How to get contest shredded for anyone - discussion

[ukjeff]

Unlimited foods from "protein only sources" + low carbs (green veg allowed) and 20-40 grams of healthy fats will get anyone into single digits.

Unlimited foods from "protein only sources" + No carbs (green veg and others allowed)+ 20-40 grams of healthy fats will get you to contest bodyfat levels.

On second thoughts, I might give this a go. 

[Conker]

lolAnd thats a bad thing?

Of course it's not, it was a compliment! However being a bit of a gaylord....  

[Nomad]

I don't believe that, you can if you want, I know 99% of people believe that but I certainly do not.

Let's be practical here. 3 lb of chicken breast is 1300 calories, I really do not recommand you eat more protein then this, but in the few cases I have seen where people do eat more protein then this like myself there is no difference in the pace I lose fat at. I eat up to 5 lb of chicken breast daily leading up to contest shape and drop fat at 4lb per week and I have tried to eat protein from morning to night daily in enormous amounts and still drop fat incredibly fast. Without the carbs the fat is coming off regardless of the amount of "protein only" you try to eat because your body simply can not eat enormous amounts of protein daily, not caloric wise.

5 pounds of chicken breast 2200 calories

150 boiled egg whites 2200 calories

You can eat more protein daily then this^^^? WOW you guys are truly amazing,  Come on now gentleman stop playing stupid here.

Dude,..I just ate a 0.80 lb ribeye after shooting some ghrp6 and I already feel full. Have no idea how people would chow down 2lbs of chicken or meat a day.

[ukjeff]

Dude,..I just ate a 0.80 lb ribeye after shooting some ghrp6 and I already feel full. Have no idea how people would chow down 2lbs of chicken or meat a day.

Dude, thats why it works, you cant eat enough food and starve the fat/muscle off.

[ukjeff]

However being a bit of a gaylord.

[Bobby]

Dude, thats why it works, you cant eat enough food and starve the fat/muscle off.

what approach did u use for the contest the pics are from?

[ukjeff]

Moderate carbs and protein and low fat.
I dieted for 10 weeks, I only ever went 10lbs over my contest weight offseason

[syntaxmachine]

Ill just leave this here for you and anybody else

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/comparing-the-diets-part-1.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/comparing-the-diets-part-2.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/comparing-the-diets-part-3.html

The only reason why you feel like keto works is because it is a high protein diet (positive nitrogen balance) and protein satiation vs caloric content.  Ketosis has no inherent advantage.

Nothing in the series posted contradicts the research out there indicating that low carb/ketogenic diets strip fat and preserve muscle better than other diets on a short-term basis, the subject of this thread. Nor does any of it contradict the notion that ketosis has inherent advantages; Lyle's chart in the final post of the series indicates that keto diets (he outlines three types) are superior to other diets (high carb, low fat and mod carb, mod fat) for people who are carb addicts and who have stubborn fat deposits. Lyle's point is that despite each diet having inherent advantages, neither is the "best" independent of context.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/comparing-the-diets-part-4.html

Also, I'm not sure how you could possibly stipulate from your chair over there what criteria I used to determine whether keto was effective or not. The fact is, I used specific subjective (satiety, energy levels, performance on certain cognitive tasks -- tasks I do all the time so I can tell the difference between diets) and objective measures (weight lost, rate of weight loss, body fat %, strength in the gym) to determine the diet's effectiveness.

[BikiniSlut]

They were in proportion to the rest of my physique


Taken the day after the first one.

\
Fantastic.....best physique in this thread. Not to big, not to small, not disgustingly lean....almost perfection.

[Metabolic]

Nothing in the series posted contradicts the research out there indicating that low carb/ketogenic diets strip fat and preserve muscle better than other diets on a short-term basis, the subject of this thread. Nor does any of it contradict the notion that ketosis has inherent advantages; Lyle's chart in the final post of the series indicates that keto diets (he outlines three types) are superior to other diets (high carb, low fat and mod carb, mod fat) for people who are carb addicts and who have stubborn fat deposits. Lyle's point is that despite each diet having inherent advantages, neither is the "best" independent of context.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/comparing-the-diets-part-4.html

Also, I'm not sure how you could possibly stipulate from your chair over there what criteria I used to determine whether keto was effective or not. The fact is, I used specific subjective (satiety, energy levels, performance on certain cognitive tasks -- tasks I do all the time so I can tell the difference between diets) and objective measures (weight lost, rate of weight loss, body fat %, strength in the gym) to determine the diet's effectiveness.

That is insulin resistance/sensitivity and is not of concern to anybody that isnt morbidly obese (in gross terms).

