Is there anything original in the Jesus story?

[MCWAY]

The original Greek "Iesous" is a manufactured name.

It's a Gematria-coded pseudonym. It was shortened to "Iesus" in Latin when Constantine conflated Jesus and Hesus into one single Mystery Religion godman who would fall within the purview of the Sol Invictus cult (which he was instituting as the new state religion of Rome). Guess how "Hesus" is written in Latin. That's right: "Iesus".

Would you like to know what "Iesous" means? It's not a translation, it is a manufactured stage name for Mystery Religion gods.


The Luke

Jesus' name has ZIP to do with Esus or any other ancient figure, based on any so-called Mystery Religion god. As usual, we have the information, in black-and-white (or, in this case, RED  ) regarding Esus. And, as usual, there's the gigantic gap between your claims and the actual information on the figure.

In other words, like Attis, Osiris, Dionysus, Horus, and all the rest, Esus doesn't match the account of Christ in the slightest, not in form or function or purpose.

[big L dawg]

Secondhand simply means "not direct or immediate". And the simple fact is that the lion's share of information on most ancient figures comes from sources, written centuries after their lifetime.

Again, your utterly pointless and mindless rant is refuted by such examples as Alexander the Great, as most data on him comes from Arrian's "Anabasis of Alexander", written at least TWO CENTURIES after his death.

There is historical information on Jesus Christ, which dates closer to his lifetime than that. But, keeping fooling yourself that you actually have an accurate point to make.

theres plenty of specifics about people/events that have happened just within our lifetime that people cant agree on or know accurate specific details about...

yet you think your second hand times 30 info is dead on accurate...Why? because some preacher told you it went down this way?or oh because the bible tells you so ha ha.utterly naive...

fires,floods,earthquakes,wars were everything was destroyed all have takin care of any original text about any of these fables you so enjoy arguing about.Then you have translation or should I say mistranslation issues.people with agendas that over centuries and millennium have purposely altered events.the list is endless...

over time these story's you cling to have changed so much they are no more accurate than your average Greek mythology tale that has been spun to give week minded people answers to there questions.

sleep well with the naive drivel you subscribe to that does little more than shackle the mind from thinking for yourself.

[MCWAY]

theres plenty of specifics about people/events that have happened just within our lifetime that people cant agree on or know accurate specific details about...

yet you think your second hand times 30 info is dead on accurate...Why? because some preacher told you it went down this way?or oh because the bible tells you so ha ha.utterly naive...

More like utterly DUMB on your part, as I never made such a claim. I've done my own study and personal research into specific issues of Scripture, as others have done.

fires,floods,earthquakes,wars were everything was destroyed all have takin care of any original text about any of these fables you so enjoy arguing about.Then you have translation or should I say mistranslation issues.people with agendas that over centuries and millennium have purposely altered events.the list is endless...

over time these story's you cling to have changed so much they are no more accurate than your average Greek mythology tale that has been spun to give week minded people answers to there questions.

sleep well with the naive drivel you subscribe to that does little more than shackle the mind from thinking for yourself.

Thinking for myself, not only allows me to study the Bible for myself, it allows me to utterly laugh hysterically, when you post such ridiculous knee-jerk foolishness, based on your emotional tirades and whatever personal axe you have to grind with religion.

BTW, before you criticize others about not being able to think for themselves, maybe you should try doing so yourself. Perhaps, it'll help you determine the simple difference between the words "there" and "THEIR", as well as "week" and "WEAK".

These are homonyms that the average grade-school kid should be able to use properly with little problem. But for some reason, you can't quite do that, despite all this ability to supposedly think for yourself.

[big L dawg]

BTW, before you criticize others about not being able to think for themselves, maybe you should try doing so yourself. Perhaps, it'll help you determine the simple difference between the words "there" and "THEIR", as well as "week" and "WEAK".

These are homonyms that the average grade-school kid should be able to use properly with little problem. But for some reason, you can't quite do that, despite all this ability to supposedly think for yourself.

just as I expected deflecting the points and attacking/rediculing people that don't agree with you...typical christian really.

[MCWAY]

just as I expected deflecting the points and attacking/rediculing people that don't agree with you...typical christian really.

You can't even get that right.

One, I didn't deflect the points. I addressed them correctly.

You incorrectly claimed that I can't/don't think for myself and my beliefs are what they are simply because a preacher told me such or just because the Bible says so.

I've refuted your claims, and since I've done so, you've resorted to your usual pointless name-calling, referring to people of faith as "sheep" and claiming that they can't think for themselves.

Typical skeptic really!! When someone cuts through your derogatory rhetoric and get to the meat-and-potatoes (or lack thereof) of your takes, you get all sensitive (can't take what you dish out).

That was the case, when I refuted your statements about historical figures and the secondhand sources, from which we get the bulk of data about them.


After doing that came the whole thing about your apparent inability to string a sentence together or use decent grammar. That merely makes the point that you are hardly in a position to criticize people for lack of being able to think.

[Necrosis]

You can't even get that right.

One, I didn't deflect the points. I addressed them correctly.

You incorrectly claimed that I can't/don't think for myself and my beliefs are what they are simply because a preacher told me such or just because the Bible says so.

I've refuted your claims, and since I've done so, you've resorted to your usual pointless name-calling, referring to people of faith as "sheep" and claiming that they can't think for themselves.

Typical skeptic really!! When someone cuts through your derogatory rhetoric and get to the meat-and-potatoes (or lack thereof) of your takes, you get all sensitive (can't take what you dish out).

you literally beleive in a noahs ark, you literally beleive in a talking snake. You also deny direct evidence based on sound science about the age of the earth and evolution for example, you are deluded. You do not think for yourself, you were indoctrinated no doubt.

[big L dawg]

you literally beleive in a noahs ark, you literally beleive in a talking snake. You also deny direct evidence based on sound science about the age of the earth and evolution for example, you are deluded. You do not think for yourself, you were indoctrinated no doubt.

hit the nail on the head...

[MCWAY]

you literally beleive in a noahs ark, you literally beleive in a talking snake. You also deny direct evidence based on sound science about the age of the earth and evolution for example, you are deluded. You do not think for yourself, you were indoctrinated no doubt.

PLEASE!!! I could say the same for you. You believe life was one big accident, that two rocks happenstantially smashed together, creating some primoridal "goo", which randomly (with no guidance) changed into a zillion other critters, prior to becoming man.

