements in the bodybuilding magazines. there were ads for it in most every magazine throughout the 70s and into the 80s. and it was all because of a single scientific study that showed boron supplementation raised testosterone levels in post-menopausal women with boron deficiencies. publish the first part in your ad, skipping that second part, and it's free money!
Right there you referred to them as drugs.
I talked about inosine, which is most certainly a drug
And once again, if you consider smilax, boron, or any of the other bullshit anecdotal supps from the 80's and 90's as drugs...wow....I shake my head. I spent a shit load of money of worthless crap back then not realizing what a scam some of supplement industry was.
but you who value being a drug free bodybuilder are more than willing to inject chemicals that you have no idea what their effect will be, but are taking them in the hope of making muscle gains.
Oh, and how much cyp could someone use and be drug free? Stupid question, no sense answering it. Like I asked....are you seriously trying to equate the things that were out on the shelves in a vitamin store with legitimate pharmaceuticals? Use my example of the homeopathic GH versus the prescription-based GH please.
yes, picograms of gh will have no effect on the body. but milligrams will. but people take homeopathic doses of GH (Sprayflex) hoping to see results. how can they take a supplement that they hope will have an effect on their body, and still see themselves as a drug free bodybuilder?
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Younger brother at Age 21... 6'2 220-250 lbs depending on how cut he is at the time... all natural.
I think a lot more is acheivable without drugs than people believe.
1) his age
2) get down to 4-5% bodyfat as required for competition and see how much muscle mass he's able to hold on to
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Younger brother at Age 21... 6'2 220-250 lbs depending on how cut he is at the time... all natural.
Recently won the PA strongman contest for the Light Heavyweights. Was the only person in his division to flip the 1250 lb tire. Can bench press in the low 400's, Deadlift 405 lbs 15 times in 60 seconds, and does chinups with up to 4 plates around his waist.
I think a lot more is acheivable without drugs than people believe.
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/TakingaBreak.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/222-1-1.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/111-1.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/4508-SideTri.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/4508-SideChest.jpg)
Sick Legs.
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Younger brother at Age 21... 6'2 220-250 lbs depending on how cut he is at the time... all natural.
Recently won the PA strongman contest for the Light Heavyweights. Was the only person in his division to flip the 1250 lb tire. Can bench press in the low 400's, Deadlift 405 lbs 15 times in 60 seconds, and does chinups with up to 4 plates around his waist.
I think a lot more is acheivable without drugs than people believe.
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/TakingaBreak.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/222-1-1.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/111-1.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/4508-SideTri.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/4508-SideChest.jpg)
Amazing Calves...
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DIBENaCOZIDE was another anabolic wonder from the 80's.
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Brutal Bicep Peak.
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I talked about inosine, which is most certainly a drug
but you who value being a drug free bodybuilder are more than willing to inject chemicals that you have no idea what their effect will be, but are taking them in the hope of making muscle gains.
yes, picograms of gh will have no effect on the body. but milligrams will. but people take homeopathic doses of GH (Sprayflex) hoping to see results. how can they take a supplement that they hope will have an effect on their body, and still see themselves as a drug free bodybuilder?
Where did I say I am willing to inject myself with anything? Probably one of the biggest reasons I DONT use....I cant stand needles. I read the "supposed' effects of inosine back in the day (in fact, Strength Systems USA was the brand)....and figured wow...could help workout energy. Exactly one half bottle into it I was like...bulllllllllllllls hit. Tossed it...didnt think twice about it.
We will never agree on this. We both can agree that the supplement industry does try and dupe customers on how well something works (read: muscletech). I used ephedrine....then had to stop. I KNOW how effective it was. I wish I could use it. Cant do it...wont do it.
There you have it....
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DIBENaCOZIDE was another anabolic wonder from the 80's.
Gawd....forgot about that...made from rice, correct?
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I used ephedrine....then had to stop. I KNOW how effective it was. I wish I could use it. Cant do it...wont do it.
so if the org you wish to compete in allows it, then it's ok.
so join the npc
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- timfogarty
Here you go...
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/n25815193_36337822_8876-1.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/SimplyHuge/n25815193_36337815_5924-1.jpg)
and for TrueAdonis...you don't even come close buddy...
He is not lean enough.
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J-Rod Pwns him. THAT is at least how lean one should be.
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simply huge, your brother looks amazing !
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simply huge, your brother looks amazing !
He's not bad, but there are way better naturals out there.
(http://www.francoisgay.com/bilderweb/franc-ztng1.jpg)
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so if the org you wish to compete in allows it, then it's ok.
so join the npc
No thanks....steroid users....ILLEGAL drugs.....get it? Hard to comprehend?
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No thanks....steroid users....ILLEGAL drugs.....get it? Hard to comprehend?
WRONG illegal to have WITHOUT a prescription , very legal to have with one .
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WRONG illegal to have WITHOUT a prescription , very legal to have with one .
also perfectly legal if you live near a border town. AS are OTC in MX. It's not smuggling if it's already IM.
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also perfectly legal if you live near a border town. AS are OTC in MX. It's not smuggling if it's already IM.
exactly ! nothing stopping people from making day trips like Romano , and its not illegal to be under the infulence of them just having them without a Dr's script
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WRONG illegal to have WITHOUT a prescription , very legal to have with one .
Dang....powned....
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ALL NATURAL HAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAHAHAHAHAHhahAhh
(http://www.musclemania.com/mmpro/hugh_ross_ny.jpg)
Looks like a black alien hi-breed...possible from area 51.
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People greatly underestimate the natural limit.
I don't even have the greatest face in the world, or the best work ethic, but I've still managed to build a physique that garners attention in a short amount of time.
It's a symptom of the laziness that permeates society today; the quickness with which people reach for a needle.
I guess the thought is, "I can't do that, so he must be cheating somehow!."
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He is not lean enough.
don't confuse leaness for hardness,he's lean and shows good seperation,but muscle hardness is tough to maintain clean at low bodyfat,peeled look that jrod shows is hard work with genetics.this kid is young and has good potential.
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I assume the smartest thing to do is admit you are all natural..Why in the world would you post your images and admit to illegal drug use? Especiall these days. Most of you probably do use something, but it didn't turn you into Ronnie or Jay overnight so you finally realize it takes tons of hard work, genetics and not just drugs to reach that level. Now you so called "naturals" are bitter so you hate on anyone who has nice physiques and post all of these posts claiming natural or not or all drugs. Why do you feel the need to do this? Why does it matter if someone is using something or not. Is your life that pathetic you spend hours on this site everyday posting thousands and thousands of times having to prove something to individuals who could care less about you. Steroids didn't do what you thought they would. Time to move on bros.