I also did Keto, I know the diet, it had ZERO advantages, "science" supports my personal experience because body weight is NOT dependant on the type of macronutrients but ON ENERGY DEFICITS CREATED THROUGH CALORIC RESTRICTIONS (and hormones of course, but for the sake of this argument Im thinking a normally functioning individual).  At most, you can say high protein diets are marginally better because of what I already exposed, other than that, Keto is a fad.

Also, there is an article in Lyles site about the correlation between fat and carbohydrate consumption and fat and carbohydrate storage depending on the amount of intake of each.

[Wiggs]

They were in proportion to the rest of my physique


Taken the day after the first one.

Awesome physique.

[Conker]

Dude, thats why it works, you cant eat enough food and starve the fat/muscle off.

Just out of interest mate, what fed/class did you compete in , how did you do at national level?

[syntaxmachine]

That is insulin resistance/sensitivity and is not of concern to anybody that isnt morbidly obese (in gross terms).

First of all, it's worth noting that this is a revised claim you're making. First you said ketosis has no inherent advantages; now you're saying these advantages are not notable except for morbidly obese persons.

Lyle and I disagree. I disagree because despite being a non-obese person, being in ketosis prevented me from getting severe urges to eat carbohydrates, something that always happens to me on low/moderate carbohydrate diets. Lyle files this under an inherent advantage of ketosis for "carb addicted" people. My experience fits into his explanations perfectly.

Lyle disagrees as well: in his review of a study on ketosis vs low-carb diets, Lyle states that "extreme carbohydrate restriction tends to help with stubborn lower body fat mobilization," something I already pointed out. I don't think it's fair to interpret that as only applying to morbidly obese persons; Lyle seems pretty clear that this is a widespread advantage for people who have certain stubborn body fat deposits, not just the obese.

In short, it's clear that the inherent advantages to ketosis mentioned by Lyle won't just affect obese persons; they will be enjoyed by most people with the specific characteristics listed.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html

Finally, I think it is telling that for his "Rapid Fat Loss Handbook," Lyle prescribes a ketogenic diet. He describes the diet as a "nearly all protein affairs, with little to no dietary fat" and as "the safest and sanest way to lose fat quickly without sacrificing health (or muscle mass)."

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-rapid-fat-loss-handbook

I'm not sure why you're attempting to cite the author of "The Ketogenic Diet" for evidence that ketogenic diets have no inherent advantages over other sorts.

At most, you can say high protein diets are marginally better because of what I already exposed, other than that, Keto is a fad.

So even if we deny keto's inherent benefits (which I just argued can't be denied), it is liable to be better than other diets in virtue of its higher protein content, albeit "marginally" so. Combine this with the fact that ketosis does in fact have inherent benefits (as Lyle, I, and many competitors who serve as guinea pigs can attest) plus the scientific research indicating that low carb/keto diets result in the most favorable body composition changes in the short term, and it seems fair to say ketosis has significant, not marginal, benefits.

[cephissus]

wiigs, please fuck off with the carbs cycling bullshit.

low energy on no carbs, what kinda bullshit is that?

the energy comes from the gear when doing this.

comeon, my strongest lifts were done while being on no carbs.

is gear a critical factor here?  what if no gear?

and why isn't anyone answering my question: is this type of eating viable for maintaining year-round condition in the high singles?

[Metabolic]

First of all, it's worth noting that this is a revised claim you're making. First you said ketosis has no inherent advantages; now you're saying these advantages are not notable except for morbidly obese persons.

Lyle and I disagree. I disagree because despite being a non-obese person, being in ketosis prevented me from getting severe urges to eat carbohydrates, something that always happens to me on low/moderate carbohydrate diets. Lyle files this under an inherent advantage of ketosis for "carb addicted" people. My experience fits into his explanations perfectly.

Lyle disagrees as well: in his review of a study on ketosis vs low-carb diets, Lyle states that "extreme carbohydrate restriction tends to help with stubborn lower body fat mobilization," something I already pointed out. I don't think it's fair to interpret that as only applying to morbidly obese persons; Lyle seems pretty clear that this is a widespread advantage for people who have certain stubborn body fat deposits, not just the obese.

In short, it's clear that the inherent advantages to ketosis mentioned by Lyle won't just affect obese persons; they will be enjoyed by most people with the specific characteristics listed.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html

Finally, I think it is telling that for his "Rapid Fat Loss Handbook," Lyle prescribes a ketogenic diet. He describes the diet as a "nearly all protein affairs, with little to no dietary fat" and as "the safest and sanest way to lose fat quickly without sacrificing health (or muscle mass)."

