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Author Topic: Police State - Official Thread  (Read 68106 times)
Agnostic007
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« Reply #1300 on: August 30, 2013, 06:27:36 AM »

Could you offer a short list of examples, 007?

Real World example- Officers were working a disturbance call at a particular apartment complex. As the call was wrapping up the supervisor was leaving and noticed a vehicle pulling into the complex that had pulled out a few minutes before. The Sgt recognizes the driver as he passes him as a career drug dealer who he has arrested on many ocassions. He runs his name throught he MDC and he comes back with warrants. He advises the officers still on scene of this and they make contact with the subject. After speaking with the subject, the story doesn't add up. He says at first he wasn't there before, then he said he was but he came back because he forgot his phone. He had his phone in his hand and had never gone back in his apartment. He was arrested for the warrants and subsequent search of his vehicle revealed several dime bags of pot and a pill bottle of crack rocks. With the history of his drug dealing, going and coming from his residence in a short amount of time, story not adding up and the officers knowledge that cell phones are often used to set up deals the phone was checked which revealed txt messages indicating a drug deal. Subject complained that the phone search was illegal but lost the argument in court.   
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« Reply #1301 on: August 30, 2013, 10:41:27 AM »

Real World example- Officers were working a disturbance call at a particular apartment complex. As the call was wrapping up the supervisor was leaving and noticed a vehicle pulling into the complex that had pulled out a few minutes before. The Sgt recognizes the driver as he passes him as a career drug dealer who he has arrested on many ocassions. He runs his name throught he MDC and he comes back with warrants. He advises the officers still on scene of this and they make contact with the subject. After speaking with the subject, the story doesn't add up. He says at first he wasn't there before, then he said he was but he came back because he forgot his phone. He had his phone in his hand and had never gone back in his apartment. He was arrested for the warrants and subsequent search of his vehicle revealed several dime bags of pot and a pill bottle of crack rocks. With the history of his drug dealing, going and coming from his residence in a short amount of time, story not adding up and the officers knowledge that cell phones are often used to set up deals the phone was checked which revealed txt messages indicating a drug deal. Subject complained that the phone search was illegal but lost the argument in court.    

So a person appears somewhere, the cop already knows his name and presumably some other identifiers, and through such memorized information is able to discover the person has warrants, which leads to a discovery of several dime bags of dope, causing the cop to choose to examine the subject's phone in order to reveal that the individual may have been at that location to sell drugs. Have I missed anything?
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« Reply #1302 on: August 30, 2013, 03:14:59 PM »

So a person appears somewhere, the cop already knows his name and presumably some other identifiers, and through such memorized information is able to discover the person has warrants, which leads to a discovery of several dime bags of dope, causing the cop to choose to examine the subject's phone in order to reveal that the individual may have been at that location to sell drugs. Have I missed anything?

If you are being arrested then all bets are off. The Police can use the "search incident to arrest" exception to search you. Whether that means they can search your digital devices is somewhat nebulous, but they can, in the current environment, do it until the Courts rule on it.
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« Reply #1303 on: August 30, 2013, 03:59:36 PM »

If you are being arrested then all bets are off. The Police can use the "search incident to arrest" exception to search you. Whether that means they can search your digital devices is somewhat nebulous, but they can, in the current environment, do it until the Courts rule on it.

We can figure the person will be arrested for the warrants, and we can figure the person will be charged with an equivalent of drugs-possession with intent to sell, even if he'd never touched a cellphone in his life.

My question for 007 (or anyone that would defend it), regards the benefit of allowing a cop his own authority to search the cellphone. I can understand a very compelling argument against allowing a cop to do so, so I want to hear an argument for allowing the cop to do so.

*This is a question of the cop, and a self-authorized decision to search the device. Not about any other decision by any other person to allow a search.
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« Reply #1304 on: August 30, 2013, 07:51:38 PM »

Where did this happen, 007? (or please link me to a story about it)
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« Reply #1305 on: August 30, 2013, 08:47:18 PM »

So the cops used a search of his phone, to justify a subsequent search of his vehicle (where the drugs were found).

This wasn't a matter of trying to secure additional evidence in relation to a search that had already taken place.
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« Reply #1306 on: September 02, 2013, 07:09:13 AM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/02/us/drug-agents-use-vast-phone-trove-eclipsing-nsas.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&smid=tw-nytimes&partner=rss&emc=rss&


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« Reply #1307 on: September 02, 2013, 07:57:31 AM »

http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/273242/373/Caught-on-cam-DC-Police-boat-smashes-into-two-vessels-in-Georgetown


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« Reply #1308 on: September 02, 2013, 05:37:11 PM »

If you are being arrested then all bets are off. The Police can use the "search incident to arrest" exception to search you. Whether that means they can search your digital devices is somewhat nebulous, but they can, in the current environment, do it until the Courts rule on it.



