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Author Topic: are deadlifts overrated?  (Read 9327 times)
Hedgehog
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« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2005, 06:15:34 AM »

This is why it's best to do these type of movements every other week instead of every week.

Interesting post DIV.

I believe it's possible to do the compound lifts quite often, if you do a couple of things:

 * drop all disco excersises.
 * lift explosive, all reps with good speed.
 * avoid failure
 * cycle the loads, really heavy loads every 10-21 days.


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« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2005, 06:22:00 AM »

hedgehog, can i squat heavy every week as a natural if i dont do deads?
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« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2005, 06:56:04 AM »

I did squats and deads every week and got waaay bigger. Do them both you pussies
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« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2005, 07:21:12 AM »

i trained for almost 3 years before i started doing deadlifts on a regular basis. they are by far the best overall back builder there is in my opinion. the amount of strain they put on the CNS has alot to do with how heavy you go. i wouldn't max out every week obviously but i usually go as low as 5 reps each week and i have no problems recovering from that. i also agree that doing heavy squats and heavy deads in the same week can wear you down easily. i don't go below 10 reps of squats anymore because i get better results in the 10-20 reps range.


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« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2005, 07:34:55 AM »

My grip is astoundingly feminine, so much so that it gives out way, way before my legs are really being pushed (and I'm not lifting much atall).  Thats even with straps.
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« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2005, 08:48:44 AM »

The problem with deads is that it's impossible to do them without stressing your lower back, especially if you're tall and lanky.

Notice in the pic of how the bar is scraping the guy's shins. To complete the lift, he's gonna have to lean over and put his lower back in a precarious position.


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« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2005, 08:56:20 AM »

Man,

I never have a light day. EVER.  I lift Heavy every single time.   I do Deadlifts and Squats in the same week all the time.


To recover I take 2-4 days off between each workout.   There is no reason to lift light in my opinion.   

Im just telling you what works for me. Also, you gotta keep your calories high enough even on rest days.  4-7000 baby!  haha
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« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2005, 09:21:29 AM »

Man,

I never have a light day. EVER.  I lift Heavy every single time.   I do Deadlifts and Squats in the same week all the time.


To recover I take 2-4 days off between each workout.   There is no reason to lift light in my opinion.   

Im just telling you what works for me. Also, you gotta keep your calories high enough even on rest days.  4-7000 baby!  haha

How much GH?
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« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2005, 09:41:15 AM »

This isn't anything profound, but merely personal experience.


but after years of lifting with the standard back exercises I don't feel as If I really ever developed a a strong thick back. I tried most standard back exercises (excluding Any and all DL's) and saw very little development in my lower back or in the thickness of my back as a whole.

I never really cared about DL's as I couldn't quite pinpoint a "contraction" in a particular muscle group, therefore I saw very little use for DL's. Not to mention I had a bad back and felt that I would be endangering my back by performing DL's.

It wasn't until I completely wrote off Bodybuilding and switched to Powerlifting that I Incorporated DL's into my normal routine.

It was at that time that my back "blew up". almost instantly I saw the thickness in my back develop in a way I had figured would never happen. Aside from that with the added thickness and strength to my back, I have had very minimal back problems, where before it was a problem that contently plagued me and often my workout routines had been adjusted to accommodate.

The irony is this had happened at the point where I no longer cared what my back looked like. But the over all point is Deadlifts did  wonders for me all around and I now feel they are crucial. I cant give you any particular reason aside from mentioning my personal experience.
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« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2005, 10:13:22 AM »

Good feedback in here.
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« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2005, 10:23:52 AM »

Porter Cotrell doesnt do deadlifts, he says "i'm not a powerlifter and they are a dangerous exercise"..You cant deny his results..
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« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2005, 10:52:40 AM »

Porter Cotrell doesnt do deadlifts, he says "i'm not a powerlifter and they are a dangerous exercise"..You cant deny his results..

yOU CANT DENY HIS DRUGS.

Look,

If you are natural you are going to need to do them.  If you are juiced you can easily get by without.

Thats the way i see it.
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« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2005, 11:36:16 AM »

I've done some local powerlifting comps. and I can tell you for a fact that going heavy every week with deads and squats is eventually going to lead to injury or total burnout.  Unless your juicing.  Have you ever heard of deloading?  Most successful powerlifters do that.  I know there are mostly bodybuilder type people on this board, but when your talking about deadlifting heavy every week I dont see how you're going to get anywhere.
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« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2005, 11:40:29 AM »

Deads are good but will not make u asthetic.

They widen ur and waste. Yeah u get big but u get blocky unless u have insane taper to start with.

I dun do em any more.
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« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2005, 12:15:59 PM »

Deads are good but will not make u asthetic.

They widen ur and waste. Yeah u get big but u get blocky unless u have insane taper to start with.

I dun do em any more.
Thats a myth.
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« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2005, 12:37:12 PM »

owner of my gym who has won many titles and looks like a pro never does deadlifts and says they aren't needed and that effective when you can do bent rows,etc

Then he's an idiot. Deadlifts (next to heavy squats) are essential. Nuff said.
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« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2005, 06:42:04 PM »

Interesting post DIV.

I believe it's possible to do the compound lifts quite often, if you do a couple of things:

 * drop all disco excersises.
 * lift explosive, all reps with good speed.
 * avoid failure
 * cycle the loads, really heavy loads every 10-21 days.

