I assume most are "HARD-GAINERS"

[brianX]

http://powerandbulk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1651

Stuart McRobert's visit to the shrink

In a small office on the thirteenth floor of a large office building there sits a very skinny man with tears running down his cheeks and big black bags under his eyes. Then all of a sudden an older man with a big grey beard enters the room and introduces himself as Dr. Psychiatrist.

Dr. P: "What seems to be the problem, Mr Mcrobert?"

Stuie: "I-i-it's m-m-my n-nightmares!!!

Dr. P: "Nightmares? Explain."

Stuie: "W-well, every night I go to sleep exactly 4 hours and 53 minutes after my weight training. I do this to ensure that the one muscle fiber I stimulated has enough time to think about how it is genetically disadvantaged before going to bed. But for the last week or so I have been waking up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night. My heart is racing, my eyes are tearing up and my Barbie pyjamas are soaked!"

Dr. P: "I see, I see. Now what is happening in these nightmares?"

Stuie: "Well, it's very difficult to remember exactly what happened but I remember that I was on my way to the local gym. I was wearing my usual Batman costume so no one at the gym would notice how small my muscles are. After calibrating the genetic potential of my new running shoes. I headed over to the weight room. But when I got there, it was full of people with...with...muscles! Waaaaaahhh!"

Dr. P: "But isn't a gym a place where people build their muscles?"

Stuie: "What are you, some kind of drug user?!!"

Dr. P: "Sorry, go on."

Stuie: "Anyway, all of the guys in the gym were huge. I did what any normal person would do and openly declared all of them drug users. Not one of them payed any attention to me and just kept on working, their muscles getting bigger with each rep! I was too angry at this complete disregard of sound training to begin my workout, so I just stood in a corner thinking about how much good advice I could give these guys if they would just stop training."

Dr. P: "Stuart, why would you give them advice? They are already big and strong."

Stuie: "What are you some kind of a drug user?!!"

Dr. P: "Stuart, calm down. I don't even lift weights."

Stuie: "See how easy it is for you easy gainers!"

Dr. P: "Just finish your damn story!"

Stuie: "Ok! Anyway, I was at this point amazed at the complete lack of sensible training. I even caught several of them doing 2 or more sets of a weight that would crush an army of hard gainers. I had to put a stop to this! I shouted and shouted at them to reduce the weight and increse the complaining but no one payed any attention. Them in the corner of the room a man dressed all in black just pointed at me and said "you go downstairs". I did as he said without even thinking and went down some stairs into the basement and was amazed what I found."

Dr. P: "What was there, Stuie?"

Stuie: "Well, the whole basement was a giant gym just like upstairs, but this time it was full of very skinny, sad men who just sat on benches and sighed. "Why aren't my arms bigger?" one said. Another spoke out "I wish someone could give me that great routine that will take my bench press from 80 to 82lbs". I was so happy that I was finally in a place where REAL trainers worked out. These guys were so well educated that they didn't even risk overtraining BY training. I was so fired up for a workout that I ran to the power rack. I loaded the bar with the standard 2.5lb plates. This would be the week that I hit 50lbs for 8 reps. I psyched myself up but at the same time promised that even if I missed the goal I would still buy myself an ice cream for trying. I bent down to tighten my shoe lace and then when I looked up...the..the"

Dr. P: "What Stuie? You have to let loose your feelings."

Stuie: "Well, (gulp) when I looked back at the squat bar it was now all of a sudden loaded with 2 45lb plates!!! 135lbs of overtraining, failure, and bad genetics. I was so scared that I squeeled like a girl scout that just burnt her brownies. But then after I blinked they were back to just the 2.5lb plates. Chalking this hallucination up to an animal product I had eaten when I was 5, I decided to continue. I placed my motivational cassette player on the floor and my photo radar machine on a bench near by to make sure I didn't exceed a 2/4 rep cadence. I decended for my first rep. Tough, but great work for a hardgainer who is doomed to never become strong. Three reps in I was feeling good but then all of a sudden the plates...the turned into...(gulp) 45 pounders again!"

Dr. P: "Sigh"

Stuie: "The weight was so heavy it felt like there was a herd of elephants having a disco party on my back. I Fell to the ground like a discarded kleenex and actually broke through the floor! I just kept falling down into this abyss until I finally landed in a pit of..of..supplements! There were supplements everywhere! Then from behind me I heard these guys talking. I looked and there was a man who also had muscles buying a can of basic milk and egg protein powder. Of all the nerve! I junged out to try and stop him from further destroying his body but he just tossed me like a frisbee into the air and I just kept going. Then I finally landed in a different gym, equally loaded with muscular strong men. But this time they noticed me immeadiatly. One shouted "Hey! That's Stuie McRobert! Look how fucking small he is! And he writes books on weight training?! Ha ha ha ha ha!". And then all of them were laughing at me, none of them even considering the fact that I could actually be Batman. Then I just fell to the ground crying, and that's when I woke up."


