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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Big N on February 17, 2012, 11:05:27 AM
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The Florida Highway Patrol have cleared 267-pound Trooper Daniel Cole of wrongdoing and have released a disturbing dash cam video that captured him tasing a 100 pound, 20 year old handcuffed girl in the back as she fled. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement determined Trooper Daniel Cole's "use of force" was justified when he tased the woman last September at the FHP Pinellas Park Substation and cleared him of wrongdoing. The fleeing woman, Danielle Maudsley, 20, suffered severe brain damage after hitting her head on the concrete and has been in a persistent vegetative state ever since.
The video shows Maudsley fleeing a back door of the substation with Cole following closely behind
Maudsley's mother said the trooper should have used other means to stop her daughter from fleeing. "He was right behind her. He could've reached out," Maudsley said. "It was unnecessary." The mother hired defense attorney Kevin Haylsett, who put FHP on notice for a lawsuit. Hayslett said Cole violated FHP's taser policy which states: "Fleeing cannot be the sole reason for the deployment." "When you shoot someone in the back, and they're running away, all that force -- as you saw when Danielle's head hit the concrete -- that's why they don't allow you to do that, because you can have horrible tragedies like this," Hayslett said.
- Discuss
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As my dad says, "These cops are just criminals with a badge." He is a former police officer btw.
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Fuck that fat fucken piece of shit cop. He was to fat to catch her so he tases her ??? It was over a misdamenor. Now she's braindead for the rest of her life. Cops aren't suppose to use tasers for someone who is fleeing. She's 20 years old, kids do stupid things. She mine as well be dead now!
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The Florida Highway Patrol have cleared 267-pound Trooper Daniel Cole of wrongdoing and have released a disturbing dash cam video that captured him tasing a 100 pound, 20 year old handcuffed girl in the back as she fled. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement determined Trooper Daniel Cole's "use of force" was justified when he tased the woman last September at the FHP Pinellas Park Substation and cleared him of wrongdoing. The fleeing woman, Danielle Maudsley, 20, suffered severe brain damage after hitting her head on the concrete and has been in a persistent vegetative state ever since.
The video shows Maudsley fleeing a back door of the substation with Cole following closely behind
Maudsley's mother said the trooper should have used other means to stop her daughter from fleeing. "He was right behind her. He could've reached out," Maudsley said. "It was unnecessary." The mother hired defense attorney Kevin Haylsett, who put FHP on notice for a lawsuit. Hayslett said Cole violated FHP's taser policy which states: "Fleeing cannot be the sole reason for the deployment." "When you shoot someone in the back, and they're running away, all that force -- as you saw when Danielle's head hit the concrete -- that's why they don't allow you to do that, because you can have horrible tragedies like this," Hayslett said.
- Discuss
She was handcuffed, the fat fuck knew she would smash her head and would be unable to break her fall. He also clearly violated the taser policy. Whatever the girl did, I hope she gets a decent settlement.
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^ditto.
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dumb bitch gets it for running from misdemeaner with cuffs on
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The cop should be publicly executed.
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The cop should be tasered daily for the rest of his life. All fat people should be, btw...
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He could have grabbed her from that distance.
But why the Fuck would you run with handcuffs on? ???
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ah why the fuck didnt he use a proper gun at least that way there would only be one brain dead person alive
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What a hero. ::)
The streets must be are safer now.
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I hate cops, that said, in the old days, I wanted to be a cop. Now, I hate them and I have never had a ticket or any violation. Why was the girl running away from authority anyway? Kids and some people dont respect authority or the law, they would steal from you and kill you if they could get away with it. Thats why I'm a getbigger, they stay the fuck away.
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I think she tried to snatch his donut away...
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whoever wrote this aritcle is not biased at all ::)
The Florida Highway Patrol have cleared 267-pound Trooper Daniel Cole of wrongdoing and have released a disturbing dash cam video that captured him tasing a 100 pound, 20 year old handcuffed girl in the back as she fled.
what does weight have to do with it? I could understand if he was restraining her and she broke free. Then it would reflect his incompetence since he has the size and strength advantage. Also, why does the article refer to the 20 year old as a "girl" when she is legally an adult?
The Florida Department of Law Enforcement determined Trooper Daniel Cole's "use of force" was justified when he tased the woman last September at the FHP Pinellas Park Substation and cleared him of wrongdoing. The fleeing woman, Danielle Maudsley, 20, suffered severe brain damage after hitting her head on the concrete and has been in a persistent vegetative state ever since. The video shows Maudsley fleeing a back door of the substation with Cole following closely behind
well there you have it. The woman broke the law, was caught, then broke another law by trying to escape, and unfortunately suffered the consequences of her actions. No one could have predicted she would end up brain dead. This was a freak accident if anything.
Maudsley's mother said the trooper should have used other means to stop her daughter from fleeing. "He was right behind her. He could've reached out," Maudsley said. "It was unnecessary." The mother hired defense attorney Kevin Haylsett, who put FHP on notice for a lawsuit. Hayslett said Cole violated FHP's taser policy which states: "Fleeing cannot be the sole reason for the deployment." "When you shoot someone in the back, and they're running away, all that force -- as you saw when Danielle's head hit the concrete -- that's why they don't allow you to do that, because you can have horrible tragedies like this," Hayslett said.
you left this piece of information out. From the same article:
An Office of Inspector General Investigation Unit report states: "Although the FHP policy on Electronic Control Devices states that a member should not use the device on a handcuffed prisoner, it also provides that there may be situations that conflict with this policy."
The report goes on to state: "In this situation, Maudsley ... removed one of her handcuffs while in the back of Cole's patrol car, and moved her handcuffs from behind her back, to in front of her body, as she attempted to flee the FHP Station. In addition, Maudsley was running towards US Highway 19 which is a high volume road."
The Florida Department of Law Enforcement conducted an independent review of the incident," FHP spokesperson Sgt. Steve Gaskins said. "Their investigation found that the trooper's actions were legal and within the scope of his duties.
In the report, Cole said he chose to use the taser because he "felt she was more susceptible to being injured if he attempted to tackle her." Cole weighs approximately 267 pounds."
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http://www.ToxicCops.com - The Florida Highway Patrol have cleared 267-pound Trooper Daniel Cole of wrongdoing and have released a disturbing dash cam video that captured him tasing a 100 pound, 20 year old handcuffed girl in the back as she fled.
The Florida Department of Law Enforcement determined Trooper Daniel Cole's "use of force" was justified when he tased the woman last September at the FHP Pinellas Park Substation and cleared him of wrongdoing.
The fleeing woman, Danielle Maudsley, 20, suffered severe brain damage after hitting her head on the concrete and has been in a persistent vegetative state ever since.
Unless there's 2 Dan Cole's in Pinellas county this is him on the right with his wife
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The girl was running away regardless of being handcuffed or not ... lol she was already in custody, the bitch was crazy enough to try to escape in the first place.
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The girl was running away regardless of being handcuffed or not ... lol she was already in custody, the bitch was crazy enough to try to escape in the first place.
The bitch was already braindead in the first place. Fucking idiot. These pretty young women think they can get away with everyone cuz they're pretty and have a pussy.
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http://www.ToxicCops.com - The Florida Highway Patrol have cleared 267-pound Trooper Daniel Cole of wrongdoing and have released a disturbing dash cam video that captured him tasing a 100 pound, 20 year old handcuffed girl in the back as she fled.
The Florida Department of Law Enforcement determined Trooper Daniel Cole's "use of force" was justified when he tased the woman last September at the FHP Pinellas Park Substation and cleared him of wrongdoing.
The fleeing woman, Danielle Maudsley, 20, suffered severe brain damage after hitting her head on the concrete and has been in a persistent vegetative state ever since.
Unless there's 2 Dan Cole's in Pinellas county this is him on the right with his wife
Wonder if he tases his wife while he rapes her in the anus.
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Very confused as to how the use of force was justified in this one... Seems it would be akin to shooting a fleeing subject in the back.
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Very confused as to how the use of force was justified in this one... Seems it would be akin to shooting a fleeing subject in the back.
read the article. It explains how it was justified. If you're too lazy to click on the link, then read my post above
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read the article. It explains how it was justified
I did read it, I just don't agree with it.
Again... running away is running away.
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I did read it, I just don't agree with it.
what part don't you agree with?
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I think cops like that take any excuse to use that cool taser tool..
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As my dad says, "These cops are just criminals with a badge." He is a former police officer btw.
word!!
I have no doubt that cops in USA have also been good people and respectable professionals in the past.
It's sad what they seem to be today. All this excessive violence we here too often.... what changed ???
Be it whatever, I hope that never comes here.
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not very smart to run away handcuffed.
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word!!
I have no doubt that cops in USA have also been good people and respectable professionals in the past.
It's sad what they seem to be today. All this excessive violence we here too often.... what changed ???
Be it whatever, I hope that never comes here.
x2 policemen are a bit more firm in Holland lately, but in my youth they were more like social workers, quite the opposite from these US cops...
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not very smart to run away handcuffed.
Maybe he wanted her to feel his sixpack..... :-X
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sad she ended up like that, but shit happens. she shouldnt have run.
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I did read it, I just don't agree with it.
Again... running away is running away.
the woman broke the law, was caught, and tried to escape. She had managed to slip the handcuffs from behind her back to in front of her body and was headed towards US-19, which is a busy road. She was not only breaking the law for fleeing police but she could have put her life in danger by running towards traffic, the officer's life in danger, and the lives of the automobile drivers. The trooper did what he had to do to quickly put an end to the pursuit. No one could have predicted the woman would end up brain dead
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I heard about this on the radio this morning. The girl was high on coke and Oxy's, escaped from her cuffs and proceeded to run out of the precinct. Earlier, weeks before this incident, she had hit and run two separate vehicles after a bad drug deal. So, shes probably not a poster child for good behavior. From the looks of the video the cop could've caught her without using that taser, which they seem more than happy to use these days. But that chick aint no girl scout, don't fool yourself.
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what part don't you agree with?
Tasers are the alternative resort to a gun... That's what we are always told and what policies in most department dictates.
As such, shooting someone in the back with a gun is not allowed and is considered murder in many instances as there is no imminent threat to the public from a fleeing suspect in a misdemeanor incident. (Obviously if it were a murder suspect it would be different)
In this instance there was no imminent danger to the public and there was certainly alternative means to apprehend the suspect.
That is why I do not agree with the reasoning behind justification of the officers action.
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This is the society we live in. What the cop did isnt the issue. Did he do the wrong thing? possibly, but that girl should not have forced him to make that decision. The bottom line is the girl ran from the police!!! Why are you excusing this from the argument? If she did not run from the police would she have been tazed? no
Reminds me of the time I pulled over a guy doing 60 in a 30. He also had an expired inspection. So I tell him Ill ignore the speeding and just gave him a ticket for the inspection, which all he had to do was then get it inspected and the ticket would be voided. So he starts bitching about why I let him go with the speeding and not the inspection. I said he you go, here's both tickets. fucking dumbass. I bet he was a get bigger.
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x2 policemen are a bit more firm in Holland lately, but in my youth they were more like social workers, quite the opposite from these US cops...
I have absolutely same experience here!
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word!!
I have no doubt that cops in USA have also been good people and respectable professionals in the past.
It's sad what they seem to be today. All this excessive violence we here too often.... what changed ???
Be it whatever, I hope that never comes here.
1,000x less 'violent' then in the past. Now we are a pussy society and there is a camera in every car + everyone has a cell camera. Sme of the shit cops did in the past is long gone. When they cleaned up NYC in the 80's you should have seen some of the shit cops were doing.
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This is the society we live in. What the cop did isnt the issue. Did he do the wrong thing? possibly, but that girl should not have forced him to make that decision. The bottom line is the girl ran from the police!!! Why are you excusing this from the argument? If she did not run from the police would she have been tazed? no
Reminds me of the time I pulled over a guy doing 60 in a 30. He also had an expired inspection. So I tell him Ill ignore the speeding and just gave him a ticket for the inspection, which all he had to do was then get it inspected and the ticket would be voided. So he starts bitching about why I let him go with the speeding and not the inspection. I said he you go, here's both tickets. fucking dumbass. I bet he was a get bigger.
Is there a danger of someone running on foot from the police?
Do you feel that this woman's life deserved to be destroyed because she "ran"?
Seriously? The woman is BRAINDEAD.
She is a VEGETABLE.
You feel she deserved what she got?
Really?
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In this instance there was no imminent danger to the public and there was certainly alternative means to apprehend the suspect.
That is why I do not agree with the reasoning behind justification of the officers action.
again, read the article. I have re-posted twice that she was running towards US-19, which is a high volume road. She could have put her life in danger, the trooper's life in danger, and the lives of the automobile drivers in danger. He did what he had to do to quickly put an end to the pursuit without risking her being a threat to herself or society.
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he didnt stomp her head in, she got tazed, 99% of time, this is completely safe. it is horrible that this happened, but it is HER fault.
the same reasoning goes to Whitney Houston OD'ing! she rolled the dice, she crapped out!
should have taken the ticket, got released, then came on getbig and snivel about it.
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How has the dad of this girl not already raped the cop's wife while he watched, then rape and kill him?
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As my dad says, "These cops are just criminals with a badge." He is a former police officer btw.
True.
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Is there a danger of someone running on foot from the police?
Do you feel that this woman's life deserved to be destroyed because she "ran"?
Seriously? The woman is BRAINDEAD.
She is a VEGETABLE.
You feel she deserved what she got?
Really?
Do I feel she deserved to be braindead? of course not but who knew what the outcome would be?
People get tazed all day long. How many of them fall and become braindead? this is the first I've seen. Like I said she forced that cop to make a decision.
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he didnt stomp her head in, she got tazed, 99% of time, this is completely safe. it is horrible that this happened, but it is HER fault.
the same reasoning goes to Whitney Houston OD'ing! she rolled the dice, she crapped out!
should have taken the ticket, got released, then came on getbig and snivel about it.
Half of get big would say it wasnt her fault, it was the person giving her the drugs.
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Do I feel she deserved to be braindead? of course not but who knew what the outcome would be?
People get tazed all day long. How many of them fall and become braindead? this is the first I've seen. Like I said she forced that cop to make a decision.
Yes and his decision was quite poor. Tasing a girl in the back.
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so cliche to blame "these cops" for wrogn doing. guess "the man" is keeping us down ::)
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Yes and his decision was quite poor. Tasing a girl in the back.
not really. The outcome could have been worse. Stop covering your ears and saying "la la la"
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again, read the article. I have re-posted twice that she was running towards US-19, which is a high volume road. She could have put her life in danger, the trooper's life in danger, and the lives of the automobile drivers in danger. He did what he had to do to quickly put an end to the pursuit without risking her being a threat to herself or society.
