Author Topic: Who believes in God?  (Read 52053 times)

King Shizzo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #150 on: June 18, 2012, 11:36:13 AM »
If there is a God, where did he/she come from? Is god some landlord that owns this ant farm we call earth?  Does God have a family? Does God have a dad?  A great grand dad?  Uncles and Cousins?  Is God sitting in the clouds, lol.  Where does God live?  What is there to believe in?  Some man wearing all white with a long white beard?  Some midget?  Maybe some chick?  With magical powers?  Really?  Created earth?  with what?  Where did the materials come from.  Did God magically make earth out of nothing?  In the end what is this world?  What is the purpose?  People are born and die everyday, what's the point of that?  Are we just a science experiment that God created for class?
The way human evolution is heading we are going to be wiped out and dead in the next couple hundred years.
Lol, well if the story is to be believed, Jesus was far from white.  He would probably look more like Bin Laden actually. 

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #151 on: June 18, 2012, 11:54:59 AM »
Lol, well if the story is to be believed, Jesus was far from white.  He would probably look more like Bin Laden actually.  

Religious people talk about God with such certainty that it is absurd.  You ask them any of the questions I mentioned and they scoff at you and then start calling you names to deflect the question.
A lot of these Americans who are such good christians turn to ugly assholes very quickly and are very open to killing.  Funny how in American guns and christianity go hand in hand.

What is there to believe in?  When I hear stories about a girl getting raped by 12 black guys, or I see a 5 year old in a wheel chair with a sever disability it makes my blood boil.  Why would a God allow this to happen? When christians say this is part of a bigger plan.  Bullshit. Let's see how they love this plan when their kid gets gang raped.  I'm pretty sure they'd change their tune.  Then those others say, God gave us free will so it's up to humans to fend for themselves.  If that was so then what is the point of God?  What is the point of worshipping someone who doesn't give a fuck about you?

Why is it that the most religious people are the richest and poorest and the ones in the middle beleive in God the least.  Rich people beleive in God for their riches and the poor believe hoping to be rich.

If there is a god, who's God is it?  Is it the white God?  Jesus?  Really?  What about the Hindus who are before the time of Jesus and their God?  Or the Jews and their God ? So people believe God created earth, created humans and then stood by the side for a few thousand years, then decided to send someone named jesus who was to spread a story that he existed.  Would God really need to send Jesus?  Couldn't he just prove he existed by making it rain glittery thongs?

To the OP.  At least science is open to ideas and discussion and are progressing with thoughts about the earth and existence where religions people are stuck on a book and are not open to any ideas that oppose theirs.

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #152 on: June 18, 2012, 12:20:15 PM »

Man of Steel

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #153 on: June 18, 2012, 01:02:31 PM »
Religious people talk about God with such certainty that it is absurd.  You ask them any of the questions I mentioned and they scoff at you and then start calling you names to deflect the question.
A lot of these Americans who are such good christians turn to ugly assholes very quickly and are very open to killing.  Funny how in American guns and christianity go hand in hand.

What is there to believe in?  When I hear stories about a girl getting raped by 12 black guys, or I see a 5 year old in a wheel chair with a sever disability it makes my blood boil.  Why would a God allow this to happen? When christians say this is part of a bigger plan.  Bullshit. Let's see how they love this plan when their kid gets gang raped.  I'm pretty sure they'd change their tune.  Then those others say, God gave us free will so it's up to humans to fend for themselves.  If that was so then what is the point of God?  What is the point of worshipping someone who doesn't give a fuck about you?

Why is it that the most religious people are the richest and poorest and the ones in the middle beleive in God the least.  Rich people beleive in God for their riches and the poor believe hoping to be rich.

If there is a god, who's God is it?  Is it the white God?  Jesus?  Really?  What about the Hindus who are before the time of Jesus and their God?  Or the Jews and their God ? So people believe God created earth, created humans and then stood by the side for a few thousand years, then decided to send someone named jesus who was to spread a story that he existed.  Would God really need to send Jesus?  Couldn't he just prove he existed by making it rain glittery thongs?

