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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Voland on January 10, 2012, 01:47:45 PM
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After 9 years of benzo usage and months of just 1 pill a day i can say that I'VE BEEN BENZO CLEAN for 4 days and tonight i'll be the 4th night. I feel very tired but i'm willing to leave benzos behind for good. Today i even did a light arm workout. So far i do little naps at night. :)
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After 9 years of benzo usage and months of just 1 pill a day i can say that I'VE BEEN BENZO CLEAN for 4 days and tonight i'll be the 4th night. I feel very tired but i'm willing to leave benzos behind for good. Today i even did a light arm workout. So far i do little naps at night. :)
Congratulations! Very nice to hear!
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Keep it up bro.......one day at a time or one minute at a time,whatever it takes.
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Keep it up bro.......one day at a time or one minute at a time,whatever it takes.
Yup. It's in our nature for instant gratification...but, baby steps. Make haste, slowly, etc. Congrats to you, and best wishes. :)
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Good stuff brother! Way to take your life back. 8)
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Am I the only retard who does not know what "benzos" are?
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Am I the only retard who does not know what "benzos" are?
Maybe you don't like using google.com in Romania.
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Am I the only retard who does not know what "benzos" are?
Some sort of sleeping pill I think.
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If that is what makes you happy, congrats...
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After 9 years of benzo usage and months of just 1 pill a day i can say that I'VE BEEN BENZO CLEAN for 4 days and tonight i'll be the 4th night. I feel very tired but i'm willing to leave benzos behind for good. Today i even did a light arm workout. So far i do little naps at night. :)
I am very happy to hear that you are benzo clean, now there are a lot of guys on getbig whose dick needs cleaning so could you please go to work on that as soon as possible.
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Awesome, man. Good for you. They're a tough drug addiction to kick. All the best.
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All the best
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Good job man.
That shit is tough to kick. I lost a good friend to benzos many years ago. He took a few too many, fell asleep and never woke up.
Good luck.
8)
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bring back the Creed avatar
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I quit cold turkey after being on for like 6 months last year and it sucked. I started getting all my senses back to normal and it can be a little much for most people. Theres benzo receptors all over the body so it can cause shock when coming off and seizures do happen to some.
If you feel like its a little much for you going cold turkey there is nothing wrong with lowering your dose gradually. Someone on here posted that there neighbour died a few weeks ago from withdrawals and it can happen. I think he was on xanax which has a really short half life but if you were on diazapem you would not likely experience any wd symptoms right away due to the long half life... I think it can be up to 200hrs.
Just be careful dude and good luck. oh and check this site if you wanna lower your dose gradually:
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/
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Am I the only retard who does not know what "benzos" are?
xanax, valium, restoril, ativan, etc.
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:)
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Someone on here posted that there neighbour died a few weeks ago from withdrawals and it can happen. I think he was on xanax
That was me Borracho, poor dudes body heated up, heart failed, renal failure, seizure he didnt recover, his parents havent recovered either, very nice and giving family, he took the xanax for no reason, it was just for fun then his body become dependant on it..was on it for about 6 yrs, he tried to go cold turkey which was a mistake and he died.
Yeah if you can lower your dose gradually its better.
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That was me Borracho, poor dudes body heated up, heart failed, renal failure, seizure he didnt recover, his parents havent recovered either, very nice and giving family, he took the xanax for no reason, it was just for fun then his body become dependant on it..was on it for about 6 yrs, he tried to go cold turkey which was a mistake and he died.
Yeah if you can lower your dose gradually its better.
What a shitty way to go :-\
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That was me Borracho, poor dudes body heated up, heart failed, renal failure, seizure he didnt recover, his parents havent recovered either, very nice and giving family, he took the xanax for no reason, it was just for fun then his body become dependant on it..was on it for about 6 yrs, he tried to go cold turkey which was a mistake and he died.
Yeah if you can lower your dose gradually its better.
he must have been taking a HUGE amount, and by huge i mean 20mg. a day plus, youre not going to suffer those problems from 1mg. a day or less, MODERATION is the key in everything.
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he must have been taking a HUGE amount, and by huge i mean 20mg. a day plus, youre not going to suffer those problems from 1mg. a day or less, MODERATION is the key in everything.
Quaker he was taking about 6-10 pills a day, i dont know about the mgs of these things, but he was taking heaps, he would be on cloud 9 all day, glazed eyes without a care in the world
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mental illnesses dont exist. There are just people who ve been loved enough, and others who werent. "Illnesses" develop because of sins. Both physical and mental ones.
All you need to build faith is someone who has it and will share it with you. As these "angels", messengers of God are very rare nowadays, you can directly consult God by reading the Bible and start conversing with him everyday until you start purifying yourself.
He left it for us, His creatures, so we can live happy lives accomplishing his mission and using our body and soul in this endeavour, which will give a meaning to our lives when others who worship themselves, material goods, sex and money as their gods will lose the will to live.
We are preparing the kingdom of God on earth.
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he must have been taking a HUGE amount, and by huge i mean 20mg. a day plus, youre not going to suffer those problems from 1mg. a day or less, MODERATION is the key in everything.
Yeah the thing is that your body builds a tolerance to its effects pretty quick. So if he was on them for 6 years he was likely on a high dose.
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mental illnesses dont exist. There are just people who ve been loved enough, and others who werent. "Illnesses" develop because of sins. Both physical and mental ones.
lol
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Yeah the thing is that your body builds a tolerance to its effects pretty quick. So if he was on them for 6 years he was likely on a high dose.
your body builds absolutely no "tolerance" to Xanax when its taken as prescribed, your friend was a drug addict and he swallowed as many pills as he could get, .05 to 1mg. a day will hurt NO ONE, its when the weak scumbag drug addict take 20mg. and drink alcohol on top of it, thats when the problems arise.
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mental illnesses dont exist. There are just people who ve been loved enough, and others who werent. "Illnesses" develop because of sins. Both physical and mental ones.
All you need to build faith is someone who has it and will share it with you. As these "angels", messengers of God are very rare nowadays, you can directly consult God by reading the Bible. He left it for us, His creatures, so we can live happy lives accomplishing his mission. We are preparing the kingdom of God.
You sir are one screwed up fucker!
I bet your life is picture perfect huh?
ASSHOLE!!
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your body builds absolutely no "tolerance" to Xanax when its taken as prescribed, your friend was a drug addict and he swallowed as many pills as he could get, .05 to 1mg. a day will hurt NO ONE, its when the weak scumbag drug addict take 20mg. and drink alcohol on top of it, thats when the problems arise.
thats not nice, he wasnt a scumbag, he didnt hurt anybody, he kept to himself, he was actually a good guy with a xanax habit. if he was a scumbag then i would just say so, but he was decent dude, when people in the neighbourhood were renovating or needed a hand he was always there and never accepted money from anyone.
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You sir are one screwed up fucker!
I bet your life is picture perfect huh?
ASSHOLE!!
Relax, bro. It's Tom Cruise. We should be so indebted that we have so an exalted a presence with us. :-X
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Relax, bro. It's Tom Cruise. We should be so indebted that we have so an exalted a presence with us. :-X
You`re right,I`m sorry!
::)
;D
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your body builds absolutely no "tolerance" to Xanax when its taken as prescribed, your friend was a drug addict and he swallowed as many pills as he could get, .05 to 1mg. a day will hurt NO ONE, its when the weak scumbag drug addict take 20mg. and drink alcohol on top of it, thats when the problems arise.
I don't think you've ever been on this sort of med...there is tolerance to all benzos and docs will usually switch you from one to the next.
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You`re right,I`m sorry!
::)
:D
Remember this one? 'You don't mental health. I do!'
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Remember this one? 'You don't mental health. I do!'
Never saw it bro.
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mental illnesses dont exist. There are just people who ve been loved enough, and others who werent. "Illnesses" develop because of sins. Both physical and mental ones.
All you need to build faith is someone who has it and will share it with you. As these "angels", messengers of God are very rare nowadays, you can directly consult God by reading the Bible. He left it for us, His creatures, so we can live happy lives accomplishing his mission. We are preparing the kingdom of God.
Bullshit! I have had anxiety since I was a little kid. When I was 14 years old why did I experince anxiety atttacks? My mom and dad treated me great. I was to young to be doing anything to bad. I hadn't touched a drug yet. You sound like Tom Cruise.
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take 20mg. and drink alcohol on top of it, thats when the problems Party starts.
fixed :D
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fixed :D
LOL haha that was funny!!
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After 9 years of benzo usage and months of just 1 pill a day i can say that I'VE BEEN BENZO CLEAN for 4 days and tonight i'll be the 4th night. I feel very tired but i'm willing to leave benzos behind for good. Today i even did a light arm workout. So far i do little naps at night. :)
Whaddya want, a medal? ::)
I'm sure there's an addicts forum somewhere on the net. ::) Nobody here cares.
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Whaddya want, a medal? ::)
I'm sure there's an addicts forum somewhere on the net. ::) Nobody here cares.
Got a lot more views and replies than any of your political threads....
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Got a lot more views and replies than any of your political threads....
OUCH!!! ;D
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Got a lot more views and replies than any of your political threads....
You know the view count of all of my threads??? Wow, ya' must have been stalking me for years! ::)
OUCH!!! ;D
Stubbed your toe again, eh? That'll teach ya' not to try to walk through your living room without your bifocals, gramps.
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You know the view count of all of my threads??? Wow, ya' must have been stalking me for years! ::)
Stubbed your toe again, eh? That'll teach ya' not to try to walk through your living room without your bifocals, gramps.
Gotta` admit,that was funny................... .kinda` !! ;D
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You know the view count of all of my threads??? Wow, ya' must have been stalking me for years! ::)
Stubbed your toe again, eh? That'll teach ya' not to try to walk through your living room without your bifocals, gramps.
hahaha so I'm right after all.
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some people can't function properly w/o Benzos, but you gotta use them to be *normal* ~not high.
Some people would have offed themselves w/o other drugs like Psychotropics and SSRi's, etc.
There are a host of VERY REAL debilitating mental illnesses out there.
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Drug addicts, of all sorts, are the result of a weak mind imo.
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Drug addicts, of all sorts, are the result of a weak mind imo.
Your opinion means nothing here. And you are developing a list of enemies that want to see you gone...I'm getting some great pms about you...it's only a matter of time "deadz" my boy...I'm gonna enjoy every second... :-*
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I take all as prescribed.Im a walking pharmacy. xanax is the best drug ever created!If you need it. can really change your life. also really lowers your BP if your on cycle.if you are not used to them all the day is make you tired. but if you really need them you dnt get that tired off them they just relax you. some people are real amped up like me.I also have the disc herniations and a cracked T12 from getting hit by A DRUNK.
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Your opinion means nothing here. And you are developing a list of enemies that want to see you gone...I'm getting some great pms about you...it's only a matter of time "deadz" my boy...I'm gonna enjoy every second... :-*
Being unemployed and broke has made you, Milton Wiggins III, a bitter man.
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Being unemployed and broke has made you, Milton Wiggins III, a bitter man.
:-*
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Am I the only retard who does not know what "benzos" are?
I had not heard of "benzo" either. So, I looked it up and here is what I found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine.
I suspect it is best to wean oneself off drugs like these very slowly and with the advice of your doctor. Quitting some drugs cold turkey can be life threatening.
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mental illnesses dont exist. There are just people who ve been loved enough, and others who werent. "Illnesses" develop because of sins. Both physical and mental ones.
All you need to build faith is someone who has it and will share it with you. As these "angels", messengers of God are very rare nowadays, you can directly consult God by reading the Bible and start conversing with him everyday until you start purifying yourself.
He left it for us, His creatures, so we can live happy lives accomplishing his mission and using our body and soul in this endeavour, which will give a meaning to our lives when others who worship themselves, material goods, sex and money as their gods will lose the will to live.
We are preparing the kingdom of God on earth.
Why don't you just go away. Mental illness does exist....look in the mirror buddy, you'll see a prime example of mental illness hard at work.
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Have to say again if you use these things AS PRESCRIBEDthey can be very beneficial, the people who ABUSE these medications screw it up for the people who legitimately need it.
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:D
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mental illnesses dont exist. There are just people who ve been loved enough, and others who werent. "Illnesses" develop because of sins. Both physical and mental ones.
All you need to build faith is someone who has it and will share it with you. As these "angels", messengers of God are very rare nowadays, you can directly consult God by reading the Bible and start conversing with him everyday until you start purifying yourself.
He left it for us, His creatures, so we can live happy lives accomplishing his mission and using our body and soul in this endeavour, which will give a meaning to our lives when others who worship themselves, material goods, sex and money as their gods will lose the will to live.
We are preparing the kingdom of God on earth.