So you think you and others should use mind reading to predict what may happen when someone is running and think that the best option is to assume the worst and use the most force?
you are illogical.
It's just as likely she ran towards the woods, assuming she was going to run out into traffic as an accuse is stupid it's a unfounded assumption one that cost this lady her life pretty much. You are suggesting that we protect from the worst outcome, that is absurd.
Its not even logically from human psychology that she would put her life in dire straights as she is attempting to flea assumable because she values her life and freedom. It was a misdameanor which indicates that she wasn't violent, abusive etc.. thus her running if it is dangerous to her is more precious then stopping this criminal at all costs.
Seriously, the policy states that you cannot stun gun motherfuckers for fleaing, it states this. Thus, even from a justice perspective, he did the wrong thing, i find it both morally and logically wrong as well.
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:P
(http://www.baynews9.com/static/articles/images/news2011/Danielle-taser-927_rdax_676x451.bmp)
(http://florida.arrests.org/mugs/Pinellas/1456104.jpg)
(http://florida.arrests.org/mugs/Pinellas/1451540.jpg)
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would hit
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She wasn't going to write Beethoven's....... you know the rest.
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:P
(http://florida.arrests.org/mugs/Pinellas/1456104.jpg)
This is actually the girl ?
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Hahah ;D
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So you think you and others should use mind reading to predict what may happen when someone is running and think that the best option is to assume the worst and use the most force?
you are illogical.
It's just as likely she ran towards the woods, assuming she was going to run out into traffic as an accuse is stupid it's a unfounded assumption one that cost this lady her life pretty much. You are suggesting that we protect from the worst outcome, that is absurd.
Its not even logically from human psychology that she would put her life in dire straights as she is attempting to flea assumable because she values her life and freedom. It was a misdameanor which indicates that she wasn't violent, abusive etc.. thus her running if it is dangerous to her is more precious then stopping this criminal at all costs.
Seriously, the policy states that you cannot stun gun motherfuckers for fleaing, it states this. Thus, even from a justice perspective, he did the wrong thing, i find it both morally and logically wrong as well.
LOL your not too bright I see. She was a drug user, you think she was running to protect her life? 20 year old with a criminal record and drug abuse and you think she values her life and freedom?!
Do you suggest he should have chased after her? Do you know what a 267 pound man taking down a 100 pound addict could have done.
Using a tazer is always safer then tackling someone.
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the sound when cops run, it always sounds like a fat guy that really don't want to have run at all, their pant's must be heavy or something
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not really. The outcome could have been worse. Stop covering your ears and saying "la la la"
Worse than braindead for a misdemeanor?
HaHAHAHA!! Do you honestly believe this?
Please tell me what absolutely improbable thing you will say could be "worse".
Fact. Girl was no danger to anyone.
Fact. Girl was tased from behind.
Fact. Girl is braindead.
What "what if" scenario would you like to present that is even remotely "likely"?
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LOL your not too bright I see. She was a drug user, you think she was running to protect her life? 20 year old with a criminal record and drug abuse and you think she values her life and freedom?!
Do you suggest he should have chased after her? Do you know what a 267 pound man taking down a 100 pound addict could have done.
Using a tazer is always safer then tackling someone.
She was arrested... He probably already knows who she is and where she lives.
I am more than confident he could have just gone to her house later on and picked her up.
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This is actually the girl ?
yep
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She was arrested... He probably already knows who she is and where she lives.
I am more than confident he could have just gone to her house later on and picked her up.
LOL I'm done with this argument. I'm sure she would have ran home and the cops would have just stopped by and interrupted her during tea time to bring her to the station.
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LOL I'm done with this argument. I'm sure she would have ran home and the cops would have just stopped by and interrupted her during tea time to bring her to the station.
Don't bullshit, you know full well that most criminals are caught at home.
A misdemeanor man... come on... She's not fleeing the country over a misdemeanor.
You should be done with the argument because you're ridiculous.
The girl isn't some fucking Algerian terrorist who is running to Mexico over a drug charge or some shit.
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had it been a 20yo wannabe thug you'll all be applauding. When did the society start giving privileges to the women...
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So you think you and others should use mind reading to predict what may happen when someone is running and think that the best option is to assume the worst and use the most force?
no one claimed anything remotely close to mind reading or advocated using the most force
It's just as likely she ran towards the woods, assuming she was going to run out into traffic as an accuse is stupid it's a unfounded assumption one that cost this lady her life pretty much. You are suggesting that we protect from the worst outcome, that is absurd.
if you watch the video, you can see she is running towards US-19, and the distance between the road and the station is not much.
Its not even logically from human psychology that she would put her life in dire straights as she is attempting to flea assumable because she values her life and freedom. It was a misdameanor which indicates that she wasn't violent, abusive etc.. thus her running if it is dangerous to her is more precious then stopping this criminal at all costs.
ironic that you accuse me of "assuming" up above and then you make the assumption the woman wouldn't be crazy enough to run into traffic after she was already involved in 2 hit-and-run accidents, was driving with a suspended license, and had cocaine in her system. lol
Seriously, the policy states that you cannot stun gun motherfuckers for fleaing, it states this. Thus, even from a justice perspective, he did the wrong thing, i find it both morally and logically wrong as well.
I already addressed this
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This is the society we live in. What the cop did isnt the issue. Did he do the wrong thing? possibly, but that girl should not have forced him to make that decision. The bottom line is the girl ran from the police!!! Why are you excusing this from the argument? If she did not run from the police would she have been tazed? no
What the cop did IS the issue, with authority comes responsibility.
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This girl is a victim. A victim of her own poor choices. It sickens me that people and the media are trying to portray her as such. For the most part cops are normal guys that have to do a stressful job, a job in which the instruction manual isn't always applicable. Granted it sucks that she is brain dead, but based on what I saw she didnt hit her head all that hard and I wouldn't have guessed she had a bleed. It seems there was some oversight that she wasnt medically evaluated to rule out a bleed, her mentation would have declined over time and would have been noticed if people were looking, but thats it.
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Worse than braindead for a misdemeanor?
HaHAHAHA!! Do you honestly believe this?
Please tell me what absolutely improbable thing you will say could be "worse".
Fact. Girl was no danger to anyone.
Fact. Girl was tased from behind.
Fact. Girl is braindead.
What "what if" scenario would you like to present that is even remotely "likely"?
stop with the dramatized responses. The woman was a threat to herself and to society when she ran towards the road. She could have been hit and killed, the trooper could have been hit, or innocent bystanders could have been killed. Furthermore, if the trooper allowed her to escape by not using the taser or pursuing after her in traffic, then we would have a threat to society on the loose. She has already been involved in 2 hit-and-run accidents and clearly has little regard for the law hence her driving without a license and trying to escape. Who is to say the next time won't result in a death(s)? Like I have been saying from the beginning, it's unfortunate what happened to the woman but the trooper did what he had to do to put an end to the pursuit without risking her being a threat to herself or society.
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yep
Doesn't look like the ideal daughter-in-law, but I bet she's an animal in bed, before the brain-dead-thing that is. Just shoot that cop... >:(
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stop with the dramatized responses. The woman was a threat to herself and to society when she ran towards the road. She could have been hit and killed, the trooper could have been hit, or innocent bystanders could have been killed. Furthermore, if the trooper allowed her to escape by not using the taser or pursuing after her in traffic, then we would have a threat to society on the loose. She has already been involved in 2 hit-and-run accidents and clearly has little regard for the law hence her driving without a license and trying to escape. Who is to say the next time won't result in a death(s)? Like I have been saying from the beginning, it's unfortunate what happened to the woman but the trooper did what he had to do to put an end to the pursuit without risking her being a threat to herself or society.
Your responses are all "what ifs" and "could have happeneds"
Too bad that factually speaking, we have some and that None of those are FACTS.
What is a fact is that while the girl was certainly no saint, she didn't deserve to end up braindead... Which she IS.
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same thing happened to me about a year ago. cops pulled up on me, turned on their lights, wanted me to surrender.. walked up to the front of their car looked them in the eyes as i flipped them off and turned around and started running as fast as i could.. blacked out after about 20 yards.. woke up in an ambulance.. they tazed my ass once i started running, the full force of my body slaming down into the ground head first knocked me out..
i dont blame them.. i blame myself for running from them.
momma needs to accept it was her daughters fault, not the po po.
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The cop did the right thing. We can't have these thugs run the streets. :)
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Dumb bitch made poor decisions, and now she is paying the consequences. Freak accidents happen. The cop did NOTHING wrong. Is the outcome shitty? yes, it is...and unfortunate. But shit happens. the sooner you realize that in life, the sooner you'll refrain from making poor decisions.
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Your responses are all "what ifs" and "could have happeneds"
Too bad that factually speaking, we have some and that None of those are FACTS.
What is a fact is that while the girl was certainly no saint, she didn't deserve to end up braindead... Which she IS.
this situation could have played out many ways. You asked me to provide examples of how it could have been worse and I did. Just b/c it only played out one way (i.e. the girl ended up brain dead) doesn't mean that's how it would have turned out 99 out of 100 times. You are only looking at this situation with hindsight bias. This was a freak accident. We must treat it as the exception rather than the norm.
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this situation could have played out many ways. You asked me to provide examples of how it could have been worse and I did. Just b/c it only played out one way (i.e. the girl ended up brain dead) doesn't mean that's how it would have turned out 99 out of 100 times. You are only looking at this situation with hindsight bias. However, this was a freak accident. We must treat it as the exception rather than the norm.
So by your logic, shooting her because of the imminent danger would have also been acceptable?
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Dumb bitch made poor decisions, and now she is paying the consequences. Freak accidents happen. The cop did NOTHING wrong. Is the outcome shitty? yes, it is...and unfortunate. But shit happens. the sooner you realize that in life, the sooner you'll refrain from making poor decisions.
You're a telecaster dude ?
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So by your logic, shooting her because of the imminent danger would have also been acceptable?
look up "loaded question"
I never suggested anything remotely close to shooting at the woman with bullets
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look up "loaded question"
I never suggested anything remotely close to shooting at the woman with a gun
I thought a taser was designed to be the alternative to a gun? That's what they always say when they are used.
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I thought a taser was designed to be the alternative to a gun? That's what they always say when they are used.
I'm pretty sure tasers don't fire bullets but you're welcome to educate me if I'm wrong
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dumb bitch gets it for running from misdemeaner with cuffs on
agreed... fuck that whore, i'm glad he stopped her from wasting oxygen
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I'm pretty sure tasers don't fire bullets but you're welcome to educate me if I'm wrong
No, instead they shoot enough electricity in you to stop a bull. That's a lot better I guess.
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not very smart to run away handcuffed.
/end of thread.
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/end of thread.
bam
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No, instead they shoot enough electricity in you to stop a bull. That's a lot better I guess.
I've never heard of a taser blowing off someone's head, paralyzing someone, perforating a major blood vessel, or rupturing an organ
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You're a telecaster dude ?
Yeah, teles and semi hollow bodies (like an es 355) are my faves. ;D i'm currently saving up to do a semi hollow tele (dbl chamber, not like the traditional thinline teles) with a bigsby tremolo. humbucker at the neck, classic tele single coil at the bridge. should be SUUUWEEEET.
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If she's running away handcuffed she's obviously going to struggle when he catches her anyway, so who knows what injury's he could end up with trying to catch her.
Dumb enough to run away handcuffed = braindead anyway, waste of space in life. No respect for the law.
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As my dad says, "These cops are just criminals with a badge." He is a former police officer btw.
most cops have the same psychological profiles as criminals. so, when a cop pulls a gun on you, it's about the same as a dope dealing murderer. :-\
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POS c unt cop. >:(
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Fuck that fat fucken piece of shit cop. He was to fat to catch her so he tases her ??? It was over a misdamenor. Now she's braindead for the rest of her life. Cops aren't suppose to use tasers for someone who is fleeing. She's 20 years old, kids do stupid things. She mine as well be dead now!
ACTUALLY THIS IS NOT TRUE. MOST DEPARTMENTS USE OF POLICY PUT THE TASER BELOW USING PHYSICAL RESTRAINTS. SO TECH. HE WAS ALLOWED TO DO THIS
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Amazing the amount of uneducated, uniformed armchair police gurus in this thread. Cop did what was EXPECTED of him. Allowing a criminal to escape would be a serious breach of his duty so picking her up at home later is not an option.
As for tackling her instead of tasing her? 267 pounds tackling a tiny crack head woman = 100% injury to the woman and potential injury to the officer.
Tasing the woman = 1/10 000 chance of injury to woman (real stat, not made up bullshit, read a peer reviewed article FFS).
And not one single person has mentioned the real problem here. The girl ran away because she was probably found with a couple of rocks on her, or a small amount of meth and was scared of going to jail for the rest of her life because she has an addiction. If the American system was to due away with this ridiculous "War On Drugs" and treat drug addicts as medical/ social problems like the rest of the modern world does, she probably wouldn't have cared if the cops picked her up.
I work with drug addicts/mentally disordered everyday, and when someone gets to violent so that verbal communication won't make them leave our facility we call the police, who arrive, and VERY RARELY ever make an arrest. Usually just their presence is enough to make the addict calm down. And if they DO go to jail then it is only for a week or two, and allows them time to start getting clean and out of their addiction.
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LOL your not too bright I see. She was a drug user, you think she was running to protect her life? 20 year old with a criminal record and drug abuse and you think she values her life and freedom?!
Do you suggest he should have chased after her? Do you know what a 267 pound man taking down a 100 pound addict could have done.
Using a tazer is always safer then tackling someone.
L0L HE D0SEN'T NEED T0 TACKLE HER. HIS 267 LB FAT ASS CAN EASILY GRAB AND RESTRAIN HER WITH0UT EXCESSIVE F0RCE.
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Amazing the amount of uneducated, uniformed armchair police gurus in this thread. Cop did what was EXPECTED of him. Allowing a criminal to escape would be a serious breach of his duty so picking her up at home later is not an option.
As for tackling her instead of tasing her? 267 pounds tackling a tiny crack head woman = 100% injury to the woman and potential injury to the officer.
Tasing the woman = 1/10 000 chance of injury to woman (real stat, not made up bullshit, read a peer reviewed article FFS).
And not one single person has mentioned the real problem here. The girl ran away because she was probably found with a couple of rocks on her, or a small amount of meth and was scared of going to jail for the rest of her life because she has an addiction. If the American system was to due away with this ridiculous "War On Drugs" and treat drug addicts as medical/ social problems like the rest of the modern world does, she probably wouldn't have cared if the cops picked her up.
