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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on January 22, 2011, 01:42:52 PM
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Not sure there is much of a changing trend. I think the majority of Americans have disagreed with Obama's (and Planned Parenthood's) view on abortion for quite a while.
On Roe V. Wade Anniversary, Abortion Foes Increasingly Confident of 'Cultural Shift'
Published January 22, 2011 | FoxNews.com
Anti-abortion activists in America head into their annual March for Life rallies confident that the huge election gains their allies made will lead to tougher restrictions in many states on the broad abortion access established 38 years ago by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Opponents of abortion gained strength in Congress, among state governors and in many state legislatures, raising hopes among social conservatives for a broad surge of anti-abortion bills.
"We are seeing a cultural shift toward protecting life and rolling back the tide of unrestricted abortions, said Charmaine Yoest, president of Americans United for Life, in a statement ahead of Saturday's anniversary of the 1973 ruling.
Yoest and her allies have particularly high hopes for three types of bills under consideration in several states:
--Measures modeled after a Nebraska law passed last year that outlaws abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy, based on the assertion that fetuses can feel pain after that point. That's a departure from the standards set by the Supreme Court decision Roe v Wade, which allow states to limit abortions when there's a viable chance the fetus could survive outside the womb, generally between 22 and 24 weeks.
--Bills requiring women to have an ultrasound prior to an abortion. Some versions would also require doctors to describe the ultrasound image of the fetus to the woman.
--Laws prohibiting abortion coverage in health insurance plans offered by the new state exchanges that are to commence in 2014 under President Obama's health care overhaul. Five states passed such measures last year; more may follow suit.
In many states, prospects for passage of such measures are bright, although they may face court challenges. NARAL Pro-Choice America, a leading abortion-rights group, said there are now 29 anti-abortion governors out of 50 -- an increase of eight, including 15 in states where abortion opponents also control both legislative chambers.
"In those states in particular, there are almost no pro-choice checks and balances," said Donna Crane, NARAL's director of public policy.
While abortion-rights supporters traditionally hold commemorations of the court decision, the anniversary has become an even higher-profile date for the anti-abortion movement. Its major event, the March for Life in Washington, D.C., is scheduled this year to take place on Monday -- not the anniversary itself -- while other events are scheduled throughout the weekend nationwide.
Obama issued a statement Saturday reaffirming his commitment to protecting abortion rights.
"I also remain committed to policies, initiatives, and programs that help prevent unintended pregnancies, support pregnant women and mothers, encourage healthy relationships, and promote adoption," he said.
"And on this anniversary, I hope that we will recommit ourselves more broadly to ensuring that our daughters have the same rights, the same freedoms, and the same opportunities as our sons to fulfill their dreams."
On both sides of the debate, the mood contrasts sharply with 2009 and 2010.
Two years ago, the anniversary came two days after Obama's inauguration -- a time of enthusiasm among abortion-rights supporters, who tend to vote Democratic. A year ago, the anniversary coincided with the first day of testimony in the murder trial of Scott Roeder, who was later convicted of killing late-term abortion provider Dr. George Tiller at his church in Wichita, Kansas.
Kansas is now one of the states where anti-abortion activists hope for dramatic legislative gains.
Its new governor, Republican Sam Brownback, is an ardent foe of abortion who has made clear he will sign restrictive measures that his Democratic predecessors vetoed. Anti-abortion activists hope to advance bills that would further restrict late-term procedures, increase reporting requirements for abortion providers, and make it harder for abortion clinics to be licensed.
In several other states, Democratic governors who generally supported abortion rights were replaced by Republicans opposed to abortion, including the strategic swing states of Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania.
In Pennsylvania, the legislature is expected to convene hearings soon on why states agencies mishandled complaints about a Philadelphia abortion clinic run by a doctor now facing eight murder charges.
In some states, Republican governors and legislative leaders have said the message from the electorate on Nov. 2 was to concentrate on economics and job creation, and have signaled that social issues such as abortion should take a lower priority.
However, Daniel McConchie, vice president of government affairs for Americans United for Life, said there was no reason that Republican leaders couldn't tackle both the economy and abortion.
"For them to do nothing, when they have the opportunity to do something, I think would be problematic," he said. "Social conservatives are an integral part of the electorate."
At the federal level, anti-abortion forces scored significant gains in the House, and majority Republicans introduced two bills Thursday to toughen restrictions on taxpayer funding of abortions. One is aimed specifically at Obama's health care law; the other would establish a permanent, government-wide ban on federal subsidies for most abortions.
In addition, Republican Rep. Mike Pence has introduced a bill that would ban federal family-planning grants to any organization that performs abortions. It is aimed at the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, a health care provider and advocate of reproductive rights that last year, according to Pence, received more than $363 million in government grants and contracts while performing 324,008 abortions.
Abortion-rights supporters are nonetheless dismayed by their foes' clout in the House, though these measures might fail to clear the Senate, and would likely face a presidential veto if they did advance.
"We're taking all these threats very seriously," said Planned Parenthood public policy analyst Emily Stewart. "It's a crazy time, with a lot of stuff up in the air."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/22/roe-v-wade-anniversary-abortion-foes-increasingly-confident-cultural-shift/
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Not sure there is much of a changing trend. I think the majority of Americans have disagreed with Obama's (and Planned Parenthood's) view on abortion for quite a while.
looks like you're right
There's really been no major shift on either side since late ~ 1998
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looks like you're right
There's really been no major shift on either side since late ~ 1998
LOL just b/c youre pro choice doesnt mean youre not for more regulation straw man...
only your logic would lead you to that conclusion
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LOL just b/c youre pro choice doesnt mean youre not for more regulation straw man...
only your logic would lead you to that conclusion
oh brother
not you and teh logic again
btw - the first sentence is your post is hilarious
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oh brother
not you and teh logic again
btw - the first sentence is your post is hilarious
LMAO you disagree?
tell me what part im wrong about?
you think every person who labels themselves pro choice is against any sort of restrictions to abortion?
::) ::) ::)
MORAN!!!!! ;D
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LMAO you disagree?
tell me what part im wrong about?
you think every person who labels themselves pro choice is against any sort of restrictions to abortion?
::) ::) ::)
MORAN!!!!! ;D
another classic post
keep swinging slugger
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another classic post
keep swinging slugger
wow another post side stepping any questions and not disproving any ascertion by me...
WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT?????????
LMFAO
MORAN
;D :D ;)
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Obama recalls Roe v. Wade, backs abortion rights
By David Jackson, USA TODAY
President Obama waves as he walks past the Marine One helicopter on the South Lawn of the White House on Friday. Obama backed abortion rights Saturday in a statement about the anniversary of Roe v. Wade.CAPTIONBy Yuri Gripas, AFP/Getty ImagesPresident Obama echoed his support for abortion rights today, the 38th anniversary of the Supreme Court's pro-choice decision in Roe v. Wade.
"Government should not intrude on private family matters," Obama said in a statement, adding that he also supports policies to prevented "unintended pregnancies."
The president made his statement as thousands of abortion opponents planned annual March for Life rallies, with many hoping that the new Republican-run House will enact new restrictions on the practice.
"We are seeing a cultural shift toward protecting life and rolling back the tide of unrestricted abortions," said Charmaine Yoest, president of Americans United for Life.
Obama's statement:
Today marks the 38th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court decision that protects women's health and reproductive freedom, and affirms a fundamental principle: that government should not intrude on private family matters.
I am committed to protecting this constitutional right. I also remain committed to policies, initiatives, and programs that help prevent unintended pregnancies, support pregnant women and mothers, encourage healthy relationships, and promote adoption.
And on this anniversary, I hope that we will recommit ourselves more broadly to ensuring that our daughters have the same rights, the same freedoms, and the same opportunities as our sons to fulfill their dreams.
See photos of: Barack Obama
________________________ ________________________ ______
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Keep your laws off my body
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Keep your laws off my body
Yeah, lets start w obamacare - deal?
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Yeah, lets start w obamacare - deal?
;D
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Keep your rosaries off my ovaries!
Sex is murder!
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Keep your rosaries off my ovaries!
Sex is murder!
oh never heard that one..Good one dingdong
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Keep your laws off my body
GIVE MEN EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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GIVE MEN EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh here we go ;D Okay I'll play. Let me guess, you men want a say before a woman terminates a pregnancy?
If not the case, when you can push a bowling ball out of an opening of a tennis ball, or get sliced below your gut and give life then you can bitch ;D
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Hey newmom-
a/ s / L?
I'm a 47 year old unemployed electrician with male pattern baldness in Toms River NJ. You seem to know a lot about working out and politics. Is there an Arby's in your area where we could meet?
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Hey newmom-
a/ s / L?
I'm a 47 year old unemployed electrician with male pattern baldness in Toms River NJ. You seem to know a lot about working out and politics. Is there an Arby's in your area where we could meet?
GW - FUCKING STOP. FUCKING STOP NOW. I CAN BARELY TYPE. HA HA HA HA LOL LOL LOL ! ! !1 oH FUCK.
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oh here we go ;D Okay I'll play. Let me guess, you men want a say before a woman terminates a pregnancy?
If not the case, when you can push a bowling ball out of an opening of a tennis ball, or get sliced below your gut and give life then you can bitch ;D
NO NO NO, i want you to have to choice but if women get a choice to walk away from their child so should men
if its the womens choice then she and SHE ALONE(because its her choice alone) should be responsible for her actions...the man should only pay child support if he chooses to
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NO NO NO, i want you to have to choice but if women get a choice to walk away from their child so should men
if its the womens choice then she and SHE ALONE(because its her choice alone) should be responsible for her actions...the man should only pay child support if he chooses to
I get your point here with this .. and I agree
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I get your point here with this .. and I agree
:D ;)
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NO NO NO, i want you to have to choice but if women get a choice to walk away from their child so should men
if its the womens choice then she and SHE ALONE(because its her choice alone) should be responsible for her actions...the man should only pay child support if he chooses to
Never thought of that you are absolutely correct :D
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wow another post side stepping any questions and not disproving any ascertion by me...
WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT?????????