How do you survive in real life? I can only imagine how people react when you say things like this to people in person. How can you possibly believe that mental illness is a result of people not being dedicated enough to their religion? This is absurd in every way.
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How do you survive in real life? I can only imagine how people react when you say things like this to people in person. How can you possibly believe that mental illness is a result of people not being dedicated enough to their religion? This is absurd in every way.
For real man. Its people like him who helped push me in the direction of athieism. Ive never been happier, I drink alot less, and my marige is the best its been in years. Thank you GOD, for getting the F U C K out of my life. 8)
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Have to say again if you use these things AS PRESCRIBEDthey can be very beneficial, the people who ABUSE these medications screw it up for the people who legitimately need it.
they sure do!
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Have to say again if you use these things AS PRESCRIBEDthey can be very beneficial, the people who ABUSE these medications screw it up for the people who legitimately need it.
I have to respectfully disagree with you on that statement to the extreme.
I work with these drugs for a living.
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anxiety can run in your family like it does mine. alot of people on my moms side have anxiety issues. I get to hyped up and need something to calm me down. I get overwhelmed real easy and their is nothing better for anxiety and anxiety attacks than xanax. If you dont ned xanax it will just make you tired and pass out. if you have real anxiety you usually are a real aggressive hyped up person and just a few xanax pills will get you down to a normal level to where you can funtion and without having other things running through your mind. also when someone with anxiety tries to sleep their brain keeps running . they keep on thinking about something. usually if you have alot of problems you will think about them when you are trying to sleep. and if you take a few xanax you can sleep without thinking of these distractions. I had to worry about things alot when I was younger i wasn't born with a silv er spoon in my mouth and my mom had troiuble feeding us kids and paying rent its stressful when you dont know if your going to have a place to live next month and your 10 years old and can't do shit about it. usually kids like this gte ahead in life early working early , selling dope whatever they can do to make money to help their family. I make it so my mom dosn't have to worry I kick down 5k stacksof cash every few months. make sure she dosn't have to worry. when your already born with anxiety tendancys and problems like paying bills and rent come up and your to young to help out it makes your anxiety worse when you get older.thats why people in those positions usually get into working hard and hustling drugs for money orhustling howvere they can to mke alot of money to ease the worries and stress in their lifes alot of stress comes from money issues. even if you get older and have alot of money you always want more. and you tend to have a mind that constantly worries so in this siuation xanax is a great choice.
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After 9 years of benzo usage and months of just 1 pill a day i can say that I'VE BEEN BENZO CLEAN for 4 days and tonight i'll be the 4th night. I feel very tired but i'm willing to leave benzos behind for good. Today i even did a light arm workout. So far i do little naps at night. :)
Good thing.
Says Dr Dutch
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You can't workout on benzos? I tear shit up on benzos and oxycodone tabs.When I cycle I also use benzos to lower BP and anxiety and oxycodone for my herniated discs and craked spine
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You can't workout on benzos? I tear shit up on benzos and oxycodone tabs.When I cycle I also use benzos to lower BP and anxiety and oxycodone for my herniated discs and craked spine
Benzo's don't lower BP...
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anxiety can run in your family like it does mine. alot of people on my moms side have anxiety issues. I get to hyped up and need something to calm me down. I get overwhelmed real easy and their is nothing better for anxiety and anxiety attacks than xanax. If you dont ned xanax it will just make you tired and pass out. if you have real anxiety you usually are a real aggressive hyped up person and just a few xanax pills will get you down to a normal level to where you can funtion and without having other things running through your mind. also when someone with anxiety tries to sleep their brain keeps running . they keep on thinking about something. usually if you have alot of problems you will think about them when you are trying to sleep. and if you take a few xanax you can sleep without thinking of these distractions. I had to worry about things alot when I was younger i wasn't born with a silv er spoon in my mouth and my mom had troiuble feeding us kids and paying rent its stressful when you dont know if your going to have a place to live next month and your 10 years old and can't do shit about it. usually kids like this gte ahead in life early working early , selling dope whatever they can do to make money to help their family. I make it so my mom dosn't have to worry I kick down 5k stacksof cash every few months. make sure she dosn't have to worry. when your already born with anxiety tendancys and problems like paying bills and rent come up and your to young to help out it makes your anxiety worse when you get older.thats why people in those positions usually get into working hard and hustling drugs for money orhustling howvere they can to mke alot of money to ease the worries and stress in their lifes alot of stress comes from money issues. even if you get older and have alot of money you always want more. and you tend to have a mind that constantly worries so in this siuation xanax is a great choice.
Good post. I quite agree.
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You can't workout on benzos? I tear shit up on benzos and oxycodone tabs.When I cycle I also use benzos to lower BP and anxiety and oxycodone for my herniated discs and craked spine
Whitewidow you might want to try Metoprolosuccinaat. start at 50mg in the morning if you dont notice a difference/calming effect within a few days go up to 100mg. Your Dr will be glad to put you on these and get you off the pams and oxy. Be careful slowly coming off/out of the haze. Training will come back on pare and focused.
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ive googled it, i want it now
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Whitewidow you might want to try Metoprolosuccinaat. start at 50mg in the morning if you dont notice a difference/calming effect within a few days go up to 100mg. Your Dr will be glad to put you on these and get you off the pams and oxy. Be careful slowly coming off/out of the haze. Training will come back on pare and focused.
No I am on a pain contract I am on oxys for good same with xanax this is my permanent prescription med stack 6mg xanax a day, 240mg oxycontin/ 240mg oxycodone IR for breakthrough pain. you guys have to remember I have 6 blown discs and a cracked T12 wich is a crack in the mid spine. its a amazing stack! changed my life for the better
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After 9 years of benzo usage and months of just 1 pill a day i can say that I'VE BEEN BENZO CLEAN for 4 days and tonight i'll be the 4th night. I feel very tired but i'm willing to leave benzos behind for good. Today i even did a light arm workout. So far i do little naps at night. :)
I got up to 90mg of Valium a day at one point, I tried cold turkey a few times & it sucked hard!!
The only way I got off successfully, was with a tapering schedule of 5mg per week, & then 2gm a week past 30mg.
It took me x6 months to start feeling right again (from the moment I started to taper down, till zero Valium a day).
I had access to pharma grade ampoules of dia-morphine/cyclizine & morphine/pentazocine, also.Loved that lot for years, & also found all the opiates much easier to come off than Benzo's.
Once you get clean of LONG term Benzo use, you will NEVER go back, that stuff is rancid. It's fine if you just have a 10mg every now & then to relax, but when you are on high doses daily it starts to fucking suck. I have been clean for a LONG time now & would NEVER habitually use again for all the GOLD in India. Life becomes REAL shit, REAL quick, when you have a habit.
I still like a little 50mg Pentazocine IV every now & then as a treat (it's fucking nice when you have clean receptors), but I look on these drugs as some-thing to respected, or some-thing to be left alone. She is a fickle mistress, & will bite your cock/balls off/eat them, if you show the slightest sigh of weakness.
Stay focused on what you are doing, or stay away.
Not for the weak willed.
PT
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Whaddya want, a medal? ::)
I'm sure there's an addicts forum somewhere on the net. ::) Nobody here cares.
You are a wanker BB, & no-one here cares what you have to say.
10K posts, & still no-one reads your threads. Ignorant, fucking prick. Go suck the business end of a .357 Magnum, you fucking, degenerate, twat.
The guy is a Get-BIG'er & he has had some issues. I am pleased for him, he is sorting his life out. You are a tool of the highest order ::)
PT
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I was prescribed efexor xl and take them everyday at 150mg and they have changed my life for the better, id be in jail otherwise
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I got up to 90mg of Valium a day at one point, I tried cold turkey a few times & it sucked hard!!
The only way I got off successfully was with a tapering schedule of 5mg per week, & then 2gm a week past 30mg.
It took me x6 months to start feeling right again (from the moment I started to taper down, till zero Valium a day).
I had access to phara grade ampoules of dia-morphine/cyclizine & morphine/pentazocine, also.Loved that lot for years, & also found all the opiates much easier to come off than Benzo's.
Once you get clean of LONG term Benzo use, you will NEVER go back, that stuff is rancid, it's fine if you just have a 10mg every now & then to relax, but when you are high doses daily it starts to fucking suck. I have been clean for a LONG time now & would NEVER habitually use again for all the GOLD in India. Life becomes REAL shit, REAL quick when you have a habit.
I still like a little 50mg Pentazocine IV every now & then as a treat (it's fucking nice when you have clean receptors), but I look on these drugs as some-thing to respected, or some-thing to be left alone. She is a fickle mistress, & will bite your cock/balls off/then eat them, if you show the slightest sigh of weakness.
Stay focused on what you are doing, or stay away.
Not for the weak willed.
PT
Glad you got clean dude.......props.
I used to abuse valiums also but not to the point of 80 mgs a day.......have done 100 a few times.
Ironically,after being clean for many years I have a script for valium but I only take as needed for anxiety or to help me sleep,which is far from an everyday thing.
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congrats man. i have someone in my family that also need sleeping\anxiety meds so i can relate. It sucks
now make those 4 days 40 then 80 and so on.
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Glad you got clean dude.......props.
I used to abuse valiums also but not to the point of 80 mgs a day.......have done 100 a few times.
Ironically,after being clean for many years I have a script for valium but I only take as needed for anxiety or to help me sleep,which is far from an everyday thing.
Thanks Wes.
I have seen the Dark side of Valium & never want to back. Did it for years. I have the T-shirt & that's enough for me.
Some-one I knew once said that it was like looking at life through a net curtain & you do not see this untill you get clean & the curtain is lifted.
After x6 weeks of Zero Valium (once tapered down) I felt the curtain start to life.
I still like a little 50mg Pentazocine IV every now & then as a treat, but not enough to get a habit or fuck my main vien up.
I will leave it alone for months & the have a little go with some nice Minali cream (Indian primo garde Hash) & some good tunes, then leave it alone again.
As said "show her respect, or leave her alone"
Not for the weak willed.
PT
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I was prescribed efexor xl and take them everyday at 150mg and they have changed my life for the better, id be in jail otherwise
That's by far the strongest SSRI... affecting both serotonin and norepinephrine... at the higher doses will also affect dopamine, so that's all three major brain neurotransmitters
One of the strongers medications ever made
Most people cannot quit effexor, the internet is filled with horror stories of those who tried and failed
They try to put me on it a few years ago... I told them where to go... I picked something lighter instead.
It's good that it's changed your life bro... I know how that feels
Unfortunately that doesn't come without a price
When the bill came in the post for me, I wish I was anyone but me
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Am I the only retard who does not know what "benzos" are?
:D
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Am I the only retard who does not know what "benzos" are?
No add me to the list.
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Thanks Wes.
I have seen the Dark side of Valium & never want to back. Did it for years. I have the T-shirt & that's enough for me.
Some-one I knew once said that it was like looking at life through a net curtain & you do not see this untill you get clean & the curtain is lifted.
After x6 weeks of Zero Valium (once tapered down) I felt the curtain start to life.
I still like a little 50mg Pentazocine IV every now & then as a treat, but not enough to get a habit or fuck my main vien up.
I will leave it alone for months & the have a little go with some nice Minali cream (Indian primo garde Hash) & some good tunes, then leave it alone again.
As said "show her respect, or leave her alone"
Not for the weak willed.
PT
I hear ya`,my ex wife abused the shit out of V`s and booze......she had a hell of a time trying to kick the valium.
If you get a chance,try to find an old movie titled,"I`m Dancing As Fast As I Can",it`s about a woman who gets hooked on V`s and how she came off.........a fucking nighmare of a film.
These days I do a few 5 mgs. if I`m stressed or can`t sleep,but I don`t abuse them...........years ago I would do 10- 10 mgs.and go out drinking!!
Another poster talked about effexor,took it for a short time but stopped as it did jackshit for me.
Right now taking Cymbalta but it`s not working great...........been on lots of different meds for depression and anxiety for years now.