I'm gonna go with more of where somebody is arrested as I was reading an article where a court in CA toss out the phone search because the police were in no danger and had plenty of time to secure a warrant.  I'm not sure what's up where I'm at in MD/VA.

Agnostic's example is on that line though...as in where to draw it.  The exact same principle could be applicable to a home as I'm sure they've got tons of experience of people dealing drugs from their house.  And I think many of us have a hard time being sympathetic to douchebag with multiple warrants dumb enough to keep passing by a group of cops, lol.

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« Reply #1309 on: September 02, 2013, 07:11:28 PM »

 Angry

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« Reply #1310 on: September 02, 2013, 07:34:37 PM »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/02/annie-dookhan_n_3855803.html

BOSTON -- The state is still reeling a year after a scandal at a drug lab threw the legal system into turmoil: More than 330 prison inmates have been released from custody and at least 1,100 cases have been dismissed or not prosecuted because of tainted evidence and other fallout from the facility's closure.

Annie Dookhan stands accused of faking test results, tampering with evidence and routinely ignoring testing protocols.

With thousands of challenges still making their way through the court system, many in the legal community believe it will be years before the cases handled by Dookhan are cleared.

Just two weeks ago, a lawyer appointed by Gov. Deval Patrick to help create a database of Dookhan's cases said more than 40,000 defendants may have been affected, about 6,000 more than officials first estimated.

"Forget having your day in court, forget having a lawyer it's taken us this long just to get a number on the number of cases that she tested," said Matthew Segal, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts.

"It's been very damaging to the integrity of the justice system," he said.

Dookhan, 35, treasured her reputation as the most productive chemist in the lab and became the go-to person for prosecutors in drug cases.

But now prosecutors believe Dookhan's reputation was based on fraud. She told state police that instead of testing all the substances turned over to the Department of Public Health lab, she sometimes would test only a fraction of them but certify them all as drugs, authorities said. She has pleaded not guilty and her lawyer hasn't responded to repeated requests for comment.

The scandal led to the resignation of the state's public health commissioner, the resignation of a manager at the lab and the firing of another manager.




The effects have reverberated throughout the state.

The state's public defender says the number of affected cases could be even higher because management and protocol lapses at the lab may have allowed other chemists to cut corners or falsify results. Defense attorneys say all test results at the lab over the last decade should be questioned.

In Suffolk County, which includes Boston, 240 defendants have been released by judges who agreed to put their sentences on hold or reduce their bail for pending cases. About 60 of those released have since been arrested on new charges.

In one case, a career criminal and convicted rapist failed to show up for court after his bail was reduced. Marcus Pixley was rearrested two days later, but his case was cited by prosecutors who feared that dangerous criminals would end up back on the streets. Pixley eventually pleaded guilty to a drug distribution charge and was sentenced to a year in county jail.

In Brockton, the dire consequences predicted by prosecutors came true, authorities said, when a man released from prison early killed another man in a fight over drugs and a gun.

Donta Hood, 22, has since pleaded not guilty in the shooting death of Charles Evans, 45. Hood's lawyer said all defendants are entitled to a review of their cases when improprieties or tainted evidence is discovered.

Hood had served about three years of a five-year sentence on a cocaine distribution charge when prosecutors learned that Dookhan testified about drug evidence at his trial. His case was dismissed and he was released. The remaining evidence had been destroyed because Hood had lost all his appeals, said Plymouth District Attorney Tim Cruz.

Evans' mother, Lucille, said her son had been trying to get his life on track after being released from prison in 2010.

"I'm a little disappointed in what happened at the lab and I'm disappointed with the court that let (Hood) walk out," she said. "Maybe he wouldn't be part of killing my son if he had been kept in jail to do his time."

Two other men who were released ended up getting killed in Brockton. Another man whose drug possession case was dismissed was rearrested after authorities say he shot at state police troopers in a gang unit.

"These individuals deal drugs; they protect their turf with weapons. Once they were released, they went right back to what they know best dealing drugs and as a result, we're seeing our violence going up in the city of Brockton," Cruz said.

Some defendants have tried to use their release as a second chance.

Yohan Marquez had served about eight months of a three-year sentence for selling heroin when a judge put his sentence on hold.

