Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: jwb on July 31, 2006, 07:59:40 PM
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First off,
Where the hell are they?
If you go to the IFBB.com site you get a link to the rules of the IFBB and you click on a PDF file which is a lengthy document which is clearly the IFBB "AMATEUR" rule book mainly referring to issues in regards to the IFBB world championships - Ben Weider's baby
Chick, does this rulebook apply to the pros?
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This is interesting....
according to the IFBB rulebook, from 2007 there will be OUT OF COMPETITION drug testing for all members!!!
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You don't really expect a response to this from Chick or anyone affiliated do you?
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This is interesting....
according to the IFBB rulebook, from 2007 there will be OUT OF COMPETITION drug testing for all members!!!
Oh crap i just choked up my protien drink :)
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Lee in all honesty, how much do you think you would weigh onstage if the IFBB drug test you ?
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This is interesting....
according to the IFBB rulebook, from 2007 there will be OUT OF COMPETITION drug testing for all members!!!
Yeah, and Derek Anthony will give up his man-whoring to become a Doctor, and help out children in South America.......... ::)
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Oh crap i just choked up my protien drink :)
Great show Lee. Very entertaining. You made your points. I think you made some new fans tonight.
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You don't really expect a response to this from Chick or anyone affiliated do you?
Of course not joe...
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Lee in all honesty, how much do you think you would weight onstage if the IFBB drug test you ?
i went drug free one year and wieghed 205.I have no problem doing it .if all the others do it great lets do it.You will see alot of changes in placings then.
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i went drug free one year and wieghed 205.I have no problem doing it .if all the others do it great lets do it.You will see alot of changes in placings then.
you were 205lbs in competition shape?
Isn't that your normal competition weight??
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Yeah i wqasnt as shredded thou still hard it was the year i got 5th or 6th at ironamn i am sure there are pics somewhere.
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okay the IFBB pro rule book DOES exist...
http://www.ifbb.com/ifbbpro/rules.htm
lets take it apart then...
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http://www.ifbb.com/ifbbpro/IFBBProRules.pdf
Here is the rulebook in pdf format
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okay the IFBB pro rule book DOES exist...
http://www.ifbb.com/ifbbpro/rules.htm
lets take it apart then...
OK GO FOR IT LETS SEE WHAT RULES ARE GETTING BROKEN AND HOW MANY PROS HAVE HAD SOMETHING DONE TO THEN ABOUT IT.
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Yeah i wqasnt as shredded thou still hard it was the year i got 5th or 6th at ironamn i am sure there are pics somewhere.
I googled it, was it the 1999 ironman, where you placed 6th? You were off all drugs for how long?
http://www.getbig.com/pics/ironman/1999/priest.htm
(http://www.getbig.com/pics/ironman/1999/priest02.jpg)
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http://www.ifbb.com/ifbbpro/IFBBProRules.pdf
Here is the rulebook in pdf format
For each rule, make a list of times it has been blatantly broken then not enforced by the IFBB. Send the results to Lee's lawyer... it'll save him tons of money in research fees! ;D
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"Article 8 – Drug Testing
8.1 Policy Statement: Sport involves physical health and fitness, mental application and dedication to training. Doping – the use of prohibited substances and/or prohibited methods – to artificially enhance performance is unethical, contrary to the concept of fair play, undermines the values of sport, and can endanger the health of the athletes. The practice of doping is forbidden.
8.2 Power and Authority: As a condition of membership and competition in the Pro League, all Athletes must agree that the Pro League has the right to conduct announced or unannounced, in-competition or out-of-competition, random, weighted or target drug testing.
8.3 Control and Supervision: The Pro League Medical Committee has overall control and supervision of all drug testing conducted within the Pro League and will at its discretion take such measures and draft such guidelines as it deems necessary to ensure that where drug testing is conducted; it is done so in a professional manner.
8.4 Sample Analysis: Samples (bodily specimens) will be analyzed at an independent professional laboratory selected by the Pro League Medical Committee.
8.5 List of Prohibited Substances and Prohibited Methods: The Pro League Medical Committee at its discretion will determine the substances and methods that are prohibited, that are to be tested for, and that constitute a doping offence. A list of prohibited substances and methods will be maintained by the Pro League Medical Committee and will be made available to all Athletes. The Pro League adopts the Rule of Strict Liability wherein Athletes are solely responsible for what is found in their samples.
8.6 Doping Offence: A doping offence occurs when:
1. An Athlete tests positive for the presence of a prohibited substance or its metabolite or marker in the Athlete’s bodily specimen.
2. An Athlete is found to have used a prohibited method.
3. An Athlete, for whatever reason, refuses a test or fails to provide a proper sample when requested to do so by the Pro League.
4. An Athlete is found guilty of trafficking in prohibited substances and/or methods."
"8.9 Penalties: The penalties upon a final finding for a doping offence shall be as determined by the Pro League Medical Committee and shall consist of a series of escalating fines and/or suspensions, or expulsion. At a minimum, the penalty for an offence under Articles 8.6.1 shall be as follows:
1. First Offence: A USD $2,500.00 fine and a three-month suspension;
2. Second Offence: A USD $5,000.00 fine and a six-month suspension;
3. Third Offence: A USD $10,000.00 fine and a one-year suspension;
4. Fourth Offence: Expulsion from the Pro League.
At a minimum, the penalty for an offence under Articles 8.6.2 and 8.6.3 shall be a USD $5,000.00 fine and a six-month suspension. A second offence shall result in expulsion from the Pro League. The penalty for an offence under Article 8.6.4 shall be expulsion from the Pro League.
8.10 Appeal: An Athlete may appeal a final finding to the Pro Committee pursuant to"
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I googled it, was it the 1999 ironman, where you placed 6th? You were off all drugs for how long?
http://www.getbig.com/pics/ironman/1999/priest.htm
(http://www.getbig.com/pics/ironman/1999/priest02.jpg)
10 months i had a bet with Jason Mathis at the time he used to write for muscle mag.He could test me anytime and if i was positive i would pay him 10,000 and vice versa if i was clean..It was a little harder recovery wise and training just took loads of supplements but it can be done just alot harder .
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OK GO FOR IT LETS SEE WHAT RULES ARE GETTING BROKEN AND HOW MANY PROS HAVE HAD SOMETHING DONE TO THEN ABOUT IT.
This will prove nothing as YOU have broken many of these rules, Lee...and nothing was done.
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Has any pro ever been suspended or fined for drug use?
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This will prove nothing as YOU have broken many of these rules, Lee...and nothing was done.
Which rules did Lee break that everyone else hasn't?
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This will prove nothing as YOU have broken many of these rules, Lee...and nothing was done.
You've gone from dismissing his argument, to using it against him. You just legitimized his argument. Congrats.
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hahaha
"Article 8 – Drug Testing
8.1 Policy Statement:
Sport involves physical health and fitness, mental application and dedication to
training. Doping – the use of prohibited substances and/or prohibited methods –
to artificially enhance performance is unethical, contrary to the concept of fair
play, undermines the values of sport, and can endanger the health of the athletes.
The practice of doping is forbidden.
8.2 Power and Authority:
As a condition of membership and competition in the Pro League, all Athletes
must agree that the Pro League has the right to conduct announced or
unannounced, in-competition or out-of-competition, random, weighted or target
drug testing.
8.3 Control and Supervision:
The Pro League Medical Committee has overall control and supervision of all
drug testing conducted within the Pro League and will at its discretion take such
measures and draft such guidelines as it deems necessary to ensure that where
drug testing is conducted; it is done so in a professional manner.
8.4 Sample Analysis:
Samples (bodily specimens) will be analyzed at an independent professional
laboratory selected by the Pro League Medical Committee.
8.5 List of Prohibited Substances and Prohibited Methods:
The Pro League Medical Committee at its discretion will determine the
substances and methods that are prohibited, that are to be tested for, and that
constitute a doping offence. A list of prohibited substances and methods will be
maintained by the Pro League Medical Committee and will be made available to
all Athletes. The Pro League adopts the Rule of Strict Liability wherein Athletes
are solely responsible for what is found in their samples.
8.6 Doping Offence:
A doping offence occurs when:
1. An Athlete tests positive for the presence of a prohibited substance or its
metabolite or marker in the Athlete’s bodily specimen.
2. An Athlete is found to have used a prohibited method.
3. An Athlete, for whatever reason, refuses a test or fails to provide a proper
sample when requested to do so by the Pro League.
4. An Athlete is found guilty of trafficking in prohibited substances and/or
methods."
"8.9 Penalties:
The penalties upon a final finding for a doping offence shall be as determined by
the Pro League Medical Committee and shall consist of a series of escalating
fines and/or suspensions, or expulsion. At a minimum, the penalty for an offence
under Articles 8.6.1 shall be as follows:
1. First Offence: A USD $2,500.00 fine and a three-month suspension;
2. Second Offence: A USD $5,000.00 fine and a six-month suspension;
3. Third Offence: A USD $10,000.00 fine and a one-year suspension;
4. Fourth Offence: Expulsion from the Pro League.
At a minimum, the penalty for an offence under Articles 8.6.2 and 8.6.3 shall be
a USD $5,000.00 fine and a six-month suspension. A second offence shall result
in expulsion from the Pro League.
The penalty for an offence under Article 8.6.4 shall be expulsion from the Pro
League.
8.10 Appeal:
An Athlete may appeal a final finding to the Pro Committee pursuant to"
Shit we even have had some who have trafficked and still compete .oh aren't the rules great.
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I love the Code of Ethics !.....#8 is great.
Bob, anyone break any of these rules ?
CODE OF ETHICS
Introduction:
The Code of Ethics exist as a set of beliefs that have been written to serve as
guidelines for the way in which all Members, be they Athletes, Judges or
Officials, should strive to conduct themselves as Members of the Pro League.
Members join the Pro League of their own free will and, in so doing, agree to
abide by the Pro Rules. The Code of Ethics forms an integral part of these rules.
Any Member who is found to have contravened the Code of Ethics may be
subject to disciplinary measures.
Athletes:
We, the Pro League Athletes, realizing that our conduct reflects on the good
name of the sport of bodybuilding, fitness and figure, and realizing the
responsibility thereby placed upon us, pledge ourselves:
1. to fulfill our responsibility to society, to other Athletes, Judges and Officials
of the Pro League.
2. to honour, dignify, and support the sport of bodybuilding, fitness and figure
by competing in the best condition and to the best of our ability, and by
being in top shape when giving an exhibition or a seminar.
3. to respect our opponents on equal terms in the spirit of friendly rivalry and
good sportsmanship.
4. to respect the Pro Rules as well as the rules of competition and to observe
them honestly in cooperation with other Athletes, Judges and Officials.
5. to accept the decisions of the Judges and Officials in the spirit of good
sportsmanship without descending to selfish recriminations, realizing that
these decisions have been made honestly, fairly, and objectively.
6. to assist the Pro League in the promotion of bodybuilding, fitness and figure
by acting as a goodwill ambassador of the sport, promoting the sport in a
positive manner, and protecting the good image and integrity of the sport
and the Pro League.
7. to work for the Pro League, not against it, in promoting its values, morals
and ethics; to exercise our right of protest in a courteous, respectful manner,
following the proper chain of command; to refrain from malicious gossip
and rumour-mongering; to refrain from personal attacks against any other
Member of the Pro League.
8. to continue striving for bodily perfection and correct moral principles.
9. to honour the special trust conferred upon us by our participation in, and by
our representation of, the Pro League and our country, at international
events, and to adhere to the standards of personal conduct expected of us.
10. to recognize the value of bodybuilding, fitness and figure and to promote its
future by serving as an example to inspire other people to participate.
11. to cooperate with our Officials in the development of high standards, both
moral and physical, for the sport of bodybuilding, fitness and figure and in
the progressive furtherance of the objects of the Pro League.
12. to oppose the use of banned substances and methods and to compete drugfree.
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13. to refrain from any conduct that may be considered prejudicial.
14. to conduct ourselves at all times in a manner that reflects positively upon
the image of the sport of bodybuilding, fitness and figure, and the Pro
League.
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This will prove nothing as YOU have broken many of these rules, Lee...and nothing was done.
Yes and i have admitted usuing in my articles and they let me go.They don't care about the health of the athletes then do they when you come out and say i am usuing and they dont fine me.So we are all going to be fined and suspended.Hey i am saying i use so fine me and the others.But if you do you must do the others do,THEY to must be tested.
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This will prove nothing as YOU have broken many of these rules, Lee...and nothing was done.
Actually Chick, you and the entire PBBW show may be in breach of the ifbb pro rule book.
according to this document basically any criticism of the sport of bodybuilding by an ifbb athlete, official, judge is against the rules of the federation.... no negative comments are allowed at all!
not criticism of the ifbb but criticism of the sport in general is not allowed...