The best one I took that had me feeling pretty stable as far as depression goes,was Serzone but after years of taking it at the highest recvommended dose,they informed me that it killed a few people due to damaging their livers.................. .with my past history of booze and drugs,I got off that shit right away,but it worked wonders for my depression. :(
Sorry about the rambling post.........my coffee is kicking in! ;D
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anxiety can run in your family like it does mine. alot of people on my moms side have anxiety issues. I get to hyped up and need something to calm me down. I get overwhelmed real easy and their is nothing better for anxiety and anxiety attacks than xanax. If you dont ned xanax it will just make you tired and pass out. if you have real anxiety you usually are a real aggressive hyped up person and just a few xanax pills will get you down to a normal level to where you can funtion and without having other things running through your mind. also when someone with anxiety tries to sleep their brain keeps running . they keep on thinking about something. usually if you have alot of problems you will think about them when you are trying to sleep. and if you take a few xanax you can sleep without thinking of these distractions. I had to worry about things alot when I was younger i wasn't born with a silv er spoon in my mouth and my mom had troiuble feeding us kids and paying rent its stressful when you dont know if your going to have a place to live next month and your 10 years old and can't do shit about it. usually kids like this gte ahead in life early working early , selling dope whatever they can do to make money to help their family. I make it so my mom dosn't have to worry I kick down 5k stacksof cash every few months. make sure she dosn't have to worry. when your already born with anxiety tendancys and problems like paying bills and rent come up and your to young to help out it makes your anxiety worse when you get older.thats why people in those positions usually get into working hard and hustling drugs for money orhustling howvere they can to mke alot of money to ease the worries and stress in their lifes alot of stress comes from money issues. even if you get older and have alot of money you always want more. and you tend to have a mind that constantly worries so in this siuation xanax is a great choice.
I agree 100% and I am all for medication if it helps you live a functional happy life. People who say that mental illness doesn't exist are just ignorant and stupid.
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I agree 100% and I am all for medication if it helps you live a functional happy life. People who say that mental illness doesn't exist are just ignorant and stupid.
Or their names are Tom Cruise or Uberkunt !! ;D
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Or their names are Tom Cruise or Uberkunt !! ;D
Yes, most likely. Tom Cruise is a dumb fuck who needs to get with the real world. He is a great actor but this scientology bullshit is dangerous.
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Hi, well done.
I was addicted to Zoplicon for about 5 Years. I took up tu 8 times of the prescribed doses and spent quiet alot of money for that shit.
Without them I had no chance of falling asleep in the night and trembled like a leaf in the wind. I had all the side effects like amnesia.
I sometimes woke up and wondered what went on the previous night, cause I had forgotten everything from the point when I took the pills.
I spent 3 shitty month coming of the pills and literally went through hell and barely ever slept an hour at a time. Now I am clean since about 3 Years and I will never ever touch any sleeping pill ever again, cause I still am afraid to get addicted again.
If I ruin my body, then only with nice performance enhancing muscle building drugs ;)
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I have to respectfully disagree with you on that statement to the extreme.
I work with these drugs for a living.
where did you get your medical degree from?
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mental illnesses dont exist. There are just people who ve been loved enough, and others who werent. "Illnesses" develop because of sins. Both physical and mental ones.
All you need to build faith is someone who has it and will share it with you. As these "angels", messengers of God are very rare nowadays, you can directly consult God by reading the Bible and start conversing with him everyday until you start purifying yourself.
He left it for us, His creatures, so we can live happy lives accomplishing his mission and using our body and soul in this endeavour, which will give a meaning to our lives when others who worship themselves, material goods, sex and money as their gods will lose the will to live.
We are preparing the kingdom of God on earth.
Ah, I see....you don't masturbate. This explains much...
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where did you get your medical degree from?
From Your mom
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From Your mom
exactly what i thought, so do you care to explain why your uneducated ass knows more than an MD?
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^^^you on xanax?
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^^^you on xanax?
no but i know people who are and they use it correctly and it has helped them tremendously.
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I have to respectfully disagree with you on that statement to the extreme.
I work with these drugs for a living.
You sell crack too, Spirelli ?
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no but i know people who are and they use it correctly and it has helped them tremendously.
I can't disagree that zanax helps a lot of people but there's also a ton of people that end up having problems with benzos. Just cause doctors prescribe certain meds doesn't mean that they are 100% side effect free. Not only drug fiends have had negative consequences from them.
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I can't disagree that zanax helps a lot of people but there's also a ton of people that end up having problems with benzos. Just cause doctors prescribe certain meds doesn't mean that they are 100% side effect free. Not only drug fiends have had negative consequences from them.
hate to break it to you but EVERY medicine has side effects, blood pressure meds, cholesterol lowering meds, arthritis meds, etc., but these can be minimized by taking the CORRECT dose ESPECIALLY the benzodiazpans and the opiate based pain killers, these are POWERFUL drugs and will chew you up and spit you out in no time if abused.
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hate to break it to you but EVERY medicine has side effects, blood pressure meds, cholesterol lowering meds, arthritis meds, etc., but these can be minimized by taking the CORRECT dose ESPECIALLY the benzodiazpans and the opiate based pain killers, these are POWERFUL drugs and will chew you up and spit you out in no time if abused.
Agree but for some reason you fail to see that withdrawal symptoms can and do happen even at therapeutic doses.
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Agree but for some reason you fail to see that withdrawal symptoms can and do happen even at therapeutic doses.
im not disagreeing with you there but like i said when theyre taken on a NEED basis and dropped after that the side effects and withdrawal can be minimized to almost nothing, if youre having side effects from one particualr medication the patient and doctor should work together to find one that doesnt give you problems.
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your body builds absolutely no "tolerance" to Xanax when its taken as prescribed, your friend was a drug addict and he swallowed as many pills as he could get, .05 to 1mg. a day will hurt NO ONE, its when the weak scumbag drug addict take 20mg. and drink alcohol on top of it, thats when the problems arise.
not true at all, tolerance is a phenomenon of addiction, it is the downregulation of receptors for which the drug targets. Tolerance is the main issue with benzos and their anxiolysis, people have to keep upping the dose. However, at the dosages you mentioned serious issues like seizure and death are non-existent.
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mental illnesses dont exist. There are just people who ve been loved enough, and others who werent. "Illnesses" develop because of sins. Both physical and mental ones.
All you need to build faith is someone who has it and will share it with you. As these "angels", messengers of God are very rare nowadays, you can directly consult God by reading the Bible and start conversing with him everyday until you start purifying yourself.
He left it for us, His creatures, so we can live happy lives accomplishing his mission and using our body and soul in this endeavour, which will give a meaning to our lives when others who worship themselves, material goods, sex and money as their gods will lose the will to live.
We are preparing the kingdom of God on earth.
Mental illness do exist. Just because you yourself dont have a mental illness or dont know anyone who does, doesnt mean mental illness' arent real. I truly believe that Religion causes mental illness. Makes you forever have the mental development of a child. Religion is mindpoisoning/brain washing garbage, especially catholicism.
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im not disagreeing with you there but like i said when theyre taken on a NEED basis and dropped after that the side effects and withdrawal can be minimized to almost nothing, if youre having side effects from one particualr medication the patient and doctor should work together to find one that doesnt give you problems.
Yeah, I mean these drugs weren't created for junkies..lol. Every drug treatment should be under the supervision of an md cause people aren't well educated as to what and how to take as seen from quickerblade's neighbour. There's a reason why you don't take over a certain amount and had a doc been prescribing him a large quantity he would no longer have his medical license...
Most people don't know that certain meds can cause withdrawals but your md does(if theres any competence at all on their part) and he or she will likely switch you from a short acting drug to one with a long half life. From effexor to fluoxetine for example. But most likely I think a psychiatrist would know more cause I've heard of some idiot stories from people's general practitioners.
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im not disagreeing with you there but like i said when theyre taken on a NEED basis and dropped after that the side effects and withdrawal can be minimized to almost nothing, if youre having side effects from one particualr medication the patient and doctor should work together to find one that doesnt give you problems.
as needed ie 2-3 times per week and yes no problems will occur. That however does depend on the benzodiazepine, something like clonazepam or diazepam due to the long half life would induce addiction.
You are missing the distinction between psychological addiction and dependence. Dependence can occur without the latter and it will happen no matter what if you take these drugs for prolonged periods, no doubt about it.
it was determined that time not dose regulates addiction to benzos. no matter the dosage it is the length of time you have been taking them which determines the withdrawal. There is only so much downregulation that can occur. The difference between 5 mg of lorazepam for a year and 10mgs will be negligible except for the taper protocol.
to anyone suggesting cold turkey you are giving out bad advice. Perhaps you should read about PAWS and how shitty it is. I have it or had it.
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Medications such as BENZOS/Anti-anxiety medications are ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEVERE ANXIETY FROM AN " ANXIETY DISORDER " or from other Mental illness'/disorders.
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Anxiety disorders are not treated with benzodiazepines, but with Cognitive behavourial therapy, sometimes in combination with an SSRI or a TCA. A new upcoming field is Deep brain stimylation, especially when there's a compulsive aspect as well...
says Dr Dutch
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Anxiety disorders are not treated with benzodiazepines, but with Cognitive behavourial therapy, sometimes in combination with an SSRI or a TCA. A new upcoming field is Deep brain stimylation, especially when there's a compulsive aspect as well...
says Dr Dutch
True. I myself take an SSRI AND a TCA/SARI (TRAZODONE)- WORKS EXTREMELY WELL FOR ME. In a nutshell, the combinaton of MEDICATION AND EXPOSURE THERAPY (IF NEEDED) with the use of COGNITIVE BEHAVORIAL THERAPY. And yes, i read about DEEP BRAIN STIMULATION, then theres also ECT, light therapy for Seasonal affective disorder, and my opinion it should be used for EXTREME DEPRESSION (major depression) as well, which it might be already used for......Ill be starting light therapy sometime soon.
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I was prescribed efexor xl and take them everyday at 150mg and they have changed my life for the better, id be in jail otherwise
That's something completely different from a benzo, sir...
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True. I myself take an SSRI AND a TCA/SARI (TRAZODONE)- WORKS EXTREMELY WELL FOR ME. In a nutshell, the combinaton of MEDICATION AND EXPOSURE THERAPY (IF NEEDED) with the use of COGNITIVE BEHAVORIAL THERAPY. And yes, i read about DEEP BRAIN STIMULATION, then theres also ECT, light therapy for Seasonal affective disorder, and my opinion it should be used for EXTREME DEPRESSION (major depression) as well, which it might be already used for......Ill be starting light therapy sometime soon.
In my opinion ECT should be used much more, and much sooner in many cases. The decrease of ECT use is directly related to the Cuckoo's nest film with Jack Nickolson in th 70s. I've seen people who were extremely depressed for years (and I mean just lying on the bed, suicide attempts and stuff, slowly dying..) literally be reborn after a dozen ECT session. Plus it's very safe, quite the contrary from what many people believe.
serious stuff by Dr Dutch
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deep brain stimulation, lolol, isn't this where they crack your skull open and insert electrodes?
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deep brain stimulation, lolol, isn't this where they open your head up and insert electrodes?
Exactly.
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anxiety can run in your family like it does mine. alot of people on my moms side have anxiety issues. I get to hyped up and need something to calm me down. I get overwhelmed real easy and their is nothing better for anxiety and anxiety attacks than xanax. If you dont ned xanax it will just make you tired and pass out. if you have real anxiety you usually are a real aggressive hyped up person and just a few xanax pills will get you down to a normal level to where you can funtion and without having other things running through your mind. also when someone with anxiety tries to sleep their brain keeps running . they keep on thinking about something. usually if you have alot of problems you will think about them when you are trying to sleep. and if you take a few xanax you can sleep without thinking of these distractions. I had to worry about things alot when I was younger i wasn't born with a silv er spoon in my mouth and my mom had troiuble feeding us kids and paying rent its stressful when you dont know if your going to have a place to live next month and your 10 years old and can't do shit about it. usually kids like this gte ahead in life early working early , selling dope whatever they can do to make money to help their family. I make it so my mom dosn't have to worry I kick down 5k stacksof cash every few months. make sure she dosn't have to worry. when your already born with anxiety tendancys and problems like paying bills and rent come up and your to young to help out it makes your anxiety worse when you get older.thats why people in those positions usually get into working hard and hustling drugs for money orhustling howvere they can to mke alot of money to ease the worries and stress in their lifes alot of stress comes from money issues. even if you get older and have alot of money you always want more. and you tend to have a mind that constantly worries so in this siuation xanax is a great choice.
It is true that meds have been a godsend for many people, keeping them from being institutionalized as they might have been in times past. However, for loads of people these same drugs are merely a crutch they use instead of learning to cope with life. Almost everyone experiences anxiety at some point in their lives. Some people just deal with it. There probably isn't a person on this earth who hasn't been depressed at some point in time. Occasional depression is normal, especially when there is reason for it. Not everyone who is depressed needs meds to counter these feelings.
It seems more common today for folks to look for quick fixes by using drugs....legal or otherwise. When one is ill, it takes time to heal. Not everyone needs these drugs to get better.
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It is true that meds have been a godsend for many people, keeping them from being institutionalized as they might have been in times past. However, for loads of people these same drugs are merely a crutch they use instead of learning to cope with life. Almost everyone experiences anxiety at some point in their lives. Some people just deal with it. There probably isn't a person on this earth who hasn't been depressed at some point in time. Occasional depression is normal, especially when there is reason for it. Not everyone who is depressed needs meds to counter these feelings.