Marquez, 36, of Boston, has been out almost a year now but has had trouble finding work. Three weeks ago, he finally landed a job as a prep cook at a Boston restaurant. Less than two weeks later, he was fired.

Marquez said he got a vague response when he asked why, but he believes it's because of the GPS ankle bracelet he wears as a condition of his release, a constant reminder of his criminal record.

Marquez, who had an earlier drug conviction, said he's grateful to be released but disappointed that prosecutors haven't dropped the charges against him because of the accusations against Dookhan.

"I made a mistake. I was paying for my mistake, but you had somebody in the system doing what she was not supposed to do," he said. "That's not my fault."
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« Reply #1311 on: September 03, 2013, 03:45:40 AM »

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« Reply #1312 on: September 03, 2013, 06:20:16 AM »

So the cops used a search of his phone, to justify a subsequent search of his vehicle (where the drugs were found).

This wasn't a matter of trying to secure additional evidence in relation to a search that had already taken place.

No link, Austin Texas.

No, the cop already had the vehicle, didn't use the phone to search it. The cop used the subjects history, vehicle content and current information to link to the phone. Because phones can be wiped remotely, it is a different situation than a house search in that sense. Although exigent circumstances can allow the search of a house if there is reason to believe evidence is being destroyed, for example, a person runs to a bathroom and starts flushing the toilet.   
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« Reply #1313 on: September 03, 2013, 12:26:33 PM »

No link, Austin Texas.

No, the cop already had the vehicle, didn't use the phone to search it. The cop used the subjects history, vehicle content and current information to link to the phone. Because phones can be wiped remotely, it is a different situation than a house search in that sense. Although exigent circumstances can allow the search of a house if there is reason to believe evidence is being destroyed, for example, a person runs to a bathroom and starts flushing the toilet.   

A007, are you aware of any news articles on it, at all?
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« Reply #1314 on: September 03, 2013, 12:31:16 PM »



I'm gonna go with more of where somebody is arrested as I was reading an article where a court in CA toss out the phone search because the police were in no danger and had plenty of time to secure a warrant.  I'm not sure what's up where I'm at in MD/VA.

Agnostic's example is on that line though...as in where to draw it.  The exact same principle could be applicable to a home as I'm sure they've got tons of experience of people dealing drugs from their house.  And I think many of us have a hard time being sympathetic to douchebag with multiple warrants dumb enough to keep passing by a group of cops, lol.



Skip, do you recall any further detail about the story?
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« Reply #1315 on: September 03, 2013, 01:52:01 PM »

A007, are you aware of any news articles on it, at all?

Nope, not newsworthy here..
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« Reply #1316 on: September 03, 2013, 02:03:30 PM »

Just saw a thing in the paper today that ATT is getting paid a bunch of money to give 26 years of phone calls to various government agencies. ..

Pretty incredible.
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« Reply #1317 on: September 03, 2013, 02:30:47 PM »

Nope, not newsworthy here..

So help me out, here, 007. Please give a step-by-step explanation behind the idea that time didn't allow for anything but the cop to self-authorize action.
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« Reply #1318 on: September 03, 2013, 07:32:34 PM »

Skip, do you recall any further detail about the story?


Not that one in particular.  Here's the 1st circuit holding the search unconstitutional barring exigent circumstances.

http://www.cybercrimereview.com/2013/05/1st-circuit-holds-that-cell-phone.html

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« Reply #1319 on: September 05, 2013, 06:07:53 AM »

So help me out, here, 007. Please give a step-by-step explanation behind the idea that time didn't allow for anything but the cop to self-authorize action.

Jack, courts have recognized that phones are easlily wiped of information remotely these days so with that knowledge, it creates exigent circumstances. If there was no chance the information could be tampered with or destroyed, then there would be no exception to the warrant rule.   
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« Reply #1320 on: September 05, 2013, 10:33:07 AM »

Jack, courts have recognized that phones are easlily wiped of information remotely these days so with that knowledge, it creates exigent circumstances. If there was no chance the information could be tampered with or destroyed, then there would be no exception to the warrant rule.   

Please give a step-by-step, 007, at your convenience.
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« Reply #1321 on: September 05, 2013, 10:37:53 AM »


BTW, 007, please give your honest impression of this story, as a cop:

-----------------

Police were selling pot at time of fatal drug bust

Chandler police detectives were selling 500 pounds of marijuana in an operation called a "reversal" when they became the victims of a botched drug rip-off in south Phoenix, according to court records released Friday.