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And this is the very point I've been trying to make...There are many rules the IFBB obviously chooses to not enforce...which each and every IFBB pro has been guilty of. But the point is, these rules about conduct, etc. are meant to be more of a guideline they can use at their discression, than an enforceable rule. No one is looking to suspend an athlete for voicing his/ her opinion on the outcome of a show, or someone doing a store opening at their local Max muscle.
Joining and competing in a rival federation on the other hand is a clear and concise infraction that they will enforce...the rules also state quite clearly that you "may be subject to...", which means they reserve the right to enforce, but don't have to do a damn thing if they so choose.
I've chosen to fight for the rights to make appearances, etc. in non sanctioned events as this affects the earning power to a much higher degree, than competing in other federations does.
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Okay,
If anyone wants to take these fuckers to court it, according to them, has to take place only in a court in montreal, canada.
the pro league can drug test anybody at any time and it can be "targeted" not just random (sounds really unbiassed doesn't it...), in-competition or out-of-competition...
any behaviour can be deemed against the rules by the pro committee at any time and the committee can changed what they deem as behavious unbecoming a member whenever they like...
some of the other stuff is just AMAZINGLY unfair and unlawful it is incredible...
total stalinism
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I've chosen to fight for the rights to make appearances, etc. in non sanctioned events as this affects the earning power to a much higher degree, than competing in other federations does.
This is true today. However, if a green light were given, you'd certainly have a lot more pros than just the very berave lee, doing the PDI shows. And the PDI would sell a lot more tickets in the Euro shows. Which means more IFBB guys could earn $ on the side.
Bob, realize that many here who are beating up on you are not just 16-year old kids living in their basements. You have educated people, somewhat wise to the ways of the world, seeing thru the facade you're trying to sell the public.
When you say you want the atheltes to earn the most money possible, but won't work for them to be allowed to complete in a new federation run by the very guy who ran the IFBB shows very well for 20 years, you're insulting everyone's intelligence.
Seriously, everyone reads getbig. And they all see thru the little word games we play. Your IFBB bosses don't want guys doing the PDI shows, and you're doing nothing to change things to allow guys to earn real money. O money went from $2k in 2005 to $4k in 2006. hooray. But a PDI Euro grand prix might be a slight help to a lot of guys too.
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Again and again - in college, you can't join two fraternities - that is a clear rule and one of the most sacred.
You also can't drink, haze, get copies of tests, take someone else's beer without asking, or sleep with someone's girl, but these are rarely enforced.
But join another fraternity while you are in one fraternity is a big no-no.
Why can't you understand this simple concept. The same applies to the IFBB. Same ideas too.
And once again, you choose to join this federation. You think it is unfair, don't joi. You think it is unlawfal. Don't join. Every year, it is up to you to join or not. If you don't like it, then don't join. Don't pay your dues at the beginning of the year. Same as a fraternity. You reap the benefits of the federation if you want to.
But I know that so many NPC members wish they can be good enough to join the elite IFBB, and agree to their rules. So simple, yet you make it so complicated.
Your IFBB bosses don't want guys doing the PDI shows, and you're doing nothing to change things to allow guys to earn real money.
They can do that show if they want - but if they join another fraternity - oops - federation - don't expect to be in the one they are in.
In my fraternity days, we had someone who pledged another fraternity. He has given the choice to stay or not. He asked the same question, why, and he was told because you need to support one or the other. Simple as that.
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And this is the very point I've been trying to make...There are many rules the IFBB obviously chooses to not enforce...which each and every IFBB pro has been guilty of. But the point is, these rules about conduct, etc. are meant to be more of a guideline they can use at their discression, than an enforceable rule. No one is liooking to suspend an athlete for voicing his/ her opinion on the outcome of a show, or someone doing a store opening at their local Max muscle.
Joining and competing in a rival federation on the other hand is a clear and consise infraction that they will enforce...the rules also state quite clearly that you "may be subject to...", which means they reserve the right to enforce, but don't have to do a damn thing if they so choose.
I've chosen to fight for the rights to make appearances, etc. in non sanctioned events as this affects the earning power to a much higher degree, than competing in other federations does.
Of course lee will be suspended once he competes in the PDI but the point is how can the rule book be considered a legal document if ALL the other breaches of it ARE NOT enforced?
If he takes them to court with evidence of all these other breaches, including breaches by PBBW - according to the rule book - you really think the IFBB will win?
oh wait a minute the case would be in montreal where the IFBB probably has "friends" in high places...ie. the court system
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Where does it state that one rule carries a lesser offense if broken than others ? This is the point Lee and others are trying to make. How can one be inforced and another not ? Where and how does "discretion" come into play ? Where is it stated what is inforcable and what is overlooked ?
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Where does it state that one rule carries a lesser offense if broken than others ? This is the point Lee and others are trying to make. How can one be inforced and another not ? Where and how does "discretion" come into play ? Where is it stated what is inforcable and what is overlooked ?
exactly...
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If the IFBB is a nonprofit organization, why would it care what it's guys do on the side to make money?
Do Red Cross workers get mad if its employees do some charity work at the American Cancer Society on the weekends?
Why would a Canadian nonprofit organization care at all, if its uncontracted and often unpaid members wanted to work for an American private sports company (the PDI)?
I cannot believe this hasn't come up yet.
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Where does it state that one rule carries a lesser offense if broken than others ? This is the point Lee and others are trying to make. How can one be inforced and another not ? Where and how does "discretion" come into play ? Where is it stated what is inforcable and what is overlooked ?
Bob is stating it. Everyone is stating it. Everyone knows it. Simple as that.
Running a red light and almost hitting a car would get you a ticket much faster than speeding a little if a cop sees you. Same analogy.
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Again and again - in college, you can't join two fraternities - that is a clear rule and one of the most sacred.
You also can't drink, haze, get copies of tests, take someone else's beer without asking, or sleep with someone's girl, but these are rarely enforced.
But join another fraternity while you are in one fraternity is a big no-no.
Why can't you understand this simple concept. The same applies to the IFBB. Same ideas too.
And once again, you choose to join this federation. You think it is unfair, don't joi. You think it is unlawfal. Don't join. Every year, it is up to you to join or not. If you don't like it, then don't join. Don't pay your dues at the beginning of the year. Same as a fraternity. You reap the benefits of the federation if you want to.
But I know that so many NPC members wish they can be good enough to join the elite IFBB, and agree to their rules. So simple, yet you make it so complicated.
They can do that show if they want - but if they join another fraternity - oops - federation - don't expect to be in the one they are in.
In my fraternity days, we had someone who pledged another fraternity. He has given the choice to stay or not. He asked the same question, why, and he was told because you need to support one or the other. Simple as that.
We understand the logic Ron we just think it's bullshit :)
Bodybuilding is an INDIVIDUAL sport like golf, surfing, tennis etc.
In these sports the athletes get paid ZERO from their governing bodies but they compete wherever they want... imagine if the PGA told Tiger Woods he couldn't do an independant tournament/exhibition in Dubai or somewhere with a massive payday... he'd tell them to go fuck themselves and sue their asses off
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Where does it state that one rule carries a lesser offense if broken than others ? This is the point Lee and others are trying to make. How can one be inforced and another not ? Where and how does "discretion" come into play ? Where is it stated what is inforcable and what is overlooked ?
Welcome to life.
Much like cops CHOOSE to enforce certain laws. Jaywalking is against the law technically, but rarely enforced...seat belts, "personal use" weed, rolling through a stop sign, speeding is a great example...you could pull someone over every 2 seconds for doing 3MPH over the limit, a clear violation of the LIMIT...but for obvious reasons, they don't.
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Bob,
If the IFBB is a nonprofit organization, why would it care what it's guys do on the side to make money?
Do Red Cross workers get mad if its employees do some charity work at the American Cancer Society on the weekends?
Why would a Canadian nonprofit organization care at all, if its uncontracted and often unpaid members wanted to work for an American private sports company (the PDI)?
I cannot believe this hasn't come up yet.
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The real point is that the IFBB isn't really a governing body of anything... the sport isn't even recognised as a sport.
The IFBB own the pro league and rule it with an iron fist... it has made them loads of money but they pay no tax on it... that would be interesting to investigate fully...
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Bob,
If the IFBB is a nonprofit organization, why would it care what it's guys do on the side to make money?
Do Red Cross workers get mad if its employees do some charity work at the American Cancer Society on the weekends?
Why would a Canadian nonprofit organization care at all, if its uncontracted and often unpaid members wanted to work for an American private sports company (the PDI)?
I cannot believe this hasn't come up yet.
They don't care what you do on the side to make money...they care if you choose to support a DIFFERENT bodybuilding federation. Big Difference.
They run their club as an exclusive "members only". You join, you agree to abide by their rules. Simple as that. With paid dues comes opportunity exclusive to IFBB members...doors opening to supplement companies, increased exposure through their magazines, guest posing opportunities within the organization and sister NPC, etc.
THAT is why they run the federation the way they do. Vince T is a great example of that paying off, as he clearly See's the best opportunities have come from the IFBB and his being a part of it...according to him, the PDI has been nothing short of a bunch of broken promises and opportunities that have yet to materialize.
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Bodybuilding is an INDIVIDUAL sport like golf, surfing, tennis etc.
In these sports the athletes get paid ZERO from their governing bodies but they compete wherever they want... imagine if the PGA told Tiger Woods he couldn't do an independant tournament/exhibition in Dubai or somewhere with a massive payday... he'd tell them to go f**k themselves and sue their asses off
Bingo.
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They don't care what you do on the side to make money...they care if you choose to support a DIFFERENT bodybuilding federation. Big Difference.
They run their club as an exclusive "members only". You join, you agree to abide by their rules. Simple as that. With paid dues comes opportunity exclusive to IFBB members...doors opening to supplement companies, increased exposure through their magazines, guest posing opportunities within the organization and sister NPC, etc.
THAT is why they run the federation the way they do. Vince T is a great example of that paying off, as he clearly See's the best opportunities have come from the IFBB and his being a part of it...according to him, the PDI has been nothing short of a bunch of broken promises and opportunities that have yet to materialize.
But the IFBB is a CANADIAN NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION.
Why would they care what an American For-Proft company does?
They're not competing in a market outside of their classification, are they?
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Bob is stating it. Everyone is stating it. Everyone knows it. Simple as that.
Running a red light and almost hitting a car would get you a ticket much faster than speeding a little if a cop sees you. Same analogy.
Because Bob is stating something does not make it fact.....we have all seen that to be true. Bob, thanks for welcoming me to "life", but I have been here already for quite some time. Bottom line is that the punishment ( if it ever does happen) will be only an attempt to make an example out someone crossing over to another organization. I could give two shits about the PDI, but I do feel strongly as the "athlete`s rep" you should be representing the athletes, not a spokesperson for the IFBB.
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You want to start shit with the IFBB. Make some phone calls to the IRS, send them letters and email them. Tell them the situation with the IFBB. Make sure you mention you pay them $200 a year for membership in their organizaton. Tell them you have not recieved any tax forms from them. Not sure about this one but as a not for profit organization isn't the money you give them a tax-deductible donation. Give the IRS a list of promoters and see if those promoters paid tax on the sanction fees they sent the IFBB. If not then we all know the IFBB did not pay the tax on the sanction fee. So who is repsonsible. The IRS is probably a little disturb that $10,000+ at a time is leaving the country without being taxed. Now this has been going on for how long. We are talking millions of dollars the IFBB owes in taxes. If not then each promoter is liable for the taxes. Someone is responsible.
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Because Bob is stating something does not make it fact.....we have all seen that to be true. Bob, thanks for welcoming me to "life", but I have been here already for quite some time. Bottom line is that the punishment ( if it ever does happen) will be only an attempt to make an example out someone crossing over to another organization. I could give two shits about the PDI, but I do feel strongly as the "athlete`s rep" you should be representing the athletes, not a spokesperson for the IFBB.
I do represent the athletes, within the IFBB. That means I can't be a "rebel without a cause"...I have to work within the rules that have been set forth, and bring the voice of the athletes to the brass when something needs to be addressed or changed.
So far, I'll let my record speak for itself. If and when the athletes decide that being allowed to compete in different federations is their wish...it will be presented without hesitation.
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I do represent the athletes, within the IFBB. That means I can't be a "rebel without a cause"...I have to work within the rules that have been set forth, and bring the voice of the athletes to the brass when something needs to be addressed or changed.
So far, I'll let my record speak for itself. If and when the athletes decide that being allowed to compete in different federations is their wish...it will be presented without hesitation.
I know what you are saying and acknowladge that you are at times between a rock and a hard place.....but there is way too much grey area here and always will be.
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I do represent the athletes, within the IFBB. That means I can't be a "rebel without a cause"...I have to work within the rules that have been set forth, and bring the voice of the athletes to the brass when something needs to be addressed or changed.
So far, I'll let my record speak for itself. If and when the athletes decide that being allowed to compete in different federations is their wish...it will be presented without hesitation.
Could a proposal like this be presented with the athletes names suppressed from the IFBB brass?
