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Author Topic: stimulate, dont annihilate!!! key to training success  (Read 14089 times)
johnnynoname
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« Reply #75 on: February 13, 2011, 10:00:56 AM »

this thread makes 10 pages by the end of next week
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YoungBlood
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« Reply #76 on: February 13, 2011, 11:11:22 AM »

I see your point, and as far as my fast reps were concerned, I would venture to say that they weren't incredibly fast reps ie weight throwing, since they were performed within a 6 to 8 rep max context, meaning that they were quite heavy for me. So if one lifts an 6 to 8 rep max til postive failure, then those reps can not be super fast by nature, since one will be lifting a heavyass weight. One thing that could be valid is to do the negative portion of the lift more slowly, and then explode through the positive part? There is a guy called spade121981 on youtube, and he makes some very good points regarding a slow and controlled negative coupled with a fast and explosive positive.

Best thing to do is vary your lifting tempos through a period of time. For 6-10 workouts, do a tempo like 301, and then on the eleventh workout begin another 6-10 workouts (for that muscle to be clear...not 6 workouts total) switching to a 22X tempo. Again, after the workout period is done, switch to another tempo...503 or whatever. Depends on the muscle trained, goals and current programs prescription.

It's usually best if you use a slower negative than a positive, but that does not mean you discount the tempo of the positive being fast all the time. Sometimes it's just good to use a much slower concentric portion to vary the lifting stimulus. This though, is based on specificity of your training goals. A football player that wants to move as much as possible as fast as possible and needs that explosive strength, will find little benefit from doing close grip benches with a tempo of 248. Someone having an issue with getting the bar off his/her chest would benefit from having the 4sec pause though. You will have to decrease weight initially but in the end you will benefit.
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dj181
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« Reply #77 on: February 13, 2011, 12:15:16 PM »

Here is an excellent quote from this spade fella regarding rep speed, "only the negative needs to be a little slow but you always drive the weight up quick. Banging out more reps will allow better receptor upgrade, higher blood volume, which in turn will carry a larger supply of protein and other nutrients to the muscles... hence the reason you see all top pros doing quick reps."
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YoungBlood
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« Reply #78 on: February 13, 2011, 12:20:17 PM »

Here is an excellent quote from this spade fella regarding rep speed, "only the negative needs to be a little slow but you always drive the weight up quick. Banging out more reps will allow better receptor upgrade, higher blood volume, which in turn will carry a larger supply of protein and other nutrients to the muscles... hence the reason you see all top pros doing quick reps."

No idea who the spade fella is that you speak of, is.
You show me a pro that actually trains somewhat correctly and it's not his pharmaceutical programs doing the work, and you will more than likely have fingers left over on your hand from the counting.
I don't care what the pros do. I'm not out to do what they are and their training methods only work for them due and wouldn't work for someone like me. Unless my goal is to be lethargic 24/7.
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local hero
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« Reply #79 on: February 13, 2011, 12:30:20 PM »

Use FullBody workouts only.
Use mostly compound exercises.
Keep the length of each workout within one hour.
Think outside the sets and reps regimen.
Use as strict form as possible.
Positive part of the movement slow/medium speed, eccentric part fast/medium fast without bouncing at the bottom part.
Instead concentrate on feeling the mechanical load on the muscle itself.
Stay just within point of concentric failure.Do not go all out.
Focus on creating deep muscle microtrauma.

Increase the load each and every workout.
Before starting a training period, decondition all muscles as much as possible. Relax, stay in bed.
End the trainingcycle when the progression of the mechanical load becomes too heavy to complete under strict form.
Continue with the maximum weight for continued static stretches under load, for as long as can possibly be endured.

Working out every 36 hours is optimal.
One can train through musclesoreness of previous workout(s) without hindering further muscular hypertrophy.

Do not perform cardio or other physical activities.