It seems more common today for folks to look for quick fixes by using drugs....legal or otherwise. When one is ill, it takes time to heal. Not everyone needs these drugs to get better.
Very true sir. Anxiety is not the same as an Anxiety Disorder. And sorrow/sadness isn't the same as a depression...
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True. I myself take an SSRI AND a TCA/SARI (TRAZODONE)- WORKS EXTREMELY WELL FOR ME. In a nutshell, the combinaton of MEDICATION AND EXPOSURE THERAPY (IF NEEDED) with the use of COGNITIVE BEHAVORIAL THERAPY. And yes, i read about DEEP BRAIN STIMULATION, then theres also ECT, light therapy for Seasonal affective disorder, and my opinion it should be used for EXTREME DEPRESSION (major depression) as well, which it might be already used for......Ill be starting light therapy sometime soon.
I take a low dose (75 mg) of Trazodone for sleep each night. I've tried a couple of times to wean myself off this because, well, I don't like being dependant on drugs. However, after weeks of interrupted sleep, I give up and go back to taking the Trazodone.
One time I simply ran out of Trazodone and so I stopped taking it cold turkey. I don't reccommend doing this. I was sick as a dog with flu like symptoms for several days. Apparently, this is a common side effect from quitting Trazodone rather than weaning oneself off it slowly.
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Yeah, but that's not withdrawal like addictive drugs. It's just your bod gaining equilibrium again. Trazolan is not addictive like benzo's..
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Very true sir. Anxiety is not the same as an Anxiety Disorder. And sorrow/sadness isn't the same as a depression...
As I see it, the problem is that when some folks are depressed, regardless if there is good reason for them to be so, they often turn to meds to solve the problem. Obviously when someone is clinically and chronically depressed without good reason like a death or loss of somekind, they need help and in those cases medication may do the trick.
Additionally, I know first hand that anti-anxiety and antidepressants can help a person navigate a rough patch in their lives. However, at somepoint, at least this was the case with me, they don't need the meds any longer.
The same is true for anxiety. There are often real solid reasons to explain temporary anxiety. However, when people suffer chronic anxiety, again drugs can help combat this problem.
I also think that when folks suffer these illnesses, they should seek professional help and not just rely on drugs alone to do the trick. Sometimes, there is an underlying problem causing their out of whack feelings.
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Very true sir. Anxiety is not the same as an Anxiety Disorder. And sorrow/sadness isn't the same as a depression...
YEP.........Everyone experiences stressful events in thier lives ( like speaking in public, going on a job interview or a first date). It is NORMAL to be NERVOUS or ANXIOUS (anticipatory anxiety) over these type of things. Most people face them and Move on. The Anxiousness over the situation goes away. An ANXIETY DISORDER does not simply go away. It SEVERLY interferes with a persons daily life and it generally gets Alot worse if it is not treated. The only way you can TRULY have " severe " anxiety is if you have an ANXIETY DISORDER.
Anxiety Disorders:
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
Panic disorder........which can develop into AGORAPHOBIA, which is an anxiety disorder itself.
Obsessive Compulsive disorder
Post traumatic stress disorder
Social phobia ( social anxiety)
Specific Phobias
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For all of the above there's a psychotherapy that can/will work.
And for all of them, psychiatric medication can be of use (supplementary).
Except for specific phobia.....only exposure, no pills will do the trick.
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Yeah, but that's not withdrawal like addictive drugs. It's just your bod gaining equilibrium again. Trazolan is not addictive like benzo's..
You could be right. I wouldn't know because I have avoided addictive drugs. My mom was addicted to Seconal and Demerol from the time I was a teenager on until the day she died. She was also addicted to cigarettes, coffee and of all things Milk of Magnesia. Throughout her life she had issues with alcohol too. Let's just say she had an addictive personality. Anyway, I took this as a warning sign for me to avoid addictive drugs as much as I possibly could....to the point of refusing pain meds after surgery and for injuries.
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For all of the above there's a psychotherapy that can/will work.
And for all of them, psychiatric medication can be of use (supplementary).
Except for specific phobia.....only exposure, no pills will do the trick.
GRADUAL Exposure Therapy.
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GRADUAL Exposure Therapy.
All exposure is gradual these days. In the past they just threw the kid with water fear in the pool. Not nice. If I can give you advice you may PM me, friend.
Sometimes drugs (sedatives) are just necessary to start the expure. I had patients that were to frightened to leave their bedroom. You just can't take 'em and drop them downtown. In the past they did things like that...
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All exposure is gradual these days. In the past they just threw the kid with water fear in the pool. Not nice. If I can give you advice you may PM me, friend.
Sometimes drugs (sedatives) are just necessary to start the expure. I had patients that were to frightened to leave their bedroom. You just can't take 'em and drop them downtown. In the past they did things like that...
AGORAPHOBIA?, If someone truly has SEVERE symptoms, the Combination Of Medication and exposure therapy with the use of COGNITIVE BEHAVORIAL THERAPY is best.
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I mean patient who were stuporous...
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I mean patient who were stuporous...
Ah ok..........Worst case scenerio of AGORAPHOBIA is being confined to ones bedroom. I have panic disorder with agoraphobia, which has gotten ALOT better with meds, etc........
Agoraphobia........Extre me Fear of an Inevitable Impending DOOM/NATURAL DISASTER happening by either leaving your house or by being in Unfamiliar surroundings,enviroments and uncontrolled situations...... Also having the MINDSET of having the Fear of open spaces/having a panic attack out in public is apart of it.
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If I didn`t take the meds that were presribed to me over the years I would have been institutionalized a long fucking time ago.
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If I didn`t take the meds that were presribed to me over the years I would have been institutionalized a long fucking time ago.
Yea.......same here. Been on meds for almost 7 years.
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After 9 years of benzo usage and months of just 1 pill a day i can say that I'VE BEEN BENZO CLEAN for 4 days and tonight i'll be the 4th night. I feel very tired but i'm willing to leave benzos behind for good. Today i even did a light arm workout. So far i do little naps at night. :)
Good for you, man!
I have a script for Ativan (lorazepam), and I freely admit that, if I didn't take 1-2 mg daily, I'd be an anxious wreck. The thought of going off it altogether makes me shiver like a little bitch, so I tip my hat to you for great fortitude.
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Yea.......same here. Been on meds for almost 7 years.
Been over 15 years for me......the rest of the time I self medicated with booze and drugs which certainly added to my problems.
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It's too bad it's still considered so very differently from somatic stuff like high blood pressure and arthritis and you name it. It's a brain disorder just like there's heart and lung and kidney disorders...
I've had patients who were living in hell for many years and could be helped so much in a matter of months, sometimes even weeks. Really too bad man.
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what is going on in this thread you have people citing drugs that cant even spell them let alone talk about there pharmacology and others with these issues listening.
anxiety is one thing, it does not differ from normal anxiety, the thing that defines it as pathological is the magnitude and severity.
people have panic attacks, they don't meet the criteria for in the dsm-iv for panic disorder, the magnitude and interference is not enough.
anxiety disorders have different manifestations. For example social anxiety often responds to stimulants because of the dopaminergic aspect however, someone with GAD would respond terrible to this in most cases as baseline stimulation is already high.
anxiety is a nebulous condition that can be caused by way to many things to say definitive things like take an ssri. Which one? sertraline because it has DRI activity or escitalopram due to its potent serotonergic activity and so on...
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I asked you before, necrosis....are you a professional or just a medicine-for-dummies guy ?
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Saying that mental illness is a brain disorder and can be fixed by something as simple as taking a pill is like saying that a software problem in your computer is a problem with your hard drive and you'll fix it by taking out the poor drive and fiddling with its electronics
in any case, an astonishing simplistic and ignorant view, especially coming from someone who claims he's a doctor.
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I asked you before, necrosis....are you a professional or just a medicine-for-dummies guy ?
professional primary physician.
im not a psychiatrist but i have an interest in it. I focus on it when i study keep up to date with medicine.
my comment wasnt directed at anyone really, i just see some bad advice to people who are irrational due to anxiety perhaps.
benzos for anxiety are bad, some cases sure, but in terms of treatment algorithms its the last option as its well known that tolerance builds,addiction ensues and anxiety usually gets worse especially with quick acting tranqs
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fuck ect
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fuck ect
You are VERY wrong, not kidding sir..
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Saying that mental illness is a brain disorder and can be fixed by something as simple as taking a pill is like saying that a software problem in your computer is a problem with your hard drive and you'll fix it by taking out the poor drive and fiddling with its electronics
in any case, an astonishing simplistic and ignorant view, especially coming from someone who claims he's a doctor.
it is a brain disorder, why are you guys seperating the brain and mind? the psychological symptoms are a product of a sick brain. Thinking patterns (cbt,dialectical etc) change these thinking patterns which appears to change the chemical processes of the brain, however, its truly vice versa because you cannot think before the chemical process begins.
the mind is the brain, the deranged mind (anxious,depressed,psychotic) is a fucked up brain. Of course there are co-morbid issues and extraneous versus intrinsic issues, but more often then not disorders of the brain are chronic, lifelong issues that are due to poor mental hygiene along with propensity to have deranged chemical neurotransmission.
would you claim the same for asthma? that taking a pill cant fix the symptoms of asthma? its the same exact thing, its the psychological aspect that is causing people to make this weird duality which simply does not exist.
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You are VERY wrong, not kidding sir..
Ive heard that ECT or Electric Shock Therapy works EXTREMELY well for some people.
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You are VERY wrong, not kidding sir..
ECT is great, the newer technologies even more so. The stigma it has is ridiculous. However, don't negate the sometimes severe side effects wrt personality and retrograde amnesia which can be persistent. In no way should it be the first choice, but in intractable cases it is often underutilized.
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professional primary physician.
im not a psychiatrist but i have an interest in it. I focus on it when i study keep up to date with medicine.
my comment wasnt directed at anyone really, i just see some bad advice to people who are irrational due to anxiety perhaps.
benzos for anxiety are bad, some cases sure, but in terms of treatment algorithms its the last option as its well known that tolerance builds,addiction ensues and anxiety usually gets worse especially with quick acting tranqs
So do you agree that without treating the underlying problem, perhaps with therapy, drugs are not the total answer to one's problems? I had a friend who suffered from agoraphobia among other illnesses. She responded best to a combination of drugs and therapy. Drugs alone did not help her at all.
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Saying that mental illness is a brain disorder and can be fixed by something as simple as taking a pill is like saying that a software problem in your computer is a problem with your hard drive and you'll fix it by taking out the poor drive and fiddling with its electronics
in any case, an astonishing simplistic and ignorant view, especially coming from someone who claims he's a doctor.
Medications dont fully " cure " mental illness'. They simply LESSEN/DECREASE The Intensity/Severity of symptoms, stabilizes mood, etc........
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So do you agree that without treating the underlying problem, perhaps with therapy, drugs are not the total answer to one's problems? I had a friend who suffered from agoraphobia among other illnesses. She responded best to a combination of drugs and therapy. Drugs alone did not help her at all.
yes 100% agree drugs can cure the symptoms and allow people to live normally but without therapy and behavioural changes it will only last as long as one takes the drug, once removed you will revert.
If you have agoraphobia and dont actively look to emerse yourself in situations then you wont be able to off drugs. Drugs can allow someone to be at ease with exposure and then come to terms with the situation, creating positive reinforcement.
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So do you agree that without treating the underlying problem, perhaps with therapy, drugs are not the total answer to one's problems? I had a friend who suffered from agoraphobia among other illnesses. She responded best to a combination of drugs and therapy. Drugs alone did not help her at all.
The combinations of MEDICATION AND EXPOSURE THERAPY ( IF NEEDED) With the use of Cognitive Behavorial therapy is Best ESPECIALLY if someone has VERY SEVERE Symptoms.
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it is a brain disorder, why are you guys seperating the brain and mind? the psychological symptoms are a product of a sick brain. Thinking patterns (cbt,dialectical etc) change these thinking patterns which appears to change the chemical processes of the brain, however, its truly vice versa because you cannot think before the chemical process begins.
the mind is the brain, the deranged mind (anxious,depressed,psychotic) is a fucked up brain. Of course there are co-morbid issues and extraneous versus intrinsic issues, but more often then not disorders of the brain are chronic, lifelong issues that are due to poor mental hygiene along with propensity to have deranged chemical neurotransmission.
You're referring to the biological model of psychiatry, long promoted from pharmaceutical companies, for which the evidence is spurious... just because a medication increases or decreases serotonin levels does not mean that increased or decreased serotonin levels cause depression.