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You want to start shit with the IFBB. Make some phone calls to the IRS, send them letters and email them. Tell them the situation with the IFBB. Make sure you mention you pay them $200 a year for membership in their organizaton. Tell them you have not recieved any tax forms from them. Not sure about this one but as a not for profit organization isn't the money you give them a tax-deductible donation. Give the IRS a list of promoters and see if those promoters paid tax on the sanction fees they sent the IFBB. If not then we all know the IFBB did not pay the tax on the sanction fee. So who is repsonsible. The IRS is probably a little disturb that $10,000+ at a time is leaving the country without being taxed. Now this has been going on for how long. We are talking millions of dollars the IFBB owes in taxes. If not then each promoter is liable for the taxes. Someone is responsible.
Keith,
ask wayne where the $200,000 a year he paid to the weiders in sanction fee to promote the olympia went every year?
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And this is the very point I've been trying to make...There are many rules the IFBB obviously chooses to not enforce...which each and every IFBB pro has been guilty of. But the point is, these rules about conduct, etc. are meant to be more of a guideline they can use at their discression, than an enforceable rule. No one is looking to suspend an athlete for voicing his/ her opinion on the outcome of a show, or someone doing a store opening at their local Max muscle.
Joining and competing in a rival federation on the other hand is a clear and concise infraction that they will enforce...the rules also state quite clearly that you "may be subject to...", which means they reserve the right to enforce, but don't have to do a damn thing if they so choose.
I've chosen to fight for the rights to make appearances, etc. in non sanctioned events as this affects the earning power to a much higher degree, than competing in other federations does.
Are you freaking kidding me, what do you mean "There are many rules the IFBB chose not to enforce"? The "IFBB" chose not to enforce the entire articals on drug use and the code of ethics. Example 2 is a perfect example where it states "to honor, dignify and support the sport of bodybuilding", this is just an example of how the "sport" is being honered, I post this not to be funny but to make a point........
The people who are supposed to enforce the rules are turning their backs on the rules and killing the compeitors and the industry...congrats, you're killing two birds with boulder!
Is this "dignified"?
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Are you freaking kidding me, what do you mean "There are many rules the IFBB chose not to enforce"? The "IFBB" chose not to enforce the entire articals on drug use and the code of ethics. Example 2 is a perfect example where it states "to honor, dignify and support the sport of bodybuilding", this is just an example of how the "sport" is being honered, I post this not to be funny but to make a point........
The people who are supposed to enforce the rules are turning their backs on the rules and killing the compeitors and the industry...congrats, you're killing two birds with boulder!
Is this "dignified"?
LMAO... this sport gets funnier and funnier every day.
Epic dignity.
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Welcome to life.
Much like cops CHOOSE to enforce certain laws. Jaywalking is against the law technically, but rarely enforced...seat belts, "personal use" weed, rolling through a stop sign, speeding is a great example...you could pull someone over every 2 seconds for doing 3MPH over the limit, a clear violation of the LIMIT...but for obvious reasons, they don't.
WTF are you talking about by saying to "choose to enforce certain laws" were not talking about jaywalking, seat belts (btw, that is enforced big time in Calif) or anything of the sort, this is Felony material that includes aiding and abedding. Any DEA agent can walk into ANY show in the country, pro or amature and provided they have probable cause with a search warrant and bust anyone caught with shit in their bags and the IFBB, athletes rep or whatever choose to turn your backs.
Not enforcing at least some of the rules is hipocritical to enth degree...........the two articals or even one is the prime reason why the industry has absolutly gone to shit............THANKS!
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Keith,
ask wayne where the $200,000 a year he paid to the weiders in sanction fee to promote the olympia went every year?
Well actually the last few years it was $300,000+. On top of that the expenses were paid by Wayne including a $40,000 expense bill by Manion for one week of high living for him and his family. That $40,000 could of easily been added to the prize money. Check was written to the IFBB and deposited into the bank in Canada. There was no set sanction fee, it was based on percentage. Every cost associated with the Olympia was paid for by Wayne. All advertising in the mags was paid for. No freebies to Wayne on this.
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WTF are you talking about by saying to "choose to enforce certain laws" were not talking about jaywalking, seat belts (btw, that is enforced big time in Calif) or anything of the sort, this is Felony material that includes aiding and abedding. Any DEA agent can walk into ANY show in the country, pro or amature and provided they have probable cause with a search warrant and bust anyone caught with shit in their bags and the IFBB, athletes rep or whatever choose to turn your backs.
Not enforcing at least some of the rules is hipocritical to enth degree...........the two articals or even one is the prime reason why the industry has absolutly gone to shit............THANKS!
"shit in their bags"?...at a bodybuilding show? What shit would that be? Only a complete idiot would have anything steroid related in their bags at a bodybuilding show...
Were talking about pornographic material, badmouthing the judges, etc. That is what Lee is talking about, and thus the reference to "enforcing certain rules" and the subsequent analogy...get it now?
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Only a complete idiot would have anything steroid related in their bags at a bodybuilding show...
yea but there Are a lot of complete idiots at bodybuilding shows.
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Welcome to life.
Much like cops CHOOSE to enforce certain laws. Jaywalking is against the law technically, but rarely enforced...seat belts, "personal use" weed, rolling through a stop sign, speeding is a great example...you could pull someone over every 2 seconds for doing 3MPH over the limit, a clear violation of the LIMIT...but for obvious reasons, they don't.
Nah bob they allow you 10- 12 miles.You really have no answer to the Rule question so give up.You hole is getting deeper.YOU LOOSE ON THIS ARGUMENT.
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I think things need to be in perspective here Lee wants to compete in a bodybuilding show so what if its a different organisation.
What are the ifbb afraid of that their dwindling empire will crumple all together. If their that afraid they should improve their own organisation and stop worrying about the pdi.
Arent you the athletes rep Bob as opposed to pr man for the IFBB?
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hahaha Imagine another sport where they choose to enforce some rules and not others.....FUCKING PATHETIC.
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hahaha Imagine another sport where they choose to enforce some rules and not others.....FUCKING PATHETIC.
Yes it is.
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How do you rate Bob`s performance as athletes rep so far and has anything that he has done directly affected you?
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"shit in their bags"?...at a bodybuilding show? What shit would that be? Only a complete idiot would have anything steroid related in their bags at a bodybuilding show...
Were talking about pornographic material, badmouthing the judges, etc. That is what Lee is talking about, and thus the reference to "enforcing certain rules" and the subsequent analogy...get it now?
You're shitting me right?
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Nah bob they allow you 10- 12 miles.You really have no answer to the Rule question so give up.You hole is getting deeper.YOU LOOSE ON THIS ARGUMENT.
and you just supported my argument...thank you. So you agree that they could give you a ticket, but choose not to, right?
Listen, I'm not arguing the point that certain rules are enforced, while others are not...I'm pointing out that there is a bigger value put on some laws/ rules more than others
I'm not quite sure why you're arguing with me, as It's not going to change the inevitable...you should be trying to convince your peers to support your platform and vote to change the rules.
I highly suggest you get everyone in your corner to attend the next athletes meeting, where it can be put to vote and submitted for consideration.THAT'S how things get accomplished...
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A rule is a rule is a rule. They should all be enforced since there is no classifications of them on the list.
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Listen, I'm not arguing the point that certain rules are enforced, while others are not...I'm pointing out that there is a bigger value put on some laws/ rules more than others
...you should be trying to convince your peers to support your platform and vote to change the rules.
It's not just certain rules that are not being enforced, it's entire rule articals. BTW, why should Lee try to convince his peers to follow the rules. Beside's it's not changing the rules, it's ENFORCING the one's that are already on the books!
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It's not just certain rules that are not being enforced, it's entire rule articals. BTW, why should Lee try to convince his peers to follow the rules. Beside's it's not changing the rules, it's ENFORCING the one's that are already on the books!
Try reading what I wrote, obviously, you missed the point....
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Try reading what I wrote, obviously, you missed the point....
There are no classifications listed of the rules. And a competitor should be reprimanded for doing pornographic material before being reprimanded for competing in a different league. You and the IFBB headpart are fools.
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There are no classifications listed of the rules. And a competitor should be reprimanded for doing pornographic material before being reprimanded for competing in a different league. You and the IFBB headpart are fools.
I agree...whay are you arguing with me?
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I agree...whay are you arguing with me?
Not arguing, you said there are "bigger" rules than others. If so, how are competitors involved in porn competiting without sanctions being overlooked whereas mainly just one competitor wants to compete in a different league gets slammed. It's only one competitor so why not allow him to do so. What kind of message does this send to young up and comers?
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Listen, I'm not arguing the point that certain rules are enforced, while others are not...I'm pointing out that there is a bigger value put on some laws/ rules more than others
Hey, that's pretty big news, actually. If even Bob agrees publicly that the IFBB rules are selectively enforced, Lee's case certainly might have some credence!
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Hey, that's pretty big news, actually. If even Bob agrees publicly that the IFBB rules are selectively enforced, Lee's case certainly might have some credence!
So, if Lee is suspended, ---funny you say case.
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Basically what you have here is a degraded monopoly of some 80 year old fart that is blind to see that opening the book of other federations and leagues could greatly benefit the entire industry with more money and publicity. I think we learned a lot about total control during the Communist Era.
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What about the Women?
There isn`t a single one really that isn`t involved in suggestive photos or the porn industry. Do they get the green light to do the same?
Bob,
. You should be for enforcing the rules or getting rid of the ones that aren`t enforced.
You just stand by and do nothing. Status quo eh? As long as it serves your needs.
Name another sport where they get to pick and choose different rules to follow.
You and the IFBB are being delusional retards.
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It has no credence, as the rules specifically state..." may be subject to being fined, suspended, etc"....
That means they retain the right, but are not bound to. Yes, that means they can pick and choose what rules to enforce.
There are also other athletes that have been suspended/ fined for competing in non sanctioned shows, thus setting a precedent.
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It has no credence, as the rules specifically state..." may be subject to being fined, suspended, etc"....
That means they retain the right, but are not bound to. Yes, that means they can pick and choose what rules to enforce.
There are also other athletes that have been suspended/ fined for competing in non sanctioned shows, thus setting a precedent.
What a sad sport if there are no concrete rules.
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It has no credence, as the rules specifically state..." may be subject to being fined, suspended, etc"....
That means they retain the right, but are not bound to. Yes, that means they can pick and choose what rules to enforce.
There are also other athletes that have been suspended/ fined for competing in non sanctioned shows, thus setting a precedent.
Well Bobby, the fans say this rule hinders the IFBB, the industry, and the athletes. And you have to be a fool to miss that. But I still haven't seen an answer as to Why the IFBB thinks pornographic business ventures is a positive influence?
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Well Bobby, the fans say this rule hinders the IFBB, the industry, and the athletes. And you have to be a fool to miss that. But I still haven't seen an answer as to Why the IFBB thinks pornographic business ventures is a positive influence?
I'm sure they dont...It's my OPINION, and ONLY my opinion...that they do nothing on the womens porn issue because if they did enforce it, the entire womens division would collapse. That would be unfortunate for those who don't dabble in the schmo/ porn field.
I do know that Betty pariso (IFBB women's rep) is preparing/ attempting to change that.
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It has no credence, as the rules specifically state..." may be subject to being fined, suspended, etc"....
That means they retain the right, but are not bound to. Yes, that means they can pick and choose what rules to enforce.
There are also other athletes that have been suspended/ fined for competing in non sanctioned shows, thus setting a precedent.
Imagine the the NFL banned Ricky WIlliams for a year for weed, but publicly admitted to letting Peyton Manning slide on a coke charge lol...
And relaly, the defending of selective enforcement should be coming from the mouth of an IFBB official - NOT and athletes rep> The atheltes rep should be standing up shouting about the unfairness of selective enforcement.
Chic, you're becoming a walking joke here, even in the eyes of your diehard fans.
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I'm sure they dont...It's my OPINION, and ONLY my opinion...that they do nothing on the womens porn issue because if they did enforce it, the entire womens division would collapse. That would be unfortunate for those who don't dabble in the schmo/ porn field.
I do know that Betty pariso (IFBB women's rep) is preparing/ attempting to change that.
What about Rodney St. Cloud? And other male competitors that have dipped into a little porno earnings?
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I agree...whay are you arguing with me?
This post is classic.
Chick is just flabbergasted that a Chickophant would post anything even remotely argumentative about him.
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This post is classic.
Chick is just flabbergasted that a Chickophant would post anything even remotely argumentative about him.
Things are blatently ignored!
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Imagine the the NFL banned Ricky WIlliams for a year for weed, but publicly admitted to letting Peyton Manning slide on a coke charge lol...
And relaly, the defending of selective enforcement should be coming from the mouth of an IFBB official - NOT and athletes rep> The atheltes rep should be standing up shouting about the unfairness of selective enforcement.
Chic, you're becoming a walking joke here, even in the eyes of your diehard fans.
Are you Joking? Remember the Steve Howe "banned from baseball for life 8 times story? Pete Rose alledgedly bet on baseball and has STILL not been let back in...there are examples all over the place....
