Author Topic: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit  (Read 25129 times)

Man of Steel

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #100 on: December 27, 2012, 12:00:06 PM »
Because they knew he was the messiah and the followed the law as Jesus commanded and did as well.

So they claimed him as messiah or their savior or redeemer?  What did they believe Christ was redeeming them from and how would Christ accomplish his act of redemption?

Also, did these groups of early Christians that denied Christ's divinity and the trinity have a specific group or order name(s)?

TrueBB93

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #101 on: December 27, 2012, 12:06:48 PM »
There are a few things people must understand before hand to understand the whole picture

the Word ALLAH means GOD. Many people think it means somthing else, its simply not true. when a Muslim person say "ya allah" it means "oh god". Only with this in mind can you move on to understand the rest. Allah simply means GOD.

I assume you guys havent read the Bibile in its orginal language? If you have you would see JESUS refers to GOD as ALLAH(in a slighty diffrent way of pronoucation, hence why I also post the video of the jewish guy explaining what ALLAH means.)  

I have to go but will be back to explain more, but i would suggest watching this.



the word MUSLIM means subbmission to GOD, thats all it means, One who submits to GOD

TrueBB93

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #102 on: December 27, 2012, 12:18:58 PM »


Listen to what this guy says. he says the prostration is fom early chrsitan practices

loco

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #103 on: December 27, 2012, 12:29:38 PM »
TrueBB93, do you have anything to offer like your own ideas, beliefs, studies, etc., or do you just post videos?  Is your knowledge and belief based on YouTube?

As you can see by all the Bible verses that I posted, your video above lied about "the original christians DIDNT SAY JESUS DIED FOR THIER SINS!"

Don't believe everything you see on YouTube.

a_ahmed

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #104 on: December 27, 2012, 12:35:40 PM »
According to churches that consider ecumenical council decisions final, trinitarianism was infallibly defined at the First Ecumenical Council (the Council of Nicaea) in 325 A.D.

^^ Davis, SJ, Leo Donald (1990). The First Seven Ecumenical Councils (325-787): Their History and Theology (Theology and Life Series 21). Collegeville, MN: Michael Glazier/Liturgical Press. p. 68. ISBN 978-0-8146-5616-7.

Church and state in Europe suppressed nontrinitarian belief as heresy from the 4th to 18th century.

The early Christians had no idea what you guys are ranting on about. They worshiped God alone, they followed Jesus (pbuh). The trinity is a later invention and all the other doctrines you are  trying to propagate that justify to you the worship of a man.

loco

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #105 on: December 27, 2012, 12:39:34 PM »
According to churches that consider ecumenical council decisions final, trinitarianism was infallibly defined at the First Ecumenical Council (the Council of Nicaea) in 325 A.D.

^^ Davis, SJ, Leo Donald (1990). The First Seven Ecumenical Councils (325-787): Their History and Theology (Theology and Life Series 21). Collegeville, MN: Michael Glazier/Liturgical Press. p. 68. ISBN 978-0-8146-5616-7.

Church and state in Europe suppressed nontrinitarian belief as heresy from the 4th to 18th century.

The early Christians had no idea what you guys are ranting on about. They worshiped God alone, they followed Jesus (pbuh). The trinity is a later invention and all the other doctrines you are  trying to propagate that justify to you the worship of a man.

Who cares about these councils?  How about addressing all of the Bible passages that I have posted, that support the Trinity and where Jesus claims to be God? 

Man of Steel

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #106 on: December 27, 2012, 12:56:59 PM »
There are a few things people must understand before hand to understand the whole picture

the Word ALLAH means GOD. Many people think it means somthing else, its simply not true. when a Muslim person say "ya allah" it means "oh god". Only with this in mind can you move on to understand the rest. Allah simply means GOD.

I assume you guys havent read the Bibile in its orginal language? If you have you would see JESUS refers to GOD as ALLAH(in a slighty diffrent way of pronoucation, hence why I also post the video of the jewish guy explaining what ALLAH means.) 

I have to go but will be back to explain more, but i would suggest watching this.



the word MUSLIM means subbmission to GOD, thats all it means, One who submits to GOD

I find it interesting that NT scripture has no mention of Christ speaking as a newborn....pretty fantastic event noted in the Quran; yet, no mention whatsoever in the bible.