I work with drug addicts/mentally disordered everyday, and when someone gets to violent so that verbal communication won't make them leave our facility we call the police, who arrive, and VERY RARELY ever make an arrest. Usually just their presence is enough to make the addict calm down. And if they DO go to jail then it is only for a week or two, and allows them time to start getting clean and out of their addiction.
SIGH. HE D0SEN'T NEED T0 TACKLE HER.
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SIGH. HE D0SEN'T NEED T0 TACKLE HER.
Lol at you thinking that a fat overweight cop can catch a sprinting, high on meth, person without an all out football tackle. You have no experience in dealing with people using drugs.
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What a POS cop. >:(
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Unfortunately in this situation consequences will never be the same. hopefully her family has contacted the cyber police.
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not sure why there is so much hate for cops on here.hind sight is always 20/20. my guess that he wishes he could go back and do things differently. the girl should not have ran and its unfortunate what happened to her..but all in all SHE caused he her injury by actions
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What a POS cop. >:(
he is just doing his job. if you run out of a police station after being arrested you should be expecting to get tazed or worse. guys trying to escape prison are liable to get a bullet in the back of the head.
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same thing happened to me about a year ago. cops pulled up on me, turned on their lights, wanted me to surrender.. walked up to the front of their car looked them in the eyes as i flipped them off and turned around and started running as fast as i could.. blacked out after about 20 yards.. woke up in an ambulance.. they tazed my ass once i started running, the full force of my body slaming down into the ground head first knocked me out..
i dont blame them.. i blame myself for running from them.
momma needs to accept it was her daughters fault, not the po po.
You're a Getbigger to the core. Of everyone here why doesn't it surprise you'd pull off something stupid like that? ::)
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because im the only badass that doesnt give a fuck , thats why
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this is very sad indeed. however running from police is very silly. this wouldn't have happened if she didn't run.
in my country if you try to escape custody the police are given shoot to kill. doesn't matter if this is a serial killer making a run for it, or a kid who got arrested for stealing a chocolate bar.
the police officer was only doing his job.
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she was not cuffed. didnt appear to have any brain damage either.
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did his job well. all around big dude!
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she was not cuffed. didnt appear to have any brain damage either.
yeah she sat up. i suppose she could starting bleeding in the brain. but i wonder if part is even true
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yeah she sat up. i suppose she could starting bleeding in the brain. but i wonder if part is even true
yes brain damage often occurs from internal bleeding inside the brain and the subsequent buildup of pressure inside the skull, so you wouldn't notice it right away
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Kudos to the to the cop. He did the right thing. This was a low-life drug user with a record who was running from police. It's just beyond me that people can defend these scum and vilify cops. It's not like cops are randomly beating up upstanding citizens. It's always the same kind of person who gets nailed by cops: a lowlife with a record who's running from or fighting the police. Frankly, I'm glad cops give these assholes a whooping. And as far as tasing vs. tackling the girl, even if he had tackled her, she still would have been at risk for a head injury. Hell, if anything you could argue she might have hit her head with a greater force if he had tackled her. And then we would have heard: "Oh, why did he have to tackle her on the cement???"
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Are there no fitness "Benchmarks" for being a cop?
At a pudgy 267lbs this guy couldn't run 100 yards without sucking wind. Pathetic.
The best and the brightest ::)
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off season
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LOL your not too bright I see. She was a drug user, you think she was running to protect her life? 20 year old with a criminal record and drug abuse and you think she values her life and freedom?!
Do you suggest he should have chased after her? Do you know what a 267 pound man taking down a 100 pound addict could have done.
Using a tazer is always safer then tackling someone.
what does being a drug addict have to do with breaking police policy and using excessive force, clearly it was excessive since the outcome does not match the crime. Dude gave her a life sentence for running because he is stupid.
lets see, as a superior intellect lets point out the assumptions you have made to form your sentence.
you state she is a drug user as evidence she doesn't value her life, this implicates that all drug users are suicidal, you have no reason to believe. From her actions she clearly values her life and freedom what do you think these people are autonomous robots that have no self preservation? go read a book.
nice assumption with no evidence as usual that tackling is more dangerous then taser usage. The assumption is wrong, as a doctor i can tell you that running a current through someone without medical history is clearly more dangerous then tackling someone. Also, she was 100 pounds you are acting as if he would have to break her in half to stop her, lol.
So many stupid fucks on this board.
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Kudos to the to the cop. He did the right thing. This was a low-life drug user with a record who was running from police. It's just beyond me that people can defend these scum and vilify cops. It's not like cops are randomly beating up upstanding citizens. It's always the same kind of person who gets nailed by cops: a lowlife with a record who's running from or fighting the police. Frankly, I'm glad cops give these assholes a whooping. And as far as tasing vs. tackling the girl, even if he had tackled her, she still would have been at risk for a head injury. Hell, if anything you could argue she might have hit her head with a greater force if he had tackled her. And then we would have heard: "Oh, why did he have to tackle her on the cement???"
CALM THE FUCK DOWN!
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The cop should be tasered daily for the rest of his life. All fat people should be, btw...
8)
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Worse than braindead for a misdemeanor?
HaHAHAHA!! Do you honestly believe this?
Please tell me what absolutely improbable thing you will say could be "worse".
Fact. Girl was no danger to anyone.
Fact. Girl was tased from behind.
Fact. Girl is braindead.
What "what if" scenario would you like to present that is even remotely "likely"?
seriously were do these people go to school? they are basing everything on assumptions just like the stupid police officer instead of looking at the fucking facts.
POLICY STATES
do not tase in the back bro, especially for misdemeanor. This policy indicates that the majority of cops think this is the proper policy, its not discretionary on any given day.
hes acting like she was going ot run into traffic cause a 20 car pile up and the fact that the very remote chance that this can happen indicates she deserves to be tased in the back against policy while fucking handcuffed, lol that adds even more discretion to the situation.
whats more likely tasing someone in the back that is running handcuffed which can clearly and i would say more then likely lead to injury and serious injury, or chasing her down and grabbing her, or letting her go because risking lives is not worth it for a misdemeanor.
the war on fucking drugs is stupid anyway
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no one claimed anything remotely close to mind reading or advocated using the most force
if you watch the video, you can see she is running towards US-19, and the distance between the road and the station is not much.
ironic that you accuse me of "assuming" up above and then you make the assumption the woman wouldn't be crazy enough to run into traffic after she was already involved in 2 hit-and-run accidents, was driving with a suspended license, and had cocaine in her system. lol
I already addressed this
yes you are mind reading, go read about it in cbt, you are making unfounded assumptions that have little probability and ignoring the higher probability outcomes, irrational.
so is someone not allowed to run towards highways? that commands breaking police policy and risking someones life on the assumption she may risk others?
running into traffic and fucking hitting someone in a car are a bit different, you acting as though they are the same is laughable. However, i grant you all those points, she clearly used drugs and shouldn't be driving, theres no laws against running under the influence. Seriously, the outcome doesn't come close to matching the crime, thus something went wrong. We know what went wrong the officer broke policy and decided that risking her life 100% was better then risking others at a much lower probability. I'm not suggesting not to stop her but the weapon utilization shouldn't be on the table while shes running, handcuffed clearly the risk to her life is greatly exaggerated in this context.
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wow, some of you are defending this douchebag. next, getting gunned with shackles on your ankles while running away will be legit for cops.
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I've never heard of a taser blowing off someone's head, paralyzing someone, perforating a major blood vessel, or rupturing an organ
so i have never heard of a gun stopping someones heart, inducing intractable seizures, causing people to smash there head on the ground and become a vegetable. Its safer but it's still has lethal outcomes or outcomes that are terrible. A gun can be lethal just like a taser, however, it is more lethal.
This juxtaposition you implying doesn't make any sense.
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The fat fuck should have been able to catch her......bottom line IMO.
If you are an overweight cop,stick to a desk job.
Drug user doesn`t equate to dangerous criminal in every case, and this poor kid only weighed 100 pounds.
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so i have never heard of a gun stopping someones heart, inducing intractable seizures, causing people to smash there head on the ground and become a vegetable. Its safer but it's still has lethal outcomes or outcomes that are terrible. A gun can be lethal just like a taser, however, it is more lethal.
This juxtaposition you implying doesn't make any sense.
Sigh, why do getbiggers do this? You, Bombz and SMM all use words like this that fit in so well on a BB board whos main theme is men in thongs and the GHona of the month. This rant has nothing to do with the topic at hand, just something I have noticed lately on this board. Carry on...
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the fact that the cop stays on duty says mountains about your typical leo ,he has no remorse.wheather it is justified or not he directly caused the girl serious bodily harm.if it were anyone else even 10 yr.old kids plying around they would be held responsible.they have a fucked up reasoning process and most people except it as logical, especialy women, and they are the most vocal propnents of the fucked up laws.our forfathers were very much correct that women should not be able to vote.
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whoever wrote this aritcle is not biased at all ::)
k
what does weight have to do with it? I could understand if he was restraining her and she broke free. Then it would reflect his incompetence since he has the size and strength advantage. Also, why does the article refer to the 20 year old as a "girl" when she is legally an adult?
it indicates that if he could and should of caught her it wouldnt require much force to stop her, indicating that using a taser was over the top, she was small he was big, thus not much force would be required. Why dont you look up the definition of girl, i bet the people that think bush did 9/11 think girl is conspicuous here.
well there you have it. The woman broke the law, was caught, then broke another law by trying to escape, and unfortunately suffered the consequences of her actions. No one could have predicted she would end up brain dead. This was a freak accident if anything.
oh my god the LAW.......... no matter the moral ground for the law, nor the validity of the law need be questioned, she broke the law she got what she deserved your right, next time she wont think about fleaing on foot, oh wait she cant walk
you left this piece of information out. From the same article:
An Office of Inspector General Investigation Unit report states: "Although the FHP policy on Electronic Control Devices states that a member should not use the device on a handcuffed prisoner, it also provides that there may be situations that conflict with this policy."
sure all this proves is that there are situations which require rational thought, clearly this wasn't one of them because i can easily rebut these insane arguments. What situations? was this one of the them? what criteria are the using? is this as far as you read?
The report goes on to state: "In this situation, Maudsley ... removed one of her handcuffs while in the back of Cole's patrol car, and moved her handcuffs from behind her back, to in front of her body, as she attempted to flee the FHP Station. In addition, Maudsley was running towards US Highway 19 which is a high volume road."
a high volume road, you right tase her. I get that the risk is there but you have to take it becasue the risk of tasing her in the back to her life is imminent and obvious, you are a fan of mindreading. She was going to cause a car accident and thus she is putting people's lives at risk, thus it's justified to risk hers. Only one has solid evidence behind the assumption which one is it?
The Florida Department of Law Enforcement conducted an independent review of the incident," FHP spokesperson Sgt. Steve Gaskins said. "Their investigation found that the trooper's actions were legal and within the scope of his duties.
In the report, Cole said he chose to use the taser because he "felt she was more susceptible to being injured if he attempted to tackle her." Cole weighs approximately 267 pounds."
um no, why would he have to tackle her? what is the concern of tackling his bodyweight crushing her? lol how is that more risky then paralyzing someone from behind on concrete while running with her hands tied together, LOLOLOL it's fucking absurd.................. ............... the fact that im responding is laughable, the fact that you can't tell the police response is biased yet you are curious about the word fucking GIRL indicates you have checked out, you have made up your mind and are immune to reason. its obvious both sides are embellishing however, i see past this and look at the facts, you for some reason are concerned with an article trying to make the girl sound innocent by using the correct fucking word.
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Sigh, why do getbiggers do this? You, Bombz and SMM all use words like this that fit in so well on a BB board whos main theme is men in thongs and the GHona of the month. This rant has nothing to do with the topic at hand, just something I have noticed lately on this board. Carry on...
sorry my life in intellectual i guess i have a hard time not talking like that in argument. In argument i tend to attempt to articulate my points well or at least try to, sorry this annoys you perhaps you should read more books.
the word simplified what i was trying to say and did it in a better fashion, if we were discussing something else i would talk different, we are having a serious discussion i thought. i guess you abhor maturity.
im kidding, im a troll.
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i hate these violent power tripping cops
in fact i hate cops in general
especially female cops
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especially female cops
Haha, yea...
Female cops like female soldiers are among the biggest jokes of our times for sure !!
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Haha, yea...
Female cops like female soldiers are among the biggest jokes of our times for sure !!
female cops are just scared little bitches that have ego problems
like to shout and provoke people, when shit hits the fan they are nowhere to be found
hiding behind their white knight colleagues backing up their cottage cheese saggy donut asses
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everyone of you bitches having a go at the cops
wouldn't last five mins in the uniform
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everyone of you bitches having a go at the cops
wouldn't last five mins in the uniform
everyone of you bitches having a go at pedophiles
wouldn't last five minutes in their world
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everyone of you bitches having a go at pedophiles
wouldn't last five minutes in their world
???
you a fucking retard bro
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???
you a fucking retard bro
just copying your retard logic to make you snap out of it
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just copying your retard logic to make you snap out of it
ah so you are
keep popping the pills big guy ::)
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ah so you are
keep popping the pills big guy ::)
keep twirling that baton and smashing handcuffed negroes in the face with it
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everyone of you bitches having a go at the cops
wouldn't last five mins in the uniform
???
she ran out of a station, had already been checked for weapons. what fucking harm an 100lb drug addict running bitch to no where is going to do with tight hand cuffs on? man, be real. only difference is if that had been in louisiana that fucker would have pulled his gun and shot her in the back of the head and probably would have planted a gun when the camera turned. then again, louisiana cops like to cap retards on ramps after hurricanes.
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Cops are paranoid and scared stiff of their constituency......always stuffed inside their police cruisers and armed to the teeth with military-grade weaponry.....their fat, 40+ inch bat-belt accessorized with the latest tools and equipment that let them serve the populace....friendly items such as cuffs, pepper spray, tasers, and sidearm........patrollin g on taxpayers' money within those very same taxpayer's neighborhoods acting as if they are in Fallujah.
At least there are some great organizations out there combined with citizen awareness that ensure some cops lose their job or go to prison for getting caught doing something dirty......items like this are in the news everyday.
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???
she ran out of a station, had already been checked for weapons. what fucking harm an 100lb drug addict running bitch to no where is going to do with tight hand cuffs on? man, be real. only difference is if that had been in louisiana that fucker would have pulled his gun and shot her in the back of the head and probably would have planted a gun when the camera turned. then again, louisiana cops like to cap retards on raps after hurricanes.
she ran - the end
sure he should have tackled her but she put herself in the situation that gave him the option
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I think those tasers should be used only in emergency when the cop is in danger for his own safety. there has been to many cases where people had heart attacks and other injuries from it.
yes that girl was dumb as hell for running never the less that cop was just lazy and sadistic.