And, when asked about the origin of life, you create more excuses than a Leavenworth inmate.

Of course, when it comes to issues of faith, you and the grammatically-challeged L Dawg keep forgetting that Christians come from all walks of life, including many who did not grow in Christian homes or attended Christian schools. They became believers in their adult life, and some of them were once atheists.

And this runs the gamut, from the everyday working man to scholars and scientists, and everything in between that.

So, the tired canard you continue to spout that anyone who believes in God can't and doesn't think for himself (especially, if he believes in Creation) ranks up there as one of the DUMBEST statements you have ever made.

[MCWAY]

hit the nail on the head...

Not even close!!

As I said before, once I refute one of your silly claims with some actual facts (i.e. countering your rant about second-hand source material, regarding Jesus Christ, by comparing it with that of other historical figures), you get all......sensitive  .

That's to be expected, when your claims are so hollow.

[The Luke]

McWay, you are simply fabricating your own reality.

The fact is that NOTHING; absolutely nothing in the Jesus story is original.


You keep focusing on tiny discrepancies... but never acknowlede the similarities, that's just plain dishonest.


Even the name "Jesus" is a fabricated name... a Gematria-coded password.

Don't you think it strange that Jesus would have the exact same name as a much older Gaullish dying-resurrecting godman (Hesus) who was not only crucified himself for man's sins... but demanded human sacrifices to be similarly crucified and flogged to death?

What are the odds of that?

Seems to me they plagiarised most of the Jesus story and only changed the name just enough that it would have a significant meaning in Greek Gematria.


The Luke

[MCWAY]

McWay, you are simply fabricating your own reality.

The fact is that NOTHING; absolutely nothing in the Jesus story is original.


You keep focusing on tiny discrepancies... but never acknowlede the similarities, that's just plain dishonest.

Even the name "Jesus" is a fabricated name... a Gematria-coded password.

Don't you think it strange that Jesus would have the exact same name as a much older Gaullish dying-resurrecting godman (Hesus) who was not only crucified himself for man's sins... but demanded human sacrifices to be similarly crucified and flogged to death?

What are the odds of that?

Seems to me they plagiarised most of the Jesus story and only changed the name just enough that it would have a significant meaning in Greek Gematria.


The Luke

What you foolishly refer to as "tiny" discrepancies are the very things that crush your claims to powder.

Once again, your whole spiel about the dying-resurrecting godman gets torn apart, because (among other reasons) the figures you mention DO NOT RISE FROM THE DEAD.

Yet, in true cowardly fashion, you continue to run and hide from that fact.

Does Attis rise from the dead? NO!!!

Does Osiris rise from the dead? NO!!!

Does Dionysus rise from the dead? NO!!

Does Adonis rise from the dead? NO!!!

As usual, when your claims about one figure get destroyed, you jump to another one. Now the flavor-of-the-month is this Esus guy.

Guess what....HE DOESN'T RISE from the DEAD, either.

And the list goes on and on and on.......

That's just the resurrection part. Thrown in the method and purpose of their deaths and the virgin-birth items (just to name a few), and your spiel is continually exposed for the crock of slapstick comedy that it is.

And don't bother crying about my using the "Folklore" versions. I've asked you to produce the so-called "mystery religion" versions of these guys FOR NEARLY A YEAR. And you've come up with nothing but excuses and retreats.

[Necrosis]

What you foolishly refer to as "tiny" discrepancies are the very things that crush your claims to powder.

Once again, your whole spiel about the dying-resurrecting godman gets torn apart, because (among other reasons) the figures you mention DO NOT RISE FROM THE DEAD.

Yet, in true cowardly fashion, you continue to run and hide from that fact.

Does Attis rise from the dead? NO!!!

Does Osiris rise from the dead? NO!!!

Does Dionysus rise from the dead? NO!!

Does Adonis rise from the dead? NO!!!

As usual, when your claims about one figure get destroyed, you jump to another one. Now the flavor-of-the-month is this Esus guy.

Guess what....HE DOESN'T RISE from the DEAD, either.

And the list goes on and on and on.......

That's just the resurrection part. Thrown in the method and purpose of their deaths and the virgin-birth items (just to name a few), and your spiel is continually exposed for the crock of slapstick comedy that it is.

And don't bother crying about my using the "Folklore" versions. I've asked you to produce the so-called "mystery religion" versions of these guys FOR NEARLY A YEAR. And you've come up with nothing but excuses and retreats.

even if there are five impossible coincidencies, and 100 discrepencies it isn't looking good for jesus.

the fact that someone else had a virgin birth and died for mans sins equates hugely with jesus.

[loco]

McWay, you are simply fabricating your own reality.

The fact is that NOTHING; absolutely nothing in the Jesus story is original.


You keep focusing on tiny discrepancies... but never acknowlede the similarities, that's just plain dishonest.


Even the name "Jesus" is a fabricated name... a Gematria-coded password.

Don't you think it strange that Jesus would have the exact same name as a much older Gaullish dying-resurrecting godman (Hesus) who was not only crucified himself for man's sins... but demanded human sacrifices to be similarly crucified and flogged to death?

What are the odds of that?

Seems to me they plagiarised most of the Jesus story and only changed the name just enough that it would have a significant meaning in Greek Gematria.


The Luke

Bump for The Luke to answer me.  

1. Jesus Christ's death by crucifixion

2. Jesus Christ's Sermon on the Mount

How were these "lifted from a previous Pagan Mystery Religion"?


Esus(Hesus) did not die by crucifixion.  You made that up.  And the name Jesus has nothing to do with the name Esus.  You made that up too.

[MCWAY]

even if there are five impossible coincidencies, and 100 discrepencies it isn't looking good for jesus.

the fact that someone else had a virgin birth and died for mans sins equates hugely with jesus.

Exactly who had this virgin birth, other than Jesus?

The folks that Luke listed, claiming to have been from such, turn out to be anything but that, once the accounts are examimed.

Again, I've been asking Luke to produce this for almost a year; but he hasn't produced JACK. Loco's been asking him to produce the goods as well.

Every time he can't answer the bell on one figure, he jumps to another.

Luke claims that this is part of some dying-resurrecting godman pattern. Well, if the figures in question don't rise from the dead, Luke is basically left legless.

[Government_Controlled]

even if there are five impossible coincidencies, and 100 discrepencies it isn't looking good for jesus.

the fact that someone else had a virgin birth and died for mans sins equates hugely with jesus.