I believe this is called "correlation does not imply causation". You should already know of this, if you're a physician, as you claim.
Nevertheless a whole industry was built around these medications promoting them as "curing" some sort of chemical imbalance... total HORSESHIT
It sounded easy enough for any moron to understand though (especially doctors), so the concept became a massive success.
would you claim the same for asthma? that taking a pill cant fix the symptoms of asthma? its the same exact thing, its the psychological aspect that is causing people to make this weird duality which simply does not exist.
The human brain is not the same as human lungs. We understand how lungs work which is why medication for asthma will almost always work, but medication for what you called a "brain disorder" is NEVER guaranteed to work, which is why people are switched from medication to medication, or not even switched really, they just keep adding one on top of the other, which causes a condition called "polypharmacy".
Do you know how many people there are out there taking more than two psychiatric meds?
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I would rather take prozac, zoloft, etc.,
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Booze.
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Medications dont fully " cure " mental illness'. They simply LESSEN/DECREASE The Intensity/Severity of symptoms, stabilizes mood, etc........
Exactly... at best they mask the condition. When you're off them, your troubles are likely to start all over again...
unless you spent your time working on your issues with a therapist, persisting and persevering... hard work.
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In my opinion.... MENTAL ILLNESS causes EXTREMELY EXCESSIVE/OVERLY ACTIVE BRAIN ACTIVITY that causes chemical imbalances in the brain.
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Great thread...
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You're referring to the biological model of psychiatry, long promoted from pharmaceutical companies for which the evidence is spurious... just because a medication increases or decreases serotonin levels does not mean that increased or decreased serotonin levels causes depression.
I believe this is called "correlation does not imply causation". You should already know of this, if you're a physician, as you claim.
Nevertheless a whole industry was built around these medications promoting them as "curing" some sort of chemical imbalance... total HORSESHIT
the biological model? what new model better explains the diverse findings, are you attacking monoamine theory or are you just making up stuff? do we use the immaterial model now?
causation is a form of correlation so that statment means little to me, psychiatry was built on reverse engineering and its genius, they had no means of testing objective measures as results are subjective (mood etc). However, thats not true its a fact that organic brain diseases account for the major etiology of almost all chornic illnesses in psychiatry.
ADHD and the PET/MRI/FMRI studies show over and over again polymorphisms in DAT transporters, lower frontal lobe d2 receptor binding affinity etc. schizophrenia shit im not going into it but your wrong. have you ever seen the brain of a deceased schizo? had it in your hand the difference is night and day, the sulci and gyri are all fucked up, it looks like a prolapsed vagina.
also the whole correlation causation thing is stupid, for example say you never knew what dehydration was and gave someone water and they felt better, could you not infer with corroborating evidence that this is true? you act as if receptor actions and patterns haven't been mapped. i know exactly how to reduce your anxiety and while you say its correlational, id ask for another mechanism, until one is provided my position is sound and rests on the evidence.
The human brain is not the same as human lungs. We understand how lungs work which is why medication for asthma will almost always work, but medication for what you called a "brain disorder" is NEVER guaranteed to work, which is why people are switched from medication to medication, or not even switched really, they just keep adding one on top of the other, which causes a condition called "polypharmacy".
Do you know how many people there are out there taking more than two psychiatric meds?
the lungs aren't as complex as the brain, obviously since the brain controls the lungs. but what you outlined is not true, lots of asthma medications do not work or only do in a certain population. By virtue of the brain being more complex we are having a harder time creating medications that are specific. Also, because the brain can be seen as multiple organs (the diencephalon versus the telencephalon for example) if a drug isn't precise you can cause all kinds of other symptoms that make the anxiety worse thus requiring polypharmacy as the understanding while greater then the lungs, is more difficult to understand simply because there is more to know.
also, what medication are you talking about? benzos will reduce anxiety in the vast majority, even more so then a beta agonist reduces bronchospasm. I gaurentee that barbituates will eliminate anxiety everytime if taken in the right dose.
im obviously being a dick, i get your point but its not that simple.
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im absolutely wiped right now, my grammar is horrendous.
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still genius...
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still genius...
now if i could just learn to spell and form basic sentences i would be well off.................. :D
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causation is a form of correlation so that statment means little to me, psychiatry was built on reverse engineering and its genius, they had no means of testing objective measures as results are subjective (mood etc). However, thats not true its a fact that organic brain diseases account for the major etiology of almost all chornic illnesses in psychiatry.
Psychiatry is far from being a science, the fact that it was built as you say "on reverse engineering" (although a crass analogy) is the ultimate proof it. If you ever did reverse engineering on anything you'd know that it doesn't really help understand the program, it's grinding work that is 90% perspiration, 10% inspiration as Thomas Eddison said, which means that most of the time you're fumbling in the dark and your solutions are bound to be inferior to a solution produced from a sound theoretical basis. I'm glad that at least you don't dispute that the biological model of psychiatry is inherently flawed. You're right in what you say: there is no better model currently. But soon enough there will be one, and then what we currently have will look as crass and primitive as the lobotomisation of the 1940s looks to us today.
ADHD and the PET/MRI/FMRI studies show over and over again polymorphisms in DAT transporters, lower frontal lobe d2 receptor binding affinity etc. schizophrenia shit im not going into it but your wrong. have you ever seen the brain of a deceased schizo? had it in your hand the difference is night and day, the sulci and gyri are all fucked up, it looks like a prolapsed vagina.
You're choosing extreme examples, i.e. schizophrenia, whereas before you asserted that ALL mental illnesses are brain diseases, now you pick schizophrenia, something that undoubtedly has organic origins.
Let me ask you something more specific? Are panic attacks also solely of organic origin? If so, which part of the brain is it that is malfunctioning, and can you quote any peer-reviewed studies of a reputed journal that assert so?
the lungs aren't as complex as the brain, obviously since the brain controls the lungs. but what you outlined is not true, lots of asthma medications do not work or only do in a certain population. By virtue of the brain being more complex we are having a harder time creating medications that are specific. Also, because the brain can be seen as multiple organs (the diencephalon versus the telencephalon for example) if a drug isn't precise you can cause all kinds of other symptoms that make the anxiety worse thus requiring polypharmacy as the understanding while greater then the lungs, is more difficult to understand simply because there is more to know.
See... you're coming along to my words. Polypharmacy- side effects upon side effects... causing one to wonder- weren't they better off living with their mental condition in the first place?
also, what medication are you talking about? benzos will reduce anxiety in the vast majority, even more so then a beta agonist reduces bronchospasm. I gaurentee that barbituates will eliminate anxiety everytime if taken in the right dose.
I'm talking about SSRIs, obviously, I used the serotonin paradigm. SSRIS and SNRIS are never guaranteed to work. Wes said that he tried Effexor, one of the most POTENT drugs in existence and it did fuck all for him, what does that tell you? It's the same with antipsychotics and in fact with the MAJORITY of psychiatric drugs.
Again, don't pick only those examples that validate your arguments. You totally miss the big picture. I detect a sense of bias in you, which is a dangerous thing in a doctor.
Did you know that for the last few years (ever since the FDA published a literature review of SSRIs showing that they are little better than placebos, in 2007) the pharmaceutical industry has been quietly but effectively pushing for anti-psychotics to be prescribed in the place of anti-depressants?
Have you ever heard of Seroquel and for what it's being prescribed nowadays?
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Psychiatry is far from being a science, the fact that it was built as you say "on reverse engineering" (although a crass analogy) is the ultimate proof it. If you ever did reverse engineering on anything you'd know that it doesn't really help understand the program, it's grinding work that is 90% perspiration, 10% inspiration as Thomas Eddison said, which means that most of the time you're fumbling in the dark and your solutions are bound to be inferior to a solution produced from a sound theoretical basis. I'm glad that at least you don't dispute that the biological model of psychiatry is inherently flawed. You're right in what you say: there is no better model currently. But soon enough there will be one, and then what we currently have will look as crass and primitive as the lobotomisation of the 1940s looks to us today.
You're choosing extreme examples, i.e. schizophrenia, whereas before you asserted that ALL mental illnesses are brain diseases, now you pick schizophrenia, something that undoubtedly has organic origins.
Let me ask you something more specific? Are panic attacks also solely of organic origin? If so, which part of the brain is it that is malfunctioning, and can you quote any peer-reviewed studies of a reputed journal that assert so?
See... you're coming along to my words. Polypharmacy- side effects upon side effects... causing one to wonder- weren't they better off living with their mental condition in the first place?
I'm talking about SSRIs, obviously, I used the serotonin paradigm.
Did you know that for the last few years (ever since the FDA published a literature review of SSRIs showing that they are little better than placebos, in 2007) the pharmaceutical industry has been quietly but effectively pushing for anti-psychotics to be prescribed in the place of anti-depressants?
Have you ever heard of Seroquel and for what it's being prescribed nowadays?
ya ive heard of everything you are saying they are common arguments brought against a great scope of medicine. What is unscientific about reverse engineering again? it was the catalyst for discovering what the different monoamines do. Hey this drug helps anxiety, how does it do that, well according to this in vitro study they bind (benzos) to the bzd receptors on the Gaba complex increasing cl- influx hyperpolarizing the cells making the threshold for action potentials difficult to elicit. Bam reverse engineering gives us insight into what may be going on, more objective measures have taken its place but pretty much all medicine was done like this. Something works, why does it work, how does it work and so forth, thats science at its core, observation/testing repeat, thats it.
well i was referring to chronic illness and i mentioned the difference between extrinsic versus organic issues so im justified logically in my example.
Panic attacks are physiological, how couldnt they be ALL THAT EXISTS IS PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS. the mind is a process not a thing, it is like migration in geese, geese are said to migrate yet migration isn't tangible, has no value and is a product of physical things (ie birds flying in a direction) the mind is the same thing. It is simply the processes of neuronal firing in particular areas nothing more.
polypharmacy is a product of poor drug usage and effect size, it exists in all branches of medicine. Lets stay with asthma or atopy. These people take corticosteriods (inhaled usually) and use beta agonists (long or short) to prevent attacks or to halt an attack. Thats two drugs already, however this sometimes does not control the inflammation and a leukotriene inhibitor like monteleukast is added. Then these people often suffer from allergies and dermatological things like allergic dermatitis, this can lead to h1 antagonists, topical steriods etc..
this happens because our drugs aren't good enough yet, doctors are incompetant and patients wont do anything to help themselves. Its a perfect analogy to mental health, you say drugs dont cure anything in psychiatry without the person going to therapy, exercising etc the same is true for asthma and allergy sufferers. Medications dont cure anything then are palliative by nature.
by the way the study was of unpublished studies mixed with published, look at the methodology and the fact that some trials were fucked up its no wonder they show little effect. Im not a fan of them either but they are usually safe (serotonin syndrome is the only really serious side, well suicide too lol) and have ample evidence to show they work.
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If anti-physcotics are being recommended instead of SSRIs ( anti-depressants) because probably have shown too be effective in treating EXTREME DEPRESSION ( MAJOR DEPRESSION) I have MAJOR DEPRESSION and have been on an anti-physcotic for only 2 months, and depression has gotten alot better. If youve seen that commerical with ABILIFY which is an anti-physcotic, saying that it can be added to an SSRI ( antidepressant) med simply because combining the two are shown to be EFFECTIVE in Dramatically Decreasing the severity of the depression.
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ADHD and the PET/MRI/FMRI studies show over and over again polymorphisms in DAT transporters, lower frontal lobe d2 receptor binding affinity etc. schizophrenia shit im not going into it but your wrong. have you ever seen the brain of a deceased schizo? had it in your hand the difference is night and day, the sulci and gyri are all fucked up, it looks like a prolapsed vagina.
This doesn't prove anything
There exists a study from a couple of years ago where they looked at MRIs of 2000 (!!) individuals with bipolar disorder?
Do you know how many common features they found in their brains?
Nowhere near enough to reach any conclusions...
Hope this helps.
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If anti-physcotics are being recommended instead of SSRIs ( anti-depressants) because probably have shown too be effective in treating EXTREME DEPRESSION ( MAJOR DEPRESSION) I have MAJOR DEPRESSION and have been on an anti-physcotic for only 2 months, and depression has gotten alot better. If youve seen that commerical with ABILIFY which is an anti-physcotic, saying that it can be added to an SSRI ( antidepressant) med simply because combining the two are shown to be EFFECTIVE in Dramatically Decreasing the severity of the depression.
yes im unaware of any anti-psychotic being used for depression as a first line treatment if so the doctor should be fired as permenant movement disorders can occur like tardive dyskinesia
when you add apiprazole (abilify) to an sri it changes the pharmacology greatly, i assume you are on a low dose also, which actually shows some properties of a stimulant.
