Do you think there is any point in a natural base?

[chaos]

Sure.

I don't have any from my last 1.5 years or so, but this is from my 3rd year I believe. I have a bunch from 2.5 years but those are from when my last comp was when I was 5% BF  so their not an accurate representation of what I walked around at. I was 190lbs or so here. As long as I was really pushing it week after week, (as in trying to PR weekly on one of my big 3 lifts) and my nutrition was flawless, the gains kept coming even at year 5.

I'd hit it......

While repeating the verse on your bicep.

[Big Chiro Flex]

I'd hit it......

While repeating the verse on your bicep.

Thank you? 

 

[bigmc]

Sure.

I don't have any from my last 1.5 years or so, but this is from my 3rd year I believe. I have a bunch from 2.5 years but those are from when my last comp was when I was 5% BF  so their not an accurate representation of what I walked around at. I was 190lbs or so here. As long as I was really pushing it week after week, (as in trying to PR weekly on one of my big 3 lifts) and my nutrition was flawless, the gains kept coming even at year 5.

brutal flex style muscle vest

awesome 500 dollars muscletech supps

[Big Chiro Flex]

brutal flex style muscle vest

awesome 500 dollars muscletech supps

"muscle vest"   awesome brit lingo

[Van_Bilderass]

Aren't most strength gains due to technique and neural factors

Strength is related to the cross-sectional area of a muscle.

[anabolichalo]

Aren't most strength gains due to technique and neural factors

yes.

esp. for natural

[chaos]

Strength is related to the cross-sectional area of a muscle.

So bigger muscle = stronger?

[anabolichalo]

So bigger muscle = stronger?

if no changes in neuromuscular efficiency etc, YES


but in most cases there is a combination of several factors

also a "bigger muscle" does not always mean true myofibrilar hypertrophy

especially with all these insulin and seo monkeys

[King Shizzo]

So bigger muscle = stronger?

Not the case at all.

[chaos]

Not the case at all.

Don't quote me, big boys are talking here.

[Van_Bilderass]

So bigger muscle = stronger?

Yes. which is why I always say that of course load is important in building muscle. The heavier you can train the more likely you will build muscle. However, the natural athlete has a very hard time putting on appreciable muscle after that first year or two. I train with some natural elite powerlifters who have trained for many years. They frequently incorporate highish rep ranges, high enough to elicit hypertrophy. But none of them have gained any appreciable muscle mass. They can switch weight classes but it's just a case of more or less fat mass. But they have managed to up their lifts considerably.

[O.Z.]

Sure.

I don't have any from my last 1.5 years or so, but this is from my 3rd year I believe. I have a bunch from 2.5 years but those are from when my last comp was when I was 5% BF  so their not an accurate representation of what I walked around at. I was 190lbs or so here. As long as I was really pushing it week after week, (as in trying to PR weekly on one of my big 3 lifts) and my nutrition was flawless, the gains kept coming even at year 5.

Are you saying you went down to 5% natural? What did your diet look like at the time (number of calories, %protein, %fat, %carbs)?

[Disgusted]

Yes. which is why I always say that of course load is important in building muscle. The heavier you can train the more likely you will build muscle. However, the natural athlete has a very hard time putting on appreciable muscle after that first year or two. I train with some natural elite powerlifters who have trained for many years. They frequently incorporate highish rep ranges, high enough to elicit hypertrophy. But none of them have gained any appreciable muscle mass. They can switch weight classes but it's just a case of more or less fat mass. But they have managed to up their lifts considerably.

I'll second this. I remember lifting with a group of power lifters back in the day who were all natural and very strong. None of these guys were all that big and on was small. I remember thinking how the fuck can this guy be getting stronger but not any bigger. If you saw this guy on the street you wouldn't have known he lifted, but he was very strong.

[O.Z.]

oh geting shredded natural is definitely possible.

will send you a message about this as for a last week or so I feel like I am stuck with not loosing any weight.

[Big Chiro Flex]

Are you saying you went down to 5% natural? What did your diet look like at the time (number of calories, %protein, %fat, %carbs)?

yep.

5.0% using a 9 point skin caliper...I checked weekly and dropped roughly 0.5% each week to get there.  Upper body was striated everywhere, though glutes and hams were smooth as a babies ass as typical with most natties. 

15 week prep: 35 mins LI am cardio daily, 35 LI post workout cardio daily, HIIT on off days at night.

40/40/20  carbs/protein/fats, was close to 2k calories. I still use a 4/4/2 ratio, it just works well with my metabolism.

Side note: my physique and stats are NOT extraordinary for a natty. Average generics at best but I lived a bodybuilding monk lifestyle for those 15 weeks and this was the end result. Your average black teenager would "do more damage on stage" at a local natty show if they applied themselves like this.

[Soul Crusher]

yep.

5.0% using a 9 point skin caliper...I checked weekly and dropped roughly 0.5% each week to get there.  Upper body was striated everywhere, though glutes and hams were smooth as a babies ass as typical with most natties. 