LMFAO
MORAN
;D :D ;)
First - why do you keep calling me "MORAN"
You're so fucking stupid you can't even spell your insults correctly
Second, you do this all the time. You make some, vague, often incomprehensible statement and then ask someone to disprove it. This tactic is just a variation of the argument from ignorance. If you want to make an assertion then PROVE it yourself.
btw - here's a little tip for you to keep for future reference.
Every time you type the word "logic" you should take that as a sign that you've just said something stupid
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NO NO NO, i want you to have to choice but if women get a choice to walk away from their child so should men
if its the womens choice then she and SHE ALONE(because its her choice alone) should be responsible for her actions...the man should only pay child support if he chooses to
You're all about making things "fair" so how are we going to offset the burden that women face from pregnancy and childbirth.
The discomfort, the hormonal changes, not being able to drink, the time off from work, the changes to their body, and the big one....the potential of death
Men don't have to deal with any of those issues.
Until we find a way that the woman can give the fetus to the man for him to carry to term then woman will always have the much larger burden and will have choices that men don't get
stop whining like a child and grow up
If you can't be responsible for your actions as an adult male then don't have sex
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First - why do you keep calling me "MORAN"
You're so fucking stupid you can't even spell your insults correctly
Second, you do this all the time. You make some, vague, often incomprehensible statement and then ask someone to disprove it. This tactic is just a variation of the argument from ignorance. If you want to make an assertion then PROVE it yourself.
btw - here's a little tip for you to keep for future reference.
Every time you type the word "logic" you should take that as a sign that you've just said something stupid
+ 1000000000
My personal favorite is when he "debates" in the form of a question to the other person, hoping they will make his own argument for him as he is incapable of it.
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First - why do you keep calling me "MORAN"
You're so fucking stupid you can't even spell your insults correctly
Second, you do this all the time. You make some, vague, often incomprehensible statement and then ask someone to disprove it. This tactic is just a variation of the argument from ignorance. If you want to make an assertion then PROVE it yourself.
btw - here's a little tip for you to keep for future reference.
Every time you type the word "logic" you should take that as a sign that you've just said something stupid
LOL its from some show, you have to ask hugo about it thats who i came across "moran" it is supposed to be spelled that way in reference to the way the person said it i think iono, ask huggy
LOL you cited a chart of ppl claiming if they are pro life or pro choice to state how nothing has really changed in regards to ppl wanting more or less regulation brain child
ppl can still be pro choice and want more regulation cant they? YES THEY CAN!!!!!!!
so simply b/c there hasnt been much change in the ppl that align themselves with pro choice or life doesnt mean there isnt a greater change in those ppl that want more regulation...
LOGIC... :D ;) ;D
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You're all about making things "fair" so how are we going to offset the burden that women face from pregnancy and childbirth.
The discomfort, the hormonal changes, not being able to drink, the time off from work, the changes to their body, and the big one....the potential of death
Men don't have to deal with any of those issues.
Until we find a way that the woman can give the fetus to the man for him to carry to term then woman will always have the much larger burden and will have choices that men don't get
stop whining like a child and grow up
If you can't be responsible for your actions as an adult male then don't have sex
actually if im not mistaken a man has already given birth, i expect you to start fighting for mens rights now ;)
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&rlz=1R2RNSN_enUS415&q=man+gives+birth&rlz=1R2RNSN_enUS415&aq=0&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=man+gives+&pbx=1&fp=2d73bcec2e6e3c54
2nd, 9 months gestation doesnt equal 18 YEARS child support
Id be fine with the man having to split medical costs while pregnant, but they should be given an equal choice as to walk away from THEIR CHILD like the WOMAN DOES...
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+ 1000000000
My personal favorite is when he "debates" in the form of a question to the other person, hoping they will make his own argument for him as he is incapable of it.
LOL i do this to let themselves show how foolish they are...
you ever notice how straw never answers any of my questions???
hahahahhahahah ever wonder why???
hahahahahaa ;)
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LOL its from some show, you have to ask hugo about it thats who i came across "moran" it is supposed to be spelled that way in reference to the way the person said it i think iono, ask huggy
LOL you cited a chart of ppl claiming if they are pro life or pro choice to state how nothing has really changed in regards to ppl wanting more or less regulation brain child
ppl can still be pro choice and want more regulation cant they? YES THEY CAN!!!!!!!
so simply b/c there hasnt been much change in the ppl that align themselves with pro choice or life doesnt mean there isnt a greater change in those ppl that want more regulation...
LOGIC... :D ;) ;D
I never mentioned "regulation" and neither did that graph
you were the first and only one to mention "regulation"
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actually if im not mistaken a man has already given birth, i expect you to start fighting for mens rights now ;)
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&rlz=1R2RNSN_enUS415&q=man+gives+birth&rlz=1R2RNSN_enUS415&aq=0&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=man+gives+&pbx=1&fp=2d73bcec2e6e3c54
2nd, 9 months gestation doesnt equal 18 YEARS child support
Id be fine with the man having to split medical costs while pregnant, but they should be given an equal choice as to walk away from THEIR CHILD like the WOMAN DOES...
that's not a man and you haven't addressed any of burdens/risks that I listed that woman deal with during pregnancy and child birth
how to we as a society make that fair to the woman?
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I never mentioned "regulation" and neither did that graph
you were the first and only one to mention "regulation"
--Measures modeled after a Nebraska law passed last year that outlaws abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy, based on the assertion that fetuses can feel pain after that point. That's a departure from the standards set by the Supreme Court decision Roe v Wade, which allow states to limit abortions when there's a viable chance the fetus could survive outside the womb, generally between 22 and 24 weeks.
--Bills requiring women to have an ultrasound prior to an abortion. Some versions would also require doctors to describe the ultrasound image of the fetus to the woman.
--Laws prohibiting abortion coverage in health insurance plans offered by the new state exchanges that are to commence in 2014 under President Obama's health care overhaul. Five states passed such measures last year; more may follow suit.
sorry i figured youd be smart enough to make the jump from bills and laws to regulations ::)
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that's not a man and you haven't addressed any of burdens/risks that I listed that woman deal with during pregnancy and child birth
how to we as a society make that fair to the woman?
First of he has no say of whether she goes through those risks or not, So why should he have to do anything?
but I did suggest something about splitting the costs, right now the man isnt responsible for any of the costs during pregnancy that i know of...it could take monetary form while pregnant but would stop after pregnancy since it was her sole choice to give birth
how do you suggest we make fair any of the burdens/risks that the man takes on after child birth?
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The only thing that graph shows is American's overall position on abortion and the question is written as follows:
"With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life"
That's it
You're the one who introduced the idea that people who are pro-choice could also want "more regulution" (and never bothered to provide any detail as to what regulartion or any support for your statement)
then you asked me to disprove your vague assumption by writing:
LMAO you disagree?
tell me what part im wrong about?
you think every person who labels themselves pro choice is against any sort of restrictions to abortion?
::) ::) ::)
MORAN!!!!! ;D
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The only thing that graph shows is American's overall position on abortion and the question is written as follows:
"With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life"
That's it
You're the one who introduced the idea that people who are pro-choice could also want "more regulution" (and never bothered to provide any detail as to what regulartion or any support for your statement)
then you asked me to disprove your vague assumption by writing:
THE IDEA OF THE ARTICLE WAS THAT PPLS VIEWS ON STRICTER RESTRICTION OF ABORTIONS HAVE CHANGED
so why did you post that graph straw? LMAO
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First of he has no say of whether she goes through those risks or not, So why should he have to do anything?
but I did suggest something about splitting the costs, right now the man isnt responsible for any of the costs during pregnancy that i know of...it could take monetary form while pregnant but would stop after pregnancy since it was her sole choice to give birth
how do you suggest we make fair any of the burdens/risks that the man takes on after child birth?
I never even mentioned the monetary cost
I mentioned things that every woman will deal with or might face (i.e. death) when she get's pregnant
you're all about fairness right
you believe the current laws in this country are "unfair" to men
I'm asking you how you're going to even out the unfairness that women face when they are pregnant
It is an undeniable fact that women have a much larger burden/risk during pregnancy and childbirth
How many men have died during child birth?
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LOL i do this to let themselves show how foolish they are...
you ever notice how straw never answers any of my questions???
hahahahhahahah ever wonder why???
hahahahahaa ;)
I've already explained in detail
Sadly, you're just too fucking stupid to understand it
I'll say it again
If you have a point or an assertion to make then PROVE your point
don't ask someone to disprove it
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I never even mentioned the monetary cost
I mentioned things that every woman will deal with or might face (i.e. death) when she get's pregnant
you're all about fairness right
you believe the current laws in this country are "unfair" to men
I'm asking you how you're going to even out the unfairness that women face when they are pregnant
It is an undeniable fact that women have a much larger burden/risk during pregnancy and childbirth
How many men have died during child birth?
LOL you drunk?
I mentioned monetary costs b/c that is a possible way to even out the "unfairness" you see...
again how can it be unfair if the guy has no say as to what the female does? its her choice not his...
but like i said paying for half of the costs would be a way to compensate her for that or a lump sum.
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I've already explained in detail
Sadly, you're just too fucking stupid to understand it
I'll say it again
If you have a point or an assertion to make then PROVE your point
don't ask someone to disprove it
OMG never fucking mind you dip shit
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THE IDEA OF THE ARTICLE WAS THAT PPLS VIEWS ON STRICTER RESTRICTION OF ABORTIONS HAVE CHANGED
so why did you post that graph straw? LMAO
these are the kind of questions you ask that make me think you might be kind of dumb
I was agreeing with Bum that there doesn't appear to be much of a changing trend (I added since ~ 1998) as the graph of the answer to a very basic question clearly shows
do you really not understand what
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these are the kind of questions you ask that make me think you might be kind of dumb
I was agreeing with Bum that there doesn't appear to be much of a changing trend (I added since ~ 1998) as the graph of the answer to a very basic question clearly shows
do you really not understand what
LOL exactly but you see THEY TREND IN YOUR GRAPH was whether they considered themselves pro choice or pro life
the article and beaches post was about how they felt in regards stricter legislation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/b]
NOT THEIR STANCE ON BEING PRO CHOICE OR PRO LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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LOL exactly but you see THEY TREND IN YOUR GRAPH was whether they considered themselves pro choice or pro life
the article and beaches post was about how they felt in regards stricter legislation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/b]
NOT THEIR STANCE ON BEING PRO CHOICE OR PRO LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why the caps and bold ?
are you angry?
frustrated?
try to calm down and pay attention
I was responding to Bums statement that he wasnt' sure there was much of a changing trend
I provide a graph to show that pro-choice vs pro-life percentages hadn't really changed much since 1998
You are the one who introduced the anti-intuitive assertion that people who are pro-choice might also be for more regulation (i.e. less choice). You provided no proof to support your claim and there is nothing in the article to support your claim.
the only portion of the article that addresses the views of a segment of the pro-choice group does not in any way support your claim and in fact shows the opposite....that they are pushing back against legislation that encrouches on their position
Abortion-rights supporters are nonetheless dismayed by their foes' clout in the House, though these measures might fail to clear the Senate, and would likely face a presidential veto if they did advance.