EVEN IDENTICAL TWINS have multiple similarities, if not EXACT CHARACTERISTICS. Does that mean they are the SAME PERSON? WOW at the tremendous ignorance on this board!. How do you deal with it MCWAY?

[big L dawg]

EVEN IDENTICAL TWINS have multiple similarities, if not EXACT CHARACTERISTICS. Does that mean they are the SAME PERSON? WOW at the tremendous ignorance on this board!. How do you deal with it MCWAY?

but comparing identical twins to the specifics/supposed details of ancient fables isn't ignorant?...oooook then....

[Necrosis]

EVEN IDENTICAL TWINS have multiple similarities, if not EXACT CHARACTERISTICS. Does that mean they are the SAME PERSON? WOW at the tremendous ignorance on this board!. How do you deal with it MCWAY?

non sequitor, but yes, genetical they are identical

you are perhaps referring to the nuturance which allowed paticular genes to be expressed. The argument is not the same for jesus. We can examine in real time twins etc.. we cannot with these stories.

[The Luke]

Does Attis rise from the dead? NO!!!

...actually, yes, Attis does rise from the dead. He's a solar metaphor god (like Jesus).
He is born at the winter solstice (birth of the new sun); dies under a tree or is nailed to a tree (metaphor for the Southern Cross Constellation) is buried in a cave or tomb for three days (the sun sets in the dark void in the Milky Way known as The Cave) then is born again when the day becomes longer than the night (this is Easter: the spring equinox).

ALL the dying resurrecting godmen follow this astrological blueprint: 12 disciples for the 12 zodiac signs (although Heracles/Hercules has 12 labours instead); set-piece miracles; knowing everything at twelve; feeding a multitude; then the escalating magic tricks of healing the lame, healing the blind, then raising the dead, all accompanied by a whore and a motherly virgin who might be the same person.

It's all just astrological metaphor.

We don't have a direct source which explicitly states that Attis rose/rises from the dead, but that's due to two contrivances of circumstance:
-Christians waged a 2,000 year propaganda war burning both books and heretics; especially the gospels of pre-Jesus godmen
-the resurrection is considered a sacred "mystery" among Mystery Religion devotees and as such cannot be openly discussed, only passed on orally as a secret for the initiated

What we do know, is that the followers of Attis held a festival every year at Easter time. On the "Day of Woe" they marched in procession to a sacred grove of pine trees (Christmas trees?) here the high priest would cut down a tree; then carry it back to the temple through the streets on his back.

Once at the temple, the tree would be stood up at the altar. A (usually wooden) statue of the dead Attis would then be hoisted into the tree and nailed to it (through holes in his hands).

Attis' followers would then lock the doors of the temple, and stay inside, fasting and grievng, for thee full days... on the third day the temple doors are flung open in celebration and they take to the streets proclaiming the "Day of Joy", wherein the statue of the living Attis is placed back on the altar.

So, they didn't say it explicitly... but it's pretty obvious. Just too many similarities.

Does Osiris rise from the dead? NO!!!

...actually, yes. Osiris does rise fom the dead. Twice in fact, once in the guise of his son/interchangeable-alter-ego Horus, then again as his "risen" self. It's a whole pagan dichotomy thing.

Don't worry, you'd like Horus... he's just like Jesus.

His magical conception¹ as the only begotten son² of Osiris was anounced to his mother³ Isis-Mary⁴ by an angel⁵. She gave birth to him on the midwinter solstice⁶ in a cave⁷ attended by three⁸ solar deities and his adoptive earth-father Jo-Seph (or Jo-Seb)⁹ who was descended from royalty¹⁰, and presided over by Sirius the brightest star in th sky¹¹... some shephards witnessed his birth too¹². Isis Mary then had to flee with the infant Horus¹³, when the evil tyrant Herut (Herod?)¹⁴ ordered the miracle child murdered¹⁵. We know nothing of what became of Horus till he partakes of a special ritual at age twelve¹⁶ and gained knowledge of all things¹⁷. He disappears again till age 30¹⁸, when he is baptised¹⁹ in the holy river Eridanus²⁰ by Anup the Baptiser²¹... sadly, Anup the Baptiser was later decapitated²². Before beginning his wonders, Horus wandered in the desert²³ of Amenta where he was sorely tempted by the evil deceiver god Set (Satan?)²⁴, but Horus resisted this temptation²⁵. Horus then (supposedly) took twelve companions (disciples) who witnessed him heal the sick²⁵, heal the blind²⁶, cast out demons²⁷, walk on water²⁸ and quell a storm at sea by sheer force of will²⁹.

For his piece de resistence he then raised his murdered father, Osiris, from the dead³⁰... who then became known as Asar, the raised one (Lazarus)³¹, and this miracle occurred in the city of Anu, or Beth Anu in Hebrew (Bethany?). He then gave a sermon on a mount³².

Regarding his death we have two traditions... one that he was stung by a scorpion... and the other that he as crucified³³ alongside two thieves³⁴ and buried in a cave³⁵. He then descended into Hades (Hell?)³⁶ only to return as the risen cruciform version of Horus three days later³⁷... risen cruciform Horus first appeared to women³⁸.

That's  38 coincidences by my count... and that's neglecting the fact that Horus was also known as "The Good Shepherd", the "Lamb of God", the "Bread of Life", the "Son of Man", the "Word", the "Fisher King"... that his symbols were the fish and the zodiac symbol Pisces... and that his title was KRST (Christ) "The Anointed One"... and that his most common iconography is as a child sat on the lap of Isis-Mary, the Virgin.

In fact, I've actually seen an old Egyptian black basalt statue of Isis-Mary, the Virgin, with Horus, the miracle chid, on her lap set up in a monastery in Spain and revered as a sacred statue of Jesus and Mary... funny.

Does Dionysus rise from the dead? NO!!

Does Adonis rise from the dead? NO!!!

...actually, yes. This really isn't open to debate as Early Church Fathers actually conceded this point as early as the forth century.

It's called the "Doctrine of Diabolical Mimicry": the idea that the Jesus story only parallels earlier gods because the Devil made mock versions of the wholly original Jesus story in anticipation of Jesus centuries beforehand merely to discredit the originality of Jesus. Talk about hysterical blindness, this delusional bullshit remains the official Christian counter to these claims of plagiarism to this very day... the Devil made false Jesus' before Jesus, just to discredit Jesus...