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she ran - the end
sure he should have tackled her but she put herself in the situation that gave him the option
lol you retards always do this in these threads
justifying excessive use of force
"she had it coming"
"her own fault"
etcetera
would you use the same logic on a normal person using excessive force?
police officers are supposed to be held accountable to a higher degree, not get a free pass to taze old ladies
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yes you are mind reading, go read about it in cbt, you are making unfounded assumptions that have little probability and ignoring the higher probability outcomes, irrational.
so is someone not allowed to run towards highways? that commands breaking police policy and risking someones life on the assumption she may risk others?
running into traffic and fucking hitting someone in a car are a bit different, you acting as though they are the same is laughable. However, i grant you all those points, she clearly used drugs and shouldn't be driving, theres no laws against running under the influence. Seriously, the outcome doesn't come close to matching the crime, thus something went wrong. We know what went wrong the officer broke policy and decided that risking her life 100% was better then risking others at a much lower probability. I'm not suggesting not to stop her but the weapon utilization shouldn't be on the table while shes running, handcuffed clearly the risk to her life is greatly exaggerated in this context.
You are the one who is "mind reading." Watch the video. The woman clearly runs towards US-19, which is a busy road. The trooper who was there and had a better vantage point than us also says the woman was heading towards the road. Now let's the review the facts. She had already been involved in two hit-and-run accidents, was driving without a license, slipped off her handcuff in the back of the patrol cruiser, fled from the station, and had cocaine in her system. The woman clearly had little regard for the law and there's no telling what could have happened if she escaped. Maybe third time is the charm and the next hit-and-run might kill someone.
The trooper said she had a head-start and was running in the direction of US-19. I would estimate the distance between the station and the road to be no more than 100 feet based on the video. It was the length of a small parking lot. The trooper had to make a split second decision to put an end to the pursuit and he chose to tase her. An investigation by The Florida Department of Law Enforcement determined that his actions were justified. I will trust their knowledge of the law and expertise over an anonymous poster on GetBig
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so i have never heard of a gun stopping someones heart, inducing intractable seizures, causing people to smash there head on the ground and become a vegetable. Its safer but it's still has lethal outcomes or outcomes that are terrible. A gun can be lethal just like a taser, however, it is more lethal.
This juxtaposition you implying doesn't make any sense.
oh yeah? A gun can't stop a person's heart? What do you think would happen if you took a bullet to the left chest where your heart is? Intractable seizures? I guess that's worse than having your brains blown out. ::) How common is it for a taser to stop someone's heart or induce an intractable seizure? Where are the statistics? As for "causing people to smash their head on the ground and become a vegetable," that's an indirect result - not a direct result - of the taser. That's like saying chasing after criminals is bad b/c the criminal may slip and land on his head, causing him to become a vegetable
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Dear satan.
These cops are too much.
Here we have a fat fuck with a badge tasering some little chick because she, likely in fright, bolts.
I HATE this fatass fuck. Shoot him in the face.
I am disgusted.
Her little sob after she falls breaks my heart. :'(
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The Florida Highway Patrol have cleared 267-pound Trooper Daniel Cole of wrongdoing and have released a disturbing dash cam video that captured him tasing a 100 pound, 20 year old handcuffed girl in the back as she fled. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement determined Trooper Daniel Cole's "use of force" was justified when he tased the woman last September at the FHP Pinellas Park Substation and cleared him of wrongdoing. The fleeing woman, Danielle Maudsley, 20, suffered severe brain damage after hitting her head on the concrete and has been in a persistent vegetative state ever since.
The video shows Maudsley fleeing a back door of the substation with Cole following closely behind
Maudsley's mother said the trooper should have used other means to stop her daughter from fleeing. "He was right behind her. He could've reached out," Maudsley said. "It was unnecessary." The mother hired defense attorney Kevin Haylsett, who put FHP on notice for a lawsuit. Hayslett said Cole violated FHP's taser policy which states: "Fleeing cannot be the sole reason for the deployment." "When you shoot someone in the back, and they're running away, all that force -- as you saw when Danielle's head hit the concrete -- that's why they don't allow you to do that, because you can have horrible tragedies like this," Hayslett said.
- Discuss
So, what we learn about this? When you are handcuffed and arrested, shut the fuck up and obey the orders. That is all. If you are arrested for what ever reason, obey orders what is given to you by the police. If not, shut the fuck up, if you are hurt by police. Very simple. You doesn't have to agree with them, but you must obey the orders. Otherwise, they may kill you. Very simple thing to understand. Police is the ultimate force in your country, so don't fuck with them. You will get hurt. The path of least effort is always to obey orders and see what happens.
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So, what we learn about this? When you are handcuffed and arrested, shut the fuck up and obey the orders. That is all. If you are arrested for what ever reason, obey orders what is given to you by the police. If not, shut the fuck up, if you are hurt by police. Very simple. You doesn't have to agree with them, but you must obey the orders. Otherwise, they may kill you. Very simple thing to understand. Police is the ultimate force in your country, so don't fuck with them. You will get hurt. The path of least effort is always to obey orders and see what happens.
x2 plus: never touch a fat cops donut, especially when handcuffed....
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The law is never wrong.
Enforcement of law is morally correct
Obedience to authority is morally correct
If the law is wrong...the law is never wrong.
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As my dad says, "These cops are just criminals with a badge." He is a former police officer btw.
Then your dad was a criminal and is rationalizing his own criminal perverted behavior by painting all cops with the same broad brush your dad sucked on... JMHO
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Cops clear their buddies of any wrongdoing. Who would've thought..
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Running away from a cop while in handcuffs, Just plain stupid....
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Very confused as to how the use of force was justified in this one... Seems it would be akin to shooting a fleeing subject in the back.
\
I'll walk you through it Tu..
Most reasonable people know that if you shoot someone in the back with a hand gun it has a MUCH more likelihood of causing death or serious bodily harm. However study after study and after thousands of actual uses, it has been determined that tasering someone in the back has a substantially lower risk factor than shooting them. I know..sounds fishy right? But you can't argue science.
Now, being someone who has both tackled and used a Taser on someone I know that in this scenario, 9 times out of 10, it won't end well for the handcuffed subject. But here is the kicker.... the cop still has to catch her somehow. Typically, if you eliminate the taser, cops generally either tackle, or push the running subject around the shoulders to send them sprawling to the ground. In most cases, this results in road rash and a possible concussion either way.. In some cases no matter what the cop does to stop the fleeing subject, tragedy strikes and serious damage is caused. Which leads me to my final point.. If you don't want to take the risk of having brain damage from a freak accident, DON'T run from the cops...
Hope this helps you get your brain around it Tu
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not sure why there is so much hate for cops on here.hind sight is always 20/20. my guess that he wishes he could go back and do things differently. the girl should not have ran and its unfortunate what happened to her..but all in all SHE caused he her injury by actions
Exactly. Cops not sitting around the campfire at night laughing about it.. Probably can't get the sound of her head hitting the pavement out of his mind..
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Are there no fitness "Benchmarks" for being a cop?
At a pudgy 267lbs this guy couldn't run 100 yards without sucking wind. Pathetic.
The best and the brightest ::)
And you do....?
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what does being a drug addict have to do with breaking police policy and using excessive force, clearly it was excessive since the outcome does not match the crime. Dude gave her a life sentence for running because he is stupid.
lets see, as a superior intellect lets point out the assumptions you have made to form your sentence.
you state she is a drug user as evidence she doesn't value her life, this implicates that all drug users are suicidal, you have no reason to believe. From her actions she clearly values her life and freedom what do you think these people are autonomous robots that have no self preservation? go read a book.
nice assumption with no evidence as usual that tackling is more dangerous then taser usage. The assumption is wrong, as a doctor i can tell you that running a current through someone without medical history is clearly more dangerous then tackling someone. Also, she was 100 pounds you are acting as if he would have to break her in half to stop her, lol.
So many stupid fucks on this board.
Speaking of stupid fucks... hi ;)
You cannot determine what is reasonable force solely based on the outcome. That would be ludicrous. ANY use of force has the potential to result in some freak accidental outcome. What person would put on a uniform if held to such a ridiculous standard?
I didn't take that drunk driver into custody because I was afraid if I put my hands on him he could pull back and what if his head hit the curb? He could die and I would be charged with excessive force....
I didnt...well you get the point.. I hope
Use of force standards are in place well before the officer hits the streets. They are fashioned as reasonable as possible. We KNOW Tasers have a short term effect on the body and are deemed safe 99% of the time. We have policies about using electronic devices on people who are obviously pregnant, obviously juvenile, obviously covered in flammable liquids etc etc.. We have rules against using them on handcuffed subjects in most cases.
This cop in this case apparently followed the rules, she did not. 9 times out of 10 that would have ended with her back in custody with road rash. It is really fucktards like you, no offense, that live in this Alice in Wonderland world that really need to just shut the fuck up and buy a clue.
Again, no offense.
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serve and protect LOL
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the fact that the cop stays on duty says mountains about your typical leo ,he has no remorse.wheather it is justified or not he directly caused the girl serious bodily harm.if it were anyone else even 10 yr.old kids plying around they would be held responsible.they have a fucked up reasoning process and most people except it as logical, especialy women, and they are the most vocal propnents of the fucked up laws.our forfathers were very much correct that women should not be able to vote.
You'll be on here next week whining about personal responsibility in some other thread..
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Your responses are all "what ifs" and "could have happeneds"
Too bad that factually speaking, we have some and that None of those are FACTS.
What is a fact is that while the girl was certainly no saint, she didn't deserve to end up braindead... Which she IS.
Fact - She was under arrest and attempted to escape
Fact- Taser, whether you admit it or not (Irrelevant) is deemed less than lethal force
Fact- He had a duty to take her back into custody
Fact- He used an authorized means to do so. A means that has been deployed thousands of times with success
Fact- She brought this upon herself
No one will argue that she did not "deserve" to end up brain dead, However when you weigh the options of trying to escape you should probably put somewhere on that list that the cops will try and catch you and bad things could happen to include death and or brain damage in the ensuing chase.
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\
I'll walk you through it Tu..
Most reasonable people know that if you shoot someone in the back with a hand gun it has a MUCH more likelihood of causing death or serious bodily harm. However study after study and after thousands of actual uses, it has been determined that tasering someone in the back has a substantially lower risk factor than shooting them. I know..sounds fishy right? But you can't argue science.
Now, being someone who has both tackled and used a Taser on someone I know that in this scenario, 9 times out of 10, it won't end well for the handcuffed subject. But here is the kicker.... the cop still has to catch her somehow. Typically, if you eliminate the taser, cops generally either tackle, or push the running subject around the shoulders to send them sprawling to the ground. In most cases, this results in road rash and a possible concussion either way.. In some cases no matter what the cop does to stop the fleeing subject, tragedy strikes and serious damage is caused. Which leads me to my final point.. If you don't want to take the risk of having brain damage from a freak accident, DON'T run from the cops...
Hope this helps you get your brain around it Tu
I knew you would eventually jump in on this thread.
I appreciate your input, but I'm afraid that it does not.
We have a life sentence akin to the death penalty for fleeing for a misdemeanor.
These are the reasons that you can't shoot someone in the back.
So nope. Sorry. Still doesn't make it ok to me.
Of course I hate cops and make no bones about it.
As far as the dickwad said as far as not making it in the uniform... It doesn't take much to be a cop. A clean record with a passing psych eval and you can do it.
Real tough job to get right?
All those impossible perquisites. Hahaha!!
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Running away from a cop while in handcuffs, Just plain stupid....
"got the authority to kill a minority".....
Did not watch link, do not care.
Don't want to get tasered - don't get arrested or do illegal shit that gets you tasered.
Don't want to be treated like a criminal - stop breaking the law.
Don't want your kid to end up a veggie - raise them properly.
Ain't fuckin' rocket surgery gents! ;D
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I knew you would eventually jump in on this thread.
I appreciate your input, but I'm afraid that it does not.
We have a life sentence akin to the death penalty for fleeing for a misdemeanor.
These are the reasons that you can't shoot someone in the back.
So nope. Sorry. Still doesn't make it ok to me.
Of course I hate cops and make no bones about it.
As far as the dickwad said as far as not making it in the uniform... It doesn't take much to be a cop. A clean record with a passing psych eval and you can do it.
Real tough job to get right?
All those impossible perquisites. Hahaha!!
Always a pleasure to see ya Tu..
Once again, you speak without knowing what you are talking about...
10 to 1 you couldn't get hired on at any mid to large city department. No offense, but it's not for everyone.
You really can't seem to grasp the difference between using deadly force, knowing the likely outcome is death or serious bodily injury and deploying a less lethal option that against the odds, causes serious bodily injury.
Line out for me how you, at 267 lbs, would have caught her? Tackle? She could hit her head. Trip her? She could hit her head. Both are legal methods. Would you run past her, wait for her to run into your arms, then gently lower her to the ground? Perhaps shoot a net gun you fashioned at home for just these circumstances? Maybe just let her go, after all, she's not really a "criminal"...
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Don't run.
Booom, end of thread.
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lol you retards always do this in these threads
justifying excessive use of force
"she had it coming"
"her own fault"
etcetera
would you use the same logic on a normal person using excessive force?
police officers are supposed to be held accountable to a higher degree, not get a free pass to taze old ladies
i am speaking from experience
you are speaking from your moms basement
end of argument
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i am speaking from experience
you are speaking from your moms basement
end of argument
u mean from my daddy's appartment
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1)To be fair, i dont think if she WASNT handcuffed, she was able to break her fall. she fell on her ass, her head whiplashed backwards,... its not like she was cuffed in the back and fell head first to the ground...
2) why the fuck would you run away from cops when you have been cuffed? that shit just gives the cops a reason to justify pretty much anything. Just like the vid someone posted a few weeks ago of a cop shooting some crackhead 10+ times at a Carl's Jr because he "flinched" with a metal/pipe or whatever the fuck it was in his hand. here is a tip, when your in cuffs, dont start running away. heres another tip, when cops have pulled their guns on you according to the 21ft rule, just stay calm and no sudden motions. dont reach on your pocket for your cell phone or some shit. dont give them a reason to justofy exesive force
3) i feel bad for the girl, this was one of those terrible accident. Tasers have been used "relatively safely", this was just a freak accident. I mean if the cop had tased her in the spine and caused her nerve damage, thats a totally different story. Bu the cop tased a "fugitive" ( someone running from the law)< and the cop tased her. It wasnt the tase that gave her brain damage, it was her head hittting the ground. For all intents and purposes, the cop couldve tackled the girl, and her hit her head on the groud the same way and give her a brain damage
im all again cops using exxesive force, but in this case, i will just call it a freak accident. Its not like the other clip of the cop kicking the woman behind her head while she was cuffed, this was simply a freak accident
i know i'll get hate for this, but im calling it as i see it
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1)To be fair, i dont think if she WASNT handcuffed, she was able to break her fall. she fell on her ass, her head whiplashed backwards,... its not like she was cuffed in the back and fell head first to the ground...