There's alot of misinformation and some good information in this thread.....

Zachary, the problem with what you propose is that I go to failure on all reps and sets and I lift heavy, and most of my sets are in the 6 rep range, excluding warmups and maxes.  I only use explosive speed on the positive portions of the reps, conversely I do slow negatives with control thereby getting the best of both worlds but also stressing my CNS twice as much.  That said, I retain alot of strength regardless of whether I lose mass or not.  That's why I could care less about mass, it comes regardless because of the weight I use, it's the strength that matters.....

Strength is the key.






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« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2005, 08:34:41 PM »

It's not an eating thing or an age thing, once you have enough intensity in your lifts it is hard to do both in the same week all the time. I even made my split a 10 day split to keep doing both all the time but it's not the best way to lift in the end and i went back to each BP once a week.

Back workout now is a heavy movement (T-Bar, bent-over etc), a close grip cable movement and thirdly chin-ups or maybe a wide grip cable movement. My back gets worked hard every week and is one of my best BP's. Dead's help get it that way but to take it further i needed to do these exercises.

Even now, after 3 weeks of lifting i take a rest week, i do a lot of higher intensity cardio workouts, 4-5 a week but i can keep doing them, it's the weights i need a rest from and what wears me down physically.

Look just my opinion, i've been lifting 10 years, this is what works for me, not telling others what to do just take advice as it comes.
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« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2005, 11:30:11 PM »

No they aren`t overrated.  Quickest mass builder in my opinion. Especially if you are natural.

You're such a c*nt!!!! Thats like saying "don't bother doing concentration curls unless you take gear coz they won't work" think about what you have written before pressing that post button! that way you can avoid people thinking you are a complete tosser(although I feel it may already be too late Wink)
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« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2005, 11:38:18 PM »

You're such a c*nt!!!! Thats like saying "don't bother doing concentration curls unless you take gear coz they won't work" think about what you have written before pressing that post button! that way you can avoid people thinking you are a complete tosser(although I feel it may already be too late Wink)

gO BACK TO mAYHEM YOU weakling.

Everyone knows I can back up what I say.

What can you do besides being head fluffer for Massive G and company?
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« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2005, 10:17:46 AM »

To be Coleman maybe.

Bob Chick is proof you can still be world class and not do them, and while he is no Coleman he is still doing ok as a pro.


Bob Chick and "world class" in the same sentance.








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« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2005, 10:31:06 AM »

I don't do heavy squats and deads in the same week and that works for me so far.  So on my heavy DL week I'll do leg presses and maybe front squats for legs, and on my heavy squat week I might replace deads with shrugs in my back workout.

I tried doing all the heavy stuff on a week-in, week-out basis and eventually started waking up in the morning feeling like I'd been run over by a truck.  If you're using appreciable poundages in the basic lifts (and not using gear) you've got to pace yourself or it will catch up with you sooner or later.
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« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2005, 11:02:15 AM »

To be Coleman maybe.

Bob Chick is proof you can still be world class and not do them, and while he is no Coleman he is still doing ok as a pro.

So what you're saying is that deadlifts (or very heavy lifting in general) is what separates the good from the elite?

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« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2005, 02:48:08 PM »

Gee gollies, shouldn't this thread be over on the "Training Q & A" forum?

Anyway, no I don't think deadlifts (dl/dls) are overrated!  As a matter-of-fact, IMO the diamond, or hex-bar, dl is arguably the safest and best single muscle mass-building compound exercise in existence!?

The diamond bar allows you to start the dl in a very low top-of-thighs-parallel-to-floor (or even below parallel!) position, and allows you to pull the bar straight-up and back over your heels (a so much safer "bar path" than the straight-bar dl)!!  Why, you can even finish off each rep., in the diamond-bar dl, with an effective shrug!

The diamond bar dl actually allows you to combine practically ALL the benefits of BOTH the straight-bar back squat AND the straight-bar dl movements into a SINGLE highly-effective mass-building compound movement (e.g. arguably better than even the breathing back squat for say high reps)!?

The big danger (of course!) with the straight-bar dl is that one has to invariably round their low back with heavy weights, to a greater extent, when clearing their knees.  As we all should know, legions-upon-legions of weight-trainers have injured their lower backs attemping PR dls, or struggling to complete those "last few reps."!! 

Sure, we all know we should all keep our backs "flat" when we dl, however most of us "slip-up" and round our back for those last few reps., or that PR attempt!  And when we do (or when we set the bar down!), we feel that "uhh-oh!" twinge of pain in our lower back!

Of course, some trainees have "low backs of iron" and never experience lower back problems doing straight-bar dls!  But sadly, most of us find out the hard way (!) that we are not a member of the "low-backs-of-iron" fraternity!!

All I'm saying is that the diamond-bar dl arguably works the muscles of the thighs, glutes, hips, lower back, and traps, more thoroughly (and much more safely!) than either the straight-bar back squat or the straight-bar dl!?  In high-reps., the diamond-bar dl is a great muscle mass, and stamina, builder!!

The diamond-bar dl is certainly a candidate for the title "greatest single compound exercise"...surpassing even the sacrosanct back squat!?  This is because it concurrently works more large muscle groups, and provides greater low back and knee protection, than does the barbell back squat!
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« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2005, 03:18:49 PM »

deadlifts and other power movements are great for adding mass. if its go enough for ronnie its good enough for me
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