I'm merely giving you the reality of the situation, I didn't say I applaud it.
Standing up and shouting is exactly what Lee does....it gets nothing accomplished and falls on deaf ears. I go through the proper channels and put it on paper and submit it to make change for ALL...not one not me....ALL IFBB Pro's.
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Are you Joking? Remember the Steve Howe "banned from baseball for life 8 times story? Pete Rose alledgedly bet on baseball and has STILL not been let back in...there are examples all over the place....
I'm merely giving you the reality of the situation, I didn't say I applaud it.
Standing up and shouting is exactly what Lee does....it gets nothing accomplished and falls on deaf ears. I go through the proper channels and put it on paper and submit it to make change for ALL...not one not me....ALL IFBB Pro's.
A large number of fans feel Rose should be in the Hall and many experts and analysts say he deserves to be in.
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hahaha Imagine another sport where they choose to enforce some rules and not others.....FUCKING PATHETIC.
Could you imagine baseball, football or basketball or even golf picking and choosing what rules to enforce. A guy clearly steps out of bounds running down the field for a towndown, the refs don't call it cause they decided that day you can do that. Or the ump calls a ball that hits the foul pole a foul ball becasue that day they didn't want to call it a home run. Yep the IFBB picks and coosed what rules they want to enforce. Please the guys who compare BB to any real sport, please do not do this again. It embarrases real sports. Hell ESPN or the local news in Vegas doesn't even report who wins the Mr. Olympia. Face it, the IFBB is a company that the Weiders started so they can see muscled guy in speedos and make allot of money. They control it and whatever happens in it is their fault. Anyone who thinks Wayne was in charge of what happened in the IFBB is truly dellusional. EVERYONE knows Weider was the boss and Wayne did exactly what he was told to do. WHen he decided he no longer wanted to do what they ask he left. That's simple.
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The only thing that makes this debate interesting is the very real possibility that the IFBB and NPC power-that-be are concerned about facing a legal challenge that would require them to open their books and be subject to intense scrutiny. There's no way a steroid-laden non-profit organization wants media attention in this age of steroid-hysteria. Hopefully, Lee's attorneys are poised to do battle.
Special "Court TV" Ed
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Enquiring minds want to know. As per the following section of the IFBBPro rules:
34.11 Refund Policy:
Once the organizer pays the Pro League the total sum of the prize money, that money cannot be returned to the organizer for any reason. If, for any reason, the organizer cancels the competition, the total sum of the prize money is distributed in equal amounts to each of the competitors who signed a contract to participate in the competition.
Did that money get distributed to the athletes when the Toronto Pro was cancelled? I guess I'll wait and see if this gets deleted.
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Toronto Pro promoter Winston Smith had never paid the fee, despite his 2004 cancellation, one month out from the show.
Ask Mike/1Fast400 when his promoter fee was due.
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Toronto Pro promoter Winston Smith had never paid the fee, despite his 2004 cancellation, one month out from the show.
Ask Mike/1Fast400 when his promoter fee was due.
Actually this has nothing to do with the sanctioning fee. This has to do with the prize money which the rules say I believe the money has to be paid to the IFBB 60 days prior to the event. Yes I found it, it's 60 days.
Article 35 – Payment of Fees and Fines
35.1 Payment of Fees and Fines:
4. Prize money must be paid in full no later than sixty days before the date
scheduled for the event.
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Lee, stay strong.. change will happen with your efforts. It's about time someone stood up and PROVED how the 'rules' are not enforced strictly or legally. The fact that we hear "There are many rules the IFBB obviously chooses to not enforce" proves it's a scam. Not once have we heard the answer as to why some rules are being followed and some not.. if we get a "that's life" response (which is truly immature and and a cop-out) then the rules document is not legal and you have EVERY right to take this to court and easily win.
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Great thread - how did it not get discussed earlier?
BTW... If a pro competes clean and takes last, can he sue? If the lack of enforcement (drug testing) ruins his earning ability, placing, and winnings?
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Actually this has nothing to do with the sanctioning fee. This has to do with the prize money which the rules say I believe the money has to be paid to the IFBB 60 days prior to the event. Yes I found it, it's 60 days.
Article 35 – Payment of Fees and Fines
35.1 Payment of Fees and Fines:
4. Prize money must be paid in full no later than sixty days before the date
scheduled for the event.
By the way, just in case someone like chic or lift, or shawn comes back with "no money was collected or given to the IFBB by the promoter" then I think that all the athletes who had contracts to compete should sue the IFBB for negligence because of the prize money they failed to collect, and the remedy should be A) the original prize money B) courtcosts and reasonable attorney fees C) damages in the form of mental anguish cause by both the promoter for cancelling the show and the IFBB for not enforcing their own rules.
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The potholes in the rule book are starting to open up big time...but bigger questions are starting to emerge.
The IFBB defintely needs to be investigated by a higher authority in regards to it's business dealings. If they were paying taxes on all this sanction money then fair enough but I highly doubt it.
Also, since they are a canadian non profit organisation are they even allowed to conduct "fund raisers" - which is what contests for them basically are - in countries outside canada? probably not unless they register with the tax office of those specific countries.
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Great thread - how did it not get discussed earlier?
BTW... If a pro competes clean and takes last, can he sue? If the lack of enforcement (drug testing) ruins his earning ability, placing, and winnings?
damn good question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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First off,
Where the hell are they?
If you go to the IFBB.com site you get a link to the rules of the IFBB and you click on a PDF file which is a lengthy document which is clearly the IFBB "AMATEUR" rule book mainly referring to issues in regards to the IFBB world championships - Ben Weider's baby
Chick, does this rulebook apply to the pros?
I was looking for the same thing when I was about to turn pro.
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and you just supported my argument...thank you. So you agree that they could give you a ticket, but choose not to, right?
Listen, I'm not arguing the point that certain rules are enforced, while others are not...I'm pointing out that there is a bigger value put on some laws/ rules more than others
I'm not quite sure why you're arguing with me, as It's not going to change the inevitable...you should be trying to convince your peers to support your platform and vote to change the rules.
I highly suggest you get everyone in your corner to attend the next athletes meeting, where it can be put to vote and submitted for consideration.THAT'S how things get accomplished...
No i am saying they let you go 10-12 miles over due to different tire size .all makes and modles have different speEdo calibrations so to say it's 60 and someone is doing 65 on thier radar but in the car thier speedo might say 60.So they let you go 10 or so that way they know you are way ove.IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE IFBB RULES YOU DUMB IDIOT :) WE TAKE DRUGS KNOW FACT,PEOPLE ARE NAKED ON VIDEO AND IN PRINT,PEOPLE HAVE BAD MOUTHED EACH OTHER AND CONTESTS ETC BUT COMPETE IN A DIFFERENT SHOW AND THE RULES SUDDENLY APPEAR TO BE UPHELD COME ON IT'S A JOKE JUST ADMITT IT.
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No i am saying they let you go 10-12 miles over due to different tire size .all makes and modles have different spedo calibrations so to say it's 60 and someone is doing 65 on thier radar but in the car thier speedo might say 60.So they let you go 10 or so that way they know you are way ove.IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE IFFBB RULES YOU DUMB IDIOT :) WE TAKE DRUGS KNOW FACT,PEOPLE ARE NAKED ON VIDEO AND IN PRINT,PEOLE HAVE BAD MOUTHED EACH OTHER AND CONTESTS ETC BUT COMPETE IN A DIFFERENT SHOW AND THE RULES SUDDENLY APPEAR TO BE UPHELD COME ON IT'S A JOKE JUST ADMITT IT.
I hope Chick realises the shit storm that is going to erupt if the IFBB do ban/fine Lee for doing the PDI show...
The most popular athlete in the entire sport from a fan perspective - easy the most popular - being thrown out for trying to raise money for his new foundation aimed at promoting the sport on a grassroots level...
the backlash will be huge...
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I hope Chick realises the shit storm that is going to erupt if the IFBB do ban/fine Lee for doing the PDI show...
The most popular athlete in the entire sport from a fan perspective - easy the most popular - being thrown out for trying to raise money for his new foundation aimed at promoting the sport on a grassroots level...
the backlash will be huge...
I love the internet and grassroots fan movements. Web really is the great equalizer.
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if rules are rules well then they should enforce all of them instead of only enforcing what is of benefit to ifbb.If athletes are independent contractors why cant they earn outside?????doesnt hurt other sports if ifbb allowed that it would make things lot easier for all involved.
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I love the internet and grassroots fan movements. Web really is the great equalizer.
Ron is the guy we need to thank robbie...
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If a pro competes clean and takes last, can he sue? If the lack of enforcement (drug testing) ruins his earning ability, placing, and winnings?
Again, can somebody shed some light on this? What if they obvious rule infractions in golf were let go (say no penality stroke for a water shot) for only some competitors. Could this type of thing go to court if those that followed the rules were FINANCIALLY affected? It seems to me like they could - perhaps on a discrimination angle even...
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Again, can somebody shed some light on this? What if they obvious rule infractions in golf were let go (say no penality stroke for a water shot) for only some competitors. Could this type of thing go to court if those that followed the rules were FINANCIALLY affected? It seems to me like they could - perhaps on a discrimination angle even...
The difference is...a penalty stroke affects the outcome of the competition, whether or not someone had naked pictures for sale does not.
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Great thread - how did it not get discussed earlier?
BTW... If a pro competes clean and takes last, can he sue? If the lack of enforcement (drug testing) ruins his earning ability, placing, and winnings?
Sue on what basis? All athletes are subject to testing. Any enforcement or lack therof, is on level playing field.
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The difference is...a penalty stroke affects the outcome of the competition, whether or not someone had naked pictures for sale does not.
yeah but he was asking about someone competing clean and the other competitors not being disqualified or even tested for drugs as per the IFBB pro rule book (including random, targeted and both in and out of competition testing according to the document).
doesn't this person have a case against the ifbb for not enforcing their own rules since there nonenforcement has negatively affected his result - guys on drugs beat him - and the amount of money he receives from competing?
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How would we know if anyone else was on drugs?
Hypothetically...
I suppose If everyone was tested and everone was disqualified except for one guy who tested clean..he would win anyway...there would be no need to sue.
For that matter...how would we know this guy was clean?
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lets say this guy competes clean and comes last in a show of 14 guys.
surely a show of 14 guys should have perhaps 3-4 guys who would be randomly or targeted tested for drugs by the ifbb.
our point is that there is effectively no testing in the ifbb for performance enhancement - i personally believe people should be able to take whatever they like - when the pro rule book clearly states that they perform both targeted and random testing both in and out of competition.
the rule book on drugs isn't being followed at all yet the rule about guys competing somewhere else are rigidly enforced.
can't you see how unprofessional that makes the ifbb look chick?
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Actually this has nothing to do with the sanctioning fee. This has to do with the prize money which the rules say I believe the money has to be paid to the IFBB 60 days prior to the event. Yes I found it, it's 60 days.
Article 35 – Payment of Fees and Fines
35.1 Payment of Fees and Fines:
4. Prize money must be paid in full no later than sixty days before the date
scheduled for the event.
Not in all cases (Colorado Pro). And why does the promoter have to pay the IFBB the prize money. Does the IFBB write the check to the competitor and if so does the IFBB take out the taxes or does the competitor pay them. And do the competitors fill out a 1099 (or whatever form it is). Also, does the IFBB pay the interest paid on this money back to the promoter or do they get to keep it. And yes I know it might not be much but when you add up all the prize money and all the years they have been doing this it adds up to allot of money And if a competitor is getting paid from a Canadian company from a Canadian bank doesn't the competitor now have to pay tax twice, once fro Canada and once from the US. Or is all this just ignored. Really interesting.
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And what is the problem about drug testing EVERY competitor.
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Not in all cases (Colorado Pro).
That's bullshit and you know it. Move on Keifer.
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the ifbb pro rule book is kinda like the ten commandments.
but only one of the commandments directly affects the ifbb's bottom line so thats the only one that is actually a considered a sin...
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That's bullshit and you know it. Move on Keifer.
Issac no more argueing. I was just saying the IFBB did not require the Colorado Pro to put in the bank the prize money. Thats all. I am not argueing just saying as an example. If I knew anymore I would have used them instead.
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Issac no more argueing. I was just saying the IFBB did not require the Colorado Pro to put in the bank the prize money. Thats all. I am not argueing just saying as an example. If I knew anymore I would have used them instead.
Try the Orlando Pro show, You know the one where the promoter was going to promote a PDI show. The one where guys still haven't been paid. The Colorado Pro guys all got paid within 60 days, less then 30.
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Try the Orlando Pro show, You know the one where the promoter was going to promote a PDI show. The one where guys still haven't been paid. The Colorado Pro guys all got paid within 60 days, less then 30.
yeah but did they give the ifbb the prize money 60 days BEFORE the show as per the ifbb pro rule book?
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Theres an example for you...!