2) why the fuck would you run away from cops when you have been cuffed? that shit just gives the cops a reason to justify pretty much anything. Just like the vid someone posted a few weeks ago of a cop shooting some crackhead 10+ times at a Carl's Jr because he "flinched" with a metal/pipe or whatever the fuck it was in his hand. here is a tip, when your in cuffs, dont start running away. heres another tip, when cops have pulled their guns on you according to the 21ft rule, just stay calm and no sudden motions. dont reach on your pocket for your cell phone or some shit. dont give them a reason to justofy exesive force
3) i feel bad for the girl, this was one of those terrible accident. Tasers have been used "relatively safely", this was just a freak accident. I mean if the cop had tased her in the spine and caused her nerve damage, thats a totally different story. Bu the cop tased a "fugitive" ( someone running from the law)< and the cop tased her. It wasnt the tase that gave her brain damage, it was her head hittting the ground. For all intents and purposes, the cop couldve tackled the girl, and her hit her head on the groud the same way and give her a brain damage
im all again cops using exxesive force, but in this case, i will just call it a freak accident. Its not like the other clip of the cop kicking the woman behind her head while she was cuffed, this was simply a freak accident
i know i'll get hate for this, but im calling it as i see it
nah, you're dead on.. good post
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http://www.baynews9.com/article/news/2012/february/383311/Exclusive:-Trooper-defends-tasing-new-video-shows-suspect-out-of-handcuffs.html
http://www.baynews9.com/article/news/2012/february/382985/Exclusive:-Video-released-after-trooper-cleared-in-tasing-of-fleeing-woman
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(http://64.19.142.11/www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=415649.0;attach=457972;image)
his wife... i'd hit it
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Always a pleasure to see ya Tu..
Once again, you speak without knowing what you are talking about...
10 to 1 you couldn't get hired on at any mid to large city department. No offense, but it's not for everyone.
You really can't seem to grasp the difference between using deadly force, knowing the likely outcome is death or serious bodily injury and deploying a less lethal option that against the odds, causes serious bodily injury.
Line out for me how you, at 267 lbs, would have caught her? Tackle? She could hit her head. Trip her? She could hit her head. Both are legal methods. Would you run past her, wait for her to run into your arms, then gently lower her to the ground? Perhaps shoot a net gun you fashioned at home for just these circumstances? Maybe just let her go, after all, she's not really a "criminal"...
At 267 pounds of tub of lard he wasn't tackling shit... His fat ass couldn't even catch a cold at his weight.
I have no doubt that I would be able to pass the process.
There was a time when I thought that might have even been my career path, but decided against it.
Don't talk about what you don't know.
Do you think that in that instance, with a cuffed person, that the less dangerous option was the taser?
I disagree, but hey... What do I know?
Oh wait... I know there's a girl who is a vegetable and a fat ass out of shape cop who couldn't run 3 feet without huffing and puffing.
I know THAT... What do you know?
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Do you think that in that instance, with a cuffed person, that the less dangerous option was the taser?
yes. The girl fled the holding station and headed towards a busy road. She was a threat to herself and to society. If he didn't tase her and she was hit by a car and killed or escaped and was involved in another hit-and-run that killed someone, then you would be whining about how the trooper should have tased her. The trooper did what he had to do to put an end to the pursuit and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement cleared him of any wrongdoing.
I disagree, but hey... What do I know?
Oh wait... I know there's a girl who is a vegetable and a fat ass out of shape cop who couldn't run 3 feet without huffing and puffing.
I know THAT... What do you know?
I know that an investigation by authorities on law enforcement determined that his actions were justified. No offense, but I will trust their knowledge of the law and expertise over an anonymous poster on GetBig.
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give that officer a medal!
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yes. The girl fled the holding station and headed towards a busy road. She was a threat to herself and to society. If he didn't tase her and she was hit by a car and killed or escaped and was involved in another hit-and-run that killed someone, then you would be whining about how the trooper should have tased her. The trooper did what he had to do to put an end to the pursuit and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement cleared him of any wrongdoing.
I know that an investigation by authorities on law enforcement determined that his actions were justified. No offense, but I will trust their knowledge of the law and expertise over an anonymous poster on GetBig.
Who's anonymous?
This is my real name. Not some made up shit like NeoSeminole
If you trust law enforcement, you are in for a rude awakening one day.
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It was a freak accident.
But seriously; the cops should have NEVER let that girl run out of the house in the first place. What did they do? Cuff her and turn their backs on her?? If you cuff a suspect. Keep them in your sight.
PS: you cant run fast when you are handcuffed.... So dont try it
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the cop was offseason. running would have put him into a catabolic state. tasing a 110 pound cuffed woman is actually anabolic, studies show.
whole situation is bad, but if she had run into traffic and a busload of nuns would have crashed into a truck of baby seals, it would have been 'why didn't you stop her, officer'.
but yeah, he wanted her to feel a little pain, so he didn't tackle. legal yet shitty.
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the cop was offseason. running would have put him into a catabolic state. tasing a 110 pound cuffed woman is actually anabolic, studies show.
whole situation is bad, but if she had run into traffic and a busload of nuns would have crashed into a truck of baby seals, it would have been 'why didn't you stop her, officer'.
but yeah, he wanted her to feel a little pain, so he didn't tackle. legal yet shitty.
post of the month, and funny as well
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Now she's braindead for the rest of her life.
lol
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Classic pigs being pigs. Nothing new here at all.
Oh, running in handcuffs. . . ;D
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Quite the family! We're really gonna miss young Danielle's contributions to society.
http://florida.arrests.org/search.php?fname=First+Name&lname=maudsley&fpartial=True
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When I read this kind of thread I realize that most guys reading the site have never had a real job with any kind of rules or responsibility.
Of course the girl shouldn't have run. Yes, she is a dumb bitch and a criminal. Maybe even it is ok to think "serves her right". Cops still have protocols they must follow when suspects flee, attack etc. Only in exceptional circumstances is a FH patrolman to taze someone placed in handcuffs. It is a rule that they do not do it unless it is the absolute last resort and mortal danger is imminent. Being too slow to catch her is not an excuse.
They are going to get sued so obviously their own inquiry is going to find innocent otherwize they may as well settle out of court now for 30 million dollars.
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Of course the girl shouldn't have run. Yes, she is a dumb bitch and a criminal. Maybe even it is ok to think "serves her right". Cops still have protocols they must follow when suspects flee, attack etc. Only in exceptional circumstances is a FH patrolman to taze someone placed in handcuffs. It is a rule that they do not do it unless it is the absolute last resort and mortal danger is imminent.
in this particular situation, a taser was the last resort. The girl was running towards a busy road and could have killed herself, the trooper, or an automobile driver. Also, if she got away she could be involved in another hit-and-run accident and kill someone. The trooper did what he had to do. It's unfortunate the end result but no one could have foreseen this would happen. If so, there would be laws in place saying tasers cannot be used in parking lots under any circumstances. This was a freak accident.
Being too slow to catch her is not an excuse.
the woman was a few yards away from US-19 and had a head-start. It's not an issue about being "too slow" but weighing the pros and cons of tackling her 100-lb body with his 265-lb frame on asphalt versus using a taser. If he landed on top of her and she hit her head causing her to become brain dead, then you guys would be whining that he shouldn't have tackled her.
They are going to get sued so obviously their own inquiry is going to find innocent otherwize they may as well settle out of court now for 30 million dollars.
they can sue all they want. A rationale person would understand this was a freak accident.
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in this particular situation, a taser was the last resort. The girl was running towards a busy road and could have killed herself, the trooper, or an automobile driver. Also, if she got away she could be involved in another hit-and-run accident and kill someone. The trooper did what he had to do. It's unfortunate the end result but no one could have foreseen this would happen. If so, there would be laws in place saying tasers cannot be used in parking lots under any circumstances. This was a freak accident.
the woman was a few yards away from US-19 and had a head-start. It's not an issue about being "too slow" but weighing the pros and cons of tackling her 100-lb body with his 265-lb frame on asphalt versus using a taser. If he landed on top of her and she hit her head causing her to become brain dead, then you guys would be whining that he shouldn't have tackled her.
they can sue all they want. A rationale person would understand this was a freak accident.
Thanks for your input officer.
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Thanks for your input officer.
no problem. Anything meaningful you want to contribute?
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Sad what we're becoming as a society. Too many people have NO sympathy for others. She was a kid. Kids do dumb things. They don't deserve to lie in a hospital bed the rest of their lives because of dopey mistakes.
Twenty years ago there were no tasers. Would this dumb, fat cop have shot her in the back for RUNNING? NO! He would have used better judgment in dealing with the situation. Taseres can be lethal and they are extremely dangerous in the hands of some of these clowns that call themselves cops today. The bar (and salary) has been lowered so much that most the cops today would have washed out a few decades ago, they'd be security guards.
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Fact. Girl was no danger to anyone.
Fact. Girl was tased from behind.
Fact. Girl is braindead.
What "what if" scenario would you like to present that is even remotely "likely"?
Savage cops are only suppose to use the taser in place of their firearms
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same thing happened to me about a year ago. cops pulled up on me, turned on their lights, wanted me to surrender.. walked up to the front of their car looked them in the eyes as i flipped them off and turned around and started running as fast as i could.. blacked out after about 20 yards.. woke up in an ambulance.. they tazed my ass once i started running, the full force of my body slaming down into the ground head first knocked me out..
i dont blame them.. i blame myself for running from them.
momma needs to accept it was her daughters fault, not the po po.
You're a fucking fool if you ran from the police. I've never even had a ticket.
The police are only suppose to use their taser in place of their pistols.
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Sad what we're becoming as a society. Too many people have NO sympathy for others. She was a kid. Kids do dumb things. They don't deserve to lie in a hospital bed the rest of their lives because of dopey mistakes.
she is not a kid. She is a 20 year old woman who knew what she was doing. She was already involved in 2 hit-and-run accidents, was driving without a license, ran from police, and had cocaine in her system. Don't let the article fool you because the biased reporter called her a "girl." And nobody is arguing she "deserves" to be brain dead. If that's what you took away from this thread, then I hope whatever you do for a living doesn't require important decision-making.
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It's just beyond me that people can defend these scum and vilify cops.
I'm not defending this girl, I'm pissed off at police that abuse their power.
Watch any episode of cops, you'll see what we mean.
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Sad what we're becoming as a society. Too many people have NO sympathy for others. She was a kid. Kids do dumb things. They don't deserve to lie in a hospital bed the rest of their lives because of dopey mistakes.
Twenty years ago there were no tasers. Would this dumb, fat cop have shot her in the back for RUNNING? NO! He would have used better judgment in dealing with the situation. Taseres can be lethal and they are extremely dangerous in the hands of some of these clowns that call themselves cops today. The bar (and salary) has been lowered so much that most the cops today would have washed out a few decades ago, they'd be security guards.
Good post, if I ever make Chief half the guys will be heavy discourage from even carrying a firearm.
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I don't know about the inherent dangers of tazing someone, but what happened to the girl was not something the cop imagined/wanted ofcourse. I see it as excessive force considering she wasn't physically harming anyone- the least he could have done is warned her?
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The main point is a tazer isn't a compliance tool, it's supposed to be an alternative to deadly force.
so when these fat fucks taze people for minor violations it should be viewed as the equivalent of them drawing their weapon and firing at jaywalkers, drunks or mentally disturbed homeless people.
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I don't know about the inherent dangers of tazing someone, but what happened to the girl was not something the cop imagined/wanted ofcourse. I see it as excessive force considering she wasn't physically harming anyone- the least he could have done is warned her?
the woman was a threat to herself and others. Yes, the danger was perceived b/c she wasn't physically harming anyone. However, that's like arguing you shouldn't tase someone who is charging at you with a weapon b/c technically they aren't physically hurting you
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the woman was a threat to herself and others. Yes, the danger was perceived b/c she wasn't physically harming anyone. However, that's like arguing you shouldn't tase someone who is charging at you with a weapon b/c technically they aren't physically hurting you
That's silly.
If someone is charging you with a weapon that IS the definition of imminent danger.
Holy crap man. If someone is charging you with a baseball bat you have every right to shoot to kill.
See here's where there's a disconnect.
Reasonable people see imminent danger and irrational people do not apparently.
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whole situation is bad, but if she had run into traffic and a busload of nuns would have crashed into a truck of baby seals, it would have been 'why didn't you stop her, officer'.
baby seals.... hehe
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This cop is a fat slob and incopetent, he should have his badge taken away at the least.
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the woman was a threat to herself and others. Yes, the danger was perceived b/c she wasn't physically harming anyone. However, that's like arguing you shouldn't tase someone who is charging at you with a weapon b/c technically they aren't physically hurting you
Wow, that's nice, they must have WiFi at the donut shop officer. You are truly defending your bloated cowardly coworker with enthusiasm. Keep up the good work.
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She was in custody and chose to run out of a police station cuffed. Some people are just shit magnets.. period. If you don't want to be a shit magnet, obey orders and don't run. If you choose to fuck off and run out of a station.... trying to escape custody, the officer/deputy has the right to shoot to kill.
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She was in custody and chose to run out of a police station cuffed. Some people are just shit magnets.. period. If you don't want to be a shit magnet, obey orders and don't run. If you choose to fuck off and run out of a station.... trying to escape custody, the officer/deputy has the right to shoot to kill.
Shoot to kill?!?
For running away handcuffed with no weapons. What. The. Fuck.
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Shoot to kill?!?
He didn't shoot to kill...!
He shot to thrill...
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
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Shoot to kill?!?
For running away handcuffed with no weapons. What. The. Fuck.
There are of course very limited times when an officer would be authorized to shoot a running handcuffed suspect. None of those conditions were present.
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That's silly.
If someone is charging you with a weapon that IS the definition of imminent danger.
Holy crap man. If someone is charging you with a baseball bat you have every right to shoot to kill.
See here's where there's a disconnect.
Reasonable people see imminent danger and irrational people do not apparently.
if it's an illegal, drunk mexican charging the LAPD with a knife (after stabbing a pregnant woman and other people) who gets shot then people riot on the streets in protest and cops are investigated at the taxpayers expense. But if a young girl is tazed in the back there's a few comments on youtube and the cop gets a raise.
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There are of course very limited times when an officer would be authorized to shoot a running handcuffed suspect. None of those conditions were present.
I agree with this completely.
Where we differ is that you think it was ok to use a taser and I disagree in this instance.