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This doesn't prove anything
There exists a study from a couple of years ago where they looked at MRIs of 2000 (!!) individuals with bipolar disorder?
Do you know how many common features they found in their brains?
Nowhere near enough to reach any conclusions...
Hope this helps.
yes it does, so the fact that one study almost 11 years ago was unable to form a cogent conclusion means that there isn't or cant be an understanding.
Also, adhd differs so greatly from bipolar that im not sure what point your making. You are suggesting we dont know enough yet you keep claiming that we can't know these things, that we should give up i guess?
i could flood this thread with studies if you like.
chronic illness with an organic etiology
so things like
adhd
bipolar1 and2
GAD
not things like depression which does relapse and remit but can be acute in nature and is more of a state then baseline. Although hippocampal neuronal apoptosis has been observed over and over.
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This doesn't prove anything
There exists a study from a couple of years ago where they looked at MRIs of 2000 (!!) individuals with bipolar disorder?
Do you know how many common features they found in their brains?
Nowhere near enough to reach any conclusions...
Hope this helps.
It did help by the way,your post that is. I realize im wasting my time arguing with you as your not interested in reaching a conclusion just reiterating your point.
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people suffer of traumas caused by caregivers who betrayed their trust when they were very fragile, young. They dont understand most of the time why people who were suposed to love them after giving birth to them, betrayed em, harmed them psychologycally, physically, sexually. They spend the rest of their life wondering why they ve been hurt when they were innocent, and had no power to stop their aggressors. Most of the time they reproduce what happend to them subconsciously which worsens even more their suffering. Nobody cares, nobody is going to take the time to try to understand what s going on, especially nowadays in our societies where families are blown up from the inside because God, Fathers, have been abandonned, ans as a result the family and society itself is collapsing. When you cant even trust your own parents, grandparents, bortherhood, when you ve been hurt by them, you cant trust others outside of the family later. It's a vicious circle, and this is the origin of "mental illnesses". A lack of love, a lack of understanding, being powerless, not listened to by anyone, because we abandonned God and significant relationships with first our family members, and then with others in general. All these consequences are cumulative.
People who are on drugs need drugs because they cant find someone to listen to them, because they re hopeless, broken inside, and they re constantly meeting people who are broken inside and who keep hurting each others again and again. This is our societies nowadays.
This is the result of abandonning God. It is still possible to find God, when all other worthless humans only care about themselves and when your own caregivers attempted to destroy you reproducing most of the time what their own parents did to them. It's a chain reaction just like everything else. But you have to understand the real roots, origins of the problems, and not focus on their consequences, or you ll never stop the problem at its origin. It's the origin that has to be fought, and the origin of all human sufferings is the abandonning of God.
People attempt to find a meaning to their existences in sex, money, material goods, bad addictions -do not confuse good addictions with bad addictions as everything is addiction in itself- because they abandonned God and msotly reproducing what their own parents were doing. Parents who believe in God teach their sons and aughter sto believe in God. Atheists think they are God themselves, or that their addictions are their gods. They need more and more bad addictions, more and more drugs, because they abandonned God, and it doesnt even work, they re even more desperate. Because they re not looking where they should be looking.
On a side note, science without faith is not science. It is power driven destruction as it has been proven several times in human history. Real science, real revelations from God to some chosen humans is suposed to be used positively for the benefit of all of God's creatures.
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stick to the science here and leave the jesus stuff out...
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stick to the science here and leave the jesus stuff out...
You ignorant moron obviously never opened history books. Real scientists are faithful individuals. Our modern societies are collapsing and a bad use of science is made because God has been abandonned you clown. God reveals good things to some chosen humans because they are faithful, but the bad use made of what these people discover is not their fault, it's because of evil men.
Science never went so far in the benefit of all mankind but when discoverers were still believers. The best , most contributing scientists in the history of mankind are faithful. Educate yourself and stop making a fool of yourself.
Science cannot be separated from faith.
Everything that pretends to be science but is not deeply motivated by faith is not science.
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people suffer of traumas caused by caregivers who betrayed their trust when they were very fragile, young. They dont understand most of the time why people who were suposed to love them after giving birth to them, betrayed em, harmed them psychologycally, physically, sexually. They spend the rest of their life wondering why they ve been hurt when they were innocent, and had no power to stop their aggressors. Most of the time they reproduce what happend to them subconsciously which worsens even more their suffering. Nobody cares, nobody is going to take the time to try to understand what s going on, especially nowadays in our societies where families are blown up from the inside because God, Fathers, have been abandonned, ans as a result the family and society itself is collapsing. When you cant even trust your own parents, grandparents, bortherhood, when you ve been hurt by them, you cant trust others outside of the family later. It's a vicious circle, and this is the origin of "mental illnesses". A lack of love, a lack of understanding, being powerless, not listened to by anyone, because we abandonned God and significant relationships with first our family members, and then with others in general. All these consequences are cumulative.
People who are on drugs need drugs because they cant find someone to listen to them, because they re hopeless, broken inside, and they re constantly meeting people who are broken inside and who keep hurting each others again and again. This is our societies nowadays.
This is the result of abandonning God. It is still possible to find God, when all other worthless humans only care about themselves and when your own caregivers attempted to destroy you reproducing most of the time what their own parents did to them. It's a chain reaction just like everything else. But you have to understand the real roots, origins of the problems, and not focus on their consequences, or you ll never stop the problem at its origin. It's the origin that has to be fought, and the origin of all human sufferings is the abandonning of God.
On a side note, science without faith is not science. It is power driven destruction as it has been proven several times in human history. Real science, real revelations from God to some chosen humans is suposed to be used positively for the benefit of all of God's creatures.
u raise a good point but i think if you take your comments to their logical conclusion it isn't the father or the lack of social support but gods fault. I mean he knew what he was doing when he created us, he created disease or the potential for it via logical extension if he created everything. Thus, the goal in medicine is always to find the causative agent or etiology, in all cases it appears its gods fault, so we should find a way to stop this fucker from making more sick fucks for me to treat. That bitch has given me more referrals then all the doctors i know combined, people say big pharma is evil, shit look at jesus dude must giggle when someone says congenital, they should call it jesus induced sickness.
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You ignorant moron obviously never opened history books. Real scientists are faithful individuals. Our modern societies are collapsing and a bad use of science is made because God has been abandonned you clown. God reveals good things to some chosen humans because they are faithful, but the bad use made of what these people discover is not their fault, it's because of evil men.
Science never went so far in the benefit of all mankind but when discoverers were still believers. The best , most contributing scientists in the history of mankind are faithful. Educate yourself and stop making a fool of yourself.
Science cannot be separated from faith.
Everything that pretends to be science but is not deeply motivated by faith is not science.
you write to much to troll well.
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ya ive heard of everything you are saying they are common arguments brought against a great scope of medicine. What is unscientific about reverse engineering again? it was the catalyst for discovering what the different monoamines do. Hey this drug helps anxiety, how does it do that, well according to this in vitro study they bind (benzos) to the bzd receptors on the Gaba complex increasing cl- influx hyperpolarizing the cells making the threshold for action potentials difficult to elicit. Bam reverse engineering gives us insight into what may be going on, more objective measures have taken its place but pretty much all medicine was done like this. Something works, why does it work, how does it work and so forth, thats science at its core, observation/testing repeat, thats it.
lolol
If you can't perceive how reverse engineering is unscientific then you really need to crack the books and start reading about how the scientific method works dude...
A theory is supposed to be formulated and its results are supposed to be reproduced by ANYONE, ANYWHERE in the world, under the exact same conditions.
Not the same as Prozac might work in some patients, but not in others, well then let's add Zoloft to the second group, see what happens.
well i was referring to chronic illness and i mentioned the difference between extrinsic versus organic issues so im justified logically in my example.
Panic attacks are physiological, how couldnt they be ALL THAT EXISTS IS PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS. the mind is a process not a thing, it is like migration in geese, geese are said to migrate yet migration isn't tangible, has no value and is a product of physical things (ie birds flying in a direction) the mind is the same thing. It is simply the processes of neuronal firing in particular areas nothing more.
polypharmacy is a product of poor drug usage and effect size, it exists in all branches of medicine. Lets stay with asthma or atopy. These people take corticosteriods (inhaled usually) and use beta agonists (long or short) to prevent attacks or to halt an attack. Thats two drugs already, however this sometimes does not control the inflammation and a leukotriene inhibitor like monteleukast is added. Then these people often suffer from allergies and dermatological things like allergic dermatitis, this can lead to h1 antagonists, topical steriods etc..
You're going in circles bro...
Of course the mind arises from natural processes, my point was (have you been reading what I wrote, at all?) that the current models for those processes are flawed and thusly they produce flawed treatments.
this happens because our drugs aren't good enough yet, doctors are incompetant and patients wont do anything to help themselves. Its a perfect analogy to mental health, you say drugs dont cure anything in psychiatry without the person going to therapy, exercising etc the same is true for asthma and allergy sufferers. Medications dont cure anything then are palliative by nature.
That was closer to my points, however you're ignoring the role pharmaceutical industries play in all this, and especially their relationship with academic psychiatry... in any case, you're starting to generalise again... very worrying.
by the way the study was of unpublished studies mixed with published, look at the methodology and the fact that some trials were fucked up its no wonder they show little effect. Im not a fan of them either but they are usually safe (serotonin syndrome is the only really serious side, well suicide too lol) and have ample evidence to show they work.
The conclusions from the FDA study are valid. The trial studies which showed that Seroxat works were also flawed and those which showed that the drug SIGNIFICANTLY raised suicide risks in teenagers were NOT released.
However, the drug was approved for use in treatment.
When kids started killing themselves and people started having severe problems from quitting the drug, evidence started coming to light.
The drug was still not withdrawn... Painkillers that were shown to cause heart attacks were withdrawn... but why those SSRI's weren't? (some homework for you, mate)
SSRIS work... lolol another generalisation... there also exists ample evidence that shows they fuck people up
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It did help by the way,your post that is. I realize im wasting my time arguing with you as your not interested in reaching a conclusion just reiterating your point.
You're not wasting your time (don't pussy out :P)
If I wasn't interesting in hearing you out bro, I would have started trolling you, instead. Notice that I haven't attacked you personally... only your points. That should tell you something.
I'm happy we had this discussion, alas I have to go, early start tomorrow.
Hit a PR on the deadlift today, need to sleep and grow, I'm sure you understand
Always glad to find an intelligent GetBigger ;)
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Drug addicts, of all sorts, are the result of a weak mind imo.
a weak mind results of abuses, loss of faith, confidence, because they were badly raised, educated, and loved.
You can cure all illnesses with love. But to be able to understand love, you have to have Faith in God, who is life itself.
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people suffer of traumas caused by caregivers who betrayed their trust when they were very fragile, young. They dont understand most of the time why people who were suposed to love them after giving birth to them, betrayed em, harmed them psychologycally, physically, sexually. They spend the rest of their life wondering why they ve been hurt when they were innocent, and had no power to stop their aggressors. Most of the time they reproduce what happend to them subconsciously which worsens even more their suffering. Nobody cares, nobody is going to take the time to try to understand what s going on, especially nowadays in our societies where families are blown up from the inside because God, Fathers, have been abandonned, ans as a result the family and society itself is collapsing. When you cant even trust your own parents, grandparents, bortherhood, when you ve been hurt by them, you cant trust others outside of the family later. It's a vicious circle, and this is the origin of "mental illnesses". A lack of love, a lack of understanding, being powerless, not listened to by anyone, because we abandonned God and significant relationships with first our family members, and then with others in general. All these consequences are cumulative.
People who are on drugs need drugs because they cant find someone to listen to them, because they re hopeless, broken inside, and they re constantly meeting people who are broken inside and who keep hurting each others again and again. This is our societies nowadays.
This is the result of abandonning God. It is still possible to find God, when all other worthless humans only care about themselves and when your own caregivers attempted to destroy you reproducing most of the time what their own parents did to them. It's a chain reaction just like everything else. But you have to understand the real roots, origins of the problems, and not focus on their consequences, or you ll never stop the problem at its origin. It's the origin that has to be fought, and the origin of all human sufferings is the abandonning of God.
People attempt to find a meaning to their existences in sex, money, material goods, bad addictions -do not confuse good addictions with bad addictions as everything is addiction in itself- because they abandonned God and msotly reproducing what their own parents were doing. Parents who believe in God teach their sons and aughter sto believe in God. Atheists think they are God themselves, or that their addictions are their gods. They need more and more bad addictions, more and more drugs, because they abandonned God, and it doesnt even work, they re even more desperate. Because they re not looking where they should be looking.