To the OP.  At least science is open to ideas and discussion and are progressing with thoughts about the earth and existence where religions people are stuck on a book and are not open to any ideas that oppose theirs.

Thread now BB relevant.

King Shizzo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #154 on: June 18, 2012, 01:32:48 PM »
Religious people talk about God with such certainty that it is absurd.  You ask them any of the questions I mentioned and they scoff at you and then start calling you names to deflect the question.
A lot of these Americans who are such good christians turn to ugly assholes very quickly and are very open to killing.  Funny how in American guns and christianity go hand in hand.

What is there to believe in?  When I hear stories about a girl getting raped by 12 black guys, or I see a 5 year old in a wheel chair with a sever disability it makes my blood boil.  Why would a God allow this to happen? When christians say this is part of a bigger plan.  Bullshit. Let's see how they love this plan when their kid gets gang raped.  I'm pretty sure they'd change their tune.  Then those others say, God gave us free will so it's up to humans to fend for themselves.  If that was so then what is the point of God?  What is the point of worshipping someone who doesn't give a fuck about you?

Why is it that the most religious people are the richest and poorest and the ones in the middle beleive in God the least.  Rich people beleive in God for their riches and the poor believe hoping to be rich.

If there is a god, who's God is it?  Is it the white God?  Jesus?  Really?  What about the Hindus who are before the time of Jesus and their God?  Or the Jews and their God ? So people believe God created earth, created humans and then stood by the side for a few thousand years, then decided to send someone named jesus who was to spread a story that he existed.  Would God really need to send Jesus?  Couldn't he just prove he existed by making it rain glittery thongs?

To the OP.  At least science is open to ideas and discussion and are progressing with thoughts about the earth and existence where religions people are stuck on a book and are not open to any ideas that oppose theirs.
Raining glittery thongs? That would be all the proof I needed!

daddy8ball

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #155 on: June 18, 2012, 06:41:54 PM »

Finally, it is interesting that you (eminent scientist that you are) come away from quantum mechanics with a religious (supernatural) view. This result is in fact very unusual: physicists -- people who make their living studying this stuff --  are the least religious (defined broadly as a belief in God) people in all of academia, which is already a rather irreligious place. Why do the people who understand the mechanisms of the universe most evince religiosity least? I think I know the best explanation.


Famous Scientists Who Believed in God

Belief in God
Is belief in the existence of God irrational? These days, many famous scientists are also strong proponents of atheism. However, in the past, and even today, many scientists believe that God exists and is responsible for what we see in nature. This is a small sampling of scientists who contributed to the development of modern science while believing in God. Although many people believe in a "God of the gaps", these scientists, and still others alive today, believe because of the evidence.