I believe the taser is very close to using a gun and you see it otherwise.
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The fucking 100 pound kid was harmless..........PERIOD!!
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That cop was fat. So no matter what he did it was wrong. Period.
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;D ;D
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Newflash bitch already did 2 hit and runs(special note hit means CAUSE CAR ACCIDENT). The bitch gets what she deserves.
The odds of bashing her head in the ground are just as likely as the dumb bitch tripping and slamming her head into something. (i,e, dont run with cuffs).
The dumb bitch is a violent criminal, a 100 pound girl in a car, is way more dangerous than a getbigger on his animal pack roller blades FACT!.
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Newflash bitch already did 2 hit and runs(special note hit means CAUSE CAR ACCIDENT). The bitch gets what she deserves.
The odds of bashing her head in the ground are just as likely as the dumb bitch tripping and slamming her head into something. (i,e, dont run with cuffs).
The dumb bitch is a violent criminal, a 100 pound girl in a car, is way more dangerous than a getbigger on his animal pack roller blades FACT!.
Yes because bumping into a car is equivalent to shooting someone with a gun.
::)
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Yes because bumping into a car is equivalent to shooting someone with a gun.
::)
No doing it twice loosing your ability to drive, while staying on the road. Is far more intentional and aggressive, that tasing a bitch with cuffs.
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No doing it twice loosing your ability to drive, while staying on the road. Is far more intentional and aggressive, that tasing a bitch with cuffs.
Do you understand imminent danger?
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Some of you are whining like bitches. She broke the law several times and then tried to run away from a police station while in handcuffs. If she didnt want anything bad to possibly happen she should have stayed put.
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That's silly.
If someone is charging you with a weapon that IS the definition of imminent danger.
Holy crap man. If someone is charging you with a baseball bat you have every right to shoot to kill.
way to miss the crux of my post. A perceived threat is still a perceived threat whether it be to themselves or others. The girl could have ran into oncoming traffic and been killed by a car or caused an automobile accident that resulted in the death of an innocent bystander.
See here's where there's a disconnect.
Reasonable people see imminent danger and irrational people do not apparently.
Reasonable people look at all the facts before reaching a conclusion.
Irrational people only look at some of the facts and have a knee-jerk reaction.
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I agree with this completely.
Where we differ is that you think it was ok to use a taser and I disagree in this instance.
I believe the taser is very close to using a gun and you see it otherwise.
Of course, I have facts on my side. A Gun and a Taser are nowhere near the same thing. Next, you'd equate a night stick TJ. Hooker throws at a running bad guy the same as a gun if the bad guy tripped and hit his head... There is solid science behind me, you're opinion on your side... guess what.. I win
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Of course, I have facts on my side. A Gun and a Taser are nowhere near the same thing. Next, you'd equate a night stick TJ. Hooker throws at a running bad guy the same as a gun if the bad guy tripped and hit his head... There is solid science behind me, you're opinion on your side... guess what.. I win
Please. Don't stretch the facts.
How much electricity is in a taser?
How much electricity can cause death?
Here's a hint. Tasers have caused death.
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Please. Don't stretch the facts.
How much electricity is in a taser?
How much electricity can cause death?
Here's a hint. Tasers have caused death.
how common are deaths related to tasers? Show me the statistics. While you're at it, show me the number of incidents of brain deaths related to tasers. If you're going to argue how dangerous they are, then you need to back it up with facts
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A new study suggesting Tasers pose little risk to those receiving the shocks has sparked further debate over their safety.
The research, which was presented at the American College of Emergency Physicians' Research forum in Seattle, arrives amid a number of high-profile reports of police incidents involving Tasers in recent weeks.
Lead study investigator Dr. William Bozeman, an emergency medicine specialist at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, N.C., emphasizes that, when used in appropriate situations, Tasers are much better than alternative means.
"This is the first real-world application study regarding the injury incurred by these weapons, because previous studies have encompassed either human volunteers or animals," he says.
In his research of 597 past situations in which Tasers were used by police officers, Bozeman found that serious injuries were rare, occurring only 0.3 percent of the time.
Bozeman adds that he was anticipating a higher level of injury -- injuries that might require hospital admission or incur long-term disability.
and
As of Nov. 4, Taser International cited 206 studies on electronic control devices, commonly known as Tasers. Most are favorable to the company. Taser devices have been used on more than 1.3 million people, according to company estimates. And while Amnesty International counts more than 340 deaths since 2001 in North America following police use of Tasers, that amounts to less than 0.03 percent of all Taser exposures
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Please. Don't stretch the facts.
How much electricity is in a taser?
How much electricity can cause death?
Here's a hint. Tasers have caused death.
Here's a hint... handguns have causes FAR more deaths to the point it isn't remotely comparible.. Aspirin has caused death but I won't compare it to Heroin
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I didn't say the percentage was high. But they can and have caused death.
While you may say that the percentage is "low" I would ask you what an acceptable number of deaths by taser is.
1000? 5000?
I think the number should be zero.
You will disagree I assume.
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I didn't say the percentage was high. But they can and have caused death.
While you may say that the percentage is "low" I would ask you what an acceptable number of deaths by taser is.
1000? 5000?
I think the number should be zero.
You will disagree I assume.
then your argument means crap. Water can cause death. Cars can cause death. I suppose you think we should stop drinking water and driving cars?
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I didn't say the percentage was high. But they can and have caused death.
While you may say that the percentage is "low" I would ask you what an acceptable number of deaths by taser is.
1000? 5000?
I think the number should be zero.
You will disagree I assume.
Many of the deaths attributed to the Taser are inconclusive to boot. People who had just swallowed a bag of crack rocks and fight the police, get tasered and eventually die in custody. Likely not the taser but it gets counted.
And please don't forget you compared the Taser to a handgun. Now you are back peddling
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Many of the deaths attributed to the Taser are inconclusive to boot. People who had just swallowed a bag of crack rocks and fight the police, get tasered and eventually die in custody. Likely not the taser but it gets counted.
And please don't forget you compared the Taser to a handgun. Now you are back peddling
I compare a Taser in relation to it being a weapon of last resort. Not in the mortality percentage.
So no. There's no back peddling.
Is it or is not your jurisdictions policy that a taser is an alternative weapon to using your gun and is a weapon of last resort?
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then your argument means crap. Water can cause death. Cars can cause death. I suppose you think we should stop drinking water and driving cars?
No. I believe that free people should be able to choose what they do with their own lives.
I don't think that girl chose to get tased.
What a stupid comparison.
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No. I believe that free people should be able to choose what they do with their own lives.
I don't think that girl chose to get tased.
What a stupid comparison.
First of all, she is a 20 year old woman - not a girl. She is an adult who fled after two hit-and-run accidents and after being caught by the trooper. Clearly she understood what she did was wrong and she knew the consequences of her actions otherwise she wouldn't have fled the law. A kid does not know better.
Also, that woman gave up any say in the matter when she attempted to run from the station. You simply do not run from police b/c bad stuff might happen. It's not a game to them. The trooper's choices were to tackle her to the ground on asphalt or tase her. He chose to tase her b/c he decided that was the safest option. He did not have the privilege of hindsight when it happened.
Moreover, your comment about my "stupid comparison" highlights the idiocy of your argument. If your argument is that any number of death, whether it be 1 or 1 million, is unacceptable, then you must live in a fantasy world b/c everything carries a risk of death no matter how small
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No. I believe that free people should be able to choose what they do with their own lives.
I don't think that girl chose to get tased.
What a stupid comparison.
So it is your position that people fleeing the police should have the opportunity while running to negotiate which tool the officer uses to catch them? Do you even read your posts once in a while?
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I compare a Taser in relation to it being a weapon of last resort. Not in the mortality percentage.
So no. There's no back peddling.
Is it or is not your jurisdictions policy that a taser is an alternative weapon to using your gun and is a weapon of last resort?
The Taser is considered less lethal. It is considered similar to pepper spray, empty hand techniques and falls below the use of the baton or nightstick. No where near the use of a hand gun and is considered one of serveral tools the officer has to contol a subject
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First of all, she is a 20 year old woman - not a girl. She is an adult who fled after two hit-and-run accidents and after being caught by the trooper. Clearly she understood what she did was wrong and she knew the consequences of her actions otherwise she wouldn't have fled the law. A kid does not know better.
Also, that woman gave up any say in the matter when she attempted to run from the station. You simply do not run from police b/c bad stuff might happen. It's not a game to them. The trooper's choices were to tackle her to the ground on asphalt or tase her. He chose to tase her b/c he decided that was the safest option. He did not have the privilege of hindsight when it happened.
Moreover, your comment about my "stupid comparison" highlights the idiocy of your argument. If your argument is that any number of death, whether it be 1 or 1 million, is unacceptable, then you must live in a fantasy world b/c everything carries a risk of death no matter how small
It's stupid because if I choose a risk it's my choice.
Cops choose how to apprehend suspects. Period.
They make the choice. If you don't see the difference between me choosing and someone else choosing for me you are simply an idiot.
Again. This girl. 20 is a fucking girl. This GIRL made some bad choices. No doubt. But in now way did she deserve to get tased and end up brain dead.
Especially because some fat ass was so out of shape he couldn't catch her teeny tiny little ass.
Keep covering for your boy though. If you keep killing people one day there wont be anyone to pay your salary and you can get a real job.
The blue line permeates some more right here on getbig!
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It's stupid because if I choose a risk it's my choice.
Cops choose how to apprehend suspects. Period.
They make the choice. If you don't see the difference between me choosing and someone else choosing for me you are simply an idiot.
Again. This girl. 20 is a fucking girl. This GIRL made some bad choices. No doubt. But in now way did she deserve to get tased and end up brain dead.
Especially because some fat ass was so out of shape he couldn't catch her teeny tiny little ass.
Keep covering for your boy though. If you keep killing people one day there wont be anyone to pay your salary and you can get a real job.
The blue line permeates some more right here on getbig!
You have the "blue line" confused with people trying to talk some common sense to you..
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You have the "blue line" confused with people trying to talk some common sense to you..
Sure thing dude.
Why do you bother anyway? You know I won't change my mind on the subject so why don't you just skip it anyway?
I love railing against the establishment which you are a part of.
I can't stand you fascists.
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It's stupid because if I choose a risk it's my choice.
Cops choose how to apprehend suspects. Period.
They make the choice. If you don't see the difference between me choosing and someone else choosing for me you are simply an idiot.
the woman chose the risk of getting tasered when she tried to run from the law ;)
Again. This girl. 20 is a fucking girl. This GIRL made some bad choices. No doubt. But in now way did she deserve to get tased and end up brain dead.
nobody is arguing she "deserved" to end up brain dead. Only someone with a poor argument would make such a pathetic strawman attempt
Especially because some fat ass was so out of shape he couldn't catch her teeny tiny little ass.
lol, did you even read the article or watch the video? The woman had less than 100 feet to run into traffic and had a head-start on the trooper. I don't know if you ever played sports but 100 feet is not that far. It only takes a few seconds to run. To put it into perspective, sprinters run the 100 meter race (300 feet) in 10 seconds. The issue isn't about the trooper being overweight but how he was going to catch her in the safest way. His only options were to tackle her on asphalt, tase her, or let her escape
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the woman chose the risk of getting tasered when she tried to run from the law ;)
nobody is arguing she "deserved" to end up brain dead. Only someone with a poor argument would make such a pathetic strawman attempt
lol, did you even read the article or watch the video? The woman had less than 100 feet to run into traffic and had a head-start on the trooper. I don't know if you ever played sports but 100 feet is not that far. It only takes a few seconds to run. To put it into perspective, sprinters run the 100 meter race (300 feet) in 10 seconds. The issue isn't about the trooper being overweight but how he was going to catch her in the safest way. His only options were to tackle her on asphalt, tase her, or let her escape
This is why you are full of shit. She couldn't move fast and he was a fat ass.
Anyone in shape would have even able to catch her and seriously even doubt a "tackle" on her ass would have been required.
Whatever you think dude.
I don't really give a shit. You Gestapo goons dont phase me. No need to defend yourself to me. I think you guys suck and have never made any apologies for it.
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This is why you are full of shit. She couldn't move fast and he was a fat ass.
Anyone in shape would have even able to catch her and seriously even doubt a "tackle" on her ass would have been required.
Whatever you think dude.
I don't really give a shit. You Gestapo goons dont phase me. No need to defend yourself to me. I think you guys suck and have never made any apologies for it.
You Sir are just an out and out moron. You get your ass handed to you in an argument and you start with the "you guys suck and never make apologies for it" crap . You're lack of real world experience is evident in your positions.. YOU can't admit when you are wrong, so what's the difference?
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can someone taze tu holmes and get it over with
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You Sir are just an out and out moron. You get your ass handed to you in an argument and you start with the "you guys suck and never make apologies for it" crap . You're lack of real world experience is evident in your positions.. YOU can't admit when you are wrong, so what's the difference?
You are ridiculous.
You can not show me where I'm wrong here.
This is a straight opinion... You guys have yours and I have mine.
I don't have to make any apologies because I'm not running around tasing people you nimrod.
I carry a gun and I have never had to use it against another person. If I DO have to use it one day, then I can guarantee it won't just be some off the cuff use.
To me, a taser is the same thing.
The issue here is more about how willy nilly cops use their equipment against their constituents.
But you guys can keep on doing what you do.
Oh, and swede! Get the fuck out of here with that shit.
I've been tased, peppered, the lot of it... Go fuck yourself.
I wonder how many cops have been tased... There was a time when you used to sit around and pepper spray each other to see how you guys could handle... Ever done that with a taser?
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tu holmes would shit his pants if a cop ordered him to do something
that is why he is railing against them on here
its the hopeless frustration of having no authority or control
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tu holmes would shit his pants if a cop ordered him to do something
that is why he is railing against them on here
its the hopeless frustration of having no authority or control
Haha... right... I'm shitting right now.
I rail against them because they are worthless and don't provide anything back, but take a lot of money from the community.
All cops do is report on crime... Whoop dee doo.
I have a ton of people who I have in the past associated with who are cops... I tell them the same shit.
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Haha... right... I'm shitting right now.
I rail against them because they are worthless and don't provide anything back, but take a lot of money from the community.
All cops do is report on crime... Whoop dee doo.
I have a ton of people who I have in the past associated with who are cops... I tell them the same shit.
sure you do champ
you would be the first person ringing them if you were in the shit
try and focus your energy on something more positive
anger is an anchor that weighs a man
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The girl was lean, the pig was fat. . . the girl wins. Sure she's brain dead, but she still looks better than the bloated pig.
tu holmes; let it go man. Once people are indoctrinated they're lost. Nothing, absolutely nothing will ever convince any successfully brainwashed person that anything the pigs do is wrong.