Dr. P: "Ah, I see. Well Stuie, I think I know what the problem is."

Stuie: "Really?!! Oh good! What is it? Train less often? Reduce the poundage? Spout more negative jargon?

Dr. P: "No, none of them will help you."

Stuie: "Then what should I do Doc?"

Dr. P: "Well, you can start by NOT BEING SUCH A FUCKING WHINY LITTLE BITCH!!! Start training like a man, you little rectal wart! Your nothing but a baby looking for excuses not to work hard, eat lots, and work hard some more! Get with the fucking program! Stop hiding behind your genetic imperfections and be glad you've got 2 arms, 2 legs, and some very small balls! My sister is a quadroplegic and she manages to race in the provincial games by training 5 times a week and not letting her limitations limit her achievments! So get off your ass, hoist some big weights, and for christ's sake take off that ridiculous Batman outfit!

Stuie: --- "What are you, some kind of drug user?!!"


Stuart then leaves the office and never returned to that Psychiatrist. The next day Dr. P took up weight training and is now a runner up powerlifting champion in the 55+ age category.

[MCWAY]

Nah, I don't believe that. You were closer about the lack of eating IMO.

I'm a "hard gainer" simply because I'm genetically predispositioned not to store weight. I have to eat a shitload of food to grow. I train like a mad man, yet because of lack of food, I hardly grow at all. That's my reason, anyway. It's not possible for me to train any harder.

You just mentioned the solution to your own problem. If you need lots of food to grow, then get them calories by any means you can. Your blender should be your best friend, whirling and churning, making shakes left and right. What you can't eat in solid food, DRINK in liquid food: MRPs, weight-gainer shakes, or old-school protein drinks, using recipes from old muscle magazines.

I've been where you are now. As stated earlier, it once took consuming over 5000 calories (and at times, as many as 6500) to get my bodyweight well over 200 lbs. I was going through those 12 lb. bags of Mega Mass 2000 left and right, as well as making shakes from eggs, milk, and cheap milk-and-egg protein powder.

You know where your problem lies, YOUR DIET!!! Make the changes, consume them calories (eat 'em, drink 'em, whatever), and business will pick up. Use the "Poor Man's MET-Rx" recipe I outlined, if necessary.

BTW, Gibber,  LovetheSport's dilemma is a prime example of "self-inflicted" wounds.

[GoneAway]

You just mentioned the solution to your own problem. If you need lots of food to grow, then get them calories by any means you can. Your blender should be your best friend, whirling and churning, making shakes left and right. What you can't eat in solid food, DRINK in liquid food: MRPs, weight-gainer shakes, or old-school protein drinks, using recipes from old muscle magazines.

I've been where you are now. As stated earlier, it once took consuming over 5000 calories (and at times, as many as 6500) to get my bodyweight well over 200 lbs. I was going through those 12 lb. bags of Mega Mass 2000 left and right, as well as making shakes from eggs, milk, and cheap milk-and-egg protein powder.

You know where your problem lies, YOUR DIET!!! Make the changes, consume them calories (eat 'em, drink 'em, whatever), and business will pick up. Use the "Poor Man's MET-Rx" recipe I outlined, if necessary.

BTW, Gibber,  LovetheSport's dilemma is a prime example of "self-inflicted" wounds.

That is exactly what I am doing today! I'm about to head to the gym, and then to the grocery store to buy the food for the recipes in Arnold's encyclopedia. I wasn't complaining, just saying that I'm pretty sure where my problem lies. I'm sure alot of others are in the same boat (lacking the nutrients needed to grow.) They just don't realise it or simply can't be bothered to do something about it (like me for quite a long time.)

[gibberj2]

what if your problem lies in trying to do the stuff arnold did or claimed to do. a hardgainer could never handle that kind of training. each muscle for and hour or two 3 times a week? training twice a day? If arnold could handle it... well he was huge and on drugs. human beings can't do that stuff.

[MCWAY]

what if your problem lies in trying to do the stuff arnold did or claimed to do. a hardgainer could never handle that kind of training. each muscle for and hour or two 3 times a week? training twice a day? If arnold could handle it... well he was huge and on drugs. human beings can't do that stuff.

Then, back off and train differently. Reduce your volume and, if necessary, stop training to failure. As the Awesome One, Lee Haney, liked to say, "Stimulate; don't annihilate. Not even  Arnold HIMSELF would suggest that someone should train like him, if they can't recuperate from it, especially if their development is not on par with what his was in the Oak's prime.