Rich Deem
Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.
Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity." (Of Atheism)
Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the idea of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo is often remembered for his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church. His controversial work on the solar system was published in 1633. It had no proofs of a sun-centered system (Galileo's telescope discoveries did not indicate a moving earth) and his one "proof" based upon the tides was invalid. It ignored the correct elliptical orbits of planets published twenty five years earlier by Kepler. Since his work finished by putting the Pope's favorite argument in the mouth of the simpleton in the dialogue, the Pope (an old friend of Galileo's) was very offended. After the "trial" and being forbidden to teach the sun-centered system, Galileo did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics. Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, and saw his system as an alternate interpretation of the biblical texts.
Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Descartes was a French mathematician, scientist and philosopher who has been called the father of modern philosophy. His school studies made him dissatisfied with previous philosophy: He had a deep religious faith as a Roman Catholic, which he retained to his dying day, along with a resolute, passionate desire to discover the truth. At the age of 24 he had a dream, and felt the vocational call to seek to bring knowledge together in one system of thought. His system began by asking what could be known if all else were doubted - suggesting the famous "I think therefore I am". Actually, it is often forgotten that the next step for Descartes was to establish the near certainty of the existence of God - for only if God both exists and would not want us to be deceived by our experiences - can we trust our senses and logical thought processes. God is, therefore, central to his whole philosophy. What he really wanted to see was that his philosophy be adopted as standard Roman Catholic teaching. Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) are generally regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Pascal was a French mathematician, physicist, inventor, writer and theologian. In mathematics, he published a treatise on the subject of projective geometry and established the foundation for probability theory. Pascal invented a mechanical calculator, and established the principles of vacuums and the pressure of air. He was raised a Roman Catholic, but in 1654 had a religious vision of God, which turned the direction of his study from science to theology. Pascal began publishing a theological work, Lettres provinciales, in 1656. His most influential theological work, the Pensées ("Thoughts"), was a defense of Christianity, which was published after his death. The most famous concept from Pensées was Pascal's Wager. Pascal's last words were, "May God never abandon me."
Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God was essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."
Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
One of the founders and key early members of the Royal Society, Boyle gave his name to "Boyle's Law" for gases, and also wrote an important work on chemistry. Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, 'for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels...' As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty." Boyle wrote against atheists in his day (the notion that atheism is a modern invention is a myth), and was clearly much more devoutly Christian than the average in his era.
Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.
Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism". He began his research in 1856 (three years before Darwin published his Origin of Species) in the garden of the Monastery in which he was a monk. Mendel was elected Abbot of his Monastery in 1868. His work remained comparatively unknown until the turn of the century, when a new generation of botanists began finding similar results and "rediscovered" him (though their ideas were not identical to his). An interesting point is that the 1860's was notable for formation of the X-Club, which was dedicated to lessening religious influences and propagating an image of "conflict" between science and religion. One sympathizer was Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, whose scientific interest was in genetics (a proponent of eugenics - selective breeding among humans to "improve" the stock). He was writing how the "priestly mind" was not conducive to science while, at around the same time, an Austrian monk was making the breakthrough in genetics. The rediscovery of the work of Mendel came too late to affect Galton's contribution.
William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered many areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities, which recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions." Lord Kelvin was an Old Earth creationist, who estimated the Earth's age to be somewhere between 20 million and 100 million years, with an upper limit at 500 million years based on cooling rates (a low estimate due to his lack of knowledge about radiogenic heating).
Max Planck (1858-1947)
Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncerta
The answer is "yes".

daddy8ball

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #156 on: June 18, 2012, 06:44:33 PM »
And Syntax..I know your next move..

You're gonna say that the people listed were "old school" not versed in modern quantum physics.

Fair point, to be sure.

But also a fair point is that the men listed in my previous post are HEAVYWEIGHTS, and not to be dismissed lightly.

Shit on them as you will. (And I know you will..)
The answer is "yes".

evser

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #157 on: June 18, 2012, 07:14:08 PM »
a lot of them were forced to believe due to the time period/setting they were in. they would have faced hostility had they said they were atheists

daddy8ball

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #158 on: June 18, 2012, 07:16:49 PM »
a lot of them were forced to believe due to the time period/setting they were in. they would have faced hostility had they said they were atheists

Yeah.. Einstein was just freaking out about the American views on atheism.
The answer is "yes".

daddy8ball

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #159 on: June 18, 2012, 07:22:49 PM »
If you don't stop this silliness straight away there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth in your future!!!!

You got better than that Syntax...

That's Yahoo comment fodder you're dishing out....

C'mon man!
The answer is "yes".

daddy8ball

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #160 on: June 18, 2012, 08:11:58 PM »
Zip it you godless liberal hippy cock monger. While you're asking all these questions on your deathbed I'll be readying myself for my 72 virgins in heaven, lol. If you don't repent before the train reaches the next station god will have it in his plan that you get gang raped by 12 black men...in hell, forever. I don't even think there's lube in hell, so get yer bum ready.

oh shit..syntax is drunk...
The answer is "yes".

avxo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #161 on: June 18, 2012, 08:59:42 PM »
Famous Scientists Who Believed in God

First question: And this matters why? Second question: What exactly is it that these famous scientists are purported to believe in?


Belief in God
Is belief in the existence of God irrational?

See above please. Define "God" first, and then we can examine the question of whether believe in it is rational or not.