Eat each 3 hour period a small balanced meal,high protein, medium fat, medium in slow carb,
Before and after workout, high in fast protein and carb sources.Total daily calories just above maintenance.
Bodybuilding is a longterm commitment in order to get the results desired.




complete rubbish,,, no one who looks any good trains like this
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TEAM NATURAL YATES
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« Reply #80 on: February 13, 2011, 12:47:21 PM »

its all good, your 5'5" ~150lbs and have a right to your opinion  Smiley

Ok , Post comparisions to this:










And if you cannot even beat this then please SHUT your fucking mouth when it comes to training. OK?!?!

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flexingtonsteele
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« Reply #81 on: February 13, 2011, 01:50:54 PM »

Ok , Post comparisions to this:










And if you cannot even beat this then please SHUT your fucking mouth when it comes to training. OK?!?!



Good shoulders Swede.

Keep up the good work brother.
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The Effervescent
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« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2011, 01:51:58 PM »

Ok , Post comparisions to this:










And if you cannot even beat this then please SHUT your fucking mouth when it comes to training. OK?!?!




Hahahahahaahaahhaaaa.... the sad thing is he CAN'T beat that and he's been on the gas for YEARS  Cheesy

Thus proving my point that Genetics rule all

look pretty good swede
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Van_Bilderass
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« Reply #83 on: February 13, 2011, 01:53:39 PM »

I try to help misguided and ignorant people.

And you are beyond help.
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Van_Bilderass
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« Reply #84 on: February 13, 2011, 01:56:13 PM »


Hahahahahaahaahhaaaa.... the sad thing is he CAN'T beat that and he's been on the gas for YEARS  Cheesy

Thus proving my point that Genetics rule all

look pretty good swede

As if little Swede hasn't used hormones ever. Says tbombz has poor steroid response. As opposed to Swede's response which was magnificent - so magnificent he had to buy Accutane off the black market to try to stop the horrible acne.

Ask him to deny it.
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The Effervescent
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« Reply #85 on: February 13, 2011, 01:59:47 PM »

As if little Swede hasn't used hormones ever. Says tbombz has poor steroid response. As opposed to Swede's response which was magnificent - so magnificent he had to buy Accutane off the black market to try to stop the horrible acne.

Ask him to deny it.

Doesn't change the fact that Tbombz comes off like he's a seasoned national competitor when in reality he looks like a soft, stocky guy that uses a little creatine
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spinnis
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« Reply #86 on: February 13, 2011, 02:01:12 PM »

Good shoulders Swede.

Keep up the good work brother.

that was when I was serious about gym training, Now its endurance training from my part so I dont look like that atm in good shape though

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Van_Bilderass
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« Reply #87 on: February 13, 2011, 02:07:09 PM »

Doesn't change the fact that Tbombz comes off like he's a seasoned national competitor when in reality he looks like a soft, stocky guy that uses a little creatine


Haven't seen any good pics of the guy so hard to judge how much real muscle he has.

Maybe he comes off as too cock-sure of stuff. And sure, had he done a show he would most likely have a different perspective of things.

But sometimes even a person with a poor physique can know things, can be right.

Take Basile. Likes to think of himself as an expert while looking like a fat old guy with thick forearms. Like perhaps a manual laborer who never did any gym training. I happen to think he's a fool, but if I agreed that he knew what he talked about I'd look past the physique.

Sometimes people with great physiques know very little about training, and even less how to help someone else, someone with poor genetics.

Judge the info itself, judge it based on what you've seen, experienced, etc.

I myself would take training tips from this guy. And I'm 2-3 times as strong as him, and a lot heavier than he ever was.



* Lyle The Asshole.jpg (85.82 KB, 509x720 - viewed 220 times.)
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The Effervescent
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« Reply #88 on: February 13, 2011, 02:15:13 PM »

Haven't seen any good pics of the guy so hard to judge how much real muscle he has.

Maybe he comes off as too cock-sure of stuff. And sure, had he done a show he would most likely have a different perspective of things.

But sometimes even a person with a poor physique can know things, can be right.

