Do you think there is any point in a natural base?

[Soul Crusher]

what is the point of rolling around in a sand pit then wading through a shit filled pond

how does that improve your fitness

It doesn't - its goofy and almost a gag.   But it keeps me motivated to train hard so that I don't get bored just lifting for the sake of it. 

[bigmc]

It doesn't - its goofy and almost a gag.   But it keeps me motivated to train hard so that I don't get bored just lifting for the sake of it. 

training should be hard

the mental challenge is just as important as the physical

gimmickry like smearing your face in dog shit while getting sand in your shoes is the first step to giving up altogether

[Soul Crusher]

training should be hard

the mental challenge is just as important as the physical

gimmickry like smearing your face in dog shit while getting sand in your shoes is the first step to giving up altogether

I also do the Spartan races, etc.   Thinking of doing another show late next year for the fuck of it. 

I need something on the calendar to keep me motivated - just what works for me.  Otherwise - my diet goes to shit and I get a bit stuck into boring routines that no longer work for me.

[bigmc]

I also do the Spartan races, etc.   Thinking of doing another show late next year for the fuck of it. 

I need something on the calendar to keep me motivated - just what works for me.  Otherwise - my diet goes to shit and I get a bit stuck into boring routines that no longer work for me.

fair enough

[chaos]

I also do the Spartan races, etc.   Thinking of doing another show late next year for the fuck of it. 

I need something on the calendar to keep me motivated - just what works for me.  Otherwise - my diet goes to shit and I get a bit stuck into boring routines that no longer work for me.

Sounds like you lack self discipline and internal motivation.

[Soul Crusher]

Sounds like you lack self discipline and internal motivation.

Not at all - just that been lifting for 20 years now and it got boring to me just limiting activities to the weight room alone. 

Even when I was fatter - I lifted all the time - just that without something on the calendar to focus on - its harder to justify dieting harder etc etc.

[anabolichalo]

Yes. which is why I always say that of course load is important in building muscle. The heavier you can train the more likely you will build muscle. However, the natural athlete has a very hard time putting on appreciable muscle after that first year or two. I train with some natural elite powerlifters who have trained for many years. They frequently incorporate highish rep ranges, high enough to elicit hypertrophy. But none of them have gained any appreciable muscle mass. They can switch weight classes but it's just a case of more or less fat mass. But they have managed to up their lifts considerably.

you pointed out that all pros pretty much use anadrol dianabol etc for enhancing strength

good point

[Mr Nobody]

I think genetics and frame size has alot to do with it also.

True. Calvin can't dunk but a ok dude.

[Disgusted]

I think genetics and frame size has alot to do with it also.

To a degree, but one has to wonder if he would have done more reps and sets if he would have grown. Remember, he was natty which is hard enuff to grow and the fact he only trained like a power lifter was even worse.

[MAXX]

If you want to build muscles just lift weights and eat correctly. After some time you maximize your potential for each muscular group, reach its maximal development which is called the plateau phase. You cant add more weights anymore, you just hit your plateau. Try to develop the lagging bodypart to create a balanced physique. Be content with it, keep lifting (less) and eating healthy to maintain and ...finally fucking go find something else to do for a change.

haha yes well said.

..or you can continue past that limit and inject yourself to "glory"  

edit: sorry shouldn't talk negative this is "getbig" after all

[King Shizzo]

I'll second this. I remember lifting with a group of power lifters back in the day who were all natural and very strong. None of these guys were all that big and on was small. I remember thinking how the fuck can this guy be getting stronger but not any bigger. If you saw this guy on the street you wouldn't have known he lifted, but he was very strong.

That is exactly why I think muscle size has nothing to do with strength.

[Soul Crusher]

That is exactly why I think muscle size has nothing to do with strength.

When I first started really working out at 18yo or so I was in Bally's w my boy who was a tall guy , a basketball player type who was strong as a MOFO but did not look it and he would abuse a lot of dudes who looked stronger than him all the time in all sorts of lifts.  He busted his ass too but always was way stronger than he looked.

Then there were a lot of black dudes who looked unbelievable while barely lifting who were way weaker than they looked.  They looked great for BB, but the strength levels did not associate w the looks.   

 

[King Shizzo]

When I first started really working out at 18yo or so I was in Bally's w my boy who was a tall guy , a basketball player type who was strong as a MOFO but did not look it and he would abuse a lot of dudes who looked stronger than him all the time in all sorts of lifts.  He busted his ass too but always was way stronger than he looked.

Then there were a lot of black dudes who looked unbelievable while barely lifting who were way weaker than they looked.  They looked great for BB, but the strength levels did not associate w the looks.   

 

It's all about knowledge, form, and repetition. Natural strength has alot to do with it as well. I compare it to guys born with rocket arms.