Man of Steel

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #107 on: December 27, 2012, 01:04:02 PM »


Listen to what this guy says. he says the prostration is fom early chrsitan practices

Within biblical scripture we find descriptions of folks kneeling, standing with hands lifted, standing without hands lifted, bowing and prostrating themselves in prayer.  Those prostrating themselves such as Abraham, Job and even Christ were doing so under extreme stress.  Christ fell prostrate in the garden due to the weight of mankind's sin upon him.  Nowhere in biblical scripture are believers commanded to remain prostrate or in any specific position while in prayer.  I see no problem in the act of prostration in prayer, but it's not commanded.  Many times I've taken a knee(s) in prayer or have had hands held high or been bent over in prayer. 

What of those believers unable to prostrate themselves in prayer, but pray earnestly nonetheless.  Are their prayers not truly prayers because of their inability to prostrate themselves?  Are honesty, humility and content less important than remaining prostrate?   

Man of Steel

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #108 on: December 27, 2012, 01:09:14 PM »
Matthew 1:21
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 11:50-52
50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”
51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation,
52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one.

Romans 4:25
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

A few more:

John 10:31-33
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”  33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

John 10:25-30
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”



Man of Steel

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #109 on: December 27, 2012, 01:18:53 PM »
According to churches that consider ecumenical council decisions final, trinitarianism was infallibly defined at the First Ecumenical Council (the Council of Nicaea) in 325 A.D.

^^ Davis, SJ, Leo Donald (1990). The First Seven Ecumenical Councils (325-787): Their History and Theology (Theology and Life Series 21). Collegeville, MN: Michael Glazier/Liturgical Press. p. 68. ISBN 978-0-8146-5616-7.

Church and state in Europe suppressed nontrinitarian belief as heresy from the 4th to 18th century.

The early Christians had no idea what you guys are ranting on about. They worshiped God alone, they followed Jesus (pbuh). The trinity is a later invention and all the other doctrines you are  trying to propagate that justify to you the worship of a man.

The early Christians were men and women such as Mary, Peter, James, Paul, Timothy, John, etc....these folks lived with and experienced the risen Christ for themselves.   3rd century councils with their own agenda do not represent the majority of Christians then or today....neither do today's Unitarians so often referred to.  They are fringe groups like the Carpocratians, Ebionites or Basilideans that simply do not represent Christ or the whole of his church.  

TrueBB93

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #110 on: December 27, 2012, 01:22:24 PM »
Within biblical scripture we find descriptions of folks kneeling, standing with hands lifted, standing without hands lifted, bowing and prostrating themselves in prayer.  Those prostrating themselves such as Abraham, Job and even Christ were doing so under extreme stress.  Christ fell prostrate in the garden due to the weight of mankind's sin upon him.  Nowhere in biblical scripture are believers commanded to remain prostrate or in any specific position while in prayer.  I see no problem in the act of prostration in prayer, but it's not commanded.  Many times I've taken a knee(s) in prayer or have had hands held high or been bent over in prayer. 

What of those believers unable to prostrate themselves in prayer, but pray earnestly nonetheless.  Are their prayers not truly prayers because of their inability to prostrate themselves?  Are honesty, humility and content less important than remaining prostrate?   

In Prayer honestly and sincerity is first, without with there is no prayer. 2nd prostrating is the most imporant part of prayer and the action which brings one closest to God, now if a man cannot prostrate he should do what he can, . if your healthy do the full prayer, if injured or sick do as much as you can sitting down or lying down, if completely unable to move, then move your eyes up and down.  do what ever you can. prostration is very important.

TrueBB93

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #111 on: December 27, 2012, 01:25:51 PM »
man of steel i have a question,Do you know why Jesus(pbuh) was put upon the cross?

TrueBB93

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #112 on: December 27, 2012, 01:29:27 PM »


3:39-4:47(go to 6:00 if you got the time)

take a look bro.

Man of Steel

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #113 on: December 27, 2012, 01:34:12 PM »
In Prayer honestly and sincerity is first, without with there is no prayer. 2nd prostrating is the most imporant part of prayer and the action which brings one closest to God, now if a man cannot prostrate he should do what he can, . if your healthy do the full prayer, if injured or sick do as much as you can sitting down or lying down, if completely unable to move, then move your eyes up and down.  do what ever you can. prostration is very important.

Prostration is an element of prayer in Islam, but it is not a commandment in biblical scripture.  The content of prayer is specified in scripture, but specific body positioning or gyrations are a man made convention most specifically attributed to Islam.  The description of early Jews and Christians falling prostrate in prayer was due to extreme stress or being overcome by the presence of God....it wasn't a divine mandate. 

Man of Steel

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #114 on: December 27, 2012, 01:36:37 PM »


3:39-4:47(go to 6:00 if you got the time)

take a look bro.

Yes, I'm completely aware of Islam's position on the apostle Paul's "pagan ministry" and the denial of his revelation from Christ.