Take Basile. Likes to think of himself as an expert while looking like a fat old guy with thick forearms. Like perhaps a manual laborer who never did any gym training. I happen to think he's a fool, but if I agreed that he knew what he talked about I'd look past the physique.

Sometimes people with great physiques know very little about training, and even less how to help someone else, someone with poor genetics.

Judge the info itself, judge it based on what you've seen, experienced, etc.

I myself would take training tips from this guy. And I'm 2-3 times as strong as him, and a lot heavier than he ever was.



I don't take training tips from anyone, training is simple once you get the general concept down, which you can do in a couple of months if you are not an idiot.

Work hard in the gym, make sure you get enough rest....if you have the genes for it something will happen

end of story
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kiwiol
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« Reply #89 on: February 13, 2011, 02:18:39 PM »

I don't take training tips from anyone, training is simple once you get the general concept down, which you can do in a couple of months if you are not an idiot.

Work hard in the gym, make sure you get enough rest....if you have the genes for it something will happen

end of story

I agree. People who endlessly discuss it and are forever looking for new ways to add muscle or get stronger seldom end up gaining anything.

Anyone who talks too much about getting anything done, for that matter.
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Van_Bilderass
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« Reply #90 on: February 13, 2011, 02:21:11 PM »

I don't take training tips from anyone, training is simple once you get the general concept down, which you can do in a couple of months if you are not an idiot.

Work hard in the gym, make sure you get enough rest....if you have the genes for it something will happen

end of story

You don't need tips on training as you have great genetics and are on drugs. You'll grow doing anything. Cheesy
And it would be a mistake for a natural twink to ask you anything training related. You'd kill his enthusiasm saying, "you've been training for 2 months and nothing's happened... it'll never happen. Go do something else". Cheesy

But yeah, genetics is everything. And if you want to look like a bodybuilder you'll need drugs as well. Twinks such as myself can get pretty strong though, and there's lots of tricks to employ if that's what you want (strength).
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Vince Basile
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« Reply #91 on: February 13, 2011, 02:31:52 PM »

Some people are incapable of adding much size beyond the intermediate stage. I have seen hundreds of these guys over the years. If someone has read the magazines and books about training then they usually have the vocabulary but no clue about who to believe or what to do. These guys haven't paid their dues and are not strong and they are unlikely to ever get big. So they continue to pursue the knowledge that might help them and go from system to system without the experience to help them assess methods and protocols. Some guys do what you tell them but still can't make target muscles grow. These people somehow cheat and don't put enough tension on the muscles they want to grow. There are a lot of these people around.

Groink is completely wrong about training. Some methods work better than others. What is working 'hard'? How much rest is needed? How do you know if you have the genes for large muscles? General bodybuilding is simple but effective sustaining bodybuilding quite another thing. The methods used to get to the intermediate stage might not be sufficient to get past this stage.

I posted on Lyle Macdonald's forum in the past. He refused to debate hypertrophy with me. So what if he is intelligent. He wasn't a bodybuilder of note and never distilled what hypertrophy was all about. It takes experience to know what to do. If you don't get reasonably big and strong you literally won't know what to do or how to assess programs, exercises, protocols, etc. He took up endurance events because he got more success in that endeavour. When you have paid your dues you instantly know when someone is knowledgeable and also who isn't.
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Van_Bilderass
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« Reply #92 on: February 13, 2011, 02:41:04 PM »


I posted on Lyle Macdonald's forum in the past. He refused to debate hypertrophy with me. So what if he is intelligent. He wasn't a bodybuilder of note and never distilled what hypertrophy was all about.


He did distill it. I agree with what he's said, that we know what makes a muscle grow, it's just minutiae and mapping of exact pathways that's left. None of which will really change how we approach training. He debated you plenty, but since you talk in circles and never make a definitive statement it's almost impossible to have any kind of debate.

Reason Lyle never looked like a bb wasn't because he didn't know how to train. He didn't want to take drugs like you did, for whatever reason, and his genetics just suck. Even from that t-shirt pic you can see how horrible his arm muscle insertions are.