[Soul Crusher]

It's all about knowledge, form, and repetition. Natural strength has alot to do with it as well. I compare it to guys born with rocket arms.

It was really funny - since he was a tall greek kid and these black guys who were jacked and looked insanely good were screaming doing seated militaries w 60lb dumbbells and making a scene and he would walk over and be like "bro - we are trying to warm up over here - you done with those . . . . " 


ha ha ha ha ha 

[Van_Bilderass]

I doubt anyone who has been hammering away at it naturally for 5+ years then switched to gear  would share this sentiment.

Usually it's the clowns who start training/juicing at the same exact time. Guys who will only train if theres hormones in their system.

Think again. How fun is it to train knowing for certain that you are only maintaining - at best? As a lifelong natural you can still convince yourself that you might make some type of gains if you keep at it. If you know for certain you're never cycling again it's a pretty depressing place to be in. If you're only training to maintain somewhat between cycles then it's easier.

Also, once you've juiced extensively your clean state might be worse than if you never juiced at all, with the often permanently depressed testosterone levels. That's why most former juicers who continue training go on HRT, preferably on a liberal dosage (for example like Galeniko).

[flinstones1]

no there is no point in building a natural base...teststerone enanthate specifically i has been proven to create new satellite cells. testosterone has been shown to change shape of muscle fibers.

natural base my ass,,,,, If you wait until your 25 years old to start juicing, you will never be a freak.

[King Shizzo]

no there is no point in building a natural base...teststerone enanthate specifically i has been proven to create new satellite cells. testosterone has been shown to change shape of muscle fibers.

natural base my ass,,,,, If you wait until your 25 years old to start juicing, you will never be a freak.

Don Youngblood would like a word with you.

[doriancutlerman]

Don Youngblood would like a word with you.

True, but we'd need an Ouija board to consult with him 

[Soul Crusher]

no there is no point in building a natural base...teststerone enanthate specifically i has been proven to create new satellite cells. testosterone has been shown to change shape of muscle fibers.

natural base my ass,,,,, If you wait until your 25 years old to start juicing, you will never be a freak.

LOL - I have seen guys like you come and go for 20 years now like a dime a dozen.  20 years from now you will be either fat fuck or a skinny twink who looks like he never worked out a day in his life.  I been at this since almost as long as you are alive and seen guys like you all the time.  Get bloated and big, get sick and develop health issues or get lazy and stop training, and just fade away or get fat and obese.      

Enjoy it now - you wont have it for long at all.   Just take pics now so when you are 30, 35, 40, you can look back and say what a beast you were when you were 25.    

[First Blood]

Great thread. Build a base (2-3 years max) but if the goal is to get huge and compete you need to start early (in most cases).

I wish I had the balls to juice. I have been training as a natural for many years and the muscular gains are at this point nonexistent. I still like working out tho just because training is therapy and you can look decent when lean. But being able to make to further gains would definately make it much more enjoyable.

[Soul Crusher]

Great thread. Build a base (2-3 years max) but if the goal is to get huge and compete you need to start early (in most cases).

Short term goals are fine - but what is the end game? 

[First Blood]

Short term goals are fine - but what is the end game? 

Yeah, competitive bodybuilding will never be healthy. But most of the really big guys I have seen/read about started early,

[cephissus]

LOL - I have seen guys like you come and go for 20 years now like a dime a dozen.  20 years from now you will be either fat fuck or a skinny twink who looks like he never worked out a day in his life.  I been at this since almost as long as you are alive and seen guys like you all the time.  Get bloated and big, get sick and develop health issues or get lazy and stop training, and just fade away or get fat and obese.      

Enjoy it now - you wont have it for long at all.   Just take pics now so when you are 30, 35, 40, you can look back and say what a beast you were when you were 25.    

and in 20 years, you'll still somehow believe working out can make up for being 5'3"

[AVBG]

LOL - I have seen guys like you come and go for 20 years now like a dime a dozen.  20 years from now you will be either fat fuck or a skinny twink who looks like he never worked out a day in his life.  I been at this since almost as long as you are alive and seen guys like you all the time.  Get bloated and big, get sick and develop health issues or get lazy and stop training, and just fade away or get fat and obese.      

Enjoy it now - you wont have it for long at all.   Just take pics now so when you are 30, 35, 40, you can look back and say what a beast you were when you were 25.    

100%

[chaos]

To a degree, but one has to wonder if he would have done more reps and sets if he would have grown. Remember, he was natty which is hard enuff to grow and the fact he only trained like a power lifter was even worse.

Well I'm sitting at 280 and people think I'm 240, even other experienced lifters, because I have a large frame. To think I would fit into some generic mold of "a natural can only weigh X amount at X height" is just silly.