"The Devil, whose business is to pervert the truth mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments. He baptises his believers and promises forgiveness of sins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras. Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of resurrection. Let us therefore acknowledge the craftiness of the devil, who copies certain things of those that be Divine".
-Tertullian, (Early Church Father)

"Having heard it proclaimed through the prophets that the Christ was to come and that the ungodly amongst men were to be punished by fire, the wicked spirit (Satan) put forth many to be called Sons of God, under the impression that they would be able to produce in men the idea that the things that were said with regards to Christ were merely marvellous tales, like the things that were said by the poets".
-Justin Martyr, (Early Church Father) Second Century

So right from the very start, even the Christian hierarchy admitted the parallels between Jesus and the Mystery Religion gods. In fact, Justin Martyr actually went so far as to concede every single one of the parallels we have been discussing here:

“And when we say also that… [Jesus] was produced without sexual union, and that He… was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we profess nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.”

“…And if we even affirm that He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you accept of Perseus. And in that we say that He made whole the lame, the paralytic, and those born blind, we seem to say what is very similar to the deeds said to have been done by Aesculapius.”

-Justin Martyr, First Apology, chapters 21-23. (second century)
 
So what are we arguing here? The very first Christians themselves admitted, openly, to their Pagan detractors (such as Celsus), that there is NOTHING SUBSTANTIVELY ORIGINAL IN THE JESUS STORY.

How could it have become original since then?

Bump for The Luke to answer me. 

1. Jesus Christ's death by crucifixion

2. Jesus Christ's Sermon on the Mount

How were these "lifted from a previous Pagan Mystery Religion"?

Esus(Hesus) did not die by crucifixion.  You made that up.  And the name Jesus has nothing to do with the name Esus.  You made that up too.

For points 1 and 2 you can see my response to McWay's hysterics.

If you share McWay's aversion to proper research of the Mystery Religion, you could always just refer to Buddhism... The Sermon on the Mount has long been attributed to paraphrasing from Buddhism, and there is even a weird subculture tradition of Buddhism in which Buddha himself was crucified, yet rose from the dead.

Regarding Hesus/Esus... well I'm afraid you'll have to do a little more research than scanning a single paragraph encyclopedia entry. I know you guys have a list of approved Christian apologist websites and dismiss every other source... but if you want to know, you'll just have to research for yourself.

There's no point in me referring you to some link or source, which you then dismiss as being somehow "discredited". Do your own research, when you've done enough you'll start to agree.

Hesus is crucified... he dies and resurrects at Easter time for the sins of mankind. Just like ALL the Mystery Religion solar godmen (including Jesus). I've actually personally been inside two of these "caves" where a Mystery Religion dying/resurrecting godmen was supposedly born/died/resurrected... one of them 5,500 years old, the other 10,000+ years old.

This shit is old... old... old. Accept it.


The Luke

[Necrosis]

...actually, yes, Attis does rise from the dead. He's a solar metaphor god (like Jesus).
He is born at the winter solstice (birth of the new sun); dies under a tree or is nailed to a tree (metaphor for the Southern Cross Constellation) is buried in a cave or tomb for three days (the sun sets in the dark void in the Milky Way known as The Cave) then is born again when the day becomes longer than the night (this is Easter: the spring equinox).

ALL the dying resurrecting godmen follow this astrological blueprint: 12 disciples for the 12 zodiac signs (although Heracles/Hercules has 12 labours instead); set-piece miracles; knowing everything at twelve; feeding a multitude; then the escalating magic tricks of healing the lame, healing the blind, then raising the dead, all accompanied by a whore and a motherly virgin who might be the same person.

It's all just astrological metaphor.

We don't have a direct source which explicitly states that Attis rose/rises from the dead, but that's due to two contrivances of circumstance:
-Christians waged a 2,000 year propaganda war burning both books and heretics; especially the gospels of pre-Jesus godmen
-the resurrection is considered a sacred "mystery" among Mystery Religion devotees and as such cannot be openly discussed, only passed on orally as a secret for the initiated

What we do know, is that the followers of Attis held a festival every year at Easter time. On the "Day of Woe" they marched in procession to a sacred grove of pine trees (Christmas trees?) here the high priest would cut down a tree; then carry it back to the temple through the streets on his back.

Once at the temple, the tree would be stood up at the altar. A (usually wooden) statue of the dead Attis would then be hoisted into the tree and nailed to it (through holes in his hands).

Attis' followers would then lock the doors of the temple, and stay inside, fasting and grievng, for thee full days... on the third day the temple doors are flung open in celebration and they take to the streets proclaiming the "Day of Joy", wherein the statue of the living Attis is placed back on the altar.

So, they didn't say it explicitly... but it's pretty obvious. Just too many similarities.


...actually, yes. Osiris does rise fom the dead. Twice in fact, once in the guise of his son/interchangeable-alter-ego Horus, then again as his "risen" self. It's a whole pagan dichotomy thing.

Don't worry, you'd like Horus... he's just like Jesus.

His magical conception¹ as the only begotten son² of Osiris was anounced to his mother³ Isis-Mary⁴ by an angel⁵. She gave birth to him on the midwinter solstice⁶ in a cave⁷ attended by three⁸ solar deities and his adoptive earth-father Jo-Seph (or Jo-Seb)⁹ who was descended from royalty¹⁰, and presided over by Sirius the brightest star in th sky¹¹... some shephards witnessed his birth too¹². Isis Mary then had to flee with the infant Horus¹³, when the evil tyrant Herut (Herod?)¹⁴ ordered the miracle child murdered¹⁵. We know nothing of what became of Horus till he partakes of a special ritual at age twelve¹⁶ and gained knowledge of all things¹⁷. He disappears again till age 30¹⁸, when he is baptised¹⁹ in the holy river Eridanus²⁰ by Anup the Baptiser²¹... sadly, Anup the Baptiser was later decapitated²². Before beginning his wonders, Horus wandered in the desert²³ of Amenta where he was sorely tempted by the evil deceiver god Set (Satan?)²⁴, but Horus resisted this temptation²⁵. Horus then (supposedly) took twelve companions (disciples) who witnessed him heal the sick²⁵, heal the blind²⁶, cast out demons²⁷, walk on water²⁸ and quell a storm at sea by sheer force of will²⁹.

For his piece de resistence he then raised his murdered father, Osiris, from the dead³⁰... who then became known as Asar, the raised one (Lazarus)³¹, and this miracle occurred in the city of Anu, or Beth Anu in Hebrew (Bethany?). He then gave a sermon on a mount³².

