My kid last night hitting 480lbs

[BB]

I actually agree with Basile to an extent on this one.

Is it necessary for a 17 year to do box squats with near 500lbs? Is it really improving his athletic performance anymore than just regular ATG squats with 3/5ths of that weight would? I’m not sure.
I can understand that it’s occasionally good for an athlete to go heavy as it gets them familiar with the bigger loads among other reasons but I think the kid could wait a few more years before he starts doing it.

At the moment, it just seems like a way to massage the kid’s ego if anything.

Yeah, there is part of me that goes "you know, why not stay in a nice double or triple range for safety's sake". But then on the flip side, kids are going to test one rep maxes no matter what you do, so I would rather them do it in safe and structured manner, rather than just sneaking around, and going for them.

[chaos]

Gym owners like the coach are dangerous. Why would anyone encourage a 17 year old to use that much weight? That can't be justified to me.

Do full squats like Tom Platz recommends and forget about all that other crap with boxes and chains. There is absolutely no need to do

a squat for a single. I shake my head at some of the silly things done in gyms.

Outed for knowing jack shit about strength training.

[SuperTed]

Yeah, there is part of me that goes "you know, why not stay in a nice double or triple range for safety's sake". But then on the flip side, kids are going to test one rep maxes no matter what you do, so I would rather them do it in safe and structured manner, rather than just sneaking around, and going for them.

Good point but this is the thing for me, most of these kids who do ego lifting don’t have any guidance so assume what they are doing is safe, or at least aren’t thinking about the hazards.
However, considering these kids that are being trained by Joe they have the luxury of an experienced mentor helping them, he should be warning them the dangers of lifting beyond their capabilities.

You seem like a knowledgeable dude. Do you think doing a 500lb box squat is significantly more beneficial towards athletic performance than doing a few controlled ATG squats with 315lbs? Bear in mind we aren’t talking about advanced lifters but inexperienced teens.

I actually get the idea that Coach encourages the heavy lifting more because he enjoys the whole “macho” image that lifting big amounts of weight has rather than seeing any real advantage in it.

[Grape Ape]

Good point but this is the thing for me, most of these kids who do ego lifting don’t have any guidance so assume what they are doing is safe, or at least aren’t thinking about the hazards.
However, considering these kids that are being trained by Joe they have the luxury of an experienced mentor helping them, he should be warning them the dangers of lifting beyond their capabilities.

You seem like a knowledgeable dude. Do you think doing a 500lb box squat is significantly more beneficial towards athletic performance than doing a few controlled ATG squats with 315lbs? Bear in mind we aren’t talking about advanced lifters but inexperienced teens.

I actually get the idea that Coach encourages the heavy lifting more because he enjoys the whole “macho” image that lifting big amounts of weight has rather than seeing any real advantage in it.

His son has been progressing up to this.  He's posted video of the progression, so it's all being done safely and controlled.

Also, why do you think controlled 315 ATG is safer than a controlled 480 lb box?

[Never1AShow]

Again, feel free to come train with on either a max lower or upper. You seem to be avoiding this invite. I've had several solid getbiggers in to train. Check that. You're invited to come in for the entire week.

I don't liv anywhere near Huntington Beach

[Never1AShow]

Actually you just posted that you did 315 x 31. Even 315 x 15 would put you at around a 515 1RM. 31 would be like what? Close to 700-750 or more?

Yes, I did post that.  Something done long ago when there were no cell phones much less cell phone cameras I  a gym.  But I didn't post any video making a claim no one can see.

[Never1AShow]

Here Ya go. I'm not good at technology so it takes me awhile to figure this stuff out. He's in the concentric in this capture. And BTW, no. The spotter isn't helping what so ever. Even though we have 3 spotters and safety bars I require that the spotters stay close. These are still kids.

Okay, this pic is what I wanted.  It is enough for me to say I was a dumbass.  I apologize, I was wrong.  This is deep enough for me to say legit.

[Coach is Back!]

Not only are you irresponsible you are also quite a nasty person. Congratulations.

Vince I get nasty with you because you do the exact same thing in your little condescending way because as you put it "my word is Gold" which is about as pompous as you can get. You're not nearly the most knowledgeable on here and neither am I but I'm VERY VERY well read so if I post something on here training wise I make sure I'm not talking out of my ass. That being said, pay attention to my rebuttal posts.   

[SuperTed]

His son has been progressing up to this.  He's posted video of the progression, so it's all being done safely and controlled.

Fair enough. I wasn't sure since this was the first I had seen.

Also, why do you think controlled 315 ATG is safer than a controlled 480 lb box?

Pushing a max weight is always going to be more hazardous than pushing weight that you can manage for a few reps. Form tends to worsen as the weight increases.

[RJ DRIVER]

So how many ex wives has your kid racked up so far? Keeping pace with dad 

[bears]

Actually you just posted that you did 315 x 31. Even 315 x 15 would put you at around a 515 1RM. 31 would be like what? Close to 700-750 or more?

I've hit 315x15 below parallel with no belt. best squat is 475 with belt.  so it varies.

[Coach is Back!]

Good point but this is the thing for me, most of these kids who do ego lifting don’t have any guidance so assume what they are doing is safe, or at least aren’t thinking about the hazards.
However, considering these kids that are being trained by Joe they have the luxury of an experienced mentor helping them, he should be warning them the dangers of lifting beyond their capabilities.

You seem like a knowledgeable dude. Do you think doing a 500lb box squat is significantly more beneficial towards athletic performance than doing a few controlled ATG squats with 315lbs? Bear in mind we aren’t talking about advanced lifters but inexperienced teens.