TrueBB93

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #115 on: December 27, 2012, 01:38:55 PM »
Prostration is an element of prayer in Islam, but it is not a commandment in biblical scripture.  The content of prayer is specified in scripture, but specific body positioning or gyrations are a man made convention most specifically attributed to Islam.  The description of early Jews and Christians falling prostrate in prayer was due to extreme stress or being overcome by the presence of God....it wasn't a divine mandate.  

but its like this man, the Jews were commanded to do it, muslims are commanded to do it. Chrisitans believe in Moses right? how how does the act of prostration dissapear?

Jews=prostrate
early follows of jesus=prostrate
modern christians=dont
muslims=prostrate

these religions all come from the same origin right? how did prostration become lost? also why are their so many diffrent versions of the bible? the true word of God dosent have versions I am i right?


my point is Paul came in and changed things. many things modern christians do is becuase of none-other then Paul, Jesus himself never said to do it, or other things Jesus said Do it but modern christians dont becuase of changes that happend overtime.


TrueBB93

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #116 on: December 27, 2012, 01:41:28 PM »
by the way i just wanted to say im glad we can have a respectful civil disscussion bro  :)

Man of Steel

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #117 on: December 27, 2012, 01:42:48 PM »
man of steel i have a question,Do you know why Jesus(pbuh) was put upon the cross?
Christ's crucifixion was outlined in OT prophecy (his death was of divine origin), the Sanhedrin claimed Christ broke Mosaic law, the Sanhedrin was afraid Christ was creating an uprising in the surrounding community (and were limiting their authority), the Sanhedrin was upset because Christ claimed to be God (blasphemy in essence). 

Man of Steel

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #118 on: December 27, 2012, 01:50:37 PM »
but its like this man, the Jews were commanded to do it, muslims are commanded to do it. Chrisitans believe in Moses right? how how does the act of prostration dissapear?

Jews=prostrate
early follows of jesus=prostrate
modern christians=dont
muslims=prostrate

these religions all come from the same origin right? how did prostration become lost? also why are their so many diffrent versions of the bible? the true word of God dosent have versions I am i right?


my point is Paul came in and changed things. many things modern christians do is becuase of none-other then Paul, Jesus himself never said to do it, or other things Jesus said Do it but modern christians dont becuase of changes that happend overtime.



I hear you, I really do.  Again, I find nothing wrong whatsoever with prostration in prayer, but the fact remains that there is no specific biblical scripture or divine commandment that I know of that requires prostration or specific bodily gyrations while in prayer.  The jews may have prostrated themselves (and Islam since adopted that practice), but that desire to do so was based on their man made practices and not something outlined by God.  

Paul discussed lifting hands in prayer, but he did not do away with the divine commandment to prostrate oneself because that commandment did not exist....it's a man made convention.  A respectful convention, but not a requirement.  Scripture discusses the appropriate content of prayer, not body positioning.

Man of Steel

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #119 on: December 27, 2012, 01:53:44 PM »
by the way i just wanted to say im glad we can have a respectful civil disscussion bro  :)

It's all good, I don't hate my Muslim brothers and sisters LOL!   ;)

OTHstrong

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #120 on: December 27, 2012, 03:41:08 PM »
man of steel i have a question,Do you know why Jesus(pbuh) was put upon the cross?
Yes, to die for our sins  ;) 8)

How dare you guys battle it out without me ;D

Hey MOS get me in this fight, lol  :D

Stefano

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #121 on: December 27, 2012, 04:25:29 PM »
Very nice. The boards been cleaned up. All the rubbish threads removed. Good job mods.

Keep it respectful and sensible without this " my religion is better than yours"  crap.


a_ahmed

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #122 on: December 27, 2012, 04:28:14 PM »
Is this some kind of joke? You deleted the threads which were islamic lectures to teach people about islam.

Stefano

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #123 on: December 27, 2012, 04:44:14 PM »
Anyone who wants to find out about other religions can do their own research.

 This is a discussion forum not video viewing site.  

 Videos don't always present the truth since the poster can selectively choose videos that represent HIS point of view which may not be THE truth but rather HIS interpretation of what the truth is.

Man of Steel

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Re: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit
« Reply #124 on: December 27, 2012, 04:47:14 PM »
Is this some kind of joke? You deleted the threads which were islamic lectures to teach people about islam.

Not a thing has been deleted by me.   Educational videos on Islam were merged and stickied...did you a favor actually....now they are more visible....you're welcome.   Some video threads that had pages of discussion were left untouched (ex: the converts to Islam video thread).  All other non video, Islam related threads were left untouched.