Most of all, get those calories into that tummy. If it takes 4000 calories to get it done, eat/drink them. If that doesn't work, bump it up to 4500. Still stalled? Go for 5000!!

Don't stop until the scale starts moving and you start getting bigger and stronger.

[gibberj2]

is't the tape measure and mirror more important than the scale. natural trainers grow muscle very slowly after their first year of "virgin gains". the extra food won't force the muscle to grow any faster.

[MCWAY]

is't the tape measure and mirror more important than the scale. natural trainers grow muscle very slowly after their first year of "virgin gains". the extra food won't force the muscle to grow any faster.

The heck it won't!!! My "virgin gains" came in 1990, when I went from 142 to 163 lbs. in one semester of high school. I thought that this would be the only time I'd make gains that quickly, especially after I got to college.

Fast forward to 1996. I managed to get to 189 lbs. I re-read that issue of MuscleMag I mentioned, when I first posted on this thread (#145). This time, I paid specific attention to the diet section. I started that spring semester of school at 189 lbs., with the goal of hitting 200 by semester's end.

I hit 200 about 6-7 weeks ahead of schedule. So, I kept it up to see how much more progress I could make. The end result (as mentioned before): 210 lbs!! (with the abs all present and accounted for). So much for the slow progress after the "virgin gains".

And, NO!!! I did not take any anabolics. Every tip I have mentioned, I did myself (the blended home-made shakes, the bags of Mega Mass 2000, etc.).

I put on over 20 lbs. in three months in 1990. I duplicated that feat six years later. Granted, it took WAAAAAAY more calories to do it in '96 than it did in '90. But, I did it nonetheless.

[gibberj2]

that's very good. but you still ate what you needed right? if that happened to be a lot then it was a lot.

[MCWAY]

that's very good. but you still ate what you needed right? if that happened to be a lot then it was a lot.

Exactly!!! At that time, I needed several thousand calories to get bigger and stronger. So, that's what I did. I gave my body what it needed and it responded accordingly.

You may need 4000 calories (or more) to grow. If that's the case, let the eating/drinking begin. If you make the kind of gains that I did, you certainly won't feel like a hardgainer, anymore.

[jonno gb]

Mcway-did you just eat 'clean' calories or just anything in order to bulk up?

[davie]

Hey MCWAY i posted tgis on nutrition board, have always thouight of myself as hardgainer  (well not hardgainer, but a sometimes stuborn gainer).... but am finding ur posts on this interesting. Here is a rough diet etc, im 6'1/6'2 at about 185.


Il be spending £40 on supps wether i get 1 gainer and 1 weigh, or just 2 gainers, a month.
Iv sometimes had probs getting in enough daily calories/meals. I wanna make sure im really forcing the food in and feeding the muscles, i have pretty fast metabolism and think i can handle the extra carbs that the gainers has+i think i need the extra protein the gainer has.
Im in gym 3 times a week +hav rugby 3 times a week (2 training sessions and a game), so im burning up a fair few calories+i hav pretty fast metabolism, so can u see y i think i can handle/need the extra carbs aswell as protein?!

Diet looks roughly like this.
1. cereal+4 egg ommelette (i know cereal aint great but iv always loved it).
2. gainer shake with added protein, fruit.
3. 2 baked potatoes with can of tuna.
4. cup of whole wheat pasta+ cans tuna.
GYM
5. gainer shake with added protein (45g's protein, 62g's carbs).
6. evening meal e.g. salmon and boiled potatoes adn veggies.
7. gainer shake with added protein.
BED

Comes to about 253 g's carbs (not including baked potatoes as i dont no the carb numbers per potato) + about 223g's protein.

davie

[MCWAY]

Mcway-did you just eat 'clean' calories or just anything in order to bulk up?

I listed the foods I ate, several posts ago: whole eggs, milk, beef, vegetables (from the salad bar in the college cafeteria) and Mega Mass 2000. If by your definition of "clean" you mean egg whites, chicken breasts, etc., NO!! I did not eat "clean".

With that said, just because you can eat more calorie-dense foods doesn't give you a license to pig out on junk. Truth be told, consuming such stuff gave me little room for any junk food (except for the occasional order of hot wings). I went without eating candy for nearly 2 years (when you're guzzling Mega Mass shakes repeatedly, the appetite for sweets just ain't there).

Keep in mind that this was about 10 years ago. I was younger, had a faster metabolism, and was more active outside the gym than I am now.

[MCWAY]

Hey MCWAY i posted tgis on nutrition board, have always thouight of myself as hardgainer  (well not hardgainer, but a sometimes stuborn gainer).... but am finding ur posts on this interesting. Here is a rough diet etc, im 6'1/6'2 at about 185.