Two defendants in the fatal shooting of Detective Carlos Ledesma, 34, who were identified in the documents as Thadika Singleton and John Howard Webber III, showed police $250,000, demonstrating they had the cash to buy the pot.  They showed the money during a meeting with undercover agents at a fast-food restaurant at 19th Avenue and Broadway Road in Phoenix.

Later, in a parking lot at 19th Avenue and Baseline Road, police showed the suspects a sample of the marijuana as part of arrangements to make the sale later Wednesday afternoon at a house in south Phoenix, according to documents prepared by Phoenix police.

As four undercover detectives and an informant arrived at the house, two officers drove an unmarked vehicle loaded with marijuana into a garage of a house in the 2300 block of West Maldonado Avenue.  Soon, shots rang out inside the house, killing Ledesma and injuring two other detectives.

Chandler and Phoenix police confirmed the scenario as efforts were under way to firm up plans for Ledesma's funeral.

Sgt.  Joe Favazzo, a Chandler police spokesman, said the operation did not involve a traditional exchange where dealers sell drugs to undercover agents.  In this case, the undercover officers had the drugs and the suspects had the cash.

"This is a reversal," he said.  "This is seized evidentiary marijuana."

Neither Favazzo nor his Phoenix police counterpart, Sgt.  Steve Martos, could say why the Chandler detectives were attempting to sell the marijuana to buyers in south Phoenix.

Charles Fulton, 34, owner of the house where the shooting took place, said he knows Singleton, 38, and Webber, 37, from DJ's Gentleman's Club, a strip club Fulton runs on University Drive in Phoenix.

Fulton described Singleton and Webber as "big teddy bears" and doubted either was experienced in drug deals.

"They're not thugs, they're not drug dealers," Fulton said.  "I've never seen them smoke weed or ever get upset."

An Arizona Department of Corrections spokesman said Webber was on parole from a conviction in Kentucky.

Quincy Manning, a manager at the strip club, said Webber was known as "Fat Cat" and also said that he had been released from prison in Kentucky.

A John Webber who was born the same month and year as John Howard Webber had been serving a 15-year sentence at the Eastein Kentucky Correctional Complex for trafficking in marijuana, Kentucky Department of Corrections show.

Manning said he knew Singleton as a master of ceremonies at various hip-hop shows and nightclubs and at such venues as US Airways Center and Celebrity Theatre, in addition to interviewing national hip-hop artists on local radio programs.

"They're good people, or so I thought," Manning said.

The botched drug rip-off on Wednesday evening also left two suspects dead and another hospitalized, while five others were arrested on charges ranging from first-degree murder to possession of marijuana with intent to distribute.

One of the dead was identified Friday as Markiese Royalty.  The second suspect killed in the shootout has not been identified by Phoenix police.

In addition to Singleton and Webber, the suspects in custody were identified as Jerry Cockhearn III, 34; Doarnell Jackson, 35; and Eldridge Gittens, 34.  Royalty was believed to be 26 and Cockhearn's cousin.  Bond was set at $3 million for each suspect.

Jackson, Webber and Cockhearn all have criminal records.

Jackson was accused in December 2001 of forcing his way into his ex-girlfriend's apartment, pointing a handgun at her, and punching and choking her, according to Maricopa County Superior Court records.  He eventually was placed on probation for disorderly conduct after the victim did not cooperate with prosecutors.

When Jackson violated his probation, he served a year in the Arizona Department of Corrections and was released in January 2006.

Cockhearn was placed on probation for four years in 2005 for armed robbery after he and another defendant were accused of pointing at gun at two men in Scottsdale and demanding that they hand over their belongings, according to Superior Court records.
-

From NORML archives.
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« Reply #1322 on: September 05, 2013, 10:46:30 AM »

As a cop, reversals are pretty common though in my experience it is not done at the $250K level all that much around here. Tragic turn of events. Possibly poor planning and certainly underestimating the threat level.

As a citizen, I'd like to see drugs decriminalized   
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« Reply #1323 on: September 05, 2013, 10:51:56 AM »

As a cop, reversals are pretty common though in my experience it is not done at the $250K level all that much around here. Tragic turn of events. Possibly poor planning and certainly underestimating the threat level.

As a citizen, I'd like to see drugs decriminalized   

In your judgment, would a transaction that involved a half-million dollars in value take place without an extensive previous history?
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« Reply #1324 on: September 05, 2013, 05:13:26 PM »

In your judgment, would a transaction that involved a half-million dollars in value take place without an extensive previous history?

$250K is a quarter of a million Tongue
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