"We're taking all these threats very seriously," said Planned Parenthood public policy analyst Emily Stewart. "It's a crazy time, with a lot of stuff up in the air."
So.....we're left with your claim, for which you provided no evidence to support, and which makes no sense ( you never explained why pro-choice people would want less choice) and is actually contrary to the response from statement by pro-choice groups in the article......and you've asked me to essentially prove you're wrong
I can't really make this any more clear for you
if you want to make a claim then the burden of proof is on you to support your claim
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LOL you drunk?
I mentioned monetary costs b/c that is a possible way to even out the "unfairness" you see...
again how can it be unfair if the guy has no say as to what the female does? its her choice not his...
but like i said paying for half of the costs would be a way to compensate her for that or a lump sum.
I didn't mention it because it's the simplest of the issues to even out
both parties need share equal financial responsiblity and that's pretty easy to figure out
Now how are you going to even out all the other issues I mentioned
your entire argument is about fairness right
here's the list again -tell me how you are going to make this fair for the woman
You're all about making things "fair" so how are we going to offset the burden that women face from pregnancy and childbirth.
The discomfort, the hormonal changes, not being able to drink, the time off from work, the changes to their body, and the big one....the potential of death
Men don't have to deal with any of those issues.
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You're all about making things "fair" so how are we going to offset the burden that women face from pregnancy and childbirth.
The discomfort, the hormonal changes, not being able to drink, the time off from work, the changes to their body, and the big one....the potential of death
Men don't have to deal with any of those issues.
Until we find a way that the woman can give the fetus to the man for him to carry to term then woman will always have the much larger burden and will have choices that men don't get
stop whining like a child and grow up
If you can't be responsible for your actions as an adult male then don't have sex
why can't we hold women to the same standard? we don't. we allow them a way out. abortion. there is no out for men. that's his point.......that you keep missing.
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You're all about making things "fair" so how are we going to offset the burden that women face from pregnancy and childbirth.
The discomfort, the hormonal changes, not being able to drink, the time off from work, the changes to their body, and the big one....the potential of death
Men don't have to deal with any of those issues.
Until we find a way that the woman can give the fetus to the man for him to carry to term then woman will always have the much larger burden and will have choices that men don't get
stop whining like a child and grow up
If you can't be responsible for your actions as an adult male then don't have sex
by the way. thats called abstinence. which i assume you ridicule as stupid and unrealistic.
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by the way. thats called abstinence. which i assume you ridicule as stupid and unrealistic.
QFT
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by the way. thats called abstinence. which i assume you ridicule as stupid and unrealistic.
I don't ridicule it as a personal choice
I do riducule is as the sole source of sex education/birth control education for teenagers
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why can't we hold women to the same standard? we don't. we allow them a way out. abortion. there is no out for men. that's his point.......that you keep missing.
and the point you both seem to keep missing is that they have an much larger burden than the man ....up to and including potential death
larger burden on their part = choices that the man doesn't get
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and the point you both seem to keep missing is that they have an much larger burden than the man ....up to and including potential death
larger burden on their part = choices that the man doesn't get
yes there is a danger to the mother at childbirth. in this day and age a very very very manageable and preventable one. don't give me that shit. how many women died during childbirth last year? i believe the rate is about .00013 per 100,000 births this year.
and when you have 2 parents raising children, they both have a large burden. my wife has a large burden. i have a large burden. I work my ass off to be a good father. It's not easy. But it's worth all of it and then some. YOU ain't going to tell ME that my wife carries a bigger burden then me. And you best believe that i get a say in ALL of the decisions regarding my kids, and that starts at conception. Funny thing is is that you are not a father. You're just some feminized lib who believes that being a mother is harder than being a father because thats what the women on TV tell you every day. Fuck you and fuck them too.
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Ha ha ha.
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Hey newmom-
a/ s / L?
I'm a 47 year old unemployed electrician with male pattern baldness in Toms River NJ. You seem to know a lot about working out and politics. Is there an Arby's in your area where we could meet?
Brings back the days eh George? ;D
55/F/Newark
I'd rather go to popeyes or White Castle for some belly bombers
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NO NO NO, i want you to have to choice but if women get a choice to walk away from their child so should men
if its the womens choice then she and SHE ALONE(because its her choice alone) should be responsible for her actions...the man should only pay child support if he chooses to
Okay let me see if I'm grasping at straws or something. So let's say, she wants to keep the child but the man says to terminate he should be off the hook?
Please tell me I'm misunderstanding this
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yes there is a danger to the mother at childbirth. in this day and age a very very very manageable and preventable one. don't give me that shit. how many women died during childbirth last year? i believe the rate is about .00013 per 100,000 births this year.
and when you have 2 parents raising children, they both have a large burden. my wife has a large burden. i have a large burden. I work my ass off to be a good father. It's not easy. But it's worth all of it and then some. YOU ain't going to tell ME that my wife carries a bigger burden then me. And you best believe that i get a say in ALL of the decisions regarding my kids, and that starts at conception. Funny thing is is that you are not a father. You're just some feminized lib who believes that being a mother is harder than being a father because thats what the women on TV tell you every day. Fuck you and fuck them too.
we're not talking about parenting
we're talking about pregnancy and childbirth
pregnancy and childbirth is a MUCH bigger burden for the woman than the man
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yes there is a danger to the mother at childbirth. in this day and age a very very very manageable and preventable one. don't give me that shit. how many women died during childbirth last year? i believe the rate is about .00013 per 100,000 births this year.
and when you have 2 parents raising children, they both have a large burden. my wife has a large burden. i have a large burden. I work my ass off to be a good father. It's not easy. But it's worth all of it and then some. YOU ain't going to tell ME that my wife carries a bigger burden then me. And you best believe that i get a say in ALL of the decisions regarding my kids, and that starts at conception. Funny thing is is that you are not a father. You're just some feminized lib who believes that being a mother is harder than being a father because thats what the women on TV tell you every day. Fuck you and fuck them too.
You speak the truth bears. :)
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You speak the truth bears. :)
which part
this is not a thread about parenting
It's about abortion
As you pointed out in your first post there doesn't seem to be any significant change the % of people who are pro choice vs those who are anti abortion (I prefer that term as it's much more accurate than "pro-life" without the obvious pejorative overtones)
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bears,
Great post and I agree as long as BOTH parents live in the same househould. But if a single mother or father has full custody then the burden shifts way more on the parent with sole custody. Not to dimenish the parent that has visitation or the alike but the burden does weigh more heavy on the custodial parent. I do believe Straw meant childbirth.
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Okay let me see if I'm grasping at straws or something. So let's say, she wants to keep the child but the man says to terminate he should be off the hook?
Please tell me I'm misunderstanding this
yup or he should pay some lump sum not a % of his pay check...
the women has the right to terminate his child right now without his say doesnt she?(rhetorical question so straw doesnt think im asking you to prove my argument)
we give women the right to walk away from the child but not the man
we could make it were the man had to split bills while she was pregnant but after that it was HER CHOICE ALONE to do so and SHE ALONE if the man chooses to "abort" the child should not be held responsible
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bears,
Great post and I agree as long as BOTH parents live in the same househould. But if a single mother or father has full custody then the burden shifts way more on the parent with sole custody. Not to dimenish the parent that has visitation or the alike but the burden does weigh more heavy on the custodial parent. I do believe Straw meant childbirth.
thats the only thing I've been talking about and the only point of my post was to refute the ridiculous view that Tony holds that the woman has some unfair advantage over men.
If you're a responsible adult man (or a woman) then you know the rules before you start playing the game
if you don't like the rules then don't play the game
when the day comes when the woman can give the fetus to the man for him to carry and deliver then we can change the rules
until that time the woman will always have the larger burden in pregnancy than the man and will have the option of getting an abortion
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yup or he should pay some lump sum not a % of his pay check...
the women has the right to terminate his child right now without his say doesnt she?(rhetorical question so straw doesnt think im asking you to prove my argument)
we give women the right to walk away from the child but not the man
we could make it were the man had to split bills while she was pregnant but after that it was HER CHOICE ALONE to do so and SHE ALONE if the man chooses to "abort" the child should not be held responsible
honestly, I think the woman should inform the father. If they can't agree on what to do, then he gets to walk away free. LOVELY...Also, if an abortion is to be done, I think both parents should be made to sign something that says that. How someone can walk away from a child is beyond my relm of comprehension.
She didn't open her legs and knock herself up. Just because a man doesn't want a child but if you play and weren't taking precautions, then both should be responsible if one or both want to keep the child.
I don't agree with the lump sum thing. But that's your opinion and appreciate it
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yup or he should pay some lump sum not a % of his pay check...
the women has the right to terminate his child right now without his say doesnt she?(rhetorical question so straw doesnt think im asking you to prove my argument)
we give women the right to walk away from the child but not the man
we could make it were the man had to split bills while she was pregnant but after that it was HER CHOICE ALONE to do so and SHE ALONE if the man chooses to "abort" the child should not be held responsible
we give the woman the right to walk away for BOTH of them
it's not like she can walk away (have an abortion) and he is still on the line
maybe if the woman doesn't want to be pregant she can just give the fertilized egg to the man and he can do whatever he wants with it
that would be fair don't you think?