These days, many famous scientists are also strong proponents of atheism.

OK, and? How is that anymore relevant than the scientists who are strong proponents of theism?


However, in the past, and even today, many scientists believe that God exists and is responsible for what we see in nature.

In the past many scientists also believed that we had four humors (blood, yellow bile, black bile, and phlegm) and that their correct balancing was essential to health...


This is a small sampling of scientists who contributed to the development of modern science while believing in God. Although many people believe in a "God of the gaps", these scientists, and still others alive today, believe because of the evidence.

Evidence of WHAT? I've yet to see a cogent definition God for you or anyone else for that matter.


(... snipped the list ...)

daddy8ball

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #162 on: June 19, 2012, 02:40:52 AM »
First question: And this matters why? Second question: What exactly is it that these famous scientists are purported to believe in?


See above please. Define "God" first, and then we can examine the question of whether believe in it is rational or not.


OK, and? How is that anymore relevant than the scientists who are strong proponents of theism?


In the past many scientists also believed that we had four humors (blood, yellow bile, black bile, and phlegm) and that their correct balancing was essential to health...


Evidence of WHAT? I've yet to see a cogent definition God for you or anyone else for that matter.


(... snipped the list ...)

Guess you're smarter than everybody. You win.
The answer is "yes".

garebear

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #163 on: June 19, 2012, 02:45:25 AM »
.
G

dr.chimps

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #164 on: June 19, 2012, 04:12:43 AM »
Just seems sad to me that in this day and age superstitions like religion are even being debated.

wes

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #165 on: June 19, 2012, 04:15:29 AM »
when i tripped on lsd, i seen god and had a little chat with him.

he was very easygoing guy, like a stoner.

we got along nicely.

wes

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #166 on: June 19, 2012, 04:18:11 AM »
We are golden.
......and we`ve got to get ourselves back to the garden.  ;)

Parker

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #167 on: June 19, 2012, 04:22:36 AM »
Religious people talk about God with such certainty that it is absurd.  You ask them any of the questions I mentioned and they scoff at you and then start calling you names to deflect the question.A lot of these Americans who are such good christians turn to ugly assholes very quickly and are very open to killing.  Funny how in American guns and christianity go hand in hand.


Religious people who don't know what they are talking about or don't give serious thought to what a person is asking, act this way....

syntaxmachine

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #168 on: June 19, 2012, 05:09:03 AM »
Famous Scientists Who Believed in God

Belief in God
Is belief in the existence of God irrational? These days, many famous scientists are also strong proponents of atheism. However, in the past, and even today, many scientists believe that God exists and is responsible for what we see in nature. This is a small sampling of scientists who contributed to the development of modern science while believing in God. Although many people believe in a "God of the gaps", these scientists, and still others alive today, believe because of the evidence.