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-rapid-fat-loss-handbook

I'm not sure why you're attempting to cite the author of "The Ketogenic Diet" for evidence that ketogenic diets have no inherent advantages over other sorts.

So even if we deny keto's inherent benefits (which I just argued can't be denied), it is liable to be better than other diets in virtue of its higher protein content, albeit "marginally" so. Combine this with the fact that ketosis does in fact have inherent benefits (as Lyle, I, and many competitors who serve as guinea pigs can attest) plus the scientific research indicating that low carb/keto diets result in the most favorable body composition changes in the short term, and it seems fair to say ketosis has significant, not marginal, benefits.

As you stated, its only marginally better in specific situations for people with specific conditions, in general, they are not.  I wasnt being clear, but yes, in general they are no better, except for the specific (rather uncommon situations).

Also, Lyle discusses a lot of topics, his Ultimate Diet is also a specification of his standard views, which he knows most people wont even be able to follow either way.  But I dont know if this is relevant.

The "vast" scientific evidence points in many directions, theres studies defending both sides and thats the worst part of this discussion, tons of contradicting evidence.

His rapid fat loss book is about protein, not really a ketogenic diet, but an extension of his 2x grams of protein per pound of bw in caloric restriction, which leads to the final point.

Fat loss occurs naturally only when in energy deficit be it through carb less diets or other diets.  That is the final point to this, and the advantages of high protein diets can be obtained withour being ketogenic, just lowering carbs and fats for more proteins in the diet, thats all you need to do.

[booty]

Awesome physique.

X 2     Great work ukjeff. 

[Palpatine Q]

wiigs, please fuck off with the carbs cycling bullshit.

low energy on no carbs, what kinda bullshit is that?

the energy comes from the gear when doing this.

comeon, my strongest lifts were done while being on no carbs.

Wiggs Idea of Carb Cycling is eating an entire pizza every three days 

[arce1988]

 

[cephissus]

ofc you can, i do pretty much this deiting year round and im very very lean year round.
 
i allow myself very regular meals whener i want once im at my leanest, and just eat clean most of the time.

feeling full of energy and mentaly saturated, no problem at all.

i could even get way with more frequent cheating and stay sub 10% all year, but i prefer to not.

yes, i think peds are kind off essential for this.

this would probably even work better than whatever wiggs thinks will work(how would he know he hasnt been to the lean levels talked about here,hes cool guy and all, though).
yeah, just to give general idea on this, a whole pizza every 3 days will be no problem if once is very lean already and eats like suggested in op otherwise.

can you give an example of what you actually eat in an average day?

[Mjolnir]

is gear a critical factor here?  what if no gear?

and why isn't anyone answering my question: is this type of eating viable for maintaining year-round condition in the high singles?

I do the diet on no gear and it works as intended.  All I can ask the naysayers to do is TRY it and see how you go it's simple but not easy.

[The True Adonis]

Wiggs Idea of Carb Cycling is eating an entire pizza every three days 

Wiggs Idea of "Carb Cycling" is riding his moped to the liquor store on his lunch break every other day or until the Assistant Manager at Orange Julius notices.

[Palpatine Q]

Wiggs Idea of "Carb Cycling" is riding his moped to the liquor store on his lunch break every other day or until the Assistant Manager at Orange Julius notices.

LOL

[OTHstrong]

is gear a critical factor here?  what if no gear?

and why isn't anyone answering my question: is this type of eating viable for maintaining year-round condition in the high singles?

Look bro getting to where you want is the tough part, hence do it the way I outlined now as for maintaining say 8% will be easier then getting there, you can take several approaches; daily low carbs or simply have a couple days no carbs followed by 1 day of carbs.

Actually believe this or not but having 2 no carb days and eating a whole pizza every 3 days will probably still keep you in single digits like galeniko said.

[cephissus]

i never had a problem staying at 10% maybe even less.  i've always been quite lean.  however, carbs have always been a big part of my diet, along with pretty much everyone else in the US.  i never really ate "bodybuilding foods" exclusively; i've mostly counted calories and kept my macronutrient ratios within typical "bodybuilding" ranges.

since several people in this thread claim you can eat no or low carb diets year round, i want to know what you ACTUALLY DO eat year round.  i hate thinking up stuff to eat in the first place, but when you eliminate carbs from the process all i can envision is plate after plate of meat...  how do you prepare that, how do you make it tolerable?  i can't just eat lbs of plain meat and egg whites day in and day out.

[arce1988]

well, theres no easy way to get shredded.

hunger will be your shadow.

satiety from veggies and water will be as good as it gets.


Boom