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A friend of mine really didn't want a child but the father sure as hell did. She kept it and turned over the child right at birth. Never saw the child again not even after delivery She pays the father monthly because she believes that is the fair thing to do and they never once went to court. She was on birth control as well.
I think it most cases people will act like responsible adults and be guided by their own values on how to handle this type of situation
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A friend of mine really didn't want a child but the father sure as hell did. She kept it and turned over the child right at birth. Never saw the child again not even after delivery She pays the father monthly because she believes that is the fair thing to do and they never once went to court. She was on birth control as well.
as do I but then again i also think the right thing to do if you get pregnant and your health isnt at risk is to have the child.
as of right now the rights arent equal, She made the decision to have the baby, not him SHE DID
if she had decided to not have the baby, what would the father have gotten? SHAFT
and if she wants the baby and he doesnt...SHAFT
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I think it most cases people will act like responsible adults and be guided by their own values on how to handle this type of situation
I'm not sure about that
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we give the woman the right to walk away for BOTH of them
it's not like she can walk away (have an abortion) and he is still on the line
maybe if the woman doesn't want to be pregant she can just give the fertilized egg to the man and he can do whatever he wants with it
that would be fair don't you think?
LOL would you make the woman pay child support?
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thats the only thing I've been talking about and the only point of my post was to refute the ridiculous view that Tony holds that the woman has some unfair advantage over men.
If you're a responsible adult man (or a woman) then you know the rules before you start playing the game
if you don't like the rules then don't play the game
when the day comes when the woman can give the fetus to the man for him to carry and deliver then we can change the rules
until that time the woman will always have the larger burden in pregnancy than the man and will have the option of getting an abortion
LOL sorry bro 9 months gestation doesnt equal 18 years of child support payments ::)
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as do I but then again i also think the right thing to do if you get pregnant and your health isnt at risk is to have the child.
as of right now the rights arent equal, She made the decision to have the baby, not him SHE DID
if she had decided to not have the baby, what would the father have gotten? SHAFT
and if she wants the baby and he doesnt...SHAFT
Okay. Like I said before, I firmly (didn't say firmly earlier) believe should sign some sort of document should be signed both acknowledging terminating the unborn fetus. If she doesn't want shit from him then don't put his name on the birth certificate. So if both parties don't want the child but the mother is on birth control, they should have put the child up for adoption?. You do know how many kids are in the system at the present time.
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Okay. Like I said before, I firmly (didn't say firmly earlier) believe should sign some sort of document should be signed both acknowledging terminating the unborn fetus. If she doesn't want shit from him then don't put his name on the birth certificate. So if both parties don't want the child but the mother is on birth control, they should have put the child up for adoption?. You do know how many kids are in the system at the present time.
sorry mom but modern contraception is 99.999% effective and the VAST VAST MAJORITY of abortions are elective and not for health purposes...
meaning that of those elective abortions in the US 99.999% were preventable...
this makes your scenario very very obscure
I agree with you though on the number of kids within the system and if im ever in a place financially to afford it i will certainly adopt
but that fact doesnt validate the unfairness in the systme mom
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im not for making women have children, what i am for is giving men more rights within the system without infringing on the womens rights
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LOL would you make the woman pay child support?
I know women who pay alimony and child support
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as do I but then again i also think the right thing to do if you get pregnant and your health isnt at risk is to have the child.
as of right now the rights arent equal, She made the decision to have the baby, not him SHE DID
if she had decided to not have the baby, what would the father have gotten? SHAFT
and if she wants the baby and he doesnt...SHAFT
and when she's pregnant their situation isn't equal either
I think I might have pointed that out one or two time already
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I know women who pay alimony and child support
i know men that do as well, whats your point?
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and when she's pregnant their situation isn't equal either
I think I might have pointed that out one or two time already
Which i agree with, WHICH IS ALSO WHY i said to support her during the pregnancy...
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Hey Tony,
You'll be happy to know there is no shortage of deadbeat dads in this country
This guy has nine kids and I'm guessing the taxpayers have probably helped to pay to raise them which I'm sure makes you very happy
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Which i agree with, WHICH IS ALSO WHY i said to support her during the pregnancy...
and after pregancy you and I and the rest of the tax payers can support the kid while the "dad" goes out and helps create 8 more
sounds good comrade
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and after pregancy you and I and the rest of the tax payers can support the kid while the "dad" goes out and helps create 8 more
sounds good comrade
HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHHAHAHHAHHAHHHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
youre really living up to your name strawman...
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i know men that do as well, whats your point?
my point ?
you asked me the question
remember ?
LOL would you make the woman pay child support?
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HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHHAHAHHAHHAHHHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
youre really living up to your name strawman...
I guess from your laughter you're telling us you're fine with the taxpayer paying to raise the children of deadbeat dads
great plan you got there
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I guess from your laughter you're telling us you're fine with the taxpayer paying to raise the children of deadbeat dads
great plan you got there
yes straw thats all a part of my master plan ;D :P
id like everyone to take responsibility for their children men AND WOMEN!!!
but just b/c some guys choose not to take care of their children DOESNT NEGATE THE UNFAIRNESS or JUSTIFY IT
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yes straw thats all a part of my master plan ;D :P
id like everyone to take responsibility for their children men AND WOMEN!!!
but just b/c some guys choose not to take care of their children DOESNT NEGATE THE UNFAIRNESS or JUSTIFY IT
really ?
so let's just say crack head Ted never really wanted those 9 kids he fathered
he's just a poor victim of his hornyness
he shouldn't have to pay to support his kids
the rest of us should have to pay instead
that's much more fair
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really ?
so let's just say crack head Ted never really wanted those 9 kids he fathered
he's just a poor victim of his hornyness
he shouldn't have to pay to support his kids
the rest of us should have to pay instead
that's much more fair
again strawman argument
no he should have to pay for his children and thats the way it is, thats why we have courts to force ppl to pay...
lol and what of the potential fathers that wanted children that were denied by the mothers who had abortions?
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again strawman argument
no he should have to pay for his children and thats the way it is, thats why we have courts to force ppl to pay...
lol and what of the potential fathers that wanted children that were denied by the mothers who had abortions?
make up your mind
LOL sorry bro 9 months gestation doesnt equal 18 years of child support payments ::)
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make up your mind
LOL bro goodness gracious I feel he should have to pay for his children I also feel that if a women is pregnant she should have to have the child unless its for medical reasons...
but if youre going to allow the mother the opportunity to walk away you should logically give the man a chance to walk away...
did you notice the question under that first statement you quoted?
it alluded to that point there buddy ;)
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Wait a second.
Is relentless socialist Strawgirl arguing that the best way to prevent poor, uneducated slobs from increasing the national debt and draining this country's budget, is to prevent them from reproducing in the first place?
Gee whiz-- instead of killing the baby, why not simply shoot all poor people so they can't reproduce?
But then a thought emerges-- The democratic party would become obsolete over night. So, for Dems the next best thing is to promote abortion. That way they can cut the legs off of organized religion and claim they are fighting for reproductive rights as well. Pretty ingenuous. However, it is organized religion that preaches abstinence in the first place; seemingly there is a catch 22.
But... we are talking about liberals here. Contradictions are a source of their strength and ideology.
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LOL bro goodness gracious I feel he should have to pay for his children I also feel that if a women is pregnant she should have to have the child unless its for medical reasons...
but if youre going to allow the mother the opportunity to walk away you should logically give the man a chance to walk away...
did you notice the question under that first statement you quoted?
it alluded to that point there buddy ;)
was does "walk away" mean to you in terms of the Dad and in terms of the Mother
do you mean the same thing in both cases?
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Wait a second.
Is relentless socialist Strawgirl arguing that the best way to prevent poor, uneducated slobs from increasing the national debt and draining this country's budget, is to prevent them from reproducing in the first place?
Gee whiz-- instead of killing the baby, why not simply shoot all poor people so they can't reproduce?
But then a thought emerges-- The democratic party would become obsolete over night. So, for Dems the next best thing is to promote abortion. That way they can cut the legs off of organized religion and claim they are fighting for reproductive rights as well. Pretty ingenuous. However, it is organized religion that preaches abstinence in the first place; seemingly there is a catch 22.
But... we are talking about liberals here. Contradictions are a source of their strength and ideology.
of course not but given that you're a moron it's not suprising you would think so
I'll make it so easy that even you can understand it
I'm for leaving things exactly the way they are right now
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was does "walk away" mean to you in terms of the Dad and in terms of the Mother
do you mean the same thing in both cases?
goodness gracious bro weve gone over this to many times to count
the mother aborts the child
seeing as men cannot physically abort the child, they should be given a equal option...as in doing away with any financial obligation to the child in return for giving up any legal right to that child
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of course not but given that you're a moron it's not suprising you would think so
I'll make it so easy that even you can understand it
I'm for leaving things exactly the way they are right now
only a moron would think that i am for dead beat dads
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of course not but given that you're a moron it's not suprising you would think so
I'll make it so easy that even you can understand it
I'm for leaving things exactly the way they are right now
So killing the babies of poor uneducated slobs is preferable to prevent them from reproducing? How about sterility for all non whites earning less than 45k per year? That seems like something you would support.
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only a moron would think that i am for dead beat dads
fine then let's button this up
In spite of what you've written below I know you're going to tell me you're not in favor of forcing women to give birth if they don't want the child
correct?
LOL bro goodness gracious I feel he should have to pay for his children I also feel that if a women is pregnant she should have to have the child unless its for medical reasons...but if youre going to allow the mother the opportunity to walk away you should logically give the man a chance to walk away...
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again strawman argument
no he should have to pay for his children and thats the way it is, thats why we have courts to force ppl to pay...
lol and what of the potential fathers that wanted children that were denied by the mothers who had abortions?
So you are basically saying that only selective fathers can have the right to walk from the obligation and responsibility to pay for their children, but not Crackhead Ted?
On what basis is this founded and considered a balanced measure of who can and can't have this option extended to them under your scenario?
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So killing the babies of poor uneducated slobs is preferable to prevent them from reproducing? How about sterility for all non whites earning less than 45k per year? That seems like something you would support.
when did I mention anything about killing babies or people who are poor or uneducated?
when did I mention sterility
when did I mention anyones race?