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yeah but did they give the ifbb the prize money 60 days BEFORE the show as per the ifbb pro rule book?
No...the prize money OR sanction fee wasn't put up before the show as Wayne decided it wasn't necessary and for some reason, trusted James Goad...who inturn, stiffed the athletes.
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we are talking about the colrado pro show bob not the orlando...
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Try the Orlando Pro show, You know the one where the promoter was going to promote a PDI show. The one where guys still haven't been paid. The Colorado Pro guys all got paid within 60 days, less then 30.
Yeah, and I was refering to the Orlando, as Issac pointed out.
I don't know for sure if the prize money was put up 60 days out...I do know that a special account was set up for the show many months out, the same account the prize money came out of. There was never a question a multi-million dollar company had the money to pay the athletes....
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in reagrds to the orlando and wayne i'm not pro wayne or pro PDI at all - i think wayne is just as much a crook as the weiders - sorry keith!
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i didn't doubt vyotech had the cash but technically the rule book still wasn't followed yet again... it needs to be thrown in the trash and NOT used as the excuse to stop any bodybuilder competing wherever and whenever he wants...
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i didn't doubt vyotech had the cash but technically the rule book still wasn't followed yet again... it needs to be thrown in the trash and NOT used as the excuse to stop any bodybuilder competing wherever and whenever he wants...
Who said it wasn't followed, and the money was put up? If ou have knowledge of this, please speak up...
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didn't phil's cheque come straight from the vyotech account that had problems clearing?
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Yeah, and I was refering to the Orlando, as Issac pointed out.
I don't know for sure if the prize money was put up 60 days out...I do know that a special account was set up for the show many months out, the same account the prize money came out of. There was never a question a multi-million dollar company had the money to pay the athletes....
Kind of like Enron. Still why wan't the money given to the IFBB 60 days out from the show. And I am talking about the Colorado Pro not the Orlando. SO far no one has answered this. Why not.
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Kind of like Enron. Still why wan't the money given to the IFBB 60 days out from the show. And I am talking about the Colorado Pro not the Orlando. SO far no one has answered this. Why not.
It's easier for them to point at a show a few years ago than to face the fact that Phil heath's check from VYOTECH bounced this year.
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blah, blah, blah....same shit.
It was alredy explained a million times that it was a simple bank error and nothing more...Phil himself came on here and explained it...
The question is, 240...why didn't Wayne follow the rules, allowing for the athletes to get screwed over?
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good question chick... any answers 240?
maybe wayne is a snake perhaps?
the ifbb rule book still sucks though!
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Kind of like Enron. Still why wan't the money given to the IFBB 60 days out from the show. And I am talking about the Colorado Pro not the Orlando. SO far no one has answered this. Why not.
I thought you were done arguing on this. I make a point about your beloved PDI promoter who didn't even succeed in promoting the show that still has info on his site. ALL the ATHLETES were paid at the Colorado Pro show.
You and 240 would try and debate what kind of corn is in Chic's shit.
Answer Chic's question on Wayne and the Orlando promoter. That's right you don't know. STFU.
:-*
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Still no answer to my simple question. Why was the Colorado Pro not reuqired to follow the rules of the IFBB and make their deposit to the IFBB 60 days out from the show. SO simple yet no one answers since I have asked this question since the show.
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I thought you were done arguing on this. I make a point about your beloved PDI promoter who didn't even succeed in promoting the show that still has info on his site. ALL the ATHLETES were paid at the Colorado Pro show.
You and 240 would try and debate what kind of corn is in Chic's shit.
Answer Chic's question on Wayne and the Orlando promoter. That's right you don't know. STFU.
:-*
Hey you fucking little queer you STFU. You nor any of your lovers can answer my question. You are right and I have said so I don't knwo you dumb fuck. Now you answer my question. Be a fucking man Issac you forget we all know whast you look like so calling you a man is a stretch but since I have no evidence you have a pussy so right now you are a man but barely.
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Still no answer to my simple question. Why was the Colorado Pro not reuqired to follow the rules of the IFBB and make their deposit to the IFBB 60 days out from the show. SO simple yet no one answers since I have asked this question since the show.
Who says they didn't? It's been well documented that it was a BANK ERROR not Vyotech's error on the check.
Your turn.
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Still no answer to my simple question. Why was the Colorado Pro not reuqired to follow the rules of the IFBB and make their deposit to the IFBB 60 days out from the show. SO simple yet no one answers since I have asked this question since the show.
Here's a simple answer: because they showed a account set up specifically for the show with a balance sufficient to pay the athletes 5 times over...that's why.
Personally, I could give a rats ass if the money is given to the IFBB, put in a seperate account, put in escrow, or held by securiy in a haliburton briefcase.
I submitted and was granted a passing vote on the item of the IFBB backing up the purse upon the promoter failing to pay the athletes...
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Who says they didn't? It's been well documented that it was a BANK ERROR not Vyotech's error on the check.
Your turn.
I thoght the IFBB account was in Canada. The bank error was from a Danver account at US Bank. Not the IFBB. Why does the IFBB require by the rule book you give them the money to put in there bank.
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Will be interesting to see what happens the next time an IFBB promoter fails to pay the athletes.
Will Jim stick to his promise to personally cover it or not... hope so for the bbers sake
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I thoght the IFBB account was in Canada. The bank error was from a Danver account at US Bank. Not the IFBB. Why does the IFBB require by the rule book you give them the money to put in there bank.
They chaanged the rules because of Wayne's failure to collect the prize money upfront, or have any assurance of the funds being accounted for.
As I just stated, the account was a Vyotech account that was set up foir the show....this isn't difficult, Keith.
There was never a fear of the athletes NOT getting paid.
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They chaanged the rules because of Wayne's failure to collect the prize money upfront, or have any assurance of the funds being accounted for.
As I just stated, the account was a Vyotech account that was set up foir the show....this isn't difficult, Keith.
There was never a fear of the athletes NOT getting paid.
the show was legit we aren't questioning it - I also don't believe they should give the ifbb the money 60 days in advance (why let them collect interest on it) - the whole point is the rule book wasn't followed YET again...
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blah, blah, blah....same shit.
It was alredy explained a million times that it was a simple bank error and nothing more...Phil himself came on here and explained it...
The question is, 240...why didn't Wayne follow the rules, allowing for the athletes to get screwed over?
Don't ya just love it when 240 bails when he can't answerr a question...classic.
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This thread is complete bullshit, we want the rules enforced (at the very least the code of conduct) to make this train wreck of a federation better and to bring at least some legitimacy to the industry and Chick and the other IFBB cronies are putting a spin to every legit question asked. It's quite clear that their happy in their own little moraly currupt drug infested world and not willing to make it more acceptable to the general public or the fans that contribute.
And according to the rule book, Jocelyn Pellitier kicked everyone's ass in every pro show he entered, to all the people who made fun of him....looks like HE SHOULD have the last laugh!
Again Chick, thanks for keeping the industry as f**ked up as it's been for the 12 or so years!
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I thoght the IFBB account was in Canada. The bank error was from a Danver account at US Bank. Not the IFBB. Why does the IFBB require by the rule book you give them the money to put in there bank.
The athletes were paid, what more do you want?
Still waiting on the answer to your fellow PDI promoter. Why has he failed to pay up?
You got too much sun today Keith, have your cabana boy put some aloe on your back and go to bed.
8)
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This thread is complete bullshit, we want the rules enforced (at the very least the code of conduct) to make this train wreck of a federation better and to bring at least some legitimacy to the industry and Chick and the other IFBB cronies are putting a spin to every legit question asked. It's quite clear that their happy in their own little moraly currupt drug infested world and not willing to make it more acceptable to the general public or the fans that contribute.
And according to the rule book, Jocelyn Pellitier kicked everyone's ass in every pro show he entered, to all the people who made fun of him....looks like HE SHOULD have the last laugh!
Again Chick, thanks for keeping the industry as f**ked up as it's been for the 12 or so years!
Remind us again what you've done to further the sport...
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lets say this guy competes clean and comes last in a show of 14 guys.
surely a show of 14 guys should have perhaps 3-4 guys who would be randomly or targeted tested for drugs by the ifbb.
our point is that there is effectively no testing in the ifbb for performance enhancement - i personally believe people should be able to take whatever they like - when the pro rule book clearly states that they perform both targeted and random testing both in and out of competition.
the rule book on drugs isn't being followed at all yet the rule about guys competing somewhere else are rigidly enforced.
can't you see how unprofessional that makes the ifbb look chick?
Thanks for helping explain my point. Didn't Mike Morris compete at the O last year clean for health reasons? He could sue because he took last and didn't make any $. I guarantee if major league baseball decided to not enfore a rule and it made the difference in placings and $ there would be major lawsuits.
The difference here is... almost nothing. I am just surprized it really never came up earlier.
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240/onlyme...
why didn't wayne follow the ifbb pro rules when he was in charge and what makes anyone believe he'll act honestly now?
you guys are his right hand men aren't ya?
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Remind us again what you've done to further the sport...
I've got a better question...what have you, Chick or any other IFBB official done to better the INDUSTRY (it's not a sport)? Please Remind me. I've been either in or around this industry for the last 32 years and it's gone to shit!!
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I've got a better question...what have you, Chick or any other IFBB official done to better the INDUSTRY (it's not a sport)? Please Remind me. I've been either in or around this industry for the last 32 years and it's gone to shit!!
Is this guy serious?
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Is this guy serious?
I'm dead serious!
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I've got a better question...what have you, Chick or any other IFBB official done to better the INDUSTRY (it's not a sport)? Please Remind me. I've been either in or around this industry for the last 32 years and it's gone to shit!!
If you have been around so long then clearly you have an answer for us. Do tell Mr. Intenseone, if its gone to shit what have you done to help or have you merely contributed to this world of shit you speak of?
FYI - I'm not an IFBB official. Hope this helps.
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If you have been around so long then clearly you have an answer for us. Do tell Mr. Intenseone, if its gone to shit what have you done to help or have you merely contributed to this world of shit you speak of?
FYI - I'm not an IFBB official. Hope this helps.
I've tried giving an answer but it obviously falls on deaf ears!
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Do a little homework before spouting off and sounding stupid...
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Didn't Mike Morris compete at the O last year clean for health reasons? He could sue because he took last and didn't make any $.
HAHA SUE for what? Showing up out of shape? Yeah that's a good one.
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I think chick has made positive strides.
he couldn't go backwards since everyone's backs were so firmly against the wall when wayne was in charge of the ifbb pros lets face it.
i'd just like him to admit some of the home truths once in a while instead of toeing the line so much...
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Do a little homework before spouting off and sounding stupid...
Answer the question instead of putting a spin on it!
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HAHA SUE for what? Showing up out of shape? Yeah that's a good one.
empire had a technical point about the rule book not being enforced and noone above mike in that show being tested for diddly as per the rule book requirement...
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I think chick has made positive strides.
he couldn't go backwards since everyone's backs were so firmly against the wall when wayne was in charge of the ifbb pros lets face it.
i'd just like him to admit some of the home truths once in a while instead of toeing the line so much...
If this makes sense, he's made a difference for the competitors, but what has he done for the industry as a whole?
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I've tried giving an answer but it obviously falls on deaf ears!
Steers try but that have no balls.
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I've got a better question...what have you, Chick or any other IFBB official done to better the INDUSTRY (it's not a sport)? Please Remind me. I've been either in or around this industry for the last 32 years and it's gone to shit!!
Ok - first Mr. Intenseone - give me an update of your training with Rory. Now to your question, and since I met you at the Ironman - are you serious ???
Lets just go back ten years. Did you think 10 years ago that the Olympia, Ironman, Arnold, Colorado Pro would have expos the size of what we have now with hundreds of booths and companies coming to support. Did you think that you would have 20,000+ people going through these expos. Do you not see the prize money go to record heights in the Olympia. Very well at the Arnold. The Colorado Pro.
If you remember 10 years ago, even at the Olympia in Long Beach and New York, all they were was the show, and about 20 booths. That is it. Same with the Arnold, in the old VIP Dinner room. Look at these events now.
With the rise of supplement companies, starting with Metrx, ABB and others, they brought more money into the sport than ever before. At least 40-80 pros and many amatuers have some sort of contracts, maybe even more.
Nothing was like this 10 years ago. And if you can't even admit that - get real.
Lets get ready to rumble on Getbig...
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If this makes sense, he's made a difference for the competitors, but what has he done for the industry as a whole?
he handled the Titus incident with the media pretty well.... the nbc interview was excellent saying titus had steered away from the sport long before things went to shit for him and kelly - not to mention their "personal assistant"
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Answer the question instead of putting a spin on it!
Here's a few for starters...
I. CALL TO ORDER
Mr. Manion welcomed and called the meeting to order at 4:00 p.m.