On a side note, science without faith is not science. It is power driven destruction as it has been proven several times in human history. Real science, real revelations from God to some chosen humans is suposed to be used positively for the benefit of all of God's creatures.
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Thank God uberkunt came in to save the thread with his logic!!
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So what the hell happened op??
you still alive :-\
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u raise a good point but i think if you take your comments to their logical conclusion it isn't the father or the lack of social support but gods fault. I mean he knew what he was doing when he created us, he created disease or the potential for it via logical extension if he created everything. Thus, the goal in medicine is always to find the causative agent or etiology, in all cases it appears its gods fault, so we should find a way to stop this fucker from making more sick fucks for me to treat. That bitch has given me more referrals then all the doctors i know combined, people say big pharma is evil, shit look at jesus dude must giggle when someone says congenital, they should call it jesus induced sickness.
lol, fucking awesome. ;D
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a weak mind results of abuses, loss of faith, confidence, because they were badly raised, educated, and loved.
You can cure all illnesses with love. But to be able to understand love, you have to have Faith in God, who is life itself.
I believe that.
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Remind me never to try to debate with Necrosis
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Uberman, pray we never meet cause if we do, I have every intention on fucking your world up in the name of Jesus.
I rebuke you in the name of Jesus, white devil.
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Uberman, pray we never meet cause if we do, I have every intention on fucking your world up in the name of Jesus.
I rebuke you in the name of Jesus, white devil.
im all for you here, id pay money to see you bash this motherfuckers head in.
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im all for you here, id pay money to see you bash this motherfuckers head in.
Wiggs has to stand in line and wait his turn!!
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I'll ensure he won't be able to type again without the use prosthetic limbs.
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I'll ensure he won't be able to type again with prosthetic limbs.
LOL ;D
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:'(
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It is true that meds have been a godsend for many people, keeping them from being institutionalized as they might have been in times past. However, for loads of people these same drugs are merely a crutch they use instead of learning to cope with life. Almost everyone experiences anxiety at some point in their lives. Some people just deal with it. There probably isn't a person on this earth who hasn't been depressed at some point in time. Occasional depression is normal, especially when there is reason for it. Not everyone who is depressed needs meds to counter these feelings.
It seems more common today for folks to look for quick fixes by using drugs....legal or otherwise. When one is ill, it takes time to heal. Not everyone needs these drugs to get better.
I am not going into all the bullshit I have gone through in my life and the horribe things I have witnessed. there is a reason I get prescribed xanax if it makes the quality of your life better I dont see a reason not to take it. there are alot of people who have not had a third of the stress I have gone through and they get xanax. anyway I wouldn't get them prescribed unless I needed them! dr.s around here hate prescribing xanax! they know its extremely addictive and once you start you are pretty much going to be on them for life. their is no tapering down from 8mg a day and feeling ok. not going to happen. and as far as the pain meds go they judge that on a MRI(magnetic resonance imaging) and mine showed 6 herniated discs! plus a frac ture/crack in my T12. No way I could live without pain killers. I am on a contract with those they make me take UA's and can call me in for pill counts. I have been off pills after the wreck and it was awful i couldn't workout! on the pills I can live a normal life and workout do all the same shit I did before I got hit by the drunk. are these drugs going to take a few years off my life. probably a few but that dosn't bother me.
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:'(
lol
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:'(
The guy from Sherlock Holmes? Dredger?
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The guy from Sherlock Holmes? Dredger?
for wwe wrestler Kurgen...aka uberman on getbig.
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yes im unaware of any anti-psychotic being used for depression as a first line treatment if so the doctor should be fired as permenant movement disorders can occur like tardive dyskinesia
when you add apiprazole (abilify) to an sri it changes the pharmacology greatly, i assume you are on a low dose also, which actually shows some properties of a stimulant.
In my case, an ANTI-PHYSCOTIC wasnt the FIRST LINE OF TREATMENT.........Ive been on medications for almost 7 years. I just recently started taking an anti-physcotic two months ago for the very first time ever, because i have PHYSCOSIS. Like i said, I also have MAJOR DEPRESSION, which is EXTREME DEPRESSION, and ive noticed that My anti-physcotic ALSO works very well for my major depressive moods.
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In my case, an ANTI-PHYSCOTIC wasnt the FIRST LINE OF TREATMENT.........Ive been on medications for almost 7 years. I just recently started taking an anti-physcotic two months ago for the very first time ever, because i have PHYSCOSIS. Like i said, I also have MAJOR DEPRESSION, which is EXTREME DEPRESSION, and ive noticed that My anti-physcotic ALSO works very well for my major depressive moods.
WOW! Have you come to the wrong place.
/j/k
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people suffer of traumas caused by caregivers who betrayed their trust when they were very fragile, young. They dont understand most of the time why people who were suposed to love them after giving birth to them, betrayed em, harmed them psychologycally, physically, sexually. They spend the rest of their life wondering why they ve been hurt when they were innocent, and had no power to stop their aggressors. Most of the time they reproduce what happend to them subconsciously which worsens even more their suffering. Nobody cares, nobody is going to take the time to try to understand what s going on, especially nowadays in our societies where families are blown up from the inside because God, Fathers, have been abandonned, ans as a result the family and society itself is collapsing. When you cant even trust your own parents, grandparents, bortherhood, when you ve been hurt by them, you cant trust others outside of the family later. It's a vicious circle, and this is the origin of "mental illnesses". A lack of love, a lack of understanding, being powerless, not listened to by anyone, because we abandonned God and significant relationships with first our family members, and then with others in general. All these consequences are cumulative.
People who are on drugs need drugs because they cant find someone to listen to them, because they re hopeless, broken inside, and they re constantly meeting people who are broken inside and who keep hurting each others again and again. This is our societies nowadays.
This is the result of abandonning God. It is still possible to find God, when all other worthless humans only care about themselves and when your own caregivers attempted to destroy you reproducing most of the time what their own parents did to them. It's a chain reaction just like everything else. But you have to understand the real roots, origins of the problems, and not focus on their consequences, or you ll never stop the problem at its origin. It's the origin that has to be fought, and the origin of all human sufferings is the abandonning of God.
People attempt to find a meaning to their existences in sex, money, material goods, bad addictions -do not confuse good addictions with bad addictions as everything is addiction in itself- because they abandonned God and msotly reproducing what their own parents were doing. Parents who believe in God teach their sons and aughter sto believe in God. Atheists think they are God themselves, or that their addictions are their gods. They need more and more bad addictions, more and more drugs, because they abandonned God, and it doesnt even work, they re even more desperate. Because they re not looking where they should be looking.
On a side note, science without faith is not science. It is power driven destruction as it has been proven several times in human history. Real science, real revelations from God to some chosen humans is suposed to be used positively for the benefit of all of God's creatures.
Shut the fuck up, bitch.
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people suffer of traumas caused by caregivers who betrayed their trust when they were very fragile, young. They dont understand most of the time why people who were suposed to love them after giving birth to them, betrayed em, harmed them psychologycally, physically, sexually. They spend the rest of their life wondering why they ve been hurt when they were innocent, and had no power to stop their aggressors. Most of the time they reproduce what happend to them subconsciously which worsens even more their suffering. Nobody cares, nobody is going to take the time to try to understand what s going on, especially nowadays in our societies where families are blown up from the inside because God, Fathers, have been abandonned, ans as a result the family and society itself is collapsing. When you cant even trust your own parents, grandparents, bortherhood, when you ve been hurt by them, you cant trust others outside of the family later. It's a vicious circle, and this is the origin of "mental illnesses". A lack of love, a lack of understanding, being powerless, not listened to by anyone, because we abandonned God and significant relationships with first our family members, and then with others in general. All these consequences are cumulative.
People who are on drugs need drugs because they cant find someone to listen to them, because they re hopeless, broken inside, and they re constantly meeting people who are broken inside and who keep hurting each others again and again. This is our societies nowadays.
This is the result of abandonning God. It is still possible to find God, when all other worthless humans only care about themselves and when your own caregivers attempted to destroy you reproducing most of the time what their own parents did to them. It's a chain reaction just like everything else. But you have to understand the real roots, origins of the problems, and not focus on their consequences, or you ll never stop the problem at its origin. It's the origin that has to be fought, and the origin of all human sufferings is the abandonning of God.
People attempt to find a meaning to their existences in sex, money, material goods, bad addictions -do not confuse good addictions with bad addictions as everything is addiction in itself- because they abandonned God and msotly reproducing what their own parents were doing. Parents who believe in God teach their sons and aughter sto believe in God. Atheists think they are God themselves, or that their addictions are their gods. They need more and more bad addictions, more and more drugs, because they abandonned God, and it doesnt even work, they re even more desperate. Because they re not looking where they should be looking.
On a side note, science without faith is not science. It is power driven destruction as it has been proven several times in human history. Real science, real revelations from God to some chosen humans is suposed to be used positively for the benefit of all of God's creatures.
Go away with your fucking nonsense!
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I am not going into all the bullshit I have gone through in my life and the horribe things I have witnessed. there is a reason I get prescribed xanax if it makes the quality of your life better I dont see a reason not to take it. there are alot of people who have not had a third of the stress I have gone through and they get xanax. anyway I wouldn't get them prescribed unless I needed them! dr.s around here hate prescribing xanax! they know its extremely addictive and once you start you are pretty much going to be on them for life. their is no tapering down from 8mg a day and feeling ok. not going to happen. and as far as the pain meds go they judge that on a MRI(magnetic resonance imaging) and mine showed 6 herniated discs! plus a frac ture/crack in my T12. No way I could live without pain killers. I am on a contract with those they make me take UA's and can call me in for pill counts. I have been off pills after the wreck and it was awful i couldn't workout! on the pills I can live a normal life and workout do all the same shit I did before I got hit by the drunk. are these drugs going to take a few years off my life. probably a few but that dosn't bother me.
No one can argue with you about how what you've experienced both physically and mentally has affected your wellbeing and stress levels because no one else is you. Everyone deals with these things in different ways. It is good that you found a way that works for you.
My early childhood was apparently so messed up that my extended family thought of me as the orphan child (I found this out from a cousin when I was well into adulthood). To say that my upbringing was dysfunctional is probably an understatement. However, I came out of it just fine and truthfully, I have a ton of really happy memories from childhood. Somewhere along the line, I unconsciously decided to hang onto all the good stuff and let the bad stuff go....can't change it anyway. This was my experience and this is how I normally deal with issues today too. It works well for me. It probably wouldn't work for everyone.
Recently, I was diagnosed with degenerative disk disease (old age spine problems). My doctor put me on muscle relaxants and pain meds. I took them for one day, didn't like the way they made me feel and called my doctor for other alternatives. As a result I just finished 8 weeks of physical therapy to strengthen my core muscles, etc. For pain management, I am using a tens unit several days a week. This is how I deal with pain. It works for me, it probably would not work for you. As I said, everyone is different.
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In my case, an ANTI-PHYSCOTIC wasnt the FIRST LINE OF TREATMENT.........Ive been on medications for almost 7 years. I just recently started taking an anti-physcotic two months ago for the very first time ever, because i have PHYSCOSIS. Like i said, I also have MAJOR DEPRESSION, which is EXTREME DEPRESSION, and ive noticed that My anti-physcotic ALSO works very well for my major depressive moods.
My mother was neurotic to say the least and most likely suffered from an array of mental issues, such as: manic-depression, narcissistic personality disorder and god knows what else. My aunt who recently died at a very old age, was schizophrenic and when forced, on medication for this most of her adult life. My father, I believe also had issues with chronic depression and alcoholism.
Some of these issues are thought to be genetic. Scary thought! So far, I have had a good and mentally and physically healthy life and one largely lived without the aid of any drugs. I consider myself very fortunate. Personally, I think I owe my good life to my wife. Without her love and support, I have no idea where I'd be today....if even alive.
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Happy for you , Voland...Fuerza , no necesitas esa mierda..fuerza hermano
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My mother was neurotic to say the least and most likely suffered from an array of mental issues, such as: manic-depression, narcissistic personality disorder and god knows what else. My aunt who recently died at a very old age, was schizophrenic and when forced, on medication for this most of her adult life. My father, I believe also had issues with chronic depression and alcoholism.
Some of these issues are thought to be genetic. Scary thought! So far, I have had a good and mentally and physically healthy life and one largely lived without the aid of any drugs. I consider myself very fortunate. Personally, I think I owe my good life to my wife. Without her love and support, I have no idea where I'd be today....if even alive.
Genetic Predisposition. Thats how it is with me.........BOTH of my brothers and I have mental health issues/ take medication. My dad said he was diagnosed with PANIC DISORDER back when he was 21 and im pretty sure he had other mental health issues, but he doesnt want to tell me. Same with my mom, i may be wrong but im sure shes a HYPOMANIAC.......Which is a part of having Bipolar Disorder I think, i may be wrong.