I actually get the idea that Coach encourages the heavy lifting more because he enjoys the whole “macho” image that lifting big amounts of weight has rather than seeing any real advantage in it.

One thing we don't encourage is ego lifts. This is how athletes and people in general get injured. Like I said in past posts, I love the box squat for various reasons but the main reason is posterior chain development and power and this is why absolute strength is HUGE in my programs. That being said we about mid-May we raise our power rep-range from 3-1 to 5-3 and drop the percentages to 75-90%. We never have our athletes or anyone for that matter do anything if their head isn't into it that day. When a football season ends usually in November pending playoffs, they usually take a few weeks off from doing nothing. When they get back, we begin our accumulation phase for 4 weeks then we start right into our conguate systems. Inexperienced and incoming freshmen that have never lifted begin with bodyweight training and especially no loads on the spine, if a load is used we will goblet squat and learn to box squat. This teaches proper depth and form as they work into loads and proper squat technique when they have to go into a school with some dumb ass coach that overloads the kid with a weight he's not capable of handling then accepts anything as a "squat".

The kids that lift heavier have been with me for at least a couple of years. My son has been training since he was 6-7 using mostly bodyweight until he was 10 and slowly progressed into loads. Never an injury. The key is developing joint integrity and stability.  As far translating to athletic performance? Absolutely! 1. Speed starts in the gym by training power and power is always translates to the field. Forced application (foot contact to the ground) is speed, the stronger the athlete the more power to the run (see Marshawn Lynch). But developing great power and strength is essential for another reason.

If I have a 160lbs HS running back running up the middle into a line that averages 270-280lbs his only real line of defense (if the O-line can't protect) is going to be his power and the ability to take a hit. It helps protect against a collision injury and absorb the hit.   

[MAXX]

half reps of peace

[Coach is Back!]

I have never been impressed with strength coaches or athletic coaches re their knowledge about training. A lot of incompetent people out there.

There are a lot of ways to train biceps but only a few that are effective once you get over a certain size. I doubt NASA could have designed

my machine. Different technology.

I've got news for you Vince. More and more bodybuilders are incorporating actual athletic strength exercises into their programs. Why? Because good strength coaches (especially at the pro and University level) actually research. It's applying the science to the training with actual data to back it.

[SuperTed]

One thing we don't encourage is ego lifts. This is how athletes and people in general get injured. Like I said in past posts, I love the box squat for various reasons but the main reason is posterior chain development and power and this is why absolute strength is HUGE in my programs. That being said we about mid-May we raise our power rep-range from 3-1 to 5-3 and drop the percentages to 75-90%. We never have our athletes or anyone for that matter do anything if their head isn't into it that day. When a football season ends usually in November pending playoffs, they usually take a few weeks off from doing nothing. When they get back, we begin our accumulation phase for 4 weeks then we start right into our conguate systems. Inexperienced and incoming freshmen that have never lifted begin with bodyweight training and especially no loads on the spine, if a load is used we will goblet squat and learn to box squat. This teaches proper depth and form as they work into loads and proper squat technique when they have to go into a school with some dumb ass coach that overloads the kid with a weight he's not capable of handling then accepts anything as a "squat".

The kids that lift heavier have been with me for at least a couple of years. My son has been training since he was 6-7 using mostly bodyweight until he was 10 and slowly progressed into loads. Never an injury. The key is developing joint integrity and stability.  As far translating to athletic performance? Absolutely! 1. Speed starts in the gym by training power and power is always translates to the field. Forced application (foot contact to the ground) is speed, the stronger the athlete the more power to the run (see Marshawn Lynch). But developing great power and strength is essential for another reason.

If I have a 160lbs HS running back running up the middle into a line that averages 270-280lbs his only real line of defense (if the O-line can't protect) is going to be his power and the ability to take a hit. It helps protect against a collision injury and absorb the hit.   

Thanks for the response. Makes sense.

[Nails]

 

[OlympiaGym]

What about hits to the head? Any concern about that

[Coach is Back!]

What about hits to the head? Any concern about that

Always include neck in our training. At least twice a week. In two weeks I'm doing a manual neck clinic for athletes and coaches. 

[Van_Bilderass]

VB, always like your posts.  But here, it only says "more" about his strength because you're bench marking it against a standard that your familiar with.  If you're a trainer who is familiar with the hex bar, you'd be able to interpret what poundages used by that method mean in terms of measuring strength.

Well you're right. Still I kind of feel like the hex bar, just like the box squat, is a way for some
to inflate their numbers. It's a deadlift yet it isn't.

[Grape Ape]

Well you're right. Still I kind of feel like the hex bar, just like the box squat, is a way for some
to inflate their numbers. It's a deadlift yet it isn't.

I get that angle too.  I look at box/hex as ways to improve/compliment traditional lifts, not replace.

BUT, I do feel that the hex is a lot safer, and the more I think about it, maybe should replace the DL (outside of competitive powerlifting, of course).

[residue]

Well you're right. Still I kind of feel like the hex bar, just like the box squat, is a way for some
to inflate their numbers. It's a deadlift yet it isn't.

feel the same way about sumo pullers, that's not a deadlift

[Nails]

feel the same way about sumo pullers, that's not a deadlift

i would say box squatting is more like Rack Pin Deadlifts 

[Grape Ape]

i would say box squatting is more like Rack Pin Deadlifts 

Don't rack pin DLs just shorten the range of motion?   That's not what Box squats do.

[chaos]

Don't rack pin DLs just shorten the range of motion?   That's not what Box squats do.

No

[Grape Ape]

No

Then is the rack pin the DL equivalent of the box squat?