I said I was fine with the way things are right now
what part of that don't you understand?
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fine then let's button this up
In spite of what you've written below I know you're going to tell me you're not in favor of forcing women to give birth if they don't want the child
correct?
ok lets straighten this out for your ignorant ass
i personally feel that you shouldnt have an abortion if its not for medical reasons, i personally feel that you should take care of your children man or woman...
I dont feel comfortable putting MY PERSONAL beliefs on you or someone else for that matter.
my personal beliefs have nothing to do with the unfairness in the system b/c im not putting those beliefs into my opinions of the system...
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how bout them cowboys ;D
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So you are basically saying that only selective fathers can have the right to walk from the obligation and responsibility to pay for their children, but not Crackhead Ted?
On what basis is this founded and considered a balanced measure of who can and can't have this option extended to them under your scenario?
no, im saying if the mother has the right to walk away so should the father
read my above post in regards to straw and your misunderstandings...
we are being selective right now on who can and cant walk away...
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ok lets straighten this out for your ignorant ass
i personally feel that you shouldnt have an abortion if its not for medical reasons, i personally feel that you should take care of your children man or woman...
I dont feel comfortable putting MY PERSONAL beliefs on you or someone else for that matter.
my personal beliefs have nothing to do with the unfairness in the system b/c im not putting those beliefs into my opinions of the system...
yes, we know your personal views on abortion already
you're against it
Isn't the fact that it's legal and at the discretion of the woman the premise for your belief that the man is being treated unfairly?
im not for making women have children, what i am for is giving men more rights within the system without infringing on the womens rights
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we're not talking about parenting
we're talking about pregnancy and childbirth
pregnancy and childbirth is a MUCH bigger burden for the woman than the man
OK yes i guess you're right. Labor is harder for them. But you think that because the actual hour of labor is harder on my wife I should have no say in anything that has to do with MY child? I should just shut the fuck up and pay for everything and thank her for letting me be a part of her and her child's life? This is seriously like arguing with my old psycho girlfriend in college. This shit that you are saying makes sense to you? Do you have any opinions of your own or do you just refer to Rachel Maddow for any and all questions on life?
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OK yes i guess you're right. Labor is harder for them. But you think that because the actual hour of labor is harder on my wife I should have no say in anything that has to do with MY child? I should just shut the fuck up and pay for everything and thank her for letting me be a part of her and her child's life? This is seriously like arguing with my old psycho girlfriend in college. This shit that you are saying makes sense to you? Do you have any opinions of your own or do you just refer to Rachel Maddow for any and all questions on life?
btw - pregnancy is more than just an hour of labor
All I've done is advocate for exactly the ways things are right now
you do see that right?
I dont' get the feeling you're the kind of person who would be careless enough to get someone pregant or irresponsible enough not to take care of his own kid if he did
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btw - pregnancy is more than just an hour of labor
All I've done is advocate for exactly the ways things are right now
you do see that right?
I dont' get the feeling you're the kind of person who would be careless enough to get someone pregant or irresponsible enough not to take care of his own kid if he did
i see your point. I just vehemently disagree with just about everything you have to say on abortion. And i'm just being a dick cuz i'm having a long day. I apologize.
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i see your point. I just vehemently disagree with just about everything you have to say on abortion. And i'm just being a dick cuz i'm having a long day. I apologize.
dude - no need to apologize and I don't think you're being a dick at all
I'm pro choice and I presume you're not
no big deal
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yes, we know your personal views on abortion already
you're against it
Isn't the fact that it's legal and at the discretion of the woman the premise for your belief that the man is being treated unfairly?
are you asking me to prove your argument? ;)
you know the answer to that question
if you already know my personal beliefs then why ask me about them and continue to bring them into this discussion?
try to stay on topic bro
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btw - pregnancy is more than just an hour of labor
All I've done is advocate for exactly the ways things are right now
you do see that right?
I dont' get the feeling you're the kind of person who would be careless enough to get someone pregant or irresponsible enough not to take care of his own kid if he did
the point is he doesnt HAVE THE CHOICE if she chooses not to let him
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the point is he doesnt HAVE THE CHOICE if she chooses not to let him
yes - we know that already
isn't that the source of the "unfairness" that you perceive in the current system?
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yes - we know that already
isn't that the source of the "unfairness" that you perceive in the current system?
again are you trying to get me to prove your arguement? LOL thats what i get accused of when i ask you questions...
after all the times weve argued this you still have to ask that question straw?
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again are you trying to get me to prove your arguement? LOL thats what i get accused of when i ask you questions...
after all the times weve argued this you still have to ask that question straw?
I'm not making an argument
you're the one who introduced the concept that the current system is unfair to men
I'm trying to get you to explain what your solution would be to the "unfairness" that you see
I thought you wanted to let fathers off the hook for supporting their kids but I think you said you're not in favor of that so what's left?
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I'm not making an argument
you're the one who introduced the concept that the current system is unfair to men
I'm trying to get you to explain what your solution would be to the "unfairness" that you see
I thought you wanted to let fathers off the hook for supporting their kids but I think you said you're not in favor of that so what's left?
we let women off the hook for supporting their kids, dont we?
there are a number of different solutions and yes letting the men sign over their legal rights in return for not being financially responsible is one...that doesnt mean im in favor of dead beat dads you fuking moron ::)
thats like saying being pro choice is being for ppl getting abortions...DUMB ASS
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dude - no need to apologize and I don't think you're being a dick at all
I'm pro choice and I presume you're not
no big deal
cool. i'm not necessarily anti abortion. i'm just anti - they allow abortion now so who gives a fuck about personal responsibility. I also hate the fact that, in my opinion, too many leftist pro choice people view pregnancy as something that happened TO a girl, and not something she chose to do.
I am a firm believer in personal reponsibility. I feel that if a man or woman is doing adult things like sex, it comes with adult responsibilities. And I do believe that late term abortion is murder. period. i've seen my boys when they were 20 weeks old. They were human beings. plain and simple. And I can't overlook that because abortion makes shit easy for people.
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i see your point. I just vehemently disagree with just about everything you have to say on abortion. And i'm just being a dick cuz i'm having a long day. I apologize.
I am a firm believer in personal reponsibility. I feel that if a man or woman is doing adult things like sex, it comes with adult responsibilities. And I do believe that late term abortion is murder. period. i've seen my boys when they were 20 weeks old. They were human beings. plain and simple. And I can't overlook that because abortion makes shit easy for people.
I believe after 12 weeks, no abortion should be allowed (exception could be health of mother).
I don't think you're being a dick at all. You have strong views on the matter.
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Straw= thinks men can become pregnant if they have enough gay sex- ala the mid nineties movie "Junior" staring Arnold Schwarzenegger .
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Straw= thinks men can become pregnant if they have enough gay sex- ala the mid nineties movie "Junior" staring Arnold Schwarzenegger .
hey squawkbox be nice
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And if I'm not will you be rough with me? If so be careful. My chest and armpit hair is like a brillo pad. :-X
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And if I'm not will you be rough with me? If so be careful. My chest and armpit hair is like a brillo pad. :-X
Mine too ;D
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Friggin awesome. We can take turns scrubbing the pots and pans with our body hair. ;D
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Friggin awesome. We can take turns scrubbing the pots and pans with our body hair. ;D
LMAO, idiot ;D
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no, im saying if the mother has the right to walk away so should the father
read my above post in regards to straw and your misunderstandings...
we are being selective right now on who can and cant walk away...
Yet, in the previous post of yours that I quoted, you said the opposite. That Crackhead Ted shouldn't be allowed to walk away. You want men to have the right to sign over all parental rights but yet you expect Crackhead Ted to support his nine kids. What if he says I don't want to be father. Bye. Then what? By your own basis he should be allowed to walk away to the next baby making machine he meets.
You can't engage in a debate when you are constantly contradicting yourself.
Watching you run in circles pretty much tells the rest of us you have no argument or no way to at least articulate it a way that isn't counter productive to your own viewpoint you are trying to express.
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ok lets straighten this out for your ignorant ass
i personally feel that you shouldnt have an abortion if its not for medical reasons, i personally feel that you should take care of your children man or woman...
I dont feel comfortable putting MY PERSONAL beliefs on you or someone else for that matter.
my personal beliefs have nothing to do with the unfairness in the system b/c im not putting those beliefs into my opinions of the system...
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the problem is you've previously stated that if women have the right to "walk away" ( I presume this means the right to have an abortion) then men should get something you consider to be equivalent.
Do you believe this or not?
The reason I ask is because you've said it or alluded to a few times on this thread and many times on previousl threads about abortion:
yup or he should pay some lump sum not a % of his pay check...
the women has the right to terminate his child right now without his say doesnt she?(rhetorical question so straw doesnt think im asking you to prove my argument)
we give women the right to walk away from the child but not the man
we could make it were the man had to split bills while she was pregnant but after that it was HER CHOICE ALONE to do so and SHE ALONE if the man chooses to "abort" the child should not be held responsible
as do I but then again i also think the right thing to do if you get pregnant and your health isnt at risk is to have the child.
as of right now the rights arent equal, She made the decision to have the baby, not him SHE DID
if she had decided to not have the baby, what would the father have gotten? SHAFT
and if she wants the baby and he doesnt...SHAFT
LOL sorry bro 9 months gestation doesnt equal 18 years of child support payments ::)
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the problem is you've previously stated that if women have the right to "walk away" ( I presume this means the right to have an abortion) then men should get something you consider to be equivalent.
Do you believe this or not?