Rich Deem
Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.
Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity." (Of Atheism)
Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the idea of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo is often remembered for his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church. His controversial work on the solar system was published in 1633. It had no proofs of a sun-centered system (Galileo's telescope discoveries did not indicate a moving earth) and his one "proof" based upon the tides was invalid. It ignored the correct elliptical orbits of planets published twenty five years earlier by Kepler. Since his work finished by putting the Pope's favorite argument in the mouth of the simpleton in the dialogue, the Pope (an old friend of Galileo's) was very offended. After the "trial" and being forbidden to teach the sun-centered system, Galileo did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics. Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, and saw his system as an alternate interpretation of the biblical texts.
Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Descartes was a French mathematician, scientist and philosopher who has been called the father of modern philosophy. His school studies made him dissatisfied with previous philosophy: He had a deep religious faith as a Roman Catholic, which he retained to his dying day, along with a resolute, passionate desire to discover the truth. At the age of 24 he had a dream, and felt the vocational call to seek to bring knowledge together in one system of thought. His system began by asking what could be known if all else were doubted - suggesting the famous "I think therefore I am". Actually, it is often forgotten that the next step for Descartes was to establish the near certainty of the existence of God - for only if God both exists and would not want us to be deceived by our experiences - can we trust our senses and logical thought processes. God is, therefore, central to his whole philosophy. What he really wanted to see was that his philosophy be adopted as standard Roman Catholic teaching. Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) are generally regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Pascal was a French mathematician, physicist, inventor, writer and theologian. In mathematics, he published a treatise on the subject of projective geometry and established the foundation for probability theory. Pascal invented a mechanical calculator, and established the principles of vacuums and the pressure of air. He was raised a Roman Catholic, but in 1654 had a religious vision of God, which turned the direction of his study from science to theology. Pascal began publishing a theological work, Lettres provinciales, in 1656. His most influential theological work, the Pensées ("Thoughts"), was a defense of Christianity, which was published after his death. The most famous concept from Pensées was Pascal's Wager. Pascal's last words were, "May God never abandon me."
Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God was essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."
Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
One of the founders and key early members of the Royal Society, Boyle gave his name to "Boyle's Law" for gases, and also wrote an important work on chemistry. Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, 'for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels...' As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty." Boyle wrote against atheists in his day (the notion that atheism is a modern invention is a myth), and was clearly much more devoutly Christian than the average in his era.
Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.
Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism". He began his research in 1856 (three years before Darwin published his Origin of Species) in the garden of the Monastery in which he was a monk. Mendel was elected Abbot of his Monastery in 1868. His work remained comparatively unknown until the turn of the century, when a new generation of botanists began finding similar results and "rediscovered" him (though their ideas were not identical to his). An interesting point is that the 1860's was notable for formation of the X-Club, which was dedicated to lessening religious influences and propagating an image of "conflict" between science and religion. One sympathizer was Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, whose scientific interest was in genetics (a proponent of eugenics - selective breeding among humans to "improve" the stock). He was writing how the "priestly mind" was not conducive to science while, at around the same time, an Austrian monk was making the breakthrough in genetics. The rediscovery of the work of Mendel came too late to affect Galton's contribution.
William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered many areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities, which recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions." Lord Kelvin was an Old Earth creationist, who estimated the Earth's age to be somewhere between 20 million and 100 million years, with an upper limit at 500 million years based on cooling rates (a low estimate due to his lack of knowledge about radiogenic heating).
Max Planck (1858-1947)
Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncerta

Where is this pasted from? At least paste the entire work next time so that we can evaluate it in full.

In any case, my comments referred only to contemporary physicists, and I think that this is rather clear from the words I chose to use. So, historical figures, however important, have nothing to do with what I've said. They don't at all change the statistical fact I indicated (which is, to be precise, that a little over 1 in 5 physicists accept any notion of God. I for one think this is extremely high, but that is another issue altogether).

Further, this isn't a mere "appeal to popularity," because I am asking us to make an inference to the best explanation: what is the best explanation for why so few physicists -- people who presumably understand universe-wide mechanisms best -- find any notion of God at all convincing?

There are a variety of explanations we can come up with, including some sort of conspiracy involving indoctrination, or, less maliciously, that the emphasis on proffering natural, God-free explanations that is a part of any science helps preclude a belief in God among physicists. But far and above the best explanation, and one I think is pretty easy to glean even from the versions of physics that are popularized for mass consumption, is that the particular way universe-wide mechanisms function provide no reasons whatever for believing in any sort of God.

Dr Dutch

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #169 on: June 19, 2012, 05:37:34 AM »
Famous Scientists Who Believed in God

Belief in God
Is belief in the existence of God irrational? These days, many famous scientists are also strong proponents of atheism. However, in the past, and even today, many scientists believe that God exists and is responsible for what we see in nature. This is a small sampling of scientists who contributed to the development of modern science while believing in God. Although many people believe in a "God of the gaps", these scientists, and still others alive today, believe because of the evidence.