II. AGENDA ITEMS
Women’s Bodybuilding No Proposals Betty Pariso
Fitness No Proposals Adela Garcia
Figure No Proposals Jenny Lynn
Men’s Bodybuilding Eight Proposals Bob Cicherillo
The following items were proposed and voted upon by members of the IFBB Professional Division Management Team:
A. For all IFBB Pro competitions, a bodybuilder from Italy proposed having two weight classes; under 200 pounds and over 200 pounds.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was denied.
B. Upon the promoters approval, request registered IFBB Pro’s receive two free tickets to all IFBB sanctioned shows upon presentation of current IFBB Pro card.
In regards to this proposal, the following items were discussed:
- IFBB Pro’s must contact the promoter and request the tickets at least two weeks
prior to the competition date.
- Must act accordingly
- The tickets will be designated by the promoter.
- IFBB Pro’s may be asked to participate and present trophy during competition.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted.
C. Recommend the IFBB guarantee’s purses for IFBB sanctioned competitions. Mr. Manion informed group that from this point forward, if a promoter did not pay the purse, he (Mr. Manion) would take on this expense and make all payments.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted.
D. Recommend all official information related to IFBB competitions be added and updated accordingly on the official site of the IFBB, www.ifbb.com/Pro Division. Mr. Tony Blinn is the webmaster for the site and all information related to competitions will be sent to him in a timely manner so he can post it.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted.
E. Recommend judges individual scores to be made public after completion of contest.
- An IFBB judge will e-mail or fax scores to Tony Blinn to be posted on website.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted.
F. Recommend current IFBB scoring format be replaced by NPC system of scoring and/or amended, specifically the posing round.
-Eliminate posing round except for entertainment value.
-All registered male and female bodybuilding athletes must vote. Registered athletes will be contacted by their respective athlete rep. Please send vote responses to respective reps by 15 Dec 05.
-Optional for the promoter to provide prize money or a trophy.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted however, awaiting voting results from registered athletes (Item Open).
G. Recommend a mandatory number of athletes (4 – 6) be provided free airfare/hotel costs by the promoter.
- This item is left to the discretion of each promoter.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was denied.
H. Recommend Olympia qualifying placing to extend to next highest placing athletes in the event of athletes already being qualified in the top three.
- If top three are already qualified for the Olympia, then the fourth place will winner will qualify for the Olympia.
- If the top four have already qualified for the Olympia, no additional qualifications will be permitted.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted.
I. Recommend purse of IFBB sanctioned shows to have a mandatory increase of 10% of total purse, every third year of shows existence (applicable to shows with total purse under 50K). Shows with 50K + purse to increase 5% every third year.
- Promoters will try to increase prize money when possible however, they strongly disagree with being mandated to increase the prize money.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was denied.
III. CLOSING COMMENTS:
- In regards to registered IFBB athletes competing and/or providing seminars to other organizations, the following rule from the IFBB Professional Rules (2005 Edition), will be enforced:
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Ok - first Mr. Intenseone - give me an update of your training with Rory. Now to your question, and since I met you at the Ironman - are you serious ???
Lets just go back ten years. Did you think 10 years ago that the Olympia, Ironman, Arnold, Colorado Pro would have expos the size of what we have now with hundreds of booths and companies coming to support. Did you think that you would have 20,000+ people going through these expos. Do you not see the prize money go to record heights in the Olympia. Very well at the Arnold. The Colorado Pro.
If you remember 10 years ago, even at the Olympia in Long Beach and New York, all they were was the show, and about 20 booths. That is it. Same with the Arnold, in the old VIP Dinner room. Look at these events now.
With the rise of supplement companies, starting with Metrx, ABB and others, they brought more money into the sport than ever before. At least 40-80 pros and many amatuers have some sort of contracts, maybe even more.
Nothing was like this 10 years ago. And if you can't even admit that - get real.
Lets get ready to rumble on Getbig...
I think Joe (INTENSEONE)is talking more about the moral state of the sport more than anything... the girl side of thing es[pecially has gone straight into the gutter...
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In addition...I've set up a Group Health Plan for all IFBB pro's,
helped increase the prize money,
increased the purse for places 11-20/ Olympia to $4,000 ea. where previously it was 0,
helped in seetting up a financial team to help athletes with investing/ 401K,
and a legal team to help in filing suit on companies using athletes pics/ images without consent.
worked with the Olympia promoter to get the women back on the main stage/ Olympia.
set up the ist annual Flex Awards last year awarding $1,000 to each athlete voted the best in their category
need more?
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Wait a second chick...
did you table a proposal from a single (1) athlete regarding weight divisions?
why can't you table a proposal from a single athlete regarding competing in another league then instead of needing a majority of athletes asking for it as you keep saying?
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In addition...I've set up a Group Health Plan for all IFBB pro's,
helped increase the prize money,
increased the purse for places 11-20/ Olympia to $4,000 ea. where previously it was 0,
helped in seetting up a financial team to help athletes with investing/ 401K,
and a legal team to help in filing suit on companies using athletes pics/ images without consent.
worked with the Olympia promoter to get the women back on the main stage/ Olympia.
set up the ist annual Flex Awards last year awarding $1,000 to each athlete voted the best in their category
need more?
I notice there were no proposals by Betty, shouldn't she be the one getting womens bodybuilding back on the olympia stage?
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I notice there were no proposals by Betty, shouldn't she be the one getting womens bodybuilding back on the olympia stage?
It was noted before that Bob, the IFBB rep for the men had 8 motions, while the other reps (figure, fitness, female bodybuilding) didn't have any. None. Zero. Here is hoping that the next meeting, they will have a few set down in writing so they can be discussed at the meeting. (They need to be sent in before the meeting, I think)
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Wait a second chick...
did you table a proposal from a single (1) athlete regarding weight divisions?
why can't you table a proposal from a single athlete regarding competing in another league then instead of needing a majority of athletes asking for it as you keep saying?
That wasn't my proposal...
Rocket-
That was last years meeting. I'm sure Betty has a few for this year on the womens side.
I'm on the Olympia commitee, and do what I can for ALKL athletes, not just the men.
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That wasn't my proposal
So a pro can lobby the pro commitee directly without going through you then?
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Ok - first Mr. Intenseone - give me an update of your training with Rory. Now to your question, and since I met you at the Ironman - are you serious ???
Lets just go back ten years. Did you think 10 years ago that the Olympia, Ironman, Arnold, Colorado Pro would have expos the size of what we have now with hundreds of booths and companies coming to support. Did you think that you would have 20,000+ people going through these expos. Do you not see the prize money go to record heights in the Olympia. Very well at the Arnold. The Colorado Pro.
If you remember 10 years ago, even at the Olympia in Long Beach and New York, all they were was the show, and about 20 booths. That is it. Same with the Arnold, in the old VIP Dinner room. Look at these events now.
With the rise of supplement companies, starting with Metrx, ABB and others, they brought more money into the sport than ever before. At least 40-80 pros and many amatuers have some sort of contracts, maybe even more.
Nothing was like this 10 years ago. And if you can't even admit that - get real.
Lets get ready to rumble on Getbig...
As far as Rory and I, we'll start training next week sometime, his wife is having some health issues, I already started!
Now, I'm in full agreement what the suppliment companies are doing at the expos and since you mentioned it there are alot of people that go through those expos......more than attend the show, great for the suppliment companies not so great for attendance....so who making the money? Beside's Ron, I'm talking about the legitimacy of the industry. Seems to me if someone really wanted to make the industry better they would clean it up and........again, make it more appealing to the general public. The rule books are basically holding the "ahtletes" accountable for their actions but the officials refuse to enforce those rules.....why?
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Interesting question
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I think Joe (INTENSEONE)is talking more about the moral state of the sport more than anything... the girl side of thing es[pecially has gone straight into the gutter...
Thats exactly what I'm saying.
Chick....why are you posting these meeting? I already said you have done alot for the competitors.......it the industry as a whole...thats what I'm talking about and that starts with enforcing the written rules.
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So a pro can lobby the pro commitee directly without going through you then?
It was some guy from Italy, I'm not sure what his position was...
The whole purpose of a representative, is that they reflect the general ideas/ requests from the entire group...single requests will be considered, but not necessarily submitted.
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As far as Rory and I, we'll start training next week sometime, his wife is having some health issues, I already started!
Now, I'm in full agreement what the suppliment companies are doing at the expos and since you mentioned it there are alot of people that go through those expos......more than attend the show, great for the suppliment companies not so great for attendance....so who making the money? Beside's Ron, I'm talking about the legitimacy of the industry. Seems to me if someone really wanted to make the industry better they would clean it up and........again, make it more appealing to the general public. The rule books are basically holding the "ahtletes" accountable for their actions but the officials refuse to enforce those rules.....why?
A little correction...I meant to say that there are more people that attend the expos than the shows themselves. While at the Ironman I ran into alot of people that said that they are there for the expo and not the show!
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I've got a better question...what have you, Chick or any other IFBB official done to better the INDUSTRY (it's not a sport)? Please Remind me. I've been either in or around this industry for the last 32 years and it's gone to shit!!
Probably because THIS is your post...
Furthering the athletes IS furthering the sport/ industry.
What would you suggest we do?
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It was some guy from Italy, I'm not sure what his position was...
The whole purpose of a representative, is that they reflect the general ideas/ requests from the entire group...single requests will be considered, but not necessarily submitted.
I know the purpose of a rep but thanks for the clarification...
So how did an italian guy bypass the athlete's rep and get his proposal before the pro committee? gotta hand it to him...
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Probably because THIS is your post...
Furthering the athletes IS furthering the sport/ industry.
What would you suggest we do?
1. Start with enforcing the rules as they are written, they seem pretty clear, if they don't seem clear, hire a council (Attorney) to interprate. That goes for anything that would be degrading to the industry (doing porn, caught or arrested for drug possession etc,etc).
2. Suspend anyone under investigation for anything illegal until they have been ex honerated.
3. Anyone found guilty before an appeals board are to be sanctioned.
These are just a few.
Look, if you want to play like the big boys (MLB, NBA, NFL, etc) you have to act like the big boys!
Also, you would think since the IFBB has been a federation for about 75 years there would be alot more prize money instead of dividing $500,000 between 18 or so competitors. Shit, I was watching Beyond the Glory the other day with Tony Hawk (a skateborder) and this guy was pulling down $10mil deals!
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I still think live score updates via scoreboards are needed. There is still no logical reason NOT to have such.
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1. Start with enforcing the rules as they are written, they seem pretty clear, if they don't seem clear, hire a council (Attorney) to interprate. That goes for anything that would be degrading to the industry (doing porn, caught or arrested for drug possession etc,etc).
2. Suspend anyone under investigation for anything illegal until they have been ex honerated.
3. Anyone found guilty before an appeals board are to be sanctioned.
These are just a few.
Look, if you want to play like the big boys (MLB, NBA, NFL, etc) you have to act like the big boys!
Also, you would think since the IFBB has been a federation for about 75 years there would be alot more prize money instead of dividing $500,000 between 18 or so competitors. Shit, I was watching Beyond the Glory the other day with Tony Hawk (a skateborder) and this guy was pulling down $10mil deals!
Tony is an idol to millions of kids around the world. Not many people want to be BB when they grow up. Tony is a huge marketing magnet.
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Tony is an idol to millions of kids around the world. Not many people want to be BB when they grow up. Tony is a huge marketing magnet.
Point being Keith, IFBB has been around for 75+ years and hasn't done a fraction of what skatebording has done in 15years...shit, even 5 years for that matter!
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E. Recommend judges individual scores to be made public after completion of contest.
- An IFBB judge will e-mail or fax scores to Tony Blinn to be posted on website.
Mr. Manion tabled this item for a vote: Motion was accepted.
am I missing something? on the ifbb pro division website I see the scores broken down by round, but not by judge.
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am I missing something? on the ifbb pro division website I see the scores broken down by round, but not by judge.
I was gonna mention that one next... ;)
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empire had a technical point about the rule book not being enforced and noone above mike in that show being tested for diddly as per the rule book requirement...
Exactly. Mike is this one who followed the rules - looking the best he could clean (yes, I do know it was for health reasons). BUT... he did follow the rules none the less. I am willing to bet he was the only one clean and IF the rules were followed he would be $120,000 + a new car richer. That is why I think he (or others in a similar position) could sue the IFBB.
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Yeah, and Derek Anthony will give up his man-whoring to become a Doctor, and help out children in South America.......... ::)
i dont normally agree with u but that is fucking classic lmaoooooooooooooo
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I really don't understand you guys here. Is the IFBB/system perfect? I agree: no way, far from it. Is Bob Chick doing a crappy job as rep? No way, far from it. He's done a LOT with what little he's been given. Remember, as athlete rep Shawn Ray said he got nothing done because the position was powerless and no one would listen to him. Well, Bob Chick took that position and as he pointed out, brought health insurance to the athletes as well as money for all non-placing athletes (in addition to other things). That's pretty impressive.
And while I am all for competition (and hope the PDI brings good benefits for bodybuilders), is it a mere coincidence that Wayne leaves the IFBB and suddenly the athlete rep is able to get those benefits for the bodybuilders?