Regarding his death we have two traditions... one that he was stung by a scorpion... and the other that he as crucified³³ alongside two thieves³⁴ and buried in a cave³⁵. He then descended into Hades (Hell?)³⁶ only to return as the risen cruciform version of Horus three days later³⁷... risen cruciform Horus first appeared to women³⁸.

That's  38 coincidences by my count... and that's neglecting the fact that Horus was also known as "The Good Shepherd", the "Lamb of God", the "Bread of Life", the "Son of Man", the "Word", the "Fisher King"... that his symbols were the fish and the zodiac symbol Pisces... and that his title was KRST (Christ) "The Anointed One"... and that his most common iconography is as a child sat on the lap of Isis-Mary, the Virgin.

In fact, I've actually seen an old Egyptian black basalt statue of Isis-Mary, the Virgin, with Horus, the miracle chid, on her lap set up in a monastery in Spain and revered as a sacred statue of Jesus and Mary... funny.


...actually, yes. This really isn't open to debate as Early Church Fathers actually conceded this point as early as the forth century.

It's called the "Doctrine of Diabolical Mimicry": the idea that the Jesus story only parallels earlier gods because the Devil made mock versions of the wholly original Jesus story in anticipation of Jesus centuries beforehand merely to discredit the originality of Jesus. Talk about hysterical blindness, this delusional bullshit remains the official Christian counter to these claims of plagiarism to this very day... the Devil made false Jesus' before Jesus, just to discredit Jesus...

"The Devil, whose business is to pervert the truth mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments. He baptises his believers and promises forgiveness of sins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras. Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of resurrection. Let us therefore acknowledge the craftiness of the devil, who copies certain things of those that be Divine".
-Tertullian, (Early Church Father)

"Having heard it proclaimed through the prophets that the Christ was to come and that the ungodly amongst men were to be punished by fire, the wicked spirit (Satan) put forth many to be called Sons of God, under the impression that they would be able to produce in men the idea that the things that were said with regards to Christ were merely marvellous tales, like the things that were said by the poets".
-Justin Martyr, (Early Church Father) Second Century

So right from the very start, even the Christian hierarchy admitted the parallels between Jesus and the Mystery Religion gods. In fact, Justin Martyr actually went so far as to concede every single one of the parallels we have been discussing here:

“And when we say also that… [Jesus] was produced without sexual union, and that He… was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we profess nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.”

“…And if we even affirm that He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you accept of Perseus. And in that we say that He made whole the lame, the paralytic, and those born blind, we seem to say what is very similar to the deeds said to have been done by Aesculapius.”

-Justin Martyr, First Apology, chapters 21-23. (second century)
 
So what are we arguing here? The very first Christians themselves admitted, openly, to their Pagan detractors (such as Celsus), that there is NOTHING SUBSTANTIVELY ORIGINAL IN THE JESUS STORY.

How could it have become original since then?


For points 1 and 2 you can see my response to McWay's hysterics.

If you share McWay's aversion to proper research of the Mystery Religion, you could always just refer to Buddhism... The Sermon on the Mount has long been attributed to paraphrasing from Buddhism, and there is even a weird subculture tradition of Buddhism in which Buddha himself was crucified, yet rose from the dead.

Regarding Hesus/Esus... well I'm afraid you'll have to do a little more research than scanning a single paragraph encyclopedia entry. I know you guys have a list of approved Christian apologist websites and dismiss every other source... but if you want to know, you'll just have to research for yourself.

There's no point in me referring you to some link or source, which you then dismiss as being somehow "discredited". Do your own research, when you've done enough you'll start to agree.

Hesus is crucified... he dies and resurrects at Easter time for the sins of mankind. Just like ALL the Mystery Religion solar godmen (including Jesus). I've actually personally been inside two of these "caves" where a Mystery Religion dying/resurrecting godmen was supposedly born/died/resurrected... one of them 5,500 years old, the other 10,000+ years old.

This shit is old... old... old. Accept it.


The Luke

epic destruction

[MCWAY]

...actually, yes, Attis does rise from the dead. He's a solar metaphor god (like Jesus).
He is born at the winter solstice (birth of the new sun); dies under a tree or is nailed to a tree (metaphor for the Southern Cross Constellation) is buried in a cave or tomb for three days (the sun sets in the dark void in the Milky Way known as The Cave) then is born again when the day becomes longer than the night (this is Easter: the spring equinox).

Is that right?

Attis escaped to the mountains, maimed himself, and died besides a pine tree, into which his soul transmigrated, while from his blood sprang violets like a wreath round the tree. The goddess implored Zeus to restore her lover BUT IT WAS NOT TO BE. But so much was granted that his body should never decay, that his hair should always grow, and that his little finger should always move. - Alexandar Murray, "Manual of mythology: Greek and Roman, Norse and Old German, Hindu and Egyptian Mythology"



Resurrection? I DON'T THINK SO!!!

ALL the dying resurrecting godmen follow this astrological blueprint: 12 disciples for the 12 zodiac signs (although Heracles/Hercules has 12 labours instead); set-piece miracles; knowing everything at twelve; feeding a multitude; then the escalating magic tricks of healing the lame, healing the blind, then raising the dead, all accompanied by a whore and a motherly virgin who might be the same person.

It's all just astrological metaphor.

Once again, Attis doesn't match whatsoever (not to mention the lack of those other items listed).

We don't have a direct source which explicitly states that Attis rose/rises from the dead, but that's due to two contrivances of circumstance:
-Christians waged a 2,000 year propaganda war burning both books and heretics; especially the gospels of pre-Jesus godmen
-the resurrection is considered a sacred "mystery" among Mystery Religion devotees and as such cannot be openly discussed, only passed on orally as a secret for the initiated

Correction: We don't have a direct source, BECAUSE THERE IS NO direct source. Attis doesn't rise from the dead, period. You've had a year to produce the goods; yet you've come up with zilch.

What we do know, is that the followers of Attis held a festival every year at Easter time. On the "Day of Woe" they marched in procession to a sacred grove of pine trees (Christmas trees?) here the high priest would cut down a tree; then carry it back to the temple through the streets on his back.

Once at the temple, the tree would be stood up at the altar. A (usually wooden) statue of the dead Attis would then be hoisted into the tree and nailed to it (through holes in his hands).

Attis' followers would then lock the doors of the temple, and stay inside, fasting and grievng, for thee full days... on the third day the temple doors are flung open in celebration and they take to the streets proclaiming the "Day of Joy", wherein the statue of the living Attis is placed back on the altar.