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sure you do champ
you would be the first person ringing them if you were in the shit
try and focus your energy on something more positive
anger is an anchor that weighs a man
This isn't anger... This is just reality.
Everyone talks great about the cops right until they realize that they are the ones being fucked over by them.
I can't stand them taking my tax dollar and sitting around doing nothing. Like most do.
Are some decent... sure... But I find that number to be highly overblown.
Most just like finding a way to use their power to fuck over people who are not in the system.
I have a cop friend (He was also a marine mind you) who has point blank told me that if he knew at a younger age what he knows now in his older age, he would have never become a cop because cops are just an arm of the government trying to keep dissidents in check.
I'll believe him over all of you anonymous fuckers online.
Remember... I'm the one who uses his real name and doesn't hide behind some screen.
I'm not the scared one here.
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Is there a danger of someone running on foot from the police?
Do you feel that this woman's life deserved to be destroyed because she "ran"?
Seriously? The woman is BRAINDEAD.
She is a VEGETABLE.
You feel she deserved what she got?
Really?
>implying she wasnt a brain dead drug abusing vegie already
and nothing of value was lost. move along folks, just darwinism at work.
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(http://billstclair.com/blog/images/protect-and-serve-318x500.jpg)
:D
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Danielle Maudsley. The face of generation nothingness.
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Sexy little delinquent bitch. I bet the male nurses are drawing straws to get the graveyard shift...
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You are ridiculous.
You can not show me where I'm wrong here.
This is a straight opinion... You guys have yours and I have mine.
I don't have to make any apologies because I'm not running around tasing people you nimrod.
I carry a gun and I have never had to use it against another person. If I DO have to use it one day, then I can guarantee it won't just be some off the cuff use.
To me, a taser is the same thing.
The issue here is more about how willy nilly cops use their equipment against their constituents.
But you guys can keep on doing what you do.
Oh, and swede! Get the fuck out of here with that shit.
I've been tased, peppered, the lot of it... Go fuck yourself.
I wonder how many cops have been tased... There was a time when you used to sit around and pepper spray each other to see how you guys could handle... Ever done that with a taser?
I posted study information. You posted your opinion...
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I posted study information. You posted your opinion...
I did not argue against your study... I stated that it certainly is safer than guns.
What I argue against is it's usage... I still state that it should be a weapon of last resort... You say otherwise.
That is an opinion.
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"I wonder how many cops have been tased... There was a time when you used to sit around and pepper spray each other to see how you guys could handle... Ever done that with a taser?"
Happens all the time.. guess what. Right after it stops, you're fine. Not the same with a hand gun which you compare to a Taser. Damn dude, admit you haven't a clue about what you are talking about... it is getting embarrassing
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Very confused as to how the use of force was justified in this one... Seems it would be akin to shooting a fleeing subject in the back.
You aren't very truthful... all I'm sayin'
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"I wonder how many cops have been tased... There was a time when you used to sit around and pepper spray each other to see how you guys could handle... Ever done that with a taser?"
Happens all the time.. guess what. Right after it stops, you're fine. Not the same with a hand gun which you compare to a Taser. Damn dude, admit you haven't a clue about what you are talking about... it is getting embarrassing
What are you talking about?
I never said a taser was the same... I said "akin" as in "having a similar quality or character"
It is AKIN to shooting someone in the back... It is supposed to be a weapon of last resort.
I have asked you what your own departments policy is on tasers and you have not responded once.
What's embarrassing is how you continue to defend fascist actions and simply skim over the shit and go to the stuff you think is ok.
Shouldn't you be out protecting and serving the shit out of us common folk?
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In the end , the taser didn't hurt this girl. it was the fall. He could have easily tripped her as she was running away and the same result of her falling and hitting her head would have happened.
the fact is she shouldn't have ran away once cuffed. Nothing good was going to happen after that moment.
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Aren't you a cop in Houston?
You guys have gotten some heat over their use it seems.
Questions grow over HPD's use of Taser guns
HOUSTON CHRONICLE SPECIAL REPORT
The Taser Effect
ROMA KHANNA, Houston Chronicle Copyright 2012 Houston Chronicle. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast,
Since the Houston Police Department armed itself with Tasers, touted as a way to reduce deadly police shootings, officers have shot, wounded and killed as many people as before the widespread use of the stun guns, a Houston Chronicle analysis shows.
Officers have used their Tasers more than 1,000 times in the past two years, but in 95 percent of those cases they were not used to defuse situations in which suspects wielded weapons and deadly force clearly would have been justified.
Instead, more than half of the Taser incidents escalated from relatively common police calls, such as traffic stops, disturbance and nuisance complaints, and reports of suspicious people.
In more than 350 cases, no crime was committed. No person was charged or the case was dropped by prosecutors or dismissed by judges and juries, according to the Houston Chronicle's analysis of the first 900 police Taser incidents, which occurred between December 2004 and August 2006.
Of those people who were charged with crimes, most were accused of misdemeanors or nonviolent felonies.
In an interview with the Chronicle, Houston Police Chief Harold Hurtt adamantly defended the department's use of Tasers, saying the type of crime committed, or whether charges were filed, have little bearing on whether Taser use is justified.
"When people are charged with minor crimes or nonviolent crimes, maybe the reason is because they were stopped before they committed a much more serious offense," Hurtt said.
Though Tasers have become a flash point for conflict across the country, it was an incident involving Houston Texans football player Fred Weary that threw the city into the national spotlight. Weary, an offensive lineman, was shocked with a Taser during a traffic stop in November, arrested and charged with resisting arrest. A judge later dismissed the charge.
The Weary incident followed an October confrontation in which an officer, called to quiet a noisy music club, shocked musicians and concert-goers. The incident was videotaped by club patrons and then broadcast on the popular YouTube Web site.
Those instances, coupled with HPD's admission that the majority of people who officers have shocked are black, have roiled community controversy — particularly since Tasers were introduced at a time of high tension over questionable police shootings.
Calls for reconsideration
Elected officials, activists and some in the community have called for tighter restrictions on officers' use of Tasers, if not a moratorium.
"If they are still shooting the same number of people and the same number of people who are unarmed, you have to ask, 'What are they using the Tasers for?' " asked Sylvia Gonzalez, a former law enforcement officer who now helps lead the local chapter of the League of United Latin American Citizens.
Mayor Bill White and Hurtt, meanwhile, steadfastly support the weapon and note that none of the people who were shocked has died. But, in the face of public criticism, they have agreed to allow independent groups to study Houston's use of Tasers and the weapon's medical effects.
They maintain that Tasers have saved lives — including those of the 40 armed people whom officers chose to shock, not shoot.
"We don't know what could have happened in those situations in the past, before Tasers," White said. "The Tasers are a useful tool because the police need an alternative to using a baton or shooting someone."
In fact, Hurtt counts Weary among those whom officers may have spared from a more dire outcome.
"At one point, based upon some of the actions that took place, that could probably have been a much deadlier encounter," Hurtt said, declining to elaborate because of the possibility of refiling charges against Weary or a civil lawsuit from the football player.
Such explanations ring hollow for 24-year-old Wilbert Allen Foxx, whom officers shocked three times during a February 2005 traffic stop in which they claim he tried to grab an officer's gun. Foxx, a student at Morehouse College in Atlanta who was in Houston to help with a family matter, was charged with trying to disarm an officer. But jurors quickly acquitted him after hearing his account of the confrontation and an audiotape of the encounter.
"People may think a Taser is harmless — that it's five seconds and then it's over — but I can tell you that this incident has changed my whole life," said Foxx, who stayed in Houston to fight the charges against him, forfeiting scholarships and delaying his graduation from college.
"So many incidents seem to involve people like me, people stopped in their cars or at the wrong place who don't deserve this type of treatment."
Forces behind the device
The Houston City Council approved a $4.7 million contract to purchase Tasers in November 2004, one year after the controversial shootings of two unarmed teens that led to attempts to terminate one officer and the indictment on a murder charge of another. The fallout from those shootings churned as White ran his first campaign for mayor.
Two months after he was inaugurated, White named Hurtt, then chief of the Phoenix Police Department, to lead HPD. His appointment came with a mandate to reduce the number of controversial police shootings.
Hurtt, the first major-city police chief to arm all of his officers with Tasers, had noted success with the devices in Phoenix. In 2003, the first year the Phoenix force was fully equipped, shootings were cut in half. Similar results have not been achieved in Houston.
Houston officers killed or wounded 46 people in 2005 and 2006, among them a 16-year-old girl threatening suicide who officers said brandished a knife. One of every four shootings — or 11 times — in the past two years was of an unarmed person, according to police and news media reports.
Two shootings of two men this month, in which officers said they were threatened and witnesses disputed officers' accounts, have prompted public outrage.
Hurtt attributes the steady number of shootings to a variety of variables that affect the landscape of crime in the city, including population growth, increased arrests, drug activity and an increase in crime among juveniles.
"We are only one part of the equation," he said. "There are individuals out there who make decisions where officers do not have the opportunity to use Tasers — they have to use deadly force."
But others, who saw Tasers as a tool for reducing deadly shootings, are disappointed.
"We feel misled," said Gonzalez, of LULAC.
City Councilwoman Ada Edwards repeatedly has called for a review on police Taser policy and an independent medical study of the effects of the stun guns.
"When people have the kind of authority we give our police officers with guns and Tasers, then they need to have the accountability that goes with that authority," Edwards said.
Starting off as routine
In Houston, according to the Chronicle analysis, officers turn to Tasers most often when conflicts arise during routine encounters. Interactions such as a complaint about fireworks, a person littering and another riding a bicycle with no light at night gave way to conflicts that resulted in officers shocking people. One common circumstance that preceded an officer using a Taser was the traffic stop.
Donald Touchet was driving home from dinner with his girlfriend Jan. 26, 2005, when an officer tried to pull him over for ignoring a stop sign 1,056 feet from his driveway. Touchet said he did not immediately notice the lights and then could not find a spot to stop because a number of cars were parked on the street. He proceeded to his girlfriend's driveway, where she watched as the officer ordered him out of the car.
The officer told Touchet to place his hands on the patrol car, which he did. Touchet turned to speak to the officer, and the officer shocked him. The officer said Touchet elbowed, but Touchet and his girlfriend maintain that he did not.
"The officer asked Donald something," Julie Mitchell said in a statement for the grand jury that reviewed Touchet's case. "When he turned around, the officer Tasered him. I was so scared. I screamed into the phone that Donald had been shot."
Prosecutors charged Touchet with evading arrest with a motor vehicle and driving while intoxicated, but the grand jury that reviewed the case declined to indict Touchet, and prosecutors dropped the DWI charge.
"This so-called chase lasted all of one minute and went on for less than half a mile," said Robert Pelton, the lawyer that represented Touchet. "I am not one to say that officers should not use Tasers. They're a good tool. But the department needs to have clear rules about what is justified and what clearly is not."
HPD officials maintain that Taser use is scrutinized more carefully than any weapon except guns. An assistant police chief who reports directly to Hurtt reads every report of Taser use and requires a supervisor to go to the scene each time a stun gun is deployed.
Taser-use guidelines
HPD considers the Taser an intermediate weapon that officers can use any time they otherwise would use batons or physically confront people. Officers go through a four-hour course before they are issued Tasers and must pass requalification tests on the weapon annually. Policy and training dictate that officers should use the minimal force necessary to eliminate a threat to officers or others. They also outline instances in which Tasers should not be used, including occasions in which someone is "verbally aggressive" but does nothing else.
The last limitation was clarified after police officials found that a number of officers used Tasers on people who had been verbally aggressive. On March 30, Hurtt distributed to officers a video on which he explained that Tasers should be used against people who are verbally aggressive only if their comments are accompanied by aggressive gestures or the officers think assault is imminent.
"We wanted to make sure we all are on the same page," Executive Assistant Police Chief Charles McClelland said. "But officers do not have to wait to be assaulted prior to using a Taser."
The department does not track how often charges are accepted against people whom officers have shocked, nor does it monitor whether cases are successful, McClelland said. The outcome of criminal cases has no effect on whether an officer's use of a Taser is ruled justified.
Hurtt said many factors, not just an officer's actions, can affect the outcome of a criminal case. "The system is the system," Hurtt said, referring to decisions by prosecutors, judges and juries over which he has no control.
Trust, mistrust of system
Jerome Forney Jr. knows the system well. The 31-year-old served several stints in prison and jail for drug offenses, which is why he was surprised when a judge questioned an officer's judgment after Forney was shocked in the parking lot of an apartment complex Dec. 28, 2004.
Forney was leaning into a friend's car watching a portable DVD player when an officer, who suspected Forney was dealing drugs, approached him. A struggle ensued, and the officer shocked Forney, yelling for him to spit non-existent drugs out of his mouth. No drugs were found, but Forney was arrested and charged with resisting arrest and search. That day, at a probable-cause hearing, a judge took issue with the officer's claims.
"He asked for the details to be read twice," Forney said, "and then said, 'Uh-uh, he wasn't resisting arrest.'
I was shocked. I knew I had done nothing wrong, but I didn't think anyone would question the officer, especially with my experience in the system."
Many of the people whom officers encountered and shocked with Tasers had criminal histories. But in 317 of the 892 cases that the Chronicle examined, no charges were filed in state or county courts stemming from the incidents when they were shocked. Among the cases that were filed, half were misdemeanors, and most of the felony charges were nonviolent, such as possession of a controlled substance or evading arrest with a motor vehicle.
Cases against about 50 of the people charged fell apart.
Managing the mentally ill
Several of those cases faltered because the people whom officers shocked were mentally ill. Six whom officers shocked were declared incompetent to stand trial, and the cases against them were dismissed. Others with mental illness faced no charges.
Kenneth Izzat, who has bipolar disorder, was standing in the street shouting profanities June 25 when an officer approached him. Izzat, 30, kicked the officer's car and ignored orders to stop his aggressive behavior before the officer shocked him.
Prosecutors would not accept charges.
Izzat, now on medication, thinks officers could have used a different tack to calm him.
"One minute he was ordering me around and then next I was being shocked," he said. "It seems some other steps could have been taken first. I think that's all people are looking for. That officers take some time and use their options before they start tasing people."
Chronicle reporters Steve McVicker and Noel Smith contributed to this report.
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In the end , the taser didn't hurt this girl. it as the fall. He could have easily tripped her as she was running away and the same result of her falling and hitting her head would have happened.
the fact is she shouldn't have ran away once cuffed. Nothing good was going to happen after that moment.
I agree, but there's bad and braindead you know.
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Summary: it was not necessary to taser the girl in that situation. period.
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Summary: it was not necessary to taser the girl in that situation. period.
Thank you.
Only cops and cop groupies think it was necessary.