Il be spending £40 on supps wether i get 1 gainer and 1 weigh, or just 2 gainers, a month.
Iv sometimes had probs getting in enough daily calories/meals. I wanna make sure im really forcing the food in and feeding the muscles, i have pretty fast metabolism and think i can handle the extra carbs that the gainers has+i think i need the extra protein the gainer has.
Im in gym 3 times a week +hav rugby 3 times a week (2 training sessions and a game), so im burning up a fair few calories+i hav pretty fast metabolism, so can u see y i think i can handle/need the extra carbs aswell as protein?!

Diet looks roughly like this.
1. cereal+4 egg ommelette (i know cereal aint great but iv always loved it).
2. gainer shake with added protein, fruit.
3. 2 baked potatoes with can of tuna.
4. cup of whole wheat pasta+ cans tuna.
GYM
5. gainer shake with added protein (45g's protein, 62g's carbs).
6. evening meal e.g. salmon and boiled potatoes adn veggies.
7. gainer shake with added protein.
BED

Comes to about 253 g's carbs (not including baked potatoes as i dont no the carb numbers per potato) + about 223g's protein.

davie

You might want to add a little more protein to some of those meals, particularly meals 1 and 3. How about a cup of yogurt with each of those meals, which can tack on about 8-12 extra grams of protein. Overall, you should try to push your protein intake to 300 grams. At 6'2", 185, you appear to be an ectomorph, so the extra protein and calories should serve you well.

[davie]

You might want to add a little more protein to some of those meals, particularly meals 1 and 3. How about a cup of yogurt with each of those meals, which can tack on about 8-12 extra grams of protein. Overall, you should try to push your protein intake to 300 grams. At 6'2", 185, you appear to be an ectomorph, so the extra protein and calories should serve you well.

Cheers buddy, il keep that in mind, i can see this diet cost creaping up lol.

I was wandering, how did u training program look when u wer doing this heavy bulking? Has it changed alot from then until now??

davie

[MCWAY]

Cheers buddy, il keep that in mind, i can see this diet cost creaping up lol.

I was wandering, how did u training program look when u wer doing this heavy bulking? Has it changed alot from then until now??

davie

My training program has changed very little. As I mentioned earlier, I train (at least, with my upper body) using Alternates. Again, that simply means that I train antagonistic bodyparts together (chest and back, biceps and triceps, shoulders and traps). For instance, when doing back and chest, I'll do rows, rest for about 2 minutes, then do bench presses.

I don't train to failure, as doing so in the past hampered my ability to recover. Remember this: you can beat yourself in the gym all you want. But, if you don't recover from that beating, you WILL NOT GROW!!!

My split was (and still is) fairly simple: Monday and Thursday - upper body; Tuesday and Friday - legs. The one major change I've made over the years is that on Thursdays, I do arms first.

A minor change is that, as far as triceps is concerned, I've dropped barbell and dumbbell extensions. When I was heavier, such exercises didn't bother me. But, since I've leaned out somewhat, those moves were killing my elbows.

If you can hammer yourself in the gym and be slightly sore (or not sore at all), that's a good sign that you're recovering from your training. Again, based on your height and weight (and your assumed young age), you can certainly afford to pack away the groceries. I'd  say your protein content should be 300 grams of protein, at a minimum.

[MCWAY]

Nothing in life is either "hard" or "easy." The Law of Relativity says that nothing has any value until compared to something else.

People who label themselves hargainers are comparing themselves to people the "wish" they were like. This is not a healthy mental approach.

You only have your own body. It's you against you. That's it.

Wouldn't you go through the process with a lot less frustration by not labeling yourself a hardgainer?

What purpose does that serve?

And, if you insist on calling yourself a hardgainer, you better sure as hell never miss a workout and never skip a meal. If you aren't doing all of the basiscs and are still blaming your lack of success (which iss all relative), then calling yourself a hardgainer is just your excuse and a diversion.

A self-proclaimed hardgainer, in my humble opinion, will not have the mental fortitude to get the job done day in and day out.

Agreed!!

[MCWAY]

gaining weight isnt just about eating enough, its about eating smart.  sometimes hardgainers think they are eating a lot because of teh amount of food they eat in a meal, but in reality, the meal was large, but had very few calories. 

try to make 5 super thick peanut butter sandwiches everyday, and i mean thick.  the peanut butter should be oozing out the sides.  put them in a tupper wear container and take them with you throughout the day whereever you go.  eat a sandwich between every regular meal. 

also, start buying milk.  drink 1/2 a gallon a day, and then build up to a gallon a day.

milk and peanut butter will put on weight.

Throw in a cup of yogurt, with those sandwiches, and you're in busniess.

Or, if you're really strapped for cash, you can downevaporated milk. A 12-oz. can has 25 grams of protein and 300-500 calories, depending on the fat content.

[MCWAY]

I was just wondering if this thread was still here!!!