The reason I ask is because you've said it or alluded to a few times on this thread and many times on previousl threads about abortion:
seriously are you asking me that again?
look woman can walk away, man cant...its that simple
either both get the chance to walk away or nobody does...pretty simple
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seriously are you asking me that again?
look woman can walk away, man cant...its that simple
either both get the chance to walk away or nobody does...pretty simple
yes we get it but when we ask how you would actually implement your last sentence you've done nothing but contradict yourself
how would you implement your plan in the real world
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yes we get it but when we ask how you would actually implement your last sentence you've done nothing but contradict yourself
how would you implement your plan in the real world
LOL no i really havent...
so if she has the ability to have an abortion of soley her choice, he has the ability to sign over legal rights in return for no financial responsibility...
if she is meant to keep the child then he is meant to be financially responsible for it
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I don't want to butt in .. but I am not understanding where it's right to make some guy be a father .. I think it's totally unfair that a female can get knocked up and choose to have an abortion no matter if the father wants the baby .. "it's her body .. blah blah "
Why is it acceptable then that a man is not given that same opportunity ? .. it should be equal .. women fought for "equal" rights
If the pregnancy is already there ... why does ANY woman think that ANY man would be a father of any sort when he's made it clear he doesn't want anything to do with it ? .. if she wants the baby .. pay for it herself .. get a job .. and he's erased from the whole thing forever
who would want their child getting money from and or visits from some guy who was against having it ?
that's just asking for unnecessary grief and possibly future issues with the child .. sure grow up and know Dad didn't want you and was MADE to pay for your dentist bills .. he hated having to take you to the park but HAD to visit every week .. no friggin way would I want that for any child to deal with
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LOL no i really havent...
so if she has the ability to have an abortion of soley her choice, he has the ability to sign over legal rights in return for no financial responsibility...
if she is meant to keep the child then he is meant to be financially responsible for it
I think part of the problem is your poor writing skills
who says "if she is meant to keep the child then he is meant to be to be financially responsible for it"
let's review two potential scenarios and assume they are all happening now within our current legal system:
Scenario #1: A woman get's pregnant and doesn't want to have a child so she get's an abortion thus neither person has any ongoing obligation
Secnario #2: A woman get's pregnant and, like yourself, is opposed to abortion so has the child and let's say in this example the man does not want the child. Should he be financially responsible for the child or not?
from reading your prior posts I would have to assume your answer to scenario #2 would be both YES and NO
which one is it ?
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I think part of the problem is your poor writing skills
who says "if she is meant to keep the child then he is meant to be to be financially responsible for it"
let's review two potential scenarios and assume they are all happening now within our current legal system:
Scenario #1: A woman get's pregnant and doesn't want to have a child so she get's an abortion thus neither person has any ongoing obligation
Secnario #2: A woman get's pregnant and, like yourself, is opposed to abortion so has the child and let's say in this example the man does not want the child. Should he be financially responsible for the child or not?
lol sorry im sick and a tad loopy from the night time tylenol...
to answer your question to #2 it depends on whether she had the choice to have an abortion or not
if yes she did have the choice, then the man should also have the choice
if no then, no
i think youre getting confused b/c youre taking post out of context. I feel that men should take care of their children forcefully if needed, I also feel women should take care of their children forcefully if needed.
but if you give one the opportunity to walk away you logically in fairness need to give the other the opportunity to walk away
you dont get to have it both ways
notice w8m8 quote "women fought for equal rights"?
from reading your prior posts I would have to assume your answer to scenario #2 would be both YES and NO
which one is it ?
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I don't want to butt in .. but I am not understanding where it's right to make some guy be a father .. I think it's totally unfair that a female can get knocked up and choose to have an abortion no matter if the father wants the baby .. "it's her body .. blah blah "
Why is it acceptable then that a man is not given that same opportunity ? .. it should be equal .. women fought for "equal" rights
If the pregnancy is already there ... why does ANY woman think that ANY man would be a father of any sort when he's made it clear he doesn't want anything to do with it ? .. if she wants the baby .. pay for it herself .. get a job .. and he's erased from the whole thing forever
who would want their child getting money from and or visits from some guy who was against having it ?
that's just asking for unnecessary grief and possibly future issues with the child .. sure grow up and know Dad didn't want you and was MADE to pay for your dentist bills .. he hated having to take you to the park but HAD to visit every week .. no friggin way would I want that for any child to deal with
the only problem is that reality is not equal and there is no way to make it equal (at least not one we've found yet)
it is the womans body and she is the one who has to endure pregnancy and birth
if the man does not want to deal with the potential of having to support a child that he doesn't want then all he has to do it make the choice to not have sex. If he has sex he should always use a condom and be aware of the very slim odds that the condom will fail. He could even talk with the woman about what she woudl want to do if she was to get pregant and if she says she would keep the kid then he can decide whether to have sex (take the chance or not)
If the women is opposed to abortion and does get pregnant then they are both financially responsible unless they choose to put it up for adoption
Most responsible adults can deal with those rules
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the only problem is that reality is not equal and there is no way to make it equal (at least not one we've found yet)
it is the womans body and she is the one who has to endure pregnancy and birth
if the man does not want to deal with the potential of having to support a child that he doesn't want then all he has to do it make the choice to not have sex. If he has sex he should always use a condom and be aware of the very slim odds that the condom will fail. He could even talk with the woman about what she woudl want to do if she was to get pregant and if she says she would keep the kid then he can decide whether to have sex (take the chance or not)
If the women is opposed to abortion and does get pregnant then they are both financially responsible unless they choose to put it up for adoption
Most responsible adults can deal with those rules
LOL again legality doesnt equal morality straw
simply b/c most ppl can live with them doesnt make them right ::)
why is this idea not applied to the women? "if the man does not want to deal with the potential of having to support a child that he doesn't want then all he has to do it make the choice to not have sex."
b/c its her body correct?
well if its her body why is the man held accountable the decision she makes soley on her own about her body?
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LOL again legality doesnt equal morality straw
simply b/c most ppl can live with them doesnt make them right ::)
why is this idea not applied to the women? "if the man does not want to deal with the potential of having to support a child that he doesn't want then all he has to do it make the choice to not have sex."
b/c its her body correct?
well if its her body why is the man held accountable the decision she makes soley on her own about her body?
i was going to say the same thing. what if the woman wants to get an abortion and the man is against it? "Don't kill my baby" he says. "Fuck you", she tells him. "I'm killing it.". Now does the same rule apply to her? She could have simply chosen not to have sex. But now she is responsible for the man's child. If he must own up and face the responsibility then she would have to as well. Your scenario only accounts for the opposite. Again, I hate how libs view pregnancy as something that happened TO the woman. She made a chioce. And if you say "well she gave has to give birth to the baby so she has the right to kill it" I just simply disagree and think that's just bullshit logic and unfair.
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lol sorry im sick and a tad loopy from the night time tylenol...
to answer your question to #2 it depends on whether she had the choice to have an abortion or not
if yes she did have the choice, then the man should also have the choice
if no then, no
i think youre getting confused b/c youre taking post out of context. I feel that men should take care of their children forcefully if needed, I also feel women should take care of their children forcefully if needed.
but if you give one the opportunity to walk away you logically in fairness need to give the other the opportunity to walk away
you dont get to have it both ways
notice w8m8 quote "women fought for equal rights"?
from reading your prior posts I would have to assume your answer to scenario #2 would be both YES and NO
which one is it ?
I said the example was within our current legal system so obviously that means she has the choice
I also said she was personally opposed to abortion (again indicating a choice on her part)
so I assume your answer is YES that the man get's to walk away and could simply do this over and over and leave the financial burden for supporting his children to the rest of us
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I said the example was within our current legal system so obviously that means she has the choice
I also said she was personally opposed to abortion (again indicating a choice on her part)
so I assume your answer is YES that the man get's to walk away and could simply do this over and over and leave the financial burden for supporting his children to the rest of us
can women get abortion after abortion leaving the men who may want them childless?
lol sorry straw either they both get a choice or neither should
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i was going to say the same thing. what if the woman wants to get an abortion and the man is against it? "Don't kill my baby" he says. "Fuck you", she tells him. "I'm killing it.". Now does the same rule apply to her? She could have simply chosen not to have sex. But now she is responsible for the man's child. If he must own up and face the responsibility then she would have to as well. Your scenario only accounts for the opposite. Again, I hate how libs view pregnancy as something that happened TO the woman. She made a chioce. And if you say "well she gave has to give birth to the baby so she has the right to kill it" I just simply disagree and think that's just bullshit logic and unfair.
I guess we can either lock up women and force them to give birth or we can let the man father as many kids as he wants without taking any responsiblity and thus shift the burden of responsibility to the taxpayer
I think the best solution would be for the woman to give the man the fertilized egg and let him do whatever he wants with it.
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I guess we can either lock up women and force them to give birth or we can let the man father as many kids as he wants without taking any responsiblity and thus shift the burden of responsibility to the taxpayer
I think the best solution would be for the woman to give the man the fertilized egg and let him do whatever he wants with it.
read the bold part straw, do you understand that we let women do this right now?
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there are also other options bro its not so black and white
if the women wants to have an abortion and the man doesnt have her pay some monetary amount. If you want to get real ironic have her pay a % of her pay check for 18 years...
garuntee alot more ppl would use protection
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can women get abortion after abortion leaving the men who may want them childless?
this is not actually a problem in the real world
If a man wants children he'll probalby be smart enough to find a woman who wants to have children with him.
lol sorry straw either they both get a choice or neither should
so basically this is your round about way of saying you're opposed to abortion ?
you keep arguing the current system is "unfair" and the only two solutions you have are to change the abortion laws (i.e. forcing women to have children they don't want) or letting the men walk away
that pretty much sums up your position right?
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ps: I kow you're going to say you don't want to force woman to give birth against their will but then we're only left with your idea that men can just "walk away".......something you're both in favor of and opposed to
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read the bold part straw, do you understand that we let women do this right now?
no we don't
right now we hold both parents responsible although the reality is that sometimes neither father or mother acts responsibly
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this is not actually a problem in the real world
If a man wants children he'll probalby be smart enough to find a woman who wants to have children with him.
so basically this is your round about way of saying you're opposed to abortion ?
you keep arguing the current system is "unfair" and the only two solutions you have are to change the abortion laws (i.e. forcing women to have children they don't want) or letting the men walk away
that pretty much sums up your position right?
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ps: I kow you're going to say you don't want to force woman to give birth against their will but then we're only left with your idea that men can just "walk away".......something you're both in favor of and opposed to
LOL ::) abortions arent really a problem in real life?
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no we don't
right now we hold both parents responsible although the reality is that sometimes neither father or mother acts responsibly
LMFAO
how is the women held responsible straw man?