So, they didn't say it explicitly... but it's pretty obvious. Just too many similarities.

PLEASE!!! Attis doesn't die via crucifixion. He cuts his nuts off, which is hardly a match with Jesus Christ. Furthermore, that festival didn't start until WELL AFTER Christianity had already taken off in Jerusalem, perhaps as late as 4th century AD.


The complex mythology of Attis is irrelevant to the question of dying and rising deities. In the Phrygian version, Attis is killed by castration; in the Lydian version, he is killed by a boar. In neither case is there any question of his returning to life. Two late, post-Christian theological reflections on the myth hint at rebirth: the allegory in Naassene Sermon and the "euhemerist" account in Firmacus Maternus (third book of De errore profanarum religionum from the fourth century AD), in which a pretended resurrection is mentioned, although it is doubtful this ever played any part in the actual cult.

The attempts in the earlier scholarly literature to identify Attis as a "dying and rising deity" depend not on the mythology but rather on the ritual of the five-day festival of Cybele on March 22-27. Some scholars saw the "Day of Blood" (March 24) and the "Day of Joy" (March 25) as an analogy of the Christian relationship between Good Friday to Easter Sunday, and reasoned that if there was "mourning" on the first day, the object of the "joy" on the following day must be Attis' "resurrection."  But there is no evidence this is the case. The Day of Joy is a late addition to what was once a three-day ritual in which the Day of Blood was followed by a purificatory ritual and the return of the statue of the goddess to the temple. The Day of Joy in the cult celebrated Cybele, not Attis.

The sole text that connects the Day of Joy with Attis is a fifth-century AD biography of Isidore the Dialectician by the Neoplatonic philosopher Damascius who reports that Isidore once had a dream in which he was Attis and the Day of Joy was celebrated in his honor!

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/JesusEvidenceCrucifiedSaviors.htm#Attis

...actually, yes. Osiris does rise fom the dead. Twice in fact, once in the guise of his son/interchangeable-alter-ego Horus, then again as his "risen" self. It's a whole pagan dichotomy thing.

Don't worry, you'd like Horus... he's just like Jesus.

His magical conception¹ as the only begotten son² of Osiris was anounced to his mother³ Isis-Mary⁴ by an angel⁵. She gave birth to him on the midwinter solstice⁶ in a cave⁷ attended by three⁸ solar deities and his adoptive earth-father Jo-Seph (or Jo-Seb)⁹ who was descended from royalty¹⁰, and presided over by Sirius the brightest star in th sky¹¹... some shephards witnessed his birth too¹². Isis Mary then had to flee with the infant Horus¹³, when the evil tyrant Herut (Herod?)¹⁴ ordered the miracle child murdered¹⁵. We know nothing of what became of Horus till he partakes of a special ritual at age twelve¹⁶ and gained knowledge of all things¹⁷. He disappears again till age 30¹⁸, when he is baptised¹⁹ in the holy river Eridanus²⁰ by Anup the Baptiser²¹... sadly, Anup the Baptiser was later decapitated²². Before beginning his wonders, Horus wandered in the desert²³ of Amenta where he was sorely tempted by the evil deceiver god Set (Satan?)²⁴, but Horus resisted this temptation²⁵. Horus then (supposedly) took twelve companions (disciples) who witnessed him heal the sick²⁵, heal the blind²⁶, cast out demons²⁷, walk on water²⁸ and quell a storm at sea by sheer force of will²⁹.

Now this is comical:

An angel had nothing to do with Horus' birth and, as if that weren't enough, Isis wasn't a virgin. She has SEX with Osiris in the underworld, as has been mentioned NUMEROUS TIMES.

Of the parts of Osiris's body the only one which Isis did not find was the male member, for the reason that this had been at once tossed into the river, and the lepidotus, the sea-bream, and the pike had fed upon it; and it is from these very fishes the Egyptians are most scrupulous in abstaining. But Isis made a replica of the member to take its place, and consecrated the phallus, in honour of which the Egyptians even at the present day celebrate a festival." (Plutarch, Moralia V, On Isis and Osiris, 18) (courtesy of http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/HORUS.htm#SUMMARY)

For his piece de resistence he then raised his murdered father, Osiris, from the dead³⁰... who then became known as Asar, the raised one (Lazarus)³¹, and this miracle occurred in the city of Anu, or Beth Anu in Hebrew (Bethany?). He then gave a sermon on a mount³².

Regarding his death we have two traditions... one that he was stung by a scorpion... and the other that he as crucified³³ alongside two thieves³⁴ and buried in a cave³⁵. He then descended into Hades (Hell?)³⁶ only to return as the risen cruciform version of Horus three days later³⁷... risen cruciform Horus first appeared to women³⁸.

That's  38 coincidences by my count... and that's neglecting the fact that Horus was also known as "The Good Shepherd", the "Lamb of God", the "Bread of Life", the "Son of Man", the "Word", the "Fisher King"... that his symbols were the fish and the zodiac symbol Pisces... and that his title was KRST (Christ) "The Anointed One"... and that his most common iconography is as a child sat on the lap of Isis-Mary, the Virgin.

In fact, I've actually seen an old Egyptian black basalt statue of Isis-Mary, the Virgin, with Horus, the miracle chid, on her lap set up in a monastery in Spain and revered as a sacred statue of Jesus and Mary... funny.

I already exposed that "Isis-Mary" flap of yours to be utterly false. But to reiterate (from the aforementioned site):

Her name was simply Isis (in Greek). Her true Egyptian name is transliterated simply A-s-e-t or 3st (all woman names in Egyptian end with the "t"). Her name (Aset) means "seat" or "throne" (Oxford Encyclopedia, vol 2, "Isis" p. 188) and "the goddess's name is written in hieroglyphs with a sign that represents a throne, indicating the crucial role that she plays in the transmission of the kingship of Egypt" (Hart, Routledge Dictionary, "Isis" p. 80).


And she definitely was not a virgin when she conceived Horus with the revivified Osiris, if these words mean anything: "[Osiris was] revived enough to have an erection and impregnate his wife" (Lesko, p. 162); "After having sexual intercourse..." (Dunand / Zivie-Coche, p. 39); "revivified the sexual member of Osiris and became pregnant by him" (Richard Wilkinson, p. 146); "revive the sexual powers of Osiris" (Pinch, p. 80).