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I really don't understand you guys here. Is the IFBB/system perfect? I agree: no way, far atfrom it. Is Bob Chick doing a crappy job as rep? No way, far from it. He's done a LOT with what little he's been given. Remember, as athlete rep Shawn Ray said he got nothing done because the position was powerless and no one would listen to him. Well, Bob Chick took that position and as he pointed out, brought health insurance to the athletes as well as money for all non-placing athletes (in addition to other things). That's pretty impressive.
And while I am all for competition (and hope the PDI brings good benefits for bodybuilders), is it a mere coincidence that Wayne leaves the IFBB and suddenly the athlete rep is able to get those benefits for the bodybuilders?
It's not the argument whether the IFBB is perfect. Of course it's not. Nothing is perfect. We're not saying that Bob is doing a bad job...at least I'm not saying that...but what we are saying is, follow the rules. If the rules are followed (and I do understand that they cannot always be followed to a T) it will in fact make the industry better and...again, somewhat legit and more appealing to the general public and thus, create more revenue.
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It's not the argument whether the IFBB is perfect. Of course it's not. Nothing is perfect. We're not saying that Bob is doing a bad job...at least I'm not saying that...but what we are saying is, follow the rules. If the rules are followed (and I do understand that they cannot always be followed to a T) it will in fact make the industry better and...again, somewhat legit and more appealing to the general public and thus, create more revenue.
Really? Look at the rulebook and show me where in there it states ANYTHING that has to do with judging a physique (i.e. how to decide which physique is better than another).
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Bob, I saw you repeatedly ask me a question about something Wayne did in 2003 or 2004, and I have no clue. I was not involved. If you want to know, email him. If you just want to insult and embarass him, then keep asking kids on the web. :)
Bottom line, bob, is that there seems to be a split. You have done some good things as athletes rep. Athletes and fans appreciate that, and you do work hard. But your actions in the Lee Priest case have left you labeled way closer to IFBB rep than Athletes Rep. Even by your most ardent supporters here.
I don't really want to spend the next 2 months arguing this with you. We have philosophical differences in beliefs, and that is fine. I believe competition in the marketplace will make the IFBB give more prize money and put on better shows. You do not. Okay, we have different opinions. I don't think a nonprofit Can. org should be able to stop a guy from earning $ from a company in the US. You do. Okay, we have differing views.
Bottom line is that we both do care about the atheltes getting more money and having more opportunities.
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The question was asked because you like to sling mud at the IFBB, yet fail to ask the same hard questions to Wayne or the PDI...WHY?
Keith does the same thing...putting a post up about what the IFBB does NOT offer, yet failing to recognize the PDI offers nothing more than the IFBB does, sans competing where ever they want...
Of course they don't restrict their athletes from competing elsewhere...they are looking to START a federation, they have no choice.
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The question was asked because you like to sling mud at the IFBB, yet fail to ask the same hard questions to Wayne or the PDI...WHY?
Keith does the same thing...putting a post up about what the IFBB does NOT offer, yet failing to recognize the PDI offers nothing more than the IFBB does, sans competing where ever they want...
Of course they don't restrict their athletes from competing elsewhere...they are looking to START a federation, they have no choice.
Bob, if there was no IFBB and only the PDI, I would be working with you to START the new IFBB. You see, I have nothing against the IFBB- I just KNOW that 2 competitors in a field will benefit athletes and fans. That's why I want a PDI- because it means more money for the guys competing. 95% of them can't earning a living from competing- and that should change. With only one BBing federation, that will not change.
There are a million people here to sling mud at the PDI. You just listed everything they don't offer. And that is fine- the point of message boards is to entertain and get thr truth out there, and it is very true- the PDI is still a very incomplete thing. We don't know what will happen with it. We don't know if it iwll be better or worse than the IFBB, or if it will survive at all. So I'm NOT blindly supporting the PDi. When there are holes in it, I admit it. I am not a blind wayne lackey.
I just want to see more money pumped into the sport, which can allow more of these guys to make a living from it. Bbers make more sacrifices than athletes in just about any other sport. Yet most of them are broke. Yes, the O money went up from 2k to 4k this year. but those men who have qualified have ALREADY gotten a check for their placing. 80% of the IFBB guys don't make a penny from competing, not a cent.
So let's stop making this a PDI/IFBB battle- because it's not. It's about getting more opportunities for the athletes to make a living.
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The question was asked because you like to sling mud at the IFBB, yet fail to ask the same hard questions to Wayne or the PDI...WHY?
Keith does the same thing...putting a post up about what the IFBB does NOT offer, yet failing to recognize the PDI offers nothing more than the IFBB does, sans competing where ever they want...
Of course they don't restrict their athletes from competing elsewhere...they are looking to START a federation, they have no choice.
Bob, this question is not to dis-respect you in any way. I am just looking for an honest answer (I don't do long winded threads like 240 ;) )
Anyway... Being the athletes rep, why do you defend the IFBB rule book and it's current enforcement the way you have? You don't work for the IFBB, didn't write the rules, and have no power over it's enforcement. But why so much defence of the rules that have been broken and non-enforced so many times that they are meaningless? I would think that you would look at a thread like this a say, "Hey, looks like this book is open to be selectively enforced and could cost the athletes I represent money if they follow the rules. Maybe I should address this."
Will you be addressing these things (to whatever the correct forum is) to perhaps look into enforcing some of these?
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Everybody should really take a close look at the IFBB rule book. Right at the very beginning it states that the rules are not cast in stone and each situation is open for interpretation.
So by this Lee is right saying that Ben fined him, because it is the President sole authority to interpret any matter arising out of the rules. On the other hand Lee really has no basis for a case of any kind because he has agreed to this set of guidelines and its interpretations for many years.
I would love to be Lee’s Lawyer and pocket his money on a no-win scenario though.
1.4 Definitions:
The same definitions that are found in the Constitution also apply
to the Rules. The Code of Ethics, which forms an integral part of
the Constitution, also forms an integral part of the Rules and is
attached as Appendix 1.
1.5 Interpretation:
It is recognized that the Rules cannot encompass every possible
situation wherein written guidance might be sought in the
resolution of an issue. In such cases, the President has sole
authority to interpret any matter arising out of the Rules, or any
matter not encompassed by the Rules, said interpretation to be
final and binding.
1.6 Intent:
It is not intended that the Rules be considered as "cast in stone"
but instead, as guidelines. Each and every issue arising out of the
Rules must be judged on its own merits with the primary
consideration given to that which is in the best interests of the
sport of Bodybuilding.
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I don't defend the rules...I explain them. There is a difference.
I can't be the "rebel without a cause" like Lee is...I can appreciate Lee's passion for the sport, but there is a chain of command that must be followed and a procedure to getting rules changed/ enforced, etc.
There are rules I don't agree with, and I submit proposals on behalf of the athletes to change those rules. I also take into consideration, the wishes of the athletes as a WHOLE, not the one.
As for the current rules reguarding conduct, etc. Why would I challenge them? They don't enforce them anyway...I'm much more concerned about making it possible for the athletes to make appearances, give seminars, guest pose, perform, etc in non sanctioned events, than I am about competing in rival federations...which 1 person has expressed an interest in so far.
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Everybody should really take a close look at the IFBB rule book. Right at the very beginning it states that the rules are not cast in stone and each situation is open for interpretation.
So by this Lee is right saying that Ben fined him, because it is the President sole authority to interpret any matter arising out of the rules. On the other hand Lee really has no basis for a case of any kind because he has agreed to this set of guidelines and its interpretations for many years.
I would love to be Lee’s Lawyer and pocket his money on a no-win scenario though.
1.4 Definitions:
The same definitions that are found in the Constitution also apply
to the Rules. The Code of Ethics, which forms an integral part of
the Constitution, also forms an integral part of the Rules and is
attached as Appendix 1.
1.5 Interpretation:
It is recognized that the Rules cannot encompass every possible
situation wherein written guidance might be sought in the
resolution of an issue. In such cases, the President has sole
authority to interpret any matter arising out of the Rules, or any
matter not encompassed by the Rules, said interpretation to be
final and binding.
1.6 Intent:
It is not intended that the Rules be considered as "cast in stone"
but instead, as guidelines. Each and every issue arising out of the
Rules must be judged on its own merits with the primary
consideration given to that which is in the best interests of the
sport of Bodybuilding.
As I've been stating from day 1...the phrase "may be subject to..." tells the story. The IFBB can selectively enforce whichever rules they deem to be of greater importance.
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I don't defend the rules...I explain them. There is a difference.
I can't be the "rebel without a cause" like Lee is...I can appreciate Lee's passion for the sport, but there is a chain of command that must be followed and a procedure to getting rules changed/ enforced, etc.
There are rules I don't agree with, and I submit proposals on behalf of the athletes to change those rules. I also take into consideration, the wishes of the athletes as a WHOLE, not the one.
As for the current rules reguarding conduct, etc. Why would I challenge them? They don't enforce them anyway...I'm much more concerned about making it possible for the athletes to make appearances, give seminars, guest pose, perform, etc in non sanctioned events, than I am about competing in rival federations...which 1 person has expressed an interest in so far.
Thanks for the response. I would still be concerned with the "They don't enforce them anyway", but that's just my opinion :D
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As I've been stating from day 1...the phrase "may be subject to..." tells the story. The IFBB can selectively enforce whichever rules they deem to be of greater importance.
Then it's pretty evident that the "Code of Ethics" and the "Drug Testing".......the two things that should be of the utmost importance are the least important. But lets face it, drugs are going to be in any sports some more obvious than others. But the code of ethics.....that should be enforced to the fullest extent of the rule book!
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Point being Keith, IFBB has been around for 75+ years and hasn't done a fraction of what skatebording has done in 15years...shit, even 5 years for that matter!
I agree 100%.
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Everybody should really take a close look at the IFBB rule book. Right at the very beginning it states that the rules are not cast in stone and each situation is open for interpretation.
So by this Lee is right saying that Ben fined him, because it is the President sole authority to interpret any matter arising out of the rules. On the other hand Lee really has no basis for a case of any kind because he has agreed to this set of guidelines and its interpretations for many years.
I would love to be Lee’s Lawyer and pocket his money on a no-win scenario though.
1.4 Definitions:
The same definitions that are found in the Constitution also apply
to the Rules. The Code of Ethics, which forms an integral part of
the Constitution, also forms an integral part of the Rules and is
attached as Appendix 1.
1.5 Interpretation:
It is recognized that the Rules cannot encompass every possible
situation wherein written guidance might be sought in the
resolution of an issue. In such cases, the President has sole
authority to interpret any matter arising out of the Rules, or any
matter not encompassed by the Rules, said interpretation to be
final and binding.
1.6 Intent:
It is not intended that the Rules be considered as "cast in stone"
but instead, as guidelines. Each and every issue arising out of the
Rules must be judged on its own merits with the primary
consideration given to that which is in the best interests of the
sport of Bodybuilding.
Thank you Mr. Manion for explaining this
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Basically the PDI is a company that charges it employees to work for them. The employees do all the work, do all the promoting and take all the sacrifices while the employer (PDI) reaps all the riches with absolutely 100% indemnity(?).It's really that simple. And even worse than an employer cause for all the employees do to promote the employer and them money they recieve nothing back.
No pay
No insurance
No retirement fund
No security
No support
No legal counsel
No freedom
No profit sharing
No Christmas Party
No paid vacations
No per diem
No residuals
No roid allowance
So basically the BB's who compete in the PDI are.....................
Here you go KEITH, Just though I would help you out a little...
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Besides charging 200 a yr for your Pro Card, of the things you listed,what does the IFBB do for the athletes?
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Besides charging 200 a yr for your Pro Card, of the things you listed,what does the IFBB do for the athletes?
Nothing, except give opportunity...
This was Keith's original post, I figured I would post it rather than explain it...
onlyme
Getbig V
Posts: 8523
Don't f**k With Bears
Re: IFBB Rules? Is Lee Priest right?
« Reply #6 on: Today at 12:54:34 AM »
Quote Remove
Basically the IFBB is a company that charges it employees to work for them. The employees do all the work, do all the promoting and take all the sacrifices while the employer (IFBB) reaps all the riches with absolutely 100% indemnity(?).It's really that simple. And even worse than an employer cause for all the employees do to promote the employer and them money they recieve nothing back.
No pay
No insurance
No retirement fund
No security
No support
No legal counsel
No freedom
No profit sharing
No Christmas Party
No paid vacations
No per diem
No residuals
No roid allowance
So basically the BB's who compete in the IFBB are..................... ..........
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Besides charging 200 a yr for your Pro Card, of the things you listed,what does the IFBB do for the athletes?
According to Bob, he gets to attend a christmas party
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Bob,
the IFBB selective application of their rulebook, and blatant promotion of drug usage
does not bode well for any court case (remember Jay Cutler?), regarding their "rules".
There is no clearly defined hieracrchy of importance to their rules, that you had mentioned.