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I guess we can either lock up women and force them to give birth or we can let the man father as many kids as he wants without taking any responsiblity and thus shift the burden of responsibility to the taxpayer
I think the best solution would be for the woman to give the man the fertilized egg and let him do whatever he wants with it.
there is no good answer. bad things happen. we have the choice. make adults take responsibility for their behavior or kill babies. we live in a culture that opts to kill babies. why? well because they can't see who they are killing. no one ever knew who they are killing. makes everything a lot easier and a shitload more fun. i mean it's not like I don't get it. i totally get why abortion makes life easier for everyone. but that doesn't necessarily make it right in my mind.
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LMFAO
how is the women held responsible straw man?
are you joking
if a women gives birth (and doesn't give it up for adoption) then BOTH she and the father are responsible for supporting the kid
are you not actually aware of this?
???
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there is no good answer. bad things happen. we have the choice. make adults take responsibility for their behavior or kill babies. we live in a culture that opts to kill babies. why? well because they can't see who they are killing. no one ever knew who they are killing. makes everything a lot easier and a shitload more fun. i mean it's not like I don't get it. i totally get why abortion makes life easier for everyone. but that doesn't necessarily make it right in my mind.
ok but abortion is not actually killing babies
I know people who are anti-abortion like to portray it as such
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LOL ::) abortions arent really a problem in real life?
they haven't been a problem for me
how about you?
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are you joking
if a women gives birth (and doesn't give it up for adoption) then BOTH she and the father are responsible for supporting the kid
are you not actually aware of this?
???
IF IF IF, you moron....
the women isnt held responsible SHE CHOOOOOSSSESSSS to be responsible
THE MAN IS HELD RESPONSIBLE
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they haven't been a problem for me
how about you?
lol so there has never been a man who wanted to keep their child that was aborted?
there wasnt a man who didnt want the child who is forced to be responsible for it?
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If a woman is raped, becomes pregnant and then has the child; at which point before or after the birth the police apprehend the rapist and he is convicted and sent to prison, will the victim recieve child support derived from the incarcerated father or are all parental responsibilities forefited (including the responsibility to pay support) at the moment the defendant is convicted of rape? Explain your answer and include full citations to relevant case law. 500-750 words
Interesting law school exam type question I just pulled out of thin air.
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If a woman is raped, becomes pregnant and then has the child; at which point before or after the birth the police apprehend the rapist and he is convicted and sent to prison, will the victim recieve child support derived from the incarcerated father or are all parental responsibilities forefited (including the responsibility to pay support) at the moment the defendant is convicted of rape? Explain your answer and include full citations to relevant case law. 500-750 words
Interesting law school exam type question I just pulled out of thin air.
you're a lawyer?
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If a woman is raped, becomes pregnant and then has the child; at which point before or after the birth the police apprehend the rapist and he is convicted and sent to prison, will the victim recieve child support derived from the incarcerated father or are all parental responsibilities forefited (including the responsibility to pay support) at the moment the defendant is convicted of rape? Explain your answer and include full citations to relevant case law. 500-750 words
Interesting law school exam type question I just pulled out of thin air.
that's an interesting case logic there. Perhaps attach his wages, tax returns..and I'm not going on lexus nexus to citate shit..been there done that
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ok but abortion is not actually killing babies
I know people who are anti-abortion like to portray it as such
yeah it is. here. next time you see a pregnant woman. ask her what the fuck that thing is in her belly. she'll tell you.
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you're a lawyer?
Yes, GW is a lawyer.
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ok but abortion is not actually killing babies
I know people who are anti-abortion like to portray it as such
it's insane to me that you simply refuse to call it what it is. let's put it this way. if i kick the shit out of a pregnant woman and her baby dies. thats murder. and the courts recognize this now. so they disagree with you. and thats the law. you are big on that.
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yeah it is. here. next time you see a pregnant woman. ask her what the fuck that thing is in her belly. she'll tell you.
well you have your opinion but my opinion along with the medical community is that a cluster of cells is not a baby
if it were then we could just take out the cluster of cells and give it to the father and say here's your baby
it would look something like this period (.) in real life
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well you have your opinion but my opinion along with the medical community is that a cluster of cells is not a baby
if it were then we could just take out the cluster of cells and give it to the father and say here's your baby
it would look something like this period (.) in real life
what about at 19.5 weeks? cluster of cells or baby?
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Yes, GW is a lawyer.
are you his spokesperson?
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what about at 19.5 weeks? cluster of cells or baby?
what does the medical community say?
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what does the medical community say?
no hard agreement among the medical community. many different opinions.
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no hard agreement among the medical community. many different opinions.
well then it seems unlikely that you and I will agree
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are you his spokesperson?
Yes. :P
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what does the medical community say?
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and come on. just admit that you don't care if people kill their babies. you don't.
at the end of the day I know what I think is right and wrong. But i'm not going to act like I really care if you go out and get an abortion this afternoon. I honestly don't care if you kill your 3 year old either. I know that sounds harsh but it's true.
I don't lie to myself. I know what is right and how I want to live and how I want to teach my children to live. And that's all i know. You liberals stretch the boundaries of logic as far as you can in order to make your lives easier but still feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I live in the real world. Bad shit happens and I try to make the best out of it.
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IF IF IF, you moron....
the women isnt held responsible SHE CHOOOOOSSSESSSS to be responsible
THE MAN IS HELD RESPONSIBLE
still waiting for a response to this straw...
how do we hold the woman responsible?
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still waiting for a response to this straw...
how do we hold the woman responsible?
9mm
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outlaw abortion and institute sterilization
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and come on. just admit that you don't care if people kill their babies. you don't.
at the end of the day I know what I think is right and wrong. But i'm not going to act like I really care if you go out and get an abortion this afternoon. I honestly don't care if you kill your 3 year old either. I know that sounds harsh but it's true.
I don't lie to myself. I know what is right and how I want to live and how I want to teach my children to live. And that's all i know. You liberals stretch the boundaries of logic as far as you can in order to make your lives easier but still feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I live in the real world. Bad shit happens and I try to make the best out of it.
I'm not in favor of killing babies but I already said that I don't view a cluster of cells as a baby
you yourself wrote this yet you call me insane for not "calling it what is" .....i.e. calling it what you choose to call it
no hard agreement among the medical community. many different opinions.
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and come on. just admit that you don't care if people kill their babies. you don't.
at the end of the day I know what I think is right and wrong. But i'm not going to act like I really care if you go out and get an abortion this afternoon. I honestly don't care if you kill your 3 year old either. I know that sounds harsh but it's true.
I don't lie to myself. I know what is right and how I want to live and how I want to teach my children to live. And that's all i know. You liberals stretch the boundaries of logic as far as you can in order to make your lives easier but still feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I live in the real world. Bad shit happens and I try to make the best out of it.
Speaking the truth, again. This is part of the problem with the abortion question. People dehumanize the baby to help justify killing it. On the other hand, many pro life people ignore the woman's bodily integrity issue.
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I'm not in favor of killing babies but I already said that I don't view a cluster of cells as a baby
you yourself wrote this yet you call me insane for not "calling it what is" .....i.e. calling it what you choose to call it
hey whatever allows you to sleep at night i guess. even though i think deep down you know your logic is flawed.
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still waiting for a response to this straw...
how do we hold the woman responsible?
hey dipshit - I answered your question the first time you asked it
are you joking
if a women gives birth (and doesn't give it up for adoption) then BOTH she and the father are responsible for supporting the kid
are you not actually aware of this?
???
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hey whatever allows you to sleep at night i guess. even though i think deep down you know your logic is flawed.
well like you said the medical community is not in agreement either and they more than anyone should know the answer
your basic position is that you're against abortion because you think it's killing babies
I don't agree with you and ~ half the country doesn't agree with you either
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well like you said the medical community is not in agreement either and they more than anyone should know the answer
your basic position is that you're against abortion because you think it's killing babies
I don't agree with you and ~ half the country doesn't agree with you either
the medical community is in disagreement on what a late term abortion is. they all know that it's a baby. they just don't have a set number of weeks into gestation where the baby is viable. because thats what the definition of "late term" comes from. so i guess thats what i meant when i said the medical community is not in agreement on whether its a baby. of course they know its a baby. thats why they do ultrasounds and tests on the fetus. if it wasn't a baby, why the hell would they be doing tests on it?
half the country is in favor of abortion. they don't ALL lie to themselves that its not actually a baby.
you are just playing with words now because your logic is just not standing on firm ground.
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by the way, when was the last time you went to a cluster of cells shower? what did you get for the cluster of cells?
do you think women are stupid because they throw a baby shower for something thats not even a baby?
half kidding.
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just curious too. do you think it was unfair for Scott Peterson to be convicted of 2 murders?
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just curious too. do you think it was unfair for Scott Peterson to be convicted of 2 murders?
how far along was his wife?
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how far along was his wife?
how far along would she need to be for you to consider it a murder?
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how far along would she need to be for you to consider it a murder?
she was 30 weeks
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how far along would she need to be for you to consider it a murder?
whatever the number is where she can't legally get an abortion
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she was 30 weeks
and there's nothing set in stone about how many weeks someone has to be i don't think.
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whatever the number is where she can't legally get an abortion
come on man will you please just have one fucking god damn original thought in this debate!!!!??? give me YOUR opinion. not Congress' opinion. it's OK to have an opinion of your own you know. You'll be OK.
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i mean you make fun of religious people having blind faith. isn't that just what you're doing? except you use Congressmen as your God. Sheesh.
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she was 30 weeks
I thought she was a tad further along than that but you're probably right. If I'm not mistaken, I think some states view unborn child as murder if it could possible live outside the womb at the time of the murder. AND fuck yes IMO he deserved to be convicted of double homicide, PIECE of shit
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come on man will you please just have one fucking god damn original thought in this debate!!!!??? give me YOUR opinion. not Congress' opinion. it's OK to have an opinion of your own you know. You'll be OK.
are you joking
you asked me a question and I gave you my answer and it turns out you don't even know up to how many weeks it's legally allowed either and you're criticizing me for not having an original thought?
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i mean you make fun of religious people having blind faith. isn't that just what you're doing? except you use Congressmen as your God. Sheesh.
how is my position (I agree with the current laws) equivalent to religious blind faith?