A virgin birth, or more properly, a virginal conception, is by definition non-sexual.


Here is some commentary on the "conception of Horus" from various Egyptian scholars:

"...drawings on contemporary funerary papyri show her as a kite hovering above Osiris, who is revived enough to have an erection and impregnate his wife." (Lesko, Great Goddesses of Egypt, p. 162)

"After having sexual intercourse, in the form of a bird, with the dead god she restored to life, she gave birth to a posthumous son, Horus." (Dunand / Zivie-Coche, Gods and Men in Egypt, p. 39)

"Through her magic Isis revivified the sexual member of Osiris and became pregnant by him, eventually giving birth to their child, Horus." (Richard Wilkinson, Complete gods and goddesses of Ancient Egypt, p. 146)

"Isis already knows that she is destined to bear a child who will be king. In order to bring this about, she has to revive the sexual powers of Osiris, just as the Hand Goddess aroused the penis of the creator to create the first life." (Pinch, Handbook of Egyptian Mythology, p. 80)

In short, this was NO "virgin birth" as is clear also from repeated references to Osiris' "seed." A "miraculous birth" perhaps because it involves a dead and then revived husband, but not a virginal conception (sometimes wrongly called an "immaculate conception" -- that has to do in Catholic theology with Mary's conception without Original Sin, not Jesus' conception) nor a virgin birth as contained in the Bible (cf. Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38).

As if that weren't enough, Osiris REMAINS in the underworld (that means he is still DEAD).

Osiris' rule plays a great role in Egyptian texts. They almost always speak of him as ruler of the realm of the dead, an office he assumed only as a dead god, and almost never about his earthly kingship, which he exercised over gods and men in the world above as successor of Geb. Osiris' reign came to a violent end as he was slain by his brother, Seth. Later Horus avenges his father Osiris' death and succeeds him without completely destroying Seth. Thus did death come into the world, confronting the gods with a great problem. This is the prehistory of which there is no coherent narrative in the Egyptian texts.

...actually, yes. This really isn't open to debate as Early Church Fathers actually conceded this point as early as the forth century.

It's called the "Doctrine of Diabolical Mimicry": the idea that the Jesus story only parallels earlier gods because the Devil made mock versions of the wholly original Jesus story in anticipation of Jesus centuries beforehand merely to discredit the originality of Jesus. Talk about hysterical blindness, this delusional bullshit remains the official Christian counter to these claims of plagiarism to this very day... the Devil made false Jesus' before Jesus, just to discredit Jesus...

"The Devil, whose business is to pervert the truth mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments. He baptises his believers and promises forgiveness of sins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras. Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of resurrection. Let us therefore acknowledge the craftiness of the devil, who copies certain things of those that be Divine".
-Tertullian, (Early Church Father)

"Having heard it proclaimed through the prophets that the Christ was to come and that the ungodly amongst men were to be punished by fire, the wicked spirit (Satan) put forth many to be called Sons of God, under the impression that they would be able to produce in men the idea that the things that were said with regards to Christ were merely marvellous tales, like the things that were said by the poets".
-Justin Martyr, (Early Church Father) Second Century

So right from the very start, even the Christian hierarchy admitted the parallels between Jesus and the Mystery Religion gods. In fact, Justin Martyr actually went so far as to concede every single one of the parallels we have been discussing here:

“And when we say also that… [Jesus] was produced without sexual union, and that He… was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we profess nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.”

“…And if we even affirm that He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you accept of Perseus. And in that we say that He made whole the lame, the paralytic, and those born blind, we seem to say what is very similar to the deeds said to have been done by Aesculapius.”

-Justin Martyr, First Apology, chapters 21-23. (second century)
 
So what are we arguing here? The very first Christians themselves admitted, openly, to their Pagan detractors (such as Celsus), that there is NOTHING SUBSTANTIVELY ORIGINAL IN THE JESUS STORY.

How could it have become original since then?

Because, boy genius, you (or Freke and Gandy) FORGOT to quote the rest of Justin's words. Otherwise that question of yours would be easily answered.

Why don't you try posting the REST of what Justin says about the matter?

“And when we say also that… [Jesus] was produced without sexual union, and that He… was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we profess nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.”

Here's what you left out, Luke:

For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; AEsculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus. For what shall I say of Ariadne, and those who, like her, have been declared to be set among the stars? And what of the emperors who die among yourselves, whom you deem worthy of deification, and in whose behalf you produce some one who swears he has seen the burning Caesar rise to heaven from the funeral pyre? And what kind of deeds are recorded of each of these reputed sons of Jupiter, it is needless to tell to those who already know. This only shall be said, that they are written for the advantage and encouragement of youthful scholars; for all reckon it an honourable thing to imitate the gods. But far be such a thought concerning the gods from every well-conditioned soul, as to believe that Jupiter himself, the governor and creator of all things, was both a parricide and the son of a parricide, and that being overcome by the love of base and shameful pleasures, he came in to Ganymede and those many women whom he had violated and that his sons did like actions. But, as we said above, wicked devils perpetrated these things. And we have learned that those only are deified who have lived near to God in holiness and virtue; and we believe that those who live wickedly and do not repent are punished in everlasting fire.

In other words, Justin states that, based on the action of Zeus/Jupiter and his numerous bastard sons (often produced via rape), they categorically are NOT like Jesus Christ in the least.

Also notice IN BOLD the manners of death, prescribed to all of those figures. Notice what form of death is conspicuously absent.

“…And if we even affirm that He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you accept of Perseus. And in that we say that He made whole the lame, the paralytic, and those born blind, we seem to say what is very similar to the deeds said to have been done by Aesculapius.”


But, check out what it says later.....

"But in no instance, not even in any of those called sons of Jupiter, did they imitate the being crucified; for it was not understood by them, all the things said of it having been put symbolically.”  - Justin Martyr, First Apology 55

HOUSTON!!! We have a problem!! You claim that ALL of those "dying-resurrecting godmen" were crucified, as Christ was. But, if you're trying to claim that Justin is admitting such, you got some 'splaining to do.

For points 1 and 2 you can see my response to McWay's hysterics.

If you share McWay's aversion to proper research of the Mystery Religion, you could always just refer to Buddhism... The Sermon on the Mount has long been attributed to paraphrasing from Buddhism, and there is even a weird subculture tradition of Buddhism in which Buddha himself was crucified, yet rose from the dead.