Experience is valuable no doubt. But useful info can come from many places. Dan Duchaine pioneered bodybuilding drug use but he never made the drugs work for himself. He looked like shit.
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« Reply #93 on: February 13, 2011, 02:42:11 PM »

hey, if any of you guys are getting good results with what your doing currently. then by all means stick with that. for those of you who have looked the same for the past year or more even though youve been training hard, eating right, juicing(or natural)....    trust me on this one and give it a shot. just for one workout. if you dont notice progress in one workout, drop it. but stick to my advice completely. lift HEAVY. good form. keeps reps low. stay at l;east 2-3 reps shy of failure. the idea here is to stimulate the muscle to grow big. not to break the muscle down.  


it really depresses me that so many of you seemt o think you know everything and yet almost none of you ever make any progress whatsoever. there are guys on this boartd who know a shit ton about training and keep it to themselves because they dont want to have to deal with all this bullshit of trying to convince you guys when they aree only tryingt o help.


btw, olympic weightlifters dont train to fialure.
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« Reply #94 on: February 13, 2011, 02:45:35 PM »

He did distill it. I agree with what he's said, that we know what makes a muscle grow, it's just minutiae and mapping of exact pathways that's left. None of which will really change how we approach training. He debated you plenty, but since you talk in circles and never make a definitive statement it's almost impossible to have any kind of debate.

Reason Lyle never looked like a bb wasn't because he didn't know how to train. He didn't want to take drugs like you did, for whatever reason, and his genetics just suck. Even from that t-shirt pic you can see how horrible his arm muscle insertions are.

Experience is valuable no doubt. But useful info can come from many places. Dan Duchaine pioneered bodybuilding drug use but he never made the drugs work for himself. He looked like shit.

van nothing special happens at failure you know this, youve said it before. but in reality, somethign does happen at failure, and its the opposite of special, its muscle damage and a buildup of lactic acid/other bad shit that interferes with muscle growth, decreases strength, etc.


whats the most important factor for hypertrophy? me and you both know its loa.d going to failure does nothing.  higher reps,pumping the muscle can increase glycogen, etc.

dont get into great bodybuilders who trained pump style. those guys were on boat loads of drugs had great genetics and even still  they may not have lifted heavy, but they had the ability to lift heavy when they wanted to. strong muscle=big muscle.

load=#1 importanmt factor.
2 important factor= frequency, diet,

and ofc ourse results are always much better on hormones
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« Reply #95 on: February 13, 2011, 02:59:48 PM »

What's funny about my own personal case is that I make progress literally in spite of myself due to my own goddamn stuborness. What's funny is that I just know that "the answer" is training with heavier and heavier training loads ie PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD, so I just keep on pressing on towards that goal, and my goddamn stuborness and drive eventually takes me there. And Van makes a very good point. Find someone who has greatly improved a serious weak point of theirs and then ask them how they did it. The gifted guys aren't the ones to ask for training advice, the ones to ask are the ones who overcame their poor genetics.
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« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2011, 03:12:12 PM »

When I began training in 1958 I read that you had to tear muscles down to grow. That is exactly what happens. A certain kind of damage is both desirable and necessary for rapid growth. Lactic acid accumulation is probably part of the process. Ask Larry Scott. What I recommend is to damage the muscle so that you are sore for several days. Retrain the muscle even harder on the 3rd day while still sore. Result is rapid hypertrophy.
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« Reply #97 on: February 13, 2011, 03:48:08 PM »

tbombz you've come a long way from the fat kid on the dirtbike. you've always been honest, even admitting to taking guy's dicks right up your ass . why is it that a guy that never had probs posting his pics and being truthful is so fucking afraid to post pics after all this training and long, long cycle?
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« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2011, 03:52:27 PM »

keep up the good work swede !
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A
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« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2011, 04:08:57 PM »


btw, olympic weightlifters dont train to fialure.

If you don't understand why this one statement destroys your entire argument than there's not much anyone can say at this point.
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