I do not think the IFBB lawyers can reference Bob C's "welcome to life" statement as a guidline
for determining which rules can and cannot be enforced.
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Bob,
the IFBB selective application of their rulebook, and blatant promotion of drug usage
does not bode well for any court case (remember Jay Cutler?), regarding their "rules".
There is no clearly defined hieracrchy of importance to their rules, that you had mentioned.
I do not think the IFBB lawyers can reference Bob C's "welcome to life" statement as a guidline
for determining which rules can and cannot be enforced.
The IFBB is a private company, and thus can pick and choose what they wish to enforce...the IFBB lawyers can simply refer to the phrases, "may be subject to..." and "we reserve the right..."
BTW, there is no blatent promotion of drug use, there are clear cut rules the can enforce IF THEY WISH to, at any time...
Are you seeing the light now?
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The IFBB is a private company, and thus can pick and choose what they wish to enforce...the IFBB lawyers can simply refer to the phrases, "may be subject to..." and "we reserve the right..."
BTW, there is no blatent promotion of drug use, there are clear cut rules the can enforce IF THEY WISH to, at any time...
Are you seeing the light now?
Chick, they seem to have left out "private company" in this description...
"The IFBB is a legal entity under the laws of the Government of Canada, founded in 1946 and federally incorporated as a not-for-profit organization"
The promotion of drug use by the IFBB isn't too terribly difficult to discern... just drug test any IFBB 'athlete' at a contest, per the rules.
that begs the question Chick, why doens't the ifbb enforce their own rules??
BTW- if the the IFBB lawyers have such an upper hand with this "loophole" of yours, then how did Cutler scare the IFBB into throwing out his failed drug tests at the 2001 olympia?
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I hope Lee take you ass holes to court, they will reach a verdict in his favor. Your Jim Crowe laws are BS. When a governing body, private or public decides to pick and choose which law is enforceable and which arent, then all those laws are void.
Lee was talking about following the RULES...plain and simple, but puppet and rat cant talk about RULES , they talk about one specific rule as if it is better than the others....
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Chick, they seem to have left out "private company" in this description...
"The IFBB is a legal entity under the laws of the Government of Canada, founded in 1946 and federally incorporated as a not-for-profit organization"
The promotion of drug use by the IFBB isn't too terribly difficult to discern... just drug test any IFBB 'athlete' at a contest, per the rules.
that begs the question Chick, why doens't the ifbb enforce their own rules??
BTW- if the the IFBB lawyers have such an upper hand with this "loophole" of yours, then how did Cutler scare the IFBB into throwing out his failed drug tests at the 2001 olympia?
Simple...Jay beat them at their own game.
The drug testing was supposed to be from an accredited IOC lab...it wasn't.
Thus the drug test could not be enforced.
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Chick,
Is the IFBB helping Cormier out at all with his medical bills due to his recent spinal infection? He was in the hospital for quite some time and told me he was trying to get home care because the hospital was costing him way too much. Did the IFBB Benefits package help him out at all?
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"The IFBB is a legal entity under the laws of the Government of Canada, founded in 1946 and federally incorporated as a not-for-profit organization"
btw, there is no evidence that the IFBB was founded in 1946. Dan Lurie used the name first for his Jan 1948 contest. The first Weider IFBB contest was in May 1948.
The first international congress of nationall IFBB chapters was 1964.
A search of Canadian records show the IFBB was incorporated on December 30, 1969.
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Imagine this now. A person dedicates himself to bodybuilding 100%. Trains with the intensity enough to fall an elephant, eats according to the clock and sets a bedtime. He loves bodybuilding. LOVES bodybuilding for whatever reason. It's what makes him happy.
Unfortunately, he dreams of becoming the best bodybuilder in the world. He's been told that he was meant to achieve this sometime in his life. He knows that if he wanted he could actually become a professional bodybuilder.
He has a difficult decision to make. That is to take an illegal drug to enter a legal industry. He knows he HAS to take steroids to compete with the pros! Know why? Because EVERY OTHER PRO HE MIGHT EVER COMPETE WITH ALSO TAKES STEROIDS. OK, everyone reading this knows that already but that fact is far more significant than it's perceived by the public (because bodybuilding remains unknown).
If he is intelligent, this person will accept bodybuilding as nothing more than a lifestyle or hobby. As long as he has his options, pursuing a position on the pro ranks in bodybuilding will be something he will forever regret. Dedicating himself to what he loves to do will get him nothing in life because:
1.) He's risking his health/life
2.) He will make no money at all unless he chooses to up his doses of anabolic steroids (increasing the likelihood of reason #1).
3.) He might die living with regret over his career choice.
I'm glad to have the ability to accept all of this as a fact, as it remains to be for now, so that I'm sure to be able to explore more options to choose a respectable profession to dedicate my life to. What I'm saying is that deep in my heart I love bodybuilding and to not be able to put that part of my heart into this sport is something I have to will myself to do for my own good.
I'd like to share an excerpt from Bob Paris' Gorilla Suit, one that changed the direction of my life and put me into better perspective as to what I should do with it.
"A vision-a fantastical, imaginary movie clip-has continually run through my mind during the last year. I am climbing, climbing, climbing all alone, to the top of this enormous mountain. I fall sometimes-a lot, actually; hurt myself; get up; climb some more; fall down again. It seems as if I've been climbing this mountain forever. After a while, when I'm close enough to the top to see it through breaks in the cloud cover, I pull out my map, to see where I am and discover that I've gone up the wrong mountain. Now, this mountain that I'm on is a high one-I can tell this from the map it's every bit as high as the one I thought I was climbing. It's just not the right one. The other mountain is the one that many dream of climbing because the hand of fate has lent it greater prestige. It is easy to get them confused; the way my map is drawn the two look a great deal alike. But it's still the wrong one. And I get mad at myself, and I cuss out the mountain, and I cuss out the mapmaker, and I cuss out all the rocks I've tripped over and the crevices I've fallen into on the way up. But in spite of all that cussing, I'm still on this mountain."
It's really quite depressing from this perspective.
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Guys who have a criminal record or who do porn do get penalized if the IFBB feels like it. Usually in the way of bad placings. Did Cormier really deserve 2nd place at all those Arnold Classics? Rusty Jeffers getting 6th place?
Edit: This is of course worse than publically suspending someone for these things.
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Jeffers got 8th at the masters pro
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Simple...Jay beat them at their own game.
The drug testing was supposed to be from an accredited IOC lab...it wasn't.
Thus the drug test could not be enforced.
now you're begging to sound like wayne
not even your pal shawn ray bought that story.....
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Well, Ronnie will easily won the O this year when they drug test everybody else. They can.
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10 months i had a bet with Jason Mathis at the time he used to write for muscle mag.He could test me anytime and if i was positive i would pay him 10,000 and vice versa if i was clean..It was a little harder recovery wise and training just took loads of supplements but it can be done just alot harder .
I think it is cool how Lee will admit what many will not.
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I think it is cool how Lee will admit what many will not.
Wierd cause he seems like a liar to me.
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Jeffers got 8th at the masters pro
he was punished severly for having a mustache...
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I think it is cool how Lee will admit what many will not.
It's called having balls and not having to depend on the IFBB for income. What that does is give Lee the power to say what he wants cause he has other ways of making money. Most of the pros don't know how to do anything but lift, eat and shoot themsleves with roids. So they have to play ball with the IFBB and make sure the IFBB wins all the time.
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The IFBB is a private company, and thus can pick and choose what they wish to enforce...the IFBB lawyers can simply refer to the phrases, "may be subject to..." and "we reserve the right..."
BTW, there is no blatent promotion of drug use, there are clear cut rules the can enforce IF THEY WISH to, at any time...
Are you seeing the light now?
Nice to know a private company doesn't pay any tax...
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As I've been stating from day 1...the phrase "may be subject to..." tells the story. The IFBB can selectively enforce whichever rules they deem to be of greater importance.
So in one of the biggest public forums of its kind in the world, you are admitting that the IFBB DOES NOT consider the drug use of their members a great importance. So, you are saying for the IFBB is that they care less about the members health and well being and would rather put emphasis on how they can make money. Man, you represent a pretty interesting company. No wonder why the IFBB is so fucked up. They have horrible morals.
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The IFBB is a private company, and thus can pick and choose what they wish to enforce...the IFBB lawyers can simply refer to the phrases, "may be subject to..." and "we reserve the right..."
BTW, there is no blatent promotion of drug use, there are clear cut rules the can enforce IF THEY WISH to, at any time...
Are you seeing the light now?
I don't see the light. I think it is a dark room you are in. And they are not a private company. Isthiswhat they told you in the meeting. Being a not for profit organization is different from a private company. An entirely different set of laws and rules. And do you enjoy working for a company that takes the hard earned money from yourfellow BB's and they don't pay any tax on it,yet your fellow BB's have to. In fact any check from the IFBB has to pay Canadian and US taxes.
BTW, the IFBB promotes blantant drug use more than any other industry in the world. Godamm Chic, do you really not see it. By not penalizing members for doing drugs, you are promoting the use of them more than if you sold them to the members themselves. Don't tell me you don't see this. Are you truly this blind? The IFBB is the biggest promoter of steroid use in the world. They are the only oganization that promotes it. Not upholding the rules is encouraging the breaking of them. Another reason why the IFBB, Manion and the Weiders suck.
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this is not in the defence of the ifbb or bob
but has lee even followed the correct paths to get this problem fixed. you just cant say stuff like that on the radio and on message boards and expect the ifbb do what he says. what he should do is speak to the big cheese ben or joe weider (i dunno which is dead) and give him a warning and tell him to follw the rules or im going to sue your ass :D i dont think the weiders know whats happenning to their company except what jim manion is telling them. if the weiders knew what they had built from the ground up is nothing more than a disgrace and a joke in the mainstreams eye i think he would enforce the rules very fast
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I've tried and tried and just cannot find any Official information in IFBB being an Official Non-Profit Organization in Canada. I just checked the govt database - nothing. How can this be. If they were truely non-profit, they should have a BN/Registration Number and their books would be Open (like all other charities there). Am I missing something here?
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I've tried and tried and just cannot find any Official information in IFBB being an Official Non-Profit Organization in Canada. I just checked the govt database - nothing. How can this be. If they were truely non-profit, they should have a BN/Registration Number and their books would be Open (like all other charities there). Am I missing something here?
I think Tim said they were the IFBB for over 20 FREAKING years before the even registered as being in existence with the canadian goverment...
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I think Tim said they were the IFBB for over 20 FREAKING years before the even registered as being in existence with the canadian goverment...
If they did register I cannot find it anywhere. Ane their books are public like all the other Charities, etc out there...
Why are they so hard to find in the govt database? Are they in there?
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no mention of the IFBB or even bodybuilding on the official "sports canada" website from what I could find...
http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/sc/index_e.cfm
they even have a ski jumping federation!
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doesn't look like sports quebec have the ifbb on their books as a federation either... ::)
http://www.sportsquebec.com/sq/index_f.aspx?ArticleID=41
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CAn we write to them and ask for their non-profit ID number. I think they have to give it our upon request... (pending they even have one).
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no mention of the IFBB or even bodybuilding on the official "sports canada" website from what I could find...
http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/sc/index_e.cfm
they even have a ski jumping federation!
Thats because it's not a sport!
Sorry, you just had to see that coming ;D!
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Well - what the hell are they listed under? Are they even considered "non-profit" by legal definition? I don't see how they could be...
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Well - what the hell are they listed under? Are they even considered "non-profit" by legal definition? I don't see how they could be...
Look under "money laundering"
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Look under "money laundering"
hahahaha.
is the ifbb connected with the mafia?
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If they did register I cannot find it anywhere. Ane their books are public like all the other Charities, etc out there...
Why are they so hard to find in the govt database? Are they in there?
Dan Lurie paid a lawyer to do a record search. Here is the report (http://danlurie.com/DanLurieSearch.pdf). (pdf)
The official name is Federation Internationale Des Culturistes Incorporee
The registration number is 1143385228, formed Dec 30, 1969. Most recent registration March 8, 1995. Current corporate executives are Pamela Kagan, Ben Weider, and Eric Weider.
Founding corporate executives were Ben Weider, Raymond Crepault and Jacqueline Roy
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I was born on Dec. 30
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Chics explanation may be true but it sucks."Can be subject to..." that is bull shit.Why should one bodybuilder be held accountable and others not.That is basicvally what they are saying they "could" do if they wanted.
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For the same reason the NBA, NFL, etc...all do it. They reserve the right to look at things on a case by case basis, as there are different circumstances to every and any situation.
What makes one athelte earn a 2 game suspention and a $5,000 fine, and the other a 20 game suspention $50,000 fine, and others none at all?
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why have guidelines at all then chick?
why not have a one paragraph rulebook saying watch your back because we can fine or suspend you at any time for whatever reason we see fit whilst not fining or suspending others for performing the same or even more morally deplausable acts?
would save some confusion...