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I agree, but there's bad and braindead you know.
Fact is she was cuffed from behind and fell face forward onto the concrete. The same result would have happened if she tripped on a curb or if he hit her with his club, or pushed her forward trying to stop her. Think about it. Say he reached out to grab her to stop her and his hand pushed her forward causing her momentum to make her fall down forward quickly. No matter what with her hands behind her back she had no way of cushioning that fall. She was eating concrete no matter what.
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Fact is she was cuffed from behind and fell face forward onto the concrete. The same result would have happened if she tripped on a curb or if he hit her with his club, or pushed her forward trying to stop her. Think about it. Say he reached out to grab her to stop her and his hand pushed her forward causing her momentum to make her fall down forward quickly. No matter what with her hands behind her back she had no way of cushioning that fall. She was eating concrete no matter what.
True, but there is physical difference in how you eat pavement if you have control of your nervous system and can brace for impact or turn your body.
When you have no control over your nervous system you are at the mercy of gravity completely... Which is not true in the other circumstances you mentioned.
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Heart disease is the number one killer in America today. Maybe using a taser on the American public should be considered a health risk :-\ Just saying.
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Aren't you a cop in Houston?
You guys have gotten some heat over their use it seems.
Questions grow over HPD's use of Taser guns
HOUSTON CHRONICLE SPECIAL REPORT
The Taser Effect
ROMA KHANNA, Houston Chronicle Copyright 2012 Houston Chronicle. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast,
Since the Houston Police Department armed itself with Tasers, touted as a way to reduce deadly police shootings, officers have shot, wounded and killed as many people as before the widespread use of the stun guns, a Houston Chronicle analysis shows.
Officers have used their Tasers more than 1,000 times in the past two years, but in 95 percent of those cases they were not used to defuse situations in which suspects wielded weapons and deadly force clearly would have been justified.
Instead, more than half of the Taser incidents escalated from relatively common police calls, such as traffic stops, disturbance and nuisance complaints, and reports of suspicious people.
In more than 350 cases, no crime was committed. No person was charged or the case was dropped by prosecutors or dismissed by judges and juries, according to the Houston Chronicle's analysis of the first 900 police Taser incidents, which occurred between December 2004 and August 2006.
Of those people who were charged with crimes, most were accused of misdemeanors or nonviolent felonies.
In an interview with the Chronicle, Houston Police Chief Harold Hurtt adamantly defended the department's use of Tasers, saying the type of crime committed, or whether charges were filed, have little bearing on whether Taser use is justified.
"When people are charged with minor crimes or nonviolent crimes, maybe the reason is because they were stopped before they committed a much more serious offense," Hurtt said.
Though Tasers have become a flash point for conflict across the country, it was an incident involving Houston Texans football player Fred Weary that threw the city into the national spotlight. Weary, an offensive lineman, was shocked with a Taser during a traffic stop in November, arrested and charged with resisting arrest. A judge later dismissed the charge.
The Weary incident followed an October confrontation in which an officer, called to quiet a noisy music club, shocked musicians and concert-goers. The incident was videotaped by club patrons and then broadcast on the popular YouTube Web site.
Those instances, coupled with HPD's admission that the majority of people who officers have shocked are black, have roiled community controversy — particularly since Tasers were introduced at a time of high tension over questionable police shootings.
Calls for reconsideration
Elected officials, activists and some in the community have called for tighter restrictions on officers' use of Tasers, if not a moratorium.
"If they are still shooting the same number of people and the same number of people who are unarmed, you have to ask, 'What are they using the Tasers for?' " asked Sylvia Gonzalez, a former law enforcement officer who now helps lead the local chapter of the League of United Latin American Citizens.
Mayor Bill White and Hurtt, meanwhile, steadfastly support the weapon and note that none of the people who were shocked has died. But, in the face of public criticism, they have agreed to allow independent groups to study Houston's use of Tasers and the weapon's medical effects.
They maintain that Tasers have saved lives — including those of the 40 armed people whom officers chose to shock, not shoot.
"We don't know what could have happened in those situations in the past, before Tasers," White said. "The Tasers are a useful tool because the police need an alternative to using a baton or shooting someone."
In fact, Hurtt counts Weary among those whom officers may have spared from a more dire outcome.
"At one point, based upon some of the actions that took place, that could probably have been a much deadlier encounter," Hurtt said, declining to elaborate because of the possibility of refiling charges against Weary or a civil lawsuit from the football player.
Such explanations ring hollow for 24-year-old Wilbert Allen Foxx, whom officers shocked three times during a February 2005 traffic stop in which they claim he tried to grab an officer's gun. Foxx, a student at Morehouse College in Atlanta who was in Houston to help with a family matter, was charged with trying to disarm an officer. But jurors quickly acquitted him after hearing his account of the confrontation and an audiotape of the encounter.
"People may think a Taser is harmless — that it's five seconds and then it's over — but I can tell you that this incident has changed my whole life," said Foxx, who stayed in Houston to fight the charges against him, forfeiting scholarships and delaying his graduation from college.
"So many incidents seem to involve people like me, people stopped in their cars or at the wrong place who don't deserve this type of treatment."
Forces behind the device
The Houston City Council approved a $4.7 million contract to purchase Tasers in November 2004, one year after the controversial shootings of two unarmed teens that led to attempts to terminate one officer and the indictment on a murder charge of another. The fallout from those shootings churned as White ran his first campaign for mayor.
Two months after he was inaugurated, White named Hurtt, then chief of the Phoenix Police Department, to lead HPD. His appointment came with a mandate to reduce the number of controversial police shootings.
Hurtt, the first major-city police chief to arm all of his officers with Tasers, had noted success with the devices in Phoenix. In 2003, the first year the Phoenix force was fully equipped, shootings were cut in half. Similar results have not been achieved in Houston.
Houston officers killed or wounded 46 people in 2005 and 2006, among them a 16-year-old girl threatening suicide who officers said brandished a knife. One of every four shootings — or 11 times — in the past two years was of an unarmed person, according to police and news media reports.
Two shootings of two men this month, in which officers said they were threatened and witnesses disputed officers' accounts, have prompted public outrage.
Hurtt attributes the steady number of shootings to a variety of variables that affect the landscape of crime in the city, including population growth, increased arrests, drug activity and an increase in crime among juveniles.
"We are only one part of the equation," he said. "There are individuals out there who make decisions where officers do not have the opportunity to use Tasers — they have to use deadly force."
But others, who saw Tasers as a tool for reducing deadly shootings, are disappointed.
"We feel misled," said Gonzalez, of LULAC.
City Councilwoman Ada Edwards repeatedly has called for a review on police Taser policy and an independent medical study of the effects of the stun guns.
"When people have the kind of authority we give our police officers with guns and Tasers, then they need to have the accountability that goes with that authority," Edwards said.
Starting off as routine
In Houston, according to the Chronicle analysis, officers turn to Tasers most often when conflicts arise during routine encounters. Interactions such as a complaint about fireworks, a person littering and another riding a bicycle with no light at night gave way to conflicts that resulted in officers shocking people. One common circumstance that preceded an officer using a Taser was the traffic stop.
Donald Touchet was driving home from dinner with his girlfriend Jan. 26, 2005, when an officer tried to pull him over for ignoring a stop sign 1,056 feet from his driveway. Touchet said he did not immediately notice the lights and then could not find a spot to stop because a number of cars were parked on the street. He proceeded to his girlfriend's driveway, where she watched as the officer ordered him out of the car.
The officer told Touchet to place his hands on the patrol car, which he did. Touchet turned to speak to the officer, and the officer shocked him. The officer said Touchet elbowed, but Touchet and his girlfriend maintain that he did not.
"The officer asked Donald something," Julie Mitchell said in a statement for the grand jury that reviewed Touchet's case. "When he turned around, the officer Tasered him. I was so scared. I screamed into the phone that Donald had been shot."
Prosecutors charged Touchet with evading arrest with a motor vehicle and driving while intoxicated, but the grand jury that reviewed the case declined to indict Touchet, and prosecutors dropped the DWI charge.
"This so-called chase lasted all of one minute and went on for less than half a mile," said Robert Pelton, the lawyer that represented Touchet. "I am not one to say that officers should not use Tasers. They're a good tool. But the department needs to have clear rules about what is justified and what clearly is not."
HPD officials maintain that Taser use is scrutinized more carefully than any weapon except guns. An assistant police chief who reports directly to Hurtt reads every report of Taser use and requires a supervisor to go to the scene each time a stun gun is deployed.
Taser-use guidelines
HPD considers the Taser an intermediate weapon that officers can use any time they otherwise would use batons or physically confront people. Officers go through a four-hour course before they are issued Tasers and must pass requalification tests on the weapon annually. Policy and training dictate that officers should use the minimal force necessary to eliminate a threat to officers or others. They also outline instances in which Tasers should not be used, including occasions in which someone is "verbally aggressive" but does nothing else.
The last limitation was clarified after police officials found that a number of officers used Tasers on people who had been verbally aggressive. On March 30, Hurtt distributed to officers a video on which he explained that Tasers should be used against people who are verbally aggressive only if their comments are accompanied by aggressive gestures or the officers think assault is imminent.
"We wanted to make sure we all are on the same page," Executive Assistant Police Chief Charles McClelland said. "But officers do not have to wait to be assaulted prior to using a Taser."
The department does not track how often charges are accepted against people whom officers have shocked, nor does it monitor whether cases are successful, McClelland said. The outcome of criminal cases has no effect on whether an officer's use of a Taser is ruled justified.
Hurtt said many factors, not just an officer's actions, can affect the outcome of a criminal case. "The system is the system," Hurtt said, referring to decisions by prosecutors, judges and juries over which he has no control.
Trust, mistrust of system
Jerome Forney Jr. knows the system well. The 31-year-old served several stints in prison and jail for drug offenses, which is why he was surprised when a judge questioned an officer's judgment after Forney was shocked in the parking lot of an apartment complex Dec. 28, 2004.
Forney was leaning into a friend's car watching a portable DVD player when an officer, who suspected Forney was dealing drugs, approached him. A struggle ensued, and the officer shocked Forney, yelling for him to spit non-existent drugs out of his mouth. No drugs were found, but Forney was arrested and charged with resisting arrest and search. That day, at a probable-cause hearing, a judge took issue with the officer's claims.
"He asked for the details to be read twice," Forney said, "and then said, 'Uh-uh, he wasn't resisting arrest.'
I was shocked. I knew I had done nothing wrong, but I didn't think anyone would question the officer, especially with my experience in the system."
Many of the people whom officers encountered and shocked with Tasers had criminal histories. But in 317 of the 892 cases that the Chronicle examined, no charges were filed in state or county courts stemming from the incidents when they were shocked. Among the cases that were filed, half were misdemeanors, and most of the felony charges were nonviolent, such as possession of a controlled substance or evading arrest with a motor vehicle.
Cases against about 50 of the people charged fell apart.
Managing the mentally ill
Several of those cases faltered because the people whom officers shocked were mentally ill. Six whom officers shocked were declared incompetent to stand trial, and the cases against them were dismissed. Others with mental illness faced no charges.
Kenneth Izzat, who has bipolar disorder, was standing in the street shouting profanities June 25 when an officer approached him. Izzat, 30, kicked the officer's car and ignored orders to stop his aggressive behavior before the officer shocked him.
Prosecutors would not accept charges.
Izzat, now on medication, thinks officers could have used a different tack to calm him.
"One minute he was ordering me around and then next I was being shocked," he said. "It seems some other steps could have been taken first. I think that's all people are looking for. That officers take some time and use their options before they start tasing people."
Chronicle reporters Steve McVicker and Noel Smith contributed to this report.
No, I'm not in Houston
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No, I'm not in Houston
Maybe you said Austin then...
Hmm... Could have sworn at one time you said Houston.
Not that it matters. This is but one craptastic article... There are many.
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Maybe you said Austin then...
Hmm... Could have sworn at one time you said Houston.
Not that it matters. This is but one craptastic article... There are many.
Houston Chronicle is probably similar to the Austin Chronicle. Not very close to "news" and as biased as FOX and CNN
But... even taking the article as written, it's a far cry from "heat"
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Houston Chronicle is probably similar to the Austin Chronicle. Not very close to "news" and as biased as FOX and CNN
But... even taking the article as written, it's a far cry from "heat"
Heh... ok. If'n you say so.
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Just think: this whole thread would've never existed if she stayed seated in the station, following the rules, and not running.
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Just think: this whole thread would've never existed if she stayed seated in the station, following the rules, and not running.
This
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In the end , the taser didn't hurt this girl. it was the fall. He could have easily tripped her as she was running away and the same result of her falling and hitting her head would have happened.
the fact is she shouldn't have ran away once cuffed. Nothing good was going to happen after that moment.
yes throw probability out the window, that makes sense. Lets think of all the possibilities and consider them equal to justify a clearly immoral decision. She could of gotten hit by a low flying plane also, it would of knocked her over so its fine. Shit a bullet in the back wouldnt have killed her perhaps the fall so with all things being equal (of course they are) the end result of shooting versus tripping is the same, she will fall down, thus its ok to shoot her.
Seriously this is the logic your implementing here.
The second sentence is stupid, good to whom? to her alot of good could of happened? why are you making silly statements.
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yes throw probability out the window, that makes sense. Lets think of all the possibilities and consider them equal to justify a clearly immoral decision. She could of gotten hit by a low flying plane also, it would of knocked her over so its fine. Shit a bullet in the back wouldnt have killed her perhaps the fall so with all things being equal (of course they are) the end result of shooting versus tripping is the same, she will fall down, thus its ok to shoot her.
Seriously this is the logic your implementing here.
The second sentence is stupid, good to whom? to her alot of good could of happened? why are you making silly statements.
Not as stupid as you are making it sound... low flying planes hitting people running aren't nearly as common as people getting tased. The difference is that in all but .03% of the people tased, they are fine afterwards... not so with an aircraft I would imagine. Again, the statement was basically that the sudden stopping of her skull on the pavement caused the damage, not any electrical shock. The same result could have just as likely occurred with tripping seeing how based on the totality of the circumstances, this was a freak accidental serious injury and not the norm.
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why did she run again ???
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why did she run again ???
I'm pretty sure she ran because the piggish bloated pig who tased her was looking at her and licking his fat bloated chops and the crackhead was afraid the fat lazy nazi-wannabe pig was planning to eat her. That's what I heard anyway.
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I'm pretty sure she ran because the piggish bloated pig who tased her was looking at her and licking his fat bloated chops and the crackhead was afraid the fat lazy nazi-wannabe pig was planning to eat her. That's what I heard anyway.
you're supposed to say: yes saaa boss and only speak when spoken to. not be combative.