15 week prep: 35 mins LI am cardio daily, 35 LI post workout cardio daily, HIIT on off days at night.

40/40/20  carbs/protein/fats, was close to 2k calories. I still use a 4/4/2 ratio, it just works well with my metabolism.

Side note: my physique and stats are NOT extraordinary for a natty. Average generics at best but I lived a bodybuilding monk lifestyle for those 15 weeks and this was the end result. Your average black teenager would "do more damage on stage" at a local natty show if they applied themselves like this.

Congrats dude - I tell these people - its mental commitment and drive. 

[Big Chiro Flex]

Congrats dude - I tell these people - its mental commitment and drive.  

Thanks man...5th place In the Novice division   tremendous achievement!!!!

I know you bust your ass as well, good on you bro.

[O.Z.]

yep.

5.0% using a 9 point skin caliper...I checked weekly and dropped roughly 0.5% each week to get there.  Upper body was striated everywhere, though glutes and hams were smooth as a babies ass as typical with most natties. 

15 week prep: 35 mins LI am cardio daily, 35 LI post workout cardio daily, HIIT on off days at night.

40/40/20  carbs/protein/fats, was close to 2k calories. I still use a 4/4/2 ratio, it just works well with my metabolism.

Side note: my physique and stats are NOT extraordinary for a natty. Average generics at best but I lived a bodybuilding monk lifestyle for those 15 weeks and this was the end result. Your average black teenager would "do more damage on stage" at a local natty show if they applied themselves like this.

thanks for sharing
cheers

[Soul Crusher]

Thanks man...5th place In the Novice division   tremendous achievement!!!!

I know you bust your ass as well, good on you bro.

I love training always have.  The gym is my place of peace.  Hard to explain to people who see it as a chore and only a means to look good.

I live to lift and always have. 

[flinstones1]

nah, although most gym-goers seem to be.

it all comes down to DNA, as arce so finely puts it.  the average bber can jam all the needles up his ass he wants, he'll still be "hilariously short".  the stringy white kid can stuff his face and lift all the heavy weights he wants, he'll just end up a bloated permabulking mess.  the average ex-athlete can juice or train as "intelligently" as he wants, he'll just look out of place where ever he goes -- so-so in the gym and too insecure-ish looking in real life.

the gym is full of people trying to be something they're not.  when i was younger, i fit right in, thinking i was hot shit and wanting to be big, freaky, etc.  "to whom much is given, much is expected", after all.  i came to realize i was just "decent" and lowered my expectations.  so no, i'm not frustrated.  these days, i'm just happy i was given more than most: i'm lucky to be tall, lean, without glaring weaknesses, and hold enough muscle to look like i at least belong in the gym when i'm there.  i look at most people in the gym and think "thank fuck im not him, what the hell would be the point?"

(no primemuscle)

to put this more accurately for you guys-, cephissus is. the typical tall caucasion guy you see in the garden department at homedepot with a  hot blue eyed chick on a sunday morning, the guy most bald meatheads look at in envy while they spend theirs unday mornings watching football with a room full of dudes after leg day.

 hth

[chaos]

I'll second this. I remember lifting with a group of power lifters back in the day who were all natural and very strong. None of these guys were all that big and on was small. I remember thinking how the fuck can this guy be getting stronger but not any bigger. If you saw this guy on the street you wouldn't have known he lifted, but he was very strong.

I think genetics and frame size has alot to do with it also.

[Man of Steel]

Anyone experience depression after getting off the sauce due to not being able to be as big and muscular?  When that extra muscularity leaves you and the attention is gone I've heard some guys get way low for awhile.  Some guys quite training altogether cause "what's the point?"

[Soul Crusher]

Anyone experience depression after getting off the sauce due to not being able to be as big and muscular?  When that extra muscularity leaves you and the attention is gone I've heard some guys get way low for awhile.  Some guys quite training altogether cause "what's the point?"

The point of training is different for everyone, some just looks, some fitness, some to supplement other activities.  When you get older it helps being in better overall shape and still be able to do things that you enjoy physically.

A lot of my friends who never lifted during their twenties or early thirties are all banged up w back aches, knee issues, surgeries, obesity etc. 

Time you put in now pays dividends later on.   

[Big Chiro Flex]

Anyone experience depression after getting off the sauce due to not being able to be as big and muscular?  When that extra muscularity leaves you and the attention is gone I've heard some guys get way low for awhile.  Some guys quite training altogether cause "what's the point?"

I doubt anyone who has been hammering away at it naturally for 5+ years then switched to gear  would share this sentiment.

Usually it's the clowns who start training/juicing at the same exact time. Guys who will only train if theres hormones in their system.

[bigmc]

The point of training is different for everyone, some just looks, some fitness, some to supplement other activities.  When you get older it helps being in better overall shape and still be able to do things that you enjoy physically.

A lot of my friends who never lifted during their twenties or early thirties are all banged up w back aches, knee issues, surgeries, obesity etc. 

Time you put in now pays dividends later on.   

what is the point of rolling around in a sand pit then wading through a shit filled pond

how does that improve your fitness