When did I mention my congressperson or God
you're going off the rails
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I thought she was a tad further along than that but you're probably right. If I'm not mistaken, I think some states view unborn child as murder if it could possible live outside the womb at the time of the murder. AND fuck yes IMO he deserved to be convicted of double homicide, PIECE of shit
that's what I thought too
I recall seeing photos where she looked very pregnant
Also, she wasn't choosing to have an abortion given that she was very fair along and intended to have the baby I would definitely say it was murder
I honestly can't think of much of anything more horrible than killing your own pregnant wife
hopefully that guy will be killed in jail before his execution date
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that's what I thought too
I recall seeing photos where she looked very pregnant
Also, she wasn't choosing to have an abortion given that she was very fair along and intended to have the baby I would definitely say it was murder
I honestly can't think of much of anything more horrible than killing your own pregnant wife
hopefully that guy will be killed in jail before his execution date
Um 30 weeks is 7 and a half months you guys. you guys don't think thats far along? jesus what's late term to you guys. does the kid need a fucking driver's license? so straw now your definition of a baby falls on the mother's intentions with said baby?
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how is my position (I agree with the current laws) equivalent to religious blind faith?
When did I mention my congressperson or God
you're going off the rails
because your opinion is completely hinged upon what the current law is. i ask you about your morals and you reply with, "well what does the law say?" are you kidding ME?
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because your opinion is completely hinged upon what the current law is. i ask you about your morals and you reply with, "well what does the law say?" are you kidding ME?
where did you ask about my morals
I didn't see that post from you
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where did you ask about my morals
I didn't see that post from you
when i asked you how far along a woman needed to be for you to call it murder. thats essentially a moral question. you responded with whatever the number is where you can't legally get an abortion. thats just weak on so many levels.
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quick google search..He was convicted of second degree murder for baby conner..She was 7 and half months..many babies are born at this time and can live outside the womb, mostly in nic u but can lead healthy lives..
this smug mother fucker
(http://crimemagazine.com/images/scott_peterson.jpg)
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when i asked you how far along a woman needed to be for you to call it murder. thats essentially a moral question. you responded with whatever the number is where you can't legally get an abortion. thats just weak on so many levels.
It not my choice what to call something murder and it's not yours either
we dont' call bombing innocent people murder but I would call it that if it were my choice
I would call the Peterson case murder of the baby because she was beyond the point where she could get a legal abortion and becasue she had no intention of getting an abortion
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quick google search..He was convicted of second degree murder for baby conner..She was 7 and half months..many babies are born at this time and can live outside the womb, mostly in nic u but can lead healthy lives..
this smug mother fucker
(http://crimemagazine.com/images/scott_peterson.jpg)
I would vote for Scott Peterson / Joran VanderSloot over obama in 2012 if given the chance and choice.
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quick google search..He was convicted of second degree murder for baby conner..She was 7 and half months..many babies are born at this time and can live outside the womb, mostly in nic u but can lead healthy lives..
this smug mother fucker
(http://crimemagazine.com/images/scott_peterson.jpg)
if he did the same thing in 2003 before Bush signed The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 straw would have had no problem with what he did. Straw would have deferred to the law and concluded that Scott Peterson only killed one person.
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I would vote for Scott Peterson / Joran VanderSloot over obama in 2012 if given the chance and choice.
are you fucking for real?
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are you fucking for real?
Yes. Easily. Both are already in jail where bama belongs and they could spend no more money, pass no laws, not embarass us in the WH, etc.
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Yes. Easily. Both are already in jail where bama belongs and they could spend no more money, pass no laws, not embarass us in the WH, etc.
oh you kill me with LOL sometimes..
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It not my choice what to call something murder and it's not yours either
we dont' call bombing innocent people murder but I would call it that if it were my choice
I would call the Peterson case murder of the baby because she was beyond the point where she could get a legal abortion and becasue she had no intention of getting an abortion
But on the flip side of this Straw, their have been cases and again I'm not going to google or go to lexus nexus to get court cases or anything. But some men have murdered a woman who was pregnant at 3 months along (think it was florida) and got absolute shit for the unborn baby. She wanted the child he didn't.
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It not my choice what to call something murder and it's not yours either
we dont' call bombing innocent people murder but I would call it that if it were my choice
I would call the Peterson case murder of the baby because she was beyond the point where she could get a legal abortion and becasue she had no intention of getting an abortion
not at that time. depended upon what state you lived in at that time. At that time you could kill a baby as long as it didnt take a breath in a lot of states. so they pull a 30 week old baby out of the womb breach on purpose and smash the brains with forceps. baby never took a breath. therefore it is NOT a baby. nice and neat. although there are a few cases of the baby surviving. in which case that logic simply folds.
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But on the flip side of this Straw, their have been cases and again I'm not going to google or go to lexus nexus to get court cases or anything. But some men have murdered a woman who was pregnant at 3 months along (think it was florida) and got absolute shit for the unborn baby. She wanted the child he didn't.
yeah i think they were only able to be charged with assault. i think there was one where the guy got probation.
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yeah i think they were only able to be charged with assault. i think there was one where the guy got probation.
and how did that crazy bitch in texas get off murdering her 4 kids in the bath tub..UH I think it was 4 kids...Oh yea she was nuts
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not at that time. depended upon what state you lived in at that time. At that time you could kill a baby as long as it didnt take a breath in a lot of states. so they pull a 30 week old baby out of the womb breach on purpose and smash the brains with forceps. baby never took a breath. therefore it is NOT a baby. nice and neat. although there are a few cases of the baby surviving. in which case that logic simply folds.
and straw this is the logic you subscribe to.
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hey dipshit - I answered your question the first time you asked it
and i replied...
again SHE CHOOSES to take responsibility as she has the chance to walk away
the man is held responsible
so I ask you again how do we hold women responsible?
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the medical community is in disagreement on what a late term abortion is. they all know that it's a baby. they just don't have a set number of weeks into gestation where the baby is viable. because thats what the definition of "late term" comes from. so i guess thats what i meant when i said the medical community is not in agreement on whether its a baby. of course they know its a baby. thats why they do ultrasounds and tests on the fetus. if it wasn't a baby, why the hell would they be doing tests on it?
half the country is in favor of abortion. they don't ALL lie to themselves that its not actually a baby.
you are just playing with words now because your logic is just not standing on firm ground.
lol same thing he tried to do with ppls views on regulations of abortions and their pro life/choice stance
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if he did the same thing in 2003 before Bush signed The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 straw would have had no problem with what he did. Straw would have deferred to the law and concluded that Scott Peterson only killed one person.
LOL qft
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and how did that crazy bitch in texas get off murdering her 4 kids in the bath tub..UH I think it was 4 kids...Oh yea she was nuts
which is a whole other thread that we could discuss for an entire year.
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which is a whole other thread that we could discuss for an entire year.
true indeed bears
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and i replied...
again SHE CHOOSES to take responsibility as she has the chance to walk away
the man is held responsible
so I ask you again how do we hold women responsible?
Simple.
Don't have sex with women you don't want to have children with.
Sandra
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why is that same rule not applied to the women sandra?
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true indeed bears
we should start that one. That is one issue where i can confidently say that I have no idea what to do or even where i stand on the issue.
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you're a lawyer?
You're a swift one aren't you. ::)
And Newmom-- For a scant 3 thousand dollar per month investment, you too can experience a restricted Lexis Nexis account. Or we can sift through the trash of a local law school and look for a lexis nexis law student access code card that will give us full account privileges for free. I'll do my part. I happen to stalk a cafeteria worker at Fordham law school from my silver tinted white Dodge Astro van 3-5x per week. I know exactly where and when there is garbage removal. Care to join me on a date? I keep a can of "Oust" in the passengers seat next to my duct tape and pepper spray. We could grab some takeout from the 24 hour KFC/ Pizza Hut two blocks away from campus.
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You're a swift one aren't you. ::)
And Newmom-- For a scant 3 thousand dollar per month investment, you too can experience a restricted Lexis Nexis account. Or we can sift through the trash of a local law school and look for a lexis nexis law student access code card that will give us full account privileges for free. I'll do my part. I happen to stalk a cafeteria worker at Fordham law school from my silver tinted white Dodge Astro van 3-5x per week. I know exactly where and when there is garbage removal. Care to join me on a date? I keep a can of "Oust" in the passengers seat next to my duct tape and pepper spray. We could grab some takeout from the 24 hour KFC/ Pizza Hut two blocks away from campus.
;D ;D
Or the White Castle across from the Main Campus in the Bronx (My stomping grounds).
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You're a swift one aren't you. ::)
And Newmom-- For a scant 3 thousand dollar per month investment, you too can experience a restricted Lexis Nexis account. Or we can sift through the trash of a local law school and look for a lexis nexis law student access code card that will give us full account privileges for free. I'll do my part. I happen to stalk a cafeteria worker at Fordham law school from my silver tinted white Dodge Astro van 3-5x per week. I know exactly where and when there is garbage removal. Care to join me on a date? I keep a can of "Oust" in the passengers seat next to my duct tape and pepper spray. We could grab some takeout from the 24 hour KFC/ Pizza Hut two blocks away from campus.
LMAO you dink. I have full access to lexis (my old paralegal teachers give me the password). The only time I sniff through garbage is when I'm looking for something I may or may not have thrown out. Capeesh? Comprende? ;D. I don't care for KFC nor do I like cheese so that date is NOT good. Perhaps Benny's Burritos on 6th and C..just a short walk from the V or F line ;D
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;D ;D
Or the White Castle across from the Main Campus in the Bronx (My stomping grounds).
mmmmmmm belly bombers and chicken rings..I'm in ;D
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"White Castle fries only come in one size..."
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mmmmmmm belly bombers and chicken rings..I'm in ;D
I have one client whose secretary always asks me to bring her Fish Nibblers and Jalepeno Poppers. Nasty shit.
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"White Castle fries only come in one size..."
and we got thrown out!
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I have one client whose secretary always asks me to bring her Fish Nibblers and Jalepeno Poppers. Nasty shit.
not to get off subject but is that what is also at White Castle. They don't have any where I live and haven't been to one for a couple of years. The fish nibblers don't sound appetizing and why ruining yummy jalepenos with cheese...gross