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Saying that mental illness is a brain disorder and can be fixed by something as simple as taking a pill is like saying that a software problem in your computer is a problem with your hard drive and you'll fix it by taking out the poor drive and fiddling with its electronics
in any case, an astonishing simplistic and ignorant view, especially coming from someone who claims he's a doctor.
Some of the most gruesome experiments (that would make Dr Mengele, the Angel of death blush) have been performed in sanatoriums.
Cutting peoples heads open, putting all manner of chemicals in to their bodies, giving them LSD, large voltage shocks to the brain, cutting parts of the brain out to see what happens. The 20'th century saw the most outrageous crimes against the ill :'(
The mental health care industry, has been a fucking horrific, freak show, of horrors. All performed by people who call them-selves doctors.
PT
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I would rather take prozac, zoloft, etc.,
Good luck with the SSRI's mate, at least synthetic opiate dependency can be reversed ;)
Just do not spend time around loaded guns & or, firing ranges. You should be fine :-\
PT
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Some of the most gruesome experiments (that would make Dr Mengele, the Angel of death blush) have been performed in sanatoriums.
Cutting peoples heads open, putting all manner of chemicals in to their bodies, giving them LSD, large voltage shocks to the brain, cutting parts of the brain out to see what happens. The 20'th century saw the most outrageous crimes against the ill :'(
The mental health care industry, has been a fucking horrific, freak show, of horrors. All performed by people who call them-selves doctors.
PT
You speak the truth!
My schizophrenic aunt did everything she could to stay out of mental wards. She had VA benefits and would sometimes be forced to live at the VA hospital for months at a time. One wonders why. It is not like doctors have a cure for schizophrenia. They'd medicate her and she'd become a fat zombie until she got out and was on her own again and off the meds.
Sure she was crazy, but she was a hoot too. I miss her. She died last July while living in West Hollywood, CA. As far as I know, she was homeless. Imagine that! And yet she outlived all her siblings. My aunt was 85 years old when she died. Maybe there is something to be said for being crazy.
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I´ve stopped benso cold turkey...i had been tapering down from 100 mg diazepam to 35 mg at a clinic...then i was kicked out for anger management problems lol...i had to go there and eat lunch and get my meds for the day...but i asked another doctor for a second opinion on how to stop this and he gave me a prescription for LYRICA 300 MG X 2 / DAY. He told me to stop using diazepam right away and use as much Lyrica (pregabalin) I wanted for one week and damn adfterwards I was fine! I stopped using Lyrica, still have it on prescription and it kicks all benzos ass if you take 1-2 a week...and it is not as habit forming...if you use it every day tolerance build up way to fast and you wont feel shit, but tolerance drops just as quickly too... If you want to stop using bensos ask your doctor for a prescirption for Lyrica and you won´t have to go through hell and back to stop using it!
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So what the hell happened op??
you still alive :-\
Yes. :)
Staying clean and never going back. I've been exploring some relaxation techniques and other psychological stuff like not over thinking, watching situations with perspective and in relative terms etc.
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I´ve stopped benso cold turkey...i had been tapering down from 100 mg diazepam to 35 mg at a clinic...then i was kicked out for anger management problems lol...i had to go there and eat lunch and get my meds for the day...but i asked another doctor for a second opinion on how to stop this and he gave me a prescription for LYRICA 300 MG X 2 / DAY. He told me to stop using diazepam right away and use as much Lyrica (pregabalin) I wanted for one week and damn adfterwards I was fine! I stopped using Lyrica, still have it on prescription and it kicks all benzos ass if you take 1-2 a week...and it is not as habit forming...if you use it every day tolerance build up way to fast and you wont feel shit, but tolerance drops just as quickly too... If you want to stop using bensos ask your doctor for a prescirption for Lyrica and you won´t have to go through hell and back to stop using it!
oh its habit forming alright, it has a nasty withdrawal when tolerance builds up and you have been taking it for weeks.
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just take HGH and a little testosterona :D
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Yes. :)
Staying clean and never going back. I've been exploring some relaxation techniques and other psychological stuff like not over thinking, watching situations with perspective and in relative terms etc.
i urge you with all my will and sole to read about kava kava, buy only very good quality root and chew it, blah blah blah i know my shit, it has benzo like affects but is non addictive because of its action and site of action, it is also more euphoric and much more of a social lubricant. PM me if you want but it will help anxiety tremendously, just read the research, and it has to be root, not extract, but traditional root, like at bulakavahouse.com
sick shit.
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just take HGH and a little testosterona :D
oh dude im laughing my ass off lol testosterona lol
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No one can argue with you about how what you've experienced both physically and mentally has affected your wellbeing and stress levels because no one else is you. Everyone deals with these things in different ways. It is good that you found a way that works for you.
My early childhood was apparently so messed up that my extended family thought of me as the orphan child (I found this out from a cousin when I was well into adulthood). To say that my upbringing was dysfunctional is probably an understatement. However, I came out of it just fine and truthfully, I have a ton of really happy memories from childhood. Somewhere along the line, I unconsciously decided to hang onto all the good stuff and let the bad stuff go....can't change it anyway. This was my experience and this is how I normally deal with issues today too. It works well for me. It probably wouldn't work for everyone.
Recently, I was diagnosed with degenerative disk disease (old age spine problems). My doctor put me on muscle relaxants and pain meds. I took them for one day, didn't like the way they made me feel and called my doctor for other alternatives. As a result I just finished 8 weeks of physical therapy to strengthen my core muscles, etc. For pain management, I am using a tens unit several days a week. This is how I deal with pain. It works for me, it probably would not work for you. As I said, everyone is different.
I went to physical therapy over 4 months when I got hit by the drunk. I still need pain meds they make the quality of life better just like the xanax without either I wouldn't be able to sleep. as for being young I had a great unbringing but I ws raied in the city where alot of bad things go on. I have seen people shot dead in broad daylight, I have seen people stabbed.Ive been through things I dont even want to talk about, its horrible. but I had anxiety almost as a kid just genetically I used to sweat alot. think of having to change your shirt after every class period because you sweated through the one you had on. I seiously had to change my T-shirt or polo after every class. I saved allot of money and bought a brand new mustand at 16 years old I had alot of people think I was involved with drug trafficking.I had people watching me for a long time. I finally had the DEA raid where i was at the time and they did not find anything at the time but it was scary they all rushed me with guns and they were in nirmal close so part of me thought I was getting jacked. they ripped me off pretty good. took all my jewelry ntook my car to tear up to shit, all over nohting. I didn't have aything. I had to hire a lawyer to get all my stuff back.they kept watching me after that too taking pictures following m=e everywhhere. I have o idea where they got money to fund this.to this day I am paranoid
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http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/doctors-sued-for-creating-valium-addicts-6282542.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/doctors-sued-for-creating-valium-addicts-6282542.html)
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Yes. :)
Staying clean and never going back. I've been exploring some relaxation techniques and other psychological stuff like not over thinking, watching situations with perspective and in relative terms etc.
Awesome!
That was my problem too; over thinking. It was nice coming off because it felt like a veil being lifted that I had been walking around with for months. The most random thoughts where now coming back to me at once, mostly from the past.
I've learned to embrace this constant mind chatter and use it for my good instead of letting it work against me.
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Dad was addicted to xanax and all the other manic deppressive drugs,Killed himself 3 years ago ,brother stole anistetics from his job in intensive care and was found dead choked with needle in arm 2 years ago.......I have anger issues but am too scared/defiant to get med for it are they all bad and addictive???....Mind you i have done every drug known to man and never had a addiction prob ,Worst was smokes
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My uneducated opinion is that psychology is still struggling trying to be a science simply because no matter how much you refine different models of human behavior you're really going nowhere until much, MUCH more is known about the brain. A psychologist might say "This person is manodepressive due to a abusive father and a chemical imbalance in his brain" but the psychologist doesn't even remotely come close to knowing WHY that is so. He can only point to outside stimulus and effect, if that. There is as of yet no good explanation of how the brain works. We're still dumbfounded trying to define something as elementary as consciousnesses.
I remember reading in Kaku's "Physics of the future" that the currently most advanced/fastest computer in the world, the IBM blue gene, can at the most only simulate the firing of the neurons in a brain belonging to a mouse(2 million neurons). To do the same for a human brain(100 BILLION neurons) would with present technology require the energy input of an entire nuclear plant and that would still only be a simulation. Not to mention that the computer required to perform such a simulation is still far beyond our reach.
Remember that, the next time you utilize nutrients from simple food to perform everyday tasks that no computer in the entire world can even come close to doing, even with a nuclear power plant to supply its energy. That in my mind is pretty damn cool.
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Ouch...
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professional primary physician.
im not a psychiatrist but i have an interest in it. I focus on it when i study keep up to date with medicine.
my comment wasnt directed at anyone really, i just see some bad advice to people who are irrational due to anxiety perhaps.
benzos for anxiety are bad, some cases sure, but in terms of treatment algorithms its the last option as its well known that tolerance builds,addiction ensues and anxiety usually gets worse especially with quick acting tranqs
I respectfully disagree with the addiction part ... in a sense.
Yes, they are madly addictive. I fully admit I am hooked to Lorazepam like a cheap hooker is to smack, crack or whatever the fuck is big these days :D
On the other hand, Lorazepam has NO -- I repeat, NO -- FATAL DOSE. It also does NOT negatively interact with other, unrelated prescription drugs. Drink a fifth of Jack and swallow a bunch of Ativan, and yeah ... you're out for the count. But Jack ain't prescription, is it?
It is better that I continue to take this drug and remain Joe Cool than I ever was without it, including long before I was addicted to the stuff. And taken on its face, so fucking what if I'm "addicted" to the drug? Tell some poor soul trying to quit Paxil after six months about withdrawal symptoms. Been there, done that. Yet, M.D.s have NO problem prescribing it and similar drugs (most of which will utterly FUCK your sex life. I've had to lie to many girlfriends: "Yeah, baby, I came. Want to check the condom?" Having a great orgasm, even in a hot-assed woman, is VERY hard with those fucking evil drugs.
It is true that one builds a tolerance to benzos given time. A decade ago, point-five milligrams of Ativan would smooth me out. After regular use, I require at least a full milligram. My best days are when I take twice that.
I'm not happy to be dependent on the stuff, but then, let's shift gears for a second: Getbig is primarily about bodybuilding, and not your granddad's idea of bodybuilding at that. If someone wants to blast benzo users, I hope they're at least as righteously indignant when it comes to using gH, insulin, AAS and whatever the else fuck is big these days :D
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I respectfully disagree with the addiction part ... in a sense.
Yes, they are madly addictive. I fully admit I am hooked to Lorazepam like a cheap hooker is to smack, crack or whatever the fuck is big these days :D
On the other hand, Lorazepam has NO -- I repeat, NO -- FATAL DOSE. It also does NOT negatively interact with other, unrelated prescription drugs. Drink a fifth of Jack and swallow a bunch of Ativan, and yeah ... you're out for the count. But Jack ain't prescription, is it?
It is better that I continue to take this drug and remain Joe Cool than I ever was without it, including long before I was addicted to the stuff. And taken on its face, so fucking what if I'm "addicted" to the drug? Tell some poor soul trying to quit Paxil after six months about withdrawal symptoms. Been there, done that. Yet, M.D.s have NO problem prescribing it and similar drugs (most of which will utterly FUCK your sex life. I've had to lie to many girlfriends: "Yeah, baby, I came. Want to check the condom?" Having a great orgasm, even in a hot-assed woman, is VERY hard with those fucking evil drugs.
It is true that one builds a tolerance to benzos given time. A decade ago, point-five milligrams of Ativan would smooth me out. After regular use, I require at least a full milligram. My best days are when I take twice that.
I'm not happy to be dependent on the stuff, but then, let's shift gears for a second: Getbig is primarily about bodybuilding, and not your granddad's idea of bodybuilding at that. If someone wants to blast benzo users, I hope they're at least as righteously indignant when it comes to using gH, insulin, AAS and whatever the else fuck is big these days :D
lorazepam kills at has an established LD50. It interacts with numerous medications, such as opiates,anticonvulsants and any CNS depressant or myorelaxant.
you may not be psychologically addicted but you are dependent on the drug, theres a difference.
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exactly what i thought, so do you care to explain why your uneducated ass knows more than an MD?
Which MD?
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You sell crack too, Spirelli ?
No, your wife lets me pass her around for free. :-* touchguy
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Which MD?
any MD they are all brilliant and know everything ::)
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Which MD?
as an aside you would be shocked at how stupid most gps are.
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ONE MONTH CLEAN!!! 8)
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that was you?