Regarding Hesus/Esus... well I'm afraid you'll have to do a little more research than scanning a single paragraph encyclopedia entry. I know you guys have a list of approved Christian apologist websites and dismiss every other source... but if you want to know, you'll just have to research for yourself.

There's no point in me referring you to some link or source, which you then dismiss as being somehow "discredited". Do your own research, when you've done enough you'll start to agree.

Hesus is crucified... he dies and resurrects at Easter time for the sins of mankind. Just like ALL the Mystery Religion solar godmen (including Jesus). I've actually personally been inside two of these "caves" where a Mystery Religion dying/resurrecting godmen was supposedly born/died/resurrected... one of them 5,500 years old, the other 10,000+ years old.

This shit is old... old... old. Accept it.


The Luke

Wrong again, Luke!!
But don't take my word for it:



"...it is now held that the majority of the gods so denoted appear to have died but not returned; there is death but no rebirth or resurrection. What evidence was relied on by previous scholarship for the putative resurrection can be shown, it is claimed, to be based on a misinterpretation of the documents, or on late texts from the Christian era (frequently by Christians) which reveal an interpretatio Christiana of another religion's myths and rituals, or a borrowing of the Christian motif, at a late stage, by the religions themselves....While these negative conclusions have not been without challenge by scholars of Late Antiquity [see especially the more recent The Riddle of Resurrection by T.N.D. Mettinger (2001) ]....[they] represent a genuine reversal in scholarly thought. That which was posited as most 'primitive' -- a myth and ritual pattern of 'dying and rising' deities ultimately based on human sacrifice or ritual murder in relation to the fertility of vegetation -- has turned out to be an exceedingly late third or fourth century [AD] development in the myths and rituals of these deities....[scholars] ignoring their own reiterated insistence, when the myth and ritual complex appeared archaic, that analogies do not yield genealogies, they now eagerly assert what they hitherto denied, that the similarities demonstrate that the Mediterranean cults borrowed from the Christian." - J. Z. Smith, "Drudgery Divine"

"It must not be uncritically assumed that the Mysteries always influenced Christianity, for it is not only possible but probable that in certain cases, the influence moved in the opposite direction....Unlike the deities of the Mysteries, who were nebulous figures of an imaginary past, the Divine Being whom the Christian worshiped as Lord was known as a real Person on earth only a short time before the earliest documents of the New Testament were written." - Dr. Bruce Metzger in Ronald T. Nash's, "The Gospel and the Greeks"


You claimed that these figures were crucified, but every source that references these entities, including Justin Martyr, holds that they were NOT crucified. And the other accounts also hold that they DO NOT rise from the dead. Add to that, the lack of a virgin birth and there you have it. Once again, your claim are all fluff and no stuff.

[The Luke]

McWay, are you aware that Scientologists can likewise quote from prepared apologist screeds to defend the divinity of L Ron Hubbard?



The Luke

[MCWAY]

McWay, are you aware that Scientologists can likewise quote from prepared apologist screeds to defend the divinity of L Ron Hubbard?

The Luke

Are you aware that you have YET to address the issues at hand, instead preferring to hide and make excuses?

Your dying-resurrecting godmen flap has been thoroughly dismantled. You claim Attis rose from the dead; HE DOES NOT! You said Osiris rose from the dead; HE DOES NOT! And, the list continues.

You claimed that these figures were crucified. The accounts that mentioned them, INCLUDING THAT of Justin Martyr (whom you used in an attempt to bolster your erroneous claims) say otherwise.

Quit whining about my use of the site and address the substance of the issue. Your claims are old, as are the facts that refute them. So, why re-invent the wheel, when the information that counters your claims is easily accesible?

Unlike you, I actually cite my sources (though one could easily ascertain from where you keep getting this gibberish of yours).

[MCWAY]

The pathetic attempt of trying to make Horus the predecessor for Jesus is LOADED with errors, which exposes the feeble scholarship (or lack thereof) intertwined therein.

His magical conception1 as the only begotten son2 of Osiris was anounced to his mother3 Isis-Mary4 by an angel5. She gave birth to him on the midwinter solstice6 in a cave7 attended by three8 solar deities and his adoptive earth-father Jo-Seph (or Jo-Seb)9 who was descended from royalty10, and presided over by Sirius the brightest star in th sky11... some shephards witnessed his birth too12. Isis Mary then had to flee with the infant Horus13, when the evil tyrant Herut (Herod?)14 ordered the miracle child murdered15. We know nothing of what became of Horus till he partakes of a special ritual at age twelve16 and gained knowledge of all things17. He disappears again till age 3018, when he is baptised19 in the holy river Eridanus20 by Anup the Baptiser21... sadly, Anup the Baptiser was later decapitated22. Before beginning his wonders, Horus wandered in the desert23 of Amenta where he was sorely tempted by the evil deceiver god Set (Satan?)24, but Horus resisted this temptation25. Horus then (supposedly) took twelve companions (disciples) who witnessed him heal the sick25, heal the blind26, cast out demons27, walk on water28 and quell a storm at sea by sheer force of will29.

1) There is no "Mary" or "Meri" on Isis' name.

2) Once again, we see the foolish attempt to make a big deal out of the December 25th date. Nowhere in Scripture is Jesus said to be born on such a date.

3) Still stuck on that wise men thing (Oh, wait!! They're "solar deities", now ) How many times do we go over this? One, with regards to Jesus Christ: They are wise men, exact number UNKNOWN, who do NOT find Jesus at birth but around 2 years later.

4) "We know nothing of what became of Horus till he partakes of a special ritual at age twelve16 and gained knowledge of all things" Fortunately, we DO know what became of Jesus Christ. He and His family went to Jerusalem every year (see Luke 2). Plus, Jesus didn't disappear. He grew up in Nazareth and became a carpenter (see Mark).

5) Anup was hardly a Baptiser. He was an embalmer and and guided souls through the underworld, a FAR CRY from John the Baptist.

6) Horus' alleged disciples were actually followers of his mother, Isis. And there's hardly an affixation of exactly 12 of them.

This is just a small sample of the legions of foul-ups, bleeps, and blunders that your posts contain.

[The Luke]

I've yet to see you concede a single similarity.

I don't see why you can't, the Early Christians did.

I wonder what the non-Christians reading this thread think?



The Luke

[big L dawg]

I've yet to see you concede a single similarity.

I don't see why you can't, the Early Christians did.

I wonder what the non-Christians reading this thread think?



The Luke

I Think he has a legitimate mental disorder.