Rich Deem
Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.
Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity." (Of Atheism)
Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the idea of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo is often remembered for his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church. His controversial work on the solar system was published in 1633. It had no proofs of a sun-centered system (Galileo's telescope discoveries did not indicate a moving earth) and his one "proof" based upon the tides was invalid. It ignored the correct elliptical orbits of planets published twenty five years earlier by Kepler. Since his work finished by putting the Pope's favorite argument in the mouth of the simpleton in the dialogue, the Pope (an old friend of Galileo's) was very offended. After the "trial" and being forbidden to teach the sun-centered system, Galileo did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics. Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, and saw his system as an alternate interpretation of the biblical texts.
Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Descartes was a French mathematician, scientist and philosopher who has been called the father of modern philosophy. His school studies made him dissatisfied with previous philosophy: He had a deep religious faith as a Roman Catholic, which he retained to his dying day, along with a resolute, passionate desire to discover the truth. At the age of 24 he had a dream, and felt the vocational call to seek to bring knowledge together in one system of thought. His system began by asking what could be known if all else were doubted - suggesting the famous "I think therefore I am". Actually, it is often forgotten that the next step for Descartes was to establish the near certainty of the existence of God - for only if God both exists and would not want us to be deceived by our experiences - can we trust our senses and logical thought processes. God is, therefore, central to his whole philosophy. What he really wanted to see was that his philosophy be adopted as standard Roman Catholic teaching. Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) are generally regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Pascal was a French mathematician, physicist, inventor, writer and theologian. In mathematics, he published a treatise on the subject of projective geometry and established the foundation for probability theory. Pascal invented a mechanical calculator, and established the principles of vacuums and the pressure of air. He was raised a Roman Catholic, but in 1654 had a religious vision of God, which turned the direction of his study from science to theology. Pascal began publishing a theological work, Lettres provinciales, in 1656. His most influential theological work, the Pensées ("Thoughts"), was a defense of Christianity, which was published after his death. The most famous concept from Pensées was Pascal's Wager. Pascal's last words were, "May God never abandon me."
Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God was essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."
Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
One of the founders and key early members of the Royal Society, Boyle gave his name to "Boyle's Law" for gases, and also wrote an important work on chemistry. Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, 'for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels...' As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty." Boyle wrote against atheists in his day (the notion that atheism is a modern invention is a myth), and was clearly much more devoutly Christian than the average in his era.
Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.
Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism". He began his research in 1856 (three years before Darwin published his Origin of Species) in the garden of the Monastery in which he was a monk. Mendel was elected Abbot of his Monastery in 1868. His work remained comparatively unknown until the turn of the century, when a new generation of botanists began finding similar results and "rediscovered" him (though their ideas were not identical to his). An interesting point is that the 1860's was notable for formation of the X-Club, which was dedicated to lessening religious influences and propagating an image of "conflict" between science and religion. One sympathizer was Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, whose scientific interest was in genetics (a proponent of eugenics - selective breeding among humans to "improve" the stock). He was writing how the "priestly mind" was not conducive to science while, at around the same time, an Austrian monk was making the breakthrough in genetics. The rediscovery of the work of Mendel came too late to affect Galton's contribution.
William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered many areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities, which recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions." Lord Kelvin was an Old Earth creationist, who estimated the Earth's age to be somewhere between 20 million and 100 million years, with an upper limit at 500 million years based on cooling rates (a low estimate due to his lack of knowledge about radiogenic heating).
Max Planck (1858-1947)
Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncerta
Oh yeah, and what happened to all of them ?   ...they are dead!!   hah !

orion

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #170 on: June 19, 2012, 06:46:04 AM »
......and we`ve got to get ourselves back to the garden.  ;)

A wayback playback...

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #171 on: June 19, 2012, 10:05:33 AM »
I believe in God.

Man of Steel

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #172 on: June 19, 2012, 11:54:59 AM »
I believe in God.

I just checked and I still believe in God.

avxo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #173 on: June 19, 2012, 12:30:15 PM »
I believe in God.

What is it, exactly, that you believe in? In other words, can you provide a rational, consistent definition of God for us?

King Shizzo

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Re: Who believes in God?
« Reply #174 on: June 19, 2012, 12:35:24 PM »
I just checked and I still believe in God.
Somewhere in the back of your mind, you have doubts.  Everyone does.  Even the most devout.